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| #1mxyzplkSep 18, 2007 19:58:14 | So I have been referencing the following classic threads: Mastering the Summoned Monster: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=565674 The 3.5 Summon Monster List: http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-180887 Ready to Summon Monsters: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=221737 Summoner's Guide: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13017329 Mastering the Malconvoker: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=13677754#post13677754 However, none of them have a complete list of legal Summon Monster targets. My DM allows any "real" WotC source (not Dragon or arbitrary substitutions). In MMI-II nothing is listed as being additionally summonable. However, in MMIII-V, Fiend Folio, the Fiendish Codexes,and some other random Wizards sources, there are monsters noted specifically as being summonable with Summon Monster. Since we've reached the end of 3.5 supplements, and this effort covered every book I can get my hands on, I think it won't get out of date. So as a value added service, here's the list of RAW monsters in Wizards books summonable with Summon Monster! Feel free and chime in with others I missed. (Or if there's some rule I'm missing which allows others...) MMII Cervidal Guardinal (IV, NG) - declared summonable in BoED Lupinal Guardinal (VIII, NG) - declared summonable in BoED MMIII Arrow demon (VII, CE, evil caster, replaces babau) Storm elementals - Small (IV, N), Med (VI, N), Large (VII, N), Huge (VIII, N), Greater (IX, N) MMIV Clockwork mender (II, LN) Demon, Nashrou (III, CE) - not listed in the table of contents as a summonable creature, but it is! Dwarf Ancestor (V, LG, cleric of Moradin) Howler Wasp (II, CE) Inferno Spider (VI, N, ritual required) Justice Archon (VII, LG) Windrazor (III, CE) Windscythe (VI, CE) Wrackspawn (IV, CE) Yugoloth, Corruptor of Fate (VI, NE) Yugoloth, Voor (IV, NE) MMV Arcadian Avenger (IV, LG, LG/LN caster) Demon, Adaru (IX, CE, evil caster) Demon, Carnage (IV, CE, evil caster) Demon, Gadacro (IV, CE, evil caster) Demon, Solamith (VII, CE, evil caster) Devil, Gulthir (VI, LE, evil caster) Fetid Fungus (II, N, cleric of Zuggtmoy) Fiend Folio (arguably 3.5e) Aoa Droplet (N, IV) Bacchae (CN, III) Demodand, Farastu (NE, IX) Demon, Skulvyn (CE, IV) Demon, Wastrilith (CE, IX) Deva, Monadic (G, IX) Deva, Movanic (G, VII) Formian, Armadon (LN, VII) Formian, Observer (LN, IX) Formian, Winged Warrior (LN, VI) Imp, Bloodbag (LE, IV) Imp, Euphoric (LE, IV) Imp, Filth (LE, IV) Kaorti (NE, II) Maelephant (LE, VIII) Nerra, Kalareem (N, IV) Nerra, Sillit (N, VI) Nerra, Varoot (N, II) Rilmani, Cuprilach (N, IX) Rilmani, Ferumach (N, VII) Slaad, Mud (CN, VI) Yugoloth, Piscoloth (NE, VII) Yugoloth, Skeroloth (NE, IV) Fiendish Codex II Abishai, White (IV, LE, LE caster, replace fiendish giant wasp) Abishai, black (V, LE, LE caster, replace bearded devil) Abishai, green (VI, LE, LE caster, replace chain devil) Abishai, blue (VII, LE, LE caster, replace bone devil) Amnizu (VI, LE, LE caster, replace xill) Kalabon (III, LE, LE caster, replace fiendish ape) Orthon (VIII, LE, LE caster, replace hellcat) Pain devil (VI, LE, LE caster, replace chain devil) Pleasure devil (Brachina) (IX, LE, LE caster, replace fiendish dire shark) Spined devil (IV, LE, LE caster, replace fiendish giant wasp) Steel devil (VII, LE, LE caster, replace fiendish megaraptor) Book of Exalted Deeds - thanks to BenSan for the ref. Bauriaur (III, CG) Coure Eladrin (III, CG) Musteval Guardinal (III, NG) Rhek (IV, NG) Leskylor (V, NG) Equinal (VI, NG) Asura (VII, CG) Leskylor, three-headed (VII, NG) Hollyphant (VIII, NG) Warden Archon (VIII, CG) Firre Eladrin (IX, CG) Moon Dog (IX, NG) Owl Archon (IX, LG) Quesar (IX, NG) Sword Archon (IX, LG) Ursinal Guardinal (IX, NG) Complete Arcane - thanks to BenSan for the ref. Elemental Grue (IV, NE) - Air, Fire, Earth, or Water. Ghostwalk - thanks to BenSan for the ref. Demon, Artaaglith (VI, CE) Magic of Incarnum - thanks to BenSan for the ref. Souleater (VII, NE, evil caster, replaces Huge fiendish monstrous scorpion) Planar Handbook - thanks to BenSan for the ref. Elementite Swarm (any) (VI, N, replaces Elemental, Large) - 4 kinds. Elsewhale (VIII, NG, replaces celestial cachalot whale) Elysian Thrush (I, NG, replaces celestial owl or celestial monkey) Energon (any) (V, N, replaces Elemental, Medium) - and technically this allows the xeg-ya and xeg-yi from MoP as well for a total of 7. Gaspar (VIII, N, replaces celestial triceratops or Colossal fiendish monstrous centipede) Limbo Stalker (VIII, CN, replaces blue slaad) Nightmare, lesser (IV, NE, replaces fiendish dire wolf or howler) Pack fiend (VII, NE, replaces Huge fiendish monstrous scorpion) Unraveler (IX, LN, replaces green slaad) Ur' Epona (II, N, replaces celestial riding dog) New templates - anarchic, axiomatic, entropic (+1 to spell level), vivacious (+1 to spell level). Races of Stone Hammer archon (VIII, LG, dwarf, gnome, or goliath caster) Sandstorm - thanks to BenSan for the ref. Glass mephit (IV, N) Sulfur mephit (IV, N) Stormwrack - thanks to Nanshork for the ref. Fiendish dire barracuda (V, NE, replaces fiendish dire boar) Fiendish dire eel (IV, CE, replaces fiendish dire wolf) Fiendish montrous diving spider (various, CE, replace other fiendish monstrous spiders) Fiendish sea snake (various, CE, replace other fiendish vipers) Caller from the deeps (VIII, NE, replace Elemental, greater) Yugoloth, Echinoloth (VIII, NE, replace blue slaad) Fiendish monstrous crab, small (I, NE, replace fiendish monstrous scorpion, small) Fiendish monstrous crab, medium (II, NE, replace fiendish monstrous scorpion, medium) Fiendish monstrous crab, large (V, NE, replace fiendish monstrous scorpion, large) Fiendish monstrous crab, huge (VII, NE, replace fiendish monstrous scorpion, huge) Fiendish monstrous crab, gargantuan (IX, NE, replace fiendish monstrous scorpion, gargantuan) Celestial archelon (VIII, NG, replaces celestial triceratops) Fiendish icthyosaur (VI, NE, replaces fiendish rhinoceros) Fiendish mosasour (IX, CE, replaces bebilith) Celestial plesiosaur (IX, NG, replaces celestial roc) I also checked BoD, Draconomicon, the Complete series up through Scoundrel/Mage/Champion, the Races series, DMGII, ExpPsi, Heroes of Battle/Horror, Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, Manual of the Planes, UA - nothing there. A couple rule notes. Most of the MMV, FCII and the arrow demon specify "a evil spellcaster". I'd tend to argue that a malconvoker could as well with Deceptive Summons, it seems a redundant requirement since summoning evil creatures will turn you evil anyway. Also, some of these specify replacing a choice. Many just note "you can summon them." It's unclear whether you have to replace something on your list with the new choices or whether they're just list extensions. Dragon Magazine notwithstanding, I don't see anything in the core rules about the SM lists being limited in size. So welcome to much larger SM lists! By popular request, here's the lists by SM level! Summon Monster Lists By Level Summon Monster I Celestial dog (LG) Celestial owl (LG) or Elysian Thrush (NG, Planar Handbook) Celestial giant fire beetle (NG) Celestial porpoise (NG) Celestial badger (CG) Celestial monkey (CG) or Elysian Thrush (NG, Planar Handbook) Fiendish dire rat (LE) Fiendish raven (LE) Fiendish monstrous centipede, Medium (NE) Fiendish monstrous scorpion, Small (CE) or Fiendish monstrous crab, Small (NE, Stormwrack) Fiendish hawk (CE) Fiendish monstrous spider, Small (CE) or Fiendish monstrous diving spider, Small (CE, Stormwrack) Fiendish octopus (CE) Fiendish snake, Small viper (CE) or Fiendish sea snake, Small (CE, Stormwrack) Summon Monster II Celestial giant bee (LG) Celestial giant bombardier beetle (NG) Celestial riding dog (NG) or Ur'Epona (N, Planar Handbook) Celestial eagle (CG) Clockwork Mender (LN, MMIV) Fetid Fungus (N, cleric of Zuggtmoy only, MMV) Nerra, Varoot (N, Fiend Folio) Devil, Lemure (LE) Fiendish squid (LE) Fiendish wolf (LE) Fiendish monstrous centipede, Large (NE) Fiendish monstrous scorpion, Medium (NE) or Fiendish monstrous crab, Medium (NE, Stormwrack) Fiendish shark, Medium (NE) Kaorti (NE, Fiend Folio) Fiendish monstrous spider, Medium (CE) or Fiendish monstrous diving spider, Medium (CE, Stormwrack) Fiendish snake, Medium viper (CE) or Fiendish sea snake, Medium (CE, Stormwrack) Howler Wasp (CE, MMIV) Summon Monster III Celestial black bear (LG) Celestial bison (NG) Guardinal, Musteval (NG, BoED) Bauriaur (CG, BoED) Celestial dire badger (CG) Celestial hippogriff (CG) Eladrin, Coure (CG, BoED) Elemental, Small (N) Bacchae (CN, Fiend Folio) Fiendish ape (LE) or Kalabon (LE, FCII, LE caster) Fiendish dire weasel (LE) Hell Hound (LE) Fiendish snake, constrictor (LE) Fiendish boar (NE) Fiendish dire bat (NE) Fiendish monstrous centipede, Huge (NE) Demon, Dretch (CE) Demon, Nashrou (CE, MMIV) Fiendish crocodile (CE) Fiendish snake, Large viper (CE) or Fiendish sea snake, Large (CE, Stormwrack) Fiendish wolverine (CE) Windrazor (CE, MMIV) Summon Monster IV Arcadian Avenger (LG, MMV, LG/LN caster) Archon, Lantern (LG) Celestial giant owl (LG) Guardinal, Cervidal (NG, MMII) Rhek (NG, BoED) Celestial giant eagle (CG) Celestial lion (CG) Aoa Droplet (N, Fiend Folio) Storm elemental, Small (N, MMIII) Mephit (N) Mephit, glass (N, Sandstorm) Mephit, sulfur (N, Sandstorm) Nerra, Kalareem (N, Fiend Folio) Fiendish dire wolf (LE) or Fiendish dire eel (CE, Stormwrack) or Nightmare, lesser (NE, Planar Handbook) Fiendish giant wasp (LE) or Spined devil (LE, FCII, LE caster) or Abishai, White (LE, FCII, LE caster) Imp, Bloodbag (LE, Fiend Folio) Imp, Euphoric (LE, Fiend Folio) Imp, Filth (LE, Fiend Folio) Elemental Grue (NE, Complete Arcane) Fiendish giant praying mantis (NE) Fiendish shark, Large (NE) Yeth hound (NE) Yugoloth, Skeroloth (NE, Fiend Folio) Yugoloth, Voor (NE, MMIV) Demon, Carnage (CE, MMV, evil caster) Demon, Gadacro (CE, MMV, evil caster) Demon, Skulvyn (CE, Fiend Folio) Fiendish monstrous spider, Large (CE) or Fiendish monstrous diving spider, Large (CE, Stormwrack) Fiendish snake, Huge viper (CE) or Fiendish sea snake, Huge (CE, Stormwrack) Howler (CE) or Nightmare, lesser (NE, Planar Handbook) Wrackspawn (CE, MMIV) Summon Monster V Archon, Hound (LG) Celestial brown bear (LG) Dwarf Ancestor (LG, MMIV, cleric of Moradin) Celestial giant stag beetle (NG) Celestial sea cat (NG) Leskylor (NG, BoED) Celestial griffon (CG) Elemental, Medium (N) or Energon (any) (N, Planar Handbook/Manual of the Planes) Achaierai (LE) Devil, Bearded (LE) or Abishai, black (LE, FCII, LE caster) Fiendish deionychus (LE) Fiendish dire ape (LE) Fiendish dire boar (NE) or Fiendish dire barracuda (NE, Stormwrack) Fiendish shark, Huge (NE) Fiendish monstrous scorpion, Large (NE) or Fiendish monstrous crab, Large (NE, Stormwrack) Shadow mastiff (NE) Fiendish dire wolverine (CE) Fiendish giant crocodile (CE) Fiendish tiger (CE) Summon Monster VI Celestial polar bear (LG) Celestial orca whale (NG) Equinal (NG, BoED) Eladrin, Bralani (CG) Celestial dire lion (CG) Formian, Winged Warrior (LN, Fiend Folio) Elemental, Large (N) or Elementite Swarm (N, Planar Handbook) Genie, Janni (N) Inferno Spider (N, MMIV, ritual required) Nerra, Sillit (N, Fiend Folio) Storm elemental, Medium (N, MMIII) Chaos beast (CN) Slaad, Mud (CN, Fiend Folio) Devil, Chain (LE) or Abishai, green (LE, FCII, LE caster) or Devil, pain (LE, FCII, LE caster) Devil, Gulthir (LE, MMV, evil caster) Xill (LE) or Amnizu (LE, FCII, LE caster) Fiendish monstrous centipede, Gargantuan (NE) Fiendish rhinoceros (NE) or Fiendish icthyosaur (NE, Stormwrack) Yugoloth, Corruptor of Fate (NE, MMIV) Demon, Artaaglith (CE, Ghostwalk) Fiendish elasmosaurus (CE) Fiendish monstrous spider, Huge (CE) or Fiendish monstrous diving spider, Huge (CE, Stormwrack) Fiendish snake, giant constrictor (CE) Windscythe (CE, MMIV) Summon Monster VII Deva, Movanic (G, Fiend Folio) Archon, Justice (LG, MMIV) Celestial elephant (LG) Guardinal, Avoral (NG) Celestial baleen whale (NG) Leskylor, three-headed (NG, BoED) Asura (CG, BoED) Genie, Djinni (CG) Formian, Armadon (LN, Fiend Folio) Elemental, Huge (N) Invisible stalker (N) Rilmani, Ferumach (N, Fiend Folio) Storm Elemental, Large (N, MMIII) Slaad, red (CN) Devil, Bone (LE) or Abishai, blue (LE, FCII, LE caster) Fiendish megaraptor (LE) or Steel devil (LE, FCII, LE caster) Fiendish monstrous scorpion, Huge (NE) or Souleater (NE, Magic of Incarnum, evil caster) or Pack fiend (NE, Planar Handbook) or Fiendish monstrous crab, Huge (NE, Stormwrack) Yugoloth, Piscoloth (NE, Fiend Folio) Demon, Babau (CE) or Demon, arrow (CE, MMIII, evil caster) Demon, Solamith (CE, MMV, evil caster) Fiendish giant octopus (CE) Fiendish girallon (CE) Summon Monster VIII Celestial dire bear (LG) Hammer archon (LG, Races of Stone, dwarf, gnome, or goliath caster) Celestial cachalot whale (NG) or Elsewhale (NG, Planar Handbook) Celestial triceratops (NG) or Celestial archelon (NG, Stormwrack) or Gaspar (N, Planar Handbook) Hollyphant (NG, BoED) Guardinal, Lupinal (NG, MMII) Lillend (CG) Archon, Warden (CG, BoED) Elemental, greater (N) or Caller from the deeps (NE, Stormwrack) Storm Elemental, Huge (N, MMIII) Slaad, blue (CN) or Limbo Stalker (CN, Planar Handbook) or Yugoloth, Echinoloth (NE, Stormwrack) Fiendish giant squid (LE) Hellcat (LE) or Orthon (LE, FCII, LE caster) Malelephant (LE, Fiend Folio) Fiendish monstrous centipede, Colossal (NE) or Gaspar (N, Planar Handbook) Demon, Vrock (CE) Fiendish dire tiger (CE) Fiendish monstrous spider, Gargantuan (CE) Fiendish tyrannosaurus (CE) Summon Monster IX Deva, Monadic (G, Fiend Folio) Archon, Owl (LG, BoED) Archon, Sword (LG, BoED) Couatl (LG) Guardinal, Leonal (NG) Guardinal, Ursinal (NG, BoED) Moon Dog (NG, BoED) Quesar (NG, BoED) Celestial roc (CG) or Celestial plesiosaur (NG, Stormwrack) Eladrin, Firre (CG, BoED) Formian, Observer (LN, Fiend Folio) Elemental, elder (N) Rilmani, Cuprilach (N, Fiend Folio) Storm Elemental, Greater (N, MMIII) Slaad, green (CN) or Unraveler (LN, Planar Handbook) Devil, Barbed (LE) Demodand, Farastu (NE, Fiend Folio) Fiendish dire shark (NE) or Brachina (LE, FCII, LE caster) Fiendish monstrous scorpion, Gargantuan (NE) or Fiendish monstrous crab, Gargantuan (NE, Stormwrack) Night hag (NE) Demon, Bebilith (CE) or Fiendish mosasaur (CE, Stormwrack) Fiendish monstrous spider, Colossal (CE) Demon, Adaru (CE, MMV, evil caster) Demon, Hezrou (CE) Demon, Wastrilith (CE, Fiend Folio) New templates to replace Celestial or Fiendish - anarchic, axiomatic, entropic (+1 to spell level), vivacious (+1 to spell level), from the Planar Handbook. |
