Lightning Mace Assassin - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Lightning Mace Assassin

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
yin_yang_dgbc
Jul 30, 2008 15:42:09 I have looked all over the boards for the past few weeks to find out any and all help with rogue builds or assassin-esque builds. I also came across lightning mace with the inclusion of aptitude. Heres the situation:

Level 4 character 18,16, 12, 12, 12, 12 point system

Race: ??? (elf type, whisper gnome seems better)

str 12
dex 18
con 12
int 16
wis 12
cha 12

I was thinking rogue 2/swordsage 2 to start with... I liked the idea f the jaunter build carnivore used and the lightning mace ideas from here ...
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1065324
to start we get only 1 magic item to begin with, if weapon the max is a +2.. So I was thinking of a +1 rapier with keen on it and If I take TWF get another MW rapier. Or get 2 Kukri's with the same enhancements as mentioned. This build is as mentioned geared more towards total annhilation through either sneak attacks or just overwhelming damage but its assassin type. Please help with the build... also books that are allowed are 3.5 strictly, ome things from BoVD or BoED, no eberron, no faerun, no kalemar...

Also, If you help with the 4th level build, could you then after that, show how you would continue the character after the 4th level, to level 20... thank you.

edit: heres what I was thinking for the level 20 character:

Fire Elf(+2 Dex,+2 Int,-2 Con,-2 Cha) +0 (+1 LA bought off) Dark Creature template

str 12 +6 item = 18
dex 20 +5 level bumps +5 inherent bonus +6 item= 36
con 10 +6 item =16
int 18 +4 inherent +6 item = 28
wis 12 + 4 inherent + 6 item = 22
cha 10 + 6 item = 16

18
36
16
28
22
16

rogue 1 / warblade 3 / swordsage 2/ swashbuckler 3/ Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/ Shadow Dancer 4/ champion of corellon 2 (good prc)/ ranger (elven racial substitution level 1) trapfinding 2/ exotic weapon master 1

feats:
TWF (ranger)
weapon finesse (swashbuckler)
Dodge(monk bonus)
Mobility(monk bonus)
Spring Attack(CoC bonus)
weapon focus (discipline, swordsage)

1st lvl Combat reflexes
3rd lvl Exotic Weapon (Lightblade)
6th lvl Combat Expertise
9th lvl Robilars Gambit
12th lvl Shadow Blade
15th lvl lightning mace
18th lvl mounted combat (replace with GTWF if I don't take CoC PrC)
flaw: ITWF, if dont get ITWF, then get quick draw
with all this my BAB is I believe +16, with evasion
improved evasion
Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting
stances
Hide in Plain sight
60 darkvision
Resistance to cold and fire
superior low light vision
+8 hide
+6 move silently
+10 ft all movement
trap finding
track

With lightning mace, elven thin blade at 15-20/ x2, robilars gambit, combat reflexes, and the like.... you can get many attacks in a single round, and if they hit you, you get more.

Let me know if I need to add in anything else, I'm fairly new at this kind of thing. If theres any issues with the character let me know... Also, I don't know if i can get the racial substitution level or the trap finding variant, if i cant, not sure what to get.
#2
reis
Jul 30, 2008 16:54:47 can you please post a complete build progression as stated in the posting guidelines?
#3
yin_yang_dgbc
Jul 30, 2008 19:42:03 Sorry about that, I'll edit it now..

Edit: fixed.... everything with it, hope its better.
#4
yin_yang_dgbc
Aug 01, 2008 1:58:29 100+ views and only one posted comment? I know there have been a lot of talk about lightning mace but has anyone implemented it into an assassin styled PC before? Or if not even assassin like, what about rogue type. The one level of rogue isn't really need but I like it in there, and might get rid of both levels of CoC to put it to rogue 3, thus giving me more SA. If not, than maybe wizard 2-3 for some spells that can help the build, like hunters eye and the lie.
#5
iconoplast
Aug 01, 2008 2:25:10 I'm kind of lost...

Why are you taking Lightning Mace when you're using kukris and thinblades?
#6
jaronk
Aug 01, 2008 2:56:54 He's using the Aptitude enchantment.

