Lvl 2 Dragonblood Gish Hardcore Optimization

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

ancientdragon

Nov 23, 2009 10:11:44
Hi everyone!
It has been a long time =)
Today I'm here to ask you advice about a Lvl 2 Aasimar I'm about to start playing.
That's really cheesy.
This is what I've come up with, and my master agrees on everything (I promised to use with care my character).
Lesser Aasimar with Dragonspawn white Template, Loredrake variant (Yes I can apply, in my case 8D).
I do have three levels of effective sorcerer casting and still an empty class level.
I was thinking about making Fighter 1, so I could then proceed to another level of fighter, than four of Battle Sorcerer from UA and qualify for Abjurant Champion, focusing then on metamagic (incantatrix & wings of flurry?). I'd take Fly-by attack, two armored mage, and go round with a mechanus gear around myself, slashing and cutting with a Big Longsword two-hand wielded.
These would be my stats, as my master cut away my +2 cha from lesser aasimar.
        STR: 20    / +5 [8 Base + 12 pt]
        DEX: 10    / +0 [8 Base + 0 pt + 2 Dragonspawn]
        CON: 16    / +3 [8 Base + 4 pt + 2 Dragonspawn]
        INT: 10 / +0 [8 Base]
        WIS: 08 / -1 [8 Base]
        CHA: 18 / +4 [8 Base + 10 pt]
How can I pimp this guy *more*?
Furthermore: is aasimar still convenient since I don't get +2 cha? Can you suggest a better race? Since i don't dislike templates, especially LA +0, i'd take another one if it would serve the cause.

Thanks in advance for any advice you'll give.
AD

P.S. 150th Post! Hurray!
#2

toryn

Nov 23, 2009 22:16:06
Maybe you could go with 2 levels of crusader or warblade instead of fighter. Backload them, that way you will have access to higher level maneuvers. (take something like Battle Sorcerer 4/Crusader 2 for example to be a 4th level initiator instead of starting with crusader or warblade)
#3

phoenix00

Nov 24, 2009 9:56:27
Please, please don't take battle sorcerer if you are going to prestige out, the extra bab and hitpoints are simply just not worth it.

Figher 1/Sorcerer 3/Eldritch Knight 2/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Eldritch Knight 8

would so kick the battle sorcerer build you are proposing.  You just need 3rd level spells for EK (and due to Loredrake and Dragon spawn you only need 3 levels of sorcerer for that) and martial weapon profiency.  EK gives you the bonus feat that fighter normally would get.  And after EK 1 all the EK levels are full spellcasting.

The above buid gets 18 spellcasting levels out of 20.  Add in loredrake and dragonspawn and we are talking 21 out of 20 spellcasting levels.
#4

ancientdragon

Nov 24, 2009 11:33:36
At a first glance, I liked the idea of adding a level of warblade or two. But after a moment I realized that my master isn't really "expert" you know. He cut off all the psionic variants cause he didn't know how psion worked, and this could be the very same thing.
don't take battle sorcerer if you are going to prestige out


This is a crapping good point man. It'd be a complete and unjustified loss of spellpower.
I examined your build. Not bad at all but for a few points. First, I don't know how long will this champaign be, but I'm pretty sure it won't last till level 20. 10, maybe 15 should be the cap, if I'm lucky.
Second: I don't get that spellsword level. Just for the channeling? It'd be 1/day and only 1st level spell, i feel pretty sure I don't want it =P
I still like it till the EK. The only problem I have with that PrC is that d6. But thanks for posting, really!
#5

phoenix00

Nov 24, 2009 12:12:16
I did spellsword instead of ek for it is full bab, full spellcasting yet has d10 hit dice and has almost no pre-reqs.  There is no reason not from a min max perspective not to take it.

Temp hitpoints are your friend with gishes.  Remember temp hitpoints from different sources stack.
#6

ancientdragon

Nov 24, 2009 16:01:28
I did spellsword instead of ek for it is full bab, full spellcasting yet has d10 hit dice and has almost no pre-reqs.  There is no reason not from a min max perspective not to take it.

Temp hitpoints are your friend with gishes.  Remember temp hitpoints from different sources stack.


Oh, sorry, I misread. That's a nice tip.
What do you suggest to get temp hitpoints?
#7

phoenix00

Nov 24, 2009 18:14:39

Temporary Hit Points


Certain effects give a character temporary hit points. When a character gains temporary hit points, note his current hit point total. When the temporary hit points go away the character’s hit points drop to his current hit point total. If the character’s hit points are below his current hit point total at that time, all the temporary hit points have already been lost and the character’s hit point total does not drop further.


