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Man the harpoon!

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cannonbolt
Apr 23, 2008 12:15:16 First time on this board so excuse my ignorance. Here goes - started a new campaign, levels 1-20 with epic intentions. Obviously starting at level 1, so there will be time for planning, but I need a direction to start off in.
Character idea:
Human harpoon hurler. I know the character will be X fighter/5 master thrower at least. I've scanned a few other threads and gotten some ideas but I know my DM probably will not allow the Tome of Battle so Warblade and Bloodstorm Blade will most likely not be options.

Starting at fighter 1 my feats would be: exotic weapon proficiency (harpoon), point blank shot, precise shot. Weapon focus would come at level 2 and level 3 may bring far shot.

I also toyed with the idea of start at rogue 1 for the skill points (3 ranks in sleight of hand would minimize loss of the fighter's already limited skill points due to cross classing). Feats would be exotic weapon proficiency (harpoon) and point blank shot. 2nd level would be fighter 1, taking precise shot. 3rd level (fighter 2) would bring weapon focus and far shot.

What do you think of my immediate plans. Also, what about more long term goals?
#2
shigunaru
Apr 23, 2008 12:18:58 Harpoon is one of the greatest exotic weapon ever! I have no time right now, but later I may submit a build for ya... In the meantime consider Exotic Weapon Master from CW.
#3
atomickitkat
Apr 23, 2008 12:41:41 Dungeon-crasher, Bloodstorm Blade, etc.
#4
cannonbolt
Apr 23, 2008 13:20:28
I know my DM probably will not allow the Tome of Battle so Warblade and Bloodstorm Blade will most likely not be options.

Any other suggestions?
#5
cannonbolt
Apr 23, 2008 13:24:37
Harpoon is one of the greatest exotic weapon ever! I have no time right now, but later I may submit a build for ya... In the meantime consider Exotic Weapon Master from CW.

Thanks, I appreciate it. I looked at the EWM but the only stunts that seem useful to me are the close quarters ranged fighting and the ranged disarm. Is there something that I'm missing?
#6
jaronk
Apr 23, 2008 15:16:16 Well, if you can get large (Permanent Enlarge Person, perhaps?), try using War Hulk and Hulking Hurler together for absolutely insane damage.

JaronK
#7
korremar
Apr 23, 2008 15:49:15 You should talk with your DM about Returning. It's nice on any throwing weapon anyway, but you should see if you can trigger the exit damage with the Returning quality. Logically you should be able to; mechanically it doesn't say so. DM's ruling.
#8
phaedrusxy
Apr 23, 2008 17:50:52 Brutal Throw. I forget which book that's from.
#9
skydragonknight
Apr 23, 2008 20:20:59 Are psionics allowed?

Edit: Actually a comprehensive list of books available(or not available) would be nice. Harpoons are my second favorite thrown weapon second only to Talenta Boomerangs. You've gotten an optimizer's interest.
#10
maeglin_dubh
Apr 23, 2008 21:06:11 Here's my last attempt at a harpooner.
#11
cannonbolt
Apr 23, 2008 23:19:03
Are psionics allowed?

Edit: Actually a comprehensive list of books available(or not available) would be nice. Harpoons are my second favorite thrown weapon second only to Talenta Boomerangs. You've gotten an optimizer's interest.

I'll have to inquire to my DM about the psionics, I've never seen any psionics in any of his games. As far as I know the only two books banned are Tome of Battle and Book of Exalted Deeds.

I think I've decided on the first few levels of the build:

Human
Scout 1: Exotic weapon proficiency, point blank shot
Fighter 1: Precise shot
Fighter 2: weapon focus

I still need another feat at 3rd level. I was thinking Far Shot or maybe Two-Weapon Fighting so I can fill them with throwing axes while I jerk them around with the harpoon. Plus, wouldn't I get skirmish damage on the throwing axe as well as the harpoon? That could potentially be d10+3d6+8 (including STR bonus and Point Blank Shot) at 3rd level.

Anyone have suggestions or see and problems with what I am pondering so far?
#12
bowensilverclaw1986
Apr 24, 2008 5:50:23 Tsuyo's Spiky Synergy

Enjoy
#13
thanael
Apr 24, 2008 6:07:54 How about the Darkhagard PrC from Living Greyhawk Journal?

Oh and adapt the style feat Spinning Halberd from CW to Spinning Darkha or Spinning Harpoon
#14
atomickitkat
Apr 24, 2008 10:02:45 Brutal Throw's from Complete Adventurer.

