Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 reality_czech Mar 23, 2008 17:38:40	Hey all- I've gotten into a new campaign with a semi-restrictive GM, but due to the lack of games in the area I'm looking to give him a try. I'm looking to create a halfling character based on throwing and (if possible) precision damage. Rogues are the favored class, so I'm probably going to shoot for rogue and one other class (Scout?) or a PrC. Unfortunately I'm unfamiliar with rogues and their ilk in general and was hoping you guys could provide some pointers. I'm sorry if this post isn't up to posting guideline standards, but I'm sort of at a loss. Even a link to a handbook would be better than nothing. Appologies in adance for the lack of proposed build, but I'm sort of at a loss for where to start and we're playing on Friday. Basics... Show My DM would prefer we stick to base classes but will let us use others if we familiarize him. Cross-class penalties are in effect, which I would prefer avoiding (I was thinking rouge/scout?) and has given us stats to locate where we wish (18 16 14 14 10 10).
#2 jameswilliamogle Mar 23, 2008 18:00:52	I'd aim for Rogue 3 / Ranger 2, then add more Rogue, and add a couple levels of Fighter. This would be my feat selection (all PHB): TWF, iTWF, Quickdraw (absolutely necessary), Rapid Shot (from Ranger), Weapon Finesse (to make you somewhat useful when you eventually get in melee) Forget Shot on the Run: if you need to, you can just shoot then move. You never should have to move and run at the same time. If you are going to add Scout levels, try to get Manyshot, and use shortbow instead. Shot on the Run can't be used with Manyshot, so forget it. Also, low movement races aren't good for Scouts. ******* On another note, daggers are ok, but don't forget acid flasks: touch attacks, and they still get sneak attack damage. With the build above, you'll get around 7 attacks per round, all touch attacks, and all with sneak attack (potentially). You won't be hitting anything without some serious dex bonuses w/ those off-hand attacks. ********* Other feats to look into: Neraph Throw (Planar Handbook) Power Throw (Complete Adventurer) Woodland Archery (Races of the Wild) Other stuff to look into: Dungeonscape alternate class features for Rogue (and Trap Sensitivity) Complete Scoundrel Skill Tricks Wilderness Rogue (UArcana, for more of a Scout "feel") Good luck!
#3 zendu Mar 23, 2008 19:16:07	Id look at bloodstorm blade (probably a no) master thrower (plus invisible blade) and whisper knife. The halfling sub level might work you for you as well. perhaps exotic weapons master to negate AoO?
#4 reality_czech Mar 23, 2008 19:24:59	I'd aim for Rogue 3 / Ranger 2, then add more Rogue, and add a couple levels of Fighter. I'm trying to avoid Multiclass exp penalty, and 2-4 levels of fighter is all I'd be able to stomach. I like the 2-3 feats I'd get, since this is a feat-intensive idea, but 3 classes is going to put a hurting on me with the Exp penalty I think. The only way I could avoid the 20% penalty is to shoot for Rogue 7/Ranger 7/Fighter 6 (popping 1 of 3 classes every time I level) at level 20 and that'd make me a sad panda. This would be my feat selection (all PHB): TWF, iTWF, Quickdraw (absolutely necessary), Rapid Shot (from Ranger), Weapon Finesse (to make you somewhat useful when you eventually get in melee) Forget Shot on the Run: if you need to, you can just shoot then move. You never should have to move and run at the same time. Solid advice, thanks. If you are going to add Scout levels, try to get Manyshot, and use shortbow instead. Shot on the Run can't be used with Manyshot, so forget it. Also, low movement races aren't good for Scouts. I'm pretty much dead set on halfling and thrown weapons, suboptimal or no. ******* On another note, daggers are ok, but don't forget acid flasks: touch attacks, and they still get sneak attack damage. With the build above, you'll get around 7 attacks per round, all touch attacks, and all with sneak attack (potentially). You won't be hitting anything without some serious dex bonuses w/ those off-hand attacks. ********* I'll look into acid flasks, but I'm getting the feeling from the DM we're not going to be exactly showered with gold, so I'm looking for as much self-sufficiency as possible. Other feats to look into: Neraph Throw (Planar Handbook) Power Throw (Complete Adventurer) Woodland Archery (Races of the Wild) Other stuff to look into: Dungeonscape alternate class features for Rogue (and Trap Sensitivity) Complete Scoundrel Skill Tricks Wilderness Rogue (UArcana, for more of a Scout "feel") Good luck! I'll look at all of the above, thanks for the input. I'll try to hash out a more coherent build conecpt for you guys as I can.
