Buddy of mine is starting a new campaign and it is always the pleasure of the PC's to completely OP our characters so much that we break the game and 'win'. He is for the first time opening the game to all 3.5 books with the wizards trademark rather than just core books and I am not familiar with psionics or any of the other books. He is going to have an Ebberon setting with low magic (only minor wonderous items availabe for sale) and I had a few ideas for classes.PS. We are starting at level 3 but should have a fast level progression, maybe a level a session.
1) Artificier so that I can build my own magical items, DM also said he was going to cut magic construction time. Any recommendations on a path to artificer??
2) A mounted class with a lance, with the correct feats he will always have a 3x multiplier for normal hits and 5x for charging.
3) Wondering if explosives are very powerful since our settings have never allowed explosives and if there are any classes utilizing them??
4) Any other classes that seem extremely powerful that I could ruin his campaign with???
Try a Monster class.
Some of them are redicolously strong at low levels and can advance into awesomeness
For example, an Air elemental. It can ruin even the best thought out Adventure through his ability to fly 100 ft(!) a round.
If you really want to breake everything, I could show you a concept I made which could make you almost immortal by level 15 (I know, it's a bit high but, hey, why not?)
Anyways, there are also some nice Antromorphic animals in Savage Species...
Would you like to ruin the campaign for the DM only or for the whole Party?
Just the DM might be ok but you should at least team up with the other players or at least ensure they have fun...
Druid 5/ Planar Shepard 10/ X 5
Yeah the entire party is going to be OPing so that we can ruin the campaign, so it is important we find enough classes/races.
Seriously though, what kind of character are you going for or do you just want to break the game?
Go human cloistered cleric + Contemplative + Sovereign Speaker
Get Worldly Focus as your first feat and invest in Knowledge religion up to level 5.
Because having 13 Domains at your disposal is always a good thing.
Well like I said, it is going to be for an entire party, so we are looking for a great deal of classes. For our campaigns as of now, our main way of dealing damage was using a flachion 2 handed with power attack (10 dmg +1.5x str mod) and extending its crit range to 15-20 and dealing 50 damage a hit. But now that so many books are open that we are not familiar with, I was just wondering about new exploitations to take advantage of.
One of my favourite chargers is the Ranger 2/ Fighter 2/ Barbarian 1/ Revenant Blade 5/ Frenzied Berserker 10
Makes use of a double scimitar, power attack goodness, full attack after a charge and glorious amounts of damage.
One that I like is Warlock 4/ Binder 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3. Divine Power +8d6 Eldritch Blast +6d6 Hellfire +Eldritch Glaive is really quite nice.
Since this is a low magic campaign, make a Monk with Vow of Poverty. That alone should ruin the game.
Since this is a low magic campaign, make a Monk Druid with Vow of Poverty. That alone should ruin the game.
FTFY. Monk's don't ruin anything, but their player's dreams...
It's not that monks are bad...they're just not good. =]
If your aim is to "break the game", I would go with a full caster (cleric, druid, or wizard). Take some PrC like the ones mentioned before and get full benefits from multiple feats scattered across the books (I would check Complete Divine, Complete Arcane, Complete Warrior, Exalted Deeds, and Spell Compendium). Those books alone should be able to provide with plenty of powerfuil builds, feats, and spells if you want to make an unstoppable PC. And again, go with full caster progression. In 3.5, nothing breaks a game down faster than a caster.
I can't remember the build, but if you *really* want to bust up a game, just take the "Cheater of Mystra" build (should be findable via forum search).
The crux of the build is At-Will Miracle. Nothing says OP like using Miracle to warm up your coffee...
It's not that monks are bad...they're just not good. =]
I disagree.
In a low-magic campaign, I would heavily suggest a monk when using VoP (or the druid but only when using the Druid alternate ability from UA)
In a low-magic campaign, I would heavily suggest a monk when using VoP (or the druid but only when using the Druid alternate ability from UA)
Why? Oh why pray tell? The shapeshift druid completely sucks balls compared to the normal one. And druid is one of the few classes that can actually do just fine with VoP. Their holy symbol is a piece of plant, so they can still cast spells, and they have enough class abilities and spells to shore up the weaknesses of VoP while still benefitting from it.
And yes, monks really do stink. Whether you believe it or not has nothing to do with it, just like believing the Earth is flat doesn't make it so. They are more dependent on magic items than many other classes, actually. They can't fly, they can't cast spells, etc. A monk with VoP just sits on the ground and dies when a flying archer shows up, unless his friends are merciful enough to save his gimpy ass.
