Gish-lockdown characters seem like a good way to go about multiclassing a lockdown, in general. Enlarging spells and strength buffs can both increase reach and make the save DCs for your Stand Still go up.
The other thing that comes to mind is that some DMs let you use Cleave on trip attempts. This involves a very weird reading of the rule, but if your DM is one of them, Greater Cleave belongs in any trip-lockdown build.
Stand still plus a lot of bonus damage on it? It is more reliable then triping and is the core of the lockdown build that you are refering to. Now that the damage isn't doubled we need another way to make massive reflex saves.
We can just use the decisive strike variant on flurry of blows to get that same double damage effect, albeit with a -2 to hit at this level. Just need to find a special monk weapon with reach. Or just pick up a little extra natural reach one way or another, which isn't too hard.
Also, I like Karmic Strike and Defensive Throw on tripper builds. Trip 'em if they hit or miss. It's a beutiful thing.
Strongheart Halfing Rogue 12:
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain, Abberant Blood, Inhuman Reach, Combat Reflexes, Stand Still, Swarmfighting
Cohort: Strongheart Halfling Swordsage 6:
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain, Abberrant Blood, Inhuman Reach, Swarmfighting
Maneuvers: All that matters is Island of Blades.
You and your cohort stand in the same square, and he is in the Island of Blades stance at all times. Thus, everything you reach (20') is flanked, and is subject to Sneak Attack at all times. 5d6 of Sneak Attack provides you with the bonus damage to make Stand Still reliable.
We can just use the decisive strike variant on flurry of blows to get that same double damage effect, albeit with a -2 to hit at this level. Just need to find a special monk weapon with reach. Or just pick up a little extra natural reach one way or another, which isn't too hard.
Doesn't the Ki Focus weapon enhancement (SRD) do this?
I updated the build a little. Improvements? This is pretty theoretical right now. CantripN: mind giving a little info on how I'd need to modify the build to use decisive strike and reach? Don't have access to secrets of sarlona right now.
Decisive Strike works just like Overpowering Attack, except:
- With the monk levels we're talking about, there's a -2 to hit,
- One has to use a special monk weapon or an unarmed attack,
- If you hit and you're using Stunning Fist, the stun DC increases by +2.
I don't have access to Secrets of Sarlona either, but given that the spinning sword is a monk weapon with reach, that should be all we need, unless a feat is required to use it or something.
Couple of other suggestions/comments:
- I don't see Thicket of Blades, and we'll probably want it. Isn't it a level 3 stance?
- With one of those free feats, we might want Close-Quarters Fighting so we can deal with grapplers.
- If we're using Stand Still on the AoO, do we still need Improved Trip? We could instead:
- Replace Passive Way Monk 2 with Invisible Eye Monk 1 / X 1. That costs us Evasion, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip, but frees up a level and a fighter bonus feat, which may or may not be useful.
- Just use Monk 2 instead of Passive Way Monk 2. Take Stunning Fist and Combat Reflexes as your monk bonus feats. You'd still have the fighter bonus feat to play with, and we can combine Stunning Fist with Decisive Strike to help make sure we keep our first target in place
- Replace Passive Way Monk 2 with Invisible Eye Monk 1 / X 1. That costs us Evasion, Combat Expertise, and Improved Trip, but frees up a level and a fighter bonus feat, which may or may not be useful.
- If we do keep Improved Trip, Knock-Down would be helpful as well.
Build has been tweaked. It's got all the feats lockdown has minus the wpn focus chain and Close-Quarters Fighting. Not sure that we need close-quarters fighting with monk unarmed damage and PW buffs.
Sure, at high levels grappling's not a problem. If nothing else, we can always use psionic freedom of movement to get around that. Early in the build, though, I'd worry a bit more, since being grappled breaks the lock. It might be worth picking up CQF with, say, the level 6 feat and retraining it into deft opportunist later?
Decisive Strike would have been my first choice but it doesn't work, the attacks in Decisive strike get double damage but AoO's don't if I remember correctly.
I don't remember that being the case, but I don't have PH2 handy to check either.
I only barely get access to level four powers. For the filler one, I'm thinking lion totem barbarian (clashes with monk, so not good). Know of any full bab class that grants one of the feats I'm already taking at first level?
I can't think of anything off the top of my head. There's feat rogue, but of course that's not full bab. I'm pretty sure that there's a ranger combat style in Dragon magazine that would let you snag power attack at ranger 2, for what it's worth.
