possible names
The Borg Cube
Ramiel (Cubeknight)
Tepellin (Cubeknight)
God (questbreaker, peasent name for it)
The Borg Cube
Ramiel (Cubeknight)
Tepellin (Cubeknight)
God (questbreaker, peasent name for it)
Heh, this is pretty cool.
Thanks:D
I added a deluxe version of the stronghold for plane-shifty goodness.
Ah, that looks nice, but I seem to remember a small clause in the Lyre of Building, stating that it can only do that once per day. So you would need 48 Lyres of Building for this to work all day. (And a Warforged follower or two to play those all day long.)
I wasn't really planning on having the protection all day, but only for adventuring time. During downtime, using the burrowing ability or the submersing ability should be adequete to prevent you from being disturbed (keep a lyre or 2 backup, just in case some earth elemental finds you).
However, 48 lyres of building are obtainable. Assuming an Artificer with Extraordinary Artisan feat: cost to create= 4,875gp *48 lyres= 234,000gp to craft them. Seeing how the stronghold funds are given as bonus funds from Landlord, this is actually not that bad. Leadership for Warforged followers is never a bad idea either.
Alternatively, a custom-made lyre of building with unlimited use/day using the magic item creation guidelines would be possible.
Edit: Question, what spells do people recommend for the spell turret?
If you want more power, perhaps Prismatic Ray (Complete Arcane) or Energy Drain?
Magic Missle is always good. You never have to worry about missing. That says a lot since I'm sure the spell turret has a crappy attack bonus (I've never seen the DMG2).
If you want more power, perhaps Prismatic Ray (Complete Arcane) or Energy Drain?
Thanks for the advice, unfortunantly Spell Turrets have some wierd rules for spells.
Basically:
4 spells in.
All must be of the same level/same list.
All must be from different schools.
Cast one spell per round (predetermined order at time of creation)
every 5th round, repairs itself. Then restarts cyle again.
Hope this summery helps anyone (and you're right, their is no Att Bonus listed for spell purpuses, so defauld would most likely be 0)
Edit: Construct-wise, the original post now recommends the Helmed/Battle Horror from Lost Empires of Faerun. (Barring effigy cheese, of course). Currently need to figure out the cost of putting a 1-way teleportation effect within the box so that Horrors can get out. Also need an effective way of getting them in without leaving Lazy Gear vunerable (no doors, probably magic item based). Though on the plus side, Horrors have an Int score, making commanding them far easier (complex orders).
Edit: Platform of Jaunting (SBG) should get them out. Works as a dimension door spell and only cost 14,000gp. Takes up a 10*10 area unfortunantly. The more I examine this, the more the flying box is starting to resemble a mini-Protoss Carrier (with Battle Horrors as the inteceptors). Just need to find a magic item to let them back in.
The more expensive version of the platform would allow for travel anywhere on the plane.
Edit 3: By the wording of the stronghold cost determining section, Wonderous architecture costs come out of Landlord funds, so the Greater platform of jaunting is actually perfectly affordable, since it comes from bonus funds that can't be used for anything non-stronghold related. Max of 800,000 bonus gp for stronghold at level 20. Time to load up on wonderous architecture/wall augmentations since having more than one box is cost prohibitive due to armaments/constructs.
Add on some traps of mending or whatever to cure the other traps.
Since these spells are triggered by alarm, any party member nearing the tank only has to whisper the command word to make themselves not targets.
IIRC, a stronghold space was something like 20 feet by 20 feet, though some rooms were fractions of a space. With a diminutive or perhaps even a fine occupant in a similarly downscaled stronghold, perhaps it could even fit within a dungeon without having to burrow through it.
Be sure your shiny obdurium ship's magic missile cannons make little laser noises and your UFO will be the cutest little powder room of doom ever seen.
BTW, a level one/CL1 spell turret would also cost 500 GP and 40 XP. You'd have to mix in other spells, but it gets a bit of self-healing as well. Also, possibly heighten spell (or even metamagic feats in general) could be used to help circumvent the "spells must be the same level" requirement of a turrett.
Turrets have 120' truesight and reprogrammability to boot, which may be more useful at times (say, visiting town). And possibly a degree of intelligence, as an example turret states it uses stoneskin on an animal it summoned in the previous round. (For now I'll ignore the fact that stoneskin is a touch range spell, and that its 250 GP material component didn't bump the cost to create that example turret by so much as a copper).
Then again, the rules state the turret targets the closest unrecognized creature, and I'm prone to ignoring that particular example turret as a result.
Anyway, not saying turrets are strictly better, but they're not necessarily worse.
Spell turrets of buffs would be great in a good-aligned temple. Lemme think of what to give them... Cure minor wounds, virtue, resistance, guidance. Help out all those peasants.
Or, alternatively, create water, detect poison, purify food/drink, mending
Just use the normal trap crafting rules. Make a magic trap of magic missile at CL1 for d4+1 damage/turn, unblockable. IIRC, it's 500 gp, 40 XP to craft. At that price, you can afford to put on several, and fry your opponents with as many attacks as you want. Or put on a bunch of acid splashes for half the price, which give d3 damage each, but aren't unblockable. If you're fighting zombies, disrupt undead gives d6 damage each.
Add on some traps of mending or whatever to cure the other traps.
Since these spells are triggered by alarm, any party member nearing the tank only has to whisper the command word to make themselves not targets.
Mad Linguist:The question isn't so much whether to make use of traps or not. The question is whether I have to pay for them myself or whether the Landlord feat will supply them (thus freeing up wealth-by-level to make Battle Horror drones, which have magic missile at will).The Spell Turret may not be the best way of doing it, it's just the first thing that came to mind. BTW: If by a few, you mean several dozen ( 16 per face, IIRC), then you're correct. However, Spell Turrets specifically state in their description that they use the minimum CL for the spell (slightly less broken, but still abusable). Of course, with several dozen of them, the CL limitation is not so bad.
As for traps that repair other traps, use the Repair Damage line from Spell Compendium.
saracoth: Their are no rules for scaling down the component size from what I can tell. The smallest component is 0.5 storage spaces. The only problem is that the Platform that teleports out of the box is 10*10 ft, and storing multiple medium-sized constructs for launch would be difficult. However, a smaller component (as you pointed out), has its uses. Metamagic is something i'm going to have to look into.
SS are 20*20*10ft
Thanks for the replies!
Edit: One problem with magic missile, Spell Resistance. Also, anyone know of an effective way of getting the Battle Horrors back inside without some kind of 2-way transport (can already get them out of the ship, but getting them back in again is proving to be a pain)?
Intended to edit previous post, but accidently hit the quote button. Deleated quote.
Using the 20*20*10ft dimensions, we get 64 valid turret slots (assuming that each turret takes a 5ft*5ft space).
(4*4)+(4*4)+ 4(4*2)= 64 (units are 5ft increments). Of course, firing arcs will have to be taken into account with design.
Well, there's always Power Word Pain to finish off the weaker ones, and judging by their intelligence, a Spell Turret should be smart enough not to bother aiming it at the powerful baddies. Create Trap is also interesting, conjuring up a 20ft. pit below the enemy is always fun.
Power Word Pain-Enchantment(?)
Magic Missile-Evocation
Create Trap-Conjuration(?)
three spells down. Will keep searching for effective spells.
WOW this is awesome :D
Thanks! :D
Edit: The more I think about it, the more I think that the Landlord feat should pay for the traps. If that is the case, we can probably afford to Spell Turret higher level spells. Their are only 64 turret slots, after all. 500gp is the creation price, so 1000gp should be the cost of having someone else make it (not sure, seems about right though), thus 64 1st lvl Spell Turrets only cost 64,000gp from landlord. I haven't even spent half of the 800,000gp budget from landlord, so their should be plenty of gold to place higher level Turrets.
Power Word Pain-Enchantment(?)
Magic Missile-Evocation
Create Trap-Conjuration(?)
three spells down. Will keep searching for effective spells.
Ray of Enfeeblement - Necromancy
Ray of Enfeeblement - Necromancy
Or lesser shivering touch. Necromancy and it does Dex DAMAGE and therefore, adds up, compared with Ray of Enfeeblement which only gives a Str Penalty, and therefore doesn't stack.
Hmm - range might be a problem though :/ (laughs at self) - Reach Spell might be good for that :D
Ohh - Reach Spell + Bestow Curse... higher level, but hey, if we're talking some 64 turret placements, it might be nice to have *some* higher level turrets.
I wonder if there is some way to exchange places between the horrors and something... maybe use transposition spells, and animated blocks of metal, which are under the effect of the lyre. That would prevent empty spaces when the horrors left.
Plus it might be possible to remove the lyre's effect. That's something that should be watched out for.
Having the horrors go out leaves spaces for people to go in. Nor do they have to teleport, they could simply pass through the walls with the right spell. Plus technically there are rules for squeezing people into the same space.
I wonder if there is some way to exchange places between the horrors and something... maybe use transposition spells, and animated blocks of metal, which are under the effect of the lyre. That would prevent empty spaces when the horrors left.
Plus it might be possible to remove the lyre's effect. That's something that should be watched out for.
I abandoned the whole crowd every space idea, it's a little redundant for most adventures. However, the rules you speak of (for creature same size) refer to out-of-combat movement. The transposition spell idea is interesting though. The Ethereal Solid wall augmentation prevents ethereal intrusion or extrusion.
You're right that their are ways to remove the lyre's effect, though lack of line of sight/line of effect make it difficult. Dead Magic zone, off the top of my head.
eRazOr: Thanks for the suggestions! don't have much time now to digest them properly, but should be rather easy to implement.
As for the construct shock troopers, how about using two sections, then? The constructs could be stored inside a "less secure" launch bay which they can more easily enter and exit. Plus, it's an opportunity to plug anyone foolish enough to enter the bay with even more spell turrets. From outside, they're directly vulnerable to maybe three surfaces. Inside, they've got at least five to contend with.
We could either split the single stronghold space (a basic office plus a guard post still costs 500 GP, though we'd have to shell out an extra 12,000 GP for the interior obdurium wall) or, if someone has money to blow, double up and go to two spaces, for a 40 feet by 20 feet by 10 feet brick of awesome.
Assuming we split the one space (because doubling up on the mobility and other enhancements will drain your pockets fast), we gain a hostile 10'x20'x10' zone. If we cover all but a 10'x10' door/archway, the exterior could still have up to 4+8+8+8+16+16=60 turrets if we limit ourselves to one of these diminutive things per five foot square. (Someone could be targeted by up to 32 at once.) The bay itself could have 0+4+8+8+8+8=36 more. (All of which can attack one target.) And that's still only 96,000 GP worth of purchased level one turrets
If turrets can be programmed to "attack only x" instead of "ignore only x" the constructs (or whatever other guardians) could be continually buffed/repaired within the bay. Alternately, the turrets should be able to power an Energy Transformation Field (within the bay, anyway; not sure whether the effect would follow you if you cast it outside). Casting an ETF costs 5000 GP and 250 XP.
My next question, then, is how do we keep others from simply joining you via teleportation effects? The ethereal solid augmentation helps on some fronts, but a dimensional lock spell seems a worthwhile investment. I don't think it would help with phase door, though. Can the place be completely (not necessarily permanently) secured once you've entered? And as snizor said, no line of sight or line of effect makes it hard for your innermost defenses to be overcome.
I guess the best part is really that this is done for the cost of the landlord feat (or else that's a lot of money out of pocket). All of this is basically in addition to whatever makes up the bulk of a character's build. Take it at 9th level, and by 12th or 13th level, you've got your basic tank going. Fun times
This does require dimensional lock or some similar spell being able to affect an area. Otherwise we need something else...
Yay, found me book!
As for the construct shock troopers, how about using two sections, then? The constructs could be stored inside a "less secure" launch bay which they can more easily enter and exit. Plus, it's an opportunity to plug anyone foolish enough to enter the bay with even more spell turrets. From outside, they're directly vulnerable to maybe three surfaces. Inside, they've got at least five to contend with.
We could either split the single stronghold space (a basic office plus a guard post still costs 500 GP, though we'd have to shell out an extra 12,000 GP for the interior obdurium wall) or, if someone has money to blow, double up and go to two spaces, for a 40 feet by 20 feet by 10 feet brick of awesome.
Assuming we split the one space (because doubling up on the mobility and other enhancements will drain your pockets fast), we gain a hostile 10'x20'x10' zone. If we cover all but a 10'x10' door/archway, the exterior could still have up to 4+8+8+8+16+16=60 turrets if we limit ourselves to one of these diminutive things per five foot square. (Someone could be targeted by up to 32 at once.) The bay itself could have 0+4+8+8+8+8=36 more. (All of which can attack one target.) And that's still only 96,000 GP worth of purchased level one turrets
If turrets can be programmed to "attack only x" instead of "ignore only x" the constructs (or whatever other guardians) could be continually buffed/repaired within the bay. Alternately, the turrets should be able to power an Energy Transformation Field (within the bay, anyway; not sure whether the effect would follow you if you cast it outside). Casting an ETF costs 5000 GP and 250 XP.
My next question, then, is how do we keep others from simply joining you via teleportation effects? The ethereal solid augmentation helps on some fronts, but a dimensional lock spell seems a worthwhile investment. I don't think it would help with phase door, though. Can the place be completely (not necessarily permanently) secured once you've entered? And as snizor said, no line of sight or line of effect makes it hard for your innermost defenses to be overcome.
I guess the best part is really that this is done for the cost of the landlord feat (or else that's a lot of money out of pocket). All of this is basically in addition to whatever makes up the bulk of a character's build. Take it at 9th level, and by 12th or 13th level, you've got your basic tank going. Fun times
About storing the Construct shock troopers, I just realized that that's no longer a problem since we already have a permanent rope trick spell (the hole of hiding that I put in just for kicks now has a use :D ) in the ceiling. However, the splitting into two sections idea may still be useful (though keeping it to 1 ss total would be paramount due to the expensive costs of maneuverability) and the extra 12,000gp is preaty much chump change at this point.
As for interior Stell Turret construct buffs, just program them to ignore all creature types except constructs (perfectly doable). Of course, we do also have an Artificer inside for such a purpuse. The Energy Transformation Field trick looks sick though (use Spell Turrets to power it) with the right spell. Of course the Energy Transformation Field tactic would necessitate the two section design you mentioned earlier so that the door between the rooms could be shut (blocking the spread from entering the main area) and would remove the possibility of offensive Turrets in the bay and teleportatin pads.
