"Take him my slaves! Drag his soul back to your dark masters!"-Argyll Te'Shea, servant of Pelor and malconvoker
Quote from Complete Scoundrel
THE MALCONVOKER is a prestige class from Complete Scoundrel that specializes in Summon Monster spells and Planar Binding spells.
Entry requirements:
Alignment: Any non-evil.
Skills: Bluff 4 ranks, Knowledge (The planes) 4 ranks.
Languages: Celestial, Infernal
Feats: Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Special: Ability to cast Summon Monster III
The standard concept of the perpetual war between good and evil is cliched to some: a black-and-white vision of reality, suitable only for religious sermonizing. A few who understand the complexity of the battles that rage throughout the planes have taken up a dangerous path, entering into powerful pacts with the foulest abominations of the Lower Planes to turn evil against evil. These daring Summoners are Malconvokers, and they bargain with their lives.
- Complete Scoundrel
First – all Malconvokers should check out these threads:
3.5 summonable creatures thread - This thread breaks down Summon Monster spells, unlike this one, non-core summons are examined and critiqued.
The Summoner’s handbook : A general guide for Summoners of all types. Be adviced not all general summoning advice applies to Malconvokers.
I would like to aknowledge this thread:
Mastering the summoned monster – a comprehensive guide - You won't find much in this thread I haven't covered here. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
The Conjurer's Handbook- not a summoner's thread - but if you are entering Malconvoker through the Conjurer, this can give you a nice guide of spells avaible and feats to consider.
Second: Why should I play a Malconvoker?
Consider looking through your new splatbook. You see a PrC for casters that looses a caster level. Already you think "This better have some great class abilities.", you are ready to turn the page.
The first level ability has a +1 metamagic added to spells for free. You think "That's not enough to make this worthwhile" - if you weren't bored you would have already gone to the next PrC.
The fourth level ability effectively doubles one of your specialty feats. You now think "Still not enough."
The fifth level ability then adds +4 Metamagic to spells for free (thats +5 levels of metamagic for free). You read it again - yes - thats +5 metamagic levels to spells free.
You must have been reading the Malconvoker.
There are many advantages to playing a Summoner, but if you are willing to focus completely on summoning - nothing beats a Malconvoker. You may not have the best HP, BAB, AC, or be as good at the other spells - but when it comes to Summoning - you will be king.
Up to the time I looked at the Malconvoker I was of the opinion that you should never consider a PrC that reduces your spellcasting level. The Malconvoker does this at level 1.
However, level one of the Malconvoker gives an extend spell effect on all Summon Monster spells where you summon evil creatures as long as you beat their sense motive with a bluff (free action bluff)
The fourth level of the Malconvoker gives a +2 to damage on all attacks and +2 HP/HD to any evil creatures which were summoned with the first level ability.
The fifth level of Malconvoker adds an extra creature when you summon an evil creature. That's basically a free Twin Spell. If you use a Summon Monster to summon lesser level creatures, it works out closer to an empower spell (still very good).
If you are a Wizard/Cleric who pops off the occasional Summon Monster spell – this isn’t a worthy trade. If you are a Wizard/Cleric who specializes in Summon Monster spells – this is just too good to pass up.
Third: How many levels should I take?
The Malconvoker is a 9 level PrC. The first 5 levels will focus primarily on Summon Monster spells, the final 4 levels focus more on Planar Binding spells. It is a decent choice for full 9 level progression – but there are options.
The best ability the Malconvoker gets is Infernal Legion at level 5, this makes level 5 an ideal breaking point if you want to pick up some different PrC levels.
Level 6 gives you (IMO) the best Planar Binding ability with Deceitful Bargaining. This gives a decent break point with lots of Summon Monster specialization, and decent boost to Planar Binding.
Levels 7-9 are decent - nothing spectacular, but you aren't losing spellcasting levels either - so it's still solid.
Fourth: Which class should I qualify with?
Which class to choose for qualifying for the Malconvoker:
Red: Very strong choice
Blue: Good choice
Green: Fair choice
Cleric: Not a bad choice if you start with the Summoning domain. You will give up the wizard’s alternate class features in exchange for a better AC and BAB. Take this if Summoning isn’t your only focus. (Actually, one tactic that can be excellent for Cleric/Malconvokers is to use Twin Spell or Repeat Spell metamagic along with Divine Metamagic for extra conjurations. It is a feat hungry build - but by high levels this can add up to quite a few creatures - at least comparable with the Master Specialist 10 option for Conjurers - thank you Sigfried for the suggestion)
Also - there is an alternate class ability in the Planar Handbook for Clerics at level 4 that allows turning of summoned creatures (which could be handy for failed bluff rolls) at a penalty of -3 levs for turning undead. This seems to me like an easy choice.