JaronK
#7
yin_yang_dgbc
Aug 01, 2008 3:13:16 Correct, Im using aptitude. now, If I stick with the elf character Ill get the thinblade for CoC, however, if not then kukri. either way i can have them both, since swordsage gives me weapon focus for any of the weapons that are in my discipline. And since they can know most of the disciplines, its fine.
#8
jaronk
Aug 01, 2008 3:18:11 Well, one obvious choice is to use Roundabout Kick if it's legal in your game, as it would give you more free attacks on criticals. Also the Enfeebling enchantment.

JaronK
#9
spectre3541
Aug 01, 2008 11:27:09 I know you said that you only get one weapon to start with, but getting the centerpiece feat of your build at lvl 15 seems a little late. Also, the build order that you posted is confusing to me.... is that in order? Sorry if I'm missing something. And if you can swing it, it's generally better to take swordsage/warblade levels later in the build so that your IL is higher for maneuvers that you can take. But starting at level 4 I can see why you want to get as much ToB goodness in as you can.
#10
yin_yang_dgbc
Aug 01, 2008 15:19:22 Where is roundabout located? My Dm is somewhat picky on a lot of things... if he hasn't read about it, and then you use it, I'll take him by surprise and then he gets angered. If it legal I'll try it.

This isn't the exact order f the build, but getting the feats at those levels are... As for the getting my main feat in the middle of the build. I agree, but the only thing is, I was trying to make my character be more assassin esque and I think i just made him a huge TWF without much sneaking and death into it.

If I was to rebuild it to be more dark I might take out weponmaster and CoC and put in more rogue, swordsage, or even unseen seer. For the feats, I guess mounted combat would come out and lightning mace would come in earlier levels, since it would all get shifted down..

Essentially, the character is meant to be really good finesse assassin...not so much through his power but through his cunning tactics and overpowering the enemy. I have another build that takes it in a different direction because that build uses much more SA damage, than just overall damage from abilities or attacks. If theres anyway that anyone can se how I can get more SA damage while having lightning mace and robilars ambit, and optimizing on both. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
#11
yin_yang_dgbc
Aug 01, 2008 15:23:55 Where is roundabout located? My Dm is somewhat picky on a lot of things... if he hasn't read about it, and then you use it, I'll take him by surprise and then he gets angered. If it legal I'll try it.

This isn't the exact order of the build, but getting the feats at those levels are... As for the getting my main feat in the middle of the build. I agree, but the only thing is, I was trying to make my character be more assassin esque and I think i just made him a huge TWF without much sneaking and death into it.

If I was to rebuild it to be more dark I might take out weponmaster and CoC and put in more rogue, swordsage, or even unseen seer. For the feats, I guess mounted combat would come out and lightning mace would come in earlier levels, since it would all get shifted down..

Essentially, the character is meant to be really good finesse assassin...not so much through his power but through his cunning tactics and overpowering the enemy. I have another build that takes it in a different direction because that build uses much more SA damage, than just overall damage from abilities or attacks. If theres anyway that anyone can se how I can get more SA damage while having lightning mace and robilars ambit, and optimizing on both. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

Edit: As for the build it would be

1 Rogue
2 Swashbuckler
3 swashbuckler
4 monk
5 swashbuckler
6 monk
7 ranger
8 ranger
9 shadow dancer
10 shadow dancer
11 shadow dancer
12 shadow dancer
13 CoC
14 CoC
15 Warblade
16 warblade
17 warblade
18 swordsage
19 swodsage
20 Weapon master
#12
sir_argenon
Aug 02, 2008 6:34:30 well i just skimmed thru so i dunno, but it seems to me that your build is taking exp penalties all over the place from level 5... unless your dm doesnt use them, thats gonna be a huge problem.
#13
jaronk
Aug 02, 2008 7:54:31 Roundabout Kick is either OA or UEast, I think. Not sure.

JaronK
#14
aelryinth
Aug 02, 2008 21:39:42 Bookmark this page. Has most feats in the game...not all of them, but 99% of them.

http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/featsform.pl

Roundabout Kick is from Complete Warrior. Not sure if it's worth it.

Also, be aware that your DM may make a stricter reading of Aptitude then is common here. The common interpretation here is that if a feat mentions a weapon, that weapon can be changed to the one with Aptitude on it (hence Lightning Mace with scimitars).

Many DM's will interpret it as, if the feat allows you to choose a weapon, the weapon you are wielding qualifies.

I.e Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Weapon Spec, feats that let YOU choose the weapon, not feats that require X weapon specifically to function.

The latter is how I'd interpret it, and I'm pretty sure it's intended that way...so a weapon you pick up can benefit from all your Weapon Spec feats.

