LF Advice Malconvoker+Ur priest+ Mystic Theurge - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

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#1 Vaeaelen Sep 14, 2015 14:11:52	Hello! Well, I'm thinking of my next char, I wanted a Fiend summoner so Wizard/Malconvoker fits well for me, but I wanted to go 1 step more and add Ur-Priest and MT, I know that as RAW Malconvoker and UR-Priest alignament require are oposite so it could not combine, but reading the malconvoker lore...someone who uses the evil to fight the evil i thought about one wizard who learned to steal divine powers from evil gods to fight them. So, my plans would be Wizard 5/ Malconvoker 6/ Ur 2/ MT7, finishing with 18th arcane CL and 14th divine CL with 9th lvl spells on both. I read the very nice guide of the malconvoker (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1131936) I'm looking for advices about wich items should i use, wich feats( superior summoning, i thought about getting the feats of the abysal sorceror bloodline to get another creature for summoning, but 4 feats seems too much for me) and which spells more than summoning monster could fit this char So, what do you think guys?
#2 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 14, 2015 21:12:40	For items, see the shopping list in my sig. It isn't specific to this character type, but it has a few suggestions for summoning in specific and casting in general, and I maintain that you can do far worse than just starting with that guide, paring out what is irrelevant or unaffordable, and going with that. For feats, the malconvoker guide really covers everything you could want. Although I once whipped up a malconvoker in like 10 minutes (which, because its components are sickeningly powerful, is much stronger than summoners I'd spent months designing) that made a few interesting choices. I've included the build plan at the end of the post. It's different from what you're making (I consider ur-priest to be unsporting), but you might find something worth poaching. Which spells are also largely a factor of how you plan on summoning, which the malconvoker discusses. Planar Binding and the like can get positively disgusting if you dive for the right outsiders. I'm out of practice for 3.5 and can't make suggestions on this, but a few quick Googles provides a few hits. Tempest's Sinister Minister build Note: I do not personally play with "clerics of a cause", nor do I fiddle with deities. This build also did not use Unearthed Arcana, so no flaws. Finally, I refuse to use Persistent Spell as written, but I'm not above using Divine Metamagic on inexpensive metamagics (even though I believe it really shouldn't break the metamagic cap). Note 2: I have a version of this that has much sleeker RP (CN Changeling priest of the Traveller), but I built it before I realized that the Contemplative couldn't give a domain that wasn't on your deity list already. So... Race: Aerenai elf (RP-wise, look at the Stillborn.) Deity: Cults of the Dragon Below. (Some of them are transhumanist enough to appeal to the Stillborn.) Alignment: CN Ability scores: Any, but if you're entirely by the book you'll need enough Int to get into the Paragnostic Assembly. (Not a bad thing, this build is a skill hog). 1 Cloistered Cleric (Knowledge domain, Dragon Below domain, Summoner domain) (Arenai Focus: Bluff, Augment Summoning bonus feat) * 2 Cloistered Cleric 3 Cloistered Cleric (Spell Focus: Conjuration) 4 Cloistered Cleric (ACF: Planar Dismissal) 5 Cloistered Cleric 6 Malconvoker (Rapid Spell) 7 Malconvoker 8 Malconvoker 9 Malconvoker (Summon Elemental) 10 Malconvoker (Divine Metamagic: Rapid Spell - swapped from Skill Focus because Arenai Focus counts as Skill Focus) 11 Malconvoker 12 Paragnostic Apostle (Call of Worlds) (Twin Spell) 13 Paragnostic Apostle (Divine Understanding: Summoner) 14 Malconvoker 15 Malconvoker (Divine Metamagic: Twin Spell) 16 Thaumaturgist 17 Thaumaturgist ** 18 Thaumaturgist (Extra Turning) 19 Heirophant (Spell Power) 20 Heirophant (Spell Power) * There's probably a domain spontineity ACF out there instead of the feat for it, but I got disgusted at how much amazing stuff WotC just lathered onto the cleric for free midway through this build, so I didn't go looking for it. If it exists, you want to spontaneously cast from the Summoner domain, which gives you most of the Summon Monsters. (It doesn't give you spontaneous access to the highest level ones, but the ones it does give you frees up your workhorse spell levels, especially because of the free metamagic (read: no need to slow down your casting for most of your effects) and Rapid Spell (which covers for when you want to Twin something).) ** The Thaumaturgist, being from the DMG, lacks the boilerplate text on its bonus feat that lets you select another if you already have it. Here, you've had Augment Summoning since level 1, so you can't get it again. If a DM revises that, use this to get another Extra Turning. The goal here was to get the caster level for summons as high as possible, as soon as possible, and to be able to summon just about anything, with as many general-purpose free metamagics as possible (you finish with Extend effectively twice, Twin effectively twice, Rapid effectively free, and whatever you can apply from equipment) and a few other special goodies, like giving all of your summons Fast Healing 7 on top of the malconvoker's bonuses. I think it finishes with around CL 25 for summon spells, before equipment, and some of those bonuses also apply to your calling spells. DMM: Rapid Spell lets you summon as a standard action instead of 1-round, which is a very impressive action onslaught (notably when paired with Fiendish Legion and/or DMM: Twin Spell) as well as good defense, since you aren't as vulnerable to disruption. Regarding the odd choices, the first is Planar Dismissal. It weakens your undead turning, but it gives you a mini-Banishment effect if something goes horribly wrong, which is normally the capstone ability from the Malconvoker. Pair it with cheap gear that improves your turning level, and you will have a pretty effective failsafe if you botch a Bluff check. The second is thaumaturgist. No one ever used this, but here it gives you a permanent ally and another source of free metamagic. It gets better if your DM recognizes that it's one of the only places in the game that doesn't have the "if you already have this feat, select another" text. My only regret is that in this build, you don't need the SF: Conjuration feat for anything else: my first stab at the build (the one using Changeling and Contemplative) got double-duty out of it by using the SF feat as a prerequisite for both Augment Summoning and the Thaumaturgist. But yes, I'm partly including it to show how powerful the malconvoker is - you can build it out of crap parts and still get something strong. And yes, that is Heirophant finishing it off - arguably the worst caster prestige class ever. Almost entirely because no one used Heirophant, ever, during 3.5's entire run, and because the extra benefits at those high levels pale before what you can do with lower level spells at a higher casting level. So I kind of included it as a mic-drop.
#3 Slagger_the_Chuul Sep 14, 2015 19:44:30	I did something similar, though with an illumian on an 18th-level build and with more of a focus on spontaneous casting. More notably on variations, I went for the fourth level of thaumaturgist due to the usefulness of having a contingent conjuration available for emergencies. Since it suited the character, the possibility of a botched check was handled by just being really good at the relevant checks instead of having any specific backup.