How to make your DM hate you: Sovereign Glue+Harpoon+Immovable Rod. Now you get to be Foghorn Leghorn taunting the dog on the leash.;)
#15
cannonbolt
Apr 25, 2008 6:17:49 What is sovereign glue?
#16
CantripN
Apr 25, 2008 6:21:27 Sovereign Glue

Sovereign Glue

This pale amber substance is thick and viscous. Because of its particular powers, it can be contained only in a flask whose inside has been coated with 1 ounce of salve of slipperiness, and each time any of the bonding agent is poured from the flask, a new application of the salve of slipperiness must be put in the flask within 1 round to prevent the remaining glue from adhering to the side of the container. A flask of sovereign glue, when found, holds anywhere from 1 to 7 ounces of the stuff (1d8-1, minimum 1), with the other ounce of the flask’s capacity taken up by the salve of slipperiness. One ounce of this adhesive covers 1 square foot of surface, bonding virtually any two substances together in a permanent union. The glue takes 1 round to set. If the objects are pulled apart (a move action) before that time has elapsed, that application of the glue loses its stickiness and is worthless. If the glue is allowed to set, then attempting to separate the two bonded objects has no effect, except when universal solvent is applied to the bond. (Sovereign glue is dissolved by universal solvent.)

Strong transmutation; CL 20th; Craft Wondrous Item, make whole; Price 2,400 gp (per ounce).

#17
cannonbolt
Apr 25, 2008 19:26:08 @skydragonknight - Psionics are not allowed.

I spoke with my DM about the idea and he liked it. We also set down a few rules regarding the harpoon - the biggest thing being that I could use an attack action to make a trip attack against my harpooned enemy (assuming they fail the Reflex save), without them having the opportunity to return the favor.

This addition makes the harpoon that much better, but it also raises an issue for me. I had originally intended the character, whom I've decided to name Lou Magoo, to be ranged only - using harpoons and eventually throwing axes through the use of Two-Weapon Fighting. However, if I'm correct, making a ranged attack against a prone character incurs a -4 penalty and that doesn't sound gravy at all.
So what about using the harpoon and a melee weapon in the other hand. Of course at level one this will be tough but as Lou advances, gaining more attacks and Quick Draw, how do you think this will work out? Anyone done something similar?
#18
atomickitkat
Apr 26, 2008 10:28:36 Again, I cannot stress enough how much sovereign glue would help your strategy. Sure, the DM might throw the book at you(literally) after the first couple of times, but it works fine(and any monster that can make DC 30 Strength checks would still be able to move, albeit slowly), and does cost a fair bit. Not forgetting that you're specialising in the Harpoon, yet your main tactic is to throw it away, followed by using other weapons.:P

Personally, I'd houserule it to be usable as a spear(ie, same stats, maybe +1 die size damage) at melee range.
#19
cannonbolt
Apr 26, 2008 13:10:06 Wouldn't it function with exactly the same stats and props in melee? Just because it has range increments, doesn't mean I have to use them right?

Also, in regards to Rapid Shot, since I won't have Quick Draw or Two Weapon Fighting yet, I was trying to think of ways to get around that. Like - having a harpoon readied in each hand and after throwing the first harpoon with my primary, swapping the harpoon in my off hand for the trailing rope, then hurling the second harpoon with my primary hand. Could I get away with that?
#20
bowensilverclaw1986
Apr 26, 2008 13:22:11 IIRC switching items between your hands is a free action, so I'd let you.
But ask your DM just to be sure.

~Bowen
#21
cravin
Apr 26, 2008 16:28:34 Have you seen the Neanderthal race? It is in frostburn, page 39

Neanderthal -
+2 Str
+2 Con
–2 Dex
–2 Int
• Medium size
• 30’ movement
• Primitive Weapon Mastery – +1 Racial bonus on attacks with Bolas, Club, Dart, Greatclub, Goad, Harpoon, Iuak, Javelin, Longspear, Quarterstaff,
Ritiik, Shortbow, Shortspear, Sling, Spear, Sugliin, Throwing Axe, & Tigerskull Club.
• +2 Racial bonus on Listen, Spot, & Survival checks.
• Climate Tolerant – Can comfortably assist in
conditions of ‘severe cold’ to ‘severe heat’ without
needing a Fortitude save. They are considered to
have the feat Cold Endurance for purposes of a
prerequisite for classes & other feats.
• Illiteracy – a Neanderthal must spend a Skill Point to
become literate not matter which class he/she takes
(with the exception of Wizard)