| #2mxyzplkSep 18, 2007 20:07:03 | So now to the commentary. MMIII The arrow demon for the babau is an interesting swap. It's got double the hit points and is a great choice to pour on the arrow damage. However, it doesn't have the babau's spell-likes (dispel magic most notably). The CR is one higher as well. The storm elementals have a 1 CR edge on air elementals. You get some zappies but they don't have the air elementals' Flyby Attack. Seems like a similar "do I want melee or ranged" trade to the arrow/babau demon swap, but you don't have to replace on the list so you get to choose at cast time. MMIV Clockwork Mender. Generally sucks, but has construct immunities if you need a Tiny flying scout to go somewhere that would normally kill the living. Nashrou Demons get 4 attacks and have DR, and more hit points/better saves than the Celestial Bison. Thumbs up, especially as a Malconvoker! Dwarf Ancestors are only summonable by clerics of Moradin, but they're nice - quite the tank for SM V, with AC 26 and DR 10/adamantine. They won't do as much damage as some of the standard options. Howler Wasps are kinda like a Celestial Bee, but they get 3 attacks or two plus poison, and don't frickin' die if they sting someone. And nothing else is evil and flies for SMII. Their poison is better (d6 DEX) and to hit is better than the fiendish scorpions. If you summon multiples, when they die they even splooge their target with wasp-buffing. Totally take 'em. They lack the fiendish/celestial traits though so they're fragile to energy. Inferno Spiders lack the SR and resistances of the huge fiendish monstrous spider, and have half the DR. Also, you have to do some 2-day 100 gp ritual before summoning them (each time or the first time is unclear). On the plus side, they have twice the hit points, elemental traits, and can flame up the place. Justice Archons suck compared to avorals from what I can tell. They're like hound archons (SM V) with 2 more HD as a SM VII. Windblades (Windrazors, Windscythes) - the Windrazors blow (1 HD), but as a scout may be good since they're intelligent, rare in a SM III. Otherwise they're like the bat but with lots less HD. Windscythes - boy I'm confused. They're CR4 and in the same SM VI band as the chain devil (CR 9). I give them a big "bah". Wrackspawn are pretty comparable to the fiendish dire wolf, but their spear that does an additional 2d6 plus sicken to living creatures is nice. Use 'em on the living! Then we have the two yugoloths. The corruptors of fate are nice! Well, naughty technically. But their special Confusion-like ability (50% chance of the subject taking no action) and its unluck (roll twice to hit it and take the worst roll) makes it a very strong candidate for chain devil replacement. And the Voors get six attacks! Two goo-encrusted thumbs up. MMV The Arcadian Avenger. A CR 6 for a SM IV. 8 HD double swording rending flying beast!!! You have to be lawful and non-evil to summon one but damn boy!!! They don't have DR but they have double the hp of the other choices. Now - demontime. (hum "hammertime" as you read this.) You have to be evil to summon these. Adarus. SM IX, are they worth it? Well, they're pretty good. 3 Charm Monsters (for their duration at least) and SR 18. I'd say better than the bebilith but not as good as the barbed devil. I'd put them even with the Hezrou, depending on whether you need more raw hurt or those Charm Monsters. Carnage demons - a sexxxy name of course, but they're CR 4 SM IVs. They have a chance to rampage and just kill things (it's unclear whether the control that Summon Monster provides supersedes this). At SM IV fiendish dire wolf would eat one. But it can bypass "metal" DR (cold iron, adamantine, etc) and they get bonuses the more of them there are, so maybe a crowd of them to crunch up a construct would be worthwhile. Gadacro - CR 3 SM IVs. Not great except for their specials - they can earthbind a flying creature, poof away after getting hit (so practically immune to full attacks), and can blind people if they can sneak attack them, which with multiple ones should be easy. Very good for specific combats. Solamith - like fat ol' vrocks except when they hit themselves (or are hit) they can do "soulfire" damage (half fire half untyped) in various blasts. Not awfully impressive but it has fast healing so if it's in a protected position it can dole out 24 points a shot in 20' bursts up to 100' away for a good while. Don't use on anything resistant to fire. One devil, the gulthir. CR 6, SM VI. It eats evil outsiders and gets stronger! And eats Medium or smaller creatures and pukes them out Dominated (no save!). Use against small-ish things with low grapple checks, especially evil outsiders! It has 5 ray of enfeeblements to use to soften up potential chimichangas of Satan. The fetid fungus is summonable by clerics of Zuggtmoy only, which restricts its utility substantially. Sickens and envelops, but has 12 hit points. Next. |
| #3tsuyoshikentsuSep 18, 2007 20:25:43 | The storm elementals have a 1 CR edge on air elementals. You get some zappies but they don't have the air elementals' Flyby Attack. Seems like a similar "do I want melee or ranged" trade to the arrow/babau demon swap. Generally, since it's not a replacement effect to get it on the list, you'd use air when the enemy has no ranged alternative and the storm otherwise. |
| #4nanshorkSep 18, 2007 20:37:43 | Nice resource, although it would help to also have a list by summon monster spell. |
| #5zombiegleemaxSep 18, 2007 20:41:56 | http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=918792 My players found it very helpful. |
| #6Treantmonklvl20Sep 18, 2007 21:16:10 | http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=918792 Thank you for linking my page - though I will warn I also did not include MMIII, IV or V on my lists (as I do not own the books) I would be happy to add any of these critters to my lists - but obviously I require alot more info regarding each. -Treantmonk |
| #7bensanSep 19, 2007 0:35:13 | I threw together a list like this a while back, although I didn't have MMV yet at the time and I didn't get around to reviewing them. So here are some you missed. All the "highlights" are off the top of my head and may be incomplete. Book of Exalted Deeds: There's a pile here, but it's easy to miss because they're all listed together in a sidebar on the second to last page of the book. SMIII: Bariaur, Coure Eladrin, Musteval Guardinal SMIV: Cervidal Guardinal, Rhek SMV: Leskylor SMVI: Equinal SMVII: Asura, three-headed leskylor SMVIII: Hollyphant, lupinal guardinal, warden archon SMIX: Firre eladrin, moon dog, owl archon, quesar, sword archon, ursinal guardinal Highlights: Lots of these guys get cleric spellcasting. Hollyphants can Raise Dead as a spell-like, and firre eladrin have bardic music. There are a bunch of oddball unique abilities in the pile, too, and none of them require substitution. Complete Arcane: Just one (well, four in one) and it's not that great, but for completeness's sake. SMIV: Elemental grue Highlights: Air grues are probably the earliest naturally-invisible thing you can summon. Earth grues have sneak attack and I think earth glide, which is a potentially useful combination. Ghostwalk: 3.0 and a weird settingbook to boot, but potentially useful if your DM allows it. SMVI: Artaaglith (demon) Highlights: It has fifth-level cleric casting and more importantly has Animate Dead as a spell-like ability - good moneysaver if you have some way of taking control once it vanishes. Magic of Incarnum: Just one, I don't remember anything about it and don't care enough to look it up right now. SMVII: Souleater Planar Handbook: Lots here, but they're all substitution. It also includes four new templates to replace Celestial or Fiendish with. Of note is that while you can't swap out a template you're forbidden to summon, you're allowed to swap one you wouldn't want to summon but are allowed to, so a malconvoker might want to get fancy by replacing some of the celestial critters with more interesting stuff and then replacing the celestial template on his list with Vivacious for healing purposes. SMI: Elysian thrush (replaces celestial owl or monkey) SMII: Ur'Epona (replaces celestial riding dog) SMIV: Lesser nightmare (replaces fiendish dire wolf or howler) SMV: Energon (replaces medium elemental) SMVI: Elementite swarm (replaces large elemental) SMVII: Pack fiend (replaces Huge fiendish scorpion) SMVIII: Elsewhale (replaces celestial cachalot whale), Gaspar (replaces celestial triceratops or Colossal fiendish centipede), Limbo stalker (replaces blue slaad) SMIX: Unraveler (replaces green slaad) Anarchic, axiomatic, entropic, vivacious can replace celestial/fiendish Sandstorm: Okay, this one's a little weird: Nothing here is listed as viable for Summon Monster, but the PHB list includes "Mephit (any)" and there are two new mephits in this book. So.. yeah, new stuff to summon. I don't remember what they actually do, though. SMIV: Glass mephit, sulfur mephit Stormwrack: There are a bunch of new animals in this book, and celestial and fiendish versions on the SM lists. I didn't bother to note them down because the thread I made this list for was about unusual abilities and templated animals don't have much in the way of that, but if you want a celestial parrot this is the place to look. Also: SMVIII: Caller from the deeps (replaces greater elemental), echinoloth (yugoloth) (replaces blue slaad) |
| #8nanshorkSep 19, 2007 1:31:15 | Another useful link here. |
| #9nanshorkSep 19, 2007 1:48:26 | Also, another list. Stormwrack Fiendish Dire Barracuda (NE): Summon Monster V; replaces fiendish dire boar Fiendish Dire Eel (CE): Summon Monster IV; replaces dire wolf Caller from the Deeps (NE): Summon Monster VIII; replaces greater elemental(any) Fiendish Monstrous Diving Spider (CE): various; replaces fiendish monstrous spider Fiendish Sea Snake (CE): various; replaces fiendish viper Echinoloth (NE): Summon Monster VIII; replaces blue slaad Fiendish monstrous crab, Small (NE): Summon Monster I; replaces fiendish monstrous scorpion, Small Fiendish monstrous crab, Medium (NE): Summon Monster II; replaces fiendish monstrous scorpion, Medium Fiendish monstrous crab, Large (NE): Summon Monster V; replaces fiendish monstrous scorpion, Large Fiendish monstrous crab, Huge (NE): Summon Monster VII; replaces fiendish monstrous scorpion, Huge Fiendish monstrous crab, Gargantuan (NE): Summon Monster IX; replaces fiendish monstrous scorpion, Gargantuan Celestial archelon (NG): Summon Monster VIII; replaces celestial triceratops Fiendish ichthyosaur (NE): Summon Monster VI; replaces fiendish rhinoceros Fiendish mosasaur (CE): Summon Monster IX; replaces bebilith Celestial plesiosaur (NG): Summon Monster IX; replaces celestial roc |
| #10mxyzplkSep 19, 2007 10:56:05 | Thanks for the additions all! I'll incorporate them as I get time! (I'm going to be out of the country from the 20th-29th so I may "go quiet" but I'm interested in finally getting one super-comprehensive list!) |
| #11mxyzplkOct 06, 2007 9:32:33 | I'm back in country and will get everyone's input incorporated! Thanks all for pitching in. OK, I have added everything I could find - that's all the summonable critters as far as I know, anyone knowing better please speak up. I'll move ahead with reviews and do lists organized by level etc. |
| #12ValantheOct 08, 2007 17:44:07 | Great work, let me know if there's anything I could do to help. |
| #13mxyzplkOct 08, 2007 23:14:56 | Thanks! Fact checking is always welcome, I keep finding small errors I've made... And if I've missed any monsters anywhere. Plus, I'm doing my review/opinion of the new monsters per level but I'd love to see other people's views as well! |
| #14mxyzplkOct 09, 2007 22:13:46 | Whew! I have half the Summon Monster lists by level done, and it's clear there was no master plan at work! Some levels have barely any additions and some have their list more than doubled (SM IV, I'm looking at you!) And they managed to not fill in all the alignments even with that. |
| #15nanshorkOct 09, 2007 22:18:39 | Whew! I have half the Summon Monster lists by level done, and it's clear there was no master plan at work! Some levels have barely any additions and some have their list more than doubled (SM IV, I'm looking at you!) And they managed to not fill in all the alignments even with that. Nice to see my suggestion is being put into application. :D |
| #16Treantmonklvl20Oct 09, 2007 23:13:17 | This has evolved from a list into some really great work. I'm going to be referencing/linking it in my thread (since I've only dealt with core summons). Hopefully you don't mind. |
| #17summoning_handbookOct 10, 2007 5:13:40 | A link to this has been placed in the Summoning Handbook. Feel free to pop in and have a look. |
| #18mxyzplkOct 10, 2007 8:05:14 | Sure, link away! With the state of the search on the Wizards board, it's the only way anyone other than me is gonna get any use out of it ![]() Thanks, mxyzplk |
