Level 1 campaign, probable combat cleric(3.5) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Level 1 campaign, probable combat cleric(3.5)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
jenos
Nov 16, 2008 4:06:02 I'm about to start a level 1 campaign. All my friends/party members and the DM are stressing that I play a healer cleric, though I'm leery at the prospect. Our party is currently a Monk/Rogue/Wizard/Barbarian.

While I'm fine with playing a cleric, I'm not sure if going healbot is the best way to improve on this party(or even fun). I was thinking about going melee cleric instead, though I'm not sure how to build him.

As for material available, I have access to pretty much anything 3.5 with the exception of psionics. However, I'd have to justify any FR or Eberron materials I take, so I'm trying to shy away from those things(But I can pull in a FR domain for instance without much trouble).

With a stat layout of 16 15 14 14 13 12, what would you suggest I go for a combat cleric that will have to heal at least somewhat. Its going to be a bit of a slow paced campaign, so while planning for long term PrC are fine, I'm not looking to be very powerful at level 15 if it means I don't do much earlier on.

On the other hand, if any of you think other classes would work fine feel free to tell me. I'm going cleric because I think it would benefit the group the most, but if you guys feel something else would work, I'm all ears.

Thanks
#2
marcb
Nov 16, 2008 7:34:01 Lately, I have been liking Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Ordained Champion 2/Prestige Paladin 3/Knight of the Raven 10.

The final effects are 17th lvl casting, 17 BAB, 17th lvl turning, tons of feats, and thanks to ordained champ you can use turn undead to smite for Cha to hit and turning lvl to damage, which is as good as a 17th lvl paladin except you can smite anything not just evil.
#3
Senevri
Nov 16, 2008 9:47:45 If you can't buy CLW or lesser vigor wands, splurge on Craft Wand feat. Healing sucks, largely. Best core cleric spells in first level are probably curses - especially if combined with boosts. Bless + Bane changes the balance of a single encounter significantly, already.

Combat Medic is not bad.
#4
innabinder
Nov 16, 2008 11:33:35 If you have Tome of Battle, consider Crusader. It can easily provide small healing bursts mid-combat (which is what players clamoring for healbots actually want, usually) while still getting off attacks. Crusader/Cleric into Ruby Knight Vindicator fulfills that role extraordinarily well. If Wee Jas isn't your style, talk to the DM about a re-flavoring of RKV.
#5
jenos
Nov 16, 2008 19:11:34 Crusader Cleric actually seems pretty handy, and fits fairly well as a charismatic leader that bolsters his allies with both healing, direct and through his offensive actions.

However, will the healing offered by crusader be effective? Would you suggest going Cleric a couple levels then multiclassing into Crusader, or something else? Also crusader manuvears only seem effective very early for healing, am I missing other, later options that heal more?

Also, since we're starting this campaign from level 1, won't it be a few levels before we have access to a wand of CLW, meaning if we even have a UMD user it will be quite a while till we can use it, right?
#6
innabinder
Nov 16, 2008 20:15:20
Crusader Cleric actually seems pretty handy, and fits fairly well as a charismatic leader that bolsters his allies with both healing, direct and through his offensive actions.

However, will the healing offered by crusader be effective? Would you suggest going Cleric a couple levels then multiclassing into Crusader, or something else? Also crusader manuvears only seem effective very early for healing, am I missing other, later options that heal more?

Also, since we're starting this campaign from level 1, won't it be a few levels before we have access to a wand of CLW, meaning if we even have a UMD user it will be quite a while till we can use it, right?

1) As far as in-combat healing is concerned, Crusader is more than ample. Spending actual actions in combat just to heal wounds is wasting actions, because your heals can't match the damage output of your enemy, and your enemy isn't getting any closer to defeat by your actions. Cleric 2/Crusader 2 then alternating Cleric/Crusader works fine, and gets you 2nd level maneuvers with your 1st Crusader level - though obviously you'd take a 1st level stance.
2) CLW or Lesser Vigor (better) wands cost little enough that your party should be able to afford to buy one by the time they're 2nd level, assuming standard wealth by level guidelines. Divided 5 ways, it's trivial gp, really. If every member of your party doesn't have 150gp long before you hit 2nd level, you're playing with a very low-wealth or tight-fisted DM style. Until then, you'll be able to convert some left-over spell slots at the end of the day into CLW or CMiW sufficient to keep everyone healthy, with even a minimal investment in Heal skill to support it.
#7
jenos
Nov 17, 2008 4:06:21 I'm definitely going to go for a cleric->crusader->RKV, thanks for the suggestion. While RKV is a bit off from the feel I wanted my character to have, a white raven/devoted spirit crusader cleric feels really close to what I wanted. I'm sure if I can try to get a reflavoring of RKV though to fit my character.

What race/feats would you suggest for this chaarcter then? Do you think I should be focusing on picking up the fighter combat feats, e.g. power attack, or going in a different vein entirely? I'm not too familiar with what tome of battle offers, while I have access too it and read a little in it I'm still not overly familiar with manueavers and what feats to get in regards to them.
#8
innabinder
Nov 17, 2008 17:38:08 Human is pretty much the default answer for 'what's the best race', barring special circumstances. I recommend checking this thread and this archived thread for good advice on Crusader and RKV, to start. Devoted Spirit and especially White Raven are solid maneuver choices, as is Iron Heart.

While there are a number of ways to go with Crusader/Cleric, Crusader makes a very good charge-monkey. Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper is, as always, a sound start in that direction.

