Darkvision
Furious counterstrike (delayed damage pool / 5 = +hit/dmg)
Indomitable Soul (CH to Will)
Steely Resolve 5 (delayed damage pool)
Zealous Surge (1 ST reroll / day)
AC
21 (10 Base, 5 Chain Shirt + 1, 3 Dexterity, 4 Natural, -1 Large)
Alignment
Chaotic / Neutral
Attack
+9 (Spiked Chain +1, Trip = Touch Attack Action)
Attacks of Opportunity
4, everytime an opponent moves or stands up in a threatened square (20ft reach)
Attributes (30 point buy)
ST 14+6+2=22
KO 12+2=16
DE 16-2+1+1=16
WI 8
CH 8-2=6
IN 16-2=14
BAB 3
Classes
Crusader 3
Damage
2D6+10
Equipment (8450/9000g)
Belt of Ogre Power +2 (4000g)
Chain Shirt +1 (1100g)
Gloves of Dexterity +1 (1000g)
Spiked Chain +1 (2350g)
Feats
Improved Trip (Level 1)
Combat Expertise (Level 3)
EWP: Spiked Chain (Flaw: -2 ranged)
Combat Reflexes (Flaw: -2 Fort Save)
Feat Wishlist
Stone Power* (Level 6 unlearn @ 7, Page 32)
Martial Stance (Level 7 retrain, Thicket of Blades, Page 61)
Stand Still*
Extra Granted Maneuver
Mage Slayer*
Defensive Sweep
Hitpoints
D10 = 35 HP (Houserule: Full HD +5 @ Level 1, the others Average)
Maneuvers
Devoted Spirit, Stone Dragon, White Raven
6 Known, 5 Readied, 2 Granted
1. Leading the Attack (Allies +4 to hit, White Raven, Level 1, Page 91)
2* Crusader Strike (Heal 1W6+3, Devoted Spirit, Level 1, Page 58)
3* Stone Bones (5/Adamantine, Stone Dragon, Level 1, Page 84)
4* Vanguard Strike (Allies +4 to hit, Devoted Spirit, Level 1, Page 62)
5* Foe Hammer (+2D6 dmg no DR, Devoted Spirit, Level 2, Page 59)
6* Mountain Hammer (+2D6 dmg no DR, Stone Dragon, Level 2, Page 84)
Race
Half Ogre (RoD)
Saving Throws
Fort 3+3-2=4
Ref 1+2=3
Will 1-1=0
Sources
All official 3.5 books except Dragon Magazine
Stances
Martial Spirit (Heal 2 on every hit Devoted Spirit, level 1, Page 60)
Iron Guards Glare (Enemies -4 to hit, Devoted Spirit, Level 1, Page 59)
Trip
+16, Extra attack if successful
1) opinions
- the fighting stuff looks solid: attackbonus, damage, AC, chance to trip an opponent
- I don't think u can take thicket of blades with a feat, since you don't meet the prereqs: it's a lvl 3 stance, so initiator level needs to be 5 at least to qualify.
- with crusader I'd always take extra readied manouver, or whatever the feat's called
- it's a bit low on hitpoints for a lvl 5 character, obviously cause of the +2LA, but at low levels that hurts, especially at the frontline
Suggestion: u might want to go with the Krym minotaur from the dragonlance campaignsetting; it has no LA, gives +4 str, +3 nat ac, though unfortunately no large size. Then again, it matches the flavour you seek, gives you more HP and acces to thicket of blades on the next level, though still at the cost of a feat.
2) Yeah, I guess so. I mean, you get the aoo for you're oponent getting up, so you can get him down again, at least that would be what I'd rule as DM. Donno if there's a ruling somewhere about it.
3) see above.
First of all, I never played a trip character myself, so
- I don't think u can take thicket of blades with a feat, since you don't meet the prereqs: it's a lvl 3 stance, so initiator level needs to be 5 at least to qualify.
Oh... thought crusader "level" 3 was the prereq :-(
Guess that kind of breaks the point of my build... or I could just play him for 2 levelups... hm...
- with crusader I'd always take extra readied manouver, or whatever the feat's called
Extra granted maneuver... yeah that's great, but I was feat starved and kind of focusing more on trip... I'll have to see what I make of this now...
- it's a bit low on hitpoints for a lvl 5 character, obviously cause of the +2LA, but at low levels that hurts, especially at the frontline
Yeah... well with one levelup Steely Resolve becomes 10, and I can acquire Stone Power. Stone Power + Steely Resolve is very nice for hitpoints. I also have a nice AC for level 5, Crusader Strike and Martial Spirit
Suggestion: u might want to go with the Krym minotaur from the dragonlance campaignsetting; it has no LA, gives +4 str, +3 nat ac, though unfortunately no large size. Then again, it matches the flavour you seek, gives you more HP and acces to thicket of blades on the next level, though still at the cost of a feat.
Nice Idea! Large is great, but so is Thicket of blades... I guess I'll have to decide.
Stand Still also sounds interesting.
