Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 the_grig_fiddler Oct 25, 2009 1:32:36	I found this build that im going to use for a lvl 35 gestalt oneshot. www.dandwiki.com/wiki/War_Hulking_Hurler... My question would be how to proceed for the next 15 lvls and what kinda of build for the other side? Also i plan on switching lolth touched with half dragon.
#2 awaken_D_M_golem Oct 25, 2009 14:25:45	Casters is where it's at, in epic. So get a random caster class, on the other side. Epic Spells feat, then checks out the Reducing options for the DC. Psionics gets you Vigor to have hitpoints for DC reduction. Leadership gets you followers for that reduction. TimeStop loops with movement to Zero Time planes, get youthe time discounts. Just make sure what you Buff works with the Hulk stuff. Auto Hit. Auto Kill. No save ... should all be within reach. Give or take, how much goofyness your DM allows, and how many bokks you have, and how !@$# you go.
#3 fisharewet Oct 25, 2009 15:31:38	honestly, 35 gestalt is SO strong the game will be rocket tag. no, nuke tag.   PUMP on the templates and monster classes to get all the Str you can. Hell, you won't even lose BAB with warhulk. 35 gestalt can EASILY put you over 100str without spells. That means, well, you do ~7000 damage at will with the lead ball you carry around. I did some fiddling with just what I know off the top of my head. HalfDragon HalfMinotaur Lolthtouched Lycanthropic (legendary bear) Centaur on one side. Barbarian, Frenzied Bezerker, War Hulk on another, oh, and 2 Psychic Warrior. The str of this in epic is that you don't need any magic. This example uses a little bit, but most of this works in an AMF. You'll still do, you know, 150 million d6. You're a one trick pony but damnit, you can throw planets. 18(base)+8(centaur)+8(halfdrag)+4(halfmino)+6(lolth)+26(hybridform)+4(rage)+10(frenzy)+20(hulk) = 104. Oh, and 35 HD means...  +8(levels)+6(item)+5(tome)... so still, not spells, and 123 Str. And augmented Expansion. You have 127 STR and are Garg with 4 legs. Your maximum load is 52 344 913 920. This is 261,724,572d6.
#4 tos_shai_hulud Oct 26, 2009 2:10:11	Well, that build is not optimal in the least. Centaur is a very sub-optimal build. You give up several levels for 4 legs. That is NOT worth it when you have the potential to gain 4 legs through other means (such as spellcasting). So, try this out instead: Half Black Dragon, Half Green Dragon Ogre Mage (This is already using up 19 levels of 35 just for hit dice and level adjustment, but it is worth it!!!) Now, you are immune to damage. All damage you take is nonlethal. So, if you can become immune to nonlethal damage, you are actually immune to damage completely. Well, add 5 levels of Wizard, 10 levels of Pale Master (and one level of anything else you like) and you have a non-gestalt character that is completely impossible to kill. Now, add to the other side anything that you like at all. I, personally, like druid. You can take some pretty nasty forms at that level. Heck, 35 levels of druid, and you are gonna be as bad-ass as they come! (This character could take a boulder from a hulking hurler of 3,000 strength and not take any damage from it).   If you really want a hulking hurler build, then how about this: Half-Ogre Werebear (afflicted) Lolth-touched, Half Black Dragon, Half Blue Dragon, Half Red Dragon, Half White Dragon, Half Copper Dragon, Half Gold Dragon, Half Green Dragon, Half Silver Dragon Barbarian 7/Hulking Hulker 3/War Hulk 27 Assuming that War Hulk may be taken in epic levels (granting +2 strength every level), this would give you a total strength of: Half-Ogre (+6) Werebear (+16 in hybrid form) Lolth-touched (+6) Half-dragon x8 (+64) War Hulk (+54) Great Strength (+10 --I'm assuming War Hulk grants bonus epic feats every three levels, like Barbarian) Manual (+5) Bracers of Relentless Might (+12) Level Advances (+8) = +181 (+18 base?) = 199 Strength pre-spells.   Another route that you can go: Dragonwrought Kobold (Venerable) Psion/Fighter 33 Psion/Hulking Hurler 2 Per the rules in the Draconomicon, this character is capable of taking epic feats beginning level 2. Give him as much strength as you like using epic Manifesting. He can easily create an epic power that will permanently increase his size category to Large or Larger (sizable between Large and Colossal would be nice). Epic manifesting would also allow you to conjure your weapon. Simply create a conduit to the elemental plane of Obdurium such that you can use Psionic Fabricate there to generate your boulder. You can now instantly manufacture your weapon, and using Craft Magic Arms and Armor, you can grant it the Returning ability (as well as any other abilities you can afford).
