Level 7 Gestalt Campaign - Dungeon Crasher Help! - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Level 7 Gestalt Campaign - Dungeon Crasher Help!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kolat
Jul 13, 2008 21:05:42 My last character bit the dust in the last session, so now I am looking to come up with a new character build.

Level 7 start, and continuing through level 20, and possibly beyond.

Currently I am leaning towards a Dungeon Crasher, using a two handed weapon (preferably a Maul/Hammer, but thats not necessary). Level 7 starting. Wealth is weird, I can take suggestions on items, but I'd have to convince the DM on anything magial.

Its a 28 point but, Human's only, no Crusader and no Warlock classes.

If I go Dungeon Crasher, I am looking at the following point buy, tenatively:

16 Str
14 Con
14 Dex
10 Int
12 Wis
8 Cha

I have access to any book, and possibly if I can convince the DM web supplaments and Mag classes, etc. No flaws though, alternate class features are possible.

Currently the party has a level 7 Wiz/7 Psion, a Warblade / Factotum /Wizard combination, a level 7 Cleric / 7 Warrior, and a level 7 Druid / Shape changing class, etc.

So I am basically the 5th wheel on the party. I chose the dungeon crasher as it seemed like a fun build, that would help the party at the same time. I am definately partial to it, but its not set in stone.

So any help with a dungeon crasher variant, or if you make a different suggestion I would want to stick with a battlefield controller type.

Any help is most appreciated!

Edit: Must be good aligned, or at the very least True Neutral. Anythng Evil will prolly be snuffed out!
#2
awaken_D_M_golem
Jul 14, 2008 16:54:48 hmm ... I don't think you'll be the 5th wheel.

Somebody has to be the Trapfinder.
Somebody has to be the Party Face.
Int 18, Cha 18 + race bonuses.

Rogue 1 / Sorc X on one side.
Diplomancer on the other side.
Option would Wilder -instead of Sorc - for Astral Constucts to pop traps, and fight for you.

Now the party will be whining at you to let them fight at all.
#3
kolat
Jul 14, 2008 19:51:58 That is a good build. When I ran it by my DM he veto'd the Diplomancer *tear*

However, I have been offered an odd temptation... I could come back as a variant of my old character with the +2 Lvl Adj Half-Dragon template.

but, that would mean coming back as a level 5 character...

My DM suggested going:

Side 1:
2 Fighter/3 Warblade (continuing in Warlade)

2 Level of Fighter with the 1st level dungeon crasher variant, 4d6 + 2x Stength Mod, and then Warblade for the manuevers.

Side 2:
5 Levels Psion then going into a Psion prestige class, such as Illithid Slayer.

Does anyone have any suggestions for this line possible Half Dragon / Human (I still get the extra feat from human!), Dungeon Crasher, with possibly only going 2 levels of the Dungeon Crasher variant.

Thoughts?
#4
kolat
Jul 15, 2008 19:26:16
#5
opibinia
Jul 15, 2008 20:32:56 Slayer would be a mistake, since the improved hit die and base attack are overwritten by the fighter/warblade side of the gestalt. Consider:

Dragonborn elf

Fighter 2/Warblade 8/Eternal Blade 10//Psion 20(possible PrC between 6 and 10)

Take expanded knowledge or use a mantle to get expansion, take knockback and other assorted bull rush feats, and hit people from overhead to "dungeoncrash" them into the ground.
#6
kolat
Jul 15, 2008 22:00:22 Unfortunetly Elf is not an option. It has to be Human / Half Dragon Template at Level 5, or Human Level 7.

So your suggesting going like this...

Human / Half-Dragon

Side 1:

1: Fighter
2: Fighter 2
3: Fighter 2 / Warblade 1
4: Fighter 2 / Warblade 2
5: Fighter 2 / Warblade 3

Side 2:

1: Psion
2: Psion 2
3: Psion 3
4: Psion 4
5: Psion 5

Now you mentioned Expanded Knowledge, will I need that to gain access to expansion? As I was figuring taking Quiken Psionic Ability, and simply Round 1 Move Action to move, Swift Action to cast Expansion, and the Standard to begin playing Wack-a-mole...

