Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Sorwen Jun 07, 2012 14:07:45	Originally I was just going to use elves with the Werewolf template, but that isn't going to work in my game.  I could have just used any of the number of ones people have made, but they came with their own problems.  I finally decided to try creating them myself.  I kind of think I over did it, but I wanted some opinions.  I needed the two options of an LA +3 and an LA +4 type. Lythari +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma Medium size Humanoid (Shapechanger) Lythari base land speed is 30 feet in Elf Form. Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects. Low-Light Vision: A Lythari can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Sent in any form. +2 natural armor bonus in any form Wolf Form: Lythari are natural shapeshifters and can assume the form of a wolf as a standard action. A Lythari has the following bonuses on top of his base creature bonuses in Wolf Form unless otherwise noted: Dex +2 Base land speed 50. In wolf form a Lythari has a base land speed of 50. +4 natural armor bonus. This armor bonus stacks with the base creatures natural armor. Damge reduction 10/silver. Natural Weapons: Bite (1d6 + Str). Bonus Feats. A Lythari has the following bonus feats in Wolf Form only: Weapon Focus(Bite), Natural Spell, and Trip. Weapon Proficiency: Lythari receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats. Weapon Familiarity: Lythari can treat any elven weapons as a martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons. Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a Lythari is considered an elf. +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. A Lythari who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it. Pass without trace. In Elf Form a Lythari can cast Pass without Trace 3 times per day.  (I know conflicts with Natural Spell.) Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, and Wolf. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan. Favored Class: Ranger or Druid LA: +3 Warrior Lythari +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution, +4 Wisdom, +2 Charisma Medium size Humanoid (Shapechanger) Lythari base land speed is 30 feet in Elf Form. Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects. Low-Light Vision: A Lythari can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Darkvision: Warrior Lythari can see in the dark up to 60 feet. Sent in any form. +2 natural armor bonus in any form Damage reduction 5/silver Increased Hit Die. Warrior Lythari are much more harty than their normal breathern. Increase any class hit die by one die type to a maximum d12. Wolf Form: Lythari are natural shapeshifters and can assume the form of a wolf as a standard action. A Lythari has the following bonuses on top of his base creature bonuses in Wolf Form unless otherwise noted: Dex +2 Base land speed 50. In wolf form a Lythari has a base land speed is increased to 50. +4 natural armor bonus. This armor bonus stacks with the base creatures natural armor. Damge reduction 10/silver. This replaces the damage reduction 5/silver of the base race. Natural Weapons: Bite (1d6 + Str). Bonus Feats. A Lythari has the following bonus feats in Wolf Form only: Weapon Focus(Bite), Natural Spell, and Trip Hybrid Form: Warrior Lythari, unlike their breatheren, can assume a Hybrid Form. A Warrior Lythari has the following bonuses on top of his base creature bonuses in Hybrid Form unless otherwise noted: Str +2 +4 natural armor bonus. This armor bonus stacks with the base creatures natural armor. Damge reduction 10/silver. This replaces the damage reduction 5/silver of the base race. Natural Weapons. Warrior Lythari can attak normally or make a Bite (1d6 + Str) or Claw (1d8 + Str) attak in Hybrid Form. Full attack as per weapon or 2 Claws and bite Bonus Feats. A Warrior Lythari has the following additional bonus feats in Hybrid Form only: Weapon Focus(Bite) (Add Natural Spell??) Weapon Proficiency: Lythari receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats. +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it. Elven Blood: For all effects related to race, a Lythari is considered an elf. Weapon Familiarity: Lythari can treat any elven weapons as a martial weapons, rather than exotic weapons. Pass without trace. In Elf Form a Lythari can cast Pass without Trace 3 times per day. (I know conflicts with Natural Spell in Wolf form.) Automatic Languages: Common, Elven, and Wolf. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, and Sylvan. Favored Class: Ranger or Druid LA +4
#2 Neutronium_Dragon Jun 07, 2012 14:11:08	Why won't the regular werewolf template work in your game? IIRC, Races of Faerun did have an entry for them; they used the standard template with a couple of minor changes (such as no hybrid form and no Curse of Lycanthropy).
#3 Sorwen Jun 07, 2012 14:16:04	Why won't the regular werewolf template work in your game? IIRC, Races of Faerun did have an entry for them; they used the standard template with a couple of minor changes (no hybrid form, no Curse of Lycanthropy). A few reasons.  Several my own fault starting with what I didn't know then versus what I know now.  However last time I got into it my thread got way off topic. The way I understand(since I still haven't had a chance to check RoF as yet since a friend has the book and I don't) 3.0 had some kind of write up and 3.5 didn't.  I could be wrong as that is just what I could pick up from the web which of course isn't totally reliable.   Which even if it did wouldn't be too different than 3.0 which doesn't work for my current game.
#4 awaken_D_M_golem Jun 07, 2012 16:20:07	Note - relative power level is not right vs wrong, it's just finding the relative power level. Homebrew is fine.  Your non-crunch is fine. Without getting into the hard math, let's just say that what these templates do is not as powerful as what Polymorph can do. If you called both of these templates LA+2 and included LA buy-off, any disadvantage relative to Full Casters would slowly go away. See Caelic's 10 Commandments of C.O.
#5 Sorwen Jun 08, 2012 10:44:56	Note - relative power level is not right vs wrong, it's just finding the relative power level. Homebrew is fine.  Your non-crunch is fine. Without getting into the hard math, let's just say that what these templates do is not as powerful as what Polymorph can do. If you called both of these templates LA+2 and included LA buy-off, any disadvantage relative to Full Casters would slowly go away. See Caelic's 10 Commandments of C.O. True, but there is still potentially going over board for so little adjustment.  Even some of the official stuff goes that way sometimes.  Thanks for the input.  I hadn't heard of "Caelic's 10 Commandments of C.O." so I'll check that out.
#6 awaken_D_M_golem Jun 08, 2012 14:04:23	I checked the Surreal Dex, and the link is busted (figures). So here's an off site link: www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=413... Tongue in cheek, meets secret truths of the game. The basic idea on templates is it has to have something that makes up for the fact that LAs of 2 or more make: Frontliners have bad Hit Points, Skill Monkeys have bad skills, or Full Casters be down an entire level's worth of spells. Yeah, I'd concede that a Full Caster with an LA+2 that gets LA buy-off, might be over powered at levels 15+.  Once you get to LA+3 though, it's over. Ask a player whether they'd have 1 Wish everyday or be a Werewolf?  They might tell you they'd do both. (wink)