Wizard: This is my favourite option. Especially when using the various alternate class features which can improve Summon Monster spells. Obviously, you should specialize in Conjurer. If your DM does not allow the Rapid Summoning alternate class feature from UA – go with Cleric or Archavist instead. It is that one option that makes the Wizard shine as a Malconvoker.
Wizard Class Variants to take/not to take:
Focused Specialist: I would not recommend this for most wizards going into high level campaigns, but since you will be memorizing at least 3 Summon Monster spells per level - this is actually a no-brainer. You do have to give up one more spell school (which hurts) - but alternate casting is the secondary purpose of your character.
Enhanced Summoning: You get Augment Summoning as a free feat at first level instead of Scribe Scroll. This is a no-brainer. If you continue Conjurer to level 5, your summons are harder to dispel (+2 caster level check). If you continue to level 10, your Augment Summoning bonuses improve to +6/+6. Feel free to jump ship early on. The first level ability is the best.
Rapid Summoning:This is a must have. Yes, you must sacrifice Immediate Magic (which hurts), but you have no choice. You are a summoner first and foremost. Standard action Summon Monster spells are what makes the Conjurer Summoner better than the Cleric summoner
Spontaneous Summoning:This is a bad option. No need for spontaneous summoning - just memorize it. Your spells lose a whole level by using this variant - definitely not worth it at any level.
Archivist:: This is a pretty strong entry choice. You will be able to cast both Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally (of course none of your Malconvoker abilities will extend to Summon Nature's ally - but your Summoning feats/items will). You will need to take one of the other methods to make your summoning rapid (Feats/magic items). This just means more options when summoning - and options are always good. Dark Knowledge has excellent Synergy with Summoned Creatures.
I think flavor-wise this is also a good option. A very nice mix with Malconvoker.
Wu Jen: Not a bad option. You are looking at less spells to cast then a specialist wizard, and there's no Rapid Spell variant, however, your DM might consider allowing Rapid Spell as an applicable spell secret since it's a 1 level metamagic enhancement. This would have to be houseruled though - because in the RAW it isn't offered.
The most attractive part of the Wu Jen would be the ability to reroll initiative rolls. That can be a big boost for a Summoner. (only if you are using Rapid Metamagic though)
Sorcerer: Can’t qualify until level 7, and since you will be casting the same spell most of the time – spontaneous casting is less of an advantage. (you will actually have less castings than a focused specialist conjurer as well). However, Bluff is a class skill, and CHA will be high – which is an advantage to Bluff and to Planar Binding spells. (Bonzai also points out that Sorcerers can get the summoning domain with a 5th level substitution level in CC. This gives all the spells of the domain and the +2 CL for Conjuration (Summoning) spells). The thing to think about with the sorcerer/wizard choice is this: Do I want the CHA, or the Rapid Summoning? My personal preference is for the standard action castings - but there is definitely a counter-argument to be had.
Other Options: Some other options exist in the Splatbooks (such as favoured soul) – none are particularly better suited than the above.
If you choose one of the non-conjurer options, or your DM does not allow Unearthed Arcana material (Rapid summoning variant in particular). Then take the Rapid spell feat, use Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration) to power it 3 times/day. At higher levels, Arcane Thesis can give you unlimited uses with SM IX and VIII for example.
What NOT to take
(Just because you "can" doesn't mean you "should")
Bard: Yep, the Bard can qualify by level 7. However, you won't get many summon spells per day, you will get lower level summon spells, and you will never get access to Summon Monster VII, VIII, or IX. Buffing abilities aside, this makes the Bard a sub-par summoner.
Beguiler/True Necromancer/Warmage etc: This applies to any arcane caster that does not have Summon Monster III on their casting list. The "trick" of course is to take Arcane Disciple feat with the Summoning Domain which will give access to SM III. Of course you won't get access to SM VI, VIII, or IX - and the rest you can only cast once per day. Always a terrible option.
Fifth: Should I go into another PrC?
