Master Thrower Help - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Master Thrower Help

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Di_Bastet
May 21, 2010 7:56:03 Hello people. My GF is going to play a Master Thrower in the next game. We're beggining to play at level 5, and the build is supposed to hold itself for now and until level 10. Maybe the campaign will go beyong, but as the DM (one of my usual players as we're between my big campaigns) has a history of making short campaigns, probably not.

So, her build is pretty clear and pretty solid too. We use PF, all WoTC books and all dragons (the hard part is getting them), some house-rules and UA, and some community material. She's going Human Fighter-Monk (Homebrew: Monks have full BAB) for the many feats required for the build (UA variant combat styles, using the Invisible Eye for the feats, Targeteer Fighter (dragon #310), and one flaw).

She's got the very basic things (Point blank, precise, weapon focus -we use UA weapon groups-), some Dragon, like Dead Eye (dragon compendium, errated), Deadly Aim (targeteer fighter), some community homebrew like two weapon fighting (we use a community homebrew: TWF gives you one attack wih the offhand weapon per attack you have with high BAB. It's like having ITWF and GTWF and some kind of Supreme Two Weapon Fighting or whatever into one only feat), and a stance from that Falling Star martial school called Comet Shower Stance (threatens 10 feet with ranged weapons).

The idea about all this is that she's supposed to be a basic MT at this level, throw 2 weapons for now (no space for rapid shot yet), then next level grab palm throw and with the 6/1 BAB throw 6 weapons, then flurry, then rapid shot, then... well, you all know where this goes.

For now she's happy with the 1d2+13 she's got (+6 Dex deadly aim, +6 Dex Dead Eye, +1 point blank), but not very happy with the 10ft range (the Stance keeps it reasonable) and the fact that she'll have to carry a hundred shuriken to last an adventuring day. I can understand that, since this will get outta hand sooner than later...

ASo m y point is: Besides any other idea of feats beyond 5th level (7th level slot will go to rapid shot, but 9th, 11th, 13th etc are free yet), any good idea on magical or mundane gear? We're mostly exhausted of thinking about it. While she's having fun with magical clothes that give social bonuses (it's a urban campaign, and the char skills are basically social), I'm with the ungrateful job of finding something that allows her to have more shurikens. Of course, there are the Bags, and the Heward's one too. But it still isn't something like this. There's the Gloves that you pt weapons on, but we need a bigger capacity... Then there's the gauntlet of infinite blades (MIC), but it's a swift action.

Is there some kind of unlimited shuriken thing? Or dagger? Or whatever? Or even if not, how much do you think it would cost a similar gauntlet, but one that was a free action? How about a free action but without the 3-charges-that-make-magical-daggers thing?

Again: Level 5, going until 10 or more (fighter-monk and full master thrower), all wotc books and dragons allowed, some selected 3rd party too (hyperconcious ftw), Pathfinder, and selected forum homebrew and ideas from forum members. Party is: A Duskblade 1 / Archivist 2 / Master os Shrouds 2, with divine metamagic persistent spell (lore of the gods) and knowledge devotion, centered on party helping persist (in the future mass vigor, wrath of the faithful, recitation, etc); a busty Warlock 2 - Sorcerer 3 going into Eldritch Theurge centered on debuffing and giving negative stats; a pirate that is an elan Telepath 5 going into Thrallherd, specialist in save or die and some BC; a sun elf Wizard 5 with that Dragon variant that you lose your familiar but applies a chosen aligment descriptor to all your spells, that then uses spel focus good, distilled joy, those special holy symbols of complete champion for +1 CL and all that cheese, specialized on fire damaging spells with easy metamagic and equivalents for Twin spell and arcane thesis and yada yada, going into Mage of the Arcane Order; and finally a Bard 5, with song of the heart, words of creation and cheesed out inspire courage, possibly with dragonfire inspiration. We have blasting (wizard), buffing (archivist, bard), save or die and BC (psion), debuffing (warlock), some passable tanking (archivist....[???] and his shadows), so my GF is just going into pure damage.

What can you guys think?
#2
phaedrusxy
May 21, 2010 8:35:24 I have a similar character, except I went with a marrulurk for the race. I'm headed towards MT too, though, and have many of the same elements in my build.

