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Making a mad scientist > construct help please <

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
0datdude0
Jul 30, 2009 18:46:30 I've got a character idea i need help working into the game mechanic.

I want a builder of constructs either arcane or psionic, and I need to know if theirs any more information then whats under the craft constructs ( or craft psionic constructs ) feats?

I know their are effigy creatures in complete arcane and they do look cool. The prestige class effigy master does let you make them for only investing 1 feat and some skill points rather then the 3 feat investment to make constructs in genral. Are their any option rules or other information I can reference on make constructs beyond looking X up in the monster manual ? Maybe an unearthed arcana type thing?

thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
#2
emy
Jul 31, 2009 0:18:04 Mechonomicon may help.
#3
0datdude0
Jul 31, 2009 0:44:48 Are their any alternate crafting rules for this stuff like the point system the artificer uses ?
#4
pyro_azer
Jul 31, 2009 0:49:21 Not that I know of. However using an artificer might be a good idea.

if not for your main character it couldn't hurt to have an assistant (read: cohort)
#5
0datdude0
Jul 31, 2009 1:02:11 My gm doesnt let us use ebron classes. I might be able to talk him into the feats that cut the gold and xp cost down but even then thats A LOT of xp if you have more then one construct.
#6
phaedrusxy
Jul 31, 2009 10:16:15
My gm doesnt let us use ebron classes. I might be able to talk him into the feats that cut the gold and xp cost down but even then thats A LOT of xp if you have more then one construct.

Yes it is. I don't think making a bunch of "combat constructs" is ever really worth it. At most, you should have one or two. There are lots of "utility constructs" that are worth it, though. You can use them as scouts, to build things, to keep watch at night, as messengers, etc.

Also, you might check out the Experience is a River thread.
#7
atherton
Jul 31, 2009 10:58:13 How does your DM feel about Faerun material? I think it is Player's Guide to Faerun that has the 'magical artisan' feat, that reduces GP and XP expenditures for crafting. Could you post which books you have access to and what level you're starting at?

Edit: Three prestige classes and a bit more to consider.

Prestige Classes
Maester from Complete Adventurer.
It loses a caster level but halves construction time with a one level dip.

Spell Broker from Towers of High Sorcery (Dragonlance)
Relatively easy entry, full casting progression, no actual setting specific requirements or fluff, so a DM could include it in any campaign. The big draw is that in 5 levels it grants 3 crafting feats, a 10% XP and GP (possibly time) reduction to one sort of crafting (in your case, constructs) and a 30% XP and GP reduction (again it may also include time, check with your DM) to a specific item design (in your case, 0datdude0's Awful Adamantine Axe-a-trons or something similar). Only downside is that your creations are distinctive and more easily traced back to you. Honestly, I like the flavor that your lethal automata are just so awesome you can't resist stamping your personal crest on each and every one of them.

If your DM okays Magical Artisan and Spellbroker, you've got either a 52.5% reduction in XP and Gold (original price x .75 from MA x .70 from SB) or a 55% reduction (25% reduction from MA + 30% reduction from SB = 55%) depending on how he rules.

Further Advice
If you're going to be doing an real crafting, you need either in game downtime or someone to build things for you while you're slaying dragons. Ideally, you have both. The artificer makes this easy with it's dedicated wright homunculi, but in absence of that your best bet is a cohort. Or several cohorts. Ways to do this include Leadership, it's undead variant so you don't have to worry about up-keep, taking an apprentice as per the PHB2 rules (this may or may not stack with leadership), being a Guild Master (1 Cohort at a time, but you can cycle through 2-3 different models once per week) or just Charming/Dominating/Necrotic Cysting other crafters. This last option is probably a bad idea.

Assuming you get at least one assistant, you'll then need your Castle Frankenstein so they can work in relative safety while you're off adventuring. Stronghold Builder's Guide and the Landlord feat within would do the trick, but it's 3.0 so talk to your DM. Otherwise, try to get an airship from whatever campaign setting you are allowed (Forgotten Realms has one in the Shining South supplemental, the other settings probably have ones as well).

Epic Levels Advice
If you expect this character to reach epic levels, there's just a bit more.

