Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pimpsuperman86 Oct 25, 2009 13:17:57	Hey, I found this character to be interesting and then found a thread that showed he was summoning monsters via the bone(skeletal) template in the book of vile darkness. I was thinking he was using an equivalent level like a lvl 9 could summon a lvl 10 equivalent monster using the template. But he was summoning monsters that were way above his character level. He was summoning skybleeders (fiend folio) and sun giants(monster manual 2) using the skeletal template, but this is way to high of levels. Was he downgrading the monsters and if so how would you downgrade the special abilities? Here are the links to the thread and a thread discussion summoning undead using the skeletal template. Any help would be appreciated.   Master of Shrouds build(second post on page) community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...     Skeletal Template to summon any monster via summon undead. www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-ru...
#2 phaedrusxy Oct 25, 2009 14:06:22	I was using an older version of Summon Undead that was only limited by size, not hit dice. The latest versions of those spells are in the Spell Compendium, and they are greatly nerfed.
#3 lormador Oct 26, 2009 6:03:35	Ahem, I can't recommend using the old version of Summon Undead. I think some lich at Wizards must have written those for his personal aggrandizement, or as some kind of trap or curse. Who knows. Even the new version, in Spell Compendium, is a little stronger than Summon Monster. Summon Undead II is the real jewel, for the Owlbear skeleton.
#4 phaedrusxy Oct 26, 2009 10:06:33	Yeah... that pretty much puts anything from SM2 to shame, doesn't it? SNA2 comes closer, but I still think the owlbear skelton wins by a bit. The only one that really competes is the hippogriff, because it can fly at a speed of 100 and make a dive attack.
#5 lormador Oct 26, 2009 20:13:31	Indeed, the Hippogriff is a good entry. Though I think 1d3 Wolves from SNA 2 is competitive with the Owlbear Skeleton on a good roll. Summon Undead III and IV are playable too, for the troll skeleton and wyern zombie respectively, but the Nature's Allies put them in the shade. Summon Undead V is a turkey unless one is trying to build an army of shadows.
#6 pimpsuperman86 Oct 28, 2009 13:48:46	Thanks for the adivce and I will considered when making it. I had one other question pertaining to the bab buff PhaedrusX. In your post for the lvl 10 contest you had 19 attack bonus. I get everything except the 10 bab buffed. I get the divine favor, power, spiked, and aid spells, but what is the last buff that you add to your base attack.
#7 phaedrusxy Oct 28, 2009 15:31:47	Divine Power makes your BAB equal to your character level. You should also add the Ebon Eyes spell so he can see through the No Light cantrip. And then add a Ring of Darkhidden, so he is invisible to Darkvision. The combination will make him invisible to anything less than True Seeing or magic that specifically lets you see through magical darkness (like what devils have). He'll also be inside a cloud of magical darkness that he and all of his undead can see through, but which creatures without Darkvision can't. And it only costs you a cantrip, a 1st level spell, and a 2000 gp ring.
#8 pimpsuperman86 Oct 28, 2009 17:04:40	thanks for the advice
#9 malisteen Nov 01, 2009 9:56:53	Actually most of the current Summon Undead spells are awesome. Owlbear Skeleton, Ghast, Wyvern Zombie, Mummy, Vampire Spawn: all decent fighters at the levels you first gain access to them. Shadow: this guarantees you access to shadows.  At level 10, summon a shadow.  Have it kill a humanoid.  The original shadow vanishes back to it's home and the dead humanoid rises as a new shadow ready to be controlled via rebuke undead.  You can now have your permanent shadow servant create new shadows under its control in an endless chain.  Crush the world under the ghostly heels of your etherial army! Allips: Deal Wisdom Damage.  Great to prepare a monster for any Will save spell you want to cast on them.  This is sadly much more effective for arcane casters with access to Magic Jar.   Maximized Shivering Touch to imobilize any dragon, summoned allips to eat their wisdom, and magic jar to steal their body.  Win?
#10 phaedrusxy Nov 01, 2009 11:42:23	Actually most of the current Summon Undead spells are awesome. I agree that they are still good. Better than Summon Monster usually and even Summon Nature's Ally often. But they're still weaker. They were downright broken before.