That what you have in mind?
#7
opibinia
Jul 15, 2008 23:57:32 The abilites of a half-dragon don't justify losing 2 manifester levels. Go with human if those are your only two options. I suggested dragonborn because it is thematically similar and actually does give you a fly speed, which you'd need to bull rush from above most of the time. For what it's worth, you can become a dragonborn during the campaign (refer to races of the dragon for details). Otherwise, you'll need to find some other way to fly without having to cast psionic flight on yourself all the time (other than metamorphosis).
The knockback feat requires you to be large, at least when using it, but expansion is not on the psion class list. You would have to take the expanded knowledge feat to get it.
At level 7, you wouldn't be able to quicken anything with quicken power. However, expansion itself does have an augment that allows it to be used as a swift action.
#8
kolat
Jul 16, 2008 7:37:02 If Psion doesn't have the Expansion power, would I not be better off being a Psy Warrior, as I believe they do have it? Or is Psion really that much better? Psy War would also give me more Feat's to work with.

I'll also take a look for Dragonborn later tonight, as being able to fly is a huge advantage for me.

Wouldn't the 1st level Jotunbrud feat allow me to qualify for Knockback, without actually being large?

Speaking to the DM, apparently I have the option of being a Level 6 Human, with no Exp penality (being able to race back equal to the party in Level eventually). Or I can try the Level 5 Half Dragon, and be an effective Level 7 character, w/5 gestalt class levels...

Any thoughts on that?
#9
opibinia
Jul 16, 2008 17:28:06 1. Yes, psion is that much better, especially because your other side is warblade.

2. Jotunbrud doesn't technically qualify you for knockback, since it's not powerful build, and it's a feat either way. Expansion can also make you huge later on.

3. As a full manifester, human still wins out over half dragon as long as you make optimal use of metamorphosis at level 7.
#10
kolat
Jul 17, 2008 12:39:18 So your suggesting Level 6 Dragonborn Human:

Side 1:

2 Fighter then Warblade 4.

Side 2:

Psion 6

Any suggestion on the order of feats? I believe in from Fighter and classes, I'll have 6 feats, one of which is automatically the level 2 dungeon crasher variant.

I need to look at Psion, but will 6 levels of the class give me a bonus feat to take Expanded Knowledge for Expansion?

And what feats on the fighter side to maximize my bullrush, damaging, etc?
#11
doomsought
Jul 17, 2008 18:52:29 you probably want to be a telepath or an egoist,
Deep impact looks good,
up the walls is fun,
and you probably want solicit psicrystal.
#12
opibinia
Jul 17, 2008 20:00:02 At level 1, you get 1 fighter feat, 1 normal feat, 1 human feat, and 1 psionic feat. At levels 3 and 6 you get normal feats, and at level 5 you get a second psionic feat. So you get, in total, 8 feats plus dungeon crasher.
So far you need power attack, improved bull rush, knockback, and expanded knowledge. Shock trooper is a no brainer at that point. I know less about psionic feats, but deep impact sounds about right unless you plan to make extensive use of metapsionics later. If you decide not to attack from the air for some reason, leap attack also synergizes with dungeoncrasher.

On a semi-related note: you could take a level of barbarian as well, just for pounce, but that may be above the power level of campaign.
#13
noheat
Jul 18, 2008 16:33:56
Currently I am leaning towards a Dungeon Crasher, using a two handed weapon (preferably a Maul/Hammer, but thats not necessary). Level 7 starting. Wealth is weird, I can take suggestions on items, but I'd have to convince the DM on anything magial.

If you are still looking for a cool Hammer and don't mind burning a feat on exotic weapon proficiency check this out...

Great Hammer (Monster Manual IV page 101)
1d12 19-20 X4 and +2 to sunder checks.

I have one on my Dungeon Crasher in a current campaign and love it. I'm not an expert optimizer but here's my build, it focuses gaining lots of attacks of opportunity on a victim and making them pay.

Fighter 6 / Crusader 14

F1 - Jotubrud, Power Attack, Imp Bullrush
F2 - Dungeon Crasher
F3 - Knockback (DM approved Jotubrud for prereq)
F4 - Exotic Weapon Prof (Great Hammer MMIV pg 101)
F5
F6 - Shock Trooper, Dungeon Crasher pt2
C1
C2 - Note Thicket of Blades stance for Attacks of Opportunity if victim moves
C3 - Combat Reflexes
C4
C5
C6 - Robilar's Gambit (Note they swing at me attack of opportunity back)
C7
C8
C9 - Defensive Sweep (Note if they don't move I get AoO)
C10
C11
C12 - (open feat)
C13
C14