Dimension Lock, unfortunantly, would prevent the constructs from being deployed via the Greater platform of Jaunting and I don't plan on having any door between the inside and outside world. Pure teleportation effects to get in or out (I still need to find a magic item to bring the constructs back in).
Edit: Commx may have provided a solution. Was still writing this post when I saw his reply.
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a point in space
Also, the keyed portal can be keyed off Identity. The only problem is that it remains open for a full-round and a 1/day portal doesn't help with the Battle Horrors. May still be useful though.
Edit: Will add the two-section design to the original post for the deluxe version (the basic box is meant to be, well, basic). I'm currently holding off on radical changes until the various kinks in the idea (defenses against teleportation, etc...) are worked out.
Edit: Nevermind to getting the constructs back in, Battle Horrors have dimension door as an SLA 1/day which should be enough to get them in for Persistant Buffificer action.
I wouldnt go as far, since I would want to use it in play, but I love the notion!
I was expecting a Familiar Carrier sized for a medium sized Familiar, but this is better.
I would suggest a piece of Wondrous Architecture that casts Word of Recall,as a retrieval method.
I also like an Item of Wind Walk, for high speed deployment and survivable scouting.Better in the great out doors than in dungeons, but still.
Apply Word of Recall and Wind Walk, Dimension door out, zip around w/Wind Walk,engage targets, use Word of Recall for retrieval.
An Item of Mage’s Magnificent Mansion would solve a lot of problems, of food/and non combat space.
I plan on using one in my T.A.R.D.I.S-ish imitator of your box.39 ten foot cubes is plenty of space.7 x 13 x 1 000 = 91 000. Too much?
Alternatively a properly designed Item of Binding:Minimus Containment could Give you a Bottled City of Krypton.
Put Explosive Runes practically covering the interior of the fortress. That's right, the interior. And build a Dispel magic (5th caster level) trap to target them.
If, in the event enemies have gotten inside your fortress, and are now overpowering you, activate the trap (make sure it has a delay) and retreat to your Rope Trick. Chances are, they'll be either dead or much weaker after that's done. Your stronghold will still be intact (thank you lyre), and your opponents will be easier to take down.
Plus, it's cool.
I have been inspired by your build!
I wouldnt go as far, since I would want to use it in play, but I love the notion!
I was expecting a Familiar Carrier sized for a medium sized Familiar, but this is better.
I would suggest a piece of Wondrous Architecture that casts Word of Recall,as a retrieval method.
I also like an Item of Wind Walk, for high speed deployment and survivable scouting.Better in the great out doors than in dungeons, but still.
Apply Word of Recall and Wind Walk, Dimension door out, zip around w/Wind Walk,engage targets, use Word of Recall for retrieval.
An Item of Mage’s Magnificent Mansion would solve a lot of problems, of food/and non combat space.
I plan on using one in my T.A.R.D.I.S-ish imitator of your box.39 ten foot cubes is plenty of space.7 x 13 x 1 000 = 91 000. Too much?
Alternatively a properly designed Item of Binding:Minimus Containment could Give you a Bottled City of Krypton.
Glad to be of help! :D
The mage's magnificent mansion item sounds fine and does gives some room for a more luxurious lifestyle. I may have to borrow your idea.
Unfortunantly, the Binding spell only affects creatures (so no mini-city
).Wind walk would be useless in my version (since the Horrors already have an airwalk effect and Battle Horrors have dimension door), but doesn't look that bad at all.
Enjoy the flying box!
Edit: snakeman830: Nice idea! Will probably incorperate it at some point. Seems I'm getting more and more of these, so I need to make a list in the original post.
Everything imaginable would be included,and a full staff of professionals would be bound inside.Any thing that was forgotten could be built.
The Binding vessel itself would have to made via Fabricate.
It works because Minimus Containment doesnt prevent the target(s) from using any of its abilities, it just binds them inside the "jar".
Hey, I know this is a fluff question, but what will your Box look like?
The container that you would bind into would be a fully furnished city/state a mini Deathstar if you will.
Everything imaginable would be included,and a full staff of professionals would be bound inside.Any thing that was forgotten could be built.
The Binding vessel itself would have to made via Fabricate.
It works because Minimus Containment doesnt prevent the target(s) from using any of its abilities, it just binds them inside the "jar".
Hey, I know this is a fluff question, but what will your Box look like?
Sorry for misunderstanding. Sounds very cool :D
I haven't given much though to the look of the Box yet since their are still mechanical aspects to address. Perhaps make it look like a piece of cheese? I even considered making it look like a Tetris piece and having a few of them commanded by cohort/followers so that I can ask the druid to to join me for a game.
Looks like the Dimension Lock problem is solved as long as the effect is confinet to the cabin only (leaving the bay unaffected due to lack of Line-of-Effect).
For the Explosive Rune wallpaper, I'll probably just craft an Eternal Wand (10,900gp on the open marked. Cheaper though item creation).
instead of deploying them in and out of the box, cant you just have an open platform (like a hangar) hanging off the bottom of the stronghold? they can get on and off of it by conventional means, and require less magic and cost to do so. alternatively, they can just stand there and fire at your enemies if its unsafe for them to move about...
sure, they will be less protected, but they are constructs. build more when they are destroyed.
for the constructs:
instead of deploying them in and out of the box, cant you just have an open platform (like a hangar) hanging off the bottom of the stronghold? they can get on and off of it by conventional means, and require less magic and cost to do so. alternatively, they can just stand there and fire at your enemies if its unsafe for them to move about...
sure, they will be less protected, but they are constructs. build more when they are destroyed.
Nuh-uh. Why?
Barbarian: "I ready an action to charge the ramp!"
alternatively, you could have little handles on the bottom (or back or side like a trash truck) for your constructs to hang on to, and shoot their magic missiles with the other hand. like on MechAssault! :D
Nuh-uh. Why?
Barbarian: "I ready an action to charge the ramp!"
Seems someone gets the reason for no old-fashioned doors. As I said in earlier posts, the problem of entrance/exit has been corrected for via Greater Platform of Jaunting (outward) and Dimension Door SLA (Battle Horror, entrance). The Dimensional Lock effect now only applies to the cabin, not the bay. Anyone entering the bay is subject to Dispel Magic trap+ Explosive Rune wallpaper as well as interior spell turret defenses (as well as any constructs in the bay being buffed by other Spell Turrets). The door between the bay and the cabin will of course be heavily secured.
Edit: Alternate handles on the outside sound useful. The main reason for bringing them inside is for buffing via infusions or Spell Turrets. The ability of the constructs to take advantage of the box's movement is very useful (I have GOT to find a better name for this contraption). Assume the handles added.
I have GOT to find a better name for this contraption
A name? how about just having the peasants call it god?
On a more serious note, you could call it a megazord; that is assuming you can get the other PC's in the party to make their own versions of it and you could have them get combined in some way any time an enemy cast 'enlarge person' on themselves...
A name? how about just having the peasants call it god?
On a more serious note, you could call it a megazord; that is assuming you can get the other PC's in the party to make their own versions of it and you could have them get combined in some way any time an enemy cast 'enlarge person' on themselves...
Ahh...
Similar to the old fusion-lich concept (206 Demi-liches connected to one another to form a human skeleton).
Sovereign glue with an effective Universal Solvent dispenser would make them "stick" together.
Having peasents call it God is probably more realistic though...
Edit: Came up with an idea, the Borg Cube (I know that 20*20*10 isn't technically a cube, but the feeling invoked by the box is similar. Heck, it even has its own drones).
the Borg Cube
i thought of that too, but i didnt want to sound too nerdy. :P
so how fast could this thing destroy towns of various sizes, with disintegrate rays and magic missiles and such?
also if it had turrets that shot out 'soften earth and stone' (prehaps needing a 'create water' before that to get WET earth) you could just sink an entire town, given enough time. but that is hardly OPTIMAL.
i thought of that too, but i didnt want to sound too nerdy. :P
so how fast could this thing destroy towns of various sizes, with disintegrate rays and magic missiles and such?
also if it had turrets that shot out 'soften earth and stone' (prehaps needing a 'create water' before that to get WET earth) you could just sink an entire town, given enough time. but that is hardly OPTIMAL.
"Didn't want to sound too nerdy"
This is the CO boards. Besides, a series of TV shows that has been going off and on for 30 years is hardly the most nerdy thing on these boards.
As for how lond it would take to destroy a city, it would depend on the # of disintegrate rays per round. Spell Turrets are not optimal for this endeavor (seeing as they target creatures, not landmarks
) so disintegrate cannons would require custom magic items. A command-word activated disintegrate cannon slotless costs 237,600gp on the open marked (minimum caster level). Command-word is supplied by the drones.Their has GOT to be a better way of leveling towns than this.
Edit: Perhaps a Tornado's Eye (creates Tornado-level winds around the stronghold), originally in SBG, but reprinted in Draconomicon would help.
Tornado (CR 10)
All flames are extinguished. All ranged attacks are impossible (even with siege weapons), as are Listen checks. Instead of being blown away (see Table: Wind Effects), characters in close proximity to a tornado who fail their Fortitude saves are sucked toward the tornado. Those who come in contact with the actual funnel cloud are picked up and whirled around for 1d10 rounds, taking 6d6 points of damage per round, before being violently expelled (falling damage may apply). While a tornado’s rotational speed can be as great as 300 mph, the funnel itself moves forward at an average of 30 mph (roughly 250 feet per round). A tornado uproots trees, destroys buildings, and causes other similar forms of major destruction.
We have a winner!
A cheaper, but weaker, option is the Cloudgathering orb.
now exactly how tall is this tornado?sounds like a cool and climactic way to move your Happy Meal of Doom around, surrounded by a tornado. plus, everyone will blame those dastardly druids!
Undefined in the rules.
so at what level could i afford an intermediate version of this box, assuming the landlord and leadership feats?
I'll get back to you on that (it's almost 2am here, not the best time for such calculations).
Basics:
Exterior Walls: Obdurium= 60,000gp*1ss (stronghold space)*80%= 48,000gp
Lead-lining: 1,000gp
Component: basic office+Guard Post= 500gp
Locomotion: Incredible= 25,000gp
Mobility Forms:
Flying= 15,000gp
Burrowing= 10,000gp
Submersing= 7,500gp
Crawling= 1,000gp
Wall Augmentations:
Airtight= 7,500gp
Ethereal Solid= 12,000gp
Magically Treated= 12,000gp
Wonderous Architecture:
Hole of Hiding= 3,000gp
================================================
base cost 141,500gp
-how much for an all-day lyre of building?-perhaps the effect could be extended/persisted cheaper?
-cost for spell turrets at each level/recommended spells.
-cost for varying turret types (buffing, attack, aid.)
-stats and cost per construct type.
-how much exp it would cost for an artificer character to make all this.
-how do i see out of it?
-what happens if i run into an antimagic field? how do i avoid this?
-how would someone who must breathe going to survive inside?
-would it be feasible to do this as a 15th lv PC wizard(-type character) with a lv13 artificer cohort? in this instance, how much more awesome could this be made if my cohort had the landlord feat as well?
Hey, I know this is a fluff question, but what will your Box look like?
A pepperpot, of course.
EX-TER-MIN-ATE
ok here is my version of an intermediate box (just the box, no turrets or constructs). at the bottom i added some questions that should be answered to more effectively field this device:
Basics:
Exterior Walls: Obdurium= 60,000gp*1ss (stronghold space)*80%= 48,000gp
Lead-lining: 1,000gp
Component: basic office+Guard Post= 500gp
Locomotion: Incredible= 25,000gp
Mobility Forms:
Flying= 15,000gp
Burrowing= 10,000gp
Submersing= 7,500gp
Crawling= 1,000gp
Wall Augmentations:
Airtight= 7,500gp
Ethereal Solid= 12,000gp
Magically Treated= 12,000gp
Wonderous Architecture:
Hole of Hiding= 3,000gp
================================================
base cost 141,500gp
-how much for an all-day lyre of building?-perhaps the effect could be extended/persisted cheaper?
-cost for spell turrets at each level/recommended spells.
-cost for varying turret types (buffing, attack, aid.)
-stats and cost per construct type.
-how much exp it would cost for an artificer character to make all this.
-how do i see out of it?
-what happens if i run into an antimagic field? how do i avoid this?
-how would someone who must breathe going to survive inside?
-would it be feasible to do this as a 15th lv PC wizard(-type character) with a lv13 artificer cohort? in this instance, how much more awesome could this be made if my cohort had the landlord feat as well?
Looks about right from the component side of things. Remember in an actual campaign that you get a 30% discount due to free labor. Now, for some of your questions:
-As for the lyre of building, an at-will version (assuming custom magic items) is 65,000gp on the market.
-Currently, the level 1 attack spell turret costs 1000gp. Their are recommended spells for it in the original post (recently added). Just remember that they can be charged to landlord funds.
-Battle Horrors cost 76,500gp to create (before Artisan feats) while the Helmed Horror costs 39,150gp to create.
-An Artificer would probably be best off letting the Landlord funds purchase the stuff at market price. Construct XP costs can be derived from the costs above.
-Something I've been meaning to address (suprised no one asked about it earlier :D ). Currently, a Periscope seems the easiest solution that doesn't let enemies obtain line-of-sight (and helps when underwater).
-Antimagic Fields: The walls break line-of-effect, so the interior remains unaffected. Anti-magic fields can be avoided via borrowing into the ground.
-Bottle of Air should do the trick (Price 7,250 gp).
- A level 15 + level 13 cohort with landlord would have a combined 400,000gp. 250,000gp from landlord without cohort. So, it looks like it should cover all of your stronghold expenses:D .
PS: With leadership+Undead leadership stacking and landlord abuse, i've gotton allowances of over 26 million gold.
Edit: Mad Linguist: Perfect!!!!
- Make it a cube and call it Ramiel
- If you do have it surrounded by a tornado, then how 'bout Tepellin? (Not like I expect anyone to get this one, even if the previous one kinda helps...)
Is it just me, or does Control Winds look incredibly powerful? Tornado force winds are nasty. Of course, Freedom of Movement would make you immune to them.