| #19mxyzplkOct 10, 2007 23:33:24 | Whew! OK, got all the lists done. Now on with the reviews! Fiend Folio: Aoa Droplets have one specific use - reflecting spells. They have SR 22 that reflects spells back on the caster. Now, no one in their right mind would target one but it makes you immune to area affects. And, it Dispel Magics with its slam. So summon vs. casters. Bacchae can lay down 3 Tasha's and 3 charms and 1 emotion. A good set of spell-likes for SMIII! Farastu, or Tarry, Demodands are a hard compare to the Bebilith or Hezrou. They have a lot fewer hit points, they have a good Grapple but not as good as the bebilith. And their spell-likes are all low level (dispel magic, invisibility, fear, etc) as opposed to, say, blasphemy (hezrou). Seem to me if you want melee you go bebilith and want spell-likes you go hezrou, and if you can toss a 9th level spell you don't need level 1-3 spell-likes. Skulvyns seem like you'd pick them as an aquatic replacement for the howler. Their slow aura is only Will DC12 and is unlikely to affect anything at SMIV levels. Wastriliths. Danger! They get an opposed Wis check to break free and attack the caster. Of course, they only have a 12 WIS. In return, you get a whole mess of spell-likes, including any symbol. This is the ticket, but you run the risk of that WIS check - even if you have a 20 WIS you still have a 30% chance of failing it. Now the Devas. The Monadic deva is a way for a Wizard to cast Raise Dead (though for a L9 spell, Wish should do the same). Lots of other clerical spell-likes. Not as much raw ass-kick as the demons in SM IX, but if you need an entire party de-poisoned, de-diseased,one person raised, etc. it's a good choice - although the movanic can do most of that too at SM VII. Formians. The Armadon is a poisonous acidic melee machine. It's weaker than a celestial elephant but gets 4 attacks/round and if you think your targets will fail the DC 18 poison saves it could be good. The Observer sucks on ice. SMIX!?! CR11? I want to kill some of these with my level 5 PC for the XP. Winged warriors similarly are over-CRed. A Large air elemental would crunch it to mush. |
| #20bensanOct 11, 2007 0:26:41 | The Monadic deva is a way for a Wizard to cast Raise Dead (though for a L9 spell, Wish should do the same). The Hollyphant (BoED) also does this, and is summoned with SMVIII. |
| #21ValantheOct 11, 2007 11:47:18 | In the Fiend Folio, you didn't discuss the Nerra, Varoot. You probably dismissed it at first, like I did. 1 hit die and no con bonus from an SM II? Okay attack bonus, okay AC, no special move? Bleh. But reading further, this is a real gem in the rough. First off, it's one of the creatures that doesn't use Weapon Finesse, so that means an extra +2 to hit with Augment Summoning. On top of that, the varoot has a whole host of nice abilities. Reflective spell resistance 13, which is not only an amazing ability, but the highest SR available at the level by five. He's got a handful of resistances, solid spell-likes (mirror image 1/day and change self 3/day at CL 12 (no, that's not a typo, he's really a CL 12 caster)), and outsider traits. Sonic vulnerability sucks, but that's hardly every going to matter. He's got a HUGE skill list. +7 bluff, diplomacy, disguise and gather information. +5 intimidate, +6 Listen/Spot, +4 knowledge (any one), +6 sense motive and +6 sleight of hand. The kicker? This guy runs around with a +2 wounding longsword, at level three. With augment summoning, he's got a +5 to hit, and if an opponent ever wants to touch him through mirror image, it's going to be +7 to hit. The kaorti is a lot better than first glance too, and he's solid at first glance. AC 18 and 13 HP is quite solid, but his main attack kind of blows at +4 for 1d4/x4 damage. He's got a solid skill selection as well though, at +5 Concentration, +7 craft (any two), +13 heal, +8 intimidate, +7 know (arcana/planes), +9 spellcraft (+2 for scrolls), +5 survival (+2 on other planes), and +7 UMD. Party magic item activator anyone? However, where he really shines is his spells. Alter self, color spray, feather fall, ray of enfeeblement, reduce, and spider climb, all 1/day. Save of 14+SL at CL 2, which is a really good save for the level(he beats mine). He's also got outside traits and poison immunity to boot. |
| #22mxyzplkOct 11, 2007 19:36:57 | Very good points! I actually ran out of time last night so only got to the "F"s in the Fiend Folio - I'll hit the rest soon! |
| #23ValantheOct 11, 2007 20:27:38 | Well that certainly makes sense. I've only gone through the ones I can currently summon, but this weekend I can go through some more and comment. |
| #24mxyzplkOct 11, 2007 22:05:55 | Fiend Folio Cont'd Imps! Welcome to the SM IV crowd. They can all go invisible and have minor spell-likes. Bloodbag imps, despite their grotesque intent (drink 'em for hit points!) are much better combatants that many other SMIVs like the yeth hound. Euphoric imps have a +9 sting for a DC12 Fort save to be dazed 2d6 rounds. Excellent if it takes but it's unlikely, even with Augment Summoning bumping the DC to a 14, unless you have a specific target you debuff and hit from surprise. Filth imps have stinking cloud and general stinkiness in their favor. In general all three aren't as good raw combatants as the Celestial giant owl, but have specials to make up for it. Good adds to the list. Kaortis look all scary but suck in combat. (Well, not worse than a lemure, but compared to some of the combat-heavy SM IIs.) They have more spell-likes than about any SM II though - color spray, ray of enfeeblement, and reduce most notably. So a very good deal! The maelephant looks all buff but is about 1/3 as tough as a greater elemental at the same level. The spell-likes are really nice though - baleful polymorph and blade barrier. Whether that's worth an 8th level spell is questionable. The neat trick of the nerras is the reflective spell resistance. Kalareem are pretty good fighters for SM IV, with their +2 sword of wounding, mirror image, and reflective SR. They're a little fragile hp-wise but the MI + reflect means many opponents won't be able to hurt them. Sillits get a mislead but aren't as good at SM VI. Summon a mess of kalareem instead. The Varoot are great for SM II, CL 12 mirror image plus reflective SR means fun! Rilmani are nice. The cuprilach are comparable to the barbed devils at IX. They have enervation, poison, and great sneak attack assassination type skills. Send one in after the BBEG a couple rounds before you go in! Ferumach at VII are similarly quite comparable to the bone devils. Mud slaads! What could make slaads better but mud? Hmmm, well, they get one screech for 5d6 sonic damage, otherwise they aren't awesome, they don't fight as well as xill/chain demons/chaos beasts. Annnnd finally the yugoloths. So what do they have to offer besides sparkling personalities and raw beauty? Well, the piscoloths are similar to babau, but get 3 phantasmal killers, in case you have a sea of rogues to kill. So they're OK. Skeroloth kinda suck. But then again, many of the SM IV options seem to suck a little, good thing there's a lot of them. They get 4 attacks but have d4 hit dice, and "cowering" isn't real useful in a summoned monster on a short time fuse. Whew! That's the Fiend Folio! |
| #25mxyzplkOct 12, 2007 19:21:16 | Best Summon Monster I's! So of course you may have restrictions at any given level - alignment being the most common. And some choices (though not really starting at SM I) are good for particular situations. But here's the "best" ones overall. And man, if you're a cleric you probably have such a limited selection... Go mage, mages rule. Woot. So at SM I a lot of the critters are weak combat-wise. Nowadays most starting adventures (Adventure Path type) have opponents even for L1 characters where the damage lots of these do sux. And the celestial/fiendish templates don't get much benefit yet. Also, many of these have Weapon Finesse, which means the to-hit bonus from the STR from Augment Summoning isn't there. Celestial dog (LG) - bite +2, d4+1. Decent combat. Celestial owl (LG) or Elysian Thrush (NG, Planar Handbook) - so these have zero combat potential. The owl is way better as a flying scout with its huge move silently. But the elysian thrush is a total chick magnet. So it's a hard choice. Celestial giant fire beetle (NG) - bite +1, 2d4. One slim margin under the dog unless you need vermin traits. Celestial porpoise (NG) - if you're in the water, duh. slam +4, 2d4. Celestial badger (CG) - gets three attacks. Three sucky attacks. It gets OK when raging but it'd have to survive a shot first and that's unlikely. Celestial monkey (CG) or Elysian Thrush (NG, Planar Handbook) - again, zero combat potential from both. I guess the monkey could apply if you need a nimble scout. But what's more nimble then flying? (aside: -12 grapple? Those monkeys in Costa Rica that kept stealing my food had a hell of a Grapple!) Fiendish dire rat (LE) - bite +4, 1d4. Boo. Fiendish raven (LE) - not as good as the owl or hawk. Fiendish monstrous centipede, Medium (NE) - poison! DC 10, 1d3 Dex. Not so good. Fiendish monstrous scorpion, Small (CE) or Fiendish monstrous crab, Small (NE, Stormwrack) - the scorpion gets sucky attacks and DC 12 1d2 Con poison, and its improved grab is backed up by poor grapple check and damage. The monstrous crab is much better with improved grab and 2d4 constrict. Fiendish hawk (CE) - comparable to the owl, and can arguably fight a little if you've got augment summoning (claw +5, d4-2) Fiendish monstrous spider, Small (CE) or Fiendish monstrous diving spider, Small (CE, Stormwrack) - yay, poison and webs! (Always use the web-spinner not the hunting spider.) So these are good. My L1 summoner kept a quasit under wraps for a bunch of rounds with one. Use the normal one unless you're a merfolk or something froofy like that because the diving spiders can't web. And tremorsense, for combining with fogs! The poison is DC 10 1d3 Str. The only down side is the Weapon Finesse means that STR from Augment Summoning doesn't help with the to-hit. Fiendish octopus (CE) - a decent grappler for... aquatic rogues? Fiendish snake, Small viper (CE) or Fiendish sea snake, Small (CE, Stormwrack) - go for the sea snake, it can be summoned on land and has a +2 to its poison saves. It's slower on land but the other one isn't gonna win any races either, and you can summon them adjacent to opponents. And DC 10 1d6 Con damage! Way the best poison choice. Another Weapon Finesse victim but an Augment Summoning boosts the poison save DC. So in general, you should use: Kill - Fiendish sea snake or Augmented celestial dog if you don't want to rely on poison Grapple - Fiendish spider or crab Scout - Fiendish hawk or Celestial owl Aquatic - Celestial dolphin The rest are fringe cases. For the choices I'd go: Celestial owl or elysian thrush - owl Celestial monkey or elysian thrush - thrush Fiendish scorpion or crab - crab Fiendish spider or diving spider - spider Fiendish viper or sea snake - sea snake Enjoy! |
| #26mxyzplkOct 12, 2007 21:11:28 | Also remember to speak languages your summons can. The D&D FAQ says: Q: Does a celestial or fiendish animal, which has a 3 Intelligence, understand a language? A: The celestial and fiendish templates don’t indicate that the creature gains the ability to understand any particular language, but it’s reasonable for a DM to grant such a creature the rudimentary ability to understand a single spoken language. Celestial (for that template) or Abyssal or Infernal (for the fiendish template) seem like reasonable options, but a DM can alter this as desired. You can even try to talk your DM into Common, because that's RAW from the SRD: Celestial Creature:Abilities Same as the base creature, but Intelligence is at least 3. Reading the Monster Entries:Intelligence A creature can speak all the languages mentioned in its description, plus one additional language per point of Intelligence bonus. Any creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher understands at least one language (Common, unless noted otherwise). |
| #27mxyzplkOct 13, 2007 16:28:26 | Best Summon Monster II's! Similar to the SMIs, you want to choose the crab over the scorpion, spider (web spinner) over diving spider, and sea snake over viper, unless you have special needs. (short bus style special needs!) Now the Ur'Epona versus the riding dog. Well, if you're Medium and plan to use this as a steed, you might pick the Ur'Epona - but that's what Phantom Steed is for, and the riding dog is one of the better combatants in SM II. So you probably want to go riding dog. (For some bizarre reason the Ur'Epona has the best grapple at this level and the most hp. It hurts my brain's cheese gland to think about summoning a horse to grapple someone though. YMMV.) For raw damage dealing, the crab is a great choice - also a very good grappler (right behind the Ur'Epona in grapple and hp). The sea snake (DC 15/1d6 Dex with Augment Summoning) is your best kill-by-poison. The Howler Wasp is a good poison/melee hybrid and gets better when you summon multiples. The Varoot and Kaorti have spiffy spell-likes and you'll get lots of use out of them. Use the Kaorti if you want to debuff opponents with Ray of Enfeeb, Reduce, and Color Spray. Use the Varoot because with reflective SR and CL12 Mirror Image, many opponent configurations won't be able to hurt it for the duration, and it has a +2 wounding weapon (and doesn't use Finesse so your Augment helps its to-hit). The lemure, though not a great combatant, is the only creature at this level with DR. If combined with fast healing from paragnostic apostle or more hit points from master specialist it can probably "go the distance" more than many of the others. For incapacitating opponents, there's the spider's web and the centipede's much improved at this level grapple (+7) and poison combo, depending on whether you think your opponent has a weak grapple or a weak escape artist/strength check. Scouting - hrm, the scouts at this level aren't really much better than the hawk from SMI. Use them instead. If you must, the eagle has a good spot but the clockwork mender has a great Hide and construct immunities. So is the riding dog you summon "trained for war?" If it is, it's better in all respects than the fiendish wolf. If not, it's got better stats but no trip, which is a bummer. Never summon the bee, it dies after one sting. The beetle just isn't up to snuff either - if you need mindlessness there's other better options like the lemure. Note that the alternate options that aren't Fiendish/Celestial don't get the energy resistance 5 or SR, but in many cases at these levels you won't need that. Oh, man, I totally forgot the Fetid Fungus, for all you clerics of Zuggtmoy out there. If you happen to be one, you should take this as it's kinda signature. Not, you know, good. but signature. |