I believe Pierce Magical Concealment has Blind-Fight as a pre-req feat.
Also, I don't know many DMs that would let the Mage Slayer feat chain not reduce manifester level as well as caster level (-12 levels in your build).
If ToB is allowed, hopping around and grabbing more of that goodness is probably advisable.
Nope. AoOs get double damage as well.
Nevermind then. Has anyone given thought to Shadow Sun Ninja?
Personally, I'd drop Improved Trip. With your serious damage from Decisive Strike, Standstill works just as well. I'd also try to fit in Deep Impact (for use with Stormguard Warrior) by dropping Combat Expertise and Imp. Initiative or make sure to take Emerald Razor and keep it.
And it's Robilar's Gambit.
Loosing a BAB kinda sucks, which you could make up for if your weapon was a possible target for discipline focus, but if you are using spinning sword that is out (unless you make it an aptitude weapon...hmmm). Swordsage helps shore up your saves and gets +1 init as well. But if you are using a lower point buy for stats this may not be an attractive option. You may also want to work in Adaptive Style if you go this route.
Lockdown Version 3.0
fighter2/wizard6(UA variant that gets fighter feats instead of metamagic/item creation feats)/spellsword5/eldritchknight7
17 BAB, 15 CL
I'll do the feats later but I am getting 6 bonus feats from this build, I won't use the mage slayer feats so I won't screw over my spellcasting.
EDIT: Okay, final version only doesn't qualify for Defensive Sweep... Looking good, though. BTW, I'd prefer to see Stormguard sooner, just for general damage. Also, PMP doesn't work with Decisive Strike as it's a Standard Action.
Screw it. I'll just drop a link off since I suck with ToB.
If I have the time, I might do it tomorrow... I'd just finished making a Warblade 20, so I'm clear on how to go about it.
With a DM kind enough to let you take the exoticist fighter variant, what I have below ought to work - assuming I haven't made any mistakes, anyway. Given that it relies on a generous DM, and one would have to play as a human (or give up Improved Init), I wouldn't suggest this as anything more than a potentially useful footnote, but still:
Human Exoticist Fighter 1/ Invisible EyeUA Monk 1/ Warblade 1/ Crusader 1/ Feat rogueUA 2/ Warblade +1/ Crusader +1/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Warblade +11
Level Feats:
1) Stand Still
3) Power Attack
6) Deft opportunist
9) Pierce Magical Protection
12) Stormguard Warrior
15) Robilar's Gambit
18) Pierce Magical Concealment
Bonus feats:
1 Human) Improved Initiative
1 Fighter 1) Exotic Weapon Focus (Spinning Sword)
2 Monk 1) Combat Reflexes, IUS
5) Feat Rogue 1) Mage Slayer
6) Feat Rogue 2) CQF
12) Warblade 5) Ironheart
16) Warblade 9) Blindfight
20) Warblade 13) not much good here.
Alternative class features: decisive strike (PH2)
Preicise strike ignores anything less than total cover. Do you think that's enough?
I was just gonna say - now that you've managed precise strike, EWM doesn't have much point, since it doesn't let you ignore total cover either.
Added in preview: Or, you could have edited while I was replying. Oops!
I'm not ready for that yet.
I suppose the situation will never go that bad.
On a lighter note, I managed to shuffle the feats to get precise swing in. Now there is an open feat at 18. Ideas?
Well, at one point you'd taken Supernatural Instincts. Being a simple soul, I'd probably just be inclined to take a martial study and snag an extra 7th level maneuver, but I'm sure there are better uses out there.
Credit for this idea primarily goes to aelryinth for his great lockdown build:
Fighter 1/ Invisible EyeUA Monk 1/fighter +1/WarbladeToB 1/Feat rogueUA 2/ CrusaderToB 2/ Warblade +4/ Psychic warrior 2/ Warblade +6
Level Feats:
1) StandstillXPH
3) Power Attack
6) Deft opportunistMHB
9) Precise SwingECS
12) Stormguard WarriorToB
15) Robilar's GambitPH2
18) Supernatural instinctsFC2
Bonus feats:
1 Fighter 1) Improved init
2 Monk 1) Combat Reflexes, IUS
3) Fighter 2) EWP(spinning swordSecrets of Sarlona)
5) Feat Rogue 1) Mage SlayerCA
6) Feat Rogue 2) Close Quarters FightingCW
12) Warblade 5) IronheartToB
13) Psychic Warrior 1) Pierce Magical Protection CA
14) Psychic Warrior 2) Pierce Magical Concealment CA
18) Warblade 9) Blindfight
Alternative class features: decisive strike (PH2)
For warblade maneuvers check out [post=13378339]this[/post].