Ideas for the name:
- Make it a cube and call it Ramiel
- If you do have it surrounded by a tornado, then how 'bout Tepellin? (Not like I expect anyone to get this one, even if the previous one kinda helps...)
Tepellin... Episode 14 of Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann (Google-fu to the rescue :D ).
PhaedrusXY: Looks like Control Winds is what the Tornado's Eye is based off of. You're right, it does look powerful (i've already incorperated the Tornado's Eye into the deluxe version. Constant tornado surrounding the Cube/Ramiel/Tepellin is awesome). Tornado-force winds also destroy buildings (something that Spell Turrets cannot) and are one of the most optimal ways of destroying cities (who needs a Nuclear Apocalypse when a fifth level druid spell will suffice). Control Weather looks good as well.
Cloudgathering orb should be slid in as well. Thunderstorms/sleet/blizzards (depending on season) in a 2-mile radius with a 680ft radius tornado in the center.
Edit: For the Tornado's Eye, using the Control Winds spell as a guideline, the winds should be 40ft high and have a radius of 680ft (in answer to an earlier question).
---what about turrets of higher levels? what is the highest level of spell that can be put into one of these puppies?
-Battle Horrors cost 76,500gp to create (before Artisan feats) while the Helmed Horror costs 39,150gp to create.
---
that is doable with some abuse, but if i abuse this too much then i could reasonably fear some major DM wrath. What is a recommended number of these things? Also do you have them statted out? and are there ways of improving them?-Something I've been meaning to address (suprised no one asked about it earlier :D ). Currently, a Periscope seems the easiest solution that doesn't let enemies obtain line-of-sight (and helps when underwater).
---periscopes dont give you aline of sight in all directions. could there be a way to make the walls invisible temporarily or something?
-Antimagic Fields: The walls break line-of-effect, so the interior remains unaffected.
---if the outside is affected, then no spell turrets? how are the constructs affected? would the box's movement/locomotion (flight/etc.) be taken away? would the box crash to the ground?
-Currently, the level 1 attack spell turret costs 1000gp.
---what about turrets of higher levels? what is the highest level of spell that can be put into one of these puppies?
-Battle Horrors cost 76,500gp to create (before Artisan feats) while the Helmed Horror costs 39,150gp to create.
---
-Something I've been meaning to address (suprised no one asked about it earlier :D ). Currently, a Periscope seems the easiest solution that doesn't let enemies obtain line-of-sight (and helps when underwater).
---periscopes dont give you aline of sight in all directions. could there be a way to make the walls invisible temporarily or something?
-Antimagic Fields: The walls break line-of-effect, so the interior remains unaffected.
---if the outside is affected, then no spell turrets? how are the constructs affected? would the box's movement/locomotion (flight/etc.) be taken away? would the box crash to the ground?
-- A Spell Turret storing 9th level spells costs 76,500gp to create (not market price) so theoretically, A 9th level spell turret could be created as a form of "main gun" with lower level turrets as support weaponry.
--Yeah, they are expensive, 2-4 of them would be sufficient. They are primarily meant to serve as special forces for tasks that mindless Spell Turrets are unsuited for. Regardless of the type of construct used, you will never have an army (constructs just cost too much for that). They do have advancement via HD rules (default is 20hd, +4,000gp to create for extra hd) and come with +5 Full-plate and can give their weapon a random magic weapon ability (list in book). I can't post full Battle Horror stats due to Code of Conduct. Just remember, the Battle Horrors and lyre of building are the only things that really come out of your wealth-by-level.
-- Going over the eyesight, a caster with Arcane Eye could serve as a periscope (have the eye move throygha 1-inch periscope shaped pipe). Also, their is nothing in the rules limiting the rotation of the stronghold. Move 88ft, spin 360 degrees, done!
--Antimagic Field: You are correct that you loose Spell Turrets, however, Battle Horrors can still be lauched from the inside. Constructs are not disabled by AMF (though SLAs are lost), so they are good to go. Unless the AMF caster is an initiate of Mystra, the Battle Horrors should be sufficient to kill them. Also, the new Tornado's Eye works just fine in an AMF. Falling to the ground shouldn't be a problem since AMF only has a 10ft radius. The moment you leave that tiny area, the movement functions of the stronghold should kick in. Sure AMF leaves it slightly vunerably, but it is hardly helpless.
Thanks for the questions.
First, a Hallow or Unhallow spell with a Dimensional Anchor effect targeting creatures not of your faith (pick a good one) might keep unwanted teleportation out.
Second, the Dungeon Lord PrC from Dungeonscape could be a useful, or at least amusing, class choice. Maybe for your senechal.
Why would the constructs come out of your pocket? they are defending your stronghold. same with the lyre. remember that any donations you make out-of-pocket are matched with the landlord funds, unless i read that incorrectly.
im also trying to poke holes in your idea before i play test it and one of my DMs pokes holes in it...
RANDOM QUESTION TIME!!!
-can these turrets be made mobile? if so it would be easier to have an army of them instead of the unattainable army of constructs.
-if you had a periscope that your arcane eye would travel through, then wouldnt that make your box no longer airtight?
-couldnt you have walls of force create windows? or some kind of magic see-through windows?
-alternatively, could you just scry outside of your box, to get a 3rd-person view? or does the box prevent scrying from the inside-out?
-not a questions, but you should look in the arms-and-equipment guide (i think) because it has stuff to enhance vehicles, including extradimensional storage and other sorts of special goodies...
EDIT: i dont deploy my constructs from the inside, i would have them hang on the outside. I could easily figure out a way to buff them once a day without needing a jaunting platform specifically for it. a way to beam people up would be cool.
Two things:
First, a Hallow or Unhallow spell with a Dimensional Anchor effect targeting creatures not of your faith (pick a good one) might keep unwanted teleportation out.
Second, the Dungeon Lord PrC from Dungeonscape could be a useful, or at least amusing, class choice. Maybe for your senechal.
Dungeon Lord: Indeed it is amusing. Some of its abilities are lackluster for such a tiny stronghold, but their is probably enough there that it wouldn't be that bad. Probably better for a cohort than the main PC.
Dimensional Anchor: Nice idea! Hallow/Unhallow + Dimensional Anchor replicates the Dimension Lock effect without interfering with the PC or Battle Horrors (they have an INT score of over 10, they can certainly share the same faith as you).
Edit:
questbreaker:
1. I'm trying to be as conservative as possible with what landlord covers (only applying it to things specifically discussed in SBG, like traps, wonderous arcitecture, etc...). If your DM allows for Landlord to cover them, then by all means go wild!
2. Mobilte Turrets would be very difficult since they are a form of immobile trap. The best I can think of is using the SBG to create a mobile free-standing wall and attach the turret to that. However, the conditions for piloting mobile strongholds would require each moving wall to be manned. The lack of construct armies is something I realized when I began a (now defunct due to impending 4E release) Mechonomicon guide to the Craft Construct feat.
3. Just put a shutter on the periscope to seal it up after use (Try to get the spell extended of course). However, the stronghold can simply rotate 360 degrees, rendering the Arcane Eye periscope moot and a more traditional periscope perfectly acceptable.
4. Walls of Force would, unfortunantly, give line-of-sight and are hard to scale down. Not that bad anymore due to the Hallow+Dimension Lock effect allowing me to Teleport-proof both sections without worry though. May have to reconsider it (add some curtains inside though for alone-time). Also, walls of Force come with their own disadvantages (Rod of Cancellation)
5. Scry spell target a person, not an object. Clairvoyance is the object equivalent and remains stationary
6. Probably will check it out later.
Edit: BTW, any DM can poke a hole in this rather easily via mage's disjunction. Then again, that spell screws practically EVERY character in existance, so no big suprise.
Also, I think there's a thread finding the lowest level version of each spell. Using that would be a good idea to optimize your turrets.
If you do make it targeting your faith, you should really consider worshiping yourself. That way, anyone who can get in is 100% loyal.
Also, I think there's a thread finding the lowest level version of each spell. Using that would be a good idea to optimize your turrets.
All spells in a Spell Turret must come from the same list, unfortunantly.
how much does a Mages Mansion item cost, for a once per day, 24 hour duration item?
What about a way to dispel a mages dysjunction attack? like a turret that could cast it specifically to counter any incoming dysjunctions?
and mobile platforms would be cool for the constructs (or other PCs) to ride about on. they could land them and go fight while the turret attacks from its temporary stationary position. then hop on them and ride away. makes a good getaway too. and good for going in town.
is there a weight limit to what can be tacked onto the outside of this thing?
So clairvoyance on the box fixes our 'seeing outside' problem.
how much does a Mages Mansion item cost, for a once per day, 24 hour duration item?
What about a way to dispel a mages dysjunction attack? like a turret that could cast it specifically to counter any incoming dysjunctions?
and mobile platforms would be cool for the constructs (or other PCs) to ride about on. they could land them and go fight while the turret attacks from its temporary stationary position. then hop on them and ride away. makes a good getaway too. and good for going in town.
is there a weight limit to what can be tacked onto the outside of this thing?
-Yep it does.
-Spell Turrets won't do it, and their is very little that can be done about Mage's Disjunction short of having a full-time counterspeller nearby. Remember that ANY PC that is subject to that effect is basically screwed against an appropriate CR encounter due to the high value of magic items in PC power in 3.5. Compared to most builds, this one gets off light. The Hallow+Dimensional Anchor is still in place and Obdurium walls are the toughest around. The exterior Spell Turrets are out of commission, but the interior magic items are still working and the Battle Horrors are just fine. I'll check the custom trap rules to see if a counterspeling trap is possible though.
-Mobile platforms are fun, the only problem is that they are costly to aquire and leave the piloting PC vunerable to attack. Mobile platforming could very well be its own, unique build though and would be very fun (coordinate between PCs to entrap enemies).
- No weight limit.
-Mage's Magnificent Mansion item 1/day, caster level 13
(1800*13*7)/5= 32,760gp, very reasonable and lasts 26 hrs
so assuming a dysjunction hit this box, how could you recover from it?
also, for forays into town in which you actually want to interact with people, could you just shrink this vehicle and put it in a portable hole? so you can get out and walk around. would you have to get everyone out of the inside of it?
I love this idea! A while back i made a vampire character with a necropolitan cleric cohort and i owned an airship (zeppelin) but i had to pay for the ship out of pocket, which is vicious. but it was fun having an airship, with my coffin on it, and my undead hanging about on it. buying all the things to make it nice was fun, it was a great way to get around, and this is just yet another way to live that life with a different character.
so assuming a dysjunction hit this box, how could you recover from it?
also, for forays into town in which you actually want to interact with people, could you just shrink this vehicle and put it in a portable hole? so you can get out and walk around. would you have to get everyone out of the inside of it?
Recovery: finish the adventure as fast as possible, get out via Platform of Jaunting, and build some level 1 offensive spell turrets. One of the advantages of lower level turrets is that they are easy to replace (creation price of 500gp each).
Town entry: Portable hole is too small and shrinkage
You are able to shrink one nonmagical item
doesn't work (the stronghold is certainly not nonmagical). A Bag of Holding doesn't work either. Perhaps the Enveloping Pit from Magic Item Compendium (I know it's deeper, but not sure if it's wider)? For townward entrance, I suggest that followers from leadership have Craft Wonderous Item so that reprogramming the turrets to ignore commoners doesn't take 8hrs per turret (many hands make light work).
and wouldnt your box have a will save against the dysjunction?
is there no way to reverse the effects of the dysjunction? wish or miracle or the like?
and wouldnt your box have a will save against the dysjunction?
Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent’s successful save, a foe’s successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend’s failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies.
Technically, each individual magical item/effect (spell turret, etc) gets a save.
Drowvampyre:
any ways other than this would drastically reduce your combat effectiveness.
wait, couldnt the tornado from your tornado obr block the line of sight for the disjunction?
Powerful Storms
Very high winds and torrential precipitation reduce visibility to zero, making Spot, Search, and Listen checks and all ranged weapon attacks impossible. Unprotected flames are automatically extinguished, and protected flames have a 75% chance of being doused. Creatures caught in the area must make a DC 20 Fortitude save or face the effects based on the size of the creature (see Table: Wind Effects). Powerful storms are divided into the following four types.
Tornado being one of the types of Powerful Storm.
Line of Effect
A line of effect is a straight, unblocked path that indicates what a spell can affect. A line of effect is canceled by a solid barrier. It’s like line of sight for ranged weapons, except that it’s not blocked by fog, darkness, and other factors that limit normal sight.
Sorry, not quite. However, it does give some defense against MD since they can't see exactly where you are.
I guess a cohort is the best we can do for now. Oh well, at least Artificer followers means that all the destroyed lvl 1 turrets can be rebuilt in 24 hours (the same followers that help reprogram for town entry).
i ninjedited my post because i realized that the dysjunction is a burst centered on the caster.
It's a burst, but not centered on the caster.
we definitely need a defense against dysjunction, because trying to pull this stunt in a game will most likely provoke major DM wrath.
hmm. the tornado would also mess with your line of sight for turrets and such, but i think the constructs have true sight or some such? they could direct fire in that case.
we definitely need a defense against dysjunction, because trying to pull this stunt in a game will most likely provoke major DM wrath.
Spell Turrets are built with True Seeing as part of their construction. I that doesn't work, constructs can indeed direct fire (the usefulness of an intelligence score is truelly beyond measure). Ironically, the Battle Horror only has see invisibility, but that can be handled via a buffing turret on the inside.
Well Tornado-force winds do cause concentration checks (trivial checks, but still checks). But it appears that the cohort slot is now full. We need an effective 18 level counterspelling build that can stay on the roof without falling off.
Phaedrus: Interesting solution, now... to figure out how to pull it off.
(Minor hitch: Spell Turrets are still destroyed, but at least the wall augmentations are intact.
Contingencies: Craft Contingent Spell perhaps? (but how to create that box via a single spell is difficult. Perhaps summoning a premade box would be easier.)
Edit: Contingent Teleport Object (via Craft Contingent Spell) to teleport a single wall in front of the MDJ may work (bursts don't go around corners and a wall is a solid barrier).
Contingencies: Craft Contingent Spell perhaps? (but how to create that box via a single spell is difficult. Perhaps summoning a premade box would be easier.)
