Let's talk about Shadows (no Str damage here, folks) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Let's talk about Shadows (no Str damage here, folks)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
true_shinken
Dec 27, 2008 13:06:10 OK, so we have some races that give darkness as a spell-like ability (drow and tiefling spring to mind; tiefling is better for the lower LA), Drow of the Underdark with some extra dark goods (the darkness-based feats) and Tome of Magic. OK, shadowcaster sucks, everyone knows that and all... but some of the prestige classes have nothing to do with them at all -- like the Shadowblade. OK, he is absolutely nowhere NEAR the uberness of a Telflammar Shadowlord or something, but the class is interesting. Any ideas on how to mix and match tiefling/drow, darkness feats and this class? I was actually thinking (gasp!) Soulknife as there is a tiefling soulknife in my game but this is really just an exercise.
#2
gorfnad_the_shiznit
Dec 28, 2008 1:03:21 Actually I have a theoretical build that I've been mashing up for a more casual play involving just the drow side of that. Now this build involves LA buy-off for the drow +2LA and 2 flaws for 2 feats option

1. Spellthief - Magic in the Blood, Versatile Combatant, Gift of the Spider Queen
2. Swashbuckler
3. Swashbuckler # - Craven
4. Swashbuckler
5. Wizard - ^ Hand Crossbow Focus
6. Drow Paragon - Combat Casting
7. Drow Paragon
8. Drow Paragon
9. Abjurant Champion - Master Spellthief
10. Abjurant Champion
11. Abjurant Champion
12. Abjurant Champion - Open*
13. Abjurant Champion
14. Unseen Seer
15. Unseen Seer - Open*
16. Unseen Seer
17. Unseen Seer
18. Unseen Seer - Open*
19. Unseen Seer
20. Unseen Seer

# - Arcane Stunt Variant: Spider Climb instead of Grace ability
^ - Simple Wizard Variant: Fighter Bonus Feats instead of Scribe Scroll and other wizard bonus feats. Immediate Magic Variant: Abjurant Jaunt instead of Familiar
Open* - TWF tree, Com Expertise/ Imp Feint/ Sur Riposte, or any such sneaky stabby feat progression.

So basically with a Ring of Drow Blood you end up with 5 uses of each drow SLA or 5 uses of that invisibility ability from Gift of the Spider Queen which of course sets you nicely for sneak attacking (don't forget Hunters Eye) and spell stealing. Otherwise the build is just a very sneaky stabby arcane rogue build with decent skill points, spell options, and 3/4 BAB.

Now for a Shadow Blade Build
Tiefling with Shadow Walker Template (With LA buy-off) and 2 Flaws
1. Rogue - Dodge, Mobility, Craven
2. Rogue
3. Rogue - Blindfight
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swashbuckler - Spring Attack
7. Shadow Blade
8. Shadow Blade
9. Telfammar Shadowlord - Martial Study: Cloak of Deception
10. Telfammar Shadowlord
11. Telfammar Shadowlord
12. Telfammar Shadowlord - Martial Stance: Assassins Stance
13. Shadow Blade
14. Shadow Blade
15. Shadow Blade - Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt
16. Shadow Blade
17. Shadow Blade
18. Shadow Blade - Gloom Razor
19. Shadow Blade
20. Shadow Blade

The best Telfammar Shadowlord ability of shadow pounce and all 10 levels of Shadow Blade.
#3
true_shinken
Dec 28, 2008 16:50:05 Shadow Blade has sudden strike instead of sneak attack, so I don't think Craven is all that good, but thanks for the input.
I'm looking for a way to optimize the darkness feats as well. I can't really see how to put it all in a single build, too many feats and I need too many skills to be waisting levels on Fighter :/
#4
gorfnad_the_shiznit
Dec 28, 2008 16:55:40
Shadow Blade has sudden strike instead of sneak attack, so I don't think Craven is all that good, but thanks for the input.
I'm looking for a way to optimize the darkness feats as well. I can't really see how to put it all in a single build, too many feats and I need too many skills to be waisting levels on Fighter :/

Well usually when the sudden strike activates so too does the sneak attack (from the rogue levels in this case) which means with craven that's an extra 1 damage/level. Also if you read the definition of sudden strike, it can be used to qualify for sneak attack related feats/classes/most other effects.
#5
true_shinken
Dec 28, 2008 17:03:21
Well usually when the sudden strike activates so too does the sneak attack (from the rogue levels in this case) which means with craven that's an extra 1 damage/level. Also if you read the definition of sudden strike, it can be used to qualify for sneak attack related feats/classes/most other effects.

