So my group is starting up an epic level gesalt campaign (levels 20 to 30). I've luckily been given the position of party mage. However, I have no idea on how to best optimize this build.
The restrictions are that we can only use Core, Complete Divine, Complete Champion, Complete Arcane, and Complete Scoundrel for classes, spells, feats, etc. However, the DM did say that I could use spells from the Spell Compendium.
Probably the biggest restricition is that I can't bleed over to the other positions too much (just arcane spells).
Thanks for any and all help!
For your barred schools, I would choose enchantment and illusion. At high levels you're going to have a hard time getting the few monsters not immune to those schools to fail their saving throws.
Alternatively, if you want to be a bit more of a tank, I would choose a barbarian 21//conjurer 21. This build has the bonuses of having a good HP, a good BAB, and two good saves.
The Warlock idea is pretty neat. The problem with the other builds is that my character can only have classes that cast arcane spells (or invocations in the warlock's case). Any suggestions there?
Also, wouldn't it be better to not go straight wizard? To put some prcs in its place? Which ones are good for a conjurer (which is the way I was planning on going)?
Thanks
To be totally honest, I would definitely not take Barbarian, Fighter or Warlock at all. Or perhaps that is too harsh a way to put it, but at least do not sacrifice a single level of Wizard casting for them. Here's where I'm coming from with this idea of mine: At level twenty, you will not run out of spells as a Wizard even if you are not a Focused specialist. Just make that intelligence score of yours count.
Since your job seems to be the party Wizard, let's get right to optimising a decent Wizard for you. The lack of Complete Mage makes this build slightly less viable, but we can make do very well.
Abjurer 5/Mindbender 1/Abjurer 2/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 4 is a good start for you. Specialises in dispelling and counterspelling, although you cannot get Divine defiance, which sort of sucks. Nevertheless, you are still a Wizard, so this should not be a problem. On the other side of the gestalt, pile up Rogue, Ranger and Fighter to get some decent hit points and excellent skill selections. Evasion is a decent catch as well.
You need Spell focus (Abjuration), Greater spell focus (Abjuration) and Skill focus (Spellcraft) and another Spell focus for the build. Then grab Elven spell lore and whatever you wish.
Another approach would be making a Bard/Sublime Chord, but that is another story.
wizard / scorcer is a very strong option
wizard / scorcer is a very strong option
If you do this, I recommend you pick the spells you will use a lot with the sorcerer side, and more unusual, or utility type, spells with the wizard side.
I've been leaning more and more towards a sorcerer/wizard combo. Any suggested prcs? I think Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil looks nice. I'm trying to stay away from archmage as of now because I'd like to make the epic spells my spell-like abilities once I start getting some of them.
It depends on what you want. You can go a straight base class on one side and jump through PrC's on the other to pick up the most abilities. Or you can max out one base class and one PrC (10 levels) pre-epic so you get twice the number of bonus epic feats. I would go with the second, but that is a personal preference.
I would go Wizard 20// Spell theif 1/ Bard 9/Sublime Chord 10
The key is the 1 level of spell thief and the feat Master SpellThief from Complete Scoundrel. The feat lets you add all of your arcane spell casting class levels together for your caster level and your ability to steal spells as a spell thief. Classes that advance spells do not count, just class levels with spells. You can further tweak the build, by adding in more PrC's, but it may reduce your caster level. Alternatively, you could drop the spell thief and go:
Wizard 20//Bard 5/PrC's 5/Sublime Chord 10
Sublime chord sets your caster level to its level plus the levels in one other caster class (wizard). This gives you a caster level of 30 and allows for more PrC's levels. You can further boost your caster level by +4 with the sublime chord bardic music a number of times a day.
Maybe make those PrC's Mindbender 1/ Geometer 2/Fatespinner 2
Mindbender for telepathy, Geometer for spells that take only 1 page in a spell book (Get Boccobs blessed book and every spell), Fatespinner for one free reroll a day.