the -2 dex kind of hurts throwing, unless you couple it with brutal throw.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cannonbolt Apr 23, 2008 12:15:16	First time on this board so excuse my ignorance. Here goes - started a new campaign, levels 1-20 with epic intentions. Obviously starting at level 1, so there will be time for planning, but I need a direction to start off in. Character idea: Human harpoon hurler. I know the character will be X fighter/5 master thrower at least. I've scanned a few other threads and gotten some ideas but I know my DM probably will not allow the Tome of Battle so Warblade and Bloodstorm Blade will most likely not be options. Starting at fighter 1 my feats would be: exotic weapon proficiency (harpoon), point blank shot, precise shot. Weapon focus would come at level 2 and level 3 may bring far shot. I also toyed with the idea of start at rogue 1 for the skill points (3 ranks in sleight of hand would minimize loss of the fighter's already limited skill points due to cross classing). Feats would be exotic weapon proficiency (harpoon) and point blank shot. 2nd level would be fighter 1, taking precise shot. 3rd level (fighter 2) would bring weapon focus and far shot. What do you think of my immediate plans. Also, what about more long term goals?
#2 shigunaru Apr 23, 2008 12:18:58	Harpoon is one of the greatest exotic weapon ever! I have no time right now, but later I may submit a build for ya... In the meantime consider Exotic Weapon Master from CW.
#3 atomickitkat Apr 23, 2008 12:41:41	Dungeon-crasher, Bloodstorm Blade, etc.
#4 cannonbolt Apr 23, 2008 13:20:28	I know my DM probably will not allow the Tome of Battle so Warblade and Bloodstorm Blade will most likely not be options. Any other suggestions?
#5 cannonbolt Apr 23, 2008 13:24:37	Harpoon is one of the greatest exotic weapon ever! I have no time right now, but later I may submit a build for ya... In the meantime consider Exotic Weapon Master from CW. Thanks, I appreciate it. I looked at the EWM but the only stunts that seem useful to me are the close quarters ranged fighting and the ranged disarm. Is there something that I'm missing?
#6 jaronk Apr 23, 2008 15:16:16	Well, if you can get large (Permanent Enlarge Person, perhaps?), try using War Hulk and Hulking Hurler together for absolutely insane damage. JaronK
#7 korremar Apr 23, 2008 15:49:15	You should talk with your DM about Returning. It's nice on any throwing weapon anyway, but you should see if you can trigger the exit damage with the Returning quality. Logically you should be able to; mechanically it doesn't say so. DM's ruling.
#8 phaedrusxy Apr 23, 2008 17:50:52	Brutal Throw. I forget which book that's from.
#9 skydragonknight Apr 23, 2008 20:20:59	Are psionics allowed? Edit: Actually a comprehensive list of books available(or not available) would be nice. Harpoons are my second favorite thrown weapon second only to Talenta Boomerangs. You've gotten an optimizer's interest.
#10 maeglin_dubh Apr 23, 2008 21:06:11	Here's my last attempt at a harpooner.
#11 cannonbolt Apr 23, 2008 23:19:03	Are psionics allowed? Edit: Actually a comprehensive list of books available(or not available) would be nice. Harpoons are my second favorite thrown weapon second only to Talenta Boomerangs. You've gotten an optimizer's interest. I'll have to inquire to my DM about the psionics, I've never seen any psionics in any of his games. As far as I know the only two books banned are Tome of Battle and Book of Exalted Deeds. I think I've decided on the first few levels of the build: Human Scout 1: Exotic weapon proficiency, point blank shot Fighter 1: Precise shot Fighter 2: weapon focus I still need another feat at 3rd level. I was thinking Far Shot or maybe Two-Weapon Fighting so I can fill them with throwing axes while I jerk them around with the harpoon. Plus, wouldn't I get skirmish damage on the throwing axe as well as the harpoon? That could potentially be d10+3d6+8 (including STR bonus and Point Blank Shot) at 3rd level. Anyone have suggestions or see and problems with what I am pondering so far?
#12 bowensilverclaw1986 Apr 24, 2008 5:50:23	Tsuyo's Spiky Synergy Enjoy
#13 thanael Apr 24, 2008 6:07:54	How about the Darkhagard PrC from Living Greyhawk Journal? Oh and adapt the style feat Spinning Halberd from CW to Spinning Darkha or Spinning Harpoon
#14 atomickitkat Apr 24, 2008 10:02:45	Brutal Throw's from Complete Adventurer. How to make your DM hate you: Sovereign Glue+Harpoon+Immovable Rod. Now you get to be Foghorn Leghorn taunting the dog on the leash.;)