Right, right, I'm not saying Craven is a bad feat per se or anything, just that Sudden Strike per se wouldn't activate Craven (it does activate because the character gets sneak attack from other sources, though), savvy?
#6
gorfnad_the_shiznit
Dec 28, 2008 17:10:22
Right, right, I'm not saying Craven is a bad feat per se or anything, just that Sudden Strike per se wouldn't activate Craven (it does activate because the character gets sneak attack from other sources, though), savvy?

Yes and no. Since sudden strike counts for ambush feats, prestige class requirements, and other such abilities that it just makes sense R.A.I. to work with Craven although by R.A.W. Craven only mentions sneak attack. I guess that would be up to the DM. When you think about it though An extra 20 damage at 20th level is equal to about 6d6 - 7d6 sneak attack dice, or about 1d6 extra sneak attack dice per 3 levels.
#7
gorfnad_the_shiznit
Dec 28, 2008 23:38:50 Another Build Idea
Ranger 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Dread Commando 5/ Shadow Blade 10
Really the only feats you have to have with this build are Dodge, Mobility and Blindfight. So the remaining feats could easily be used for darkness enhancing feats. Also this build has 17 BAB which is always nice.
#8
true_shinken
Dec 29, 2008 8:21:05 Dread Commando does combo pretty well with Shadow Blade, thanks for the input ^^
#9
jimmynids
Jun 16, 2009 19:30:51
Actually I have a theoretical build that I've been mashing up for a more casual play involving just the drow side of that. Now this build involves LA buy-off for the drow +2LA and 2 flaws for 2 feats option

1. Spellthief - Magic in the Blood, Versatile Combatant, Gift of the Spider Queen
2. Swashbuckler
3. Swashbuckler # - Craven
4. Swashbuckler
5. Wizard - ^ Hand Crossbow Focus
6. Drow Paragon - Combat Casting
7. Drow Paragon
8. Drow Paragon
9. Abjurant Champion - Master Spellthief
10. Abjurant Champion
11. Abjurant Champion
12. Abjurant Champion - Open*
13. Abjurant Champion
14. Unseen Seer
15. Unseen Seer - Open*
16. Unseen Seer
17. Unseen Seer
18. Unseen Seer - Open*
19. Unseen Seer
20. Unseen Seer

# - Arcane Stunt Variant: Spider Climb instead of Grace ability
^ - Simple Wizard Variant: Fighter Bonus Feats instead of Scribe Scroll and other wizard bonus feats. Immediate Magic Variant: Abjurant Jaunt instead of Familiar
Open* - TWF tree, Com Expertise/ Imp Feint/ Sur Riposte, or any such sneaky stabby feat progression.

So basically with a Ring of Drow Blood you end up with 5 uses of each drow SLA or 5 uses of that invisibility ability from Gift of the Spider Queen which of course sets you nicely for sneak attacking (don't forget Hunters Eye) and spell stealing. Otherwise the build is just a very sneaky stabby arcane rogue build with decent skill points, spell options, and 3/4 BAB.

Now for a Shadow Blade Build
Tiefling with Shadow Walker Template (With LA buy-off) and 2 Flaws
1. Rogue - Dodge, Mobility, Craven
2. Rogue
3. Rogue - Blindfight
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Swashbuckler - Spring Attack
7. Shadow Blade
8. Shadow Blade
9. Telfammar Shadowlord - Martial Study: Cloak of Deception
10. Telfammar Shadowlord
11. Telfammar Shadowlord
12. Telfammar Shadowlord - Martial Stance: Assassins Stance
13. Shadow Blade
14. Shadow Blade
15. Shadow Blade - Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt
16. Shadow Blade
17. Shadow Blade
18. Shadow Blade - Gloom Razor
19. Shadow Blade
20. Shadow Blade

The best Telfammar Shadowlord ability of shadow pounce and all 10 levels of Shadow Blade.

Your build seems nice, except that Gloom Razor has the prerequisite of Shadow Blade, not the class, but the feat as listed in the book of nine swords. It is easy to make that mistake since both the class and feat have the same name, however it requires the feat.
#10
xakypshalorn
Jun 16, 2009 19:44:37 Technically, don't both qualify since both have the same name?
#11
true_shinken
Jun 16, 2009 20:12:14
Technically, don't both qualify since both have the same name?