#5 fisharewet Oct 26, 2009 8:12:02	I know it's not totally optimized, it was just an example of what he was asking for! And I was avoiding hypothetical epic progressions, because, well, they don't exist. Taking all the HalfDragons is a good idea though, I'll give you that. And the 199 Str build only has 2 legs, where 4 legs will give you 50% more damage.
#6 tos_shai_hulud Oct 26, 2009 11:04:19	There is a graft that grants an additional two legs. I don't remember if it is in Lords of Madness, Fiend Folio, or one of the Eberron books, though.
#7 the_grig_fiddler Oct 27, 2009 1:53:01	How exactly does the epic feats from 2nd level work? Also can you tack on multiple half dragon templates?
#8 tos_shai_hulud Oct 27, 2009 16:25:13	How exactly does the epic feats from 2nd level work? Also can you tack on multiple half dragon templates? According to page 66 of the Draconomicon, a dragon of Old or Older can take epic feats. A dragonwrought kobold has the Dragon type. So long as he is Old, he can start taking epic feats. Yes, you can tack on as many half-dragon templates you like. The term "half-XXX" indicates that you possess the bloodline of said creature, but is not representative of a parent of said draconic heritage. Actually, it is unclear how recent the parentage must be. Since the rules don't state, it is nothing more than a template. Add as many as you like. According to general heredity, a person is considered "half-something" if one of their great grandparents were "something". For instance, a person is Half-Polish if one of their great grandparents were Polish.
#9 the_grig_fiddler Oct 27, 2009 23:14:57	Ok so on second thought the hulking hurler might be a bit to cheesy, but this dm is pretty much the best min/maxer i know in real life. I want a character preferably one with minimal casting or psionics that can take min of 1500 damage a round. I would like to beat his caster with a warrior character or is that really even possible at this level. Also i have most non ebberon books and all the quintisential books from mongoose.  Any more help advice? Thanks for the suggestions so far.
#10 tos_shai_hulud Oct 28, 2009 1:15:16	Create a Genesis plane (a sub-plane of the Ethereal) and use Transdimensional spell to be able to hit the material plane. You are safe and sound on another plane. You cannot take damage. No one can attack you on your own plane of existence.
#11 Omen_of_Peace Oct 28, 2009 8:53:22	Hulking Hurler doesn't strike me as a great idea: ranged attack can easily be deflected at this level (by an armor enchantment) and area attacks are not much better since huge save bonuses are common and Evasion everywhere. Melee gishes are in general where it's at, or casters if they abuse something (often Epic Spellcasting). Non abusive-casters fare poorly. Example of a build to kill your guy: a Dweomerkeeper using Holy Word (or Blasphemy or...) at CL 45 as a supernatural spell. No save, no SR. (Transdimensional Spell actually mostly allows to reach stuff on other planes from the Material, but even with your interpretation I'm guessing an epic divination of some kind + a Plane Shift would get the caster to you.)
#12 tos_shai_hulud Oct 28, 2009 11:21:23	Hulking Hurler doesn't strike me as a great idea: ranged attack can easily be deflected at this level (by an armor enchantment) and area attacks are not much better since huge save bonuses are common and Evasion everywhere. Melee gishes are in general where it's at, or casters if they abuse something (often Epic Spellcasting). Non abusive-casters fare poorly. Example of a build to kill your guy: a Dweomerkeeper using Holy Word (or Blasphemy or...) at CL 45 as a supernatural spell. No save, no SR. (Transdimensional Spell actually mostly allows to reach stuff on other planes from the Material, but even with your interpretation I'm guessing an epic divination of some kind + a Plane Shift would get the caster to you.) The creator of a genesis plane would be capable of setting the plane's features, such as making it so that all divination magic fails there.
#13 jktrondarr Nov 03, 2009 0:56:49	Every DM i've ever played with(including myself) makes LA/racial HD take up both sides of a gestalt for balance purposes, thus rendering all of these builds useless, instead of optimized. Have you guys actually ever gotten any of these "optimized builds" approved by your DM as playable, or is it all just wishful thinking?
#14 deoxhydroxinate Nov 03, 2009 15:20:09	During a Gestalt game or regular? None of my DMs have ever allowed gestalt, and my players refuse to play in one for fear of what I as a DM will throw at them.  =[