Edit: Contingent Teleport Object (via Craft Contingent Spell) to teleport a single wall in front of the MDJ may work (bursts don't go around corners and a wall is a solid barrier).
Could a wall of force stop it? if so, just have a contingent casting of wall of force (it would have to be 40*40ft at least) cast at a point in space so as to intercept and effectively block the incoming dysjunction.
now, would someone or something have to detect the dysjunction as it is being cast via a spellcraft check?
Could a wall of force stop it? if so, just have a contingent casting of wall of force (it would have to be 40*40ft at least) cast at a point in space so as to intercept and effectively block the incoming dysjunction.
now, would someone or something have to detect the dysjunction as it is being cast via a spellcraft check?
Contingent Wall of Force= Energy shielding (mayby. Is immediatly destroyed by MDJ, but protects the box?). If not, we got a back-up though
Away from my copy of Compete Arcane (where Craft Contingent Spell is from) so I can't answer that question now, unfortunantly.
MDJ takes wall of force out? i thought it only affected magic ITEMS, not summoned walls of force
However, disintegrate immediately destroys it, as does a rod of cancellation, a sphere of annihilation, or a mage’s disjunction spell
MDJ is a vicious little spell.
All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are separated into their individual components (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item. An item in a creature’s possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor’s Will save bonus, whichever is higher.
You also have a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. If the antimagic field survives the disjunction, no items within it are disjoined.
Even artifacts are subject to disjunction, though there is only a 1% chance per caster level of actually affecting such powerful items. Additionally, if an artifact is destroyed, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities. (These abilities cannot be recovered by mortal magic, not even miracle or wish.)
Note: Destroying artifacts is a dangerous business, and it is 95% likely to attract the attention of some powerful being who has an interest in or connection with the device.
A Wall of Force is a spell effect. MDJ automatically ends all spell effects within its area, except AMF.
Ninja'd you with spell descriptions.
The Wall of Force would however force the MDJ to discharge at the Wall (40ft burst from that point) rather than next to the box.
Anyways, I guess the Teleport object trick will be neccesary for true defense. More costly, less elegent, but doable.
Edit: One could try to argue that MDJ doesn't procede past the destroyed hinderence since it lacks the clause that fireball has
If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.
and is also a different form of area (burst vs spread). However, it's less of a rules headache to just use Teleport Object.
Just for fun (if it's possible), have a Contingency Baleful Transposition (with the Teleporting going off if it fails) to switch places with the offending caster when he casts said MDJ. That'll teach him a lesson about trying to usurp the Glorious Leader!
that is a GREAT idea!
Just for fun (if it's possible), have a Contingency Baleful Transposition (with the Teleporting going off if it fails) to switch places with the offending caster when he casts said MDJ. That'll teach him a lesson about trying to usurp the Glorious Leader!
Doesn't quite work
All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined
I really hate to be a the party pooper
(At least assuming you were trying to destroy their items via their own disjunction). Mad Linguist: The only problem with that is getting said minor artifacts without DM fiat.
Reading Contingent Spell item... Damn doesn't work (see page 139 of Complete Arcane for reasons why). Well, we know that the LoE that MDJ requires can be broken via teleporting a wall with Teleport Object between the caster and the box. Now the trouble is getting that spell effect off just prior to MDJ being cast. Contingencies affect a person, not an object, so a contingency on the box doesn't work (same happens with Craft Contingent Spell) since a person is never really being targeted (only the wall of the box). Trap rules won't suffice either since trap trigger options don't cover it. How do we get the LoE breaker without strapping a cohort caster using the ready action every round to the roof?
Edit: Idea time! Have a cohort caster inside the box looking outward. Have him ready an action to cast Teleport Object when he sees someone cast MDJ (yes, this will require a Spellcraft check to identify). Of course, now we have to store the wall inside the box, but they can be inch-thick for all I care.
Doesn't quite work.
Damn, that's what I get for not checking the description before replying.
i mean, if were are having a caster with a contingent spell and whatnot, why not just a contingent AMF, since even if that gets dysjoined nothing within it gets dysjoined. just AMF with the spell aim metamagic to surround the box or the caster or the caster of the dysjunction or something, to keep it from going off.
alternatively, (i had a DM pull this on me once) shoot the MDJ caster with a crossbow whose bolt carries an AMF. when it hits, its stuck in the offending caster. will this work or is this DM cheese? (we have caught him in many rule fudgings...)
well if another caster is needed, why not just have him ready to counterspell the MJD or better yet have a greater dispel prepared? seems simpler...
i mean, if were are having a caster with a contingent spell and whatnot, why not just a contingent AMF, since even if that gets dysjoined nothing within it gets dysjoined. just AMF with the spell aim metamagic to surround the box or the caster or the caster of the dysjunction or something, to keep it from going off.
alternatively, (i had a DM pull this on me once) shoot the MDJ caster with a crossbow whose bolt carries an AMF. when it hits, its stuck in the offending caster. will this work or is this DM cheese? (we have caught him in many rule fudgings...)
In order to counterspell, the cohort would have to be on the outside of the box, while teleportiong walls can be done from the inside. Also it's using the ready action to cast, not a contingent spell.
The problem with a spell aimed AMF is that the turrets wouldn't be able to fire since they are Spell Turrets.
would burrowing damage the outside spell turrets?
They remain merged with the material of the wall until use (Spell Turret description), so no.
sweet. so what other parts of this box do we still need to quantify / flesh out?
Currently fleshed out (no particular order):
1. Defense against MDJ- Cohort Caster using Teleport Object to break LoE
2. Town destruction- Tornado's Eye
3. Air supply- Bottle of Air
4. Level 1 exterior turrets- See original post
5. Defense against Teleportation- Hallow+Dimensional Anchor
6. Defense against Incorporial Intrusion- Ethereal Solid augmentation
7. Mobility options- See original post
8. Enterance/Exit of Constructs/you into box- Greater Platform of Jaunting/ Dimension Door SLA
9. Seeing- Clairvoyance effect (rotating periscope)
10. Continuous Mind Blank effect- Secure Chamber
11. Constructs used- Battle Horrors (LEoF)
12. Luxury space- Mage's Magnificent Mansion item
13. Explosive Rune Wallpaper for the bay- Eternal Wand+ Dispel Magic trap
14. Construct Storage- Hole of Hiding
15. Defense against physical attack- Lyre of Building
Things that need quantification:
1. Interior buffing Spell Turrets
2. Higher level Exterior Spell Turret spells
For simplicities sake:
Spell Turret spell selection guidelines
-Four different schools
-Same level
-Same spell list
-4 spells total
-Four different schools
-Same level
-Same spell list
-4 spells total
lv2-
ice knife (conj)
ray of stupidity (ench)
rainbow beam (evoc)
ironthunder horn? (tran)
lv3-
ice lance (conj)
ray of dizziness (ench)
sound lance (evoc)
spell vulnerability (trans)
lv4-
orb of ____ (conj)
thunderlance (evoc)
enervation (necr)
rainbow pattern (illu)
lv5-
vitrolic sphere (conj)
cyclonic blast (evoc)
miasma of entropy (necr)
earth reaver (tran)
lv6-
acid storm (conj)
chain lightning (evoc)
ray of entropy (necr)
extract water elemental (trans)
lv7-
antimagic ray (abju)
stun ray (conj)
radiant assault (evoc)
glass strike (tran)
lv8-
field of icy razors (evoc)
incendiary cloud (conj)
power word stun (ench)
polymorph any object (tran)
lv9-
imprisonment (abju)
sphere of ultimate destruction (conj)
transmute rock to lava (tran)
meteor swarm (evoc)
below are a few baseline suggestions for spells of various levels to put in the turrets. im sure some of them will need to be changed, so hack away!
lv2-
ice knife (conj)
ray of stupidity (ench)
rainbow beam (evoc)
ironthunder horn? (tran)
lv3-
ice lance (conj)
ray of dizziness (ench)
sound lance (evoc)
spell vulnerability (trans)
lv4-
orb of ____ (conj)
thunderlance (evoc)
enervation (necr)
rainbow pattern (illu)
lv5-
vitrolic sphere (conj)
cyclonic blast (evoc)
miasma of entropy (necr)
earth reaver (tran)
lv6-
acid storm (conj)
chain lightning (evoc)
ray of entropy (necr)
extract water elemental (trans)
lv7-
antimagic ray (abju)
stun ray (conj)
radiant assault (evoc)
glass strike (tran)
lv8-
field of icy razors (evoc)
incendiary cloud (conj)
power word stun (ench)
polymorph any object (tran)
lv9-
imprisonment (abju)
sphere of ultimate destruction (conj)
transmute rock to lava (tran)
meteor swarm (evoc)
NICE list! Thanks.
Did a check via the Spell Index.
Imprisonment doesn't work since it has a range of touch (Spell Turret can technically cast the spell, but won't be able to touch anything)
Other than that though, they all seem to work (same list and same level). Will be added to the original post.
Imprisonment doesn't work since it has a range of touch (Spell Turret can technically cast the spell, but won't be able to touch anything).
How about Effulgent Epuration to replace it? I'm not sure how if that'd work cast from a turret, but it'd give added defense if so. If it has to be offense, there's Maw of Chaos, which could help against enemy spellcasters... Or, if you can put metamagicked spells in there...how about a Fell Animated/Fell Drained somethingorother?
How about Effulgent Epuration to replace it? I'm not sure how if that'd work cast from a turret, but it'd give added defense if so. If it has to be offense, there's Maw of Chaos, which could help against enemy spellcasters... Or, if you can put metamagicked spells in there...how about a Fell Animated/Fell Drained somethingorother?
Effulgnet Eruption: From what I can tell (backing by the Stoneskin buffing summons example, which isn't actually practical) the Turret could be told to shift the effect to a Battle Horror, mayby. It's a very fuzzy area with that form of trap.
Maw of Chaos: Works just fine :D
Magic Miasma: Nice looking spell. Would work
BTW: Metamagiced spells should be workable.
and with an 8th level turret using polymorph any object, you could change stuff into masterwork full plate armor to cheapen the cost of your next construct.
The Turrets target Creatures not items. So we'll have to settle with turning an enemy into a harmless bunny.
The Turrets target Creatures not items. So we'll have to settle with turning an enemy into a harmless bunny.
A harmless bunny? Look at the bones!!
For added humiliation, I'd turn them into cows or something, then hold a big charity barbecue at the nearest city every few times some hapless schmucks stumbled along and decided the Deathbox was a good target.
A harmless bunny? Look at the bones!!
For added humiliation, I'd turn them into cows or something, then hold a big charity barbecue at the nearest city every few times some hapless schmucks stumbled along and decided the Deathbox was a good target.
Indeed:D
Additioally, cows make great Flesh to Salt targets (old infinite wealth trick)
Indeed:D
Additioally, cows make great Flesh to Salt targets (old infinite wealth trick)
For that matter, turn them into mink or ermine, kill, then fabricate into noble/royal clothing. And if you're evil (or just really vindictive), well...you could always send a nice new, expensive fur coat to D. D. Dee's relatives for Christmas...
oh yeah if someone DOES manage to get inside your box, you should have a sanctum spell prepared for them.
i would just make them into statues for my mausoleum.
oh yeah if someone DOES manage to get inside your box, you should have a sanctum spell prepared for them.
Sufficed to say, their are numerous delicious options for PaO.
Interior defense: The bay has Explosive Rune wallpaper that can be detonated via failed dispel magic. Just put some level 1 spell turrets in each of the rooms.
Anyways, I'm planning on making a couple varients of the flying box. The first will be smaller than the current version (fits in an Enveloping Pit) and looks like the Pepperpot from post 44. The second will be, well, lets just say that it will be larger
.The big things at the start of this movie.
i was thinking about making a larger one for playtesting. unless i could use landlord funds to pay for constructs, in which case i think i would rather have a construct army...
The problem I discovered with construct armies is that even the cheapest, most useless combat constructs run in the 5-20 thousand gp range. If you want a kind of army, you're better off having 1 or 2 Battle Horrors who lead undead skelies and zombies created via magic (tell them to follow the commands of your constructs).
As far as this build, being 1 storage space actually has its advantages. You can actually fit in larger dungeons and it costs less (by a lot). My larger varient will be a radical departure from the current design.
Snakeman: Those giant things are WAY more than 20ft*20ft*10ft. They are taller than many of the surrounding buildings. However, it would be absolutly PERFECT visual for the larger varient i'm working up (I was going to use the visual of the Crawling City of Gehanna in Manual of the Planes, but this will do nicely).
Snakeman: Those giant things are WAY more than 20ft*20ft*10ft. They are taller than many of the surrounding buildings. However, it would be absolutly PERFECT visual for the larger varient i'm working up (I was going to use the visual of the Crawling City of Gehanna in Manual of the Planes, but this will do nicely).
Yeah, it was rather late here when i posted. I meant to say the largest one.
If you want to see a better picture (and a more complete one), rent the movie Appleseed.
If I can find a better picture, I'll put it here.
Question on the 6th level Spell Turret. Why "Extract Water Elemental" over "Disintegrate"? (I have never seen EWE, so don't yell at me for being stupid).
Yeah, it was rather late here when i posted. I meant to say the largest one.
If you want to see a better picture (and a more complete one), rent the movie Appleseed.
If I can find a better picture, I'll put it here.
Question on the 6th level Spell Turret. Why "Extract Water Elemental" over "Disintegrate"? (I have never seen EWE, so don't yell at me for being stupid).
Extract Water Elemental has a few advantages:
1. No ranged touch attack
2. more dmg if target makes their saves (disintigrate wins on failed saves, of course)
3. If it kills them, gain a water elemental for 1 min
A massive metal brick walking around, blasting people left and right with all these little water elementals running around, screaming like maniacs and attacking every living thing they see. Meanwhile, a wizard manages to teleport inside. You hear a muffled bang and smoke pours out a small vent that just opened. Two battle horrors are just making everything else worse while a tornado rips through the streets.
:evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh :evillaugh
I like.
Maybe an Ice Assassin?
Just trying to find a way to save on feats, especially since cash isnt a real problem.
A piece of magical architecture that casts Simulacrum could make a great disposable army.
Only the casting time sucks.
