Look, ma, no hands! The one-man bard band. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Look, ma, no hands! The one-man bard band.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kuroimaken
Apr 15, 2008 20:30:06 So I was taking a look at the Animate Instrument spell the other day, and I had a very, very evil idea. Basically, it involves the Subsonics feat, this spell, and an oodle of instruments.

The catch of this spell is that it basically changes the bardic music ability into a spell, thus allowing metamagic feats to work with it.

As such, the basic idea is to persist Animate Instrument so the music plays itself for you. The spell is, unfortunately, rather ambiguous in two aspects:

1)Whether the swift action is used for the instrument to pick up the song where you left it or to start the song itself,

and

2)Whether it can mantain more than one song at any given time.

If the answer to number 2 is no, then you're going to need a lot of instruments. If it's yes, then you really only need one.

The subsonics feat is just there so people don't get annoyed at the fact you're a walking, lit jukebox.

Of course, the tricky part is persisting the spell. Dipping into cleric to use DMM is out, obviously, but there should be other ways of making it work. Alternatively, you could just give your masterwork instrument(s) a continuous Animate Instrument effect for 32.000 GP. I'm not sure whether that's considered cheap or not, but it's an investment.

Thoughts?
#2
kuroimaken
Apr 16, 2008 10:41:36 Either this trick is perfect (and thus no one posted a reply) or it's so flawed it doesn't MERIT a reply. I'd like to know which.
#3
swiftblu
Apr 16, 2008 11:33:01 What book is the spell in?

Metamagic Song and a few Extra Musics can easily persist a pile of spells for you. A dip into Chameleon for the floating feat would actually provide more Bardic Music uses (4) than the two levels of Bard you give up (2), assuming you spend that feat on Extra Music. I'm not sure what other classes provide completely open-ended bonus feats, but if the dip is less than four levels, you get more effective Bardic Music uses than straight Bard, and I'm sure there are items that give you more uses on top of that.
#4
kuroimaken
Apr 16, 2008 11:37:45
What book is the spell in?

Complete Scoundrel.

Metamagic Song and a few Extra Musics can easily persist a pile of spells for you.

Metamagic Song can't break the maximum spell level you can cast. That means you can't normally persist any 2nd-level spell as a bard unless you can reduce the spell slot requirements by 2 (Arcane Thesis only allows one step down, for example).

A dip into Chameleon for the floating feat would actually provide more Bardic Music uses (4) than the two levels of Bard you give up (2), assuming you spend that feat on Extra Music. I'm not sure what other classes provide completely open-ended bonus feats, but if the dip is less than four levels, you get more effective Bardic Music uses than straight Bard, and I'm sure there are items that give you more uses on top of that.

Now THAT looks yummy.
#5
thorian
Apr 16, 2008 16:14:56 Animate Instrument has a range of touch and is therefore does not meet the criteria for application of the persistent spell feat.

You would have to use some questionable rules tricks like occular spell, etc. (which is debatable as well).
#6
tshern
Apr 16, 2008 16:56:44
Animate Instrument has a range of touch and is therefore does not meet the criteria for application of the persistent spell feat.

You would have to use some questionable rules tricks like occular spell, etc. (which is debatable as well).

What's so questionable in Ocular spell?
#7
wih
Apr 16, 2008 18:30:43
I'm not sure what other classes provide completely open-ended bonus feats

Half-Elf and Human Paragon do. Be a Half-Elf and you can do both.
#8
kuroimaken
Apr 17, 2008 0:25:04
Animate Instrument has a range of touch and is therefore does not meet the criteria for application of the persistent spell feat.

You would have to use some questionable rules tricks like occular spell, etc. (which is debatable as well).

That's strange... I was under the impression that touch range spells were eligible for Persist Spell.
#9
ratpick
Apr 17, 2008 5:32:14
That's strange... I was under the impression that touch range spells were eligible for Persist Spell.

Persist Spell allows for spells with fixed or personal range, so I should assume that touch spells would be eligible.
#10
thorian
Apr 17, 2008 15:49:43
Persist Spell allows for spells with fixed or personal range, so I should assume that touch spells would be eligible.

They aren't.

Personal means range personal, and fixed means a fixed distance like a 30' emanation or something similar.
#11
ratpick
Apr 17, 2008 16:35:08
They aren't.

Personal means range personal, and fixed means a fixed distance like a 30' emanation or something similar.

So, yet another misinterpretation on my part. Thanks for clearing that up.
#12
kuroimaken
Apr 18, 2008 16:06:27
They aren't.

Personal means range personal, and fixed means a fixed distance like a 30' emanation or something similar.

