Marvin the Paranoid...Bard? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 aotrscommander Jun 19, 2008 17:19:59	Or can you make a Dirgesinger with out actually being a Dirgesinger (and thus making a weak class even weaker?) Wasn't quite sure whether to post this here or in 3.5 general, but I decided it's a mainly mechanical question. Background: My sister has been struggling to come up with a character for the next campaign we're planning (current party make up one Rogue (future Rogue/Ninja/Invisible Blade), psion, cleric, nominally one wizard and something else). After some thought, she made an off-hand remark about playing a bard a bit like Marvin the Paranoid Android. I immediately thought of the Dirgesinger (using Perform (oratory) for the depressing monologue) and showed her the class. She was getting quite excited about the concept - until we actually looked at the mechanics; which were frankly, pants to say the least. So, is there a way of getting the same sort of idea - i.e. of a reversed bardic music-type feel - without actually completely sucking? (I recall a feat in NWN 1 which did that, but I can't seem to find anything similar in 3.5 itself). A bardic music-style debuffer, if you will. I broached the idea of reflavoured psionics (which seems just about feasible), but she wasn't too struck on the idea. Are there any other way round this, (other PrCs I've missed, for example) and how best would it be to optimise such a design? Or is there another totally different option I've missed that's even cleverer? (I never underestimate the cunning and rules-savvy of the dread denizens of Char Ops!) Source material DM approved and available for campaign Core All Completes XPH Untapped Potential Hyperconcious Tome of Battle Magic Item Compendium Spell Compendium Heroes of Battle Book of Exalted Deeds Book of Vile Darkness Libris Mortis Planar Handbook Manual of the Planes Draconomicon And third-party for what it's worth Relics & Rituals Sea Farer's Handbook
#2 Balthanon Jun 19, 2008 19:26:40	With that group, you might want to have a fighter character among the party-- the rogue will take that to some extent, but depending on one frontline combatant isn't a great idea. That said, the abilities for Dirgesinger aren't horrible, particularly with the ungodly DCs that the songs have. Song of Grief in particular could easily take at least one enemy out of any given battle. I would consider combining Tome of Battle (warlord or crusader), bard, and Song of the White Raven to segue into Dirgesinger. If your sister is interested in raising undead, then the 5th level ability could be worthwhile (basically gives you one of your opponents for the duration of a few fights), though possibly only at higher levels to mitigate the BAB loss. Bard 1/Crusader 5/Dirgesinger 1/Crusader 1/Dirgesinger 2/Crusader 5 would come out fairly well. It would have a 13 BAB, 7th level maneuvers, +2 or +3 inspire courage (with some of the boosting items/abilities available), and up through Song of Madness. (I mainly went with Crusader because it seems like a better flavor fit for Dirgesinger [more somber]-- Warblade would work as well.)
#3 surreal Jun 20, 2008 3:44:01	Going with the above suggestions, I would consider perhaps War Chanter so you can eventually combine songs. This will let you buff your allies and debuff your enemies at the same time. Coordinate alpha strikes with your teammates to take out one specific foe in the first round so you can awaken it as a loyal undead right away (and have it benefit from your buff songs).
#4 aotrscommander Jun 20, 2008 5:33:51	With that group, you might want to have a fighter character among the party-- the rogue will take that to some extent, but depending on one frontline combatant isn't a great idea. That said, the abilities for Dirgesinger aren't horrible, particularly with the ungodly DCs that the songs have. Song of Grief in particular could easily take at least one enemy out of any given battle. I would consider combining Tome of Battle (warlord or crusader), bard, and Song of the White Raven to segue into Dirgesinger. If your sister is interested in raising undead, then the 5th level ability could be worthwhile (basically gives you one of your opponents for the duration of a few fights), though possibly only at higher levels to mitigate the BAB loss. Bard 1/Crusader 5/Dirgesinger 1/Crusader 1/Dirgesinger 2/Crusader 5 would come out fairly well. It would have a 13 BAB, 7th level maneuvers, +2 or +3 inspire courage (with some of the boosting items/abilities available), and up through Song of Madness. (I mainly went with Crusader because it seems like a better flavor fit for Dirgesinger [more somber]-- Warblade would work as well.) She's currently playing a crusader (and in a party with a Dread Necromancer/Pale Master animation specialist no less), so I don't think she'll want to play a crusader again or be raising Undead. Warblade I think is a better option (or possible Tempest's Sublime Marshal...she even did consider the latter ages ago.) (Song of the White Raven and Battledancer were topping my list of optimisation options.¹. War Chanter look feasable, I'll suggest it. Keep the suggestions coming, thanks folks. ¹Especialkly since the last time we ried 'optimising' a bard - (which admittedly started in 3.0 and before I frequented the boards) we suggested he take Fighter levels and then go into Duelist... Oops.
#5 aotrscommander Jun 23, 2008 9:02:51	Any more suggestions, folks? If not, I'll have to manage with what we've got and let this thread die off.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

aotrscommander

Jun 19, 2008 17:19:59

Or can you make a Dirgesinger with out actually being a Dirgesinger (and thus making a weak class even weaker?)