No creature type/subtype seems inherently immune to daze specifically (and few abilities grant such immunity), and every round they spend unable to act gives the turrets that much more opportunity to chip away.
The spell's downsides include the limited 10' burst (still better than single target), the fact that it's not sure-fire, and that the daze portion of the effect lasts only one round (though the entanglement lasts longer). Still, if we're talking turrets it may be hard to find decent spells of different schools from time to time.
Also, should traps roll initiative? AFAIK, they don't. Dealing with pesky AMF and disjunction casters may be easier to manage if you can assume the turrets act first (although they still target the nearest creature...).
Of course, there's also the option of making a mythal if we're bringing this into epic. Aroint abjuration to all but a select group.
Are there ways to positively affect magic in an area? Maybe something in one of the planar books? With this much magic happening every round, even slight benefits may accumulate in a useful way.
Finally, can a spell turret Time Stop itself? Sounds like a possible way of increasing the firepower of a ninth level turret (which, IMHO, is a very good move considering the expense of a ninth level turret).
Could the cohort be replaced with a spell stitched undead or a Simulacrum?
Maybe an Ice Assassin?
Just trying to find a way to save on feats, especially since cash isnt a real problem.
A piece of magical architecture that casts Simulacrum could make a great disposable army.
Only the casting time sucks.
Spell-Stitched Undead: Nope, Teleport Object LoE breaker against MDJ is 7nth level
Similar problem with Simulacrum
Ice Assassin should work though (copy a caster)
Speaking of Undead, it would probably be a good idea to have a couple of Dragon Zombies (Draconomicon rules, of course) as a form of escort. They could be commanded to follow orders given by the Battle Horrors.
Saracoth: Interesting suggestion for the third level turret. I don't believe that traps use initiative (none of the sample traps in the DMG list initiative values). We already got around the MDJ caster via teleporting inch-thick "drywall" to block LoE.
As for positivly enhancing magic: An interesting idea. The planar books seem like they would be best, just need to find a way to get the magic traits of a plane in a small area. Sculpted Planar Bubble perhaps?
Time Stopped Spell Turrets: Looks like it would work.
Edit: But Timestop doesn't allow for attack spells...
Sculpted Planar Bubble perhaps?
Time Stopped Spell Turrets: Looks like it would work.
holeee hell! have your turrets doing two full 5-round cycles per 1 turn on the outside of the bubble? yes please! this effect is possible with a planar shepherd cohort, if it cant be duplicated in any other way.
Time stopped would be good for a lesser version of the same effect. So what is the official word for what should be the perfect cohort for this?
holeee hell! have your turrets doing two full 5-round cycles per 1 turn on the outside of the bubble? yes please! this effect is possible with a planar shepherd cohort, if it cant be duplicated in any other way.
Time stopped would be good for a lesser version of the same effect. So what is the official word for what should be the perfect cohort for this?
Planar Bubble: Spell in Planar Handbook (not the Planar Shepard class ability). It does get the time traits See here for example.
Best Cohort: A primary arcane caster (Wizard with PRC's. Incantrix is always optimal :D ). Casts Teleport Object for MDJ disruption and can cast Planar Bubble.
is there a way to make it so EVERYONE inside the box can see the clairvoyance outside? sort of like, make it the bridge on star trek, where everyone can be shouting orders and collaborating on effective actions, to delegate tasks... ?
I'll see what I can come up with.
we need a plan in case everything that can possibly go awry does in fact go awry...
we are still missing an END-ALL contingency. what are we going to do if for some reason the MJD hits or an area dispel hits or a sphere of annihilation destroys the box, etc.
we need a plan in case everything that can possibly go awry does in fact go awry...
I guess the best part is really that this is done for the cost of the landlord feat (or else that's a lot of money out of pocket). All of this is basically in addition to whatever makes up the bulk of a character's build. Take it at 9th level, and by 12th or 13th level, you've got your basic tank going. Fun times
Bolded for emphasis. Even with the subsequent alterations to the build, this statement still applies.
Idea though: Create a backup box. Doesn't have to be as glamorous as the original. Something like a 1/2 storage space Obdurium flying stronghold with a few level 1 Spell Turrets isn't very expensive and can probably be fit into the lanflord after stronghold discounts are applied. it would be small enough that it would even fit in an Enveloping Pit (MiC).
stronghold mini
Basics:
Exterior Walls: Obdurium= 60,000gp*0.5ss*80%=24,000gp
Interior Walls: Obdurium= 60,000gp*0.5ss*20%=6,000gp
Lead-lining: 1,000gp
Component: Basic Office= 250gp
Locomotion: Incredible= 12,500gp
Mobility Forms:
Flying= 7,500gp
Submersing= 3,750gp
Burrowing= 5,000gp
Wall Augmentations:
Airtight= 3,750gp
Etheread Solid= 6,000gp
Magically Treated= 6,000gp
Total: 75,750gp
Basics:
Exterior Walls: Obdurium= 60,000gp*0.5ss*80%=24,000gp
Interior Walls: Obdurium= 60,000gp*0.5ss*20%=6,000gp
Lead-lining: 1,000gp
Component: Basic Office= 250gp
Locomotion: Incredible= 12,500gp
Mobility Forms:
Flying= 7,500gp
Submersing= 3,750gp
Burrowing= 5,000gp
Wall Augmentations:
Airtight= 3,750gp
Etheread Solid= 6,000gp
Magically Treated= 6,000gp
Total: 75,750gp
this is because i know as soon as my DM destroys 1 box, he will make sure every single enemy can destroy it. im thinking he will make me fight a massive cabal of entropomancers or something similarly insane.
First ... you need metamagic range on those turrets. Don't get out-ranged.
Second ... sandwich. Bear with me ... use the mind-switch trick and swap the mind of your psion cohort into the building similar to the sandwich trick. It'll get an action and be able to heal itself. Plus you can talk to it, whatever. All kinds of awesomeness.
is there a way to make it so EVERYONE inside the box can see the clairvoyance outside? sort of like, make it the bridge on star trek, where everyone can be shouting orders and collaborating on effective actions, to delegate tasks... ?
Doesn't the Stronghold Builder's Handbook have a piece of magical architecture which shows a map of the area surrounding the stronghold and can even keep track of specific creatures? That would be perfect for this.
I also second the idea of the living box, that would make a very durable cohort indeed. Not to mention that once he is a creature, he cannot be MDJ'ed. (It dispells all effects and items, but it doesn't destroy constructs. You'd still lose the turrets though.)
Questbreaker: Copying boxes? don't think so, sorry
Christopher: Spell Turrets will only target within 120, regardless of the spell's range. As for the sandwitch trick, should work just fine. I believe that actually, the player controls the cohort, not the DM (in response to Questbreaker).
Commx: The Map of Tactics is what you are referring to (pg 80).
i know this is a bit of a disambiguation, but could you point me to where it says that the player conrtols the cohort? My DM says he does but if he could see it differently RAW then he would change it.
Check the DMG listing of Leadership.
If i'm wrong, their ARE magical ways around the problem (Monsterous Thrall, Programmed Ammesia(formerly mindrape), etc...).
Or, of course, you could always become the box yourself. The guy is an artificier, after all. He'd be foolish not to have UMD maxed. Just use Power Stones of the necessary powers. Sucks for dungeon crawls, but I assume you'd just make them bigger. (You've got that burrow speed, why not use it?)
Indeed, though you would need to keep a cohort inside you to play the Lyre of Building. If we went in that direction, it would be better if the main build were a Psion. Not particularly difficult with an artificer cohort to craft the Battle Horrors. Said cohort would play the lyre of building from inside you.
Indeed, though you would need to keep a cohort inside you to play the Lyre of Building. If we went in that direction, it would be better if the main build were a Psion. Not particularly difficult with an artificer cohort to craft the Battle Horrors. Said cohort would play the lyre of building from inside you.
Do that, then manifest Fission. Ouch.
furthermore would the lyre affect you if you were the box?
technically couldnt a familiar or some other form of undisputably-controlled creature of sufficient intelligence play the lyre?
furthermore would the lyre affect you if you were the box?
The box would still be a stronghold.
Familiar: Yes it could, assuming proper anatomy (Raven familiar would work)
Psion w/ artificer cohort ...
Yet another time when someone says "I need to make the party tank" and CO can answer "Yessir, that's a Psion with an artificer co-hort for full-on tankiness"
I think that's the most awesomest way.
Psion w/ artificer cohort ...
Yet another time when someone says "I need to make the party tank" and CO can answer "Yessir, that's a Psion with an artificer co-hort for full-on tankiness"
And the Artificer cohort can also have the leadership feat:D (an extra 400,000gp for stronghold purpuses).
Edit: Better to just use Psion Thrallherd with Artificer and 2nd thrall. Psychic Reformation to make sure they both have Landlord for a net +800,000gp for Stronghold purpuses.
Yet another time when someone says "I need to make the party tank" and CO can answer "Yessir, that's a Psion with an artificer co-hort for full-on tankiness"
"Will a hovertank do?":angelhide
"Will a hovertank do?":angelhide
1 level of Elocator FTW! (though you could dump the fly speed...)
Just joking, of course.
What would the second thrall be?
For a very expensive way to improve the Spell turrets, couldn't you use the sandwich trick to turn your followers into the spell turrets (third-party method, of course)? Talk about a smart gun...
1 level of Elocator FTW! (though you could dump the fly speed...)
Just joking, of course.
What would the second thrall be?
For a very expensive way to improve the Spell turrets, couldn't you use the sandwich trick to turn your followers into the spell turrets (third-party method, of course)? Talk about a smart gun...
Second Thrall: The build pretty much has what it needs with Psion+Articifer cohort as it is. Probably a primary caster of some sort. Perhaps a Wizard Incantrix?
Sandwich trick on Spell Turrets: Just because the spell turret is alive doesn't mean it can control the magical assaults of its "body". Still, it is certainly an amusing idea:D
well if you turned into the box and could control it, why couldnt the thralls turn into the turrets and control them?
Another fantastic use of warforged. They are used to being clunky piles of stuff that never sleeps. No culture shock.
well if you turned into the box and could control it, why couldnt the thralls turn into the turrets and control them?
You don't have anymore control over the box than you did before. Movement functions the same way as it used to, except the controller of the box is now the person-box itself.
The Turrets, by contrast, automatically trigger whenever an enemy is within 120ft. That fact doesn't change just because some psion chose it as a body. The Thrall can, however, take a full rounds worth of actions separate from the Spell Turret's casting (Psionic manifesting:D )
In closing, being a specific magic item does not give you any more control over the function of said magic item than you had before.
Fil: LOL
bah id never get away with this psionic stuff, my DM doesnt allow it. oh well it would be fun if i could actually do this in a game. looks like itll have to go on my list of stuff to try when i move somewhere that has a choice of DMs.
Wel, a lot of the Mind Switch stuff is a bit excessive anyways for the box.
This opposite immediately attacks the original. The duplicate has all the possessions and powers of its original (including magic). Upon the defeat or destruction of either the duplicate or the original, the duplicate and her items disappear completely.
Note, possessions, not belongings. If someone can be made to possess the box, it doesn't matter if it belongs to them. If a mini box can indeed fit in an extradimensional space, that should count.
Now you just need to be able to easily snatch the dupe box from the new clone and keep the battle going eternally, because the dupes go away if either side is defeated (not necessarily destroyed).
While I like the idea of Tiny Tim the first level commoner fighting himself in an eternal battle royale (and understand as a result that there is indeed something horribly, horribly wrong with me), it's just not good enough. Sure, it should be easy to steal something from a first level human commoner child cripple without actually "defeating" him, but even with a Ring of Sustenance he has to sleep eventually.
The ideal target is non-threatening, ageless, and able to go without sleep. Ring of Sustenance can be used if you can't find something not needing food or drink. Also, you have to ensure no individual is ever defeated (even if the original is fighting several dupes). In addition to preventing or rapidly removing lethal and/or nonlethal damage, preventing a grapple is essential as well, making Freedom of Movement or the like a good idea.
If this battle takes place in a portable hole or enveloping pit, you can keep the arena safely in your pocket. In the latter case, access to the arena is even alignment-restricted (I think).
Whenever you want another box, find another rube, give him the original box, and repeat the process, once more taking both the original and dupe boxes back.
.... Oh, were we moving away from excessive stuff?
Just found this thread, awsome ideas :D
I can think of one possible way to duplicate the box: Mirror of Opposition.
Note, possessions, not belongings. If someone can be made to possess the box, it doesn't matter if it belongs to them. If a mini box can indeed fit in an extradimensional space, that should count.
Now you just need to be able to easily snatch the dupe box from the new clone and keep the battle going eternally, because the dupes go away if either side is defeated (not necessarily destroyed).
While I like the idea of Tiny Tim the first level commoner fighting himself in an eternal battle royale (and understand as a result that there is indeed something horribly, horribly wrong with me), it's just not good enough. Sure, it should be easy to steal something from a first level human commoner child cripple without actually "defeating" him, but even with a Ring of Sustenance he has to sleep eventually.
The ideal target is non-threatening, ageless, and able to go without sleep. Ring of Sustenance can be used if you can't find something not needing food or drink. Also, you have to ensure no individual is ever defeated (even if the original is fighting several dupes). In addition to preventing or rapidly removing lethal and/or nonlethal damage, preventing a grapple is essential as well, making Freedom of Movement or the like a good idea.
If this battle takes place in a portable hole or enveloping pit, you can keep the arena safely in your pocket. In the latter case, access to the arena is even alignment-restricted (I think).
Whenever you want another box, find another rube, give him the original box, and repeat the process, once more taking both the original and dupe boxes back.
.... Oh, were we moving away from excessive stuff?
LOL. Necropolitan 3rd level commoners would work
(Technically, the ritual would lower their level). I don't personally see this as excessive BTW :DTo defeat MCD you just sequence a teleport to force the caster on top of the box of doom, MCD has the clause that means anything the caster is touching is immune and he has just appeared several feet in the air and for a spell caster the 6 or so d6 falling damage from falling is pretty good.
Just found this thread, awsome ideas :D
well they might not take the falling damage if they already have fly on them. in which case they also will not touch the box.
To defeat MCD you just sequence a teleport to force the caster on top of the box of doom, MCD has the clause that means anything the caster is touching is immune and he has just appeared several feet in the air and for a spell caster the 6 or so d6 falling damage from falling is pretty good.