#15 cannonbolt Apr 25, 2008 6:17:49	What is sovereign glue?
#16 CantripN Apr 25, 2008 6:21:27	Sovereign Glue Sovereign Glue This pale amber substance is thick and viscous. Because of its particular powers, it can be contained only in a flask whose inside has been coated with 1 ounce of salve of slipperiness, and each time any of the bonding agent is poured from the flask, a new application of the salve of slipperiness must be put in the flask within 1 round to prevent the remaining glue from adhering to the side of the container. A flask of sovereign glue, when found, holds anywhere from 1 to 7 ounces of the stuff (1d8-1, minimum 1), with the other ounce of the flask’s capacity taken up by the salve of slipperiness. One ounce of this adhesive covers 1 square foot of surface, bonding virtually any two substances together in a permanent union. The glue takes 1 round to set. If the objects are pulled apart (a move action) before that time has elapsed, that application of the glue loses its stickiness and is worthless. If the glue is allowed to set, then attempting to separate the two bonded objects has no effect, except when universal solvent is applied to the bond. (Sovereign glue is dissolved by universal solvent.) Strong transmutation; CL 20th; Craft Wondrous Item, make whole; Price 2,400 gp (per ounce).
#17 cannonbolt Apr 25, 2008 19:26:08	@skydragonknight - Psionics are not allowed. I spoke with my DM about the idea and he liked it. We also set down a few rules regarding the harpoon - the biggest thing being that I could use an attack action to make a trip attack against my harpooned enemy (assuming they fail the Reflex save), without them having the opportunity to return the favor. This addition makes the harpoon that much better, but it also raises an issue for me. I had originally intended the character, whom I've decided to name Lou Magoo, to be ranged only - using harpoons and eventually throwing axes through the use of Two-Weapon Fighting. However, if I'm correct, making a ranged attack against a prone character incurs a -4 penalty and that doesn't sound gravy at all. So what about using the harpoon and a melee weapon in the other hand. Of course at level one this will be tough but as Lou advances, gaining more attacks and Quick Draw, how do you think this will work out? Anyone done something similar?
#18 atomickitkat Apr 26, 2008 10:28:36	Again, I cannot stress enough how much sovereign glue would help your strategy. Sure, the DM might throw the book at you(literally) after the first couple of times, but it works fine(and any monster that can make DC 30 Strength checks would still be able to move, albeit slowly), and does cost a fair bit. Not forgetting that you're specialising in the Harpoon, yet your main tactic is to throw it away, followed by using other weapons.:P Personally, I'd houserule it to be usable as a spear(ie, same stats, maybe +1 die size damage) at melee range.
#19 cannonbolt Apr 26, 2008 13:10:06	Wouldn't it function with exactly the same stats and props in melee? Just because it has range increments, doesn't mean I have to use them right? Also, in regards to Rapid Shot, since I won't have Quick Draw or Two Weapon Fighting yet, I was trying to think of ways to get around that. Like - having a harpoon readied in each hand and after throwing the first harpoon with my primary, swapping the harpoon in my off hand for the trailing rope, then hurling the second harpoon with my primary hand. Could I get away with that?
#20 bowensilverclaw1986 Apr 26, 2008 13:22:11	IIRC switching items between your hands is a free action, so I'd let you. But ask your DM just to be sure. ~Bowen
#21 cravin Apr 26, 2008 16:28:34	Have you seen the Neanderthal race? It is in frostburn, page 39 Neanderthal - +2 Str +2 Con –2 Dex –2 Int • Medium size • 30’ movement • Primitive Weapon Mastery – +1 Racial bonus on attacks with Bolas, Club, Dart, Greatclub, Goad, Harpoon, Iuak, Javelin, Longspear, Quarterstaff, Ritiik, Shortbow, Shortspear, Sling, Spear, Sugliin, Throwing Axe, & Tigerskull Club. • +2 Racial bonus on Listen, Spot, & Survival checks. • Climate Tolerant – Can comfortably assist in conditions of ‘severe cold’ to ‘severe heat’ without needing a Fortitude save. They are considered to have the feat Cold Endurance for purposes of a prerequisite for classes & other feats. • Illiteracy – a Neanderthal must spend a Skill Point to become literate not matter which class he/she takes (with the exception of Wizard) the -2 dex kind of hurts throwing, unless you couple it with brutal throw.