Of course not. The class and feat are completly different.
#12
xakypshalorn
Jun 16, 2009 20:28:17 My point, is that Gloom Razor doesn't say "The Shadow Blade feat"

It says "Shadow Blade"

It's poor work on the part of the authors, granted, but as long as it's effect doesn't directly build on the effect of the Shadow Blade feat (and thus require it to be effective no matter what) I'd say that one level in the class titled Shadow Blade should legally qualify.
#13
true_shinken
Jun 16, 2009 20:39:02
My point, is that Gloom Razor doesn't say "The Shadow Blade feat"

It says "Shadow Blade"

It's poor work on the part of the authors, granted, but as long as it's effect doesn't directly build on the effect of the Shadow Blade feat (and thus require it to be effective no matter what) I'd say that one level in the class titled Shadow Blade should legally qualify.

That is obviously not intended... Also, when a requirement depends on class it is listed "Monk level one" or something like that. Good luck getting this past a DM...
#14
xakypshalorn
Jun 16, 2009 20:50:09 You'd have no trouble getting it past me lol. "Requirements: Shadow Blade" "How are you meeting that requirement?" "I'm lvel 3 in the Shadow Blade class" "Works for me, have fun with it kid."
#15
gorfnad_the_shiznit
Jun 16, 2009 21:20:22 yeah sorry about missing the prereqs for gloom razor in my build. it was definitely not my intention.
#16
Balthanon
Jun 16, 2009 22:25:14
OK, so we have some races that give darkness as a spell-like ability (drow and tiefling spring to mind; tiefling is better for the lower LA), Drow of the Underdark with some extra dark goods (the darkness-based feats) and Tome of Magic.

Any ideas on how to mix and match tiefling/drow, darkness feats and this class? I was actually thinking (gasp!) Soulknife as there is a tiefling soulknife in my game but this is really just an exercise.

On the darkness side, you might want to pick up a level or three of warlock if you're planning on using the darkness feats from Drow of the Underdark. They can pick up darkness at will as a spell-like ability, and those feats don't require it as a racial ability-- just as a spell-like ability. I particularly like that with the feat that lets you hide in plain sight so long as you have magical darkness available.

With regards to Shadowblade, I would probably cut it off at level 8 so you're not losing additional base attack bonus. Maybe something like Ranger 2/Warlock 4/Shadowblade 8 to start, taking darkness, eldritch glaive (particularly if your DM is nice enough to allow you to manifest your shadowblade powers with it), and baleful utterance as your invocations. You could finish up with guerilla warrior or something with actual sneak attack damage so you can add that in.

If you're still playing drow or tiefling, you would also need to make it ranger 3/warlock 3 to start.

(And technically the feat is Shadow Blade and the class is Shadowblade ;))
#17
acereraklives
Jun 17, 2009 0:39:12 Balthanon beat me to the punch as far as warlocks go

Here's a fun little build that might work well with the shadows motiff:

Human Rogue 1/Warlock 2/Rogue +2/Swashbuckler 15
Stuff at 20: BAB +17, SA of 9d6+20, delivered by a 1d6 eldritch blast touch attack.

1st char: Darkstalker or Able Learner
1st human: Craven
3rd char: Instinctive Darkness
6th char: Blend into Shadows
9th char: Daring Outlaw
12th char: Intensify Darkness
15th char: Open
18th char: Open
Warlock invocations: Darkness and Devil Eyes

Also, Assassin might work well with this tactic, especially if you have 60" darkness and can observe your opponents, cackling maliciously from the shadows...
#18
arz
Jun 17, 2009 14:56:02 Darkness @ will you say. How about 3 racial HD w/ +0 LA? Derro are quite the unique race. I can't find any other racial HD races w/ a +0 LA. They are fun to throw out as low CR villains but I've never found an interesting concept to put one in a game as a player.

Looked at the "drow" feats but I've never found a build that I could use to cap them with derro. Sorry drow lovers but derro are just better at every lvl that stays out of the light.:P
#19
true_shinken
Jun 17, 2009 15:18:04
Darkness @ will you say. How about 3 racial HD w/ +0 LA? Derro are quite the unique race. I can't find any other racial HD races w/ a +0 LA. They are fun to throw out as low CR villains but I've never found an interesting concept to put one in a game as a player.