Wasn't quite sure whether to post this here or in 3.5 general, but I decided it's a mainly mechanical question.

Background:
My sister has been struggling to come up with a character for the next campaign we're planning (current party make up one Rogue (future Rogue/Ninja/Invisible Blade), psion, cleric, nominally one wizard and something else). After some thought, she made an off-hand remark about playing a bard a bit like Marvin the Paranoid Android. I immediately thought of the Dirgesinger (using Perform (oratory) for the depressing monologue) and showed her the class. She was getting quite excited about the concept - until we actually looked at the mechanics; which were frankly, pants to say the least.

So, is there a way of getting the same sort of idea - i.e. of a reversed bardic music-type feel - without actually completely sucking? (I recall a feat in NWN 1 which did that, but I can't seem to find anything similar in 3.5 itself). A bardic music-style debuffer, if you will.

I broached the idea of reflavoured psionics (which seems just about feasible), but she wasn't too struck on the idea. Are there any other way round this, (other PrCs I've missed, for example) and how best would it be to optimise such a design? Or is there another totally different option I've missed that's even cleverer? (I never underestimate the cunning and rules-savvy of the dread denizens of Char Ops!)

Source material DM approved and available for campaign

Core
All Completes
XPH
Untapped Potential
Hyperconcious
Tome of Battle
Magic Item Compendium
Spell Compendium
Heroes of Battle
Book of Exalted Deeds
Book of Vile Darkness
Libris Mortis
Planar Handbook
Manual of the Planes
Draconomicon

And third-party for what it's worth
Relics & Rituals
Sea Farer's Handbook

Balthanon

Jun 19, 2008 19:26:40

With that group, you might want to have a fighter character among the party-- the rogue will take that to some extent, but depending on one frontline combatant isn't a great idea.

That said, the abilities for Dirgesinger aren't horrible, particularly with the ungodly DCs that the songs have. Song of Grief in particular could easily take at least one enemy out of any given battle.

I would consider combining Tome of Battle (warlord or crusader), bard, and Song of the White Raven to segue into Dirgesinger. If your sister is interested in raising undead, then the 5th level ability could be worthwhile (basically gives you one of your opponents for the duration of a few fights), though possibly only at higher levels to mitigate the BAB loss.

Bard 1/Crusader 5/Dirgesinger 1/Crusader 1/Dirgesinger 2/Crusader 5 would come out fairly well. It would have a 13 BAB, 7th level maneuvers, +2 or +3 inspire courage (with some of the boosting items/abilities available), and up through Song of Madness. (I mainly went with Crusader because it seems like a better flavor fit for Dirgesinger [more somber]-- Warblade would work as well.)

surreal

Jun 20, 2008 3:44:01

Going with the above suggestions, I would consider perhaps War Chanter so you can eventually combine songs. This will let you buff your allies and debuff your enemies at the same time. Coordinate alpha strikes with your teammates to take out one specific foe in the first round so you can awaken it as a loyal undead right away (and have it benefit from your buff songs).

aotrscommander

Jun 20, 2008 5:33:51

With that group, you might want to have a fighter character among the party-- the rogue will take that to some extent, but depending on one frontline combatant isn't a great idea.

That said, the abilities for Dirgesinger aren't horrible, particularly with the ungodly DCs that the songs have. Song of Grief in particular could easily take at least one enemy out of any given battle.

I would consider combining Tome of Battle (warlord or crusader), bard, and Song of the White Raven to segue into Dirgesinger. If your sister is interested in raising undead, then the 5th level ability could be worthwhile (basically gives you one of your opponents for the duration of a few fights), though possibly only at higher levels to mitigate the BAB loss.

Bard 1/Crusader 5/Dirgesinger 1/Crusader 1/Dirgesinger 2/Crusader 5 would come out fairly well. It would have a 13 BAB, 7th level maneuvers, +2 or +3 inspire courage (with some of the boosting items/abilities available), and up through Song of Madness. (I mainly went with Crusader because it seems like a better flavor fit for Dirgesinger [more somber]-- Warblade would work as well.)

She's currently playing a crusader (and in a party with a Dread Necromancer/Pale Master animation specialist no less), so I don't think she'll want to play a crusader again or be raising Undead. Warblade I think is a better option (or possible Tempest's Sublime Marshal...she even did consider the latter ages ago.) (Song of the White Raven and Battledancer were topping my list of optimisation options.¹.

War Chanter look feasable, I'll suggest it.

Keep the suggestions coming, thanks folks.

¹Especialkly since the last time we ried 'optimising' a bard - (which admittedly started in 3.0 and before I frequented the boards) we suggested he take Fighter levels and then go into Duelist... Oops.

aotrscommander

Jun 23, 2008 9:02:51

Any more suggestions, folks?

If not, I'll have to manage with what we've got and let this thread die off.