Vital Feats: Power Throw, Brutal Throw, Boomerang Daze, Boomerang Ricochet, Talenta Warrior.
Let's see where we can go with this. Yes, I know there's an XP penalty, but this build could be feat-hungry. A Barb7/Fighter8 build could also be looked at.
Hafling Barbarian11/Fighter4/Master Thrower5
Vital Feats: Power Throw, Brutal Throw, Boomerang Daze, Boomerang Ricochet, Talenta Warrior.
Let's see where we can go with this. Yes, I know there's an XP penalty, but this build could be feat-hungry. A Barb7/Fighter8 build could also be looked at.
Shoot, and I just loaned out my copy of Races of Eberron... And some of the posters here don't have it yet. Quick summary of those feats? (I admit I never looked at Talenta Warrior at all...)
Boomerang Daze
You can daze the targets of your boomerang attacks.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with Talenta boomerang or Xen'drik boomerang, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: When you attack with a Talenta boomerang or Xen'drik boomerang (see page 119 of the Eberron Campaign Setting), any target creature that takes damage must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt) or be dazed for 1 round (until just before your next action). If you have the Boomerang Ricochet feat (described in Races of Eberron), you can daze both targets.
Special: A halfling fighter from the Talenta Plains or a drow fighter from Xen'drik can select Boomerang Daze as one of his fighter bonus feats.
the other feat "Boomerang Richochet" makes the Boomerang function as a skiprock, but returns after the second attack.
:D
so with a BAB +16, you get 16 attacks plus 12 for TWF,ITWF,GTWF plus 4 Rapid shot
32 attacks that return and can Daze thier targets....all non-magically
good find RadicalTaoistAlthough Barb7 is a good place to break...
basically this build will be able to Power Attack with weapons that return, and each attack can produce 4 total attacks with each throw...all touch attacks...and trip attacks while power attacking. ouch and Raging
so with a BAB +16, you get 16 attacks plus 12 for TWF,ITWF,GTWF plus 4 Rapid shot
32 attacks that return and can Daze thier targets....all non-magically
Thanx...but how feat heavy is that?
I don't think Barbarian is the way to go here. Maybe Fighter/Warmind would be better.
The key, however, to my build is the Master Thrower's ability (gainable at 5th level) that allows you to treat all thrown weapon attacks as ranged touch attacks. Combing that with Power Throw from Complete Adventurer, which effectively lets me Power Attack with thrown weapons. So add full BAB Power Attacking damage to all those attacks (a reason I want only perfect BAB classes in this build). Since Boomerang Daze's DC is based on damage, I can have foes trying to save againts DCs in the 40s at the high levels. Best of all, this is not precision damage, so it works against stuff like constructs and at any range I can chuck the boomerang.
BBEG Warlord: "Hah! Even if that puny halfling could hit me from all the way over there, he wouldn't be able to do any real damage a-" *THUNK*
Barbarian 7/ Fighter 8/ master thrower 5
strongheart halfling
7 regular feats
1 bonus( strongheart halfling)
5 bonus(fighter)
feats needed
weapon focus(boomerang)
point blank shot
precise shot
rapid shot
power attack
brutal throw
Boomerang Daze
Boomerang Ricochet
Talenta Warrior
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
and you have 1 feat left over Far shot would be a good choice
:D
As for feat intensity: aside from the five feats you mentioned as being vital master thrower requires point blank shot, precise shot and weapon focus in a thrown weapon. Add the two weapon fighting chain and thats 11, add rapid shot and thats 12. Thats a lot of feats, but it can be done. Races of the wild has a halfling throwing prestige class called whisperknife that is full BAB and at very least gets rapid shot at first level. I'm fairly certain the prereqs will overlap at least a bit with master thrower, I don't have my books with me so I can't exactly look it up though.
basically this build will be able to Power Attack with weapons that return, and each attack can produce 4 total attacks with each throw...all touch attacks...and trip attacks while power attacking. ouch and Raging
so with a BAB +16, you get 16 attacks plus 12 for TWF,ITWF,GTWF plus 4 Rapid shot
32 attacks that return and can Daze thier targets....all non-magically
Why does each attack get 4 total attacks?
