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Liche help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
gimly87
Nov 03, 2008 17:10:55 Hi,

In a game that I am DMing my players are building up to a fight with a powerful Liche and would like to get ideas for a lev 10 Liche build. I am not sure where to go with it so will leave it open. Go nuts if you wish.
#2
pithica
Nov 04, 2008 7:43:57 Level 10 total CR? or 10 class levels + CR adjustments?

Assuming you aren't counting the +2 from CR...I suggest the following skeleton builds. If you prefer a given one, speak up and I can help flesh it out more...

Make sure you read the Necromancers Handbook.

(builds are listed from least optimal to 'most', well, in my opinion at least)

All of these builds are base Human, unless specified otherwise

Necromancer 10
- Simple and to the point, very easy to make. Drop Evocation and Enchantment as your prohibited schools. Take the Skeletal Minion ACF from UA (p. 63). Go with as much of the Corpsecrafter feat line from Libris Mortis as you can grab and still meet Lich pre-reqs, arguably, this should affect your own body, since you are an undead you created.

Necromancer 3/Master Specialist 7
-Simple and to the point, fairly easy to make, slightly more powerful than above. Drop Evocation and Enchantment as your prohibited schools. Take the Skeletal Minion ACF from UA (p. 63). Go with as much of the Corpsecrafter feat line from Libris Mortis as you can grab and still meet Lich and Master Specialist pre-reqs, arguably, this should affect your own body, since you are an undead you created. The moderate school esoterica is worthless for a lich, but he's gunning for major. The minor school esoterica should affect the lich as well.

Necromancer 3/Master Specialist 4/Nightmare Spinner 3
-Not quite as simple as the above. Drop Evocation and Enchantment as your prohibited schools. Take the Skeletal Minion ACF from UA (p. 63). Go with as much of the Corpsecrafter feat line from Libris Mortis as you can grab and still meet Lich and Master Specialist pre-reqs, arguably, this should affect your own body, since you are an undead you created. The minor school esoterica should affect the lich as well.This causes you to lose a base 5th level slot in exchange for a bunch of Illusion slots. The illusions, though, can be changed to phantasms on the fly (if they qualify), which cause anyone that sees them to become shaken (no save), and take 1d6 non-lethal damage.

That'd probably be where I'd start for a generic lich at 10th level.
#3
muertog
Nov 04, 2008 14:06:50 Considering this is a one-shot opponent, not a player character, you might consider working from a CHA-base character class (sorc), to emphasize the Lich template's other abilities, since the DCs for those are based on CHA as well.
Who cares that you have fewer spells to select from if you have 5+bonus castings of Ennervation and plenty of Dispel Magic to toss around to get around those pesky Death Wards.

In fact, as the Lich template gets d12 hit dice, you might also consider taking the Stalwart Sorcerer alt class feature (CM, p36). At level 10, you get a grand total of 1 5th level spell known. Stalwart loses one spell known at the highest level (so lose the 5th level spell), to a minimum of 1 (so don't lose that spell), and gains 1 martial weapon proficiency, weapon focus and 2 hit points per level. No lose and plenty of free for a 10th level sorc.
#4
gimly87
Nov 05, 2008 17:21:49 Definitely want him to be class levels 10 plus the CR. Thanks for the help so far these are helping me greatly and any more would be greatly appreciated.
#5
dragonson
Nov 05, 2008 17:41:35 I'm sorry, but I must ask this, being unfamiliar with 4e. Is this 3.x?

If so, the lich must be 11th level, not 10th. Unless you are doing a special (REALLY special) circumstance.

What style is this lich? Standard necromancy or manipulative enchantments and illusions? Or does he go the direct damage route?

There's plenty to work with in any case. Simplest way to build the lich is Sor or Wiz 11. You can even just use the "Spells by Level" in the back of PH2 if it's available.

(This is all referring to 3.5 material. If something else, I have no clue.)
#6
gimly87
Nov 05, 2008 18:51:51 It is going to be 3.5.