I'm 10th level now and so far I've been having fun can't wait to get to 15th and giving the DM fits. Once there I'll have an attack of opportunity if my opponent moves, doesn't move, or swings at me.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kolat Jul 13, 2008 21:05:42	My last character bit the dust in the last session, so now I am looking to come up with a new character build. Level 7 start, and continuing through level 20, and possibly beyond. Currently I am leaning towards a Dungeon Crasher, using a two handed weapon (preferably a Maul/Hammer, but thats not necessary). Level 7 starting. Wealth is weird, I can take suggestions on items, but I'd have to convince the DM on anything magial. Its a 28 point but, Human's only, no Crusader and no Warlock classes. If I go Dungeon Crasher, I am looking at the following point buy, tenatively: 16 Str 14 Con 14 Dex 10 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha I have access to any book, and possibly if I can convince the DM web supplaments and Mag classes, etc. No flaws though, alternate class features are possible. Currently the party has a level 7 Wiz/7 Psion, a Warblade / Factotum /Wizard combination, a level 7 Cleric / 7 Warrior, and a level 7 Druid / Shape changing class, etc. So I am basically the 5th wheel on the party. I chose the dungeon crasher as it seemed like a fun build, that would help the party at the same time. I am definately partial to it, but its not set in stone. So any help with a dungeon crasher variant, or if you make a different suggestion I would want to stick with a battlefield controller type. Any help is most appreciated! Edit: Must be good aligned, or at the very least True Neutral. Anythng Evil will prolly be snuffed out!
#2 awaken_D_M_golem Jul 14, 2008 16:54:48	hmm ... I don't think you'll be the 5th wheel. Somebody has to be the Trapfinder. Somebody has to be the Party Face. Int 18, Cha 18 + race bonuses. Rogue 1 / Sorc X on one side. Diplomancer on the other side. Option would Wilder -instead of Sorc - for Astral Constucts to pop traps, and fight for you. Now the party will be whining at you to let them fight at all.
#3 kolat Jul 14, 2008 19:51:58	That is a good build. When I ran it by my DM he veto'd the Diplomancer tear However, I have been offered an odd temptation... I could come back as a variant of my old character with the +2 Lvl Adj Half-Dragon template. but, that would mean coming back as a level 5 character... My DM suggested going: Side 1: 2 Fighter/3 Warblade (continuing in Warlade) 2 Level of Fighter with the 1st level dungeon crasher variant, 4d6 + 2x Stength Mod, and then Warblade for the manuevers. Side 2: 5 Levels Psion then going into a Psion prestige class, such as Illithid Slayer. Does anyone have any suggestions for this line possible Half Dragon / Human (I still get the extra feat from human!), Dungeon Crasher, with possibly only going 2 levels of the Dungeon Crasher variant. Thoughts?
#4 kolat Jul 15, 2008 19:26:16
#5 opibinia Jul 15, 2008 20:32:56	Slayer would be a mistake, since the improved hit die and base attack are overwritten by the fighter/warblade side of the gestalt. Consider: Dragonborn elf Fighter 2/Warblade 8/Eternal Blade 10//Psion 20(possible PrC between 6 and 10) Take expanded knowledge or use a mantle to get expansion, take knockback and other assorted bull rush feats, and hit people from overhead to "dungeoncrash" them into the ground.
#6 kolat Jul 15, 2008 22:00:22	Unfortunetly Elf is not an option. It has to be Human / Half Dragon Template at Level 5, or Human Level 7. So your suggesting going like this... Human / Half-Dragon Side 1: 1: Fighter 2: Fighter 2 3: Fighter 2 / Warblade 1 4: Fighter 2 / Warblade 2 5: Fighter 2 / Warblade 3 Side 2: 1: Psion 2: Psion 2 3: Psion 3 4: Psion 4 5: Psion 5 Now you mentioned Expanded Knowledge, will I need that to gain access to expansion? As I was figuring taking Quiken Psionic Ability, and simply Round 1 Move Action to move, Swift Action to cast Expansion, and the Standard to begin playing Wack-a-mole... That what you have in mind?