Normal BAB +16 gives 4 attacks. Then since each attack hits 4 times that is 16 attacks. Then you get 3 attacks for the TWF tree, but since each attack (again) counts as 4 hits you get 12 --- getting at 28...then 1 attack for rapid shot (again counts as 4 attacks) for an additional 4 and 32...does that sound right? Damn I think I am going to play this in the level 18 game I am joining.
So how many of these boomerangs will I need? Any recommended abilities on the boomerang?
This will be extra nice since it is all touch attack.
:D
you only need 16 boomerangs
:D
Well damn? How about a boomerang of returning (or does that return at the end of the round)? Or can the boomerangs be considered projectiles (like arrows) so you could enchant a bag to enchant them like a bow does?
This would be a nice class, but enchanting 16 boomerangs each with say +1 and another +1 ability (i.e. flaming,frost) would get insanely expensive.
EDIT: 16? I counted 8.....
4 normal attacks
1 rapid shot
3 TWF tree
the nature of the boomarang is to return when it is thrown....so it automatically does without enhancement
:D
If you're willing to go Fighter8/Master Thrower5/Warmind 7 in progression (you need to take Wild Talent instead of Far Shot, but thankfully you can meet Warmind's cc skills prereq at level 13) that would give us some interesting options.
Or give up some attacks and use psychic warrior to get access to telekinetic boomerang ... you will need ML11 to affect 4 boomerangs at a time.
Well the multiple attacks can still be reached with PW, what I don't want to lose that psywar would take is points of BAB. Power Throw runs off of BAB.
We oughta run some damage per full attack calculations. We only lose Str to damage...not Power Throw damage:D
If you're willing to go Fighter8/Master Thrower5/Warmind 7 in progression (you need to take Wild Talent instead of Far Shot, but thankfully you can meet Warmind's cc skills prereq at level 13) that would give us some interesting options.
:lightbulb Sweeping Strike (Ex)
...
:whatsthis Sweeping Strike (Ex): At 5th level, a war mind gains the ability to make great, sweeping swings with a melee weapon. On each melee attack a war mind makes, he can choose squares he threatens that are adjacent to each other, and his attacks apply to creatures in those two squares equally. A war mind can use this ability on any attack, even an attack of opportunity or a cleave attempt.
Hmm, yea,,,hmmm where does one find the stats for a Boomerang :D
Both the Talenta boomerang (this one, a bit rounder than usual boomerangs) and the Xen'drik boomerang (looks like a Klingon weapon or a manufactured thri-kreen chatkcha) are in the Eberron campaign setting; a generic one is in Complete Warrior.
You can use TWF and Rapid Shot in the same action. It works like this, assuming 4 attacks per round and all the TWF feats:
Four main attacks + 1 Rapid Shot.
3 off-hand attacks (one for each TWF feat).
Flurry of Blows works the same way, too.
(Is Races of Eberron as packed with good CO material as it seems to be?)
(Qaetar)
You would have to have some silver, cold iron, and adamantine ones as well, naturally, and bucketfull of oil of bless weapon, it's a great build.
I'd also add holy water, alchemist's fire, acid, and sparkstones for creatures that have ridiculous DR, or are immune to weapons. Not as effective as the boomarangs, but far better than 16 attacks that don't work.
:D
With the loss of Str to damage with the ranged touch attacks and palm throw, perhaps this build should ignore brutal throw and look to add damage in different ways? Are there any feats/abilities that allow dexterity instead of strength to be applied to thrown weapon damage?
http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=4584975
Everyone should bookmark that one.
How about a psychic warrior 8\halfling paragon2\elocator5\master thrower 5?
Can manifest telekinetic boomerang on 4 boomerangs, and if you have a summoner which can make sure a lot of stuff is damaged in melee you are golden.
What is Telekinetic Boomerang from?
Ack, my build only has BAB 15 ... scratch that one, couldnt use powerthrow anyway.