===Aelryinth
#15
yin_yang_dgbc
Oct 11, 2008 2:06:12 Well its been about 2 months and I figured I'd update everyone.
My character as of right now is on hiatus since I can't play him till december-ish when I get back to the game. It is around level 8-9 right now, so when I get there it'll be closer to 10-11... good for me.

Here is the character progression... btw, my DM doesn't really bother with multi classing penalties and stuff, since it is really bothersome, and takes away in his mind form the enjoyment of the game. Also, he is'nt picky about encumbered weight and the like, unless, it is a lot or it would have a major affect on the group.

rogue 3/ swashbuckler2/ swordsage 1/ swashbuckler 2/ swordsage 1/ Invisible blade 1/master thrower 2/ swordsage 8
Thats the order in which I am going to go in level... I'm a a little so-so on the master thrower part. I have to waste 3 feats just to get into it, but then again, it is one more than invisible blade. Id rather just get rid of it, I'm not sure though, and replace it with 2 more levels of either swordsage, or 2 more of swashbuckler. I wanted my assassin to be a close combat fighter but also to be able to kill from afar if it is needed. Much like an assassin is expected to conform to the conditions at the given time. Also, the feats are as follows:

feats

weapon finesse (swashbuckler)
weapon focus (discupline, SS)
shadow blade (flaw)
combat reflexes(flaw)
robilars gambit 6
point blank shot2
far shot4
precise shot5
TWF1
Darkstalker7--- Now, i am hidden form all senses
quickdraw (master thrower)
daring outlaw3

Now, I really want lightning blade in there, but I'm not sure what to take out. It is really needed in the build to make the character more fighterish.. But then again, I could wait ill epic levels, to then give that feat since, it is an assassin. What should I do? If i get rid of master thrower levels, I can add it in, or if not, since my DM is most likely to not let me have it in my build or used with aptitude weapon enhancement. I can always get teh confirm +4 critical threat feat. Which would help out my character. THe only other option is, if my DM allows it, is to take out robilars gambit, not a big deal, and put in lightning mace... more balanced I presume.