The most basic thing is the feat 'efficient item creation' for building things (armies) fast.

Epic Insights (one of the online supplementary columns) published this a few month's back.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030314a

the Master Arcane Artisan may be 3.0 (judging by the year it was published), but I at least don't see anything woefully incompatible with a 3.5 game. It does a lot to solve your XP problem with a crafting pool similar to the Eberron Artificer's and a weaker version of the artificer's ability to drain magic items (traps, wonderous architecture in the bad guy's lair, etc) of XP for your own creations.
#8
hijaxx
Jul 31, 2009 12:45:13 building combat constructs are rarely worth it, especially if you cant have artificer.
They're mostly useful for utility, and again, artificers get all the fun stuff for this(read: retain essence and tools of war).
generally, dedicated item crafting is rarely worth it without artificer.

ok, to stop playing devil's advocate:Experience is a river trick is a must. as is all the cost reduction you can get. if your DM allows item familiar, take it.
efiigy master is cool enough, however, being restricted to effigys is kinda annoying(but do a forum search for 'Domo arigato mister roboto' )
there's a PrC somewhere called Maester. gnome only, it has a few abilities for item crafters(including golems).
#9
0datdude0
Jul 31, 2009 14:25:14
building combat constructs are rarely worth it, especially if you cant have artificer.
They're mostly useful for utility, and again, artificers get all the fun stuff for this(read: retain essence and tools of war).
generally, dedicated item crafting is rarely worth it without artificer.

ok, to stop playing devil's advocate:Experience is a river trick is a must. as is all the cost reduction you can get. if your DM allows item familiar, take it.
efiigy master is cool enough, however, being restricted to effigys is kinda annoying(but do a forum search for 'Domo arigato mister roboto' )
there's a PrC somewhere called Maester. gnome only, it has a few abilities for item crafters(including golems).

'Domo arigato mister roboto'

