Lloyd's Beacon: Unintentionally Abusable? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Lloyd's Beacon: Unintentionally Abusable?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Endarire
Sep 28, 2008 16:10:42 Forenote: This is a PEACH. I asked the people of the Spells board to critique it but received no reply. I'm fairly certain this normal beacon is balanced at L4, though that may be too high. Should the planar version be separate?

Lloyd's beacon is heavily inspired by the Might & Magic series. Its purpose is to allow quick returning to an already-visited place, such as a base or a tricky part of a maze. Dimension door and teleport provide much more efficient means of traveling into the unknown or places the caster hasn't been and the caster must be able to travel between planes, such as via plane shift, to make use of Lloyd's planar beacon.

I'm unsure if two spells are warranted. Lloyd's beacon is already a niche spell and the planar version even more so.

[size=5]Lloyd's Beacon[/size]
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz4
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Personal and touch
Target: Square on your current plane to which you have line of sight, you and other touched objects or other willing creatures, see text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)

Lloyd's beacon has two functions, Set Anchor Point and Recall. Each casting of Lloyd's beacon allows you to use one function.

Set Anchor Point
You create an anchor point at a specific location on your current plane. You must be physically present at a location and have line of sight to the target square to set an anchor; you can't set an anchor to a place you have only seen by divination or in a dream.

You can have a number of anchor points equal to 1 + 1/2 your caster level to a maximum of 20 anchor points at caster level 38. With one casting of Lloyd's beacon, you can choose to lose any number of old anchor point and place a new one. (This is most often done when a wizard reaches his limit of anchor points.)

If you set all your available anchor points then your caster level decreases, such as from losing a level, you can recall to all your current anchor points; however, setting a new anchor point requires you immediately lose enough anchor points of your choosing so you are no longer over your limit. Doing so requires only 1 casting of the spell.

Anchor points are personal. Even if you find another's scroll, wand, or other item of Lloyd's beacon, you can only recall to your anchor points. You cannot gain more anchor points than allowed by your caster level by using items of Lloyd's beacon; anchor points set with items are still part of your anchor point list. Remember that when using an item of Lloyd's beacon, you normally use the item's caster level instead of yours. (Most likely, an item of Lloyd's beacon will be created at minimum caster level and be most useful for recalling to previously set anchor points.)

You can briefly increase your caster level then cast Lloyd's beacon to be able to set another anchor point, though you may still not have more anchor points than allowed by your new caster level.

Recall
To recall, you must have at least one anchor point set. Attempting to recall with no anchor set causes the spell to fail.

You instantly teleport to your selected anchor point and carry any gear on your person or that you touch so long as its total weight does not exceed your current encumbrance for a heavy load.

You can bring along one other willing Medium or smaller creature per 2 caster levels with a Large creature counting as 2 Medium creatures, a Huge creatures counting as 2 Large creatures and so on. Other creatures can bring along objects on their persons or that they touch if their current encumbrance does not exceed their maximum heavy load. If an object touched by you or someone you bring along is attended by another creature, that creature must be willing to let the item be transported, otherwise the item is not recalled.

You must touch such a target directly or touch others indirectly so long as each target is touching you or someone touching you. (For example, an adventuring party linking hands could transport this way.)

When you recall, there is no guarantee the location will be as you left it. Perhaps a field you used as an anchor point is now a castle. If you recall and would appear in a solid object, such as a brick wall, you and each creature recalling with you takes 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location.

If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails.

You cannot travel between planes via Lloyd's beacon, though you can with Lloyd's planar beacon. Anchor points are accessible with either spell, but you can only recall to beacons on you current plane with Lloyd's beacon.

[size=5]Lloyd's Planar Beacon[/size]
Conjuration (Teleportation)
Level: Sor/Wiz7
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Personal and touch
Target: You and other touched objects or other willing creatures
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object)

Lloyd's planar beacon functions as Lloyd's beacon except you can also access beacons on other planes. Anchor points are accessible with either spell, but you can only recall to beacons on you current plane with Lloyd's beacon.
#2
surreal
Sep 29, 2008 0:16:20 I would bump each up a level, and set the limit on checkpoints simply equal to half your character level so there are no silly caster level shenanigans.
#3
sinfire_titan
Sep 29, 2008 0:18:50 Ever play Morrowwind? Two of the spells they had in that game were almost identical to the first one you listed. Both of them were removed from Oblivion, due to how much they made the Feather spell useless (you never had to worry about your encumberance, you just needed to cast Mark and warp back to the nearest fort to sell your loot, then warp back to the Marked point using Recall). While incredibly useful, it wasn't exactly broken (due to how hard it was to cast both of those spells, you had to be really high level to get much use out of them) until it was put into an item (which was very easy to find/steal/buy).