I guess I'll swap Martial Stance for Stone Power, Stand Still or Extra Granted Maneuver and grab Martial Stance (Thicket of Blades) at level 5. (retraining?)
Stand Still works great with Thicket of Blades but not so great with Trip, am I right?
Stand Still works great with Thicket of Blades but not so great with Trip, am I right?
Okay here is how this works you can choose one option or the other when your opponent provokes an attack of opportunity from the Thickect of Blades stance.
Attack of Opportunity provoked > use Stand Still feat to stop them from moving out of your threatened area
or
Attack of Opportunity provoked > use Spiked Chain or other Tripping weapon to make a Trip attack to "stop" them from moving out of your threatened area (in this case sending them sprawling onto the ground is a great way to "stop" them from leaving your threatened area)
Basically (while in the Thicket of Blades stance) if you can trip it, trip it. If you can't trip it (multiple legs, large+ size, no legs, etc.) use Stand Still. If they try to crawl away after being tripped, use Stand Still.
It's good the rules work that way, it would be really broken otherwise.
Oh, allow me to suggest an idea, too. I like to disarm prone foes. Either on my turn, or on the AoO. Not only do you get the +4 attack against prone bonus, but he's also eating -4 to hit for being prone. So it's effectively a +8 bonus to disarm, not too bad!
Another idea: If you ever reach BAB +12, Defensive Sweep should be on your wish list. It's in PH2. If an enemy you threaten doesn't move at all on his turn, you get an AoO on him. Combine with Thicket of Blades, which provkes AoOs even if the enemy 5 ft steps, and you put him in a "lose-lose situation." I got that idea from the Crusader lockdown thread, you should try to find it if the new forums didn't swallow it whole.
Am I missing something? House rule or something else I'm not thiking of?
Stand Still works great with Thicket of Blades but not so great with Trip, am I right?
Okay here is how this works you can choose one option or the other when your opponent provokes
...
Basically (while in the Thicket of Blades stance) if you can trip it, trip it. If you can't trip it (multiple legs, large+ size, no legs, etc.) use Stand Still. If they try to crawl away after being tripped, use Stand Still.
Ah ok, definitely sounds worth taking sooner or later :-)
Attacks of opportunity are taken before the action that provoked them is resolved. So, when you take that AoO for the enemy standing up, he still counts as prone. Which means 2 things: 1) You retain the nice +4 bonus to hit against a prone enemy on the AoO and 2) You can't trip someone who's already prone, sorry.
It's good the rules work that way, it would be really broken otherwise.
Yeah sounds logical. What about using Stand Still to prevent him from standing up? Lol
Oh, allow me to suggest an idea, too. I like to disarm prone foes. Either on my turn, or on the AoO. Not only do you get the +4 attack against prone bonus, but he's also eating -4 to hit for being prone. So it's effectively a +8 bonus to disarm, not too bad!
Yeah, and I think I'll be large, so again potential +4 and the Spiked Chain is a two handed weapon, so another +4.... lol
"but takes a –4 penalty to AC against melee attacks." Disarm has nothing to do with AC though I think so thats +12 total against medium opponents?
Very nice Idea though... especially because it looks like I don't even need the feat. Picking up a weapon is a move action? Picking up a weapon while your prone also? :-)
Another idea: If you ever reach BAB +12, Defensive Sweep should be on your wish list. It's in PH2. If an enemy you threaten doesn't move at all on his turn, you get an AoO on him. Combine with Thicket of Blades, which provkes AoOs even if the enemy 5 ft steps, and you put him in a "lose-lose situation." I got that idea from the Crusader lockdown thread, you should try to find it if the new forums didn't swallow it whole.
Lol Defensive Sweep looks insane with Thicket of Blades.... it says "adjacent to you" - does that meen 5 feet? I threaten feets 5-20 I think. Still incredible. I don't think I'll reach BAB 15 though (my book states 15).
I haven't found the Crusader lockdown thread yet, I guess I'll start searching :-)
Well, if you are feats starved, your'e not going to like what I say, but unless there is something I'm not seeing, Half-Ogres don't get the bonus feat humans do, no more than Half-Elfes or Half-Orcs.
You guys are awesome :-)
Well I thought that Half-Orc, Half-Elf = Races (even if they do sound like templates), while Half Ogre is a template... So I play a Human plus the Half Ogre Template...
Nice Idea! Large is great, but so is Thicket of blades... I guess I'll have to decide.
Large is just too good to pass up... 5-20 ft range, +4 to trip... I have thought about Enlarge Person though, using Wizard 1 instead of Half Ogre... or maybe even rely on the party Wizard for that...
I think Half Ogre is the best route, has more flavor than enlarge person too, but I'll have to think about that. Powerwise it's 1-2 HD difference, thus also gaining Thicket of Blades earlier... can be dispelled though... as a Wizard I would waste my first round of combat... and I'll have to check on how many 1st level spells I would have as a Level 1 Wizard. Edit: 2 with 14 Int... that's 1-2 short...
At the risk of repeating myself, what is it with Improved trip as a human bonus feat for a half-ogre?? Half-ogres do not get bonus feats anymore than half-elfes or half-orcs.
