Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 noheat Aug 06, 2009 16:50:40	Hi, I'm thumbing through the books right after I post this, but I was hoping to get some feed back from the masters. What are some of the best ways to lower a targets saves and/or spell resistance. My party is about to face a overwhelming encounter and I know that the BBEG has saves that are pretty much out of reach and an SR that will be hard to bypass also and I was trying get some ideas on ways to get by that besides using spells with no save/no SR. Thanks ahead of time for any help and now I'll hit the books and see what kind of stuff I find...
#2 dr_rocktopus Aug 06, 2009 17:03:20	I like pronouncement of fate, heroes of horror + tome-bound eye of boccob, MiC. Knocks the stuffing out of them and makes a great opening gesture. Chain that into stuff like boomerang daze on your BSF that pushes really hugely painful saves.... I've seen boomerang daze ask for a DC 60 fortitude save. Over. And Over. And Over.
#3 imperialspectre Aug 06, 2009 20:23:42	Assay Spell Resistance, from Spell Compendium, is also handy. Since it's a swift action, you can have your cleric cast it right before the Pronouncement of Fate. Once you've got those in play, follow it up with a Mind Fog. Since the target is already taking a penalty to saves, it'll be harder for him/her to make the Will save vs. Mind Fog. If the Mind Fog connects, the BBEG will probably not be making any Will saves afterward and you can use easy stuff from there on out. What's the party level? Can't give much more specific advice without knowing what resources you have. Also, what do you know about the BBEG?
#4 gilfalas_elaandrin Aug 06, 2009 20:29:52	Have whoever in your party is Charisma based take a level of Marshal for the lesser aura 'Motivated Casters', assuming that is possible. Adding your Cha bonus to all SR check in a large area around you (and on yours as well) is a great way to blow out SR. And Assay SR should be a staple in any casters book as posted previously. It is an automatic +10 on SR checks on one target till it is essentially dead and since it is a divination that affects YOU it cannot be dispelled off the enemy and it has no SR or Save against it.
#5 noheat Aug 06, 2009 23:02:54	What's the party level? Can't give much more specific advice without knowing what resources you have. Also, what do you know about the BBEG? My bad our average party level is 19 and the BBEG is CR22 with 4 CR18s with him. (Room EL of 26) The adventure is downloadable from the wizards site (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/duad/20071221) called Essence of Evil and it's the final room. The party make up right now is a 19th level Warblade/Binder guy that we joke is as good as a caravan guard. He also has a 16th level druid cohort. A 20th level rogue/inv. blade/thief acrobat girl that is pretty decent, but I think will be useless in this fight. A 18th level dread necromancer that has been really effective so far and he has a 17th level monk/ur-priest/unsacred fist cohort. And last is my a Cloistered Cleric 4/Warlock 1/Hellfire Warlock 3/Eldritch Disciple 10. We worked together pretty good, but I think this last battle is going to be a TPK.
#6 gilfalas_elaandrin Aug 07, 2009 12:16:22	Does your warlock have penetrating Blast? It gives you a + to defeat their SR built in and forces a save or they get a one minute SR debuff as well. Also, try using Greater Curse. A permanenet spell that can reduce one of their attributes to 1 give hefty minus' to all saves is not that bad. SR is usually easy to get past at that level. It is the Saves that will get you.
#7 noheat Aug 07, 2009 13:00:43	No I didn't take penetrating blast. I went with Vitrolic Blast and Chilling Tentacles. And I have to agree with you about the SR vs. saves thing. I think our casters can get through that SR, but its saves are Fort 40, Refl 28, and Will 38. I think our Dread Necro has the best DC's and his 8th level spell dc's are 30. (I can't remember if he has 9th lvl spells.) Well, we meet tonight and I think it will end quickly. I'm up next to GM this group so I better get my material ready. Maybe I'll post the results of our battle next week.
#8 gilfalas_elaandrin Aug 07, 2009 13:24:36	No I didn't take penetrating blast. I went with Vitrolic Blast and Chilling Tentacles. And I have to agree with you about the SR vs. saves thing. I think our casters can get through that SR, but its saves are Fort 40, Refl 28, and Will 38. I think our Dread Necro has the best DC's and his 8th level spell dc's are 30. (I can't remember if he has 9th lvl spells.) Well, we meet tonight and I think it will end quickly. I'm up next to GM this group so I better get my material ready. Maybe I'll post the results of our battle next week. Yup. With saves like those your pretty much hoping for natural 1's on Save or Die or Save or Suck (and if your looking for 1's you may as well use just save or die). In that situation pure damage is usually your best bet since nothing you cast is gonna make it past his saves even if you can get past his SR. Try lots of dispells to remove their buffs and hit them with conjuration spells that ignore SR and Saves. In situations where the enemy is esentially impervious to your magic offenses, use your magic to buff/defend the party and dispel the enemy. Also try to use Mark of Doom, PHB2, 119, it has no save and ignores SR and it gives the target 1D6 damage every time he attacks or casts a spell or uses an ability to harm someone else. Lasts an entire fight too. It aint much (1d6) but depending on the enemy it can tear them up and keep them thinking about whether they want to take Aoo's or not. On a two weapon fighting enemy it can be rather nasty. Also look into trying a maximised Bolt of Glory (SC) or two if your enemies are Evil Outsiders or Undead. 180 untyped damage on a ranged touch attack is rather nice (assuming your divine caster is CL 15+).