| #28mxyzplkOct 15, 2007 23:39:04 | Best Summon Monster III's OK, the choices begin to ramp up here - there's 27 summonables and only two are a choice - viper vs sea snake, again in favor of the sea snake, not that it matters cause you're not gonna summon it, and ape vs kalabon (more on these later). The good news is you won't be summoning most of them - there's a real split between the better and the worse summons emerging at this level, especially because 3 of them (bison, centipede, ape) cross the magical 4 HD line to get DR from their template. Your real workhorses at this level are the celestial bison and the Huge fiendish monstrous centipede. Both get DR 5/magic, good attacks, and loads of hp. Since they have high HD their SR and smites don't totally suck at this level. And the centipede's grapple is the best of the SM III's. The Nashrou demon is also awesome. It gets 4 attacks, has DR and the most hp. It's vulnerable to crits, but so what? Of more concern is the lack of SR, so use this for melee-fests. For the ape vs kalabon choice, if you are (or can fake being) a LE caster, you might go with the kalabon because it can sicken opponents, but the ape is the best Medium combatant (3 attacks, DR), so if you think you'll be in places you can't plop down the Large/Huge options (constrained dungeons, for example) you might want it. For flyers, you can use the hippogriff (if it's "trained") or the dire bat for emergency mountage. The bat is way more butch. As a scout the Coure Eladrin is without peer. +24 Hide and +16 Move Silently, with tongues, flying and an incorporeal form. You may need some of her spell-likes at times too. And AC 23! So, sadly enough (alignment or language restrictions notwithstanding) you're not gonna use the others much. The dire weasel's CON drain may come in handy but pretty much every single other Celestial/Fiendish is worse than the bison or centipede in all respects. The poison DCs of the snakes aren't competitive at this level. You might summon an earth elemental to pass through stone to scout, but there's no real reason to get any of the elementals otherwise. As for the other outsiders - you could summon the bacchae for kinky sex but that's about it. The musteval guardinal (see invis) and dretch (scare, stinking cloud) have some spell-likes but nothing worth a L3 spell unless you're desperate. Warning - the Sage has ruled that the fiendish boar's ferocity doesn't keep it around when it goes below 0 hp! Meaning it sucks even worse than it otherwise would. Check with your DM, though, many DMs recognize the Sage's rulings as being generally retarded. So, short but sweet! |
| #29mxyzplkOct 19, 2007 20:21:36 | Best Summon Monster IV's OK, so this level is why y'all should be giving me money via PayPal or something. Lordy. There's 49 (yes, 49) summonable creatures at this level. So strap in. Choices at this level - First, you have to choose between the fiendish dire wolf, the lesser nightmare, or fiendish dire eel. The eel is the best aquatic combatant, better than the shark. The wolf is one of the best land combatants and has one great attack plus SR/DR, and the nightmare is also one of the best land combatants with three great attacks and choking/concealing smoke (but no SR/DR). This is a really hard choice. However, another choice is the nightmare vs. the howler, but the howler's good too. I think I'll go nightmare and howler, but if you do a lot of aquatic work you'll want the eel. Next, you have to pick between the Fiendish giant wasp, Spined devil, or White Abishai (the latter two only if you are or can fake being a LE caster). The spined devil is a good scout/ranged combatant and is super fast (120'!). The wasp has pretty decent poison. The abishai gets 4 attacks and has some spell-likes (command, charm person, scare). I'd probably pick abishai, but I think it's a wash. Finally, as usual you should pick the Huge fiendish sea snake over the Huge fiendish viper and the Large fiendish spider over the Large fiendish monstrous diving spider. You must have the arcadian avenger! (If you're LN or LG). It flies and kicks butt with the dual swords (which are a buffing opportunity for you). It doesn't have DR/SR though, but otherwise it's the best flying combatant. The celestial eagle is also good for flying combat, its evasion edging out the owl with otherwise equal stats. The cervinal guardial is a real beauty. Can heal poison, disease, dismiss stuff,and dispel as a 20th level caster! Plus some hold person and suggestion, it's your own summonable cleric. For antimagic choices, the Aoa droplet has reflective SR 22 and a CL 15 dispelling touch, making it nice to have around when fighting mages. The Kalareem Nerra has reflective SR 15 and is otherwise like the SM II Varoot with a couple more HD - I'd be hard pressed not to just summon a wad of varoots though. Here's what you don't want. You don't want the lantern archon (4 hp! please), or the rhek. The storm elemental is worthless, it's basically one 3d6 blast and then that's it. The Fiendish giant praying mantis isn't competitive. Now there's a whole bunch of choices that *might* be good in limited circumstances. The mephits (there's 12 of them) generally suck, but they each have 1-2 spell-likes. They're generally low level spell-likes, though, around L2, so it's a bit of a stretch to swap a L4 spell for them - however, it does provide for huge flexibility. Keep the list handy, and when a glitterdust or heat metal is the difference between victory and a TPK, pull out the right one. It's the same deal with the elemental grues, whose main virtue is jacking spellcasting related to their element. So when Tim the Fire Mage attacks you, whip out a fire grue and take him out. The imps are cute but the DCs on their specials are low - though the wounding curse of the bloodbag and the major image of the euphoric are good. The yeth hound flies and has DR 10. It can't hurt much, but its bay panicks opponents - only a Will DC 11 though so don't use it on clerics or anything. The yugoloths are interesting - you don't want the Skeroloth but the Voor is a heck of a combatant with 6 heavy attacks and SR 15! The demons also range from the useless carnage demon to the cool if complex eyeball-stealing gadacro which is hard to hurt but doesn't do much damage, mainly relying on its high crit chance or sneak attack to activate its blinding ability. The skulvyn has DR 10, a mess of attacks, and a slow aura, making it a solid choice - gotta watch those auras, though, they affect your allies too. Finally, the wrackspawn has a very good chance (Fort DC 18) to sicken and do lots of damage to living opponents with its bone spear. It has no SR so don't use it against mages. |
| #30BalthanonOct 20, 2007 8:41:25 | Whew! I have half the Summon Monster lists by level done, and it's clear there was no master plan at work! Some levels have barely any additions and some have their list more than doubled (SM IV, I'm looking at you!) And they managed to not fill in all the alignments even with that. Another useful addition to this might be to have a list of spells available through the Summon Monster spell-- particularly noting any that are available at a lower level than they might otherwise be. I was putting together a summon monster document for myself awhile back and that was one of the pieces that I was planning on doing but never got around to myself. |
| #31Treantmonklvl20Oct 20, 2007 9:01:16 | Another useful addition to this might be to have a list of spells available through the Summon Monster spell-- particularly noting any that are available at a lower level than they might otherwise be. I was putting together a summon monster document for myself awhile back and that was one of the pieces that I was planning on doing but never got around to myself. I did that already on the Master the Malconvoker thread. At the end of each summon monster spell - click on SLA's available for the complete list. |
| #32BalthanonOct 20, 2007 9:59:53 | I did that already on the Master the Malconvoker thread. At the end of each summon monster spell - click on SLA's available for the complete list. The additions here would expand on that a bit presumably though, with that as a base. (Incidentally, why didn't you put those in an SBLOCK on the main page instead of linking to a separate post? It would consolidate things a bit without expanding the section too much.) |
| #33Treantmonklvl20Oct 20, 2007 11:17:18 | I keep adding more stuff - the posts were getting nasty to edit - linking stuff made it easier for me. The SLA's for non-core summons would be useful though. |
| #34bfigginsOct 23, 2007 16:51:47 | For summoner builds, it'd also be helpful to list other Summonable monsters by level - such as Summon Undead or Summon Dustform Creature. |
| #35mxyzplkOct 30, 2007 20:09:58 | For summoner builds, it'd also be helpful to list other Summonable monsters by level - such as Summon Undead or Summon Dustform Creature. Feel free and chip in there slick! |
| #36mxyzplkOct 31, 2007 23:24:21 | All righty! I'm still working away, it just takes a while. So... Best Summon Monster V's You have 32 options at this level. Unfortunately, most of them kinda suck - by this level they don't really match up as pure combat opponents with the kinds of critters you'll be fighting - you have to be a Wiz9 to cast this and you get something CR 5-ey. CR1 at level 1 isn't so bad, but this begins to stretch it. You really need some spell-likes to be worthwhile and this level's short on them for some reason. In many cases you may consider multiple IVs instead of the Vs. So, the good stuff! Well, your best guys have a save-or-effectively-die power. The Black Abishai can Wrack an opponent - DC 16 Fort save or be totally helpless. Just one of 'em. You have to be LE or fake it to conjure them though. Good SR and DR both and their attacks are OK after their one shot of Wrack (4 attacks, too, good for Mirror Images). The DC is Cha-based (I believe, it's not explicit so it took some figurin' on my part) so boost it before it Wracks for best effect. The Achaierai similarly can spew a cloud of insanity mist, Fort DC 15. It's got no DR but very good SR. Got a hell of a bite too, does 4d6+2. All seven of the the energons are nice because they are incorporeal and have 4 incorporeal touch attacks that do hellacious damage - 1d6 + 2d6 energy. There's all different sorts so you can pick sonic, fire, positive, negative, etc. for the event. No SR but they can dish out the hurt with unprecedented speed. The xag-ya/xeg-yi are a little differently written up; instead of the +2d6 on every attack they do 2d8+5 damage only 5 times a day (or healing for the xag-ya, so if you need a quick 10d8+25 healing it can do it). All the rest are meat-lumps of one variety or another. If you happen to be a cleric of Moradin, the Dwarf Ancestor has DR 10/adamantine and more hit points than any other SMV, but no SR. The Hound Archon has DR 10 and good SR, and good attacks - with a sword you can buff, and some minorly helpful spell-likes (circle vs evil, aid). The Leskylor has a load of spell-likes, mostly not too helpful. A breath weapon and OK attacks, but no SR or DR. It does have the "touch of golden ice" feat, which is a BoED special that makes its natural attacks do 1d6 Dex damage to evil folks. The hitch is that it's a mighty low DC 14 Fort save to resist. But, it does get a lot of attacks (plus improved grab/rake) so if you send it after a foe that's not maxed with AC and Forst save you may get good results. The bearded devil wounds with its attacks and has good SR and decent DR. The rest are a largely undistinct mass of celestial/fiendish junk - the fiendish croc's good, a good attack and high grapple. Good on land and in water. The shadow mastiff has a bay attack to panic opponent but it's only Will save DC 13. No DR or SR. If you need to take out a big crowd of orcs, there's other ways to do it with a L5 spell. The elementals really blow, way underpowered at this level. Warning - the Sage has ruled that the fiendish dire boar's ferocity doesn't keep it around when it goes below 0 hp! Meaning it sucks even worse than it otherwise would. Check with your DM, though, many DMs recognize the Sage's rulings as being generally retarded. That's about it... Of course, part of being a summoner is knowing all your creatures and pulling out just the right one for the weakness of the foe you're facing. So know even the "weak" choices because there'll be that one time they're the perfect fit. |
| #37snizorNov 01, 2007 2:25:34 | You have the Brachina listed under FCII; however, I can't find it in the ToC or the Appendix. |
| #38mxyzplkNov 01, 2007 7:08:55 | You have the Brachina listed under FCII; however, I can't find it in the ToC or the Appendix. Oh, sorry, that's the "devil" name for the Pleasure Devil, p.134. I'll note the other name in the listing. |
| #39snizorNov 01, 2007 10:36:10 | Oh, sorry, that's the "devil" name for the Pleasure Devil, p.134. I'll note the other name in the listing. Thanks! This thread makes me want to play a LE Archivist summoner. BTW, I'm beginning to update Treantmonklvl20's SLA list. Will post when I'm done. |
| #40mxyzplkNov 01, 2007 17:20:54 | Thanks! This thread makes me want to play a LE Archivist summoner. Cool! Yeah, I got inspired to do this cause I'm playing a summoner in my group's new Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path campaign. LG summoner that goes malconvoker to do the evil summons. |