if u stick with a sorceror/wizard combo then taking ultimate magus would make u pretty broken
(wotc suggest against dual progression prcs for gesalt)
This will let u get full caster level with max spells very early
With the extra levels you would gain from this, you can take another arcane caster role
I would suggest sublime chord, just for more spells
If ur sick with having so many spells, and like some all day buffs, then perhaps warlock would be a way to go
(I would like to see a gesalt Ultimate Magus/Eldritch Theurge, that would be pretty awsome)
What I think:
Sorc 3/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Escalation Mage 6/ Mindbender 1// Wizard 3/ Warlock 7/ Eldritch Theurge 7/ Hellfire Warlock 3
In this build, you get to litter whatever magic u want with some free metamagic (escalation)
stack on some AoE spells to ur eldritch blast, and get to put some eldritch essence onto ur spells
get 20th level sorceror
get 20th level wizard
get 17th level warlock (warlock's Cha synergyze nicely with sorceror)
one can also do this with cleric, but MAD would be a very serious issue
if u stick with a sorceror/wizard combo then taking ultimate magus would make u pretty broken
(wotc suggest against dual progression prcs for gesalt)
This will let u get full caster level with max spells very early
With the extra levels you would gain from this, you can take another arcane caster role
I would suggest sublime chord, just for more spells
If ur sick with having so many spells, and like some all day buffs, then perhaps warlock would be a way to go
(I would like to see a gesalt Ultimate Magus/Eldritch Theurge, that would be pretty awsome)What I think:
Sorc 3/ Ultimate Magus 10/ Escalation Mage 6/ Mindbender 1// Wizard 3/ Warlock 7/ Eldritch Theurge 7/ Hellfire Warlock 3
In this build, you get to litter whatever magic u want with some free metamagic (escalation)
stack on some AoE spells to ur eldritch blast, and get to put some eldritch essence onto ur spells
get 20th level sorceror
get 20th level wizard
get 17th level warlock (warlock's Cha synergyze nicely with sorceror)
one can also do this with cleric, but MAD would be a very serious issue
The build is illegal; you can't have two PrCs at the same time.
Also, dual-progression PrCs should be prohibited for a reason - it smells of very bad cheese.
wizard / scorcer is a very strong option
Not really. You have MAD and no gestalt synergy whatsoever: neither HP, saves, skill points nor the skill lists benefit from it. You don't even gain access to spells off the S/W list.
Wizard//Beguiler is much better (assuming that PHB2 does count as core), removing MAD entirely and giving you excellent skills with a higher HD and the ability to auto-overcome SR, which is very handy for a caster.
Heck, even Wizard//Cleric or Wizard//Favored Soul (weaker but simpler) are better.
For something completely different, you could try a Wizard//Ranger with two levels of Arcane Archer on the Ranger side.
This goes in a different direction, but:
See if you can get CW approved, and go:
Wizard 20/ Rogue 3/ Swash 17 with "daring outlaw"
control their movement and summon your own flankers.
just a thought.
Only using classes with arcane casting from those sources is a severe restriction. Are you able to use the battle sorcerer variant from the SRD? That seems to be one of very few ways to get your attack bonus and hit points up. If you can draw variants from more sources, you could also consider stalwart sorcerer from Complete Mage. Those two together effectively give you d12 hit dice for your sorcerer levels.
If you do go with sorcerer//wizard, you should only use spells that allow saves with one class. That way, you only really need a 19 for one of your casting stats and you can focus wholly on the other.
If your DM turns out to be amenable to class variants, you might want to look at domain wizard (SRD) and spontaneous divination (Complete Champion).
I was looking up the Ghestalt rules, I can't seem to find anything that says you can't have two PrC at the same time, only things that allude to saying that you can invent even more ballin' PrC's that take up both "class" slots from Ghestalt.
Monk/Wizard anyone? Take Carmedine Monk (Champions of Valour) to gain some int synergy, and enjoy being one of the hardest to hit around - not to mention that polymorphing with this build becomes devastating...
Wizard/Druid if you want to be broken, this one speaks for itself.
Wizard/Cleric for persistened spells, and to add insult to injury, Incantatrix on the wizard side for persistant spells on both classes.
Anyway, this all depends on what you want to play.. Gish? Caster? Blaster?
I was looking up the Ghestalt rules, I can't seem to find anything that says you can't have two PrC at the same time, only things that allude to saying that you can invent even more ballin' PrC's that take up both "class" slots from Ghestalt.
Check the third bullet point under the heading class features in the gestalt rules.
It really depends on what exacly you want to play
For a Damage-Dealer, I suggest Warlock 20, Rouge3 /Swashbuckler17 with Daring outlaw, the classical "Sniper"
For a more versatile combination, take 20 levels of Wizard and other levels as Dips in e.g. Mindbender, Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil and maybe Rouge for the first 5 levels.
You could also combine Wizard or Sorcerer with a mighty race such as Mindflayer.
I'd like to ask one question: What happens if you have only one spellcasting class and take a level in a class with spells per day "+1 level of existing spellcasting class"
?
In my experience, setting up a gestalt character is a matter of synergy, blending two classes so that they are more than the sum of their parts.
Considering you want to play a mage, have you considered Wizard/Factotum for near-total SAD and being able to cast multiple spells per turn at higher levels without arcane fusion and quicken spell using Cunning Surge?
getting more actions is pretty important in high level games. see if you can get swiftblade from the wizards' website approved. use wizard on the other side of the gestalt to keep wizard caster level at 20. wizard 6/ swifblade 10/ arcane prestige 4// wizard 4/ other base class