Did you read my attempt at justifying my claim? (Bottom of Post Nr. 8) Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are Races, Half-Ogre is a template.
At the risk of repeating myself, what is it with Improved trip as a human bonus feat for a half-ogre?? Half-ogres do not get bonus feats anymore than half-elfes or half-orcs.
Did you read my attempt at justifying my claim? (Bottom of Post Nr. 8) Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are Races, Half-Ogre is a template.
Oh, sorry, how did I miss that?
However I got ROD with me and Half-Ogre, at least in 3.0 is a race, not a template, but good for you if your dm allows what you want to do, but honestly, I would not give the bonus feat to my players unless it especially says it's a template. If there is a 3.5 version saying that, then I apologize and please disregard this post.
At the risk of repeating myself, what is it with Improved trip as a human bonus feat for a half-ogre?? Half-ogres do not get bonus feats anymore than half-elfes or half-orcs.
Did you read my attempt at justifying my claim? (Bottom of Post Nr. 8) Half-Elves and Half-Orcs are Races, Half-Ogre is a template.
Where are you getting this Template from? As far as I can see you referenced RoD (Races of Destiny) earlier, and the Half Ogre from RoD is not a template at all, it is a seperate race, just like the Mongrelfolk on the next page, or the Illumians earlier in the book. Half Ogre is no different than Half Orc, Half Elf or any other race.
As for Defensive Sweep, my bad. I was going from memory, thought it was BAB +12.
Why do I think all the "Half-" races are templates oO
Ok let me see about that feat... I have Stone Power, which is awesome but not a must. IT, CE, EWP and CR are all musts though... and I get my next feat at ECL(?) 6.
Improved Trip (Level 1)
EWP: Spiked Chain (Flaw: -2 ranged)
Combat Reflexes (Flaw: -2 Fort Save)
Combat Expertise (Level 3)
Stone Power/Stand Still (Level 6, Page 32, retrain at Level 7 for Martial Stance (Thicket of Blades))
Still not too bad I guess. Stone Power/Stand Still will have to wait for Level 9. I can test drive it from level 6 to 7.
I'm editing the first post, so if you guys see anything, thx.
I don't think Defensive Sweep is worth it. Look at Mage Slayer- it seems to me that feat solves very pressing difficulties and is easy to get.
Yeah looks great in combination with my 20ft reach :-) I'll add it to my "wishlist" :-)
So many great Feats... I might take Fighter 2, Crusader X...
I would highly suggest Extra Granted Maneuver over Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. I've played a crusader before with this build (but as a dwarf with spiked chain and flaws), and having all of your maneuvers available sooner is wonderful and fantastic. I would say Extra Granted Maneuver is much better than improved Trip. Look in the 3.5 Magic Items compendium: there is an enchantment that can give you a +2 or +4 (dont remember) to all trip attacks for a +1 enhancement bonus equivalent. Improved Trip becomes largely irrelevant, allowing you to have a nice spiked chain and more feats.
Look in the 3.5 Magic Items compendium: there is an enchantment that can give you a +2 or +4 (dont remember) to all trip attacks for a +1 enhancement bonus equivalent. Improved Trip becomes largely irrelevant, allowing you to have a nice spiked chain and more feats.
Page 44 - 45 : the enchantment is called "Sweeping" and gives a +2 Competence bonus on any Strength check made to trip an opponent with the weapon. Okay, not as amazing as I remember, but still nice. It's half of Improved Trip without ever requiring a feat.
In any case, tripping as a Half-Ogre already gives you a +4 bonus to strength on trips ^_^
Here's teh Crusader thread that basically lays out the way for the awesome Crusader build.
I would highly suggest Extra Granted Maneuver over Combat Expertise and Improved Trip. I've played a crusader before with this build (but as a dwarf with spiked chain and flaws), and having all of your maneuvers available sooner is wonderful and fantastic. I would say Extra Granted Maneuver is much better than improved Trip. Look in the 3.5 Magic Items compendium: there is an enchantment that can give you a +2 or +4 (dont remember) to all trip attacks for a +1 enhancement bonus equivalent. Improved Trip becomes largely irrelevant, allowing you to have a nice spiked chain and more feats.
The cool thing about improved Trip imo is the "If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt." part.
Sweeping looks interesting, +2 seems a little underwhelming though. Currently I have +9 to hit and +16 to trip. That would be +8 to hit and +18 to trip if I take the enchant. I don't know.
My Cleric Archer had a "Precise" Bow back then, maybe I'd be able to acquire a "Improved Tripping Spiked Chain"?
I think I that your weapon has to have min. +1 in order to add a weapon property to it... fe. +1 Sweeping, and not +0 Sweeping... but I might be wrong I'm not too sure about that.
Nice thread, nothing that I would change right away with my char though, but nice ideas there.
Btw... about my Belt of Ogre Power +2... in the book +4 and +6 are belts, but +2 is a gauntlet... can I have +2 as a belt? Would be nice because I already have gloves of dexterity...