What other PrC’s mesh nicely with Malconvoker?
The answer is any that boost Summon Monster/Conjuration/Planar binding.
Thaumaturgist(DMG): Extend spell metamagic on all Summon Monster spells for free is nice (but not huge at high levels)
Master Specialist(CM): The 4th level grants your caster level to HP of summoned creatures, level 10 allows you to quicken 3 standard action spells/day. If you have the Rapid Spell conjurer variant – that’s your Summon Monster spells
Paragnostic Apostle(CC): Can give all your summons Fast Healing
Fatespinner (CA): Have your summoned creature reroll its Sense Motive with "fickle finger of fate", or you could just reroll your Bluff with "resist fate"- or, if necessary, both. Works for opposed CHA rolls for Planar Binding spells too. Furthermore - you can add spin to your Bluff checks too. Break at level 4 for maximum synergy.
Archmage (DMG): Originally I didn't think so - then I thought of using every High Arcana to switch the Malconvoker's highest spell slots for Summon Monster SLA's. With 2 uses per day each - that's a whole lot more SM VIII's and IX's. Qualifying for the PrC is easy enough. A dip into MS gets you Skill Focus (Spellcraft), you already have Spell Focus (Conjuration)...
Sacred Exorcist (CD): Too easy to qualify for, irregardless of base class. A nice scaling unnamed bonus to various rolls against evil outsiders that includes BLUFF. First level gives you Turn Undead - allowing the non-clerics to take the various divine feats and such. Some other nice features too. Worthy for a 1 level dip - or a 10 level marathon swim.
Not as good as it sounds:
Nar Demonbinder (UE): Unfortunately, although the flavor of this class is perfect, the mechanics for spellcasting hurt you too badly to be worth it. You will give up 9th level spells completely, and you will get 1 casting of an 8th level spell. When you go back to your previous class - you are building on your spellcasting from before you took the PrC - making 15th level your best spellcaster progression. Ouch!
Ultimate Magus (CM): You can actually combine Ultimate Magus with Nar Demonbinder to make a half decent summoning build. I've actually charted out the spellcasting for this build - and although it holds its own - it isn't your best bet. If you are in love with the Ultimate Magus (many are) - it is do-able.
Never take:
Alienist: You just removed all evil Summons from your Summon Monster list. Now you suck.
Also avoid any PrC’s that remove additional spellcasting levels (you’ve already lost one).
Sixth: What race should I be?
Race Choices:
Rather than listing all the good races that could work – let me give you a few guidelines:
Good: Anything with bonus feats, bonuses to Int, bonuses to Cha, bonuses to Con
Bad: Anything with a level adjustment. Or minuses to the above stats without a bonus to another of the above stats.
Easy enough?
(Reneshat points out that an illumian has up to two levels of "practiced spellcaster" type effect for free - so might save a feat later, also a +2 to CHA checks is good for Bluff checks for your deceptive summons ability..)
Seventh: What skills should I take?
Skill Choices:
Bluff: Obviously. Get enough to qualify for Malconvoker – then Max it out.
Languages: Infernal and Abyssal, plus Ignan, Terran, Auran, Aquan and Celestial. Languages are important for communicating with your summoned creatures. You will get Infernal and Celestial to qualify for Malconvoker - but I would suggest adding Abyssal and Terran as an absolute minimum. If you have a high INT build - get all the extraplanar languages.
Knowledges: The Planes and Arcana. A bit of knowledge in what you do.
Spellcraft: Good for any caster. Especially for you - it fortifies your Magic Circle for planar binding spells.
Concentration: Also good for any caster. If you don’t have the Wizard – rapid spell variant – then this is twice as important.
Eighth: What Feats should I take?
Feat Choices:
See the Summoning Handbook thread above. In addition:
Summon Elemental (CM): Any summoner should take this Reserve feat as soon as it's available (CM). This grants a standard action Elemental Summoning. The Elemental will be Small, Medium or Large depending on the level of the summoning spell you use to power it - and will last 1 round/level per level of the spell used to power. See my "Fun with Summon Elemental" rant at the beginning of the Summon Monster section.
Improved Initiative (PHB): is nice to have in conjunction with Rapid Summoning. It gives your boys a better chance to hit the enemy flat footed.