| #41snizorNov 03, 2007 18:53:49 | Well, Here's the partially completed SLA list. Have added: MM4, MM5, the Kaorti and Varoot, and Fiendish Codex 2Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/day) Summon Monster 2: Alter Self* – (2nd)(Kaorti)(2/NA)(1) Color Stray – (1st)(Kaorti)(2/15)(1) Ray of Enfeeblement – (1st)(Kaorti)(2)(1) Feather Fall* – (1st)(Kaorti)(2)(1) Reduce Person – (Kaorti)(2)(1) Spider Climb – (Kaorti)(2)(1) Mirror Image* (2nd)(Varoot)(12)(1) Disguise Self* (1st)(Varoot)(12)(3) Summon Monster 3: Charm Person - (1st)(Bacchae)(7/12)(3/day) Scare – (3rd)(Dretch)(2/12)(1/x) Stinking Cloud- (2nd)(Dretch)(2/13)(1) Tasha's Hideous Laughter - (2nd)(Bacchae)(7/13)(3/day) Summon Monster 4: Aid-(2nd)(Lantern Archon)(3/x)(at will) Blur*-(2nd)(Air Mephit)(6/x)(1) Blur*-(2nd)(Dust Mephit)(6/x)(1) Blur*-(2nd)(Steam Mephit)(3/x)(1) Charm Person – (1st)(White Abishai)(5/12)(1/day) Chill Metal-(2nd)(Ice Mephit)(6/14)(1) Command – (1st)(White Abishai)(5/12)(3/day) Continual Flame-(2nd)(Lantern Archon)(3/x)(at will) Detect Evil*-(1st)(Lantern Archon)(3/x)(at will) Detect Magic* - (0)(Aoa Droplet)(15/NA)(at will) Disguise Self* - (1st)(White Abishai)(5/NA)(3/day) Disguise Self* - (1st)(Spined Devil)(5/NA)(3/day) Earthbind – (2nd)(Gadacro)(4/13)(1/day) Glitterdust-(2nd)(Salt Mephit)(3/14)(1) Gust of wind-(2nd)(Air Mephit)(6/14)(1) Heat Metal-(2nd)(Fire Mephit)(6/14)(1) Magic Circle Against Evil*-(3rd)(Lantern Archon)(1/x)(always on) Magic Missile-(1st)(Ice Mephit)(3/x)(1) Melf’s Acid Arrow-(2nd)(Ooze Mephit)(3/x)(1) Melf’s Acid Arrow-(2nd)(Water Mephit)(3/x)(1) Mirror Image*-(2nd)(Gadacro)(4/x)(1/day) Produce Flame – (1st)(Spined Devil)(5/NA)(3/day) Pyrotechnics-(2nd)(Magma Elemental)(6/14)(1) Scare – (2nd)(White Abishai)(5/13)(3/day) Scorching ray-(2nd)(Fire Mephit)(3/14)(1) Soften Earth and Stone-(2nd)(Earth Mephit)(6/x)(1) Stinking Cloud-(3rd)(Ooze Mephit)(6/15)(1) Stinking Cloud-(3rd)(Water Mephit)(6/15)(1) Stinking Cloud – (3rd)(Spined Devil)(5/14)(1/day) Tongues*-(3rd)(Lantern Archon)(14/x)(always on) Wind Wall – (3rd)(Dust Mephit)(6/13)(1) Summon Monster 5: Aid-(2nd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will) Charm Person – (1st)(Black Abishai)(5/12)(1/day) Command – (1st)(Black Abishai)(5/12)(3/day) Continual Flame-(2nd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will) Detect Evil*-(1st)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will) Disguise Self* - (1st)(Black Abishai)(5/NA)(3/day) Insanity-(7th)(Achaierai)(16/17)(3)(Reduced range/effect 3 hours) Magic Circle Against Evil*-(3rd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(always on) Message-(0)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will) Scare – (2nd)(Black Abishai)(5/13)(3/day) Suggestion – (3rd)(Black Abishai)(5/14)(1/day) Tounges*-(3rd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(always on) Wrack – (5th)(Black Abishai)(5/16)(1/day) Summon Monster 6: Blur* – (2nd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/x)(at will) Charm Person – (1st)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/13)(at will) Charm Person – (1st)(Green Abishai)(6/13)(3/day) Command – (1st)(Green Abishai)(3/13)(at will) Create food and water – (3rd)(Janni, Genie)(7th/x)(1/day) Cure Moderate Wounds – (2nd)(Pain Devil)(8/NA)(3/day) Cure Serious Wounds – (3rd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/15)(2/day) Disguise Self* - (1st)(Green Abishai)(6/NA)(at will) Gust of Wind – (2nd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/14)(at will) Quickened Fireball – (3rd)(Amnizu)(14/16)(3/day) Invisibility* – (2nd)(Janni, Genie)(12/x)(3/day) Lightning Bolt – (3rd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/15)(2/day) Mirror Image* – (2nd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/x)(at will) Ray of Enfeeblement – (1st)(Gulthir)(6/x)(5/day) Scare – (2nd)(Gulthir)(6/16)(5/day) Scare – (2nd)(Green Abishai)(6/14)(3/day) See Invisibility* – (2nd)(Gulthir)(6/x)(at will) Speak with animals – (1st)(Janni, Genie)(12/x)(3/day) Suggestion – (3rd)(Green Abishai)(6/15)(1/day) Vampiric Touch – (3rd)(Pain Devil)(8/NA)(at will) Waves of Grief – (4th)(Pain Devil)(8/15)(3/day) Wind Wall – (3rd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/x)(at will) Wrack – (5th)(Green Abishai)(6/17)(1/day) Summon Monster 7: Aid – (2nd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will) Aid – (2nd)(Justice Archon)(6/x)(at will) Aid - (2nd)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(at will) Atonement - (5th)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(3/day) Bless Weapon - (1st)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(3/day) Blur* - (2nd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will) Charm Person – (1st)(Blue Abishai)(7/13)(at will) Command – (1st)(Blue Abishai)(7/13)(at will) Command – (1st)(Avoral)(8/14)(at will) Consecrate - (2nd)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(at will) Continual Flame - (2nd)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(at will) Continual Flame – (2nd)(Justice Archon)(6/x)(at will) Create Food and Water – (3rd)(Djinn)(20/x)(at will) Create Food and Water - (3rd)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(at will) Create Water – (0)(Djinn)(20/x)(at will) – creates wine instead of water Cure Serious Sounds - (3rd)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(3/day) Darkness – (2nd)(Babau)(7/x)(at will) Daylight - (3rd)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(3/day) Death Ward - (4th)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(at will) Detect Evil* - (1st)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(at will) Detect Evil* (1st)(Justice Archon)(6/x)(at will) Detect magic* – (0)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will) Dimensional Anchor – (4th)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will) Discern Lies* - (3rd)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(at will) Disguse Self* - (1st)(Blue Abishai)(7/NA)(at will) Dispel Magic – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will) Dispel Magic – (3rd)(Babau)(7/x)(at will) Divination* - (4th)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(3/day) Fly – (3rd)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will) Gaseous form* – (3rd)(Djinn)(20/x)(1/day) – duration 1 hour Greater Command – (5th)(Steel Devil)(6/17)(at will) Gust of wind – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/15)(at will) Haste* - (3rd)(Steel Devil)(6/NA)(at will) Hold Person – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/16)(at will) Invisibility* - (2nd)(Djinn)(20/x)(at will) Invisibility* - (2nd)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will) Light – (0)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will) Lightning bolt – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/16)(3/day) Magic Circle Against Evil* – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will) Magic Missile – (1st)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will) Major Creation – (5th)(Djinn)(20/x)(1/day) – vegetable matter is permanent Major Image – (3rd)(Bone Devil)(12/15)(at will) Persistent Image – (5th)(Djinn)(20/17)(1/day) Prayer - (3rd)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(at will) Protection from Arrows - (2nd)(Movanic Deva)(9/NA)(at will) Scare – (2nd)(Blue Abishai)(7/14)(3/day) Scare – (2nd)(Steel Devil)(6/14)(at will) See Invisibility* – (2nd)(Avoral)(8x)(at will) See Invisibility* – (2nd)(Babau)(7x)(at will) Suggestion – (3rd)(Blue Abishai)(7/15)(3/day) True Seeing* - (6th)(Avoral)(14/x)(at will) – 1 full round casting time Wall of Ice – (4th)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will) Wind Walk – (6th)(Djinn)(20/x)(1/day) Wrack – (5th)(Blue Abishai)(7/17)(3/day) Summon Monster 8: Chaos Hammer – (4th)(Blue Slaad)(8/14)(1/day) Charm Person – (1st)(Lillend)(10/15)(1/day) Dancing Lights – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day) Darkness – (2nd)(Lillend)(10/x)(3/day) Daze – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day) Detect Magic* – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day) Hallucinatory Terrain – (4th)(Lillend)(10/18)(3/day) Hold Person – (3rd)(Blue Slaad)(8/13)(at will) Knock – (2nd)(Lillend)(10/x)(3/day) Light – (0)(Lillend)(10/x)(3/day) Lullaby – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day) Mage hand – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day) Mirror Image* – (2nd)(Vrock)(12/x)(at will) Read Magic* – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day) Charm Person– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day) Cure Light Wounds– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day) Heroism – (3rd)(Vrock)(12/x)(1/day) Identify– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day) Sleep– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day) Hold Person– (2nd)(Lillend)(6/16)(up to 3 times/day) Invisibility– (2nd)(Lillend)(6/16)(up to 3 times/day) Passwall – (5th)(Blue Slaad)(8/x)(at will) See Invisibility* – (2nd)(Orthon)(7/NA)(at will Sound Burst – (2nd)(Lillend)(6/16)(up to 3 times/day) Speak with Animals* – (1st)(Lillend)(10/x)(1/day) Speak with plants* – (3rd)(Lillend)(10/x)(1/day) Telekinisis – (5th)(Blue Slaad)(8/15)(at will) Telekinisis – (5th)(Vrock)(12/16)(at will) Summon Monster 9: Aid- (2nd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(at will) Atonement - (5th)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(3/day) Blasphemy-(7th)(Hezrou)(13/21)(3/day) Blasphemy - (7th)(Wastrilith)(15/21)(at will) Chaos Hammer –(4th)(Green Slaad)(9/15)(at will) Chaos Hammer-(4th)(Hezrou)(13/18)(at will) Charm Monster– (4th)(Couatl)(9/17)(up to 4 times/day) Charm Monster – (4th)(Pleasure Devi)(17/23)(at will) Charm Monster(Tanar’ri only)- (4th)(Adaru)(13/18)(3/day) Charm Monster(Elemental only) - (4th)(Monadic Deva)(11/18)(at will) Clairvoyance – (3rd)(Pleasure Devil)(17/NA)(at will) Clairvoyance - (3rd)(Faratsu)(11/NA)(at will) Commune - (5th)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(1/day) Consecrate - (2nd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(at will) Continual Flame - (2nd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(at will) Control Water - (6th)(Wastrilith)(15/NA)(at will) Create Food and Water - (3)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(at will) Cure Critical Wounds-(4th)(Leonal)(10/16)(3/day) Cure Minor Wounds– (0)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 6 times/day) Cure Moderate Wounds– (2)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day) Cure Serious Wounds - (3rd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(3/day) Daylight - (3rd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(3/day) Daze– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day) Death Ward - (4th)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(at will) Deeper Darkness–(3rd)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(3/day) Deeper Darkness - (3rd)(Wastrilith)(15/NA)(at will) Desecrate - (2nd)(Wastrilith)(15/NA)(at will) Detect Chaos* – (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will) Detect Chaos* – (1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will) Detect Evil*– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will) Detect Evil*-(1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will) Detect Evil* - (1st)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(at will) Detect Good*– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will) Detect Good*-(1st)(night hag)(8/x)(at will) Detect Good* - (1st)(Wastrilith)(15/NA)(at will) Detect Law*– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will) Detect Law*-(1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will) Detect Law* - (1st)(Wastrilith)(15/NA)(at will) Detect magic*–(0)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(at will) Detect Magic*-(0)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will) Detect Magic* - (0)(Faratsu)(11/NA)(at will) Detect Thoughts*– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/15)(at will) Detect Thoughts*-(2nd)(Leonal)(10/15)(at will) Detect Thoughts*–(2nd)(Green Slaad)(9/13)(at will) Discern Lies - (3rd)(Monadic Deva)(11/17)(at will) Dispel Evil - (5th)(Monadic Deva)(11/19)(1/day) Dispel Law–(5th)(Green Slaad)(9/16)(3/day) Dispel Magic - (3rd)(Faratsu)(11/NA)(2/day) Dispel Magic - (3rd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(3/day Disrupt Undead– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day) Divination* - (4th)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(3/day) Eagle’s Spendor– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day) Endure Elements– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day) Enthrall – (2nd)(Pleasure Devil)(17/21)(at will) Fear–(4th)(Green Slaad)(9/15)(at will) Fear - (4th)(Faratsu)(11/17)(at will) Fear - (4th)(Wastrilith)(15/18)(at will) Fireball-(3rd)(Leonal)(10/15)(at will) Fireball–(3rd)(Green Slaad)(9/14)(3/day) Fog Cloud - (2nd)(Faratsu)(11/NA)(3/day) Freedom of movement– (4th)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 4 times/day) Freedom of Movement – (4th)(Adaru)(13/x)(at will) Gaseous Form– (3rd)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day) Gaseous Form-(3rd)(Hezrou)(13/x)(3/day) Globe of Invulnerability, lesser*-(4th)(Leonal)(12/x)(always on) Greater DIspel Magic - (6th)(Wastrilith)(15/NA)(at will) Hallow - (5th)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(3/day) Heal-(6th)(Leonal)(10/18)(1/day) Hold Monster-(5th)(Leonal)(10/17)(at will) Hold Monster - (5th)(Monadic Deva)(11/19)(at will) Hold Person-(3rd)(Barbed Devil)(12/16)(at will) Holy Aura - (8th)(Monadic Deva)(11/22)(3/day) Holy Smite - (4th)(Monadic Deva)(11/18)(3/day) Invisibility– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will) Invisibility - (2nd)(Faratsu)(11/NA)(at will) Light– (0)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 6 times/day) Mage Armor– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day) Magic Circle Against Evil– (3rd)(Couatl)(9/16)(up to 7 times/day) Magic Circle Against Evil*-(3rd)(Leonal)(12/x)(always on) – includes +4 to saves and AC Magic Missile-(1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will) Major Image-(2nd)(Barbed Devil)(12/17)(at will) Mirror Image* - (2nd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(at will) Morality Undone – (5th)(Pleasure Devil)(17/24 Neutralize Poison-(4th)(Leonal)(10/x)(3/day) Neutralize Poison - (4th)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(3/day) Obscuring Mist– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day) Order’s Wrath-(4th)(Barbed Devil)(12/18)(1/day) Polymorph – (4th)(Pleasure Devil)(17/NA)(at will) Polymorph*– (4th)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will) Polymorph-(4th)(Leonal)(10/x)(at will) Polymorph*-(4th)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will) Prayer - (3rd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(at will) Produce Flame – (Pleasure Devil)(17/NA)(at will) Protection from Arrows - (2nd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(at will Protection from Chaos– (1st)(Couatl)(9/14)(up to 7 times/day) Protection from Law–(1st)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(at will) Raise Dead - (5th)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(1/day) Ray of Enfeeblement-(1st)(Night hag)(8/NA)(at will) Ray of Enfeeblement - (1st)(Faratsu)(11/NA)(3/day) Ray of Frost– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day) Read Magic*– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day) Read Magic* - (0)(Wastrilith)(15/NA)(at will) Remove Curse - (3rd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(3/day) Remove Disease - (3rd)(Monadic Deva)(11/NA)(3/day) Remove Disease-(3rd)(Leonal)(10/x)(3/day) Remove Fear - (1st)(Monadic Deval)(11/NA)(3/day) Resistance– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day) Scorching Ray– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/15)(up to 7 times/day) Scorching Ray– (2nd)(Barbed Devil)(12/x)(at will) – 2 rays only See Invisibility*–(2nd)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(at will) Shatter–(2nd)(Green Slaad)(9/13)(at will) Silence– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/15)(up to 7 times/day) Sleep-(1st)(Night hag)(8/12)(at will) Suggestion – (3rd)(Pleasure Devil)(17/22)(at will) Suggestion - (3rd)(Wastrilith)(15/17)(at will) Symbol, any - (varies)(Wastrilith)(15/varies)(3/day Telekinesis - (5th)(Wastrilith)(15/19)(at will) Tongues* - (3rd)(Wastrilith)(15/NA)(at will) Tongues - (3rd)(Faratsu)(11/NA)(at will) Trap the Soul – (8th)(Pleasure Devil)(17/Special)(1/day) True Strike– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day) Unhallow - (5th)(Wastrilith)(15/NA)(at will) Unholy Aura - (8th)(Wastrilith)(15/22)(3/day) Unholy Blight - (4th)(Wastrilith)(15/18)(at will) Unholy Blight-(4th)(Barbed Devil)(12/18)(1/day) Unholy Blight-(4th)(Hezrou Demon)(13/18)(at will) Vampiric Touch – (3rd)(Pleasure Devil)(17/NA)(at will) Wall of force-(5th)(Leonal)(10/x)(at will) Wall of Ice - (4th)(Wastrilith)(15/18)(at will Wind Wall– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day) |