In a low-magic campaign, I would heavily suggest a monk when using VoP (or the druid but only when using the Druid alternate ability from UA)
Why? Oh why pray tell? The shapeshift druid completely sucks balls compared to the normal one. And druid is one of the few classes that can actually do just fine with VoP. Their holy symbol is a piece of plant, so they can still cast spells, and they have enough class abilities and spells to shore up the weaknesses of VoP while still benefitting from it.And yes, monks really do stink. Whether you believe it or not has nothing to do with it, just like believing the Earth is flat doesn't make it so. They are more dependent on magic items than many other classes, actually. They can't fly, they can't cast spells, etc. A monk with VoP just sits on the ground and dies when a flying archer shows up, unless his friends are merciful enough to save his gimpy ass.
Agreed. Monks simply aren't good. If you were in a very low level game, then a VoP Monk is decent at best, but the moment flight, or something he can't grapple or stun comes into play, the monk looses.
That's not saying you can't make a good monk. It's quite easy to make a decent monk, however, it's too easy to beat them with other combinations. On a power level comparison, monks are close to the bottom with potential.
...???
First of all, I meant the Monk/Druid combination from Unearthed Arcana, not the Shapeshift Druid from PHBII.
And for the latter part, most of the classes have problems with flying without Magic Items. To be precise, out of the 29 classes I know, only 7 are able to get flight without much effort. You could as well say that over 50 % of all classes suck because they have no flight.
A flying archer is a poor example because of the Monk's option to take Deflect arrows at 2nd level. You can deflect the first and the ones after that one do barely even hit. When the said archer shows up, the monk could simply walk straight away without being hit once.
And just think about this: What would a Druid with VoP do against a flying Archer at level 3?
About the magic items... they need even less than a wizard in many cases. At least the wizards I know.
I don't want to say monks are the best classes aviable, but the definiteley do not suck.
First of all, I meant the Monk/Druid combination from Unearthed Arcana, not the Shapeshift Druid from PHBII.
That sucks even more than the shapeshift variant...
And for the latter part, most of the classes have problems with flying without Magic Items. To be precise, out of the 29 classes I know, only 7 are able to get flight without much effort. You could as well say that over 50 % of all classes suck because they have no flight.
If they take VoP, and don't have racial flight or at least decent ranged attacks, then yes I'd say that they suck (with VoP).
A flying archer is a poor example because of the Monk's option to take Deflect arrows at 2nd level. You can deflect the first and the ones after that one do barely even hit. When the said archer shows up, the monk could simply walk straight away without being hit once.
Rapid Shot says no. And pretty much everyone I'd call an archer has it.
And just think about this: What would a Druid with VoP do against a flying Archer at level 3?
How about... Summon a hippogriff? Spontaneously.
www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonNaturesA...
About the magic items... they need even less than a wizard in many cases. At least the wizards I know.I don't want to say monks are the best classes aviable, but the definiteley do not suck.
They can be optimized, but not with VoP and lacking racial flight.
And... I actually like playing unarmed combatants, and I usually take at least a few monk levels on them. I'm well aware of their weaknesses.
Rapid Shot says no. And pretty much everyone I'd call an archer has it.
And an AC of like, 27 says yes. 1st one deflected, 2nd one simply misses.
How about... Summon a hippogriff? Spontaneously.
...for an awesome 3 rounds while just getting shot over and over. Nice.
They can be optimized, but not with VoP and lacking racial flight.
Did you realize that campaigns often are played inside of dungeons or buildings or other mostly cramped rooms?
Monks can be very well optimized without equipment.
And... I actually like playing unarmed combatants, and I usually take at least a few monk levels on them. I'm well aware of their weaknesses.
Hmm, then why doesn't it sound like that? Monk is not a good class for dips. If you want to play a Monk, play it from the beginning until the very end.
Even if you have an AC of 27 at level 3, that hardly makes you invulnerable. You probably have to go total defense to get that, which means you're only taking one move action per round and not doing anything else. It's going to take you a long time to get out of range of the archer. In the meantime, you're getting constantly pelted and eventually you'll just die from lucky shots. If you run, you can't go total defense and you lose your Dex mod to AC, so he is definitely hitting you at least part of the time if he is worth a crap. And you have level 3 hit points and no way to heal yourself. So you lose any wars of attrition.
Of course, that all assumes some kind of solo battle, which is not the norm in D&D. In a real game, an intelligent flying archer will just kill your party mates and ignore you while you stand around and be useless. Having a high AC and no ranged threat just means that you are the weak link in the party, get ignored by intelligent enemies, and die last.
Yes 3 rounds is plenty for most combats. How often do combats last more than 3 rounds? Especially at the lower levels? It is certainly plenty of time for a diving hippogriff to WTFPWN a smarmy flying archer. And he isn't going to be firing while the hippogriff is in his face, unless he wants to take attacks of opportunity from it. He is also unlikely to be faster than its 100' speed. On a diving charge, the hippogriff has an attack with +9 to hit and 2d4+12 damage. That will one-shot a lot of things you'll be facing at level 3 that can fly and fire a bow. And the druid can summon more than one of them, if he wants. AND he probably took Augmented Summoning as his 3rd level feat, so his hippogriffs are even more uber than that.
