Level 12 Optimization Challenge

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

damien_wilacoth

Jul 10, 2010 9:55:31
Hello everyone - the challenge for today is a level 12 character versus a standard Tarrasque.

DM gave me a scroll of Wish and 84,000 gp, with no more than 30% being spent on a single item.  The stats I have to work with are fairly high 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, and 13.  All WotC material is usable.  Two flaws and two traits allowed.

The basic idea I had was for a Wizard of some sort that stays out of range and pelts him with blasting spells.

Alternatively, I had a weird idea for a Mounted Archer that rode a flying creature of some sort (griffon, roc, dragon) and knock it out that way.  So... basically the wizard idea, except physically and with help.

Suggestions?
#2

carnivore

Jul 10, 2010 13:23:14
i have an Archer build that might work ok for this:

brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...

just bring it down to 12th lvl .... like this:

Super Bat the Archer...ECL 12
Anthropomorphic Bat ... (+0 LA,Small size, +6 Wis,-4 Str,-2 Cha, Fly 20'(Average))

Cloistered Cleric 1/ Soulknife 2/ Fighter 2/ Soulbow 7

5 Str(9 base - 4 racial)
18 Dex(14 base +4 gloves)
10 Con(10 base)
14 Int(14 base)
30 Wis(17 base +3 lvls +6 Racial +4 amulet)
6 Cha(8 base -2 racial)

Domains: Elf .... gain Point Blank Shot
Time ... gain Imp Initiative
Knowledge ... give up Domain access to gain Knowledge Devotion


feat progression:
Cloistered Cleric 1 ........... Education, Point blank shot, Knowledge Devotion, Imp Initiative
Soulknife 1 .................... Wild Talent, Weapon Focus(Mindblade)
Fighter 1 ...................... Improved Flight(average>Good), Rapid Shot
Soulknife 2
Fighter 2 ...................... Precise Shot
Soulbow 1..................... Mountain Warrior, Zen Archery
Soulbow 2
Soulbow 3..................... Bowslinger
Soulbow 4..................... Improved Flight(good>Perfect)
Soulbow 5..................... Woodland Archer
Soulbow 6
Soulbow 7..................... Many Shot , Imp Rapid Shot


BAB 8+2(Soulbow) = +10
full Attack: +34 = +10 BAB +10 Wis +2 Competence + 1 haste +1 PBS +1 WpF +1 higher ground +1 size+ 2 enhancement(bane bonus) +5 Insight(Knowledge Dev)


Full round Attack: +34/+34/+34/+29


damage: 34 per Mind Arrow =Mind arrow 1d6(3.5) +10 Wis +1 Competence +5 Insight +4 Enhancement(bane)+2d6(bane)(7)+ 1d6(3.5)(Elemental:flaming,etc)


items:
16000gp +4 Amulet of Wis
16000gp +4 Gloves of Dex
25000gp Greater Bracers of Archery
13000gp Monks Belt
12000gp boots of Speed
2500gp Eyes of the Eagle
2000gp Handy Haversack


................ 86500gp spent:

Laughing

#3

lycanthrope0

Jul 10, 2010 13:56:20
your right the key to the tarrasque is flight anything you can do to get enough damage a round in to beat its fast healing and what not and you should be fine.  just remember if you go blasting spells you will want a ring of wizardry 4 so you can use orbs ( they get past its magical defense ).  i think you have to stay at about 60 feat above it to be out of range of any type of attack but i would have to look at the jump check and rules again i havent used them in a while
#4

damien_wilacoth

Jul 11, 2010 1:21:01
i have an Archer build that might work ok for this:

brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.p...

just bring it down to 12th lvl .... like this:

Super Bat the Archer...ECL 12
Anthropomorphic Bat ... (+0 LA,Small size, +6 Wis,-4 Str,-2 Cha, Fly 20'(Average))

Cloistered Cleric 1/ Soulknife 2/ Fighter 2/ Soulbow 7

5 Str(9 base - 4 racial)
18 Dex(14 base +4 gloves)
10 Con(10 base)
14 Int(14 base)
30 Wis(17 base +3 lvls +6 Racial +4 amulet)
6 Cha(8 base -2 racial)

Domains: Elf .... gain Point Blank Shot
Time ... gain Imp Initiative
Knowledge ... give up Domain access to gain Knowledge Devotion


feat progression:
Cloistered Cleric 1 ........... Education, Point blank shot, Knowledge Devotion, Imp Initiative
Soulknife 1 .................... Wild Talent, Weapon Focus(Mindblade)
Fighter 1 ...................... Improved Flight(average>Good), Rapid Shot
Soulknife 2
Fighter 2 ...................... Precise Shot
Soulbow 1..................... Mountain Warrior, Zen Archery
Soulbow 2
Soulbow 3..................... Bowslinger
Soulbow 4..................... Improved Flight(good>Perfect)
Soulbow 5..................... Woodland Archer
Soulbow 6
Soulbow 7..................... Many Shot , Imp Rapid Shot