Practiced Spellcaster (CA): Get that spellcasting level you lost back
Cloudy Conjuration (CM): Nice ability - summon the creature beside the opponent and cover your opponent in sickening smoke for free. Keep in mind that you just granted them concealment (though the right summons ignore that).
Demon Mastery (FC I): Gives +1 CL for summoning demons and +2 on the CHA check on Planar Binding spells. By RAW the +2 should apply to all Planar Bindings whether they be demon or not - but best make sure your DM understands that before you take the feat. (Thanks to Sir Agenon for the suggestion and to Nanshork for pointing out the +2 bonus is good for any Planar Binding by RAW)
Fiendish Summoning Specialist (PH): Allows you to add one evil creature per level to your summon monster spells. It will require you to be of non-good alignment though (restricting you to the neutral alignments). (Planar Handbook) - (thanks to Roccu for this suggestion - very good!)
Item Familiar (UA): This feat is a variant from Unearthed Arcana. It allows you to "invest" 3 skill points into a magic item, in return the item grants a +1 unnamed bonus to any skill you choose (How about "Bluff"?). You can keep increasing the bonus up to your actual rank in the skill - so that can create a HUGE bluff score if you are willing to sacrifice your other skills. (Thanks Neomikelch for this suggestion)
Divine Metamagic (CD): If you are a Cleric - and combine this with Twin or Repeat spell - (or potentially both) you can get alot of summoned creatures onto the board. If your DM allows Nightsticks - this is easily as good as the other DMM/Nightstick abuses. Without nightsticks - it is still viable on a lesser level. An Archavist could qualify if Sacred Excorsist levels are taken.
Divine Accuracy (LM): Any Cleric or Malconvoker that has multiclassed with Sacred Excorcist can easily qualify for this very impressive feat that will allow you to exchange a turn attempt for re-rolls on missed attacks by you and your allies. Since summoned creatures sometimes have a decent miss chance - and you have multiples on the map - this becomes exceedingly good.
Chain Spell: Can't be used for summoning - but can be used for Buffs - an Archivist might consider chaining a Magic Fang spell for example.
Rapid Spell: (CD) If you don't have Rapid Summoning - this is the way to get Standard Action castings. You will need to combine it with DMM or Metamagic School or some other trick to be used without decreasing spell level though.
Metamagic School: (CM): Reduce the cost of Metamagic to conjuration spells by one three times/day. No minimum level increase - so works with Rapid Spell. However - also useful with extend at low levels.
Obtain Familiar: (CA): Pick up a snake for an easy +3 to bluff checks.
Ninth: Aren't Spirit Shamans and Druids better summoners?
The belief comes from the comparison of Summon Monster vs Summon Nature's Ally.
The two spell chains have different strengths:
Summon Natures Ally: Most offense and HP as soon as possible
Summon Monster: More defense (DR/resistances), more INT, more SLA creatures, more choices.
You will see many creatures on the Summon Nature's Ally list show up on the next level of Summon Monster (For example - the wolf appears on the Summon Natures Ally I list, but on the Summon Monster II list). The only difference is that the Fiendish/Celestial template is added.
This template adds to neither TO HIT or to DAMAGE which means that in combat - well - you do the math.
It does add to INT however (makes INT 0, 1 or 2 animals/vermin into INT 3 magical beasts). This means the creature can understand the summoner (by RAW they understand common)- allowing the summoner to issue direct commands; "Attack that guy", "Grapple", "Grab that weapon off the ground", or "Come defend me."
Animals from Summon Natures Ally can be directed with "Animal Handling", but this requires a skill check, doesn't occur until the next round, and has a limited list available. Even with Speak With Animals, it is likely the DM will restrict you to the normal actions an animal can be directed to do, though you should be able to avoid the skill check.
However, if you go to the higher level spells - this ceases to happen. In fact - you will see Summon Nature's Ally lists become smaller and smaller.
In either Eberron or FR (not greyhawk) there are also more feats available to enhance creatures summoned with Summon Natures Ally. Greenbound (FR) is especially potent at low levels - making animal summons much thougher than there Summon Monster counterparts.
At higher levels these feats become less of a factor. Greenbound only works with animals (there are less and less available at higher levels) and prevents some of the better buffs (such as Animal Growth).
Here's the basic truth behind Summoners: At low levels, Spirit Shamans and Druids are your best summoners. If you go Malconvoker though, at level 10 the Malconvoker build makes the better summoner.