With the loss of Str to damage with the ranged touch attacks and palm throw, perhaps this build should ignore brutal throw and look to add damage in different ways? Are there any feats/abilities that allow dexterity instead of strength to be applied to thrown weapon damage?
The thing is, this build needs Brutal Throw to qualify for Power Throw, which is where most of the damage comes from.
With the loss of Str to damage with the ranged touch attacks and palm throw, perhaps this build should ignore brutal throw and look to add damage in different ways? Are there any feats/abilities that allow dexterity instead of strength to be applied to thrown weapon damage?
With brutal throw and touch attacks you do not need strength. Think of it, at level 20 you sacrifice all of your BAB for bonus to damage. Thats +20 damage. You are doing a ranged touch attack so: Dex, Weapon Focus, Weapon Magic modifier, Point Blank Shot +d20 roll = very easy target.
1-3 levels of Whisperknife would dovetail well with this build (rapid shot, uncanny dodge, 1s6 SA, and you can move after ranged attacks with returning weapons and have them return to your new location) The only real problem adding this is feat prerequs (PBS, Quick-Draw, TWF, and Weapon Finesse), and hte fact that you need 1d6 SA. Personally I'd let Scout's Skirmish substitute, but you still lose a point of BaB in the deal.
Those feats are not a problem. PBS is required anyhow. TWF tree is already in place. You would need to add weapon finesse. QuickDraw is given free from master thrower.
I don't like the scout personally though.
Really, I'm just trying to figure out how best to start this character and make him effective 1-10. Given my DM, he'll probably be dead by then, and I'd rather get some use out of him than be dead-weight for several levels.
Readied action, fireburst (or some such). Wall of Fire would work as well. the thing is, the caster waits until you have thrown your boomerarrangs, and casts the spell then, wasting them all (they don't even get a save, since they are unattended, I think). He then spends a round laughing at you while you cry.
Cute idea though, you could destroy one likely expensive boomerang ... after that he is likely to concentrate all his remaining attacks on you though with his other boomerangs, dunno if you want that kind of attention.
And all attacks happen at the same time, so I'd waste all of the boomerangs at once. Debatable, I'll admit, but an interesting thought, don't you think?
And all attacks happen at the same time
Where exactly does it say that?
to save:D
LOL.
-EE
Rogue 3 / Fighter 2 / Swash 1 / Whisper Knife 10 / Ranger 1 / Thief Acrobat 3
It doesn't pull in the palm toss bit for extra cheese, but maintains a respecable +18 BAB with 12/15/5 (ouch) saves and solid enough skills to play the trap-monkey roll.
Your ricochet attack from the boomerangs isn't going to do much more than give you a chance of making the target roll a 1 or so on the fort save for the daze, but it will happen sometimes. With ~6d6 ranged Sneak attack though the first hit should force a pretty tough save.
To bring it to full board standard cheese, shaving off a level of WK and the Ranger + TA levels would let you still grab all of the MT abuse you wanted.
=D
EDIT: Craven + 1 SA die from somewhere?
I can't help but think this would be hilarious with ranged trip and knockdown. I got this mental image of a halfling throwing a crapload of boomerangs and knocking down this huge crowd of people.
Doesn't help that I was just watching The Matrix: Reloaded in stage combat class today. (Say what you like about the movie, but the combat choreography is amazing and well worth study.)
What are the actual attack roll numbers PAing down all the way with a 30 Dex?
I'm not honestly sure since we never ironed out a build. I should. I was planning to go Fighter8/Master Thrower5/Warmind 7 in that order, but I didn't know if there was material in Races of the Wild that could help.
-=TD=-
-=TD=-
Something like rogue 2/fighter 4/whisperknife 8/master thrower 5/whatever 1
the other feat "Boomerang Richochet" makes the Boomerang function as a skiprock, but returns after the second attack.
:D
This is the quote I was concerned with. I was just wondering how Carnivore figured it returned after the second attack.
Boomerangs arent small enough for this, surely. Its not working RAW (unless i am mistaken or missing something, if so point it out and laugh at me)... Needs DMly permission which, I am sure, would not be forthcoming...