I'd suggest halfling skiprocks instead of shuriken, as they can each hit two adjacent targets per throw. Or at least you can carry both those and shuriken.

As for carrying them, see if you can modify the Efficient Quiver.
#3
Di_Bastet
May 21, 2010 9:10:49 Man, I'm so tired of helping her making this build that I didin't thought of modifying the elhonna's quiver! And the skiprock seems fine too. Supposedly my GF will take the two (she says "thanks guy" and sends you a kiss), since as another huse rule, monks learn the Basic Weapons group plus any two weapons they choose (even exotic).
#4
phaedrusxy
May 21, 2010 12:42:17
Man, I'm so tired of helping her making this build that I didin't thought of modifying the elhonna's quiver! And the skiprock seems fine too. Supposedly my GF will take the two (she says "thanks guy" and sends you a kiss), since as another huse rule, monks learn the Basic Weapons group plus any two weapons they choose (even exotic).

The targeteer variant already gets two exotic ranged weapon proficiencies of your choice. So you don't even need the house rule.

#5
Di_Bastet
May 21, 2010 19:48:06 That's cool of the targeteer, but it isn't needed. This "houserule" thing is for those outside our campaign and group to understand. The monk is consolidated in our own player's guide like this already for sme two years now. Figther gives 4 weapon groups, and the fighter archetypes don't change nor grant more or less than these. But thanks anyway.

