It's a low-magic campaign, and the books allowed are the core books, the complete series, the races of-series and PHB II. So no ToB.
The Duskblade from PHB II goes really well with DD, but a single level is really all that's needed. So what to do with the last 4 levels before I can enter Dragon Disciple? I've been tinkering with some different possibilities ... all based on the concept of grabbing a Greatsword and a full plate and go to town with +8 str (+4 from rage, +4 from Dragon Disciple).
Option 1
Human Rogue 3/Duskblade 1/Barbarian 1/Dragon Disciple 4
1) Rogue 1: 2x FEAT (Able Learner, Improved Initative)
2) Rog1/DB1:
3) Rog1/Bar1/DB1: FEAT (Power Attack)
4) Rog2/Bar1/DB1:
5) Rog3/Bar1/DB1:
6) Rog3/Bar1/DB1/DD1: FEAT (Cleave)
7) Rog3/Bar1/DB1/DD2:
8) Rog3/Bar1/DB1/DD3:
9) Rog3/Bar1/DB1/DD4: FEAT (Improved Toughness)
This guy requires a bit of dex ... if I roll good stats, I will probably pick this build. With Able Learner, he can have Hide, Move Silently, Listen and Spot maxed, and if you throw Blade of Blood (Duskblade spell) onto the Sneak Attack, he can actually deliver the same backstab as a 9th level rogue. While he's able to take a beating at the same time, which can't really be said about your average 9th level rogue.
Option 2
Human Ranger 1/Duskblade 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Dragon Disciple 4
1) Ranger 1: 3x FEAT (Able Learner, Improved Initative, Track)
2) Rng1/DB1:
3) Rng1/Bar1/DB1: FEAT (Power Attack)
4) Rng1/Bar1/DB1/Ftr1: FEAT (Improved Toughness)
5) Rng1/Bar1/DB1/Ftr2: FEAT (Cleave)
6) Rng1/Bar1/DB1/Ftr2/DD1: FEAT (Weapon Focus: Greatsword)
7) Rng1/Bar1/DB1/Ftr2/DD2:
8) Rng1/Bar1/DB1/Ftr2/DD3:
9) Rng1/Bar1/DB1/Ftr2/DD4: FEAT (Improved Critical: Greatsword)
This one doesn't require any dex. His Listen and Spot will be maxed.
Option 3
Human or dwarf XX?/Duskblade 1/Dragon Disciple 4
Both option 1 and 2 are frontliners with some nice skill options as well. I'm not sure that's the best way to go, however. What do you think would be the best levels to take before entering the PrC?
And btw: I will be taking the Blade of Blood Duskblade spell, obviously. What should my other spell be?
Any general thoughts on the choices and the build(s) overall?
Edit: The Weapon Focus (Greatsword) and Improved Critical (Greatsword) feats in the option 2 build were really picked because of lack of imagination. If you think it's a viable build, some other feat-suggestions there would be welcome as well.
First off, for a melee type, you'll want higher BAB, so I'd go with option 2 over 1.
Also, make sure to grab pounce via lion totem from complete champion. It's a no brainer if you're taking barbarian anyways.
Other ides, if you're interested -> Dragonfire Adept (awesome flavor); Draconic X (+1 template, and with LA buyoff, you're golden); Dragonborn (great template for a lot of things)...
Edit: Both options have weak feats... When you pick one, look around for better feats, leap attack/shocktrooper. Robilar's gambit? lot's of options.
I don't like Dragon Disciple, but if you're stuck on it, Good Luck
First off, for a melee type, you'll want higher BAB, so I'd go with option 2 over 1.
Also, make sure to grab pounce via lion totem from complete champion. It's a no brainer if you're taking barbarian anyways.
Other ides, if you're interested -> Dragonfire Adept (awesome flavor); Draconic X (+1 template, and with LA buyoff, you're golden); Dragonborn (great template for a lot of things)...
Edit: Both options have weak feats... When you pick one, look around for better feats, leap attack/shocktrooper. Robilar's gambit? lot's of options.
Why don't you like Dragon Disciple? 4 levels gets you +4 to str and +2 AC for a 1 point BAB loss, and the synergy with Duskblade is nice. Seems worth it to me?
LA buy-off is not an option, unfortunately. Is Dragonfire Adept in my allowed books?
Where can I find Leap Attack?
It's becuase of the lack of spell progression. Magic is King on the OB, and anything that stops you from getting more of it isn't so good. A shorter dip into the DD PrC would still net + 2 STR + 1 AC and your claws and bite if that is what you are after.
But I don't want to play a magic user. I want to play a tank with some very minor spell options. And I can't see why Duskblade 1 + the first 4 levels of DD don't contribute to that concept.
... and if I'm already gonna sacrifice a point of BAB for +2 str and +1 AC, I might as well grab two more for a total of +4 str and +2 AC. Which isn't a bad tradeoff, IMO.
No further suggestions for feats in the option 2 build? Should I exchange WF and IC with Imp. Bull Rush and Shock Trooper?
Damage absorber? Glass Cannon? What?
Also, yes, shock trooper is better than WF/IC
What kind of tank do you want to play?
Damage absorber? Glass Cannon? What?
Also, yes, shock trooper is better than WF/IC
A kinda versatile tank? Who can absorb some damage and deal some damage? I guess damage dealing is what I want the most. That's why I figured that + 8 str (+4 rage, +4 DD) combined with power attack was a sound choice.