This is the quote I was concerned with. I was just wondering how Carnivore figured it returned after the second attack.
use Glove of Tarrnhan the Vigilant: they give throwing and returning to any weapon you throw
:D
And secondly A list of my idea's:
To solve the problem of not being ble to catch 8 boomerangs 1; Be Thri-Kreen and have a Glove of holding on each hand. OR; Convince the Dm that sleight of hand lets you do it, After all it ais in the text "....conceal a light weapon such as a dagger on your persons..." or something like that.
I always like to makemy own builds for any idea's that come out on the forums. It helps me to understand how this character goes about doing its thing.
MY BUILD:
Fighter 5/ Throwing Weapon Master 5/ Fighter 5 / Rogue 5
By level 15 this build has every feat needed including the TWF tree. With the level 18 feat free for whatever you want. I recomend against getting farshot for the following reasons:
PBS FEAT: only within 30ft.
SNEAK ATTACK: only within 30ft
Ok. Your all thinking sneak attack 3d6 is an ok choice considering you have 5 levels to play around with. But i took it a step further and though of a nice way of making this ranged weapon master even more dangerous.
You need to buy this: Goggles of Arcane Sight (continous) 30,000gp
WHY? Because YOU need to be able to see the invisible boomerangs your throwing at these Flat-footed and Touch attacked enemies.
Yes, instead of giving these admantine boomerangs the flaming, frost or lightning ability, have permanent invisibility cast on them and have fun attacking those AC10 critters.
EDIT: Make sure they have the returning mgical ability so you can see them with arcane sight.
Its class features gained in the first few levels seem to be pretty much the same abilities you gained throguh feats. At the very least it would save you a feat on throw anything in exchange for a Warblade dip and point blank shot (which seems like a good idea anyway)
Personally, I dont think a boomerang quite qualifies for the 'Small thrown weapon such as daggers' prerequisite of Palm Throw, and seeing as this build is so very boomerang-centric, this point has to be cleared up if the build is to be seen as legit. So, can anyone explain it or is it an oversight of the OP?
Seerow: I don't have the Nine Swords yet, so I can't tell.
The thing is, Talenta Warrior is superior to Exotic Weapon Proficiency.
If your halfling is native to Talenta, then the talenta boomerang is treated as a martial weapon according to the notes at the bottom of the weapons table. So that frees up a feat slot for this build (which I like very much!). If he/she isn't native though, then I can see why it is superior to Exotic Prof.
Sheathing a weapon is still a move action even with quick draw and even though slieght of hand lets you store an item on your body, it's still a move action to do so.
The glove of holding might work, but if the DM rules that all 16 boomerangs return at once, you're still gonna have 14 boomerangs at your feet.
If you want the palm throw still, switch to skip rocks, drop the boomerang stuff and pick up far shot. You'll lose some range though. Also, you'll need a lot of them as you only get about half of them back after then encounter.
stongheart water halfling (extra feat, +2 dex, +2 con, -2 str, swim speed, +1 atack agains fire creatures and -2 saves agains fire spells)
1 - rogue 1 (halfling substitution level, +2d6 ranged SA, +0 melee SA) talenta warrior, PBS
2 - fighter 1 PS
3 - fighter 2 WF (talenta boomerang), Power atack
4 - swashbucler 1 Weapon finesse
5 - swashbucler 2
6 - swashbucler 3 Brutal throw, Int to damage
7 - Master Thrower 1
8 - Master Thrower 2
9 - Master Thrower 3 Power throw
10 - Master Thrower 4
11 - Master Thrower 5
12 - Exotic weapon master 1 Twin exotic weapon fighting (TWF feat), boomerang daze
13 - Whisperknife 1 rapid shot, uncany dodge
14 - Whisperknife 2 SA+3d6/+1d6
15 - Whisperknife 3 defesive throw, improved catch, boomerang ricochet
16 - Halfling paragon
17 - Halfling paragon +2 ranged dmg
18 - Halfling paragon +2 Dex ITWF
19 - Fighter 3
20 - Fighter 4 GTWF
What is a good bonus to hit with a touch atack? im worried about that because my DM usualy gives us very few magic items, so i wont have good atribute bonuses or +5 weapons. If i cant hit my enemies, i will stop full power atacking, or maybe change GTWF for some other thing...