Looked at the "drow" feats but I've never found a build that I could use to cap them with derro. Sorry drow lovers but derro are just better at every lvl that stays out of the light.:P

Sane derro have LA +2 to go with their 3HD and insane derro are not playable.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 true_shinken Dec 27, 2008 13:06:10	OK, so we have some races that give darkness as a spell-like ability (drow and tiefling spring to mind; tiefling is better for the lower LA), Drow of the Underdark with some extra dark goods (the darkness-based feats) and Tome of Magic. OK, shadowcaster sucks, everyone knows that and all... but some of the prestige classes have nothing to do with them at all -- like the Shadowblade. OK, he is absolutely nowhere NEAR the uberness of a Telflammar Shadowlord or something, but the class is interesting. Any ideas on how to mix and match tiefling/drow, darkness feats and this class? I was actually thinking (gasp!) Soulknife as there is a tiefling soulknife in my game but this is really just an exercise.
#2 gorfnad_the_shiznit Dec 28, 2008 1:03:21	Actually I have a theoretical build that I've been mashing up for a more casual play involving just the drow side of that. Now this build involves LA buy-off for the drow +2LA and 2 flaws for 2 feats option 1. Spellthief - Magic in the Blood, Versatile Combatant, Gift of the Spider Queen 2. Swashbuckler 3. Swashbuckler # - Craven 4. Swashbuckler 5. Wizard - ^ Hand Crossbow Focus 6. Drow Paragon - Combat Casting 7. Drow Paragon 8. Drow Paragon 9. Abjurant Champion - Master Spellthief 10. Abjurant Champion 11. Abjurant Champion 12. Abjurant Champion - Open* 13. Abjurant Champion 14. Unseen Seer 15. Unseen Seer - Open* 16. Unseen Seer 17. Unseen Seer 18. Unseen Seer - Open* 19. Unseen Seer 20. Unseen Seer # - Arcane Stunt Variant: Spider Climb instead of Grace ability ^ - Simple Wizard Variant: Fighter Bonus Feats instead of Scribe Scroll and other wizard bonus feats. Immediate Magic Variant: Abjurant Jaunt instead of Familiar Open* - TWF tree, Com Expertise/ Imp Feint/ Sur Riposte, or any such sneaky stabby feat progression. So basically with a Ring of Drow Blood you end up with 5 uses of each drow SLA or 5 uses of that invisibility ability from Gift of the Spider Queen which of course sets you nicely for sneak attacking (don't forget Hunters Eye) and spell stealing. Otherwise the build is just a very sneaky stabby arcane rogue build with decent skill points, spell options, and 3/4 BAB. Now for a Shadow Blade Build Tiefling with Shadow Walker Template (With LA buy-off) and 2 Flaws 1. Rogue - Dodge, Mobility, Craven 2. Rogue 3. Rogue - Blindfight 4. Swashbuckler 5. Swashbuckler 6. Swashbuckler - Spring Attack 7. Shadow Blade 8. Shadow Blade 9. Telfammar Shadowlord - Martial Study: Cloak of Deception 10. Telfammar Shadowlord 11. Telfammar Shadowlord 12. Telfammar Shadowlord - Martial Stance: Assassins Stance 13. Shadow Blade 14. Shadow Blade 15. Shadow Blade - Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt 16. Shadow Blade 17. Shadow Blade 18. Shadow Blade - Gloom Razor 19. Shadow Blade 20. Shadow Blade The best Telfammar Shadowlord ability of shadow pounce and all 10 levels of Shadow Blade.
#3 true_shinken Dec 28, 2008 16:50:05	Shadow Blade has sudden strike instead of sneak attack, so I don't think Craven is all that good, but thanks for the input. I'm looking for a way to optimize the darkness feats as well. I can't really see how to put it all in a single build, too many feats and I need too many skills to be waisting levels on Fighter :/
#4 gorfnad_the_shiznit Dec 28, 2008 16:55:40	Shadow Blade has sudden strike instead of sneak attack, so I don't think Craven is all that good, but thanks for the input. I'm looking for a way to optimize the darkness feats as well. I can't really see how to put it all in a single build, too many feats and I need too many skills to be waisting levels on Fighter :/ Well usually when the sudden strike activates so too does the sneak attack (from the rogue levels in this case) which means with craven that's an extra 1 damage/level. Also if you read the definition of sudden strike, it can be used to qualify for sneak attack related feats/classes/most other effects.