| #42mxyzplkNov 03, 2007 20:13:13 | Nice!!! Though a number of them are self only (range personal) by definition that aren't asterisked - seems like it'd be worthwhile to add the asterisks to those just for quick reference (all the alter selfs, mirror images, etc). Oh, also, summoned creatures can't use any of the teleporty type abilities so those should probably be removed. |
| #43snizorNov 03, 2007 20:26:42 | Nice!!! Though a number of them are self only (range personal) by definition that aren't asterisked - seems like it'd be worthwhile to add the asterisks to those just for quick reference (all the alter selfs, mirror images, etc). Done and done. The core SM choices were copied from the Malconvoker thread, which, apparently, only did it for spells that normally were not self-only. Also left certain teleportation/planar travel abilities in. Will try to get the rest of the Fiend Folio added later tonight. Edit: Apparently, that won't happen tonight. Got a couple done though. Currently at the Monadic Deva |
| #44mxyzplkNov 06, 2007 20:53:29 | Oh, hey, another idea for the SLA list - somehow designate the ones that have CON-based DCs because Augment Summoning will boost them... SM VI is coming soon, I promise!!! |
| #45BalthanonNov 06, 2007 21:11:05 | Oh, hey, another idea for the SLA list - somehow designate the ones that have CON-based DCs because Augment Summoning will boost them... For the spell-like abilities, that shouldn't be an issue-- those are almost always dependent on Charisma-- maybe Intelligence or Wisdom in some cases. For Con based abilities, you're looking more towards breath weapons and poisons. |
| #46Treantmonklvl20Nov 06, 2007 22:41:06 | Oh, hey, another idea for the SLA list - somehow designate the ones that have CON-based DCs because Augment Summoning will boost them... The ones cut-and-pasted from my Malconvoker thread have already had DC's adjusted for Augment Summoning. For those without AS - the DC's will be 2 lower (though most SLA's are CHA based) |
| #47snizorNov 06, 2007 22:43:45 | For the spell-like abilities, that shouldn't be an issue-- those are almost always dependent on Charisma-- maybe Intelligence or Wisdom in some cases. For Con based abilities, you're looking more towards breath weapons and poisons. That's my thought as well. I haven't seen any monster that uses Con for SLAs. If I see any, I'll note them though. I'll try to get more of the Fiend Folio done soon (IE tomorrow). Speaking of Summon Monster, I've become a fan of the Vivacious creature replacement option for arcane casters (so that they retain one of the two default tmplates for meatshield summons). Summon Monster 2 can now function as a group Vigor spell for the party due to the positive energy aura. Helpful if you don't have a healer in the party. SM VI is coming soon, I promise!!! Can't wait :D |
| #48bensanDec 20, 2007 14:52:27 | I've been going over this thread (preparation for playing a binder with Zceryll) and I think the leskylor (SMV, Book of Exalted Deeds) deserves a second glance. Although it's not listed among its special attacks or abilities for some reason, the leskylor is listed as having the feat Touch of Golden Ice. This means that whenever one of its natural attacks hits an evil target, the target has to make a DC 14 Fort save or take 1d6 Dex damage. Since the leskylor is a pouncer with rakes, that can add up fast. The DC's not amazing, but hitting with it five times in the first round (and continuing to if its Improved Grab goes off) can make up for it. Plus, even though it works exactly like a poison attack, ravages technically aren't poisons and are not subject to poison immunity. Against nonevil targets I probably wouldn't use the leskylor, but with an evil target it has the potential to be a destroyer. |
| #49bensanDec 21, 2007 4:58:14 | So, I've been thinking some more. Specifically, I've been thinking about energons. They get a cursory look and thumbs-up in the Summon Monster V overview above, but if you're going to take the substitution (and they are way shinier than Medium elementals) they bear a little more thought. See, all energons are not created equal, even though it's not as obvious as elementals. They have different ability scores, different feats (mostly bad), and there's a distinct difference between the 3.0 energons and the 3.5 energons. Normally I wouldn't recommend trying to use 3.0 creatures in a 3.5 game, but the Manual of the Planes (3.0) is specifically referenced as the source for stats on xeg-yi and xag-ya in the 3.5 Planar Handbook, so that's a decent enough grounding for my taste. Out of the 3.5 energons, the xong-yong is probably your workhorse: it's tied for highest attack bonus, second highest AC, and middle-of-the-pack HP, plus its damage is sonic, which is usually everyone's favorite. However, an easy-to-overlook detail is that the xap-yaup (electric) has Combat Reflexes and a decent Dex, so under the right circumstances it can deal plenty of extra damage with AoOs. Unless you're fighting fire-subtype creatures, try to avoid the xor-yost, which has the lowest attack bonus and lowest AC of the 3.5 energons. The 3.0 energons (xag-ya and xeg-yi) work a little differently. They add 2d8+5 damage rather than 2d6 with their energy lashes, but only five times per day. This means they'll deal pretty brutal damage in the first round with their full attack (given an appropriate target, of course), but their output will be kind of crap after that. Since they use positive and negative energy, that'll only apply against undead and living targets respectively. Also note that 10d8+45 points of healing (8d8+40 of it in one round) is not exactly chump change, even for a fifth-level spell - definitely a nice option to have. There is actually one more energon, but it's obscure: the xag-az, a 3.0 psionic weirdo. Like the xag-ya and xeg-yi, its energy lash is 5/day; unlike them, it deals 2d8+6 extra per hit and can choose which of the five basic energies to use. Also, it has at-will Ego Whip, so if your DM lets you use it as-is, once it's done nuking the crap out of its first target it can go around making anything left so ugly it falls into a coma. Technically the Planar Handbook substitution does say "Energon (any)" but in practice trying this guy is likely to get things thrown at you. |
| #50ronyonJan 09, 2008 15:18:52 | Abishai-In Monsters of Faerun, on page 13 they are listed as having both Desecrate and Animate Dead as spell likes. I like them as Planar Bindings for just this reason. I suppose they have lost these abilities in the Fiendish Codex II? If so, are there any remaining summons with Animate Dead? |
| #51bensanJan 10, 2008 5:39:37 | Abishai-In Monsters of Faerun, on page 13 they are listed as having both Desecrate and Animate Dead as spell likes. I like them as Planar Bindings for just this reason. I suppose they have lost these abilities in the Fiendish Codex II? The Artaaglith, from Ghostwalk, has Animate Dead as a spell-like. It is 3.0, but unlike the abishai the original remains the most recent version of the creature. |
| #52mxyzplkJan 14, 2008 20:56:17 | I haven't forgotten the thread, I promise. So I've been playing my summoner, and have just hit my first level of Malconvoker at L7. Here's a bit of "actual play" experience with all these summons. (Actually, the session summaries are on the Web, along with my character sheet at each level, if you want to check them out.) At low level with SMI, the fiendish monstrous spider, fiendish monstrous crab, and fiendish sea snake were winners. Even at this low of a level the SM1s suck as meleers, so the web, grab, and poison are the wins. We went up against a quasit while I was L1 and the spider entangling it helped a lot. With SMII, the Varoot Nerra has gotten a good workout - the Mirror Image and the travel-through-mirrors trick let you do a lot (the whole party is carrying a mirror on their belt so that I can send them reinforcements at a moment's notice). The crab, spider, and snake are still good here but more the crab - the save DCs are too low for usefulness on those abilities. The kaorti's nice too, with color spray and ray of enfeeblement; I had Webbed two ogres that were still a'coming until the kaorti messed them up. I used the howler wasps a couple times but they're easy to kill. Although I guess that's not bad; many summons end up never getting attacked at all, these are intimidating enough that our opponents actually bothered. SMIII - man, the celestial bison. I was alone and caught in a room with four cultists that wanted to kill me. The bison kicked all of their asses. I use the fiendish ape when space is at a premium. All the things with poison etc - the DCs are just too low. I used the celestial hippogriff once when we had a flying opponent so a party fighter could have a mount (and we used it for fast evac when we lost the fight). I'll probably use the coure eladrin next time I need some auto-hit on something incorporeal or otherwise tricky (magic missile - I gave up evocation). I've used the Summon Swarms too, but all these Fort save DCs of 14 or less are basically worthless quickly after the spell's available. Augment Summoning helps a little. I'll report in what I experience with the IVs and Vs soon. Also, I will finish out the higher level summons in the thread - it just takes a while. |
| #53book_hat_dupJan 20, 2008 11:32:04 | This is one of my favorite threads in CO. I look forward to the next update of the OP. If you need any help collecting or collating information, Mxyzplk ...... just yell! |
| #54mxyzplkJan 20, 2008 19:19:28 | Thanks Book Hat! I'm working up VI to post today. Also, I updated my takes on the energons and leskylor thanks to BenSan's input. (Man, that touch of golden ice thing takes some tracking down - in the monster listed as a feat, the feat says "yeah, it does golden ice go see the afflictions chapter", only there does it describe it.) |
| #55mxyzplkJan 20, 2008 22:07:36 | I return! Best Summon Monster VI's This is a good level for SM. There's 35 different critters here, though many are choices. Also, you're going to need to keep an eye on all the resistances and SR here. At these levels (11+), most opponents will have a variety of specials and spell-likes and/or be hell on wheels in combat. Cloud giant (AC 25, +22/+17/+12/4d6+18), stone golem (AC 26, +18/+18/2d10+9), and hezrou (SR 21, chaos hammer and confusion DC 19, reverse gravity DC 22) are common CR 11 combatants. So don't match melee against melee or magic against magic. Either of those two meleers will chop any SMVI up in one round. SRs and saves are also high. So what you have to do is know your enemy (max out those Knowledge skills) and select summons to match their weaknesses. The equinal guardinal has some nice spell-likes. Slow, wall of stone, dispel magic. Its whinny can deafen folks but the save DC is low (16, but 18 if Augmented). Backed up by 10 DR and 18 SR, it's a solid choice. The inferno spider is also really good. Now, it requires a ritual - 2 days research, 100 gp in opal dust - to learn to summon it. But it looks from the writeup like this is a one time requirement. It's got the most hp of any SM VI (119) and a +14 to hit with poison that's DC 21. And fire shield, and a ranged touch web that entangles and flames. Of course if the opponent has fire resistance it's worthless, but if they don't it's hell on wheels. The chaos beast is a one trick pony but it's a nice trick. Its attack requires a DC 15 Fort save (DC 17 if Augmented) or else you melt into goo - you're confused, can't use equipment, and lose 1 Wis/rnd till you become a chaos beast. A DC 15 Cha check lets you retain your shape for a minute, so many opponents may not succumb to it in the short term - but if you can afflict one or two baddies and extract, it'll keep the bad guys unhappy for a while. Although you may end up having to fight a bunch of chaos beasts, so make sure you're using it on something tougher. Need a blocker? The Gargantuan fiendish monstrous centipede is the only celestial/fiendish critter at this level with DR 10, and it has a +27 grapple and poison that's DC 17 for 1d8 Dex, DC 19 if Augmented. An it's 20' square with 15' reach! I call it "Wall of Chitin." The elementite swarms are nice - 2d6 a round plus nauseate saves - and the water swarm has a killer trick of "drown". Anyone in the swarm can't hold their breath and must immediately start to make drowning Con checks - so DC 10 + 1/round and if they fail they die. And the nauseate save DCs are Con-based so Augment gets them up to 15-17. Choose these and leave the normal elementals behind. The amnizu is a great alternate pick. Though the xill has the highest SR in the field, 21, it can't do much. The amnizu has 3 quickened fireballs, is immune to fire, DR 10/SR 18, and has a stupefying touch that is a Will DC 19 or 2d4 Int damage. That's instant death for