Some commentary:
Your choices of manuvers will be very important, as they are going to form most of your offensive punch.
Note that you've chosen a one-handed weapon with reach. That means no extra Str bonus and no ability to Power Attack. You might want to just take Longspear, the Eberron fear that allows it as a weapon for monks, and then Short Haft...
You have to play human or you have multiclass xp penalties. Not so good.
Your Psychic Warrior levels gives you two feats, but costs you a BAB and you don't have an effective manifester level. Some of the best feats you could possibly take with a build like this are, however, based on your psychic focus (Deep IMpact, notably) which doesn't actually require that you have a manifester level.
Your MAD is all over the place. This is a Dex build, requires high Wis for AC since it can't use a Shield, high Int to max out Warblade optionals (esp for AoO), and has no Str synergy to speak of. Without really high stats, there could be problems.
Your total BAB is 17. For a primary melee combatant, this is not very good, especially since you don't get access to the best warblade abilities because of the cross classing. There are gishes that do better.
I freely admit there's ways to duplicate the number of feats a fighter gets...but not without at least some cost, at least in this build (wiz,rogue and psy war levels.) It looks to me like your damage is going to suffer, and you can't use all those Warblade manuvers as dmg to make your Lock.
This looks more like an AoO build to channel Stormguard Warrior then a Lock build. It's hard to picture it doing the appropriate amount of dmg.
AC looks okay, but no shield option (Lockdown at least has the animated Shield optional).
I'm trying to see what the build has that really makes it cool, and not really seeing it as something that stands out to me. You'd probably have to go more indepth on skills and tactics to see where his strength is and where he'd shine. He's definitely got a little bit of everything, however.
===Aelryinth
Note that you've chosen a one-handed weapon with reach. That means no extra Str bonus and no ability to Power Attack. You might want to just take Longspear, the Eberron fear that allows it as a weapon for monks, and then Short Haft...
Why can't he use Power Attack? If the spinning sword's a light weapon, then of course he can't, but if it's a one-handed weapon, he's good to go - though admittedly he doesn't get the same power attack multiplier. I fear I don't have Secrets of Sarlona, so I don't know whether it's light or one-handed.
Serpent Strike is the feat for longspear you're thinking of, and it was my first thought, but... technically, he doesn't qualify for the feat. To take it, he would need to have the flurry of blows class ability, and it's been swapped for decisive strike, so that sinks that idea, barring DM kindness.
Your MAD is all over the place. This is a Dex build, requires high Wis for AC since it can't use a Shield, high Int to max out Warblade optionals (esp for AoO), and has no Str synergy to speak of. Without really high stats, there could be problems.
I worry a bit about the MAD also. I'm not sure that he can't use a shield, though - there's nothing in the decisive strike text to say that one loses that ability when one would lose flurry, though I don't think it would be an unreasonable thing for a DM to rule. Personally, while higher Int is always better, I'm comfortable dumping it somewhat.
Your total BAB is 17. For a primary melee combatant, this is not very good, especially since you don't get access to the best warblade abilities because of the cross classing. There are gishes that do better.
Well, he picks up 8th level maneuvers, anyway, though he does miss out on the very top end, yes. Still, I don't think 8th level maneuvers are terribly shabby. BAB is a bit lower than it could be, but hardly terrible.
I freely admit there's ways to duplicate the number of feats a fighter gets...but not without at least some cost, at least in this build (wiz,rogue and psy war levels.) It looks to me like your damage is going to suffer, and you can't use all those Warblade manuvers as dmg to make your Lock.
Yeah, he's not going to pump out as much damage in his AoOs as the fighter version. Still, given that he manages double damage on the AoO, I should think that the damage ought to be at least respectable enough to lock down a large subset of opponents. For the rest, he can fall back on maneuvers. That's not ideal, but eh.
