Lurk/Chameleon, just a thought - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Lurk/Chameleon, just a thought

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
true_shinken
Feb 19, 2009 6:30:23 I always liked Metamorphic Transfer and wanted to use it ASAP on a build, but casting Alter Self like once a day with Practiced Spellcaster on a build like Wizard 1/Psion 5 was not my kind of thing.

Then I thought about the Chameleon, that gets 2nd level spells at level 1. A Lurk 5/Chameleon 1 gets Alter Self and Metamorphic Transfer at ECL 6. I know the Lurk is usually considered a pretty meh class, but I wanted to know your thoughts on this. Alter Self for other humanoids is also not that funky, you'd need full Polymorph for good effect.
Otherwordly feat could help. Any other way for a human to change his type while still being a human and not getting any LA?

Is this idea any good? Is there any way to improve it?

Thanks a lot in advance, CO.
#2
awaken_D_M_golem
Feb 19, 2009 14:33:03 Idea good? YES good idea!

Metamorphic Transfer feat works with whatever causes the shape to change. Just needs that 5 ML.
It can get that with say Psi-class 1 and Practised Manifester feat. Any Psi class.
Of course helping out the poor little Lurk, is a good idea too.
Outsider or Aberration is a better choice. Way more options.
Buoman or the cheapy (dang I'm blanking on it) demon or angel crossed blah blah ... can you read my mind on this?!
Synad or Elans on that side.

I never checked out the Chameleon, so I can't help there.
#3
true_shinken
Feb 19, 2009 15:10:42 Tiefling and aasimar, you mean?

Chameleon is, sadly, a human-only class - one that gets 2nd level spells from any arcane list at level ONE. Problem is, even with Chameleon you only get the most of Alter Self at level 2 (taking Practiced Spellcaster with your bonus feat) or level 3 (your CL is 6). I think the synergy is huge - Lurk even has the required skills as class skills.
#4
hogarth
Feb 19, 2009 15:39:00 Like DM Golem said, there are easier ways of getting "Manifester level 5" then 5 levels of Lurk (Practiced Manifester, or even a race with a suitable psi-like ability like a duergar).

A character I tried was an elan cleric 1/psion (egoist) 5 with the Magic domain; she used a wand/scrolls of Alter Self until she could manifest Metamorphosis properly.
#5
jameswilliamogle
Feb 19, 2009 15:44:44 You could do it with the Mountebank class in Complete Scoundrel, too, but your Chameleon option will be way stronger...

...but the Mountebank makes more sense to me.

Anything that grants outsider type... lets see...
Lurk 2 / Binder 3 / Knight of Sacred Seal 5 / Chameleon 2 / anything 8? Can you use Practiced Manifestor for the Metamorphic Transfer? Its been too long since I looked at psionics...
#6
phaedrusxy
Feb 19, 2009 16:03:52 Psion 1/Wizard 5 with Practiced Manifester (Psion). :P Pick Vigor as one of your powers known, and that psion level might actually be useful.
#7
hogarth
Feb 19, 2009 16:07:40
Psion 1/Wizard 5 with Practiced Manifester (Psion). :P Pick Vigor as one of your powers known, and that psion level might actually be useful.

Almost...if you're going to pick just one level in a psionic class, you might as well take Erudite instead of Psion (free Psicrystal Affinity feat + more level 1 powers known).
#8
phaedrusxy
Feb 19, 2009 17:22:50
Almost...if you're going to pick just one level in a psionic class, you might as well take Erudite instead of Psion (free Psicrystal Affinity feat + more level 1 powers known).

Or take two, and go with Ardent, then go into Cerebremancer.

Wiz 1/Ardent 2/Cerebremancer with Precocious Apprentice (Alter Self) and Practiced Manifester. :D
#9
awaken_D_M_golem
Feb 20, 2009 15:30:03
I shot the Lu-urk . . . (sheriff)

But I did not shoot the Chameleon. . . . (deputy)

Oh no ... Oh

hmm ... Pao the Human into an Outsider Human , should be possible.

Practiced Manifester feat boosts ML to ML+4 , limited by HD.
Commoner 4 / Psion 1 with PM has an ML of 5 , which could qualify it for Metamorphic Transfer.
#10
true_shinken
Feb 21, 2009 14:07:01 Yes, I know Practiced Manifester qualifies Psionic Class 1/XXX 4 for Metamorphic Transfer. Thing is Lurk is a very good option for Psionic Class 1, having the skills needed for Chameleon. I thought on a few things aside Lurk to increase versatility, like for example Warblade, but lurk augments seemed fun, the player enjoyed it and I went with it. Human Lurk 5/Chameleon 1 is a go, with Able Learner, Otherwordly, Speed of Thought and Practiced Spellcaster (Chameleon) and using the floating feat from the next chameleon level for metamorphic transfer.

Any more tricks you think this could do?
#11
awaken_D_M_golem
Feb 21, 2009 15:33:10 { ... I may have been responding to JamesWillie , about the PM feat ... }

Other ideas
Bloodline 3 would bump the Lurk Augment access up and uses # ,as does the Lurk Master feat by +2.
The bloodline "should" help the Chameleon too ... but ...
the class ability is (ex) and isn't actual Spell Casting Progression, rather it's ... umm ... something else !!

Any Chameleon knowledgeables know what a Bloodline would do to Aptitude Focus (ex) ??
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1

I think it was DisposableHero_ that did a Chameleon with crazyness to get 9th level Arcane + Divine casting, but that's been WSoD, boo.