got me this thread and one about going off on a tangent
#10
hijaxx
Jul 31, 2009 14:32:55 hm, wierd.
the thread was about building an effigy of a creature with a stupid amount of template, then magic jarring into its body. since templates usually dont increase HD, this means you can create a very powerful effigy of a only moderate amount of HD, making it avaible early.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 0datdude0 Jul 30, 2009 18:46:30	I've got a character idea i need help working into the game mechanic. I want a builder of constructs either arcane or psionic, and I need to know if theirs any more information then whats under the craft constructs ( or craft psionic constructs ) feats? I know their are effigy creatures in complete arcane and they do look cool. The prestige class effigy master does let you make them for only investing 1 feat and some skill points rather then the 3 feat investment to make constructs in genral. Are their any option rules or other information I can reference on make constructs beyond looking X up in the monster manual ? Maybe an unearthed arcana type thing? thanks for pointing me in the right direction.
#2 emy Jul 31, 2009 0:18:04	Mechonomicon may help.
#3 0datdude0 Jul 31, 2009 0:44:48	Are their any alternate crafting rules for this stuff like the point system the artificer uses ?
#4 pyro_azer Jul 31, 2009 0:49:21	Not that I know of. However using an artificer might be a good idea. if not for your main character it couldn't hurt to have an assistant (read: cohort)
#5 0datdude0 Jul 31, 2009 1:02:11	My gm doesnt let us use ebron classes. I might be able to talk him into the feats that cut the gold and xp cost down but even then thats A LOT of xp if you have more then one construct.
#6 phaedrusxy Jul 31, 2009 10:16:15	My gm doesnt let us use ebron classes. I might be able to talk him into the feats that cut the gold and xp cost down but even then thats A LOT of xp if you have more then one construct. Yes it is. I don't think making a bunch of "combat constructs" is ever really worth it. At most, you should have one or two. There are lots of "utility constructs" that are worth it, though. You can use them as scouts, to build things, to keep watch at night, as messengers, etc. Also, you might check out the Experience is a River thread.
#7 atherton Jul 31, 2009 10:58:13	How does your DM feel about Faerun material? I think it is Player's Guide to Faerun that has the 'magical artisan' feat, that reduces GP and XP expenditures for crafting. Could you post which books you have access to and what level you're starting at? Edit: Three prestige classes and a bit more to consider. Prestige Classes Maester from Complete Adventurer. It loses a caster level but halves construction time with a one level dip. Spell Broker from Towers of High Sorcery (Dragonlance) Relatively easy entry, full casting progression, no actual setting specific requirements or fluff, so a DM could include it in any campaign. The big draw is that in 5 levels it grants 3 crafting feats, a 10% XP and GP (possibly time) reduction to one sort of crafting (in your case, constructs) and a 30% XP and GP reduction (again it may also include time, check with your DM) to a specific item design (in your case, 0datdude0's Awful Adamantine Axe-a-trons or something similar). Only downside is that your creations are distinctive and more easily traced back to you. Honestly, I like the flavor that your lethal automata are just so awesome you can't resist stamping your personal crest on each and every one of them. If your DM okays Magical Artisan and Spellbroker, you've got either a 52.5% reduction in XP and Gold (original price x .75 from MA x .70 from SB) or a 55% reduction (25% reduction from MA + 30% reduction from SB = 55%) depending on how he rules. Further Advice If you're going to be doing an real crafting, you need either in game downtime or someone to build things for you while you're slaying dragons. Ideally, you have both. The artificer makes this easy with it's dedicated wright homunculi, but in absence of that your best bet is a cohort. Or several cohorts. Ways to do this include Leadership, it's undead variant so you don't have to worry about up-keep, taking an apprentice as per the PHB2 rules (this may or may not stack with leadership), being a Guild Master (1 Cohort at a time, but you can cycle through 2-3 different models once per week) or just Charming/Dominating/Necrotic Cysting other crafters. This last option is probably a bad idea. Assuming you get at least one assistant, you'll then need your Castle Frankenstein so they can work in relative safety while you're off adventuring. Stronghold Builder's Guide and the Landlord feat within would do the trick, but it's 3.0 so talk to your DM. Otherwise, try to get an airship from whatever campaign setting you are allowed (Forgotten Realms has one in the Shining South supplemental, the other settings probably have ones as well). Epic Levels Advice If you expect this character to reach epic levels, there's just a bit more. The most basic thing is the feat 'efficient item creation' for building things (armies) fast. Epic Insights (one of the online supplementary columns) published this a few month's back. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030314a the Master Arcane Artisan may be 3.0 (judging by the year it was published), but I at least don't see anything woefully incompatible with a 3.5 game. It does a lot to solve your XP problem with a crafting pool similar to the Eberron Artificer's and a weaker version of the artificer's ability to drain magic items (traps, wonderous architecture in the bad guy's lair, etc) of XP for your own creations.
#8 hijaxx Jul 31, 2009 12:45:13	building combat constructs are rarely worth it, especially if you cant have artificer. They're mostly useful for utility, and again, artificers get all the fun stuff for this(read: retain essence and tools of war). generally, dedicated item crafting is rarely worth it without artificer. ok, to stop playing devil's advocate:Experience is a river trick is a must. as is all the cost reduction you can get. if your DM allows item familiar, take it. efiigy master is cool enough, however, being restricted to effigys is kinda annoying(but do a forum search for 'Domo arigato mister roboto' ) there's a PrC somewhere called Maester. gnome only, it has a few abilities for item crafters(including golems).
#9 0datdude0 Jul 31, 2009 14:25:14	building combat constructs are rarely worth it, especially if you cant have artificer. They're mostly useful for utility, and again, artificers get all the fun stuff for this(read: retain essence and tools of war). generally, dedicated item crafting is rarely worth it without artificer. ok, to stop playing devil's advocate:Experience is a river trick is a must. as is all the cost reduction you can get. if your DM allows item familiar, take it. efiigy master is cool enough, however, being restricted to effigys is kinda annoying(but do a forum search for 'Domo arigato mister roboto' ) there's a PrC somewhere called Maester. gnome only, it has a few abilities for item crafters(including golems). 'Domo arigato mister roboto' got me this thread and one about going off on a tangent
#10 hijaxx Jul 31, 2009 14:32:55	hm, wierd. the thread was about building an effigy of a creature with a stupid amount of template, then magic jarring into its body. since templates usually dont increase HD, this means you can create a very powerful effigy of a only moderate amount of HD, making it avaible early.