In the players guide, draw or sheathe weapons are listed as the same action, i think (PG page 142), so just use the quick draw feat to sheathe all boomerangs as free actions.
Does anyone has any ideas to make this build playable from 1 to 20? Or we could return to the raging barbarian idea...
This is my first post and my english is not very good, so i hope everyone can understand me... Anyway, i would apreciate any comments on my ideas...
For suggestions: Dip a level or two into Warblade for some Iron Heart stuff, than 4 into Bloodstorm Blade so you can full attack with 2 thrown boomerangs (and catch them too). You can even make Iron Heart strikes with boomerangs (mithril tornado perhaps?) and, as a swift action, get the benefits of Brutal Throw and Power Throw for free. Is there anything Tome of Battle DOESN'T make better? I cut my leg the other day and rubbed my copy of ToB on it ... it healed completely!
Since you're going for some barbarian levels, give one of your boomerangs the Furious enhancement so you wont need to devote so many levels in your build for improved rage.
where do u find palm throw?
it is a Thrown weapon trick...that a Master Thrower can learn.....Master Thrower is from Complete Warrior
:D
Halfling Fighter4/Warblade1/bloodstormblade10/masterthrower5
Build Progression:
1-Fighter1 exotic weapon prof(boomerang)*, point blank shot
2-Fighter2 precise shot
3-Fighter3 rapid shot
4-Fighter4 weapon focus(boomerang)
5-Warblade1 *Weapon aptitude kicks in, allowing that exotic weapon proficiency you took earlier to be useful in other ways, if necessary.
6-Bloodstormblade1 (Returning weapons, throw anything), boomerang daze
7-Bloodstormblade2 (Martial throw, THUNDEROUS THROW)
8-Bloodstormblade3 Power attack
9-Bloodstormblade4 (Lightning Ricochet->this allows free returning full attacks *without* having to expend iron heart strikes), Boomerang Ricochet
10-Master Thrower1 Quickdraw, (Trip shot)
11-Master Thrower2 Evasion
12-Master Thrower3 Twoweaponfighting, (Two with one Blow)
13-Master Thrower4 Snatch Arrows
14-Master Thrower5 (Critical throw, WEAK SPOT)
15-Bloodstormblade5 (Blood wind ricochet), Improved Twoweaponfighting
16-Bloodstormblade6 Greater Twoweaponfighting
17-Bloodstormblade7 (Eye of the storm)
18-Bloodstormblade8 -FREE FEAT-, (Blood rain)
19-Bloodstormblade9 -FREE FIGHTER FEAT-
20-Bloodstormblade10 (Blade storm)
Two free feats, three if you go the strongheart halfling route, five if you work with flaws.
The only things I'm worried about are
a)The slow start of this build, it gets going around level 6, having full access to its signature trick by level 9, with more levels giving more attacks and some master thrower goodies
b)The limited maneuvers you get...and then have to burn on bloodstormblade abilities, at least until you get lightning ricochet.
edit* also I'm unclear if witht his build you still need 16 boomerangs since the description of lightning ricochet is confusing me a little. I'm interpreting that you would only need 2 since it says you can make a full attack entirely with thrown weapon attacks. I guess 4 if you are using palm throw?
"Anytime you make a ranged attack with a thrown weapon on your turn, the weapon immediately returns to you, and you can catch it as a free action. This ability allows you to make a full attack entirely with thrown weapon attacks, or with a mix of thrown and melee attacks"
Look at Master_Ghola's "Sir Ownzalot" build in the Tomb of Battle compendium, he does what your halfling does and cheaper too.
No duh, the OP is nearing two years old :P Did you think no one was aware of this?