most dumb critters and a problem for spellcasters. Summon one "behind the lines" and let it touch enemy casters while dropping a fireball per round at ground zero. Truly, as a summoner you want to be LE or Lawful and take Malconvoker to fake the Evil part. The various FCII options are just too nice to pass up. The artaaglith can desecrate, animate dead, and also casts as a full L5 cleric with the evil and undeath domains. So that's 20 HD of zombies, and as much pre-thought as you can put into the spell selection will pay off. You then have a hard choice between the chain devil, pain devil, or green abishai. The abishai has its one save-or-lose Wrack at DC 17 (more if you can buff its Cha), and lots of attacks and other spell-likes. The pain devil is better on pretty much all counts (hp, to hit, damage, DR, spell-likes) than the chain devil *unless* you're able to cart around and distribute 4 chains for the chain devil to animate, in which case it gets like 8 attacks by my reading. The Corruptor of Fate (yugoloth) has a unique trick - attackers have to roll twice for attacks and damage and take the worst result. It also has a curse on touch and a corrupting gaze attack. It's perfect to lay about with the debuffs during a boss fight. The bralani eladrin has its uses - it flies, has good arrow attacks, and can blur, mirror image, and wind wall. So it's a nice option when you can pin down non-flying opponents and whip damage into them - it's hard to hurt. The sillit nerra has the big advantage of the earlier ones- reflective SR 18. Pop it into the midst of the party and reflect all those fireballs, lightning bolts, etc. at the caster. It can mislead and change self to help with that. And mirror image, mirror jump, and shard spray for 5d6 are nice. (My adventuring party each carries a silver mirror on their belt for this reason. Nerra nerra who's got the nerra?) All the rest are forgettable. Except for the centipede all the celestial/fiendish stuff is blah - the elasmosaurus is good in aquatic environments and you have a number of improved grab options (polar bear, dire lion, giant constrictor). And the dire lion has one of the highest melee attack bonuses. The Janni gets the award for the biggest ***** of the lot. Summon it for easy combat practice. The winged warrior formian has some OK ranged attacks with Str damage, but nothing to write home about. The storm elemental still blows (no pun intended) for the same reason its lower CR cousins do. The only reason to summon the mud slaad is to nibble on a prisoner to give them turn-into-a-mud-slaad disease. It might help your Intimidate checks. Or at least be entertaining. |
| #56mxyzplkJan 20, 2008 22:19:42 | By the way, I'm building up a big ol' Excel spreadsheet with all the summon choices in it as I do this. Once it's done I'll make it available as a download off my blog (the link's in my sig). I use it as a quick reference when playing my summoner in game. To do this right you need that and all the monster books on PDF on a laptop, so you can get the full stats ASAP too. If you are bored enough to write up cards with all the full stats for everything, shoot me a copy!!! |
| #57CantripNJan 21, 2008 2:51:10 | Well, I've more or less made full stats for a few summons not long ago. I'll copy-paste them here. [sblock=Summon Monster II:]Vivacious Octopus (Small Outsider, Aquatic, Extraplanar, Incorporeal) HP: 11 (2 HD) Speed: Fly 20' (Perfect), Swim 30' AC: 16, Touch 16, Flat 12 BAB/Grapple: +1/- Attack: Positive Energy Ray +6 ranged touch (1d4 positive, see text) SQ: Fast Healing 5, Limited Spell Resistance (Negative) 17, Positive Energy Aura, Ink cloud, jet, low-light vision Saves: Fort +4, Will +7, Will +1 Abilities: Str |
| #58mxyzplkJan 22, 2008 21:25:06 | Best Summon Monster VIIs This is an interesting level. There appears to be some quality overlap with SM VI, so if you don't need the absolute highest attack bonuses etc. you may want to go with multiple VI's in some cases. Anyway, there's 32 total summons here (you can only get 26 max since some are choices). DR makes a lot of difference - your monsters' range from 0 to 10 - and you need to watch out for opponents with similar DR or the means to bypass it. 10/+1 is a lot unless the opponent has n/+1 DR as well, in which case you'd be better served by summoning something with loads of hit points. Because so many things at this level have DR or magic weapons, that means your celestial/fiendish options pretty much lose their DR a lot of the time. Also, SR is probably the other area where the summons actually surpass your fellow party members in something. They're not going to ahve as high to hit, do as much damage, or have as many spells, but they are spell-resistant. Find ways to leverage that - illusions and whatnot can draw bad magic to something with a high SR that you don't care if it dis anyway. The movanic deva deservers a huge mention here because it can raise dead! As well as remove poison, curses, disease, etc. Finally, an on-call cleric. Unfortunately due to long casting times it can't use its atonement, commune, or divination for you. Sad. Well, that's what Planar Binding is for. The bone devil is also a good one. It's good in combat, sure, with a fear aura and high DC poison, but it can do dimensional anchor (very helpful at these levels - I hate it when the bad guy teleports away), major image, and wall of ice as well. Very solid DR and SR as well. And the elementals are finally good for something. They have the highest to-hit bonus at this level. In fact, the Huge earth elemental, when Augmented, has two slams at +21 to hit for 2d10+11 each! (Careful, air and fire use weapon finesse so don't benefit from Augmentation on the to hit.) If you just need something to go toe to toe it's a good summon; even an adult dragon isn't gonna just ignore one. 5/- DR and hit points in the 170s augmented. They have no SR, however, so may go 'poof' when confronted by casters. Another interesting melee combatant is the ferumach rilmani. It's like a normal fighter (medium, uses gear), which means you probably have a lot of buffing options. It can come in, cast phantom steed, and then use its powerful charge and ride-by attack. And a fear aura. And a 30 AC/20 SR. The piscoloth yugoloth has the carrion crawler action going on - 8 paralyzing tentacle attacks. Each is only Fort DC 16 and, sloppily, they didn't mention what the DC is based on - it's logically Con and so Augmentation could get it to 18 but RAW you're stuck at 16. But just like with the crawler, if you have to make enough saves eventually you fail. You have a couple options for mass distance damage. There's the straightforward arrow demon, which if it uses rapid shot and its symmetric archery tricks at the same time gets 6 arrow attacks (+12/+12/+12/+12/+7/+7) for 2d6+6 each - that's quite some hurt on non-super ACs. You have to pick it or the babau demon, which is an unremarkable combatant but has dispel magic at will, which is useful. The avoral does too though, so you don't lose that by ditching the babau. For ranged attacks vs high ACs, the solamith demon is interesting. It tears off 5-hp chunks of itself and tosses 'em doing basically 4d6 20'r fireballs (half of the damage is untyped, however). It has fast healing 5 so that's sustainable; it can tear off more hp at a time for larger bursts or max damage. And there's a save but it's Ref DC 23. And speaking of the avoral guardinal, it has at-will empowered magic missiles - 4 missiles, (d4+1)*1.5 damage apiece. That's an average of 21 points with very few ways of avoiding it. And it's got some lightning bolts and hold persons to toss in too. It has 10/evil or silver DR and 25 SR. There's almost no reason to ever use the justice archon instead except when its "justice strike" would be perfect. This ability means that when the archon hits it does damage like the opponent's, including specials like level drain or whatnot. That's a real special case though, use the guardinal mostly. And there's no reason to use the asura; one holy smite doesn't merit a whole summon. Now you have one big four-way choice - the huge fiendish monstrous scorpion, the pack fiend, the souleater, and the huge fiendish monstrous crab. Go with the crab. No, seriously. The pack fiend is just a bleh meleer and the souleater, besides a negative level aura that's likely to get your allies, is poor. And the crab has improved grab with a huge grapple check. Grappling is as useful at high levels as it is at low levels (heck, maybe more). Sneak attack! Don't bother with:
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| #59zelck_dupJan 22, 2008 22:09:13 | Whoa, Storm Elementals sucking? Maybe with Summon Monster, but not Summon Nature's Ally. Let's put it this way: with a SNA 8, you get an average of 2 Huge elementals. When they use their Thunder and Lightning abilities together, some poor sod is going to take 48d6 (average: 168) damage, after already taking 16d4 (average: 40) nonlethal damage per round (if your enemies are really stupid/stuck, it might hit more than one!). And they have respectable save DCs, not to mention the more damaging part of it is based on a Ref save which usually isn't as high as the other two saves. We're talking about a Delayed Druidic Meteor Swarm (except the damage is higher than Meteor Swarms, although the lower saves might cancel it out) + 2 warm bodies on the battlefield as an 8th level spell here. 1 round cast time, but cast spontaneously. With SNA 9, you're getting an expected 72d6 (average: 252) damage and 24d4 (average: 60) nonlethal per round. Maybe not so great compared to Shapechange and stuff, and it IS direct damage, but it's certainly respectable, and with those damage values, it's pretty much a save/resist or die. To put things in perspective, a level 20 Barbarian PC with 26 Con has 295 HP. A level 20 Fighter PC with 22 Con has 234 HP. |
| #60mxyzplkJan 22, 2008 23:11:31 | Not sure what SNA vs SM has to do with it - I haven't gotten to SM XIII or IX yet where they do indeed get better. Just as the normal elementals go from suck to rule with SMVII, the storm elementals do a level later. Wait for it... |
| #61zelck_dupJan 22, 2008 23:14:03 | Not sure what SNA vs SM has to do with it - I haven't gotten to SM XIII or IX yet where they do indeed get better. Just as the normal elementals go from suck to rule with SMVII, the storm elementals do a level later. Wait for it... Oh whoops :embarrass |
| #62mxyzplkFeb 24, 2008 9:57:56 | Hi all! Another real play update. My malconvoker's 8th level and about to hit 9th. At this point, it's hard to come up with anything that the SMI's are good for except flanking or pulling AoO's. From the SMIIs, I'm still all about the Varoot Nerras. The mirror image, reflective SR, change self, and mirror teleport means that, once you convince your party members to carry a silver mirror on their belts, you can always send them mirror imaged backup that *looks like them*. When I'm desperate for more ass-kick and down to L2 spells, it's the crab. SMIII is still my bread and butter. Celestial bison, fiendish ape, or centipede are my solid combatants depending on how much spare space I have (M,L,H). Hmm, I've overlooked the Nashrou demon, I need to try it out in-game. The rest are niche plays. I've just gotten to start using SMIV. So far I've really enjoyed the arcadian avenger to spank flying opponents, and the voor yugoloth to spank land-based ones. 71 hp damage in one round to an ogre boss from the Voor! Evokers suck! Also, I used the gadacro demon - we had silenced a covey of hags - and auto blind on sneak attack was verrry useful; flyby means it can almost always get SA. Some of the things I'd like to use I can't really, our main opponents are ogres and giants with obscene Fort saves. Even their bad saves are +6/+7 so these things with "Will save DC 11!" aren't worth summoning. Of course the Aoa droplet and cervinal guardinals have thier niches. But I'm having trouble figuring out anything else to use - the skulvyn has disadvantages over me just casting slow. And no one in the party wanted to suck on a bloodbag imp, but I offered :-) The howler might be good, it's Reflex saves to avoid the quill penalties. And I'll try some celestial lion/fiendish dire wolf, but the Voor kinda puts them to shame. When I hit L10 and get SMV - it's energons! 4 incorporeal attacks is hard to beat esp. against the big brutey types. Wish they were evil, cause when I hit level 11 it's fiendish legion baby! Then it's all bearded devils all the time, I reckon, and the fiendish crocs for grapple - they tie the average stone giant with grapple check, in fact, beat them with augment. |
| #63wire_dupMar 11, 2008 0:15:00 | Any more updates to this list? What a fantastic thread! Thanks Mxyzplk!! |
| #64mxyzplkMar 11, 2008 10:42:45 | Yeah, I've been busy but SM8-9 and more real play updates are on their way! A quick commentary - we're 9th level and fighting stone giants now in the Rise of the Runelords AP. None of my summons can hit the things - their AC is in the 30 range. I was even trying to just have my gadacro demon get their eyes doing flanking flybys with all the plusses/penalties I could get layered on the situation, but it was all miss/miss/miss/miss. |
| #65mxyzplkMay 04, 2008 0:22:00 | Been stalled on SM 8-9 because Planar Binding has gotten my attention and I've done a similar eval of all the Bindable options in the main Mastering the Malconvoker thread. Check it: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=918792&page=14 |
| #66kyton76May 17, 2008 7:02:22 | Any more updates to this list? What a fantastic thread! Thanks Mxyzplk!! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Please, update with SM8&9... (I'm playing my malkonvoker with this 3d suggestions and i'm very... WHOA)![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
| #67ronyonMay 18, 2008 16:23:31 | Yeah, I've been busy but SM8-9 and more real play updates are on their way! I would have thought these circumstances would call for Grappling.Sure the summons might fail the checks vs. but it should help with against the AC. |
| #68mxyzplkJul 10, 2008 23:06:37 | The problem with grappling is unless the critter has improved grab, the critter it attacks is virtually sure to make its AoO and thwart the grapple attempt. |