Let's see... comparing builds, and with the same stats... Your build had the weapon spec tree, which gave you +6 to damage, and used a two-handed weapon, for another +5 from Str. So a back of the envelope calculation suggests that the save DC for stand still here is 20-25 points lower with decisive strike up. And admittedly, that's a problem - quite possibly, in an AMF we're not succeeding with the lock.
archerpwr, one thing that strikes me is that, having taken the mage slayer feat chain all the way through, all the psywar levels do is give you a few bonus feats. Earlier, you had a build up with some decent manifesting, modulo the mage slayer feat chain. Might it be worth playing around with that approach more and just dumping pierce magical concealment/protection?
Anyhow, let me know when you're done so I can do the maneuvers; They're kinda dependant on level (also, try to make it so the Warblade levels are staggered and spread throughout the build so he has level appropriate stuff at every point).
Is defensive sweep worth two fighter levels? I dropped it in favor of more warblade.
Defensive Sweeps power is that once the opponent is Locked, you are guaranteed to do more dmg to them, since you get an AoO if they don't move. I left it as the last feat because it's situational, and getting max dmg out of the build was not a priority. Against spellcasters in an AMF, however, it's a nice way to guarantee at least one additional hit per round.
===Aelryinth
Also, Momar brings up a good point, though I don't know the answer.
I think the levels are set then.
I'll do the maneuvers on the morn, then.
Hmm. A part of me almost wants to say that you might want to drop PMP/PMC/supernatural instincts for focus/specialization/melee weapon mastery. Not that those are good feats, but with decisive strike up, it's a +8 to the stand still DC, or a +14 if you can power attack away the +3 to hit you'd get from mastery and weapon focus. Not sure that the sacrifice would be worth it - I suppose that depends on the kind of DCs you want.
Also, Momar brings up a good point, though I don't know the answer.
He's using a finesse weapon...he can't Power Attack with it anyways (the spinning sword) nor would he get the double bonus from Power Attack. He'd have to shift to a longspear or other weapon.
====Aelryinth
He's using a finesse weapon...he can't Power Attack with it anyways (the spinning sword) nor would he get the double bonus from Power Attack. He'd have to shift to a longspear or other weapon.
====Aelryinth
Nothing prohibits you from using power attack and weapon finesse at the same time, nor getting the 2x power attack multiplier while doing so. I'm not familiar with the weapon itself, so I don't know if it is legal to do this with, but you can certainly do it with things like a spiked chain.
Warblade Maneuvers:
Warblade 1 - Action Before Thought, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap
Warblade 2 - Emerald Razor
Warblade 3 - Iron Heart Surge
Warblade 4 - Wolf Fang Strike => White Raven Tactics
Warblade 5 - Lightning Recovery
Warblade 6 - Action Before Thought => Rapid Counter
Warblade 7 - Iron Heart Focus
Warblade 8 - Sudden Leap => Moment of Alacrity
Warblade 9 - Insightful Strike, Greater
Warblade 10 - Emerald Razor => Quicksilver Motion
Warblade 11 - Scything Blade
Warblade Stances:
Warblade 1 - Punishing Stance
Warblade 4 - Roots of the Mountain
Warblade 10 - Press the Advantage
Crusader Maneuvers:
Crusader 1 - Foehammer, Mountain Hammer, Stone Vice, Tactical Strike, Douse the Flames.
Crusader Stances:
Crusader 1 - Martial Spirit
Crusader 2 - Thicket of Blades
Also, how do you get around enemies who use Spring Attack and the like?
Sudden Leap/Moment of Alacrity/Quicksilver Motion are used to approach without losing the ability to make a Decisive Strike.
Lightning Recovery means your Decisive Strike won't miss.
Rapid Counter is 2 AOOs for one provoking action.
Scything Blade actually lets you make another attack when making your Decisive Strike, also at double damage!
Under your assumptions on the build, list the fact that you consider Decisive Strike as applying in armor, despite the fact that Flurry of Blows, which it replaces, does not.
Secondly, the TH penalty for Decisive Strike goes away at the same rate as flurry, so at level 20 you do not have a TH penalty.
Note also that relying on the casters for your buffs is one of the 'weaknesses' of the fighter, pearls of power or not. It's also a subtle way of freeing up level cash for other benefits, used a lot by Arena builds. It's also why my original build actually owns a +7 effect sword, and not a +1 Sword with lots of goodies.
A decent choice of manuvers, and the warblade recovery method. I'd specifically list out the manuvers you have ready as a default as a guide to playing the build, and the ones that are optional for specific situations. The warblade only has a limited amount available during a fight, remember!
Lastly, give the defenses and base saves to give people a better foundation idea for the class.