I used to spend a lot of time on this board a couple of years ago, and I don't know what a glass cannon is. How embarrasing.
You can take feats that improve combat while your ability to cast spells are used to augment you. Things like Haste & Wraithstrike with feats like power attack and arcane strike will make you a good damage dealer and still a capable combatant.
Good luck.I take it you're not familiar with swiftblade? The above build, at level 9, causes physical attacks to miss you 40% of the time (re: 40% concealment). That's a handy tanking feature. If you end up not going gish, I suggest a swifthunter build (check the handy links).
Even so, a swiftblade is a tactical combatant with low HP who relies on buffing and skirmish attacks. And btw, at 9th level it's 30% concealment, since you're only a 3rd level SB (Martial Class 1/Spellcasting classe(s) 5/SB 3 = 9th level). The SB is definitely cool, but they were not made to tank. Not at 9th level anyway.
I'll check out the Swifthunter thing.
This will delay Dragon Disciple a bit more than you wanted, but if your DM will let you use Extra Rage on the Rage Mage's Spell Rage ability then I think this will be the best way to get a Raging Dragon Disciple. Rage + Arcane Channeling is pretty nice imo. Spell Rage (and later Martial Arcanist) also help boost your CL up quite nicely.
Human
Barbarian 1 Extra Rage, Power Attack
Duskblade 1
Duskblade 2 Combat Casting (B), Improved Bull Rush
Duskblade 3
Duskblade 4
Duskblade 5 Shock Trooper
Rage Mage 1
Dragon Disciple 1
Dragon Disciple 2 Extra Rage (Spell Rage)
Dragon Disciple 3
Dragon Disciple 4
Abjurant Champion 1 Leap Attack
Abjurant Champion 2
Abjurant Champion 3
Abjurant Champion 4 FEAT
Abjurant Champion 5
Spellsword 1
Eldritch Knight 1 Improved Sunder (B), Combat Brute
Eldritch Knight 2
Eldritch Knight 3
Feats are pretty open to change as per your preferences.
Dain you might want to take a look at the build I'm working on in this threadhttp://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1013982. It has some casting in it but it's mainly a tank build with lots of claws, tentacles, and a bite, and tail smack.
also since you are looking at DD give the Races of Dragon a look over. There are several feats in there that really boost draconic characters and could improve your tank.
Nice build dave, the DC boost from spell rage later on could help it too if he wants one or two damaging spells.
Only if you stick with Rage Mage for more than 1 level. Which sucks.
If Extra Rage is okay, Rage Mage is a perfectly viable 1 level dip. As a class, it's a steaming pile of crap (like 95% of the stuff wotc pumps out).
fixed my missing link sorry about that.
I'd go to Duskblade 3 for Arcane Channeling. Then probably Abjurant Champion 5 after Dragon Disciple to increase your caster level to your BAB and get you some quickened buffs.
This will delay Dragon Disciple a bit more than you wanted, but if your DM will let you use Extra Rage on the Rage Mage's Spell Rage ability then I think this will be the best way to get a Raging Dragon Disciple. Rage + Arcane Channeling is pretty nice imo. Spell Rage (and later Martial Arcanist) also help boost your CL up quite nicely.
Thx for the build suggestion.
Which spells would I use with Arcane Channeling? I just looked through the DB spell list, and I can't really seem to find anything that would make all the boosting of the spellcasting ability worthwhile. Am I missing something?
Human Ranger 1/Duskblade 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Dragon Disciple 4
1) Ranger 1: [Track, Improved Initative, Power Attack)
2) Duskblade 1:
3) Barbarian 1: [Cleave]
4) Fighter 1: [Improved Toughness]
5) Fighter 1: [Improved Bull-Rush]
6) Dragon Disciple 1: [Shock Trooper]
7) Dragon Disciple 2:
8) Dragon Disciple 3:
9) Dragon Disciple 4: [Leap Attack]
... and we assume a starting Str score of 16, which would be 22 (26 w. rage) at 9th level and a Greatsword +1, my charge would look something like this:
To hit: +19 (+8 BAB, +8 str, +2 for charging, +1 weapon)
Dmg. 5d6+61 (2d6 weapon, 3d6 blade of blood cast right before entering rage, +12 str, +1 weapon, +48 power attack [full power attack w. no penalty to hit from Shock trooper = 16, 3x from Leap Attack = 48])
And that's without any pounce ability or magic of note.
... yes? Or am I missing something?
Duskblade 1/Cleric 4/Dragon Disciple 4
== or ==
Duskblade 1/Paladin 4/Dragon Disciple 4
Note that you don't have to add the Dragon Disciple bonus spells to a spontaneous arcane casting class; you can add them to any spellcasting class you want.
... any comments about that charge mechanic posted above? Did I do the math/rules interpretations right?
Hexblade 4 / Lion Totem Barbarian 1 / Dragon Disciple 4 (Pounce.. <3)
That should be followed up with Frenzied Berserker 10. Then one level of whatever.
I would go Duskblade 5/Dragon Disciple 4 myself.
I would also use a Bastardsword and aim for 1 level in Exotic Weaponmaster. If you are going for high Str, you might as well go for the 2x Str bonus to damage trick...