While your spell is lower level than Teleport, it takes two castings in order to use it effectively (or Twin Spell). This really goes a long way to balance it out. Just do not allow them to make wands of this spell, and it will be ok to allow.
#4
Endarire
Sep 29, 2008 14:52:18 I added clarification to the original LB. It now emphasizes that an item of Lloyd's beacon is probably made at minimum caster level (7) and if so, it can only be anchored at 4 points.
#5
CantripN
Sep 30, 2008 13:26:03 I'd raise the casting time to 10 Minutes, and then I'd call it a fine, balanced, spell.
#6
muertog
Sep 30, 2008 15:21:35 Clerics already have a similar spell:
Word of Recall is 6th level (8 for druids), and is limited to the same plane.

Teleport is a 5th level spell, and only has to be cast once. Interplanar spells tend to be in the 8th-9th level range.

The first one might be alright at 4th level, but the second one should be at least 7th to reflect the power of interplanar travel. I'm giving the spell a 1-level discount due to the imposed limitations, but I would also put a 10 minute casting time (as suggested) to justify the discount and make sure this is not an offensive retreat spell.

An alternative would be to ask the DM to make a campaign-specific minor artifact "loaned" to the PCs that would perform the same task (perhaps it has to be left in the destination place 24-48 hours to reset the location).
#7
Endarire
Oct 04, 2008 19:54:25 Do you believe Lloyd's beacon would be balanced with this additional clause?

"Normally Lloyd's beacon requires a level 4 slot and has a casting time of 1 minute. If you use a level 5 slot, this spell has a 1 round casting time. If you use a level 6 or higher slot, this spell has a swift action casting time."

If I did this to LB, I'd likely do the same for LPB; shorter casting times for higher level slots.
#8
hogarth
Oct 05, 2008 9:49:49 Personally, I don't like the idea of perfectly accurate unlimited range teleportation with a 4th level spell (something normally reserved for Greater Teleport or Word of Recall or other high level spells). It's not so much that it's "abusable", it just makes those spells somewhat obsolete.

And (again on a personal note), I like to see less teleportation in my campaigns, not more. It makes the world feel too small if you can teleport everywhere.
#9
Endarire
Oct 05, 2008 22:37:16 hogarth, our opinions differ then.
#10
hogarth
Oct 06, 2008 7:26:31
hogarth, our opinions differ then.

Sure.

Muertog had an excellent point, though:

How is this different from Word of Recall other than the longer casting time and the fact that the Beacon can transport you to a variety of different places instead of one specific place and the Beacon allows you to take along more people?

I don't believe that adding a longer casting time is enough to reduce a spell's level by much (especially a spell which has a significant non-combat use). And you added a couple of advantages on top of it, to boot.
#11
muertog
Oct 06, 2008 12:12:11 If you -really- want people to be able to jaunt around at will, using abilities reminiscent of Diablo's checkpoints in your campaign (and it is -your- campaign), feel free. The wonderful thing about D&D is the complete flexibility that you are allowed.

However, if you are a -player- trying to justify a new spell to a DM, you aren't going to get much sympathy regarding this spell from me. Any spell that overlaps or otherwise completely invalidates a higher-level spell is inherently overpowered, unless you are willing to lower the levels of existing spells.

Further review:
Teleport:
Only allows 1 additional creature per -3- caster levels.
Refuge: Clr 7; Sorc/Wiz 9
Allows you to create an item that, when broken, will transport 1 creature to your home, or you to the creature. 1.5k gold component.

Considered thoughts for balance (Not just one, but multiple selections):
>Longer casting time to avoid the players using the spell as a too-cheap "evacuation". Get Out of Jail free cards should -not- be given out too easily.
>Higher level spell (which kind of defeats the purpose, since you appear to be trying to make this available to characters sooner).
>Limit the number of "return" spots that can be memorized. I recommend 1 (3 at max).
>Make it as a minor artifact, so players can't copy the item/effect at will.

I hadn't read too carefully on the Planar version of the spell, but there are additional concerns regarding level balance there as well.
Plane Shift: Cleric 5th, and Sorc/Wiz 7th.
>Only allows up to 8 creatures/players.
>Does -not- allow precise accuracy: "Appear 5 to 500 miles from your intended destination", with the focus item a forked rod keyed to a certain plane or dimension.

