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lion of talisid build help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
sally_jones
May 05, 2008 21:55:26 i making a druid who hearts big cats and will prestige into lion of talisid. i am debating on VoP. my build is one of two right now.

druid 6 / lion of talisid 10
or
barbarian 2 / druid 4 / lion of talisid 10

there are certain things that are important to him in this order.
1) animal companion
2) spells that summon or augment his club
3) melee fighting and/or wildshape
4) healing

any help is appreciated.
#2
banor
May 05, 2008 23:34:06 Do NOT take these barbarian levels. In fact do not take ANYTHING that will make you caster level.

My brother is currently playing a Lion of Talisid, its very effective. Thing to remember, when your Animal Companion get his celestial template, he becomes a magical beast, thus get d10 hp, full BAB and other stuffs. This alone is very dangerous

Feat wise do not take VoP, it's a trap. Spell Focus (Conjuration)/Augment Summoning is a clear winner if you want to summon a bit. Natural Spell at 6 is a no brainer. After this it's pretty much as you want. I like Sculpt if you plan to drop some battlefield control or Natural Bound if your DM let you use it to offset the penalities of alternate companion (Dire Tiger at L13 is a winner, trust me). Extend and Quicken are pretty good too

For itemsGrab some Wilding Clasp (MIC) and use the magic items you like even while wild shaped. Mantle of the Beast for swift action wildshape is also great. Rod of Extend is also a good choice.
#3
sally_jones
May 05, 2008 23:54:27 a. why so down on vow of poverty?

b. im thinking of taking the druid variant that replaces wildshape with monk armor, monk speed, track, and favored enemy. my dm will let this replace wildshape for lion of talisid as well.

c. my end goal for animal companion is a celestial dire lion. so hopefully i can grab natural bond for that.
#4
banor
May 06, 2008 1:08:38 a)As you gain level, items are starting to overweight VoP. By level 15 VoP will just wont cut it. VoP is great for low level or low magic games, otherwise you'd be better with items.

b) Don't do that. Seriously Wild shape is one of the best class feature in the game, don't waste it on something as worthless as Monk class features. If you want your Wis to AC (and you should ) go with a Monk's Belt and a Wilding Clasp. Wild shape is just that good. Even if you are focused on casting, you can use it for free flight, more durability or just to turn into a melee monster (Dire Lion+Bite of the Werebear is just plain awesome, it even get you the melee oriented feats for free )

c. Good idea, if your DM let you use Natural Bound to offset the penality, make sure to grab the Dire Tiger at 13, he is really good. Dire Lion being -9, you can get it as early as 7 with Natural Bound.
#5
risner
May 06, 2008 2:29:58
a. why so down on vow of poverty?

a) Unless you are playing a level 8 and less game or something, VoP is more a hindrance than a benefit.
#6
sally_jones
May 06, 2008 10:59:35 the reason i ask about dropping wildshape is because i want to use spells like shillelagh and brambles. rocking w/ my club is what i want.
#7
ander_spectacular
May 06, 2008 11:08:08 I guess you could drop wildshape from your druid levels with little impact considering Lion of Talisid grants it again anyway.
-AS-
#8
sally_jones
May 06, 2008 11:57:42 my dm is willing to let the lion of talisid wildshape count for speed and such.
#9
banor
May 06, 2008 15:49:32
the reason i ask about dropping wildshape is because i want to use spells like shillelagh and brambles. rocking w/ my club is what i want.

Seriously, this is not a good idea from an Optimization point. Actually it's a terrible idea. Most of this stuff doesn't last long enough to have them all day long so they might cost you some precious combat action. I would REALLY consider dropping this idea (again from an optimization PoV, it's still YOUR character but we are on the CO board aren't we ?)

Think about it, 2d6+10+STR with your shillelagh and brambles or a full attack of a Dire Tiger (2x 2d4+10, 1x2d8+6, 2x 2d4+6 unbuffed with a higher chance to hit) ?

If you really want to drop Wildshape, stay away from melee and play a summoner. SNA + Animal Growth is a very good combo.
#10
ander_spectacular
May 07, 2008 7:16:54
Seriously, this is not a good idea from an Optimization point. Actually it's a terrible idea. Most of this stuff doesn't last long enough to have them all day long so they might cost you some precious combat action. I would REALLY consider dropping this idea (again from an optimization PoV, it's still YOUR character but we are on the CO board aren't we ?)

Think about it, 2d6+10+STR with your shillelagh and brambles or a full attack of a Dire Tiger (2x 2d4+10, 1x2d8+6, 2x 2d4+6 unbuffed with a higher chance to hit) ?

If you really want to drop Wildshape, stay away from melee and play a summoner. SNA + Animal Growth is a very good combo.

Note the actual build is a 16th level one and even if he gives up wildshape from Druid, he gets it back from Lion of Talisid(like I pointed out 3 posts ago). Harping on how great wildshape is isn't going to help anything. At 16th, he will have WS 4/day with large and tiny creatures in addition to all the other stuff. At 16th level, WS is not so great anyway as animals have horrendous ACs and druids cannot buff themselves very well while in animal form(since WS no longer changes type).
-AS-
#11
banor
May 07, 2008 13:22:46 Thing is that he pointed that his DM agreed on dropping the Wild Shape on the class to get monk and stuff progression.