Good luck!
#9
Endarire
Nov 19, 2008 19:22:04 Spell-Heavy RKV
Crusader1/Cleric3/Church Inquisitor1/RKV10/Contemplative+5

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 jenos Nov 16, 2008 4:06:02	I'm about to start a level 1 campaign. All my friends/party members and the DM are stressing that I play a healer cleric, though I'm leery at the prospect. Our party is currently a Monk/Rogue/Wizard/Barbarian. While I'm fine with playing a cleric, I'm not sure if going healbot is the best way to improve on this party(or even fun). I was thinking about going melee cleric instead, though I'm not sure how to build him. As for material available, I have access to pretty much anything 3.5 with the exception of psionics. However, I'd have to justify any FR or Eberron materials I take, so I'm trying to shy away from those things(But I can pull in a FR domain for instance without much trouble). With a stat layout of 16 15 14 14 13 12, what would you suggest I go for a combat cleric that will have to heal at least somewhat. Its going to be a bit of a slow paced campaign, so while planning for long term PrC are fine, I'm not looking to be very powerful at level 15 if it means I don't do much earlier on. On the other hand, if any of you think other classes would work fine feel free to tell me. I'm going cleric because I think it would benefit the group the most, but if you guys feel something else would work, I'm all ears. Thanks
#2 marcb Nov 16, 2008 7:34:01	Lately, I have been liking Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 2/Ordained Champion 2/Prestige Paladin 3/Knight of the Raven 10. The final effects are 17th lvl casting, 17 BAB, 17th lvl turning, tons of feats, and thanks to ordained champ you can use turn undead to smite for Cha to hit and turning lvl to damage, which is as good as a 17th lvl paladin except you can smite anything not just evil.
#3 Senevri Nov 16, 2008 9:47:45	If you can't buy CLW or lesser vigor wands, splurge on Craft Wand feat. Healing sucks, largely. Best core cleric spells in first level are probably curses - especially if combined with boosts. Bless + Bane changes the balance of a single encounter significantly, already. Combat Medic is not bad.
#4 innabinder Nov 16, 2008 11:33:35	If you have Tome of Battle, consider Crusader. It can easily provide small healing bursts mid-combat (which is what players clamoring for healbots actually want, usually) while still getting off attacks. Crusader/Cleric into Ruby Knight Vindicator fulfills that role extraordinarily well. If Wee Jas isn't your style, talk to the DM about a re-flavoring of RKV.
#5 jenos Nov 16, 2008 19:11:34	Crusader Cleric actually seems pretty handy, and fits fairly well as a charismatic leader that bolsters his allies with both healing, direct and through his offensive actions. However, will the healing offered by crusader be effective? Would you suggest going Cleric a couple levels then multiclassing into Crusader, or something else? Also crusader manuvears only seem effective very early for healing, am I missing other, later options that heal more? Also, since we're starting this campaign from level 1, won't it be a few levels before we have access to a wand of CLW, meaning if we even have a UMD user it will be quite a while till we can use it, right?
#6 innabinder Nov 16, 2008 20:15:20	Crusader Cleric actually seems pretty handy, and fits fairly well as a charismatic leader that bolsters his allies with both healing, direct and through his offensive actions. However, will the healing offered by crusader be effective? Would you suggest going Cleric a couple levels then multiclassing into Crusader, or something else? Also crusader manuvears only seem effective very early for healing, am I missing other, later options that heal more? Also, since we're starting this campaign from level 1, won't it be a few levels before we have access to a wand of CLW, meaning if we even have a UMD user it will be quite a while till we can use it, right? 1) As far as in-combat healing is concerned, Crusader is more than ample. Spending actual actions in combat just to heal wounds is wasting actions, because your heals can't match the damage output of your enemy, and your enemy isn't getting any closer to defeat by your actions. Cleric 2/Crusader 2 then alternating Cleric/Crusader works fine, and gets you 2nd level maneuvers with your 1st Crusader level - though obviously you'd take a 1st level stance. 2) CLW or Lesser Vigor (better) wands cost little enough that your party should be able to afford to buy one by the time they're 2nd level, assuming standard wealth by level guidelines. Divided 5 ways, it's trivial gp, really. If every member of your party doesn't have 150gp long before you hit 2nd level, you're playing with a very low-wealth or tight-fisted DM style. Until then, you'll be able to convert some left-over spell slots at the end of the day into CLW or CMiW sufficient to keep everyone healthy, with even a minimal investment in Heal skill to support it.
#7 jenos Nov 17, 2008 4:06:21	I'm definitely going to go for a cleric->crusader->RKV, thanks for the suggestion. While RKV is a bit off from the feel I wanted my character to have, a white raven/devoted spirit crusader cleric feels really close to what I wanted. I'm sure if I can try to get a reflavoring of RKV though to fit my character. What race/feats would you suggest for this chaarcter then? Do you think I should be focusing on picking up the fighter combat feats, e.g. power attack, or going in a different vein entirely? I'm not too familiar with what tome of battle offers, while I have access too it and read a little in it I'm still not overly familiar with manueavers and what feats to get in regards to them.
#8 innabinder Nov 17, 2008 17:38:08	Human is pretty much the default answer for 'what's the best race', barring special circumstances. I recommend checking this thread and this archived thread for good advice on Crusader and RKV, to start. Devoted Spirit and especially White Raven are solid maneuver choices, as is Iron Heart. While there are a number of ways to go with Crusader/Cleric, Crusader makes a very good charge-monkey. Power Attack/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper is, as always, a sound start in that direction. Good luck!
#9 Endarire Nov 19, 2008 19:22:04	Spell-Heavy RKV Crusader1/Cleric3/Church Inquisitor1/RKV10/Contemplative+5