Anyways, you are really pushing for this as a spell, when you get the first ability in one more spell level anyways (teleport). Making the spell as a swift action should be at -least- the same as applying Quicken Spell metamagic, which is a +4 spell level increase. All the spells listed are at least a standard action to cast and/or activate.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Endarire Sep 28, 2008 16:10:42	Forenote: This is a PEACH. I asked the people of the Spells board to critique it but received no reply. I'm fairly certain this normal beacon is balanced at L4, though that may be too high. Should the planar version be separate? Lloyd's beacon is heavily inspired by the Might & Magic series. Its purpose is to allow quick returning to an already-visited place, such as a base or a tricky part of a maze. Dimension door and teleport provide much more efficient means of traveling into the unknown or places the caster hasn't been and the caster must be able to travel between planes, such as via plane shift, to make use of Lloyd's planar beacon. I'm unsure if two spells are warranted. Lloyd's beacon is already a niche spell and the planar version even more so. [size=5]Lloyd's Beacon[/size] Conjuration (Teleportation) Level: Sor/Wiz4 Components: V Casting Time: 1 minute Range: Personal and touch Target: Square on your current plane to which you have line of sight, you and other touched objects or other willing creatures, see text Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object) Lloyd's beacon has two functions, Set Anchor Point and Recall. Each casting of Lloyd's beacon allows you to use one function. Set Anchor Point You create an anchor point at a specific location on your current plane. You must be physically present at a location and have line of sight to the target square to set an anchor; you can't set an anchor to a place you have only seen by divination or in a dream. You can have a number of anchor points equal to 1 + 1/2 your caster level to a maximum of 20 anchor points at caster level 38. With one casting of Lloyd's beacon, you can choose to lose any number of old anchor point and place a new one. (This is most often done when a wizard reaches his limit of anchor points.) If you set all your available anchor points then your caster level decreases, such as from losing a level, you can recall to all your current anchor points; however, setting a new anchor point requires you immediately lose enough anchor points of your choosing so you are no longer over your limit. Doing so requires only 1 casting of the spell. Anchor points are personal. Even if you find another's scroll, wand, or other item of Lloyd's beacon, you can only recall to your anchor points. You cannot gain more anchor points than allowed by your caster level by using items of Lloyd's beacon; anchor points set with items are still part of your anchor point list. Remember that when using an item of Lloyd's beacon, you normally use the item's caster level instead of yours. (Most likely, an item of Lloyd's beacon will be created at minimum caster level and be most useful for recalling to previously set anchor points.) You can briefly increase your caster level then cast Lloyd's beacon to be able to set another anchor point, though you may still not have more anchor points than allowed by your new caster level. Recall To recall, you must have at least one anchor point set. Attempting to recall with no anchor set causes the spell to fail. You instantly teleport to your selected anchor point and carry any gear on your person or that you touch so long as its total weight does not exceed your current encumbrance for a heavy load. You can bring along one other willing Medium or smaller creature per 2 caster levels with a Large creature counting as 2 Medium creatures, a Huge creatures counting as 2 Large creatures and so on. Other creatures can bring along objects on their persons or that they touch if their current encumbrance does not exceed their maximum heavy load. If an object touched by you or someone you bring along is attended by another creature, that creature must be willing to let the item be transported, otherwise the item is not recalled. You must touch such a target directly or touch others indirectly so long as each target is touching you or someone touching you. (For example, an adventuring party linking hands could transport this way.) When you recall, there is no guarantee the location will be as you left it. Perhaps a field you used as an anchor point is now a castle. If you recall and would appear in a solid object, such as a brick wall, you and each creature recalling with you takes 1d6 points of damage and are shunted to a random open space on a suitable surface within 100 feet of the intended location. If there is no free space within 100 feet, you and each creature traveling with you take an additional 2d6 points of damage and are shunted to a free space within 1,000 feet. If there is no free space within 1,000 feet, you and each creature travelling with you take an additional 4d6 points of damage and the spell simply fails. You cannot travel between planes via Lloyd's beacon, though you can with Lloyd's planar beacon. Anchor points are accessible with either spell, but you can only recall to beacons on you current plane with Lloyd's beacon. [size=5]Lloyd's Planar Beacon[/size] Conjuration (Teleportation) Level: Sor/Wiz7 Components: V Casting Time: 1 minute Range: Personal and touch Target: You and other touched objects or other willing creatures Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None and Will negates (object) Spell Resistance: No and Yes (object) Lloyd's planar beacon functions as Lloyd's beacon except you can also access beacons on other planes. Anchor points are accessible with either spell, but you can only recall to beacons on you current plane with Lloyd's beacon.
