Making a Sneaky Little SOB

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

briar_copperleaf

Jun 11, 2009 15:00:14
I've toying with the thought for awhile of making the ultimate sneaky bast**d, a multi-class halfling using the classes of rogue, ninja, and enough sorcerer to get the spell 'Invisibility Greater', heres what i have so far

Halfling
Rogue 9, Ninja 3, Sorcerer 8
Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16, Charisma 16 (these are the basic stats, without level bonuses)

Any suggestions for feats and equipment, this is going to be long term game build, starting around 3rd level in the current game I'm in, no templates are allowed.

Thanx
#2

SwordDisciple

Jun 11, 2009 15:25:17
Telflammar Shadowlord will give you Improved Invisibility and is a great sneaky PrC.

I also recommend 10 lvls of Ninja if youare going down that class
#3

CantripN

Jun 11, 2009 15:33:18
Fang of Sseth (SK) is also an option. It offers, among other half-decent features, an ability that's like Superior Invisiblity (better than Imp. Invisbility), with a duration of 8 hours daily.
#4

jgumbyrx

Jun 11, 2009 15:52:30
warlock instead of sorc. will get you 24hr invis. at will in only 6 levels (if invis. is actually all your going for). also, you can use your eldritch blast for sneak attack.

just a thought.
#5

dbay

Jun 11, 2009 17:07:37
Warlock seems like your best bet, but you could probably drop all the caster levels and go for a magic item instead.

If you want to go sorc, I'd recommend PrCing into Arcane Trickster (DMG) after four levels Sorc. This'll give you 2d6 more sneak attack, as well as some other cool bonuses-and skills. It's better in every way than straight sorc for this purpose, as far as I can see.
#6

saxis

Jun 11, 2009 17:57:45
I'd probably drop Halfing in favor of Whisper Gnome, also.
#7

jgumbyrx

Jun 11, 2009 18:01:40
Warlock seems like your best bet, but you could probably drop all the caster levels and go for a magic item instead.

If you want to go sorc, I'd recommend PrCing into Arcane Trickster (DMG) after four levels Sorc. This'll give you 2d6 more sneak attack, as well as some other cool bonuses-and skills. It's better in every way than straight sorc for this purpose, as far as I can see.

AT requires able to cast a 3rd level spell -- need 6 levels of sorc.
#8

death_isthe_begining

Jun 11, 2009 18:53:22
Whisper Gnome Rogue9/Warlock6/Ninja3/Rogue2.
As the Warlock be sure to get Eldrich Glaive (Dragon Magic) and Walk Unseen.
Darkness(this first) and Devil Sight(this is optional). Another option is to switch the Ninja and Warlock levels.

Note: The invisiblity from the Ninja class is not like the spell Invisibilty it lasts the whole round regardless of what happens.
#9

lormador

Jun 11, 2009 20:26:34
Pixie is even more efficient than Warlock in terms of invisibility, and grants flight as well (which dodges Tremorsense).

Carnivore has a boatload of awesome Pixie builds around.

At a certain point items can do this for you, also.

One ought to look at a future where everyone can See Invisibility, use True Seeing, and/or has Blindsight, so one should prepare countermeasures before those level points. One wants the Hide in Plain Sight class feature, the Darkstalker feat, perhaps the Shadow Magic feats if one relies on magical stealth, and some way to dodge Mindsight/Lifesense (being undead and using Mind Blank for example).
#10

SwordDisciple

Jun 11, 2009 20:37:27
Whisper Gnome Rogue9/Warlock6/Ninja3/Rogue2.
As the Warlock be sure to get Eldrich Glaive (Dragon Magic) and Walk Unseen.
Darkness(this first) and Devil Sight(this is optional). Another option is to switch the Ninja and Warlock levels.

Note: The invisiblity from the Ninja class is not like the spell Invisibilty it lasts the whole round regardless of what happens.