Thought about S-blocking my original post, which is really, really long, but ah well. I'd leave open some of the core data just so people can look at the original build at a glance, and go poking for more information if they want it. Just a style thing.
==Aelryinth
I'm steering my party's Crusader/Stand Still lockdown melee thug here for advice. He could use it!
Nitpick : Deft Opportunist is not a Fighter feat in CAdv (latest printing). Switch it with PA.
Trading off a lower ability to hit for an even lower ability to hit for some extra dmg is generally not something you want to have happen for any form of a primary melee in the party. You want him to hit and to deal damage without having to resort to either.
a feat that ups his base ability to hit or do dmg would probably make a better choice. Deft Opportunist is supremely useful for this build because it adds a major bonus to hit.
Note that this build hits marginally better then the Core Lockdown's third iterative. It's giving up a lot for Decisive Strike early. Deft opportunist should definitely be in the build.
===Aelryinth
Warblade 1 - Action Before Thought, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap
Warblade 2 - Emerald Razor
Warblade 3 - Iron Heart Surge
Warblade 4 - Wolf Fang Strike => White Raven Tactics
Warblade 5 - Lightning Recovery
Warblade 6 - Action Before Thought => Rapid Counter
Warblade 7 - Iron Heart Focus
Warblade 8 - Sudden Leap => Crushing Vice
Warblade 9 - Moment of Alacrity
Warblade 10 - White Raven Tactics => Quicksilver Motion
Warblade 11 - Scything Blade
Warblade Stances:
Warblade 1 - Punishing Stance
Warblade 4 - Roots of the Mountain
Warblade 10 - Press the Advantage
Crusader Maneuvers:
Crusader 1 - Foehammer, Mountain Hammer, Stone Vice, Tactical Strike, Douse the Flames.
Crusader Stances:
Crusader 1 - Martial Spirit
Crusader 2 - Thicket of Blades
There. Better now.
Stone vise does require a save, its a fortitude 12 + str to negate.
Crushing Vice, not Stone Vice.
The #1 problem I see is that I can't find where the swinging sword is a Monk weapon. I may very well be wrong, but if not here's what I'd do:
Instead of the Invisible Eye variant monk, take the Martial Monk variant from Dragon 310 and ditch EWM 2. Get proficiency with any exotic polearm that trips and you have no net loss of abilities. Pole Master at 9 makes it flurry-able and because of the extra bonus feat from Martial Monk you can take it without a net feat or BAB loss. Bad news is, though, that if you want Short Haft, you'll have to commit to Human, take flaws, or lose Power Attack.
Deft opportunist is in the build. It's the level three feat. I agree that deft opportunist is really important. That's why I tried to put it in as early as possible. I can power attack with the spinning sword; just not very well. It just feels wrong to not have power attack in a melee build.
I have wpn focus, wpn spec, and melee wpn mastery as options at the bottom. I just didn't feel like they were quite worth the feat slots. It was a close enough decision that I gave them honorable mentions though. With any sort of buffing the to hit can go up quite a bit, so I left the relatively small static bonus that wpn focus and melee wpn mastery out of the basic build.
Edit: just looked at our two builds side by side...
Wpn focus chain aside, the only feat you get as early as I do is pierce magical protection. Multiclassing really does do it better.
If all you want are the feats, there are builds that will get them even faster then yours. You also have to look at the BAB you are giving up to get the feats...part of the core Lockdown is having that 20 BAB, and including the 'signature' fighter feats, even as optional, to up that ability to hit. He can reliably pound down even the oldest red dragons, his TH is so high.
The build also doesn't have to footsie around with tons of multi-classing and possible xp penalties. So, there's tradeoffs. I imagine if I got rid of the WS tree and JUST concentrated on getting feats fast, there wouldn't be a lot of difference...but it wasn't a concern, anyways.
===Aelryinth
I just realized that pierce magical protection is completely incompatable with decisive strike... I ended up dropping the last two fighter levels, precise swing, PMP, and PMC for two Exotic Weapon Master levels, weapon focus, defensive sweep, exotic reach, and exotic trip. Thoughts? Blindfight is almost as good as PMC.
Pierce Magical Protection is taken as an action...it's like a Dispel Attack. You come in as a standard attack, and instead of just hitting him and doing damage, you hit him, do damage, ignore all his magical defenses, AND strip him of magical defenses. In short, it's how you spend a standard attack action any time you have to make one and can't get off a full attack.