#2 surreal Sep 29, 2008 0:16:20	I would bump each up a level, and set the limit on checkpoints simply equal to half your character level so there are no silly caster level shenanigans.
#3 sinfire_titan Sep 29, 2008 0:18:50	Ever play Morrowwind? Two of the spells they had in that game were almost identical to the first one you listed. Both of them were removed from Oblivion, due to how much they made the Feather spell useless (you never had to worry about your encumberance, you just needed to cast Mark and warp back to the nearest fort to sell your loot, then warp back to the Marked point using Recall). While incredibly useful, it wasn't exactly broken (due to how hard it was to cast both of those spells, you had to be really high level to get much use out of them) until it was put into an item (which was very easy to find/steal/buy). While your spell is lower level than Teleport, it takes two castings in order to use it effectively (or Twin Spell). This really goes a long way to balance it out. Just do not allow them to make wands of this spell, and it will be ok to allow.
#4 Endarire Sep 29, 2008 14:52:18	I added clarification to the original LB. It now emphasizes that an item of Lloyd's beacon is probably made at minimum caster level (7) and if so, it can only be anchored at 4 points.
#5 CantripN Sep 30, 2008 13:26:03	I'd raise the casting time to 10 Minutes, and then I'd call it a fine, balanced, spell.
#6 muertog Sep 30, 2008 15:21:35	Clerics already have a similar spell: Word of Recall is 6th level (8 for druids), and is limited to the same plane. Teleport is a 5th level spell, and only has to be cast once. Interplanar spells tend to be in the 8th-9th level range. The first one might be alright at 4th level, but the second one should be at least 7th to reflect the power of interplanar travel. I'm giving the spell a 1-level discount due to the imposed limitations, but I would also put a 10 minute casting time (as suggested) to justify the discount and make sure this is not an offensive retreat spell. An alternative would be to ask the DM to make a campaign-specific minor artifact "loaned" to the PCs that would perform the same task (perhaps it has to be left in the destination place 24-48 hours to reset the location).
#7 Endarire Oct 04, 2008 19:54:25	Do you believe Lloyd's beacon would be balanced with this additional clause? "Normally Lloyd's beacon requires a level 4 slot and has a casting time of 1 minute. If you use a level 5 slot, this spell has a 1 round casting time. If you use a level 6 or higher slot, this spell has a swift action casting time." If I did this to LB, I'd likely do the same for LPB; shorter casting times for higher level slots.
#8 hogarth Oct 05, 2008 9:49:49	Personally, I don't like the idea of perfectly accurate unlimited range teleportation with a 4th level spell (something normally reserved for Greater Teleport or Word of Recall or other high level spells). It's not so much that it's "abusable", it just makes those spells somewhat obsolete. And (again on a personal note), I like to see less teleportation in my campaigns, not more. It makes the world feel too small if you can teleport everywhere.
#9 Endarire Oct 05, 2008 22:37:16	hogarth, our opinions differ then.
#10 hogarth Oct 06, 2008 7:26:31	hogarth, our opinions differ then. Sure. Muertog had an excellent point, though: How is this different from Word of Recall other than the longer casting time and the fact that the Beacon can transport you to a variety of different places instead of one specific place and the Beacon allows you to take along more people? I don't believe that adding a longer casting time is enough to reduce a spell's level by much (especially a spell which has a significant non-combat use). And you added a couple of advantages on top of it, to boot.
#11 muertog Oct 06, 2008 12:12:11	If you -really- want people to be able to jaunt around at will, using abilities reminiscent of Diablo's checkpoints in your campaign (and it is -your- campaign), feel free. The wonderful thing about D&D is the complete flexibility that you are allowed. However, if you are a -player- trying to justify a new spell to a DM, you aren't going to get much sympathy regarding this spell from me. Any spell that overlaps or otherwise completely invalidates a higher-level spell is inherently overpowered, unless you are willing to lower the levels of existing spells. Further review: Teleport: Only allows 1 additional creature per -3- caster levels. Refuge: Clr 7; Sorc/Wiz 9 Allows you to create an item that, when broken, will transport 1 creature to your home, or you to the creature. 1.5k gold component. Considered thoughts for balance (Not just one, but multiple selections): >Longer casting time to avoid the players using the spell as a too-cheap "evacuation". Get Out of Jail free cards should -not- be given out too easily. >Higher level spell (which kind of defeats the purpose, since you appear to be trying to make this available to characters sooner). >Limit the number of "return" spots that can be memorized. I recommend 1 (3 at max). >Make it as a minor artifact, so players can't copy the item/effect at will. I hadn't read too carefully on the Planar version of the spell, but there are additional concerns regarding level balance there as well. Plane Shift: Cleric 5th, and Sorc/Wiz 7th. >Only allows up to 8 creatures/players. >Does -not- allow precise accuracy: "Appear 5 to 500 miles from your intended destination", with the focus item a forked rod keyed to a certain plane or dimension. Anyways, you are really pushing for this as a spell, when you get the first ability in one more spell level anyways (teleport). Making the spell as a swift action should be at -least- the same as applying Quicken Spell metamagic, which is a +4 spell level increase. All the spells listed are at least a standard action to cast and/or activate.