Why 11 levels of Rogue? I'd use those as Ninja Levels. You then go ethereal and you can still strike them while you are ethereal
#11

xakypshalorn

Jun 11, 2009 21:20:37
My guess, he's got a reliable flanking partner and likes how much easier sneak attack is to pull off.
#12

xakypshalorn

Jun 11, 2009 21:26:11
My guess, he's got a reliable flanking partner and likes how much easier sneak attack is to pull off.
#13

emy

Jun 11, 2009 22:00:36
Pixie is even more efficient than Warlock in terms of invisibility, and grants flight as well (which dodges Tremorsense).

Carnivore has a boatload of awesome Pixie builds around.

At a certain point items can do this for you, also.

One ought to look at a future where everyone can See Invisibility, use True Seeing, and/or has Blindsight, so one should prepare countermeasures before those level points. One wants the Hide in Plain Sight class feature, the Darkstalker feat, perhaps the Shadow Magic feats if one relies on magical stealth, and some way to dodge Mindsight/Lifesense (being undead and using Mind Blank for example).

I'm AFB (so this is from memory), but...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/mindBlank.htm

The subject is protected from all devices and spells that detect, influence, or read emotions or thoughts.

This is the closest mind blank comes to preventing Mindsight. However, Mindsight is neither a device nor a spell.

This spell protects against all mind-affecting spells and effects as well as information gathering by divination spells or effects.

Mindsight is neither divination nor mind-affecting... and nor are most (not going to say all, because I vaguely remember a mind-affecting version out there somewhere) forms of telepathy. For example, Pseudodragons have the normal Telepathy ability that occurs in many places in the SRD (it's not mind-affecting).

Now, mind blank blocking Mindsight makes sense. I'm just pointing out what the actual text says.

edit: no mention of Beguilers from Shining South? For shame!

ps you should be able to make a greater invisibility wand with a single level of artificer. use the telflammar shadowlord version - it's a level 2 spell.
#14

obtusehobbit

Jun 11, 2009 22:16:17
On the subject of Beguiler, but a diffrent one.

Why hasn't any one suggested the Beguiler class from PHB 2. If you are using sorcerer to primarily pick up invisibility and greater invisibility then this class is generally better with light armor casting, Int based casting, 6+int skills and a few other useful abilities. Overall I think it would fit the bill much better then Sorcerer.
#15

SwordDisciple

Jun 11, 2009 22:40:20
edit: no mention of Beguilers from Shining South? For shame!

I didn't because Beguilers from Shining South are Level Adjustment: +0 (cohort). Available as Familiars as are Imps etc.

Further the description: This plump quadruped is about the size of a small dog. It is somewhat mouselike in appearance, with big, glistening black eyes, large ears, and a pointed snout. They use weapons with their tail not their hands (thus I would argue only one allowed to be weilded.

Finally this is their appearance

IMAGE(http://media.photobucket.com/image/beguiler%20shining%20south/Celestialdragon100/84366.jpg)
http://media.photobucket.com/image/beguiler%20shining%20south/Celestialdragon100/84366.jpg

Now I know people wont be happy about this post because Beguiler is a favourite of some. But I wouldn't be scared of a Beguiler Bad Guy if I were a party (unless this is the effect you are going for)
#16

lormador

Jun 12, 2009 10:32:28
Interesting, you know I never actually read Mindsense very closely until now.

I think Mindsight might count as an 'information gathering effect' which would be blocked by Mind Blank. The spell even foils Wish, so I mean, I think some respect should be given to it, particularly as it was written long before Mindsight came on the scene.

This isn't related, but Mindsight in addition contains the text 'functions like blindsight' making it unclear whether or not Darkstalker would function against it.

Finally, isn't there a ward somewhere that disrupts telepathy? I know I remember one somewhere.... was it in Exalted Deeds? That would clearly block Mindsight.

Anyway, I maintain that the only way to truly be stealthy in this game is to play some kind of flying undead Darkstalking thing with uber Hide, Hide in Plain Sight, and Mind Blank or something else good enough to stop Mindsight from working. Invisibility alone will only get one as far as the nearest Grimlock. Might as well go all the way and make a totally undetectable build, right? Perhaps an undead Pixie with a level in Lurking Terror and some serious UMD?