Master of many forms may have just gotten a lot better. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Master of many forms may have just gotten a lot better.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
flawless_p
May 01, 2009 14:03:08 I was reading over the feat, Exalted Wild shape pg. 42 of the Book of Exalted Deeds.

Its prerequisites are wild shape class feature, wild shaping class of 8th level
it allows you to add the celestial template to any form you take as well as access to all the supernatural and extraordinary abilities of that form.

Since the master of many forms class feature is based off of wild shape and is not its own separate ability(A master of many forms knows how to use her wild shape ability to assume a wider range of forms.) So that means that at 9th level a wild shaping character could take that feat and run around using a celestial beholder with eye rays and antimagic cone....

So did I do good? Or am I horribly mistaken?
#2
deathlessjuan
May 01, 2009 14:15:39 Good loophole. Though I think that was only meant to allow you to use the supernatural and extraordinary abilities that the template gave you. This is the the CO board though, RAW is king.

However, being exalted has some very hefty roleplaying costs. Unless you are very familiar with how good and evil work in the D&D universe, I would highly recommend you stay away from the exalted feats. Good and evil are black and white in D&D and it only takes one evil act to strip you of your feats.
#3
phaedrusxy
May 01, 2009 14:20:14 Wow... that's pretty crazy. I'd have to look at the feat to see the exact wording, but if it is worded the way you say, then yeah, it would work.
#4
flawless_p
May 01, 2009 14:52:08
Good loophole. Though I think that was only meant to allow you to use the supernatural and extraordinary abilities that the template gave you. This is the the CO board though, RAW is king.

However, being exalted has some very hefty roleplaying costs. Unless you are very familiar with how good and evil work in the D&D universe, I would highly recommend you stay away from the exalted feats. Good and evil are black and white in D&D and it only takes one evil act to strip you of your feats.

But even if you do something evil you can still atone for it and get your feats back, the only exalted feats that can't be atoned are the vows.

Wow... that's pretty crazy. I'd have to look at the feat to see the exact wording, but if it is worded the way you say, then yeah, it would work.

I would post it word for word but I don't know if it would be allowed per board rules
#5
phaedrusxy
May 01, 2009 14:55:14 It's allowed. It's called "fair use".
#6
darkpawn
May 01, 2009 14:57:06 Bah, Planar Shepherds' laugh at your Masters of Many Forms. ;)
#7
gryfter
May 01, 2009 15:09:50
Bah, Planar Shepherds' laugh at your Masters of Many Forms. ;)

From the "utterly banned" pile in the corner.
#8
flawless_p
May 01, 2009 15:13:40 Exalted Wild Shape[Exalted, Wild]
Benifit: You can use your wild shape abilityto turn yourself into a blink dog, giant eagle, giant owl, pegasus, or unicorn. You can also turn into a celestial verson of any animal you could normally transform into.(At the DM's discretion, other magical beast forms might be availible to you. In general, only creatures of CR 3 or lower are possible.) You gain the extraordinary and supernatural abilites of the creature. This ability counts as the use of your wild shape ability and functions the same way.
#9
phaedrusxy
May 01, 2009 15:17:52
Exalted Wild Shape [Exalted, Wild]
Benefit: You can use your wild shape ability to turn yourself into a blink dog, giant eagle, giant owl, pegasus, or unicorn. You can also turn into a celestial verson of any animal you could normally transform into.(At the DM's discretion, other magical beast forms might be availible to you. In general, only creatures of CR 3 or lower are possible.) You gain the extraordinary and supernatural abilites of the creature. This ability counts as the use of your wild shape ability and functions the same way.

I think the underlined parts actually shoot this down. The first one says it is specific for the forms listed, or animals. The second part says you gain abilities from the creatures listed in this feat only, basically. It's obviously not RAI, and I think the RAW is pretty shaky, too.
#10
flawless_p
May 01, 2009 15:25:59
I think the underlined parts actually shoot this down. The first one says it is specific for the forms listed, or animals. The second part says you gain abilities from the creatures listed in this feat only, basically. It's obviously not RAI, and I think the RAW is pretty shaky, too.

