Master spellthief making a case to steal and store higher level spells - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Master spellthief making a case to steal and store higher level spells

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
cragghunter
Jun 17, 2009 23:19:22 Ok so we have seen true shinken's Master spellthief guide if you haven't
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=992549 go read be enlightened
or see the secret that was stolen from the spellthiefs .
I chose to make new thread because this might get long.

I was reading the spellthief ability to steal spells (Cadv pg16)
and noticed that the ability to store spells is part of the steal spell ability
not a separate ability as written there is no separation of the text
as there is for most other abilities that I have seen for example
a wizards spell casting and spell book are separate
even though they are part of the same mechanic.

Then I read steal spells just like x level spellthief in Mater spellthief description (Cs pg79)
and just like x level means to me all of the ability can be used
not just the stealing part .

I feel that the not being able to know what spells
an enemy caster has which makes stealing spells
totally random and that no higher level caster
than you would ever let you get close enough to
steal spells makes storage and stealing of spells
not as powerful as it seems.

Please feel free to wade in with your unbiased or biased opinion
or shoot holes all through my case.

I look forward to seeing other peoples interpretations .
#2
jaronk
Jun 18, 2009 4:16:48 Steal Spells may be the overall ability, but stealing and storing spells are two different things. Master Spellthief lets you steal any level of spell, but doesn't help with storage. This is fine... it means you can't just dip Spellthief for one level to gain pretty much the entire class... but you can multiclass a bit. Something like Spellthief 9/Mindbender 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Earth Dreamer 5 can steal (and store) up to 9th level spells, and then do rather impressive things with them, all while being an incredibly good scout.

JaronK
#3
cragghunter
Jun 18, 2009 12:58:29 But see they are the same class feature the way it is written just like spell lists are part of the class feature spell casting .

When you gain the ability to cast higher level spells in that class you gain the spells on that list therefore when you gain the ability to steal higher level spells
you gain storage with it .

At least that is the way I am seeing it if ,you could give an example in the rules were this is not the case I would like to see it.

And thanks for your input it is appreciated.
#4
nice2meetu
Jun 18, 2009 14:53:40 http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-807626

Customer Service:
(...)
Even though he can steal higher level spells from opponents, he is still limited to the maximum spell levels he can store for his own use (which is based solely on his Spellthief class level).
(...)

#5
cragghunter
Jun 18, 2009 21:47:29
http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-807626

Customer Service:

Is there another precedent that would support this ,
customer service is not a very , I don't know how to put it politely ,
reliable source , at least at that time what I saw was ask a question enough
and you could get the answer you wanted or a different response .

And this seems to go against the way the class features works .
I could see if the feat was written with only increases the steal spell level not storage like practiced spellcaster is written ,but it is not and the storage part is part of the class feature steal spells for the spell thief.
#6
nice2meetu
Jun 18, 2009 22:34:42 I don't think that a bunch of power-thriving CO board members, like me, are better suited to clear this topic. I, for example, tend to read Rules As I Want Them To Be So My Character Pwns, Nyeah.
I would prefer the spellthief the way you describe, but then I would possibly only dip 7 levels as a maximum and forget about the entire rest of that class.

The same argument for custserv holds for people here - is the CO boards a better resource? The big difference is the legitmiation - they have their custserv insignia. I have none.
It is surely more fun to discuss on such a topic, but this one has been beaten to death, including nukes called custserv^^

If you don't like it, houserule it; D&D is your game since the day you bought it. No book can impose on you how you have to play your game.
But make a backup character for conventions. Conventions are custserv-ruling terrain, except you ask nicely and innocently (really helps if you are cute and pose a little stupid).

Back to topic:
Benefit: Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes (...) for the purpose of determining what level of spell you can steal.

That's it. It does not advance the "steal spell" class feature. The feat is very specific on only to stack for determining "level of spell you can steal".
Want to steal spells primarily? Play a spellthief. Want to void spells not caring to use them? Play a spellthief dip with master spellthief.
#7
cragghunter
Jun 18, 2009 23:00:10
I don't think that a bunch of power-thriving CO board members, like me, are better suited to clear this topic. I, for example, tend to read Rules As I Want Them To Be So My Character Pwns, Nyeah.
I would prefer the spellthief the way you describe, but then I would possibly only dip 7 levels as a maximum and forget about the entire rest of that class.