What does everyone else think. Mind you, in this campaign, it is less gold and magic item for now at least. If I played this in my high level campaign the DM is also running, it is high gold and magi item... any ideas?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 yin_yang_dgbc Jul 30, 2008 15:42:09	I have looked all over the boards for the past few weeks to find out any and all help with rogue builds or assassin-esque builds. I also came across lightning mace with the inclusion of aptitude. Heres the situation: Level 4 character 18,16, 12, 12, 12, 12 point system Race: ??? (elf type, whisper gnome seems better) str 12 dex 18 con 12 int 16 wis 12 cha 12 I was thinking rogue 2/swordsage 2 to start with... I liked the idea f the jaunter build carnivore used and the lightning mace ideas from here ... http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1065324 to start we get only 1 magic item to begin with, if weapon the max is a +2.. So I was thinking of a +1 rapier with keen on it and If I take TWF get another MW rapier. Or get 2 Kukri's with the same enhancements as mentioned. This build is as mentioned geared more towards total annhilation through either sneak attacks or just overwhelming damage but its assassin type. Please help with the build... also books that are allowed are 3.5 strictly, ome things from BoVD or BoED, no eberron, no faerun, no kalemar... Also, If you help with the 4th level build, could you then after that, show how you would continue the character after the 4th level, to level 20... thank you. edit: heres what I was thinking for the level 20 character: Fire Elf(+2 Dex,+2 Int,-2 Con,-2 Cha) +0 (+1 LA bought off) Dark Creature template str 12 +6 item = 18 dex 20 +5 level bumps +5 inherent bonus +6 item= 36 con 10 +6 item =16 int 18 +4 inherent +6 item = 28 wis 12 + 4 inherent + 6 item = 22 cha 10 + 6 item = 16 18 36 16 28 22 16 rogue 1 / warblade 3 / swordsage 2/ swashbuckler 3/ Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/ Shadow Dancer 4/ champion of corellon 2 (good prc)/ ranger (elven racial substitution level 1) trapfinding 2/ exotic weapon master 1 feats: TWF (ranger) weapon finesse (swashbuckler) Dodge(monk bonus) Mobility(monk bonus) Spring Attack(CoC bonus) weapon focus (discipline, swordsage) 1st lvl Combat reflexes 3rd lvl Exotic Weapon (Lightblade) 6th lvl Combat Expertise 9th lvl Robilars Gambit 12th lvl Shadow Blade 15th lvl lightning mace 18th lvl mounted combat (replace with GTWF if I don't take CoC PrC) flaw: ITWF, if dont get ITWF, then get quick draw with all this my BAB is I believe +16, with evasion improved evasion Twin Exotic Weapon Fighting stances Hide in Plain sight 60 darkvision Resistance to cold and fire superior low light vision +8 hide +6 move silently +10 ft all movement trap finding track With lightning mace, elven thin blade at 15-20/ x2, robilars gambit, combat reflexes, and the like.... you can get many attacks in a single round, and if they hit you, you get more. Let me know if I need to add in anything else, I'm fairly new at this kind of thing. If theres any issues with the character let me know... Also, I don't know if i can get the racial substitution level or the trap finding variant, if i cant, not sure what to get.
#2 reis Jul 30, 2008 16:54:47	can you please post a complete build progression as stated in the posting guidelines?
#3 yin_yang_dgbc Jul 30, 2008 19:42:03	Sorry about that, I'll edit it now.. Edit: fixed.... everything with it, hope its better.
#4 yin_yang_dgbc Aug 01, 2008 1:58:29	100+ views and only one posted comment? I know there have been a lot of talk about lightning mace but has anyone implemented it into an assassin styled PC before? Or if not even assassin like, what about rogue type. The one level of rogue isn't really need but I like it in there, and might get rid of both levels of CoC to put it to rogue 3, thus giving me more SA. If not, than maybe wizard 2-3 for some spells that can help the build, like hunters eye and the lie.
#5 iconoplast Aug 01, 2008 2:25:10	I'm kind of lost... Why are you taking Lightning Mace when you're using kukris and thinblades?
#6 jaronk Aug 01, 2008 2:56:54	He's using the Aptitude enchantment. JaronK
#7 yin_yang_dgbc Aug 01, 2008 3:13:16	Correct, Im using aptitude. now, If I stick with the elf character Ill get the thinblade for CoC, however, if not then kukri. either way i can have them both, since swordsage gives me weapon focus for any of the weapons that are in my discipline. And since they can know most of the disciplines, its fine.
#8 jaronk Aug 01, 2008 3:18:11	Well, one obvious choice is to use Roundabout Kick if it's legal in your game, as it would give you more free attacks on criticals. Also the Enfeebling enchantment. JaronK
#9 spectre3541 Aug 01, 2008 11:27:09	I know you said that you only get one weapon to start with, but getting the centerpiece feat of your build at lvl 15 seems a little late. Also, the build order that you posted is confusing to me.... is that in order? Sorry if I'm missing something. And if you can swing it, it's generally better to take swordsage/warblade levels later in the build so that your IL is higher for maneuvers that you can take. But starting at level 4 I can see why you want to get as much ToB goodness in as you can.
#10 yin_yang_dgbc Aug 01, 2008 15:19:22	Where is roundabout located? My Dm is somewhat picky on a lot of things... if he hasn't read about it, and then you use it, I'll take him by surprise and then he gets angered. If it legal I'll try it. This isn't the exact order f the build, but getting the feats at those levels are... As for the getting my main feat in the middle of the build. I agree, but the only thing is, I was trying to make my character be more assassin esque and I think i just made him a huge TWF without much sneaking and death into it. If I was to rebuild it to be more dark I might take out weponmaster and CoC and put in more rogue, swordsage, or even unseen seer. For the feats, I guess mounted combat would come out and lightning mace would come in earlier levels, since it would all get shifted down.. Essentially, the character is meant to be really good finesse assassin...not so much through his power but through his cunning tactics and overpowering the enemy. I have another build that takes it in a different direction because that build uses much more SA damage, than just overall damage from abilities or attacks. If theres anyway that anyone can se how I can get more SA damage while having lightning mace and robilars ambit, and optimizing on both. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.