Just found this thread, awsome ideas :D
Just checked MDJ and you're right. Of course the problem remains of teleporting the entire box (not exactly light at the moment). Besides, We can already break LoE via Teleport Object and teleporting some inch-thick drywall. Their is a teleportation mobility option for strongholds though.
no my idea was to teleport the caster not the box itself if the caster appears on top of the box while the box stays in the air it causes more trouble for them and less for you especially if the caster would have to jump into a tornado to get off.
Well, how do we pull it off reliably. The PHB Teleport line has a range of touch and only affects willing creatures (read: Not an enemy caster). Now, Tying a helpless skeleton to the top and using baleful transposition is a possibility, but it, unfortunanly, allows for a save (which makes evil overlord cry
).i was thinking opening a demension door below the caster so he fell through it onto the top of the cube but i don't see a way of doing this repeatedly
Dimension Door doesn't work like that. The only teleportation effect that I know of that can be used like that is Teleportation Circle. Seeing as the MDJ threat can be countered with a 7th level spell, going to the effort of trying to cram in an elaborate "come touch me" defense is rather unneccessary.
bah id never get away with this psionic stuff, my DM doesnt allow it. oh well it would be fun if i could actually do this in a game. looks like itll have to go on my list of stuff to try when i move somewhere that has a choice of DMs.
Sorry, but I got to gloat here. My DM okayed it last night. (I wouldn't, but that's probably because I helped make this monstrosity).
look out for those spheres of annihilation. maybe its just me, but DMs only OK my ideas when theyve got a surefire way to take it all away from me...
Good thing Sphere's of Annihalation can be taken, then. If my character's smart enough, I see him taking the sphere for himself (another weapon, just what he needs).
look out for those spheres of annihilation. maybe its just me, but DMs only OK my ideas when theyve got a surefire way to take it all away from me...
I think that's just par for the course. Barring some of the more esoteric loopholes and singularities in the rules, the only way to guaranteed safety is DM fiat. Otherwise, why do so many evil folk across such a broad span of levels consistently have their strongholds invaded and looted by roaming adventurers?
Isn't one of the core concepts of D&D "Find his house, get inside, kill everything that gets in our way, and take all his stuff"? Good luck finding anything obvious that can routinely defy that
It's not the end of the world, though. Think about it this way: if you take the minimum approach of simply snatching the Landlord feat, that's all you waste on this effort. It doesn't have to last forever, but if you can get a few levels out of it before everything comes crashing down that's great!
For instance, Toughness isn't too shabby at first level, but eventually no one wants it. The bonus from the Dodge feat can tend to get overlooked at higher levels. The box can be looked at in much the same way. You take Landlord at some level, get a few levels of usefulness out of your stronghold before MDJs and SoAs enter play, and then move on.
Unless, of course, you're really just ******* off the DM and he takes it away that much sooner. Sadly, that's the other end of DM fiat, and there's no defense against it
(Not to pick on questbreaker, but since he was the last one to say something along these lines.... ;) )
You're guns stop blazing for a moment, but it keeps everything in tact. No?
On the subject of Disjunctions, could a reasonably cost effective tactic be to combine Shrink item, a large tarp, and Instant Summons. Have your defense-cohort ready an action to summon the tarp and drop it (free action) at which point it expands into a very large mundane tarp and blocks the line of effect.
You're guns stop blazing for a moment, but it keeps everything in tact. No?
That is what we've been using Teleport Object to do. Instant Summons would require a cohort ouside the box. The tarp itself, however, would be more cost effective than the current drywall tactic and would be easier to dispose of afterwords.
Snakeman: Lucky!
That is what we've been using Teleport Object to do. Instant Summons would require a cohort ouside the box. The tarp itself, however, would be more cost effective than the current drywall tactic and would be easier to dispose of afterwords.
Snakeman: Lucky!
Hmm, my bad, I must have forgotten that since sleeping. The problem with the drywall is teleport object is an object touched, and it needs to be bigger than the box to be real effective--expecially since you don't necessarily know where that MDK is going to be centered--provided you're low enough to the ground for a large tarp to drag, you'd be safe from five of six sides at least...
A drywall casing would be good, but you'd have to have somewehre within touch you could store it, and the other problem is that Teleport any object works as teleport which leaves that 3/100 chance of failure, regardless.
Hmm, my bad, I must have forgotten that since sleeping. The problem with the drywall is teleport object is an object touched, and it needs to be bigger than the box to be real effective--expecially since you don't necessarily know where that MDK is going to be centered--provided you're low enough to the ground for a large tarp to drag, you'd be safe from five of six sides at least...
A drywall casing would be good, but you'd have to have somewehre within touch you could store it, and the other problem is that Teleport any object works as teleport which leaves that 3/100 chance of failure, regardless.
The tactic used with the drywall was to simply box in the caster (breaking LoE near the source), rather than try to put a box around the original box.
That 3% margin of error is disturbing though. Need to find a way to overcome that (rerolls mayby?).
BTW: Thanks to everyone who contributed to making this monstrosity :D .
Edit: I'm back
so what else do we need to work on here?
Not all that much really.
Currently fleshed out (no particular order):
1. Defense against MDJ- Cohort Caster using Teleport Object to break LoE
2. Town destruction- Tornado's Eye
3. Air supply- Bottle of Air
4. Level 1 exterior turrets- See original post
5. Defense against Teleportation- Hallow+Dimensional Anchor
6. Defense against Incorporial Intrusion- Ethereal Solid augmentation
7. Mobility options- See original post
8. Enterance/Exit of Constructs/you into box- Greater Platform of Jaunting/ Dimension Door SLA
9. Seeing- Clairvoyance effect (rotating periscope)
10. Continuous Mind Blank effect- Secure Chamber
11. Constructs used- Battle Horrors (LEoF)
12. Luxury space- Mage's Magnificent Mansion item
13. Explosive Rune Wallpaper for the bay- Eternal Wand+ Dispel Magic trap
14. Construct Storage- Hole of Hiding
15. Defense against physical attack- Lyre of Building
16. Higher level exterior spell turrets
17. Possible method of duplication- Mirror of Opposition (see post 140 for full scoop)
Fleshing out:
Buffing Interior Spell Turrets- (Surprisingly hard to create due to the 4 different schools part of Spell Turrets)
And a possible solution to the Sphere of Annihilation:
If a rod of cancellation touches a sphere of annihilation, they negate each other in a tremendous explosion. Everything within a 60-foot radius takes 2d6
get a peon with a good spot check on the outside of the box to ready his action every turn to stop the sphere with a rod you give him.
The peon would unfortunantly be too easy to kill (cohorts get to ride inside).
Well, the Battle Horrors could handle the task, seeing as they are rather tough compared to some measly level 6 followers.
Hmm. Living box trick with Entropomancer levels??? Could be fun.
Except for the 5 levels of lost CL
.The only way to make Entropomancer viable is via Ur-priest, and the Living Box method prefers a Psion/Thrallherd for extra Thralls.
As for the Rod of Cancellation tactic, I realize that it would actually be better to create a more disposable construct (read: Scarab from Starcraft) to do the deed. Effigies mayby.
Except for the 5 levels of lost CL
The only way to make Entropomancer viable is via Ur-priest, and the Living Box method prefers a Psion/Thrallherd for extra Thralls.
Bleah. I don't know where Entropomancer can even be found, so I didn't know about that.
As for the Rod of Cancellation tactic, I realize that it would actually be better to create a more disposable construct (read: Scarab from Starcraft) to do the deed. Effigies mayby.
Hmm. Hawk effigies? They ought to be cheap. Soverign Glue a Rod of Cancellation to each of their backs. A Sphere of Annihalation pops up, and one of them attacks it.
Bye-bye sphere...
EDIT: Better yet, Bat effigies. (assuming they can carry the rod). They're even cheaper.
Bleah. I don't know where Entropomancer can even be found, so I didn't know about that.
Hmm. Hawk effigies? They ought to be cheap. Soverign Glue a Rod of Cancellation to each of their backs. A Sphere of Annihalation pops up, and one of them attacks it.
Bye-bye sphere...
EDIT: Better yet, Bat effigies. (assuming they can carry the rod). They're even cheaper.
Entropomancer is in Complete Divine.
Assuming that a Rod of Cancellation is less than 3 lbs, the bat shuold be able to carry it (assuming Sovereign Glue).
A Raven effigy could carry it, though, and is 1/4 the price of a Hawk effigy. (basing price off HD)
A Rod of Cancellation weighs 5 pounds, so no.
A Raven effigy could carry it, though, and is 1/4 the price of a Hawk effigy. (basing price off HD)
Raven Effigy it is then.
Edit: Since the bat is Diminuative, shouldn't the rod sized for a bat weigh less?
Warsaw
Raven Effigy it is then.
Edit: Since the bat is Diminuative, shouldn't the rod sized for a bat weigh less?
I didn't think about that. Recalculating for Diminuative size.
Dimminuative weight should be approximatly 5/16 of a pound. Well within the light load limit of a bat effigy (2-1/2 pounds).
So yes, Bat effigy would be cheapest.
EDIT: So, we now have two ways to deliver a Rod of Cancellation, possibly the best anti-sphere method.
1. Living box uses Telekinetic Thrust to deliver the rod. Requires having a rod on the outside of the box.
2. Bat effigies with RoC Soveriegn Glued to them attack any spheres they see. They are cheap and easy to replace.
I didn't think about that. Recalculating for Diminuative size.
Dimminuative weight should be approximatly 5/16 of a pound. Well within the light load limit of a bat effigy (2-1/2 pounds).
So yes, Bat effigy would be cheapest.
EDIT: So, we now have two ways to deliver a Rod of Cancellation, possibly the best anti-sphere method.
1. Living box uses Telekinetic Thrust to deliver the rod. Requires having a rod on the outside of the box.
2. Bat effigies with RoC Soveriegn Glued to them attack any spheres they see. They are cheap and easy to replace.
Not to mention you don't need many effigy+Rod set-ups (SoA's are not the most common item in the books).
Sometime this week i'll get the preliminary version of the Appleseed mech-box mentioned earlier. Note: I am using Leadership stacking + Landlord to get the funds.
This thread will not turn into a rules debate on the subject of Leadership stacking!
The only reason I am resorting to such tactics is because of the sheer cost of the mech project.
Not to mention you don't need many effigy+Rod set-ups (SoA's are not the most common item in the books).
Sometime this week i'll get the preliminary version of the Appleseed mech-box mentioned earlier. Note: I am using Leadership stacking + Landlord to get the funds.
This thread will not turn into a rules debate on the subject of Leadership stacking!
The only reason I am resorting to such tactics is because of the sheer cost of the mech project.
I actually figured out that if every one of your thralls has the maximum levels of thrallherd, you'd end up with over 3,000 believers.
If each one of the thrall chain has Undead Leadership and Landlord...
EDIT: May want to update the OP with the SoA countermeasures.
I actually figured out that if every one of your thralls has the maximum levels of thrallherd, you'd end up with over 3,000 believers.
If each one of the thrall chain has Undead Leadership and Landlord...
EDIT: May want to update the OP with the SoA countermeasures.
Except that Landlord requires character level 9 so only cohorts can take it. Current tactic for That character uses Leadership+Undead Leadership+Improved Cohort (increases max level of Leadership cohort)+Landlord (and the character uses Dragon Cohort to get a Psuedodragon Thrallherd). Will get around to updating original post soon (needs to be better organized)
Edit: The level 9 Cohorts alone are giving over a million gp in landlord value.
You know, it would be ridiculously easy to convert this into a spaceship. Once you're in space, you're weightless, so you can propel your ship with castings of mage hand.
Twin Hand Engine Fighter, or THE Fighter.
Also updated the original post. Slightly more readable (paragraphs for the Deluxe version description) and anti-MDJ/anti-measures mentioned.
Finally: Perhaps we should abandon the Appleseed and try for a Vicstar instead?
Twin Hand Engine Fighter, or THE Fighter.
Also updated the original post. Slightly more readable (paragraphs for the Deluxe version description) and anti-MDJ/anti-measures mentioned.
Finally: Perhaps we should abandon the Appleseed and try for a Vicstar instead?
You are currently spending 25,000 on "incredible locomotion". That's the same cost as 50 mage hand traps, or 100 if you craft them. That would give you 750 or 1500 feet/round in space (This has the unfortunate side effect of leaving you motionless within a planet's gravity well. Reverse gravity could take care of liftoff, though). You can go about 80 mph with 50 or 170mph with 100.
EDIT: N/M has to be nonmagical.
I imagine you could skim off the cash from somewhere else to get an even more ridiculous speed.
Also, why have an eternal wand of exploding runes when you can substitute a magic trap? You can then use locate object (2*3*1000 =6000 additional gp) instead of alarm in order to have it only target unruned walls. You don't even have to do the work yourself!
You are currently spending 25,000 on your locomotion. That's the same cost as 50 mage hand traps, or 100 if you craft them. That would give you 750 or 1500 feet/round in space (This has the unfortunate side effect of leaving you motionless within a planet's gravity well. Reverse gravity could take care of liftoff, though). You can go about 80 mph with 50 or 170mph with 100.
Good enough?
Compared to the speed of pretty much everything else in DnD, YES!
Slight problem though:
Target: One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb
So we may need another spell fo the job. Reverse Gravity specifies unattended objects and creatures, as well
.Violent Thrust or Sustained Force TK targeting a square, rather than a person, would work (comfort notwithstanding for the former).
Psionic versions of these effects are only 3rd level.
Levitate allows you to move yourself, another creature, or an object up and down as you wish. A creature must be willing to be levitated, and an object must be unattended or possessed by a willing creature. You can mentally direct the recipient to move up or down as much as 20 feet each round; doing so is a move action. You cannot move the recipient horizontally, but the recipient could clamber along the face of a cliff, for example, or push against a ceiling to move laterally (generally at half its base land speed).
How DOES one define horizantal and vertical in a no-gravity environment anyways?
How DOES one define horizantal and vertical in a no-gravity environment anyways?