Well it was fun while it lasted, either way I think the supernatural abilities part is for any form assumed because it would have been in parenthesis with the other stuff otherwise.
I think if I play with my usual DM i'll get away with it but most people prolly wont allow it. I guess i'll have to play a good guy mmof next time i play and see what he decides.
#11
dr_rocktopus
May 01, 2009 15:44:53 I guess the question is what the heck is an animal? Is there perhaps an errata for the second sentence though? I know it's supposed to refer to the list of animals, but as written the antecedents are unclear enough that I found it pretty compelling on a re-read. If I didn't know what I do about the game, I might as a more naive person read it in the fashion flawless_p suggests.
#12
deathlessjuan
May 01, 2009 16:20:23
I guess the question is what the heck is an animal? Is there perhaps an errata for the second sentence though?

No need for an errata. An animal is any creature with the 'Animal' type.
#13
flawless_p
May 01, 2009 18:03:43
No need for an errata. An animal is any creature with the 'Animal' type.

I think what he means is that since this came out before Mmof that it may appear to some that it wasnt animal to be specific it was more of animal because thats all you can do.

not saying thats how i read it just how some others might.
#14
deathlessjuan
May 01, 2009 18:53:13 Not sure what you mean. Brain too tired to decipher lack of punctuation (not insulting you, just tired).

blink dog, giant eagle, giant owl, pegasus, or unicorn are all magical beasts and this particular feats allows you to wildshape into them. It also allows you to apply celestial template to any animal form you can normally take (without the feat).

Celestial template: "Animals or vermin with this template become magical beasts,"

Effectively, this allows you to wildshape into magical beasts (but only certain ones, as any other are left up to DM fiat) and use their supernatural and extraordinary abilities.

EDIT: This is pretty funny. Effectively a Druid can smite evil a number times per day equal to her wild shape ability. Um... I can just imagine someone making a druid that can do a charging smite in animal form now. >.< Oh no...
#15
risner
May 07, 2009 16:23:06
since this came out before Mmof that it may appear to some that it wasnt animal to be specific it was more of animal because thats all you can do.