#11 yin_yang_dgbc Aug 01, 2008 15:23:55	Where is roundabout located? My Dm is somewhat picky on a lot of things... if he hasn't read about it, and then you use it, I'll take him by surprise and then he gets angered. If it legal I'll try it. This isn't the exact order of the build, but getting the feats at those levels are... As for the getting my main feat in the middle of the build. I agree, but the only thing is, I was trying to make my character be more assassin esque and I think i just made him a huge TWF without much sneaking and death into it. If I was to rebuild it to be more dark I might take out weponmaster and CoC and put in more rogue, swordsage, or even unseen seer. For the feats, I guess mounted combat would come out and lightning mace would come in earlier levels, since it would all get shifted down.. Essentially, the character is meant to be really good finesse assassin...not so much through his power but through his cunning tactics and overpowering the enemy. I have another build that takes it in a different direction because that build uses much more SA damage, than just overall damage from abilities or attacks. If theres anyway that anyone can se how I can get more SA damage while having lightning mace and robilars ambit, and optimizing on both. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks. Edit: As for the build it would be 1 Rogue 2 Swashbuckler 3 swashbuckler 4 monk 5 swashbuckler 6 monk 7 ranger 8 ranger 9 shadow dancer 10 shadow dancer 11 shadow dancer 12 shadow dancer 13 CoC 14 CoC 15 Warblade 16 warblade 17 warblade 18 swordsage 19 swodsage 20 Weapon master
#12 sir_argenon Aug 02, 2008 6:34:30	well i just skimmed thru so i dunno, but it seems to me that your build is taking exp penalties all over the place from level 5... unless your dm doesnt use them, thats gonna be a huge problem.
#13 jaronk Aug 02, 2008 7:54:31	Roundabout Kick is either OA or UEast, I think. Not sure. JaronK
#14 aelryinth Aug 02, 2008 21:39:42	Bookmark this page. Has most feats in the game...not all of them, but 99% of them. http://realmshelps.dandello.net/cgi-bin/featsform.pl Roundabout Kick is from Complete Warrior. Not sure if it's worth it. Also, be aware that your DM may make a stricter reading of Aptitude then is common here. The common interpretation here is that if a feat mentions a weapon, that weapon can be changed to the one with Aptitude on it (hence Lightning Mace with scimitars). Many DM's will interpret it as, if the feat allows you to choose a weapon, the weapon you are wielding qualifies. I.e Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Weapon Spec, feats that let YOU choose the weapon, not feats that require X weapon specifically to function. The latter is how I'd interpret it, and I'm pretty sure it's intended that way...so a weapon you pick up can benefit from all your Weapon Spec feats. ===Aelryinth
#15 yin_yang_dgbc Oct 11, 2008 2:06:12	Well its been about 2 months and I figured I'd update everyone. My character as of right now is on hiatus since I can't play him till december-ish when I get back to the game. It is around level 8-9 right now, so when I get there it'll be closer to 10-11... good for me. Here is the character progression... btw, my DM doesn't really bother with multi classing penalties and stuff, since it is really bothersome, and takes away in his mind form the enjoyment of the game. Also, he is'nt picky about encumbered weight and the like, unless, it is a lot or it would have a major affect on the group. rogue 3/ swashbuckler2/ swordsage 1/ swashbuckler 2/ swordsage 1/ Invisible blade 1/master thrower 2/ swordsage 8 Thats the order in which I am going to go in level... I'm a a little so-so on the master thrower part. I have to waste 3 feats just to get into it, but then again, it is one more than invisible blade. Id rather just get rid of it, I'm not sure though, and replace it with 2 more levels of either swordsage, or 2 more of swashbuckler. I wanted my assassin to be a close combat fighter but also to be able to kill from afar if it is needed. Much like an assassin is expected to conform to the conditions at the given time. Also, the feats are as follows: feats weapon finesse (swashbuckler) weapon focus (discupline, SS) shadow blade (flaw) combat reflexes(flaw) robilars gambit 6 point blank shot2 far shot4 precise shot5 TWF1 Darkstalker7--- Now, i am hidden form all senses quickdraw (master thrower) daring outlaw3 Now, I really want lightning blade in there, but I'm not sure what to take out. It is really needed in the build to make the character more fighterish.. But then again, I could wait ill epic levels, to then give that feat since, it is an assassin. What should I do? If i get rid of master thrower levels, I can add it in, or if not, since my DM is most likely to not let me have it in my build or used with aptitude weapon enhancement. I can always get teh confirm +4 critical threat feat. Which would help out my character. THe only other option is, if my DM allows it, is to take out robilars gambit, not a big deal, and put in lightning mace... more balanced I presume. What does everyone else think. Mind you, in this campaign, it is less gold and magic item for now at least. If I played this in my high level campaign the DM is also running, it is high gold and magi item... any ideas?