The same argument for custserv holds for people here - is the CO boards a better resource? The big difference is the legitmiation - they have their custserv insignia. I have none.
It is surely more fun to discuss on such a topic, but this one has been beaten to death, including nukes called custserv^^

If you don't like it, houserule it; D&D is your game since the day you bought it. No book can impose on you how you have to play your game.
But make a backup character for conventions. Conventions are custserv-ruling terrain, except you ask nicely and innocently (really helps if you are cute and pose a little stupid).

Back to topic:

That's it. It does not advance the "steal spell" class feature. The feat is very specific on only to stack for determining "level of spell you can steal".
Want to steal spells primarily? Play a spellthief. Want to void spells not caring to use them? Play a spellthief dip with master spellthief.

A little snippy ?

Any way thanks for pointing the passage out I know I have read it and missed that and now agree that it does not grant storage .

As far as coers being better at judging a rule I think they generally are and will give a better explanation as to why it doesn't work, just look at your own posts for an example,or will debate it till they come to a general consensus that works.

I have only seen three major threads discussing this and none of them gave the explanation that would satisfy me, I wouldn't call that beating to death.

Thanks for your input and showing me the light .

Oh and I don't do cute very well so I am stuck with asking explanations for why .
#8
nice2meetu
Jun 18, 2009 23:07:52
A little snippy ?

That was not my intention.
If I am sniffy, I am not reflecting of myself^^

Are you French by the way? I've seen you use spacings in front of punctation marks.
#9
cragghunter
Jun 18, 2009 23:20:19
That was not my intention.
If I am sniffy, I am not reflecting of myself^^

Are you French by the way? I've seen you use spacings in front of punctation marks.

No I am not french but I will taunt you!
You mother was a goat and your father smelled of elderberries .
#10
nice2meetu
Jun 18, 2009 23:24:26 Well, then we don't conserve in French.