In short, there's no penalty for using PMP whenever you have a Standard Action to take.
But, PMP and PMC should be optional...they are mainly anti-spellcaster, and if you don't want that kind of focus, swap them out.
I also don't know the pre-reqs for EWM off the top of my head. Relying on a weapon from Secrets of Sarlonna might be pushing stuff for some DM's, but YMMV, as always.
===Aelryinth
EDIT: Dude! Stop messing with the levels! I don't have the time to redo the maneuvers every Monday.
*smacks forehead*
I hate my memory. Thanks for the correction. Do you think exotic weapon master is worth a second level?
What for? Soft Cover doesn't apply against Reach weapons, and it's not a Spiked Chain, so no Flurry. The only option is to use a Large Spinning Sword (It becomes a Two-Handed Weapon for wielding) and take Uncanny Blow, but this is cheesy as hell.
Warblade 1 - Action Before Thought, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap
Warblade 2 - Emerald Razor
Warblade 3 - Iron Heart Surge
Warblade 4 - Wolf Fang Strike => White Raven Tactics
Warblade 5 - Lightning Recovery
Warblade 6 - Action Before Thought => Rapid Counter
Warblade 7 - Iron Heart Focus
Warblade 8 - Sudden Leap => Crushing Vice
Warblade 9 - Moment of Alacrity
Warblade 10 - Emerald Razor => Quicksilver Motion
Warblade 11 - Scything Blade
Warblade Stances:
Warblade 1 - Punishing Stance
Warblade 4 - Roots of the Mountain
Warblade 10 - Press the Advantage
Crusader Maneuvers:
Crusader 1 - Foehammer, Mountain Hammer, Stone Vice, Tactical Strike, Douse the Flames.
Crusader Stances:
Crusader 1 - Martial Spirit
Crusader 2 - Thicket of Blades
Apparently, you can trade a requirement for a maneuver at the same level you get it, so I opted to keep WRT. Will update again if the levels (and IL) change. I'd love to add Stance of Alacrity, but you simply lack the IL...
I just realized I can add in one more warblade level. I may be able to get it in.
Doesn't help, unless you can get IL 15 by level 18 and grab it with a feat. Otherwise, you simply won't get a Stance to match your improved IL.
What's the point of EWM, btw? Ignoring Cover? I can't say I'd ever encountered any, except Soft Cover (people), and you ignore that anyway.
The more Warblade IL we have to play with, the more tricks he can do...
So, just rely on the maneuver? So far I've tried to keep the readied maneuvers uncritical. I'll drop the EWM level if you think it's better.
Adding Warblade levels and not relying on maneuvers is like taking Fighter 20 and saying feats don't matter.
Once again, in order to get Sudden Leap early, you need IL 3 at your first level of Warblade. And if you were to add one more level of non-Warblade somewhere and put one of the Fighter levels at level 20, you'd be able to pick up Martial Stance (Stance of Alacrity). Since you use a lot of Swift Actions (Boosts) and Immediate Actions (Counters), you'll want this. It also improves the Warblade maneuvers in general slightly.
One fo the problems with a warblade is the number of manuvers readied he has. Sure, he might KNOW a dozen manuvers, but if he can only access 5 at a time, it really cuts down on his 'ubahness', especially if they are counters and buffs he keeps tearing through.
This is a very deliberate weakness of the warblade, having to use every 3rd rd or so to refresh his manuvers and go to a default attack. Once you start adding up the cool buffs and defenses of the warblade, their offensive power starts falling by the wayside. They start running into a Fighter problem...they can't have enough manuvers readied to satisfy all their needs!
===Aelryinth
Well, since wis is a dump stat, the DC is pretty low. Know anything that I could use that replaces the first monk bonus feat?
Can't you take Fiery Ki feats from PHB 2 or something like that?
I even think you can use Strikes while you're there (you can Attack or cast a Standard Action spell, after all)...
Sadly (?), I had to give up on White Raven Tactics. I figured you already have so many Swift/Immediate Action maneuvers that you wouldn't get to use it, and I can only reasonably fit it in at a high level, when you have other options.
Can we do a level order of:
Feat RogueUA 1/ Monk 2/ Fighter 1/ CrusaderToB 1/ WarbladeToB 1/ Fighter +1/ Crusader +1/ Warblade +3/ Feat Rogue +1/ Warblade +1/ Witch SlayerToM 2/ Warblade + 5 ?