An instrument with a continuous Animate Instrument effect is still viable, though. And not really THAT expensive for its effects.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kuroimaken Apr 15, 2008 20:30:06	So I was taking a look at the Animate Instrument spell the other day, and I had a very, very evil idea. Basically, it involves the Subsonics feat, this spell, and an oodle of instruments. The catch of this spell is that it basically changes the bardic music ability into a spell, thus allowing metamagic feats to work with it. As such, the basic idea is to persist Animate Instrument so the music plays itself for you. The spell is, unfortunately, rather ambiguous in two aspects: 1)Whether the swift action is used for the instrument to pick up the song where you left it or to start the song itself, and 2)Whether it can mantain more than one song at any given time. If the answer to number 2 is no, then you're going to need a lot of instruments. If it's yes, then you really only need one. The subsonics feat is just there so people don't get annoyed at the fact you're a walking, lit jukebox. Of course, the tricky part is persisting the spell. Dipping into cleric to use DMM is out, obviously, but there should be other ways of making it work. Alternatively, you could just give your masterwork instrument(s) a continuous Animate Instrument effect for 32.000 GP. I'm not sure whether that's considered cheap or not, but it's an investment. Thoughts?
#2 kuroimaken Apr 16, 2008 10:41:36	Either this trick is perfect (and thus no one posted a reply) or it's so flawed it doesn't MERIT a reply. I'd like to know which.
#3 swiftblu Apr 16, 2008 11:33:01	What book is the spell in? Metamagic Song and a few Extra Musics can easily persist a pile of spells for you. A dip into Chameleon for the floating feat would actually provide more Bardic Music uses (4) than the two levels of Bard you give up (2), assuming you spend that feat on Extra Music. I'm not sure what other classes provide completely open-ended bonus feats, but if the dip is less than four levels, you get more effective Bardic Music uses than straight Bard, and I'm sure there are items that give you more uses on top of that.
#4 kuroimaken Apr 16, 2008 11:37:45	What book is the spell in? Complete Scoundrel. Metamagic Song and a few Extra Musics can easily persist a pile of spells for you. Metamagic Song can't break the maximum spell level you can cast. That means you can't normally persist any 2nd-level spell as a bard unless you can reduce the spell slot requirements by 2 (Arcane Thesis only allows one step down, for example). A dip into Chameleon for the floating feat would actually provide more Bardic Music uses (4) than the two levels of Bard you give up (2), assuming you spend that feat on Extra Music. I'm not sure what other classes provide completely open-ended bonus feats, but if the dip is less than four levels, you get more effective Bardic Music uses than straight Bard, and I'm sure there are items that give you more uses on top of that. Now THAT looks yummy.
#5 thorian Apr 16, 2008 16:14:56	Animate Instrument has a range of touch and is therefore does not meet the criteria for application of the persistent spell feat. You would have to use some questionable rules tricks like occular spell, etc. (which is debatable as well).
#6 tshern Apr 16, 2008 16:56:44	Animate Instrument has a range of touch and is therefore does not meet the criteria for application of the persistent spell feat. You would have to use some questionable rules tricks like occular spell, etc. (which is debatable as well). What's so questionable in Ocular spell?
#7 wih Apr 16, 2008 18:30:43	I'm not sure what other classes provide completely open-ended bonus feats Half-Elf and Human Paragon do. Be a Half-Elf and you can do both.
#8 kuroimaken Apr 17, 2008 0:25:04	Animate Instrument has a range of touch and is therefore does not meet the criteria for application of the persistent spell feat. You would have to use some questionable rules tricks like occular spell, etc. (which is debatable as well). That's strange... I was under the impression that touch range spells were eligible for Persist Spell.
#9 ratpick Apr 17, 2008 5:32:14	That's strange... I was under the impression that touch range spells were eligible for Persist Spell. Persist Spell allows for spells with fixed or personal range, so I should assume that touch spells would be eligible.
#10 thorian Apr 17, 2008 15:49:43	Persist Spell allows for spells with fixed or personal range, so I should assume that touch spells would be eligible. They aren't. Personal means range personal, and fixed means a fixed distance like a 30' emanation or something similar.
#11 ratpick Apr 17, 2008 16:35:08	They aren't. Personal means range personal, and fixed means a fixed distance like a 30' emanation or something similar. So, yet another misinterpretation on my part. Thanks for clearing that up.
#12 kuroimaken Apr 18, 2008 16:06:27	They aren't. Personal means range personal, and fixed means a fixed distance like a 30' emanation or something similar. An instrument with a continuous Animate Instrument effect is still viable, though. And not really THAT expensive for its effects.