| #69mxyzplkJul 11, 2008 14:40:35 | Best Summon Monster VIIIs There are a lot fewer options at this level. Only (about) 19, once you’ve made all your choices from the field of about 30. And there’s a lot of choices you have to make; we’ll cover those first. This is a weird level, the Hit Dice of the summons range from 6 to 24! The celestial cachalot whale or the elsewhale. The elsewhere is a better cachalot whale in all respects except for lacking the celestial template’s DR/SR. I’d go with the elsewhale because it can carry your party underwater; there’s many other choices if you need a celestial/fiendish whatnot. The celestial triceratops or the celestial archelon or the gaspar. Also, the gaspar or the colossal fiendish monstrous centipede. OK, the archelon sucks so you can pull that from the decision tree less’n you’re Aquaman. Next you need to ask your DM about the gaspar. It’s just a big deer, except it has an ability to plane shift enemies to the great beyond. But summoned creatures don’t have their planar travel or teleport abilities. Does this count under that restriction? If it can plane shift enemies, it’s good, although the resist is only DC16 Will, and the foe’s gear goes with them (your party might lynch you for this). Even without that it gets seven attacks, though most at low attack bonuses. It packs more punch than the triceratops but much worse defenses (no SR, DR). Make your choice there after your DM rules, but in any event you’re keeping the centipede. Its Colossal size and 24 HD means that it’s one bad ass brick, 29 SR, DC 23 on the poison. And a +42 grapple check if you can sneak it in past the AoO. With Augment Summoning and the malconvoker Fury ability and a ring of mighty summons and a Varisian idol, that means… 360 hp. Who’s your daddy!?! The greater elemental or caller from the deeps. Now, the elemental is really four creatures in one, and they are very good meat-lumps at this level. Loads of hit points, great to-hit, and DR 10/-, and your choice of movement specials. The caller from the deeps has a great CON drain when it’s grappling, but it’s aquatic only and has a pretty low to-hit, so really you’d go with the elementals unless you’re in an aquatic campaign. And they’re big enough now that their vortex/whirlwind powers aren’t just a joke. The blue slaad, limbo stalker, or echinoloth. Uh, none of the above? I guess keep the blue slaad for unlimited passwalls, to annoy your DM in a dungeon environment. The echinoloth has tremorsense but so does the spider, and it has a nauseating aura but with too low of a save DC. As combatants they are all way sub par. The hellcat or orthon. Interesting. Neither is going to kill anything at this level, but the hellcat is naturally invisible and the orthon disrupts dimensional movement. Both have their uses; the hellcat is tactically interesting because it’s invisible even as it’s summoned. The orthon is great as a dimensional anchor substitute – no save! There’s many a time you don’t want that bad guy to teleport/plane shift away. I’d go orthon. The hammer archon is OK, but generally you’d go with the earth elemental instead for combat – it can get you three Walls of Stone, though, if you need them. Of the fiendish/celestial critters, the centipede is awesome as described above. The Gargantuan spider is solid as usual, as tremorsense + web never go out of style against the ubiquitous invisible flying enemies. Even the dinosaurs are decent, with both the tyrannosaurus and the triceratops having their uses. And the tiger is always attractive with its grabs/rakes. I’d summon whichever you’re more in the mood for. Aquatically, the squid or the elsewhale is a tradeoff of alignment and number of attacks vs to hit/damage of one attack. Have you ever said to yourself, “Boy, I wish we had a 6th level bard along!?!” No, neither have I. So don’t summon the lillend. Ever. You’re level 15+ at this point; to you a level 6 bard is a barely passable 1 gp hooker. The vrocks are a little complicated with all their specials. They’re the only evil flier though. The elemental’s got more raw melee power but the vrocks have abilities, and if you’re a malconvoker you get 2 for the price of 1. The malelephant has great DR, a forget-cloud breath weapon that neutralizes casters, and can do 3 baleful polymorphs and blade barriers per day! I like it! Summon, defensive stance, blade barrier, polymorph, polymorph, polymorph, breathe as necessary. The storm elemental finally comes into its own at this level. Its specials weren’t enough to mess with before, but now its free action shock does 8d4 electricity and its one shot thunder/lighting is a total of 24d6 damage! The Large one, one level down at SM VII, is only half of this. I’d go with this over the air elemental most of the time, and especially in boss fights where you need to put maximum damage on target in round 1. BAM! If you are good (sucker!) you have three options from the Book of Exalted Deeds. The warden archon is OK, it’s certainly hard to hurt – AC 30, DR 10, SR 25 and its “shield of the archons” spell will block spells too. So if a true tank will help you, it’s good, though it doesn’t do much damage. The hollyphant is weak; you’d only use if for its couple good spell-likes – raise dead, heal, banishment, flame strike. Though the movanic deva a level down can raise, so really this is for if you need a 30 HD, DC19 Banishment. And if you’re a summoner of this level you probably have one of those memorized. It has some psionics, which always annoys me, and a host of other specials that you probably wouldn’t want to waste a round on. A cute little flying elephant that poos glitter. The mind boggles. If you match up the malelephant with the hollyphant, both SM VIII summons, you get a hollyphant squealing with its violation every time. Anyway, the lupinal guardinal – it’s actually in MMII but it’s the BoED that says it’s summonable – has the distinction of being the only Medium summon at this level. I’ve certainly run into a situation in confined spaces where I can’t summon Large creatures, let alone Huge/Gargantuan/Colossal ones. It’s not all that good but does have both grab and trip. And with the change self, is your best summon to pass as a human/demihuman if you need to be discreet. As a malconvoker, I really need a great reason (specific needed ability) to summon one of the non-evils because Fiendish Legion gives me 2 creatures for 1 summon, so I think I’ll probably be using the malelephant, orthon, and Colossal centipede (when I have room for it!) most of the time. But sometimes the tiger if I need maxed to-hit and the vrock if I need flying. And I think I’ll be tempted to specific non-evil creatures a lot more than in most levels – the storm elementals and greater elementals specifically. And even if you stick to Good creatures there’s some decent picks here. |
| #70mxyzplkJul 13, 2008 22:46:38 | And another "real play" update from my malconvoker in the Rise of the Runelords. In that AP there's a great magic item called "fogcutter lenses" which are magical goggles that let you see through fog spells. For a conjurer, this is soooo great. Anyway, I'm using SMIV and SMV all the time now and have just started using SMVI. Notable lessons learned include: 1. voor yugoloths never go out of style. 2. energons are wonderful. 3. every summon has its use, don't forget about any of them. Even the sucky summons have their place. We jumped a lich and I summoned two amnizus - 2 quickened fireballs then move to flank. He threw up a wall of force to give him time to buff - improved invisibility, fly, etc. So first I send in the (positive energy) energons; the wall of force blocks everything but is only a cylinder so they can phase through the floor. With the 4 attacks they can attack a bunch of squares to find him. Also, I summon a musteval guardinal. It goes invisible and turns on see invisible. The lich drops the wall of force and flies to a random location in the room. The guardinal magic missiles it to "spot" it and the two amnizus pop off two more quickened fireballs. One dead lich. I've never wanted the musteval before or since, but in that circumstance it was the right tool for the job. |
| #71mxyzplkJul 22, 2008 14:25:39 | I also want to put an extra word in for the Amnizus. When I summon (2 at a time with Fiendish Legion, as a standard action from my subst class ability) I get 2 quickened 10d6 fireballs a round for 3 rounds. I've cleared two boss fights with that combo already. It's like personally having 3 quickened twinned fireballs for one level 6 spell. Last game session we were confronted by four cloned (and invisible) wizards. I got initiative. Summon, "Fireball that dais!" *boom* *boom*. Two die. Party charges up to attack. *boom* *boom* other two die. Party looks around morosely at having nothing to hack. They didn't even get to use their stupefying touch that works great vs casters. |
| #72stpetegamerJul 23, 2008 21:45:09 | This is a great thread man lots of good source work here. Also, not to to sound ungrateful, do you know of a compiled list of monsters for Summon Undead? Also I am looking for where I can get all the monsters stats from that can be summoned with said spell. Again thanks for the help. |
| #73mxyzplkJul 23, 2008 22:21:44 | Hey man! As far as I know there are no expanded options for Summon Undead, RAW. As an expansion spell I don't think any of the monster book authors have bothered to think about it. So pretty much like the SC says, SUMMON UNDEAD LISTS 1st Level: Human warrior skeleton (MM 226), kobold zombie (MM 266) 2nd Level: Owlbear skeleton (MM 226), bugbear zombie (MM 267). 3rd Level: Ghoul (MM 118), troll skeleton (MM 227), ogre zombie (MM 267). 4th Level: Allip (MM 10), ghast (MM 119), wyvern zombie (MM 267). 5th Level: Mummy (MM 190), shadow (MM 221), vampire spawn (MM 253), wight (MM 255). Any additions would be up to your DM. |
| #74stpetegamerJul 24, 2008 1:39:11 | Hey man! As far as I know there are no expanded options for Summon Undead, RAW. As an expansion spell I don't think any of the monster book authors have bothered to think about it. So pretty much like the SC says, Blah raw deal necromancers get the shaft again thanks for the page number refernces. |
| #75rpgsquireJul 29, 2008 14:11:26 | Spell like abilities are a standard action. The casting time of the original spell doesn't matter. Consider that it can use Hallow three times a day but the spell has a 24 hour casting time. The movanic deva deservers a huge mention here because it can raise dead! As well as remove poison, curses, disease, etc. Finally, an on-call cleric. Unfortunately due to long casting times it can't use its atonement, commune, or divination for you. Sad. Well, that's what Planar Binding is for. |
| #76mxyzplkJul 31, 2008 19:13:39 | Really!!! So its raise dead can be used as a "combat rez" as well! That really raises (get it!) its utility. |
| #77lolwutdudezomgwtfbbqJul 18, 2009 14:01:25 | *Sorry for my bad english* Awesome thread. Thanks to you, my Malconvoker will be twice as good. I think I may have caught some error though. When you are rating the SMI, you say that the best aquatic summon is a celestial dolphin, which is nowhere to be found in your list. If you have the time, I suggest you also mark if the monster is summonable in water only and also if the monster can breath air and water equally. (Or extented old breath like the sne snake) And also, please comment the best aquatic monster for every level (if you haven't done it yet). I'm asking all of this because I'm actually playing a Malconvoker on a "ship campaign". Thanks again for this wonderful guide. |
| #78emyJul 18, 2009 14:09:19 | Since this thread was recently bumped, I'd like to call this out as misinformation:Spell like abilities are a standard action. The casting time of the original spell doesn't matter. Consider that it can use Hallow three times a day but the spell has a 24 hour casting time. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/specialAbilities.htm#spellLikeAbilities A spell-like ability takes the same amount of time to complete as the spell that it mimics (usually 1 standard action) unless otherwise stated. Yes, it's silly that it can use a 24h casting time spell three times per day. But it still takes the same time as the original spell to cast. |
| #79BalthanonJul 19, 2009 8:49:09 | Yes, it's silly that it can use a 24h casting time spell three times per day. But it still takes the same time as the original spell to cast. The Rules Compendium updated that to make spell-like abilties standard actions unless they take _less_ time to cast than a standard action. |
| #80mxyzplkAug 01, 2009 18:36:15 | *Sorry for my bad english* Awesome thread. Thanks to you, my Malconvoker will be twice as good. I think I may have caught some error though. When you are rating the SMI, you say that the best aquatic summon is a celestial dolphin, which is nowhere to be found in your list. If you have the time, I suggest you also mark if the monster is summonable in water only and also if the monster can breath air and water equally. (Or extented old breath like the sne snake) And also, please comment the best aquatic monster for every level (if you haven't done it yet). I'm asking all of this because I'm actually playing a Malconvoker on a "ship campaign". Thanks again for this wonderful guide. Hi! porpoise=dolphin, technically porpoise is the correct term but us Americans call them dolphins usually. Celestial Porpoise is on the list. And I mark "Aquatic" on relevant entries on the helper spreadsheet linked off my page. Hope that helps! |
| #81EndarireOct 01, 2009 23:46:08 | Ker-SAVE! |
| #82alanlichenOct 02, 2009 8:17:55 | Is there a similar list to SNA? |
| #83EndarireOct 05, 2009 13:24:58 | Here are Greenbound and Ashbound versions of PHB/MM summonlings from SNA. |
| #84EndarireMay 24, 2010 5:05:46 | Stayin' alive! |
| #85ZireaelMay 24, 2010 9:48:34 | Wonderful resource, I think I'll save that. |
| #86EndarireNov 16, 2010 0:07:25 | Please port this to Brilliant Gameologists! |
| #87bigtunaJun 26, 2011 9:08:21 | Keeping it alive... And did anyone notice the Voor from MMIV. 4 attacks, reach - but freaking blind! Sure it has blindsense but not sight. Why would you want a creature with 50% miss chance??? It doesn´t even have blindfighting... |
| #88EndarireJul 12, 2012 22:02:37 | Save! |
| #89EndarireJul 26, 2012 21:13:56 | Save again! |