For items, see the shopping list in my sig. It isn't specific to this character type, but it has a few suggestions for summoning in specific and casting in general, and I maintain that you can do far worse than just starting with that guide, paring out what is irrelevant or unaffordable, and going with that.

For feats, the malconvoker guide really covers everything you could want. Although I once whipped up a malconvoker in like 10 minutes (which, because its components are sickeningly powerful, is much stronger than summoners I'd spent months designing) that made a few interesting choices. I've included the build plan at the end of the post. It's different from what you're making (I consider ur-priest to be unsporting), but you might find something worth poaching.

Which spells are also largely a factor of how you plan on summoning, which the malconvoker discusses. Planar Binding and the like can get positively disgusting if you dive for the right outsiders. I'm out of practice for 3.5 and can't make suggestions on this, but a few quick Googles provides a few hits.

Tempest's Sinister Minister build

Note: I do not personally play with "clerics of a cause", nor do I fiddle with deities. This build also did not use Unearthed Arcana, so no flaws. Finally, I refuse to use Persistent Spell as written, but I'm not above using Divine Metamagic on inexpensive metamagics (even though I believe it really shouldn't break the metamagic cap).

Note 2: I have a version of this that has much sleeker RP (CN Changeling priest of the Traveller), but I built it before I realized that the Contemplative couldn't give a domain that wasn't on your deity list already. So...