Doesn't really matter for RAW purposes. If it limits it to animals, then even a MoMF who can become a Beholder can't use any of the features of the Exalted Wild Shape because they only work on Animals (and some more Magical Beasts.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 flawless_p May 01, 2009 14:03:08	I was reading over the feat, Exalted Wild shape pg. 42 of the Book of Exalted Deeds. Its prerequisites are wild shape class feature, wild shaping class of 8th level it allows you to add the celestial template to any form you take as well as access to all the supernatural and extraordinary abilities of that form. Since the master of many forms class feature is based off of wild shape and is not its own separate ability(A master of many forms knows how to use her wild shape ability to assume a wider range of forms.) So that means that at 9th level a wild shaping character could take that feat and run around using a celestial beholder with eye rays and antimagic cone.... So did I do good? Or am I horribly mistaken?
#2 deathlessjuan May 01, 2009 14:15:39	Good loophole. Though I think that was only meant to allow you to use the supernatural and extraordinary abilities that the template gave you. This is the the CO board though, RAW is king. However, being exalted has some very hefty roleplaying costs. Unless you are very familiar with how good and evil work in the D&D universe, I would highly recommend you stay away from the exalted feats. Good and evil are black and white in D&D and it only takes one evil act to strip you of your feats.
#3 phaedrusxy May 01, 2009 14:20:14	Wow... that's pretty crazy. I'd have to look at the feat to see the exact wording, but if it is worded the way you say, then yeah, it would work.
#4 flawless_p May 01, 2009 14:52:08	Good loophole. Though I think that was only meant to allow you to use the supernatural and extraordinary abilities that the template gave you. This is the the CO board though, RAW is king. However, being exalted has some very hefty roleplaying costs. Unless you are very familiar with how good and evil work in the D&D universe, I would highly recommend you stay away from the exalted feats. Good and evil are black and white in D&D and it only takes one evil act to strip you of your feats. But even if you do something evil you can still atone for it and get your feats back, the only exalted feats that can't be atoned are the vows. Wow... that's pretty crazy. I'd have to look at the feat to see the exact wording, but if it is worded the way you say, then yeah, it would work. I would post it word for word but I don't know if it would be allowed per board rules
#5 phaedrusxy May 01, 2009 14:55:14	It's allowed. It's called "fair use".
#6 darkpawn May 01, 2009 14:57:06	Bah, Planar Shepherds' laugh at your Masters of Many Forms. ;)
#7 gryfter May 01, 2009 15:09:50	Bah, Planar Shepherds' laugh at your Masters of Many Forms. ;) From the "utterly banned" pile in the corner.
#8 flawless_p May 01, 2009 15:13:40	Exalted Wild Shape[Exalted, Wild] Benifit: You can use your wild shape abilityto turn yourself into a blink dog, giant eagle, giant owl, pegasus, or unicorn. You can also turn into a celestial verson of any animal you could normally transform into.(At the DM's discretion, other magical beast forms might be availible to you. In general, only creatures of CR 3 or lower are possible.) You gain the extraordinary and supernatural abilites of the creature. This ability counts as the use of your wild shape ability and functions the same way.
#9 phaedrusxy May 01, 2009 15:17:52	Exalted Wild Shape [Exalted, Wild] Benefit: You can use your wild shape ability to turn yourself into a blink dog, giant eagle, giant owl, pegasus, or unicorn. You can also turn into a celestial verson of any animal you could normally transform into.(At the DM's discretion, other magical beast forms might be availible to you. In general, only creatures of CR 3 or lower are possible.) You gain the extraordinary and supernatural abilites of the creature. This ability counts as the use of your wild shape ability and functions the same way. I think the underlined parts actually shoot this down. The first one says it is specific for the forms listed, or animals. The second part says you gain abilities from the creatures listed in this feat only, basically. It's obviously not RAI, and I think the RAW is pretty shaky, too.
#10 flawless_p May 01, 2009 15:25:59	I think the underlined parts actually shoot this down. The first one says it is specific for the forms listed, or animals. The second part says you gain abilities from the creatures listed in this feat only, basically. It's obviously not RAI, and I think the RAW is pretty shaky, too. Well it was fun while it lasted, either way I think the supernatural abilities part is for any form assumed because it would have been in parenthesis with the other stuff otherwise. I think if I play with my usual DM i'll get away with it but most people prolly wont allow it. I guess i'll have to play a good guy mmof next time i play and see what he decides.
#11 dr_rocktopus May 01, 2009 15:44:53	I guess the question is what the heck is an animal? Is there perhaps an errata for the second sentence though? I know it's supposed to refer to the list of animals, but as written the antecedents are unclear enough that I found it pretty compelling on a re-read. If I didn't know what I do about the game, I might as a more naive person read it in the fashion flawless_p suggests.
#12 deathlessjuan May 01, 2009 16:20:23	I guess the question is what the heck is an animal? Is there perhaps an errata for the second sentence though? No need for an errata. An animal is any creature with the 'Animal' type.
#13 flawless_p May 01, 2009 18:03:43	No need for an errata. An animal is any creature with the 'Animal' type. I think what he means is that since this came out before Mmof that it may appear to some that it wasnt animal to be specific it was more of animal because thats all you can do. not saying thats how i read it just how some others might.
#14 deathlessjuan May 01, 2009 18:53:13	Not sure what you mean. Brain too tired to decipher lack of punctuation (not insulting you, just tired). blink dog, giant eagle, giant owl, pegasus, or unicorn are all magical beasts and this particular feats allows you to wildshape into them. It also allows you to apply celestial template to any animal form you can normally take (without the feat). Celestial template: "Animals or vermin with this template become magical beasts," Effectively, this allows you to wildshape into magical beasts (but only certain ones, as any other are left up to DM fiat) and use their supernatural and extraordinary abilities. EDIT: This is pretty funny. Effectively a Druid can smite evil a number times per day equal to her wild shape ability. Um... I can just imagine someone making a druid that can do a charging smite in animal form now. >.< Oh no...
#15 risner May 07, 2009 16:23:06	since this came out before Mmof that it may appear to some that it wasnt animal to be specific it was more of animal because thats all you can do. Doesn't really matter for RAW purposes. If it limits it to animals, then even a MoMF who can become a Beholder can't use any of the features of the Exalted Wild Shape because they only work on Animals (and some more Magical Beasts.)