#5 true_shinken Dec 28, 2008 17:03:21	Well usually when the sudden strike activates so too does the sneak attack (from the rogue levels in this case) which means with craven that's an extra 1 damage/level. Also if you read the definition of sudden strike, it can be used to qualify for sneak attack related feats/classes/most other effects. Right, right, I'm not saying Craven is a bad feat per se or anything, just that Sudden Strike per se wouldn't activate Craven (it does activate because the character gets sneak attack from other sources, though), savvy?
#6 gorfnad_the_shiznit Dec 28, 2008 17:10:22	Right, right, I'm not saying Craven is a bad feat per se or anything, just that Sudden Strike per se wouldn't activate Craven (it does activate because the character gets sneak attack from other sources, though), savvy? Yes and no. Since sudden strike counts for ambush feats, prestige class requirements, and other such abilities that it just makes sense R.A.I. to work with Craven although by R.A.W. Craven only mentions sneak attack. I guess that would be up to the DM. When you think about it though An extra 20 damage at 20th level is equal to about 6d6 - 7d6 sneak attack dice, or about 1d6 extra sneak attack dice per 3 levels.
#7 gorfnad_the_shiznit Dec 28, 2008 23:38:50	Another Build Idea Ranger 2/ Swashbuckler 3/ Dread Commando 5/ Shadow Blade 10 Really the only feats you have to have with this build are Dodge, Mobility and Blindfight. So the remaining feats could easily be used for darkness enhancing feats. Also this build has 17 BAB which is always nice.
#8 true_shinken Dec 29, 2008 8:21:05	Dread Commando does combo pretty well with Shadow Blade, thanks for the input ^^
#9 jimmynids Jun 16, 2009 19:30:51	Actually I have a theoretical build that I've been mashing up for a more casual play involving just the drow side of that. Now this build involves LA buy-off for the drow +2LA and 2 flaws for 2 feats option 1. Spellthief - Magic in the Blood, Versatile Combatant, Gift of the Spider Queen 2. Swashbuckler 3. Swashbuckler # - Craven 4. Swashbuckler 5. Wizard - ^ Hand Crossbow Focus 6. Drow Paragon - Combat Casting 7. Drow Paragon 8. Drow Paragon 9. Abjurant Champion - Master Spellthief 10. Abjurant Champion 11. Abjurant Champion 12. Abjurant Champion - Open* 13. Abjurant Champion 14. Unseen Seer 15. Unseen Seer - Open* 16. Unseen Seer 17. Unseen Seer 18. Unseen Seer - Open* 19. Unseen Seer 20. Unseen Seer # - Arcane Stunt Variant: Spider Climb instead of Grace ability ^ - Simple Wizard Variant: Fighter Bonus Feats instead of Scribe Scroll and other wizard bonus feats. Immediate Magic Variant: Abjurant Jaunt instead of Familiar Open* - TWF tree, Com Expertise/ Imp Feint/ Sur Riposte, or any such sneaky stabby feat progression. So basically with a Ring of Drow Blood you end up with 5 uses of each drow SLA or 5 uses of that invisibility ability from Gift of the Spider Queen which of course sets you nicely for sneak attacking (don't forget Hunters Eye) and spell stealing. Otherwise the build is just a very sneaky stabby arcane rogue build with decent skill points, spell options, and 3/4 BAB. Now for a Shadow Blade Build Tiefling with Shadow Walker Template (With LA buy-off) and 2 Flaws 1. Rogue - Dodge, Mobility, Craven 2. Rogue 3. Rogue - Blindfight 4. Swashbuckler 5. Swashbuckler 6. Swashbuckler - Spring Attack 7. Shadow Blade 8. Shadow Blade 9. Telfammar Shadowlord - Martial Study: Cloak of Deception 10. Telfammar Shadowlord 11. Telfammar Shadowlord 12. Telfammar Shadowlord - Martial Stance: Assassins Stance 13. Shadow Blade 14. Shadow Blade 15. Shadow Blade - Martial Study: Shadow Jaunt 16. Shadow Blade 17. Shadow Blade 18. Shadow Blade - Gloom Razor 19. Shadow Blade 20. Shadow Blade The best Telfammar Shadowlord ability of shadow pounce and all 10 levels of Shadow Blade. Your build seems nice, except that Gloom Razor has the prerequisite of Shadow Blade, not the class, but the feat as listed in the book of nine swords. It is easy to make that mistake since both the class and feat have the same name, however it requires the feat.
#10 xakypshalorn Jun 16, 2009 19:44:37	Technically, don't both qualify since both have the same name?
#11 true_shinken Jun 16, 2009 20:12:14	Technically, don't both qualify since both have the same name? Of course not. The class and feat are completly different.
#12 xakypshalorn Jun 16, 2009 20:28:17	My point, is that Gloom Razor doesn't say "The Shadow Blade feat" It says "Shadow Blade" It's poor work on the part of the authors, granted, but as long as it's effect doesn't directly build on the effect of the Shadow Blade feat (and thus require it to be effective no matter what) I'd say that one level in the class titled Shadow Blade should legally qualify.