When temporary hit points are lost, they cannot be restored as real hit points can be, even by magic.




www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/falseLife.htm
www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/vampiricTouch....
www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/Vigor....
#8

CantripN

Nov 26, 2009 1:24:46
First, your Point Buy is way off, unless you're using a House Rule. 8-14 costs 1 a point, 14-16 costs 2 a point, 16 to 17 is 3, and 17 to 18 is 4.

Beyond that, look at this PC of mine for tips on spells, items, levels, class features, and the like. And I'd really ask your DM for either a better spell progression for a Sorcerer, more spell known, or bonus feats as a Wizard. I got all of them, and it made my Sorcerer actually worth playing, unlike the regular kind.

Since you're not Gestalt, I've gotta tell you this: DON'T LOSE CASTER LEVELS!!!
That means Stalwart Sorcerer to get Martial Weapon Proficiency and Focus, as well as Bonus HP, is a good idea in my book, so long as it saves you from losing even a single spellcasting level on Fighter. -1 spell known of your highest level is less loss than a full spellcasting level, by far. Also, armor for a Gish isn't nearly as good as spells along with Abjurant Champion (Shield at +9, Greater Luminous Armor at +13, +22 just from 2 long-duration, Swift Action spells.).

Taliesin the Resplendant

Race: Magic-Blooded Dragonborn Spellscale
Weapon: Duom
#9

lycanthrope0

Nov 26, 2009 8:41:31


 Also, armor for a Gish isn't nearly as good as spells along with Abjurant Champion (Shield at +9, Greater Luminous Armor at +13, +22 just from 2 long-duration, Swift Action spells.).




i get the luminous armor bonus but unless i missed an errata on shield i would not get the Abj champion bonus since its not an Abjuration spell or did you mean a shield spell from another source not the players handbook. 

Just asking for you to clerifie it may also be a house rule in your game that the OP would not be able to use

but i do agree Armored gishes are kind of a thing of the past with Abj Champion unless you are going fo the whole RP reasons for it i wouldnt wear any armor either
#10

ancientdragon

Nov 26, 2009 8:58:04
I'm definitely going to get Abj Champion asap, but still I feel more protected in a full suite of armor. Especially at levels 5-7 It would be risky to rely only on shield in mage armor to get CA.
*And* it really does lot of flavor.
CantripN, what's that Martial Sorcerer class feature that you have? I assume it is not battle sorcerer so what's that from?
Thanks to all btw

#11

waazraath

Nov 26, 2009 17:33:07


i get the luminous armor bonus but unless i missed an errata on shield i would not get the Abj champion bonus since its not an Abjuration spell or did you mean a shield spell from another source not the players handbook. 



In my phb shield is listed as abjuration spell...
#12

staticx278

Nov 29, 2009 12:23:03


 Also, armor for a Gish isn't nearly as good as spells along with Abjurant Champion (Shield at +9, Greater Luminous Armor at +13, +22 just from 2 long-duration, Swift Action spells.).




i get the luminous armor bonus but unless i missed an errata on shield i would not get the Abj champion bonus since its not an Abjuration spell or did you mean a shield spell from another source not the players handbook. 

Just asking for you to clerifie it may also be a house rule in your game that the OP would not be able to use

but i do agree Armored gishes are kind of a thing of the past with Abj Champion unless you are going fo the whole RP reasons for it i wouldnt wear any armor either



Mage armor is a conjuration spell, thus would not be affected by Abj Champion class feature.  Shield is what you've got, and right out of the PHB, it's an Abjuration spell.  I would seriously check your player's handbook to verify what you're talking about.

Personally, my DM wouldn't allow me to use Lumious Armor because it is a fairly powerful spell compared to mage armor.  So in that regard, why not pick up a suit of armor and enchant it?  You can lose 20% ASF without resorting to ANY magic effects, another 10% from twilight, and then a level dip into spellsword means you can function in full platemail with no ASF, Kick that to +4, or magic vestments with arcane disciple, you're now rocking armor that's 13 points of AC all day, every day.  Buffs are nice and everything, but dispel magic can ruin your day with regards to buffs.  I'd rather become a melee character as a gish for d4 rounds than have to spend 4 rounds rebuffing myself.   Just saying.  Not to mention also, when you're wearing armor you can add various life saving effects like soulfire (BoED for immunity to level drain), Light fortification (for that crit that will ruin your day), etc.  There are so many amazing armor buffs out there that more than justifies an armored gish.  Abj Champion didn't replace the armored gish, it made them scarier.

And even beyond that, personally I'm rocking a chain shirt enchanted up with happiness and basically have permenant mage armor with no spell casting or armor check penalties.  The base armor cost 1800gp.  1800 for a permenant first level spell that's not dispellable?

Armored mages are not a thing of the past, even with Abjurant Champion.

#13

ancientdragon

Nov 29, 2009 16:30:06
Wow. That was actually quite charming. Thanks for supporting the armored mage cause