BAB 8+2(Soulbow) = +10
full Attack: +34 = +10 BAB +10 Wis +2 Competence + 1 haste +1 PBS +1 WpF +1 higher ground +1 size+ 2 enhancement(bane bonus) +5 Insight(Knowledge Dev)


Full round Attack: +34/+34/+34/+29


damage: 34 per Mind Arrow =Mind arrow 1d6(3.5) +10 Wis +1 Competence +5 Insight +4 Enhancement(bane)+2d6(bane)(7)+ 1d6(3.5)(Elemental:flaming,etc)


items:
16000gp +4 Amulet of Wis
16000gp +4 Gloves of Dex
25000gp Greater Bracers of Archery
13000gp Monks Belt
12000gp boots of Speed
2500gp Eyes of the Eagle
2000gp Handy Haversack


................ 86500gp spent:




84,000 gp limit

Also... no Pixie? Tongue out
#5

tr0llman

Jul 11, 2010 2:41:55
your right the key to the tarrasque is flight anything you can do to get enough damage a round in to beat its fast healing and what not and you should be fine.  just remember if you go blasting spells you will want a ring of wizardry 4 so you can use orbs ( they get past its magical defense ).  i think you have to stay at about 60 feat above it to be out of range of any type of attack but i would have to look at the jump check and rules again i havent used them in a while



As a blaster, you would also have to contend with the carapace - the Big T is immune to rays, lines and cones. 
#6

lycanthrope0

Jul 11, 2010 9:26:57
your right the key to the tarrasque is flight anything you can do to get enough damage a round in to beat its fast healing and what not and you should be fine.  just remember if you go blasting spells you will want a ring of wizardry 4 so you can use orbs ( they get past its magical defense ).  i think you have to stay at about 60 feat above it to be out of range of any type of attack but i would have to look at the jump check and rules again i havent used them in a while



As a blaster, you would also have to contend with the carapace - the Big T is immune to rays, lines and cones. 



hence why i mentioned the orb spells.  they are instaneos conjurations with no sr so they get by it
#7

carnivore

Jul 11, 2010 14:09:42


84,000 gp limit

Also... no Pixie?



easy just get rid of:

2500gp Eyes of the Eagle
2000gp Handy Haversack

could also remove the Monks Belt, as it wont make any difference for this contest .... get some other items(potions of Speed, or other Speed boosting items)

does not affect the performance of the Build .... with an UNLIMITED supply of Ammo  and flight... you should have no problem ..... it may take some time but you will succeed

for this you need more Raw damage than you can get from a Pixie Build .... otherwise i might have done it .... if stealth was needed it would be a different story

remember all you have to do is:

1)hit AC 35 ..... my build does that with every attack on a one, except the last(on a 6 or better0
2)overcome DR 15/EPIC.... means mine only does 19 damage per hit = 76 damage/round
3)do enough damage to beat his Regeneration 40 ..... which reduces the total damage to 36 damage/round for my build

with 858 hp .... 24 rounds of combat = 864 damage, on the 25th round of combat it will be below -10 hp.... but you need someone to cast Wish to keep it dead(or UMD with Scroll of Wish)

Laughing
#8

lycanthrope0

Jul 11, 2010 17:40:10


84,000 gp limit

Also... no Pixie?



easy just get rid of:

2500gp Eyes of the Eagle
2000gp Handy Haversack

could also remove the Monks Belt, as it wont make any difference for this contest .... get some other items(potions of Speed, or other Speed boosting items)

does not affect the performance of the Build .... with an UNLIMITED supply of Ammo  and flight... you should have no problem ..... it may take some time but you will succeed

for this you need more Raw damage than you can get from a Pixie Build .... otherwise i might have done it .... if stealth was needed it would be a different story

remember all you have to do is:

1)hit AC 35 ..... my build does that with every attack on a one, except the last(on a 6 or better0
2)overcome DR 15/EPIC.... means mine only does 19 damage per hit = 76 damage/round
3)do enough damage to beat his Regeneration 40 ..... which reduces the total damage to 36 damage/round for my build

with 858 hp .... 24 rounds of combat = 864 damage, on the 25th round of combat it will be below -10 hp.... but you need someone to cast Wish to keep it dead(or UMD with Scroll of Wish)




try 50th you have to deal the hp damage into the negatives not just down to -10 but it still works
#9

carnivore

Jul 11, 2010 18:28:27

try 50th you have to deal the hp damage into the negatives not just down to -10 but it still works



not sure where you are coming from on that? ..... notice:

quoting from the SRD, Tarrasque entry:
"Regeneration (Ex): No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability. The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead."

my build can do it in 25 rounds by itself ..... maybe you were thinking of a previous edition

Laughing

#10

lycanthrope0

Jul 11, 2010 21:40:42

try 50th you have to deal the hp damage into the negatives not just down to -10 but it still works



not sure where you are coming from on that? ..... notice:

quoting from the SRD, Tarrasque entry:
"Regeneration (Ex): No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability. The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead."

my build can do it in 25 rounds by itself ..... maybe you were thinking of a previous edition






no for some reason i was thinking the base hp was higher than 400ish since i have had casters with 350+ at 20th level.  it just seems low if you ask me
#11

phaedrusxy

Jul 13, 2010 14:35:12
Cleric 12. Command an Allip and sick it on the tarrasque, hide in the ground (Meld into Stone), use scroll, profit.
#12

damien_wilacoth

Jul 13, 2010 19:40:32
Cleric 12. Command an Allip and sick it on the tarrasque, hide in the ground (Meld into Stone), use scroll, profit.