Maneuvers
Crusader 1 (IL 3): Stone Bones, Mountain Hammer, Foehammer, Shield Block, Crusader's Strike.
Warblade 1 (IL 3): Rabid Wolf Strike, Sudden Leap, Action Before Thought.
Warblade 2 (IL 5): Iron Heart Surge
Warblade 3 (IL 6): Emerald Razor
Warblade 4 (IL 7): Rabid Wolf Strike => Lightning Recovery
Warblade 5 (IL 9): Rapid Counter
Warblade 6 (IL 11): Sudden Leap => Crushing Vice
Warblade 7 (IL 12): Iron Heart Focus
Warblade 8 (IL 13): Action Before Thought => Quicksilver Motion
Warblade 9 (IL 14): Scything Blade
Warblade 10 (IL 15): Emerald Razor => Avalanche of Blades
Stances:
Crusader 1: Martial Spirit
Crusader 2: Thicket of Blades
Warblade 1: Punishing Stance
Warblade 4: Wolverine Stance
Warblade 10: Stance of Alacrity
...Guys, I'm seriously not seeing where Spinning Sword is a Monk weapon.
If that's correct, then we may have a problem...
EDIT: Seems to be.We can use a Hook Sword with another 2 feats (WF: Hook Sword and Flying Tiger), I guess... I'm hoping there's something more cost-effective. That said, Close Quarters Fighting is not needed anymore, since you can fight just fine in a grapple. Power Attack can also go away, as you don't really need damage if it means you miss. Would Abberation Blood (instead of EWP) + Inhuman Reach (Instead of CQF) do? You can then take Starspawn if you wish, too.
Also, the maneuvers are done. I considered putting Wolf Climbs The Mountain in there, but decided not to.
I'd rather have improved evasion, but that's a personal thing.
Nobody's offering it. Only Master Thrower can stack Evasion like that.
Flying Tiger requirements: DEX 15, EWP, WF, TWF or Monk, BAB +1.
This is not a Fighter bonus feat, however, and the feat is written in a very annoying manner: It says "When taking a Full Attack action, you may hook 2 Hook Swords together as a Free Action... while hooked... act as a Reach weapon that also threatens adjacent".
Can we use it with Decisive Strike (It's a Full Round Action, not a Full Attack)?
Does it have reach outside your turn?
It's not amazing, either way.
BTW, it means that Wolverine Stance is of no use anymore (it's not a one handed weapon), so you might as well bring CQF back and pick another stance...
Got any particular (up to 4th level) Stane you want? Any 8th (or lower) level maneuver? Want Wolf Climbs The Mountain for +4 AC, assured AOO and no AOOs on you?
Feat RogueUA 1/ Monk 2/ Fighter 1/ CrusaderToB 1/ WarbladeToB 1/ Fighter +1/ Crusader +1/ Warblade +3/ Feat Rogue +1/ Warblade +1/ Witch SlayerToM 2/ Warblade + 5
Level Feats:
1) Standstill
3) Deft Opportunist
6) Serpent Strike
9) Adaptive Style
12) Stormguard Warrior
15) Robilar's Gambit
18) Defensive Sweep
Bonus feats:
1) Feat Rogue 1) Power Attack
2) Monk 1) Improved Grapple, IUS
3) Monk 2) Combat Reflexes
4) Fighter 1) Wpn Focus(longspear)
7) Fighter 2) Mage Slayer
12) Warblade 5) Ironheart
15) Feat Rogue 2) PMP
19) Warblade 9) Improved Initiative
Alternative class features: decisive strike (PH2), Spell Reflection (CM)
Due to the bab prereq CQF couldn't fit back in.
The one thing we should note is that I'm not sure that technically we can do this, although your DM would have to be pretty cruel to disallow it. After all, Serpent Strike requires the flurry of blows class feature and lockdown 2.0 doesn't have it.
Edit: Hamstring strike would be nice too. Kinda eliminates most of the dexterous foes...
Not really. I'm using warblade for maneuverability. I'm gunna trust your judgement on what is best.
In that case...
Roots of the Mountain instead of Wolverine Stance.
As for the 8th level maneuver, I'm not sure... There are no 8th level maneuvers you really need... Avalanche of Blades would allow you to utilize Stormguard Warrior when you need to, Iron Heart Endurance would allow you to heal 30 HP as a Swift Action, Adamantine Bones would give you DR 20/Adamantine for a round, Diamond Defense is +15 to a save...