However you want, of course. Personally, though, just to be safe, I'd have a spherical shell with traps all around. That way up/down is relative to the trap. That does mean that you have less thrust available at any given time (half of the total output, actually, assuming perfect positioning, since the surface area of a sphere is 4*pi*r^2, and you want the flux in a given direction. Since the guys on the back can be commanded to point inwards, this is really twice the flux going through the cross-section of the sphere, which is pi*r^2. I'm a little rusty on this, so if anyone spots an error please correct me on it.)
However you want, of course. Personally, though, just to be safe, I'd have a spherical shell with traps all around. That way up/down is relative to the trap. That does mean that you have less thrust available at any given time (half of the total output, actually, assuming perfect positioning, since the surface area of a sphere is 4*pi*r^2, and you want the flux in a given direction. Since the guys on the back can be commanded to point inwards, this is really twice the flux going through the cross-section of the sphere, which is pi*r^2. I'm a little rusty on this, so if anyone spots an error please correct me on it.)
Not bad. That's how I'd rule it as well in a campaign. Just checking.
As for your suggestion: Borg Sphere
Edit: Would work especially well for larger strongholds.
First, the rod of cancellation only needs to touch the sphere to stop it. It doesn't have to be held, carried, or anything like that. They weigh in at 11,000 gp though, so Rod of Cancellation Wallpaper (tm pending) seems out. Basically, this concern comes from anyone sending a Sphere of Annihilation at you can probably handle a small effigy before it reached the Sphere. Hell, you could even throw the rod at it.
Second, I don't know if this is technically in the rules, but I'll mention it since I'm not sure the necessity for air is there either. You might need to consider CO2, and that might actually help with defenses too. If you could somehow acquire a couple of treants or something similar. Double duty as air filter and defense!
Two small things.
First, the rod of cancellation only needs to touch the sphere to stop it. It doesn't have to be held, carried, or anything like that. They weigh in at 11,000 gp though, so Rod of Cancellation Wallpaper (tm pending) seems out. Basically, this concern comes from anyone sending a Sphere of Annihilation at you can probably handle a small effigy before it reached the Sphere. Hell, you could even throw the rod at it.
Second, I don't know if this is technically in the rules, but I'll mention it since I'm not sure the necessity for air is there either. You might need to consider CO2, and that might actually help with defenses too. If you could somehow acquire a couple of treants or something similar. Double duty as air filter and defense!
1. The Effigy leaves the box via the Platform of Jaunting, however your concern is noted. The only reason for using glue to hold the rod to the bat is that bats don't really have a way to hold objects. The construct just rams the SoA to destroy it. Battle Horrors could be used, but the resulting explosion of the SoA could end up killing them.
2. I think that their are rules for stagnent air somewhere (know it's mentioned in Underdark), so the Bottle of Air seemed an inexpensive way of covering the problem while underwater. Treants wouldn't fit in the box (currently is 10ft high and divided into 2 10*20ft sections).
))Okay, so we have countermeasures for MDJ and SoA in place. Are there any more real threats to this brick? (besides another brick?)
Oh, and why not have MDJ itself as an option for the 9th level turret(s)?
Why bother staying with something as small as a Vicstar (if you're abandoning the Mobile Fortress appearance) for the larger one? If you're going to go big, go Command Ship (Or Death Star, (1 10th level spell turret
Okay, so we have countermeasures for MDJ and SoA in place. Are there any more real threats to this brick? (besides another brick?)
Oh, and why not have MDJ itself as an option for the 9th level turret(s)?
MDJ Turret: Because, if it were fired too close, it would damage the other turrets (Boo!).
As for going larger, I may very well end up going to Impstar (Impstar is 1.6 kilometers long, Executor was 19 kilometers long, and Death Star 1 was 120 kilometers in diameter.). A lot of it depends on how much the Leadership stacking I mentioned earlier ends up paying. The propulsion is now VERY cheap thanks to Mad Linguist (no longer 25,000gp per storage space, would be cheaper than the propulsion for the Appleseed), so it will be larger than originally planned.
The 10th level spell turret: Unfortunantly, Spell Turrets only have a 120ft range, insufficient for orbital bombardment/obliteration (will need to come up with custom magic item for that).
As for other real threats to the brick: Can't think of any. The anti-MDJ tactic can be adapted to any LoE spell. If I'm missing something though, please point it out.
The Brick.
Okay, Idea for Construct-buffing turrets:
level 2
Repair Moderate damage (conj?)
Bulls Strength/Cat's Grace (your choice, Trans)
Okay, I got two there. Still need two more.
Hey, that's another name.
The Brick.
Okay, Idea for Construct-buffing turrets:
level 2
Repair Moderate damage (conj?)
Bulls Strength/Cat's Grace (your choice, Trans)
Okay, I got two there. Still need two more.
I think the Repair line is Transmutation
That's the annoying thing about Buffing Spell Turrets, Finding 4 buff spells from different schools (Abjuration and Transmutaton can be counted on, occasionally Divination.) Unfortunantly, Battle Horrors can already See Invisibility, so that spell would be useless.
At least the Wiz/Sorc spell lists are sorted by school (trying to find combinations for other spell lists is a nightmare!)
Lets see:
Abjuration: Resist Elements
So, we only need one more for a 2nd level Buff Turret
A first level could include:
Shield (Conj)
Mage Armor (Evoc)
1. The Effigy leaves the box via the Platform of Jaunting, however your concern is noted. The only reason for using glue to hold the rod to the bat is that bats don't really have a way to hold objects. The construct just rams the SoA to destroy it. Battle Horrors could be used, but the resulting explosion of the SoA could end up killing them.
2. I think that their are rules for stagnent air somewhere (know it's mentioned in Underdark), so the Bottle of Air seemed an inexpensive way of covering the problem while underwater. Treants wouldn't fit in the box (currently is 10ft high and divided into 2 10*20ft sections).
So basically you'd have to jaunt within a "run" action of the sphere and fly the construct in? That's better than I thought. It's unlikely an opponent will ready an action to hit something like that, and the only exception is if they try twice, they might be ready for that tactic.
Oh, I see. I didn't remember how the Bottle of Air worked properly. If you went into the mansion or other extradimensional space to sleep, would you have to worry about it? Also, I think the air would eventually get poisonous, considering it's airtight.
It's not like D&D's realistic either, and this last point assumes those rules are actually fleshed out. If they're not, ignore my point.
Illusion: Blur/Invisibility (probably the least useful)/Mirror Image
So, we only need one more for a 2nd level Buff Turret
A first level could include:
Shield (Conj)
Mage Armor (Evoc)
Illusion: Blur/Invisibility work, Mirror Image is range: personal
Also, Battle Horrors, as part of their creation, effectively have +5 Full-Plate, so Mage armor is useless.
Senevri: Wand-using Homunculus- Not really necessary. Remember that Homunculii deal damage to their creator upon destruction and 6hd means they die real fast at high levels.
Oh, I see. I didn't remember how the Bottle of Air worked properly. If you went into the mansion or other extradimensional space to sleep, would you have to worry about it? Also, I think the air would eventually get poisonous, considering it's airtight.
From the description:
The atmosphere is clean, fresh, and warm.
From the description:
Yeah, figured as much. Does that help with the actual box itself too? Or just the extradimensional space?
Yeah, figured as much. Does that help with the actual box itself too? Or just the extradimensional space?
The extra-dimensional space only.
Damn, looks like we need an air-purification system.
The extra-dimensional space only.
Damn, looks like we need an air-purification system.
That's why I suggested treants (or any other plant creature).
Very cool idea, btw.
Illusion: Blur/Invisibility work, Mirror Image is range: personal
Okay, of those, Blur is probably the best.
Also, Battle Horrors, as part of their creation, effectively have +5 Full-Plate, so Mage armor is useless.
Eh, I've never seen the book they're in.
The extra-dimensional space only.
Damn, looks like we need an air-purification system.
That's why I suggested treants (or any other plant creature).
Very cool idea, btw.
Okay, just put a nice little flower (or twelve) in your cockpit.
Of course, if you used the sandwich trick, this is completely unesscesary.
The extra-dimensional space only.
Damn, looks like we need an air-purification system.
Ring Gates? Or just, get a necklace of adaptation and forget the air bottle... And a ring of sustenance.... and play a Dalek...
Ring Gates? Or just, get a necklace of adaptation and forget the air bottle... And a ring of sustenance.... and play a Dalek...
Forgetting the bottle should work.
Valanthe: The main problem with plants is the Volume of plant matter required to keep up with air consumption (most DM's don't know the amount, and would probably require far more than a single plant to do it).
However, for the Impstar...:D
Speaking of the Impstar, I ran the Leadership stacking figures and it turns out that I have 26.45 Million gp from the various Landlord feats alone.
Wondrous Architecture: Chamber of Comfort, 7500 gp/ss
To paraphrase it, it keeps the room at a constant pleasant temperature, smoke in the room disappears 'through' the ceiling (ceasing to exist), and most inmortantly, "Additionally, the room magically circulates fresh air in and out of the room."
So yeah... magical ventilation.
As far as fresh air:
Wondrous Architecture: Chamber of Comfort, 7500 gp/ss
To paraphrase it, it keeps the room at a constant pleasant temperature, smoke in the room disappears 'through' the ceiling (ceasing to exist), and most inmortantly, "Additionally, the room magically circulates fresh air in and out of the room."
So yeah... magical ventilation.
YAHOO:D !
Will get added to original post pronto.
Edit: Some food for thought on the Impstar:
20ft=6.096m
1.6km= 263 (rounded up)20ft(6.096m) long sections
And for the Vicstar (900m):
148 Storage Spaces long
This thread has inspired me... I'm slowly tinkering on ideas for how much it would cost to build an honest to goodness Death Star. The armor plating alone is going to cost on the order of 10^13 gp. I'm thinking I may have to summon/bind Efreet repeatedly to do any of it. Yes I'm insane. At least I won't have to worry about MDJ taking out the whole thing in one swoop :P
Why not use a magical trap of Wall of Iron?
This thread has inspired me... I'm slowly tinkering on ideas for how much it would cost to build an honest to goodness Death Star. The armor plating alone is going to cost on the order of 10^13 gp. I'm thinking I may have to summon/bind Efreet repeatedly to do any of it. Yes I'm insane. At least I won't have to worry about MDJ taking out the whole thing in one swoop :P
Yes.
You are insane :D .
BTW: A Death Star (120km according to Starwars.com) measurses out to a diameter of 19685 (rounded up) Storage Spaces (length-wise).
Mad_Linguist: or just have Cohorts cast Wall of Iron.
Edit: Wrong DD diameter
I had pondered surrounding as much of it as possible in Walls of Force. It wouldn't do to have a Hulking Hurler blow a hole through the hull.
Dangit... 160 km? I used the 120 km figure from earlier in the thread. Back to the drawing board!
I had pondered surrounding as much of it as possible in Walls of Force. It wouldn't do to have a Hulking Hurler blow a hole through the hull.
The 120km measurement is correct for the Death Star ONE. The second Death Star was 160km
I did once have to design an impenetrable prison for an unkillable monster. It was fun. I went with a dimension-locked Force-walled cube deep underground.
Guess I'll go with the DSII figures. Why settle for less than the best model, eh?
Well, my thought was layering Force walls with Hardened metal of some sort. I was originally thinking Obdurium, but Iron would probably be way easier and still have a ton of HP for how think its going to have to be. Sort of a multi-shell style. Sure a single Rod of Cancelation or Disintegrate or whatever will take out that 10'x10' plate of Force, but there's a thick plating of metal, then another Force/Metal layer under it. By the time you've started digging, you've been targeted by who knows what kind of automatic defenses. At least, that was my initial idea.
Guess I'll go with the DSII figures. Why settle for less than the best model, eh?
Nice idea, I'll have to borrow it for the Star Destroyer.
Given that the fly speed is 88ft already, do we really need to break that in space?
I mean, what are you going to be facing out there with that kind of speed? A demilich? I doubt it.
Hmmm.
Given that the fly speed is 88ft already, do we really need to break that in space?
I mean, what are you going to be facing out there with that kind of speed? A demilich? I doubt it.
In space, an object effectively weighs, well, zero lbs. This allows the use of Effects such as Levitation and Telekinesis to move THE ENTIRE FREAKIN STRONGHOLD for much cheaper than 50,000gp per storage space. Also, a caster can Teleport the Death Star without having to worry about the weaight limit of the spell.
In addition, 10 mph is VERY slow in astronomical terms.
Further Musings: Permanant Wall of Fire and Gust of Wind provide heating for 20 storage spaces (talked about in spells stection of SBG). Useful for when you are in the shadow of a planet (surface temp of Death Star/Star Destroyer in the negatives).
Also, according to STAR WARS Technical Journal of the Imperial Forces , the range of the superlaser is 47,060,000km.
Okay, as I was planning to go with the Living Box trick for my character, I realized we're missing something: physical ability scores.
I know the box would be considered a construct, so Con is not an issue.
What are the Strength and Dex scores for it, though?
Good points.
Okay, as I was planning to go with the Living Box trick for my character, I realized we're missing something: physical ability scores.
I know the box would be considered a construct, so Con is not an issue.
What are the Strength and Dex scores for it, though?
Str and Dex, like those of the Sandwich, would be non-abilities (I think).
Sandwiches can't do either of those.
Yet we know the thing moves under it's own power, so it must have a Dex score. We also know that it can carry objects, so it must have a Strength.
Sandwiches can't do either of those.
Non-abilities tend to be treated as 10s (Undead/Constructs don't get penalties to HP or Fort save, Incoporal creatures have ethereal equipement, etc.). Also, it moves magically, not naturally. Magical Movement doesn't require a Dex score.
Okay, I wonder what everyone else thinks about that, but I suppose the nonabilities will go in for now (infinite carrying capacity, yay!).
They are definitely non-abilities in Strength, Dex, and Con. The box itself can't exert force, can't move, and is not alive. Only the magical enchantment on it is moving the box through space. Strength is more about actively exerting force than actually carrying things. The floor under your feet has no Strength score and it is carrying you just fine, but the force it exerts is reactive, not active. I honestly have no idea how to find out how much weight a given thickness of a given material could support before collapsing.
Good Explaination.
One could also argue that stuff INSIDE you shouldn't count toward carrying capacity (Does the 2lbs of meat in your stomach count towards carrying capacity.).