Spell Focus X feat and Ardent 2 and Psiotheurgist feat (School X / Discipline X' linked)
after Chameleon would get you the ML + CL for that school/discipline.
That'd allow progression to 9th level psionics just in one s/d.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 true_shinken Feb 19, 2009 6:30:23	I always liked Metamorphic Transfer and wanted to use it ASAP on a build, but casting Alter Self like once a day with Practiced Spellcaster on a build like Wizard 1/Psion 5 was not my kind of thing. Then I thought about the Chameleon, that gets 2nd level spells at level 1. A Lurk 5/Chameleon 1 gets Alter Self and Metamorphic Transfer at ECL 6. I know the Lurk is usually considered a pretty meh class, but I wanted to know your thoughts on this. Alter Self for other humanoids is also not that funky, you'd need full Polymorph for good effect. Otherwordly feat could help. Any other way for a human to change his type while still being a human and not getting any LA? Is this idea any good? Is there any way to improve it? Thanks a lot in advance, CO.
#2 awaken_D_M_golem Feb 19, 2009 14:33:03	Idea good? YES good idea! Metamorphic Transfer feat works with whatever causes the shape to change. Just needs that 5 ML. It can get that with say Psi-class 1 and Practised Manifester feat. Any Psi class. Of course helping out the poor little Lurk, is a good idea too. Outsider or Aberration is a better choice. Way more options. Buoman or the cheapy (dang I'm blanking on it) demon or angel crossed blah blah ... can you read my mind on this?! Synad or Elans on that side. I never checked out the Chameleon, so I can't help there.
#3 true_shinken Feb 19, 2009 15:10:42	Tiefling and aasimar, you mean? Chameleon is, sadly, a human-only class - one that gets 2nd level spells from any arcane list at level ONE. Problem is, even with Chameleon you only get the most of Alter Self at level 2 (taking Practiced Spellcaster with your bonus feat) or level 3 (your CL is 6). I think the synergy is huge - Lurk even has the required skills as class skills.
#4 hogarth Feb 19, 2009 15:39:00	Like DM Golem said, there are easier ways of getting "Manifester level 5" then 5 levels of Lurk (Practiced Manifester, or even a race with a suitable psi-like ability like a duergar). A character I tried was an elan cleric 1/psion (egoist) 5 with the Magic domain; she used a wand/scrolls of Alter Self until she could manifest Metamorphosis properly.
#5 jameswilliamogle Feb 19, 2009 15:44:44	You could do it with the Mountebank class in Complete Scoundrel, too, but your Chameleon option will be way stronger... ...but the Mountebank makes more sense to me. Anything that grants outsider type... lets see... Lurk 2 / Binder 3 / Knight of Sacred Seal 5 / Chameleon 2 / anything 8? Can you use Practiced Manifestor for the Metamorphic Transfer? Its been too long since I looked at psionics...
#6 phaedrusxy Feb 19, 2009 16:03:52	Psion 1/Wizard 5 with Practiced Manifester (Psion). :P Pick Vigor as one of your powers known, and that psion level might actually be useful.
#7 hogarth Feb 19, 2009 16:07:40	Psion 1/Wizard 5 with Practiced Manifester (Psion). :P Pick Vigor as one of your powers known, and that psion level might actually be useful. Almost...if you're going to pick just one level in a psionic class, you might as well take Erudite instead of Psion (free Psicrystal Affinity feat + more level 1 powers known).
#8 phaedrusxy Feb 19, 2009 17:22:50	Almost...if you're going to pick just one level in a psionic class, you might as well take Erudite instead of Psion (free Psicrystal Affinity feat + more level 1 powers known). Or take two, and go with Ardent, then go into Cerebremancer. Wiz 1/Ardent 2/Cerebremancer with Precocious Apprentice (Alter Self) and Practiced Manifester. :D
#9 awaken_D_M_golem Feb 20, 2009 15:30:03	I shot the Lu-urk . . . (sheriff) But I did not shoot the Chameleon. . . . (deputy) Oh no ... Oh hmm ... Pao the Human into an Outsider Human , should be possible. Practiced Manifester feat boosts ML to ML+4 , limited by HD. Commoner 4 / Psion 1 with PM has an ML of 5 , which could qualify it for Metamorphic Transfer.
#10 true_shinken Feb 21, 2009 14:07:01	Yes, I know Practiced Manifester qualifies Psionic Class 1/XXX 4 for Metamorphic Transfer. Thing is Lurk is a very good option for Psionic Class 1, having the skills needed for Chameleon. I thought on a few things aside Lurk to increase versatility, like for example Warblade, but lurk augments seemed fun, the player enjoyed it and I went with it. Human Lurk 5/Chameleon 1 is a go, with Able Learner, Otherwordly, Speed of Thought and Practiced Spellcaster (Chameleon) and using the floating feat from the next chameleon level for metamorphic transfer. Any more tricks you think this could do?
#11 awaken_D_M_golem Feb 21, 2009 15:33:10	{ ... I may have been responding to JamesWillie , about the PM feat ... } Other ideas Bloodline 3 would bump the Lurk Augment access up and uses # ,as does the Lurk Master feat by +2. The bloodline "should" help the Chameleon too ... but ... the class ability is (ex) and isn't actual Spell Casting Progression, rather it's ... umm ... something else !! Any Chameleon knowledgeables know what a Bloodline would do to Aptitude Focus (ex) ?? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041210b&page=1 I think it was DisposableHero_ that did a Chameleon with crazyness to get 9th level Arcane + Divine casting, but that's been WSoD, boo. Spell Focus X feat and Ardent 2 and Psiotheurgist feat (School X / Discipline X' linked) after Chameleon would get you the ML + CL for that school/discipline. That'd allow progression to 9th level psionics just in one s/d.