I think I'll go with Avalanche, just in case...
As for the "other options", if you want Pounce, we can easily put Pouncing Charge in there; There's not much point as per RAW, but we can.
I wouldn't put it in the default build just because of the RAW issues. What maneuver would it replace if it went in so I can note it in the other options area?
You'd give up Roots of the Mountain for some Tiger Claw Stance (Hunter's Sense @1 and Absolute Steel Stance @4, possibly), take Pouncing Charge instead of Rapid Counter, take Rapid Counter instead of Crushing Vice, take Crushing Vice instead of Iron Heart Focus, and take Iron Heart Focus instead of Avalanche of Blades.
Essentially, you push some maneuvers back and don't get Iron Heart Focus until level 20. You don't get Avalanche of Blades.
Is there a reason you take Feat Rogue over Psychic Warrior? Both provide 2 bonus feats in 2 levels, but Psywar gives you a tiny number of psionic powers, whereas feat rogue just gives you evasion for the second time (unless I missed something, you get evasion from monk and rogue).
I seem to remember some sort of issue with Magekiller and ML. Personally, I don't think it's a problem.
Don't hit me!
I can get 3 reactions: 1. Stop posting to up your post count, ya ****. Rabble, rabble, rabble. 2. Why, no it isn't, thank you. 3. It is (, here's why...)
Pole Master
Your monastic training included extensive work with pole arms.
Prerequisites: Proficiency with a specific haftd reach weapon, Weapon Focus (same specific hafted reach weapon), base attack bonus +1, flurry of blows class feature.
Benefit: You can treat a hafted reach weapon as a special monk weapon, allowing you to perform flurry of blows with it. Examples of such weapons include the glaive, longspear, ranseur, and Talenta sharrash.
Duom: The duom is a longspear with a standard spearhead, as well as two blades curved so that they point backward along the shaft. The weapon has reach, allowing you to strike opponents 10 feet away with it. Those proficient with the duom can also attack adjacent foes with the reversed heads using a practiced “reverse thrust.” Apply a –2 penalty on the attack roll if you use the duom to attack a second, adjacent opponent in the same round you attacked the first opponent.
The duom is a two-handed polearm that deals 1d8/
Rope Dart
A rope dart consists of a spike or piercing blade attached to a 20-foot length of rope. Propelled by precise strikes from the hands, feet, elbows, and knees, combined with intricate coiling of the rope around every part of the body, the rope dart can stab at opponents from every direction and angle at incredible speed.
A rope dart has a long reach, so you can strike opponents 15 feet away with it. In addition, unlike most other weapons with reach, it can be used against an adjacent foe.
Because the rope dart can wrap around an enemy's leg or other limb, you can make trip attacks with it. If you are tripped during your own trip attempt, you can drop the rope dart to avoid being tripped.
When using a rope dart, you get a +2 bonus on opposed attack rolls made to disarm an opponent (including the roll to avoid being disarmed if such an attempt fails).
You can use the Weapon Finesse feat to apply your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to attack rolls with a rope dart sized for you, even though it isn't a light weapon for you.
Monks are not automatically proficient with the rope dart, but if they take the feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency (rope dart), they can use the rope dart when making attacks with their flurry of blows ability.
A variation of the rope dart called the meteor hammer exists, replacing the dart with a solid metal ball that does bludgeoning damage rather than piercing damage. A character proficient with the rope dart is proficient with the meteor hammer.
Type: Two-handed; Cost: 3 gp; Damage (S): 1d3; Damage (M): 1d4; Critical:
bumpo
Read the OP before bumping.
We didnt lose Archer, his ego grew to planet size and he drifted off the planet....he'll come back down once he is out of his teens
He's still around, occasionally. I really don't see how that escalated to him leaving, it really wasn't that bad. None of it.
We didnt lose Archer, his ego grew to planet size and he drifted off the planet....he'll come back down once he is out of his teens
I'm still at TGD. I just rarely check this forum anymore. Sometimes I go to BG when I'm bored to argue with JaronK.
I don't go to TGD, except to browse. The weenie filter I post through, disallows the adult language; boo, tough beans.
So TGD is?
www.tgdmb.com
It's a bit rougher than WotC.
One of the early on exiles was Frank Trollman ... demons cackle , old ladies scream , etc ...
google: The Wish and The Word
hopefully it hasn't been White Screen of Death'd.
Along with the Hive, it's one of the pre- pun-pun builds.
Fun.