#5 jameswilliamogle Mar 23, 2008 19:42:15	If you do this: Halfling Rogue 16 / Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 In any order, you will not have XP penalties. XP penalties don't apply to the favored class (Rogue for Halflings), and you don't suffer XP penalties if any other class is within one level of itself (Ranger 2 then Fighter 1 is within 1 level, so no penalty). When you hit Rogue 10, take the Str draining special ability, and look into the feat Staggering Strike from CAdv when you can qualify. Actually, just try to get CScoundrel and CAdv allowed. They're invaluable for Rogues, in general.
#6 operation_shoestring Mar 23, 2008 20:39:53	If you do this: Halfling Rogue 16 / Ranger 2 / Fighter 2 In any order, you will not have XP penalties. XP penalties don't apply to the favored class (Rogue for Halflings), and you don't suffer XP penalties if any other class is within one level of itself (Ranger 2 then Fighter 1 is within 1 level, so no penalty). When you hit Rogue 10, take the Str draining special ability, and look into the feat Staggering Strike from CAdv when you can qualify. Actually, just try to get CScoundrel and CAdv allowed. They're invaluable for Rogues, in general. Ranger is nice for track and rapid shot, but also consider Swashbuckler2 to replace either ranger or fighter. Ranger: Track and Rapid Shot or TWF (2 feats) 2d8 hitdie, 12 skilpoints Swashbuckler: Spend a feat on Daring outlaw, get weapon finesse (net 0 feats) +2 grace to reflex save (meh) or 2 arcane stunts (very nice) +1 Sneak Attack die, +3 dodge bonus 2d10hitdie, 8 skillpoints Fighter 2 feats 2d10 hitdie, 4 skillpoints
#7 jameswilliamogle Mar 23, 2008 20:48:28	Ranger is nice for track and rapid shot, but also consider Swashbuckler2 to replace either ranger or fighter. Ranger: Track and Rapid Shot or TWF (2 feats) 2d8 hitdie, 12 skilpoints Swashbuckler: Spend a feat on Daring outlaw, get weapon finesse (net 0 feats) +2 grace to reflex save (meh) or 2 arcane stunts (very nice) +1 Sneak Attack die, +3 dodge bonus 2d10hitdie, 8 skillpoints Fighter 2 feats 2d10 hitdie, 4 skillpoints Notice the OP is trying to stick as close to core as possible. I know these kinds of DMs: you don't need to keep it simple, but you want to minimize the books you use.
#8 swiftblu Mar 23, 2008 20:58:27	If you go the Rogue/Scout route, you could use the Swift Ambusher feat from Complete Scoundrel. It lets your rogue and scout levels stack for Skirmish (but not Sneak Attack).
#9 ceramicweasel Mar 24, 2008 1:53:01	Take a look at these threads if you haven't already: TWF SA Invisible Blade / Master Thrower Machine Gun Rogue Some sort of combination using Rogue, Master Thrower, Invisible Blade or Whisper Knife is probably your best bet. If you like the Scout idea though, you may be able to find some helpful information in The Scout's Handbook
#10 green_eyes Mar 24, 2008 5:57:38	Halfling rogue sub levels are from Races of The Wild. Whisperknife PrC is in the same book and fits your thrower description just fine.
#11 NiteCyper Mar 24, 2008 6:23:49	Take a look at these threads if you haven't already: TWF SA Invisible Blade / Master Thrower Machine Gun Rogue Some sort of combination using Rogue, Master Thrower, Invisible Blade or Whisper Knife is probably your best bet. If you like the Scout idea though, you may be able to find some helpful information in The Scout's Handbook I think I go on a bit about ranged Rogues in my Stealth Handmanual.