I would like a Standard necromancer Liche with obviously some defensive spells and buffs and maybe a few attack spells as well. Thanks!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gimly87 Nov 03, 2008 17:10:55	Hi, In a game that I am DMing my players are building up to a fight with a powerful Liche and would like to get ideas for a lev 10 Liche build. I am not sure where to go with it so will leave it open. Go nuts if you wish.
#2 pithica Nov 04, 2008 7:43:57	Level 10 total CR? or 10 class levels + CR adjustments? Assuming you aren't counting the +2 from CR...I suggest the following skeleton builds. If you prefer a given one, speak up and I can help flesh it out more... Make sure you read the Necromancers Handbook. (builds are listed from least optimal to 'most', well, in my opinion at least) All of these builds are base Human, unless specified otherwise Necromancer 10 - Simple and to the point, very easy to make. Drop Evocation and Enchantment as your prohibited schools. Take the Skeletal Minion ACF from UA (p. 63). Go with as much of the Corpsecrafter feat line from Libris Mortis as you can grab and still meet Lich pre-reqs, arguably, this should affect your own body, since you are an undead you created. Necromancer 3/Master Specialist 7 -Simple and to the point, fairly easy to make, slightly more powerful than above. Drop Evocation and Enchantment as your prohibited schools. Take the Skeletal Minion ACF from UA (p. 63). Go with as much of the Corpsecrafter feat line from Libris Mortis as you can grab and still meet Lich and Master Specialist pre-reqs, arguably, this should affect your own body, since you are an undead you created. The moderate school esoterica is worthless for a lich, but he's gunning for major. The minor school esoterica should affect the lich as well. Necromancer 3/Master Specialist 4/Nightmare Spinner 3 -Not quite as simple as the above. Drop Evocation and Enchantment as your prohibited schools. Take the Skeletal Minion ACF from UA (p. 63). Go with as much of the Corpsecrafter feat line from Libris Mortis as you can grab and still meet Lich and Master Specialist pre-reqs, arguably, this should affect your own body, since you are an undead you created. The minor school esoterica should affect the lich as well.This causes you to lose a base 5th level slot in exchange for a bunch of Illusion slots. The illusions, though, can be changed to phantasms on the fly (if they qualify), which cause anyone that sees them to become shaken (no save), and take 1d6 non-lethal damage. That'd probably be where I'd start for a generic lich at 10th level.
#3 muertog Nov 04, 2008 14:06:50	Considering this is a one-shot opponent, not a player character, you might consider working from a CHA-base character class (sorc), to emphasize the Lich template's other abilities, since the DCs for those are based on CHA as well. Who cares that you have fewer spells to select from if you have 5+bonus castings of Ennervation and plenty of Dispel Magic to toss around to get around those pesky Death Wards. In fact, as the Lich template gets d12 hit dice, you might also consider taking the Stalwart Sorcerer alt class feature (CM, p36). At level 10, you get a grand total of 1 5th level spell known. Stalwart loses one spell known at the highest level (so lose the 5th level spell), to a minimum of 1 (so don't lose that spell), and gains 1 martial weapon proficiency, weapon focus and 2 hit points per level. No lose and plenty of free for a 10th level sorc.
#4 gimly87 Nov 05, 2008 17:21:49	Definitely want him to be class levels 10 plus the CR. Thanks for the help so far these are helping me greatly and any more would be greatly appreciated.
#5 dragonson Nov 05, 2008 17:41:35	I'm sorry, but I must ask this, being unfamiliar with 4e. Is this 3.x? If so, the lich must be 11th level, not 10th. Unless you are doing a special (REALLY special) circumstance. What style is this lich? Standard necromancy or manipulative enchantments and illusions? Or does he go the direct damage route? There's plenty to work with in any case. Simplest way to build the lich is Sor or Wiz 11. You can even just use the "Spells by Level" in the back of PH2 if it's available. (This is all referring to 3.5 material. If something else, I have no clue.)
#6 gimly87 Nov 05, 2008 18:51:51	It is going to be 3.5. I would like a Standard necromancer Liche with obviously some defensive spells and buffs and maybe a few attack spells as well. Thanks!