And no, I don't often play in campaigns that take place inside dungeons. I don't particularly like dungeon crawls, and neither do most DMs I play with. I'd say in my 20+ years of gaming the combats I've been in that took place outdoors outnumber those that took place underground 10 to 1.
And the monk class is 1, 2, or 6 levels long.
The OP asked for a POWERFUL class. The druid is a powerful class. The monk is not.
Now... I'm not going to waste any more of my time arguing with you. Learn or continue to be a fool. I don't really care.
Bah, whatever...
I'll stick with my first suggestion of taking a monster class.
If you, for example, choose to play an Air elemental, you will get 3 bonus feats, +6 Dex, +2 Con (and -4 Int), a fly speed of 100ft (perfect), 3d8 hitpoints, +4 AC (+3 natural, +1 size) and the Whirlwind special Attack which could prove helpful. The major drawback of this is that you cannot choose your class progression until level 15 but I doupt you will play such a long time if you want to ruin the campaign.
I know there are better Monster classes out there but there are few with such a good flight ability.
We've tossed out numerous ideas; hope there was something in the midst of all of it that there was something interesting for you =]
We've tossed out numerous ideas; hope there was something in the midst of all of it that there was something interesting for you =]
Amen!
First of all, I meant the Monk/Druid combination from Unearthed Arcana, not the Shapeshift Druid from PHBII.
And just think about this: What would a Druid with VoP do against a flying Archer at level 3?
About the magic items... they need even less than a wizard in many cases. At least the wizards I know.
I don't want to say monks are the best classes aviable, but the definiteley do not suck.
1.) Much as I find the UA variant is cool, when I went to go make a VoP Druid and looked at exactly what I was giving up for those monk and ranger benefits...sadly it just can't compare. Maybe if you stick to summoning and battlefield control spells and staying back it works out alright. But don't think for a second you can fight for crap with those monk benefits and your natural str score and size medium weapon + medium BAB. Wildshaped, you have str in the 20s and 30s, eventually larger size, and lots of attack options like pounce and improved grab. Not to mention the non-combat utility benefits...
2.) At level 3? Cast Master Air, from Spell compendium. level 2 spell, round/level, fly 60 good, I believe. If you can't dispatch or entangle the archer in 3 rounds...you're just having a bad day. I really have to agree, for VoP, after a certain point (usually about level 10-12, IME) you just NEED the ability to fly, at least on occasion. Without it, too many fights become hopeless for you. I can't really recommend VoP to any non-caster unless he has an ally to buff him with spells.
3.) Wizards don't need many magic items, they're just nice to have. Monk needs more stat boosters than anyone, pays more for +x weapons (or needs shortcuts like Greater Magic Weapon each day), as well as all the standard Fighter stuff like larger size, armor (in bracer form), resistance to saves, etc... With his BAB and HD, he tends to need more items to boost health and attack compared to fighter, too. Monks are incredibly item-dependant, though not TOO much more than other non-casters. Non-casters just are very dependant. Casters like metamagic rods, scrolls, casting ability boosts, etc... but in a game without them, they're losing far less, especially for the things their spells can replace.
Monks don't have to suck, and I really like playing martial artists, particularly over-the-top special effects ones liek the monk. But they ARE one of the weakest classes in the game. You can still optimize the heck out of them and get a strong PC, but it's more work than say...a cleric.
you do realize that most of the char-op links in campaign smashers do not work anymore corret?
they just go to the main forums page
@Phaed: Aleris could be right in this case because the OP is in a low magic game. A low magic game could mean many different things.
@Aleris: Phaed could be right depending what low magic means in the OP's game. And the 20th level Monk isn't nearly as good as a 20th level Druid. That however does not mean that they suck.
Edit: Fixed
That doesn't mean they suck, but despite that they do indeed suck for reasons unrelated to the immense power of the Druid.
@Phaed: Aleris could be right in this case because the OP is in a low magic game. A low magic game could mean many different things.
Unless casting classes are banned or extremely heavily nerfed (which wasn't mentioned), "low magic" just means that they are even more superior to the non-casters than they are in "normal" games.
From my experience, every instance of "low magic" refers to the accessability of magic items, not the capability of spell casters. That being said, Phaed is correct again by stating casters are even MORE powerful than non casters.
Ebberon setting with low magic
???... Isnt that an Oxymoron? How does he explain the Flying Ships/artificers/warforged/friggin 50% of the gaming world. Just curious.
Back on subject... If its low Magic... Go Mage. If you cant buy magic to beat a wizard he will win every time...... every time.
Wiz5/Incantrix10/Arch Mage5... you win.