I had actually considered that - ability drain, ftw, indeed.

#13

carnivore

Jul 19, 2010 16:19:27
except this:


TARRASQUE
Colossal Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 48d10+594 (858 hp)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares)
Armor Class: 35 (–8 size, +3 Dex, +30 natural), touch 5, flat-footed 32
Base Attack/Grapple: +48/+81
Attack: Bite +57 melee (4d8+17/18–20/x3)
Full Attack: Bite +57 melee (4d8+17/18–20/x3) and 2 horns +52 melee (1d10+8) and 2 claws +52 melee (1d12+8) and tail slap +52 melee (3d8+8)
Space/Reach: 30 ft./20 ft.
Special Attacks: Augmented critical, frightful presence, improved grab, rush, swallow whole
Special Qualities: Carapace, damage reduction 15/epic, immunity to fire, poison, disease, energy drain, and ability damage, regeneration 40, scent, spell resistance 32



the Allip works because it is Ability Drain ... not damage ... Shivering Touch is Ability Damage

Laughing
#14

7he_professor

Jul 19, 2010 16:34:22
Touche'.  Post deleted.
#15

rydi123

Jul 19, 2010 19:11:04
Too lazy to post a full build here, but something like:

Race: Human
Abilities: STR>Everything else, followed by int/cha for skills and umd activation, then con for frenzy duration
Classes: rogue 1/cloistered cleric 1/ranger 2/fighter 2/Lion whirling frenzy Barbarian 1/warblade 5
Feats: able learner, stormguard warrior, twf, craven, power attack, knowledge devotion, travel devotion, favored power attack, Telling blow, Snap kick, Imp. Unarmed Strike
Skills: Knowledges, UMD
Items: Gloves of the Balanced Hand, 2 x +1 Keen scimitars, scroll/potion of enlarge person, scroll of greater invis, wand of extended wraithstrike, scroll/potion of haste


0)Drink potions, activate scrolls/wands, activate knowledge devotion
1)Activate frenzy, Pounce (combat rhythm, 7 attacks), stay 5 feet away to avoid scent (using reach from enlarge person), travel domain away as a swift action
2)toggle on favored power attack, Pounce (7 touch attacks: 1d6 + FPA + Knowledge Dev + Combat Rhythm + [Craven + 1d6 on crits]... Odds are 1.5 ish crits with the scimitars per full attack), run away using travel domain as a swift action
3)Rinse, repeat.
4)Use wish to perma-kill

For extra protection, do it all while incorporeal (can't smell things on different planes) and wielding g.touching weapons.
#16

damien_wilacoth

Jul 20, 2010 9:57:44
A million thanks for the responses.  I used the Cleric 12 and knocked the Tarrasque out within 2 rounds.

The DM, in a fit of amusement, has allowed me a 'challenge': a level 20 gestalt versus a draconic heritage Tarrasque of Legend Paragon with some native spellcasting.
#17

ashern

Jul 20, 2010 11:01:02
For the level 20 challenge, tell him you'll do it non gestalt and pull out The Colossus of War. Laughing
#18

lycanthrope0

Jul 20, 2010 22:25:49
For the level 20 challenge, tell him you'll do it non gestalt and pull out The Colossus of War.



or you can put the colossus of war on one side and something extremely silly on the other like the chaingun fighter or a wizard3/master specialist 10/ initate of the seven fold viel

you know just to double up the fun
#19

steelblue

Jul 20, 2010 22:38:03
Nah, you gotta go for something that requires little feat support. Like, say... druid10/planar shepherd10.
#20

death_isthe_begining

Jul 22, 2010 13:00:51
Couldn't you just hit it with a quickened death spell and a normal death spell then use wish the following round? You can probably use a build that pumps the spell DC through the roof. I mean according to the SRD that Carnivore quoted a death spell does 868 nonlethal damage to the Tarasque.



quoting from the SRD, Tarrasque entry:
"Regeneration (Ex): No form of attack deals lethal damage to the tarrasque. The tarrasque regenerates even if it fails a saving throw against a disintegrate spell or a death effect. If the tarrasque fails its save against a spell or effect that would kill it instantly (such as those mentioned above), the spell or effect instead deals nonlethal damage equal to the creature’s full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hp). The tarrasque is immune to effects that produce incurable or bleeding wounds, such as mummy rot, a sword with the wounding special ability, or a clay golem’s cursed wound ability. The tarrasque can be slain only by raising its nonlethal damage total to its full normal hit points +10 (or 868 hit points) and using a wish or miracle spell to keep it dead."




Heck with a Belt of Battle you could probably kill it in 1 round.