How would I pull this off now? Hmm....Maybe, since BB removes the need for Telekinetic Boomerang and all that, a Halfling Warblade1/Fighter2/Psywar2/Warmind6/Bloodstorm Blade4/Master Thrower5 with Stormguard Warrior, Power Attack, Sweeping Strike, Boomerang Daze, Boomerang Ricochet, and maybe Combat Brute.
...so do you now only need 2 boomerangs (4 if palm throwing) beacause of BB's lightning ricochet?
To be brief:
Yes, you need only 2(or 4) boomerangs.
edit* also I'm unclear if witht his build you still need 16 boomerangs since the description of lightning ricochet is confusing me a little. I'm interpreting that you would only need 2 since it says you can make a full attack entirely with thrown weapon attacks. I guess 4 if you are using palm throw?
Correct on both counts.
It's probably easier to fit in lightning ricochet than telekinetic boomerang (the only way to make iterative attacks with a single thrown weapon before ToB).
are invisible weapons for reals? They seem a bit overpowered (imagine what would happen ig it was in the hands of a rogue) especially for just a +1 weapon.
There isn't a weapon ability to make them invisible, Morpha was just referring to casting Greater Invisibility on them and somehow making it permanent. I'm not even sure that would work, however; you get bonuses for invisibility if YOU are invisible because your enemy can't see you, therefore he doesn't know how or where you're attacking. Making a weapon invisible has nowhere near that same effect, as your opponent would still know which direction to guard and exactly when the attack was coming.
EDIT: Fun thought... Since Thunderous Throw treats ranged attacks as melee attacks, would the Invisible Blade's Uncanny Feint ability work with ranged weapons under the effect of Thunderous Throw? Not terribly powerful unless you have a class that grants SA, but against opponents that rely on Dodge-type bonuses to AC it could spell disaster.
Sorry when my english is not that good, cause i'm german
My question concerns the Thrown Weapon Tricks... I want to choose 'Palm Throw', 'Trip Shot' and of course 'Weak Spot' and now i dont know how often can I take the TWTs, if I got 3 attacks on my main hand and 2 on my off hand? Does the TWTs stack, so i can strike 5 attacks and use Palm Throw (throw two daggers each attack)...so i got 10 attacks, can i take Weak Spot and Trip Shot for each of these 10 attacks, that i do a ranged touch attack with a chance to trip every 10 attacks!
And how it's with 'Sneaky Shot', i have to do a move action (Sleight of Hand Check), so i can't make a full attack and can only do one attack (one Sneak Attack).... is this right?
Thx for your help...
EJ
Why has nobody mentioned Exit Wound or Explosive yet? As well as Two In One Blow?
=D
EDIT: Craven + 1 SA die from somewhere?
Where s "Two In One Blow" found?
L'Avantgarde Noire
1st iteritive attack = 2 attacks for palm throw
Each of those two attacks could hit two with Two in One blow = 4 attacks
Each of those 4 attacks could boomerang ricochet into 8 attacks...and that is all just on your 1st iteritive attack and uses just 2 boomerangs.
What if the character was a Warblade and used weapon aptitude to use the feat Boomerang Ricochet to apply to small thrown weapons like skipstones?
Or aptitude weapon enhancement?
Has there ever been any clarification on how this ability works?
I mean, the examples given for Warblade weapon aptitude are for feats that can be selected to operate on any weapon, but the actual written text says apply the benefit of a weapon feat to another weapon...it doesn't say it is restricted to only weapons for which the feat would "normally" apply.
Does anyone know a definitive answer for this? And can you source it?
:D
I won't let him do it with boomerangs of doom of course. He's going to stay a ninja. Still a radical trick. Imagine 16 sudden strikes per round...
Actually, I'm keeping this trick all to my self.
Not only is this good for the BB build, but also any SA based build.
Like I said, I'm not sure if it only applies to the first attack or all of them, but it only works once on a single opponent. Also, it requires a moderate dex and a few ranks in Know(planes) but I think it would be worth it.
AC10 we are getting closer. :D
My 2 platinum....
:D
Sweet.
to save this resource:D