#7 opibinia Jul 15, 2008 23:57:32	The abilites of a half-dragon don't justify losing 2 manifester levels. Go with human if those are your only two options. I suggested dragonborn because it is thematically similar and actually does give you a fly speed, which you'd need to bull rush from above most of the time. For what it's worth, you can become a dragonborn during the campaign (refer to races of the dragon for details). Otherwise, you'll need to find some other way to fly without having to cast psionic flight on yourself all the time (other than metamorphosis). The knockback feat requires you to be large, at least when using it, but expansion is not on the psion class list. You would have to take the expanded knowledge feat to get it. At level 7, you wouldn't be able to quicken anything with quicken power. However, expansion itself does have an augment that allows it to be used as a swift action.
#8 kolat Jul 16, 2008 7:37:02	If Psion doesn't have the Expansion power, would I not be better off being a Psy Warrior, as I believe they do have it? Or is Psion really that much better? Psy War would also give me more Feat's to work with. I'll also take a look for Dragonborn later tonight, as being able to fly is a huge advantage for me. Wouldn't the 1st level Jotunbrud feat allow me to qualify for Knockback, without actually being large? Speaking to the DM, apparently I have the option of being a Level 6 Human, with no Exp penality (being able to race back equal to the party in Level eventually). Or I can try the Level 5 Half Dragon, and be an effective Level 7 character, w/5 gestalt class levels... Any thoughts on that?
#9 opibinia Jul 16, 2008 17:28:06	1. Yes, psion is that much better, especially because your other side is warblade. 2. Jotunbrud doesn't technically qualify you for knockback, since it's not powerful build, and it's a feat either way. Expansion can also make you huge later on. 3. As a full manifester, human still wins out over half dragon as long as you make optimal use of metamorphosis at level 7.
#10 kolat Jul 17, 2008 12:39:18	So your suggesting Level 6 Dragonborn Human: Side 1: 2 Fighter then Warblade 4. Side 2: Psion 6 Any suggestion on the order of feats? I believe in from Fighter and classes, I'll have 6 feats, one of which is automatically the level 2 dungeon crasher variant. I need to look at Psion, but will 6 levels of the class give me a bonus feat to take Expanded Knowledge for Expansion? And what feats on the fighter side to maximize my bullrush, damaging, etc?
#11 doomsought Jul 17, 2008 18:52:29	you probably want to be a telepath or an egoist, Deep impact looks good, up the walls is fun, and you probably want solicit psicrystal.
#12 opibinia Jul 17, 2008 20:00:02	At level 1, you get 1 fighter feat, 1 normal feat, 1 human feat, and 1 psionic feat. At levels 3 and 6 you get normal feats, and at level 5 you get a second psionic feat. So you get, in total, 8 feats plus dungeon crasher. So far you need power attack, improved bull rush, knockback, and expanded knowledge. Shock trooper is a no brainer at that point. I know less about psionic feats, but deep impact sounds about right unless you plan to make extensive use of metapsionics later. If you decide not to attack from the air for some reason, leap attack also synergizes with dungeoncrasher. On a semi-related note: you could take a level of barbarian as well, just for pounce, but that may be above the power level of campaign.
#13 noheat Jul 18, 2008 16:33:56	Currently I am leaning towards a Dungeon Crasher, using a two handed weapon (preferably a Maul/Hammer, but thats not necessary). Level 7 starting. Wealth is weird, I can take suggestions on items, but I'd have to convince the DM on anything magial. If you are still looking for a cool Hammer and don't mind burning a feat on exotic weapon proficiency check this out... Great Hammer (Monster Manual IV page 101) 1d12 19-20 X4 and +2 to sunder checks. I have one on my Dungeon Crasher in a current campaign and love it. I'm not an expert optimizer but here's my build, it focuses gaining lots of attacks of opportunity on a victim and making them pay. Fighter 6 / Crusader 14 F1 - Jotubrud, Power Attack, Imp Bullrush F2 - Dungeon Crasher F3 - Knockback (DM approved Jotubrud for prereq) F4 - Exotic Weapon Prof (Great Hammer MMIV pg 101) F5 F6 - Shock Trooper, Dungeon Crasher pt2 C1 C2 - Note Thicket of Blades stance for Attacks of Opportunity if victim moves C3 - Combat Reflexes C4 C5 C6 - Robilar's Gambit (Note they swing at me attack of opportunity back) C7 C8 C9 - Defensive Sweep (Note if they don't move I get AoO) C10 C11 C12 - (open feat) C13 C14 I'm 10th level now and so far I've been having fun can't wait to get to 15th and giving the DM fits. Once there I'll have an attack of opportunity if my opponent moves, doesn't move, or swings at me.