Race: Aerenai elf (RP-wise, look at the Stillborn.)

Deity: Cults of the Dragon Below. (Some of them are transhumanist enough to appeal to the Stillborn.)

Alignment: CN

Ability scores: Any, but if you're entirely by the book you'll need enough Int to get into the Paragnostic Assembly. (Not a bad thing, this build is a skill hog).

1 Cloistered Cleric (Knowledge domain, Dragon Below domain, Summoner domain) (Arenai Focus: Bluff, Augment Summoning bonus feat) *

2 Cloistered Cleric

3 Cloistered Cleric (Spell Focus: Conjuration)

4 Cloistered Cleric (ACF: Planar Dismissal)

5 Cloistered Cleric

6 Malconvoker (Rapid Spell)

7 Malconvoker

8 Malconvoker

9 Malconvoker (Summon Elemental)

10 Malconvoker (Divine Metamagic: Rapid Spell - swapped from Skill Focus because Arenai Focus counts as Skill Focus)

11 Malconvoker

12 Paragnostic Apostle (Call of Worlds) (Twin Spell)

13 Paragnostic Apostle (Divine Understanding: Summoner)

14 Malconvoker

15 Malconvoker (Divine Metamagic: Twin Spell)

16 Thaumaturgist

17 Thaumaturgist **

18 Thaumaturgist (Extra Turning)

19 Heirophant (Spell Power)

20 Heirophant (Spell Power)

* There's probably a domain spontineity ACF out there instead of the feat for it, but I got disgusted at how much amazing stuff WotC just lathered onto the cleric for free midway through this build, so I didn't go looking for it. If it exists, you want to spontaneously cast from the Summoner domain, which gives you most of the Summon Monsters. (It doesn't give you spontaneous access to the highest level ones, but the ones it does give you frees up your workhorse spell levels, especially because of the free metamagic (read: no need to slow down your casting for most of your effects) and Rapid Spell (which covers for when you want to Twin something).)

** The Thaumaturgist, being from the DMG, lacks the boilerplate text on its bonus feat that lets you select another if you already have it. Here, you've had Augment Summoning since level 1, so you can't get it again. If a DM revises that, use this to get another Extra Turning.

The goal here was to get the caster level for summons as high as possible, as soon as possible, and to be able to summon just about anything, with as many general-purpose free metamagics as possible (you finish with Extend effectively twice, Twin effectively twice, Rapid effectively free, and whatever you can apply from equipment) and a few other special goodies, like giving all of your summons Fast Healing 7 on top of the malconvoker's bonuses. I think it finishes with around CL 25 for summon spells, before equipment, and some of those bonuses also apply to your calling spells. DMM: Rapid Spell lets you summon as a standard action instead of 1-round, which is a very impressive action onslaught (notably when paired with Fiendish Legion and/or DMM: Twin Spell) as well as good defense, since you aren't as vulnerable to disruption.

Regarding the odd choices, the first is Planar Dismissal. It weakens your undead turning, but it gives you a mini-Banishment effect if something goes horribly wrong, which is normally the capstone ability from the Malconvoker. Pair it with cheap gear that improves your turning level, and you will have a pretty effective failsafe if you botch a Bluff check.

The second is thaumaturgist. No one ever used this, but here it gives you a permanent ally and another source of free metamagic. It gets better if your DM recognizes that it's one of the only places in the game that doesn't have the "if you already have this feat, select another" text. My only regret is that in this build, you don't need the SF: Conjuration feat for anything else: my first stab at the build (the one using Changeling and Contemplative) got double-duty out of it by using the SF feat as a prerequisite for both Augment Summoning and the Thaumaturgist. But yes, I'm partly including it to show how powerful the malconvoker is - you can build it out of crap parts and still get something strong.

And yes, that is Heirophant finishing it off - arguably the worst caster prestige class ever. Almost entirely because no one used Heirophant, ever, during 3.5's entire run, and because the extra benefits at those high levels pale before what you can do with lower level spells at a higher casting level. So I kind of included it as a mic-drop.