Snakeman: As for the -5 Dex to AC, it's not that big a deal. After all, you ARE immune to damage (Lyre of Building). Another consideration for the Living box is that the box doesn't have sensory organs (ie. eyes, nose, etc.), therefore it is necessary to rely on magical/psionic means of vision (I believe that work-arounds have been discussed on other sandwich-related threads).
Good Explaination.
One could also argue that stuff INSIDE you shouldn't count toward carrying capacity (Does the 2lbs of meat in your stomach count towards carrying capacity.).
.
And your body doesn't count towards carrying capacity at all...
Good Explaination.
One could also argue that stuff INSIDE you shouldn't count toward carrying capacity (Does the 2lbs of meat in your stomach count towards carrying capacity.).
Snakeman: As for the -5 Dex to AC, it's not that big a deal. After all, you ARE immune to damage (Lyre of Building). Another consideration for the Living box is that the box doesn't have sensory organs (ie. eyes, nose, etc.), therefore it is necessary to rely on magical/psionic means of vision (I believe that work-arounds have been discussed on other sandwich-related threads).
I never said it was a big deal, I just mentioned that it was an exception.
Hmm. Touchsight (among others)?
Of course, the DM may rule that you retain your senses (such as intelligent items do).
I never said it was a big deal, I just mentioned that it was an exception.
Hmm. Touchsight (among others)?
Of course, the DM may rule that you retain your senses (such as intelligent items do).
Fair enough.
Anyways, hopefully I'll have some time to work on the Star Destroyer tomorrow (Classes have been taking up a lot of time lately). Currently the plan is to create some custom "Clusters" to speed mapping the damn thing along. Also, need to brainstorm how to create turbolasers that have a long enough range for orbital bombardment (120ft of Spell Turrets just doesn't cut it
). Heck, a wonderous architecture item of Disintegrate (long range spell) would require a REDICULOUS (read: In the hundreds) caster level to achieve the neccessary range.Fair enough.
Anyways, hopefully I'll have some time to work on the Star Destroyer tomorrow (Classes have been taking up a lot of time lately). Currently the plan is to create some custom "Clusters" to speed mapping the damn thing along. Also, need to brainstorm how to create turbolasers that have a long enough range for orbital bombardment (120ft of Spell Turrets just doesn't cut it
One could research the following spell:
Fireball (except it is inherently 'enhanced' with the equivalent of 5 enlarge spell metamagic feats), Spell Level 8th
2400'+4080' at Caster Level 17
then apply the Enlarge Spell Metamagic Feat for a grand total of:
4800'+8160' = 12960'
12,960 feet = 3.950208 kilometers < 75km
But good 'nough imho.
9*17*1800 = 275400gp for a Command Word Wondrous Item of Fireball with a range of almost 4 kilometers.
EDIT:
Which is reasonable considering delayed blast fireball is effectively Fireball + empower spell applied twice and you have the option of a 0-5 round delay.
Or a heaping helping of black lotus extract!
Or an ice assassin with the nuclear apoclaypse, anyone? trick prepared
Drop rocks on them.
Or a heaping helping of black lotus extract!
Or an ice assassin with the nuclear apoclaypse, anyone? trick prepared
Don't you mean asteroids:D
Ice Assassin for Nuclear Apocalypse trick: Will reexamin that thread for possibilities.
The9Circles: 3.950208 kilometers may be what I have to settle for. Use asteroid projectiles to bombard surface while the fireball/turbolasers deal with closer threats.
2800'+5880'x2, Minimum CL 21st for a 10th level spell item
17,360 feet = 5.291328 kilometers
Not sure it is worth the price tag tho:
3,060,000gp
Butt may be worth this(if your DM is kind enough to declare it 'non-epic'):
306,000gp
------
Just a thought for the pilot:
Dynasties & Demagogues (if you have access to this and don't mind a slight effort for the conversion from 3.0 to 3.5 - basically just remove the Scry skill part.)
Wizard 7 / Information Mage 10
Relevant SLAs - Clairvoyance/Clairaudience, Scrying, and Greater Scrying AT WILL
Can use magic items, regardless of location (e.g. can be on the outside and him on the inside or vice versa), that he created. Concentration Check of DC 10+Item's CL.
Doubles XP cost or Material Cost of the item tho. Far less valuable than the above class feature. =0
If your willing to use a 10th level spell..and thereby making the item epic you can increase the range to:
2800'+5880'x2, Minimum CL 21st for a 10th level spell item
17,360 feet = 5.291328 kilometers
Not sure it is worth the price tag tho:
3,060,000gp
Butt may be worth this(if your DM is kind enough to declare it 'non-epic'):
306,000gp
------
Just a thought for the pilot:
Dynasties & Demagogues (if you have access to this and don't mind a slight effort for the conversion from 3.0 to 3.5 - basically just remove the Scry skill part.)
Wizard 7 / Information Mage 10
Relevant SLAs - Clairvoyance/Clairaudience, Scrying, and Greater Scrying AT WILL
Can use magic items, regardless of location (e.g. can be on the outside and him on the inside or vice versa), that he created. Concentration Check of DC 10+Item's CL.
Doubles XP cost or Material Cost of the item tho. Far less valuable than the above class feature. =0
Yeah, the epic pricing is a bit much. Besides, the difference between 5.3 and 3.95 km isn't that extreme when you consider that the Star Destroyer MUST remain in orbit (I am not paying 50,000gp per storage space just to fly 10mph).
Looks like a launch bay full of asteroids is the economic way to go here. It may not be the most accurate, but, sooner or later, you'll annihilate the correct town/person.
As for Dynasties & Demagogues, I'll see if I can look through it at the FLGS.
I'm mainly reading this thread for ideas for my mini-fortress (for my Info Mage/Necromancer). Although, I'm not going for space-based. =0
Eh was just a random thought...
I'm mainly reading this thread for ideas for my mini-fortress (for my Info Mage/Necromancer). Although, I'm not going for space-based. =0
Hope this thread has helped.
Anyways, have been thinking about the various "systems" of the ship (life-support, engines, tractor-beam, etc.):
Environmental Controls
Heating: Permanent Wall of Fire+ Permanent Gust of Wind: heats 20 storage spaces per use.
Air filtering: Chamber of Comfort + Permanent Gust of Wind: filters air for 20 storage spaces (based off the previous trick from SBG).
Water supply: Decanter of Endless Water: rather obvious.
Heating: Permanent Wall of Fire+ Permanent Gust of Wind: heats 20 storage spaces per use.
Air filtering: Chamber of Comfort + Permanent Gust of Wind: filters air for 20 storage spaces (based off the previous trick from SBG).
Water supply: Decanter of Endless Water: rather obvious.
Anyway, all metamagic effects have level costs reduced by 1, but we can't reduce the spell below its normal level.
The weapons can now be be energy substituted (0-1), invisible (0-1), extended (1-1), enlarged(1-1) and widened (3-1), energy admixtured(0-1) and empowered(2-1), and remain at the original price.
Now that arcane thesis is unnerfed, I'm sure there's a bunch of enhancements we can make to the enchantments (enchancements?).
Anyway, all metamagic effects have level costs reduced by 1, but we can't reduce the spell below its normal level.
The weapons can now be be energy substituted (0-1), invisible (0-1), extended (1-1), enlarged(1-1) and widened (3-1), energy admixtured(0-1) and empowered(2-1), and remain at the original price.
Indeed!
Not like the box really needed more offensive capacity. The official "character" (not like it's really important) now has a Wizard/ Incantrix/ Chamelion 2 thrall for the ability to switch out Arcane Thesis spells as needed.
Add in born of the three thunders or some other +0 metamagic instead.
Using the 20*20*10ft dimensions, we get 64 valid turret slots (assuming that each turret takes a 5ft*5ft space).
(4*4)+(4*4)+ 4(4*2)= 64 (units are 5ft increments). Of course, firing arcs will have to be taken into account with design.
Necromancy time!
Spell turrests are dimminuative objects, meaning they only need 1ft *1 ft areas. Let's multiply the number of spell turrets by 25!
We have 1,600 spell turrets now (assuming, of course, we could somehow afford that many).
Oh, and a construct-buffing turret possible list:
Lvl 1 buff turret
Nightshield or Shield (Abjur)
Blades of Fire (Conj)
Blood Wind (Evoc)
Repair Light Damage (Trans)
'twas also fun not having to use the normal tunnels in pandemonium. "There's a thin tunnel branching off to the left, and a thick one branching off the the right"
"I go straight ahead. Pirate ship, remember?"
We can make this a room of scrying, right? You can target spells through this, right? Put the spell turrets on the inside and fire them through the scrying pool, or at interior invaders?
A door over the scrying pool, so you can use the space for something else when needed?
Can we not use shrink person for those who don't fit in out 10' box?
Sorry, I'm rambling. I do have some questions:
- Could you create a lvl 9 spell turret that casts timestop, then use metamagic'ed delayed spells?
- Is the artificer cohort in the first post going to be able to strum the lyre, do all your building, and have a constant readied action to teleport stuff for the anti-mdj tricks? (And it would have to be constant, as any DM trying to destroy the Cube would figure out a way to have a mage catch you at whatever down time you took.)
- Could a mage cast spells at your vulnerable interior (for instance, the Lyre) through scrying pools or other scrying equipment, or has this been dealt with and I missed it?
- Did you ever work up turrets of extended range so you can't be outranged by metamagic, or are you just assuming that any single turret could have all spells in it extended and and get built at a higher level?
- And could you please mention the Planar Bubble stuff in the OP, as well as costs for each lvl of Spell Turret?
Thanks.
This is tasty goodness beyond belief. In my next game, I will become an invincible box that travels in a tornado and spits magic everywhere. :D Hmmm... maybe I won't wait for next game... they figured out a way to use Haunt Shift to replicate the sammich trick using arcane methods...:evillaugh
Sorry, I'm rambling. I do have some questions:
- Could you create a lvl 9 spell turret that casts timestop, then use metamagic'ed delayed spells?
- Is the artificer cohort in the first post going to be able to strum the lyre, do all your building, and have a constant readied action to teleport stuff for the anti-mdj tricks? (And it would have to be constant, as any DM trying to destroy the Cube would figure out a way to have a mage catch you at whatever down time you took.)
- Could a mage cast spells at your vulnerable interior (for instance, the Lyre) through scrying pools or other scrying equipment, or has this been dealt with and I missed it?
- Did you ever work up turrets of extended range so you can't be outranged by metamagic, or are you just assuming that any single turret could have all spells in it extended and and get built at a higher level?
- And could you please mention the Planar Bubble stuff in the OP, as well as costs for each lvl of Spell Turret?
Thanks.
1. Wouldn't work quite like that since the turret is the one casting it (IE it gets the extra rounds, not you).
2. About the Cohort, the original assumption was that the main character was a spellcaster who took care of ready-action defenses while the cohort used the lyre. If you actually become the box, Counterspelling can be substituted for the Teleport Object tricks (which worked with the character inside the Flying Box). A Dedicated Wright (Eberron Campaign Setting) can do your item crafting for you.
3. Scrying can be defeated by Lead-Lining or the Secure Chamber architecture (which provides a Mind-Blank effect for the entire area).
4. Didn't really got around to it. Range was never really one of the issues that came up in design. Construct minions helped deal with anything that turrets couldn't handle.
5. I'll see if I can't get that added sometime tomorrow.
Once you pull off the Sandwich trick with this, a good way to stop MJD is Trickery Devotion. It makes an SLA duplicate of you, and blocks LoE for all purposes due to size. Just ready one of your actions to Duplicate yourself via Trickery Devotion, and bam, MDJ gets the shaft.
Even better, give MDJ to your constructs! Double threat!
Another way around the MDJ is Astral Projection to duplicate the entire fortress itself.
1. Wouldn't work quite like that since the turret is the one casting it (IE it gets the extra rounds, not you).
Sorry - I meant, could you have the turret Time Stop itself, then cast delayed spells for the 2nd-4th spells?
2. About the Cohort, the original assumption was that the main character was a spellcaster who took care of ready-action defenses while the cohort used the lyre. If you actually become the box, Counterspelling can be substituted for the Teleport Object tricks (which worked with the character inside the Flying Box). A Dedicated Wright (Eberron Campaign Setting) can do your item crafting for you.
Got it. Thanks. And thanks for the tip about lead lining defeating scrying... I think my DM and I need to have a talk. ;)
One more question I totally forgot to ask earlier... if you become the box, can you craft contingent spells on yourself as discussed earlier to defeat MDJ etc.? That'd be broken. (Not that this whole thing isn't already... :D )
Sorry - I meant, could you have the turret Time Stop itself, then cast delayed spells for the 2nd-4th spells?
Got it. Thanks. And thanks for the tip about lead lining defeating scrying... I think my DM and I need to have a talk. ;)
One more question I totally forgot to ask earlier... if you become the box, can you craft contingent spells on yourself as discussed earlier to defeat MDJ etc.? That'd be broken. (Not that this whole thing isn't already... :D )
Spell Turrets are unintelligent; however, the Summon Monster turret that casts Stoneskin on the summoned creature hints that their is some leeway in programming. I'd personally rule that the amount of time you delayed the spells would have to be determined when you programmed it. The Spell Turret is unintelligent so it doesn't know when the time stop ends and thus can't adjust the Delayed spells accordingly, but can be programmed with a set delay time for each spell. The rules are rather vague on this though.
If you actually become the box, than Contingent Spells should work (at least with the old Psionic Sandwitch trick. I'm not that well-versed in the Haunt Shift trick.. Contingent Spells didn't work in earlier discussion since we were still working with a non-living box.
Also, I plan on making a more detailed and updated version of the Box soon (probably this weekend).
Contingent Spells didn't work in earlier discussion since we were still working with a non-living box.
Maybe you should change thread title to "Flying in a Living Box"
Time Stop first (Trans)
Maw of Chaos (Abjur)
Shades (Illus) getting any spell you want
And then either black blade of disaster or sphere of ultimate destruction (both conj)
even as a box, could one cast/manifest a fly on ones self for greater speed than the stronghold movement augmentations allows?
if one could delay and repeat a planeshift effect, then one could also use a repeated limited wish to guide where one showed up on the plane, thus achieving a "hyperspace" effect.
shadow walking might also be useful for traveling long distances rapidly, especially if one was the box.