#13 true_shinken Jun 16, 2009 20:39:02	My point, is that Gloom Razor doesn't say "The Shadow Blade feat" It says "Shadow Blade" It's poor work on the part of the authors, granted, but as long as it's effect doesn't directly build on the effect of the Shadow Blade feat (and thus require it to be effective no matter what) I'd say that one level in the class titled Shadow Blade should legally qualify. That is obviously not intended... Also, when a requirement depends on class it is listed "Monk level one" or something like that. Good luck getting this past a DM...
#14 xakypshalorn Jun 16, 2009 20:50:09	You'd have no trouble getting it past me lol. "Requirements: Shadow Blade" "How are you meeting that requirement?" "I'm lvel 3 in the Shadow Blade class" "Works for me, have fun with it kid."
#15 gorfnad_the_shiznit Jun 16, 2009 21:20:22	yeah sorry about missing the prereqs for gloom razor in my build. it was definitely not my intention.
#16 Balthanon Jun 16, 2009 22:25:14	OK, so we have some races that give darkness as a spell-like ability (drow and tiefling spring to mind; tiefling is better for the lower LA), Drow of the Underdark with some extra dark goods (the darkness-based feats) and Tome of Magic. Any ideas on how to mix and match tiefling/drow, darkness feats and this class? I was actually thinking (gasp!) Soulknife as there is a tiefling soulknife in my game but this is really just an exercise. On the darkness side, you might want to pick up a level or three of warlock if you're planning on using the darkness feats from Drow of the Underdark. They can pick up darkness at will as a spell-like ability, and those feats don't require it as a racial ability-- just as a spell-like ability. I particularly like that with the feat that lets you hide in plain sight so long as you have magical darkness available. With regards to Shadowblade, I would probably cut it off at level 8 so you're not losing additional base attack bonus. Maybe something like Ranger 2/Warlock 4/Shadowblade 8 to start, taking darkness, eldritch glaive (particularly if your DM is nice enough to allow you to manifest your shadowblade powers with it), and baleful utterance as your invocations. You could finish up with guerilla warrior or something with actual sneak attack damage so you can add that in. If you're still playing drow or tiefling, you would also need to make it ranger 3/warlock 3 to start. (And technically the feat is Shadow Blade and the class is Shadowblade ;))
#17 acereraklives Jun 17, 2009 0:39:12	Balthanon beat me to the punch as far as warlocks go Here's a fun little build that might work well with the shadows motiff: Human Rogue 1/Warlock 2/Rogue +2/Swashbuckler 15 Stuff at 20: BAB +17, SA of 9d6+20, delivered by a 1d6 eldritch blast touch attack. 1st char: Darkstalker or Able Learner 1st human: Craven 3rd char: Instinctive Darkness 6th char: Blend into Shadows 9th char: Daring Outlaw 12th char: Intensify Darkness 15th char: Open 18th char: Open Warlock invocations: Darkness and Devil Eyes Also, Assassin might work well with this tactic, especially if you have 60" darkness and can observe your opponents, cackling maliciously from the shadows...
#18 arz Jun 17, 2009 14:56:02	Darkness @ will you say. How about 3 racial HD w/ +0 LA? Derro are quite the unique race. I can't find any other racial HD races w/ a +0 LA. They are fun to throw out as low CR villains but I've never found an interesting concept to put one in a game as a player. Looked at the "drow" feats but I've never found a build that I could use to cap them with derro. Sorry drow lovers but derro are just better at every lvl that stays out of the light.:P
#19 true_shinken Jun 17, 2009 15:18:04	Darkness @ will you say. How about 3 racial HD w/ +0 LA? Derro are quite the unique race. I can't find any other racial HD races w/ a +0 LA. They are fun to throw out as low CR villains but I've never found an interesting concept to put one in a game as a player. Looked at the "drow" feats but I've never found a build that I could use to cap them with derro. Sorry drow lovers but derro are just better at every lvl that stays out of the light.:P Sane derro have LA +2 to go with their 3HD and insane derro are not playable.