Anyone else another good idea I might have overlooked?
#6
aarkonn
Jan 08, 2011 16:51:41
Have a closer look at the shuriken. Note that is states it is a thrown weapon and therefore not subject to destruction or the masterwork 50/50 as is the case with ammo. They are only considered ammunition for the purpose of drawing them for use which is a free action. Also, shurikens are thrown 3 at a time, hence the low damage for each. As for not wanting 2 have to carry around 100's of them, simply have 5 sets (5 each) enchanted with returning which will cost you a buttload of gold but will be worth it when u gain the full benefit. So here's the build:
Race: Human (for the 2 starting feats)
Start off with the Ninja so you wont have 2 waste a feat on exotic weapons to get the shuriken and so u can spend 4 of your 1st level skill points on sleight of hand to meet the requirment for the class.
1st level feats: Point blank shot & precise shot.
2nd level: cross over to fighter and you will get the fighter bonus feat: Take rapid shot
3rd: stick with fighter and you get another 2 feats at this level: Take weapon focus (shuriken) and Far shot to double the range on your shurikens to 20'.
4th: Stick with fighter till 6th level to get some nify extra feats as a fighter. I recommend weapon specialization at 4th level then at 6th, go with 2 wpn fighting. You'll understand the benefit to this soon.
now at 7th level you're ready to go Master thrower: For your master thrower trick shot, go with double toss.
This is where the 2 wpn fighting feat pays off. Now, with having double toss, 2 weapon fighting, and rapid shot, you can now throw ... count them .... 12 ... yes ... 12 shurikens (4 attacks with dex of 16 your bonuses will be +7/+7/+2/+2).... or just using rapid toss u can still get 3 attacks (+9/+9/+4) and within 30' you get to add your strenght bonus 2 each individual star. So lets add this up ... 12 stars with a minimum of 1 damage for the weapon itself, then add any strength bonus to each, then the +2 damage for weapon specialization, +1 damage for being thrown within 30' (point blank shot), and finally any enchantment bonus for the weapon ... say +1 returning.... what's the total minimum damage for a single full round attack?? try.... Wpn dam = 12+ (Str+1)+12 (WSP)+24 (PBS) +12 (enchantment +1) +12.... for a whopping bare minimum damage (so long as all 4 attacks hit) minimum of 72 hit points!!!! How can you beat that!! ....and for only being 7th level .... and just for overkill ... y not add poison 2 each of your stars 2 have them have 2 make 12 fort saves .... even with a weak poison, 1 of their saves is bound to fail!! u're a walking death squad ... that's not even adding in the 1d6 you'll get for the sudden strike damage you get for being a ninja when u catch them flat footed!!! .... How about them apples .... YOU ARE NOW A SHURIKEN GOD!!!!!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Di_Bastet May 21, 2010 7:56:03	Hello people. My GF is going to play a Master Thrower in the next game. We're beggining to play at level 5, and the build is supposed to hold itself for now and until level 10. Maybe the campaign will go beyong, but as the DM (one of my usual players as we're between my big campaigns) has a history of making short campaigns, probably not. So, her build is pretty clear and pretty solid too. We use PF, all WoTC books and all dragons (the hard part is getting them), some house-rules and UA, and some community material. She's going Human Fighter-Monk (Homebrew: Monks have full BAB) for the many feats required for the build (UA variant combat styles, using the Invisible Eye for the feats, Targeteer Fighter (dragon #310), and one flaw). She's got the very basic things (Point blank, precise, weapon focus -we use UA weapon groups-), some Dragon, like Dead Eye (dragon compendium, errated), Deadly Aim (targeteer fighter), some community homebrew like two weapon fighting (we use a community homebrew: TWF gives you one attack wih the offhand weapon per attack you have with high BAB. It's like having ITWF and GTWF and some kind of Supreme Two Weapon Fighting or whatever into one only feat), and a stance from that Falling Star martial school called Comet Shower Stance (threatens 10 feet with ranged weapons). The idea about all this is that she's supposed to be a basic MT at this level, throw 2 weapons for now (no space for rapid shot yet), then next level grab palm throw and with the 6/1 BAB throw 6 weapons, then flurry, then rapid shot, then... well, you all know where this goes. For now she's happy with the 1d2+13 she's got (+6 Dex deadly aim, +6 Dex Dead Eye, +1 point blank), but not very happy with the 10ft range (the Stance keeps it reasonable) and the fact that she'll have to carry a hundred shuriken to last an adventuring day. I can understand that, since this will get outta hand sooner than later... ASo m y point is: Besides any other idea of feats beyond 5th level (7th level slot will go to rapid shot, but 9th, 11th, 13th etc are free yet), any good idea on magical or mundane gear? We're mostly exhausted of thinking about it. While she's having fun with magical clothes that give social bonuses (it's a urban campaign, and the char skills are basically social), I'm with the ungrateful job of finding something that allows her to have more shurikens. Of course, there are the Bags, and the Heward's one too. But it still isn't something like this. There's the Gloves that you pt weapons on, but we need a bigger capacity... Then there's the gauntlet of infinite blades (MIC), but it's a swift action. Is there some kind of unlimited shuriken thing? Or dagger? Or whatever? Or even if not, how much do you think it would cost a similar gauntlet, but one that was a free action? How about a free action but without the 3-charges-that-make-magical-daggers thing? Again: Level 5, going until 10 or more (fighter-monk and full master thrower), all