As I said, why loosing one of the best class feature for something you can get for few thousand gold (Monk's Belt) ? Even if you don't want to be a frontliner, a small (or tiny) bird flying over the battlefield summoning stuff and dropping BC is quite good

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 sally_jones May 05, 2008 21:55:26	i making a druid who hearts big cats and will prestige into lion of talisid. i am debating on VoP. my build is one of two right now. druid 6 / lion of talisid 10 or barbarian 2 / druid 4 / lion of talisid 10 there are certain things that are important to him in this order. 1) animal companion 2) spells that summon or augment his club 3) melee fighting and/or wildshape 4) healing any help is appreciated.
#2 banor May 05, 2008 23:34:06	Do NOT take these barbarian levels. In fact do not take ANYTHING that will make you caster level. My brother is currently playing a Lion of Talisid, its very effective. Thing to remember, when your Animal Companion get his celestial template, he becomes a magical beast, thus get d10 hp, full BAB and other stuffs. This alone is very dangerous Feat wise do not take VoP, it's a trap. Spell Focus (Conjuration)/Augment Summoning is a clear winner if you want to summon a bit. Natural Spell at 6 is a no brainer. After this it's pretty much as you want. I like Sculpt if you plan to drop some battlefield control or Natural Bound if your DM let you use it to offset the penalities of alternate companion (Dire Tiger at L13 is a winner, trust me). Extend and Quicken are pretty good too For itemsGrab some Wilding Clasp (MIC) and use the magic items you like even while wild shaped. Mantle of the Beast for swift action wildshape is also great. Rod of Extend is also a good choice.
#3 sally_jones May 05, 2008 23:54:27	a. why so down on vow of poverty? b. im thinking of taking the druid variant that replaces wildshape with monk armor, monk speed, track, and favored enemy. my dm will let this replace wildshape for lion of talisid as well. c. my end goal for animal companion is a celestial dire lion. so hopefully i can grab natural bond for that.
#4 banor May 06, 2008 1:08:38	a)As you gain level, items are starting to overweight VoP. By level 15 VoP will just wont cut it. VoP is great for low level or low magic games, otherwise you'd be better with items. b) Don't do that. Seriously Wild shape is one of the best class feature in the game, don't waste it on something as worthless as Monk class features. If you want your Wis to AC (and you should ) go with a Monk's Belt and a Wilding Clasp. Wild shape is just that good. Even if you are focused on casting, you can use it for free flight, more durability or just to turn into a melee monster (Dire Lion+Bite of the Werebear is just plain awesome, it even get you the melee oriented feats for free ) c. Good idea, if your DM let you use Natural Bound to offset the penality, make sure to grab the Dire Tiger at 13, he is really good. Dire Lion being -9, you can get it as early as 7 with Natural Bound.
#5 risner May 06, 2008 2:29:58	a. why so down on vow of poverty? a) Unless you are playing a level 8 and less game or something, VoP is more a hindrance than a benefit.
#6 sally_jones May 06, 2008 10:59:35	the reason i ask about dropping wildshape is because i want to use spells like shillelagh and brambles. rocking w/ my club is what i want.
#7 ander_spectacular May 06, 2008 11:08:08	I guess you could drop wildshape from your druid levels with little impact considering Lion of Talisid grants it again anyway. -AS-
#8 sally_jones May 06, 2008 11:57:42	my dm is willing to let the lion of talisid wildshape count for speed and such.
#9 banor May 06, 2008 15:49:32	the reason i ask about dropping wildshape is because i want to use spells like shillelagh and brambles. rocking w/ my club is what i want. Seriously, this is not a good idea from an Optimization point. Actually it's a terrible idea. Most of this stuff doesn't last long enough to have them all day long so they might cost you some precious combat action. I would REALLY consider dropping this idea (again from an optimization PoV, it's still YOUR character but we are on the CO board aren't we ?) Think about it, 2d6+10+STR with your shillelagh and brambles or a full attack of a Dire Tiger (2x 2d4+10, 1x2d8+6, 2x 2d4+6 unbuffed with a higher chance to hit) ? If you really want to drop Wildshape, stay away from melee and play a summoner. SNA + Animal Growth is a very good combo.
#10 ander_spectacular May 07, 2008 7:16:54	Seriously, this is not a good idea from an Optimization point. Actually it's a terrible idea. Most of this stuff doesn't last long enough to have them all day long so they might cost you some precious combat action. I would REALLY consider dropping this idea (again from an optimization PoV, it's still YOUR character but we are on the CO board aren't we ?) Think about it, 2d6+10+STR with your shillelagh and brambles or a full attack of a Dire Tiger (2x 2d4+10, 1x2d8+6, 2x 2d4+6 unbuffed with a higher chance to hit) ? If you really want to drop Wildshape, stay away from melee and play a summoner. SNA + Animal Growth is a very good combo. Note the actual build is a 16th level one and even if he gives up wildshape from Druid, he gets it back from Lion of Talisid(like I pointed out 3 posts ago). Harping on how great wildshape is isn't going to help anything. At 16th, he will have WS 4/day with large and tiny creatures in addition to all the other stuff. At 16th level, WS is not so great anyway as animals have horrendous ACs and druids cannot buff themselves very well while in animal form(since WS no longer changes type). -AS-
#11 banor May 07, 2008 13:22:46	Thing is that he pointed that his DM agreed on dropping the Wild Shape on the class to get monk and stuff progression. As I said, why loosing one of the best class feature for something you can get for few thousand gold (Monk's Belt) ? Even if you don't want to be a frontliner, a small (or tiny) bird flying over the battlefield summoning stuff and dropping BC is quite good