Bonne nuit, et a+

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 cragghunter Jun 17, 2009 23:19:22	Ok so we have seen true shinken's Master spellthief guide if you haven't http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=992549 go read be enlightened or see the secret that was stolen from the spellthiefs . I chose to make new thread because this might get long. I was reading the spellthief ability to steal spells (Cadv pg16) and noticed that the ability to store spells is part of the steal spell ability not a separate ability as written there is no separation of the text as there is for most other abilities that I have seen for example a wizards spell casting and spell book are separate even though they are part of the same mechanic. Then I read steal spells just like x level spellthief in Mater spellthief description (Cs pg79) and just like x level means to me all of the ability can be used not just the stealing part . I feel that the not being able to know what spells an enemy caster has which makes stealing spells totally random and that no higher level caster than you would ever let you get close enough to steal spells makes storage and stealing of spells not as powerful as it seems. Please feel free to wade in with your unbiased or biased opinion or shoot holes all through my case. I look forward to seeing other peoples interpretations .
#2 jaronk Jun 18, 2009 4:16:48	Steal Spells may be the overall ability, but stealing and storing spells are two different things. Master Spellthief lets you steal any level of spell, but doesn't help with storage. This is fine... it means you can't just dip Spellthief for one level to gain pretty much the entire class... but you can multiclass a bit. Something like Spellthief 9/Mindbender 1/Shadowcraft Mage 5/Earth Dreamer 5 can steal (and store) up to 9th level spells, and then do rather impressive things with them, all while being an incredibly good scout. JaronK
#3 cragghunter Jun 18, 2009 12:58:29	But see they are the same class feature the way it is written just like spell lists are part of the class feature spell casting . When you gain the ability to cast higher level spells in that class you gain the spells on that list therefore when you gain the ability to steal higher level spells you gain storage with it . At least that is the way I am seeing it if ,you could give an example in the rules were this is not the case I would like to see it. And thanks for your input it is appreciated.
#4 nice2meetu Jun 18, 2009 14:53:40	http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-807626 Customer Service: (...) Even though he can steal higher level spells from opponents, he is still limited to the maximum spell levels he can store for his own use (which is based solely on his Spellthief class level). (...)
#5 cragghunter Jun 18, 2009 21:47:29	http://forums.gleemax.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-807626 Customer Service: Is there another precedent that would support this , customer service is not a very , I don't know how to put it politely , reliable source , at least at that time what I saw was ask a question enough and you could get the answer you wanted or a different response . And this seems to go against the way the class features works . I could see if the feat was written with only increases the steal spell level not storage like practiced spellcaster is written ,but it is not and the storage part is part of the class feature steal spells for the spell thief.
#6 nice2meetu Jun 18, 2009 22:34:42	I don't think that a bunch of power-thriving CO board members, like me, are better suited to clear this topic. I, for example, tend to read Rules As I Want Them To Be So My Character Pwns, Nyeah. I would prefer the spellthief the way you describe, but then I would possibly only dip 7 levels as a maximum and forget about the entire rest of that class. The same argument for custserv holds for people here - is the CO boards a better resource? The big difference is the legitmiation - they have their custserv insignia. I have none. It is surely more fun to discuss on such a topic, but this one has been beaten to death, including nukes called custserv^^ If you don't like it, houserule it; D&D is your game since the day you bought it. No book can impose on you how you have to play your game. But make a backup character for conventions. Conventions are custserv-ruling terrain, except you ask nicely and innocently (really helps if you are cute and pose a little stupid). Back to topic: Benefit: Your spellthief levels stack with levels of other arcane spellcaster classes (...) for the purpose of determining what level of spell you can steal. That's it. It does not advance the "steal spell" class feature. The feat is very specific on only to stack for determining "level of spell you can steal". Want to steal spells primarily? Play a spellthief. Want to void spells not caring to use them? Play a spellthief dip with master spellthief.
#7 cragghunter Jun 18, 2009 23:00:10	I don't think that a bunch of power-thriving CO board members, like me, are better suited to clear this topic. I, for example, tend to read Rules As I Want Them To Be So My Character Pwns, Nyeah. I would prefer the spellthief the way you describe, but then I would possibly only dip 7 levels as a maximum and forget about the entire rest of that class. The same argument for custserv holds for people here - is the CO boards a better resource? The big difference is the legitmiation - they have their custserv insignia. I have none. It is surely more fun to discuss on such a topic, but this one has been beaten to death, including nukes called custserv^^ If you don't like it, houserule it; D&D is your game since the day you bought it. No book can impose on you how you have to play your game. But make a backup character for conventions. Conventions are custserv-ruling terrain, except you ask nicely and innocently (really helps if you are cute and pose a little stupid). Back to topic: That's it. It does not advance the "steal spell" class feature. The feat is very specific on only to stack for determining "level of spell you can steal". Want to steal spells primarily? Play a spellthief. Want to void spells not caring to use them? Play a spellthief dip with master spellthief. A little snippy ? Any way thanks for pointing the passage out I know I have read it and missed that and now agree that it does not grant storage . As far as coers being better at judging a rule I think they generally are and will give a better explanation as to why it doesn't work, just look at your own posts for an example,or will debate it till they come to a general consensus that works. I have only seen three major threads discussing this and none of them gave the explanation that would satisfy me, I wouldn't call that beating to death. Thanks for your input and showing me the light . Oh and I don't do cute very well so I am stuck with asking explanations for why .
#8 nice2meetu Jun 18, 2009 23:07:52	A little snippy ? That was not my intention. If I am sniffy, I am not reflecting of myself^^ Are you French by the way? I've seen you use spacings in front of punctation marks.
#9 cragghunter Jun 18, 2009 23:20:19	That was not my intention. If I am sniffy, I am not reflecting of myself^^ Are you French by the way? I've seen you use spacings in front of punctation marks. No I am not french but I will taunt you! You mother was a goat and your father smelled of elderberries .
#10 nice2meetu Jun 18, 2009 23:24:26	Well, then we don't conserve in French. Bonne nuit, et a+