wotc books and dragons allowed, some selected 3rd party too (hyperconcious ftw), Pathfinder, and selected forum homebrew and ideas from forum members. Party is: A Duskblade 1 / Archivist 2 / Master os Shrouds 2, with divine metamagic persistent spell (lore of the gods) and knowledge devotion, centered on party helping persist (in the future mass vigor, wrath of the faithful, recitation, etc); a busty Warlock 2 - Sorcerer 3 going into Eldritch Theurge centered on debuffing and giving negative stats; a pirate that is an elan Telepath 5 going into Thrallherd, specialist in save or die and some BC; a sun elf Wizard 5 with that Dragon variant that you lose your familiar but applies a chosen aligment descriptor to all your spells, that then uses spel focus good, distilled joy, those special holy symbols of complete champion for +1 CL and all that cheese, specialized on fire damaging spells with easy metamagic and equivalents for Twin spell and arcane thesis and yada yada, going into Mage of the Arcane Order; and finally a Bard 5, with song of the heart, words of creation and cheesed out inspire courage, possibly with dragonfire inspiration. We have blasting (wizard), buffing (archivist, bard), save or die and BC (psion), debuffing (warlock), some passable tanking (archivist....[???] and his shadows), so my GF is just going into pure damage. What can you guys think?
#2 phaedrusxy May 21, 2010 8:35:24	I have a similar character, except I went with a marrulurk for the race. I'm headed towards MT too, though, and have many of the same elements in my build. I'd suggest halfling skiprocks instead of shuriken, as they can each hit two adjacent targets per throw. Or at least you can carry both those and shuriken. As for carrying them, see if you can modify the Efficient Quiver.
#3 Di_Bastet May 21, 2010 9:10:49	Man, I'm so tired of helping her making this build that I didin't thought of modifying the elhonna's quiver! And the skiprock seems fine too. Supposedly my GF will take the two (she says "thanks guy" and sends you a kiss), since as another huse rule, monks learn the Basic Weapons group plus any two weapons they choose (even exotic).
#4 phaedrusxy May 21, 2010 12:42:17	Man, I'm so tired of helping her making this build that I didin't thought of modifying the elhonna's quiver! And the skiprock seems fine too. Supposedly my GF will take the two (she says "thanks guy" and sends you a kiss), since as another huse rule, monks learn the Basic Weapons group plus any two weapons they choose (even exotic). The targeteer variant already gets two exotic ranged weapon proficiencies of your choice. So you don't even need the house rule.
#5 Di_Bastet May 21, 2010 19:48:06	That's cool of the targeteer, but it isn't needed. This "houserule" thing is for those outside our campaign and group to understand. The monk is consolidated in our own player's guide like this already for sme two years now. Figther gives 4 weapon groups, and the fighter archetypes don't change nor grant more or less than these. But thanks anyway. Anyone else another good idea I might have overlooked?
#6 aarkonn Jan 08, 2011 16:51:41	Have a closer look at the shuriken. Note that is states it is a thrown weapon and therefore not subject to destruction or the masterwork 50/50 as is the case with ammo. They are only considered ammunition for the purpose of drawing them for use which is a free action. Also, shurikens are thrown 3 at a time, hence the low damage for each. As for not wanting 2 have to carry around 100's of them, simply have 5 sets (5 each) enchanted with returning which will cost you a buttload of gold but will be worth it when u gain the full benefit. So here's the build: Race: Human (for the 2 starting feats) Start off with the Ninja so you wont have 2 waste a feat on exotic weapons to get the shuriken and so u can spend 4 of your 1st level skill points on sleight of hand to meet the requirment for the class. 1st level feats: Point blank shot & precise shot. 2nd level: cross over to fighter and you will get the fighter bonus feat: Take rapid shot 3rd: stick with fighter and you get another 2 feats at this level: Take weapon focus (shuriken) and Far shot to double the range on your shurikens to 20'. 4th: Stick with fighter till 6th level to get some nify extra feats as a fighter. I recommend weapon specialization at 4th level then at 6th, go with 2 wpn fighting. You'll understand the benefit to this soon. now at 7th level you're ready to go Master thrower: For your master thrower trick shot, go with double toss. This is where the 2 wpn fighting feat pays off. Now, with having double toss, 2 weapon fighting, and rapid shot, you can now throw ... count them .... 12 ... yes ... 12 shurikens (4 attacks with dex of 16 your bonuses will be +7/+7/+2/+2).... or just using rapid toss u can still get 3 attacks (+9/+9/+4) and within 30' you get to add your strenght bonus 2 each individual star. So lets add this up ... 12 stars with a minimum of 1 damage for the weapon itself, then add any strength bonus to each, then the +2 damage for weapon specialization, +1 damage for being thrown within 30' (point blank shot), and finally any enchantment bonus for the weapon ... say +1 returning.... what's the total minimum damage for a single full round attack?? try.... Wpn dam = 12+ (Str+1)+12 (WSP)+24 (PBS) +12 (enchantment +1) +12.... for a whopping bare minimum damage (so long as all 4 attacks hit) minimum of 72 hit points!!!! How can you beat that!! ....and for only being 7th level .... and just for overkill ... y not add poison 2 each of your stars 2 have them have 2 make 12 fort saves .... even with a weak poison, 1 of their saves is bound to fail!! u're a walking death squad ... that's not even adding in the 1d6 you'll get for the sudden strike damage you get for being a ninja when u catch them flat footed!!! .... How about them apples .... YOU ARE NOW A SHURIKEN GOD!!!!!