My suggestion is that a Summon Monster specialist hold off on summoning until Summon Monster III is available, focusing more on their other spells. From levels 5-9, summoning will be good - but not great. At level 10, it will become great - and remain so for the rest of the campaign.
Of course with an Archivist you get the best of both worlds - as long as you can get the Summon Nature's Ally spells into your prayerbook.
So - if your campaign is going to level 9 and that's it - then you are better off focusing on Summon Nature's Ally - beyond that level - Summon Monster is where it's at.
As an added note - Fiendish creatures that previously had an INT score of 0 (vermin) recieve Feats and Skills. There is no set way to determine what these feats and skills should be. Ask your DM - they should probably choose those feats (if they let you pick - welcome to broken stinky cheese).
Tenth: What's so great about summoning anyways?
There are many reasons to play a malconvoker. First and foremost - maybe you like the flavor. I love the very idea of the Malconvoker - playing a dangerous game with dark forces of great power. But let's forget that - these are the Char Op boards. So in the context of that - this is why summoning (specifically with a Malconvoker) is great:
1. A Malconvoker can substitute for a party fighter-type: The casting should be a standard action - and then you have huge expendible blobs of HP blocking you and your precious caster allies from the baddies.
2. Malconvoker's are masters of Battefield control - Whether you want to Grapple, Bull Rush, Sunder, or Trip - there is a summoned monster that can do it. How's a grapple score of +52 sound to you? You can get this with a summoned monster - without any buffing at all. Oh yeah - and you get two of them.
3. A Malconvoker can substitute for the party scout: At mid to high levels - those low level Summon Monsters have to be good for something. You can summon creatures with excellent Hide/Move silently/Spot/Listen and search checks. Many also have tremorsense or blindsense for picking up invisible foes. Have them check stuff out for you - then report back. You've got great durations. Oh yeah - can your party scout glide through walls? You should have gotten the malconvoker to send an earth elemental through - have him come back and report.
4. A Malconvoker has spell versitility: Really you do. Check out the lists below for some of the Spell Like Abilities available to summoned monsters. Summon the one you need - and have it cast the spell for you. For example - how many Walls of Ice can a 14th level Conjurer cast? If you said 2/round for 15 rounds for a total of 30, you would be wrong (if that conjurer happens to be a Malconvoker)- because the Malconvoker does that with one SM VII (Bone Devilx2), and he has 3 memorized - so 90 would actually be the correct number.
Oh - wait - I forgot Deceptive Summons. Make that 180. That's without any magic item enhancements.
And the SLA's available are nearly endless - and since you don't have to pick which creature (S) you are summoning until you cast the spell - that's spell versitility.
5. A Malconvoker can check for traps: While the term "trapmonkey" is normally a metaphorical term - to you it's literal. Oh those poor celestial monkeys.
6. A Malconvoker saves the Cleric healing spells: There is no way to get an opponents attention off you than to grapple him with a summoned creature. The enemy attacks the creature - and at the end of the combat - if the creature is still alive - you dismiss it.
7. A Malconvoker can do great damage to opponents: Check out the Fiendish tiger. Now pretend you summon 2 with Fiendish legion at level 10. Buff them both up with Augment/Infernal fury. Summon them on either side of your opponent - and have them both charge - gaining 5 attacks each (one with flanking bonus). Work out the damage. Yeah - it's huge. Next round they'll keep attacking and the damage will keep coming.
8. Malconvokers are good against all opponents: If the opponent is a flyer - summon 2 Giant Wasps, if the opponent is Aquatic, summon 2 giant sharks, if the opponent is burrowing, summon 2 Dire Weasels, If the opponent is a spellcaster, summon high SR creatures, etc etc etc. The Summon Monster list is big at all levels. Lots to choose from for any occassion.
The Malconvoker’s abilities most strongly work to enhance these spells. Deceptive Summons at level 1, Infernal Fury at level 4, Infernal Legion at level 5, Resistance at level 7, and Safe Summoning at level 9.
Hint: When using Infernal Fury you can place both creatures anywhere in your range. Use them to flank your opponent and both full attack – with flanking bonuses. Or even better – have the critters on opposite sides of your opponent – but have one of them 10’ away. Have the one that is 10’ away charge (getting charge and flanking bonuses) and the other just attack (with flank).
Obviously you should take all 9. Always have many of these spells memorized – no spell is better for you than this one.
Because of the nature of the Malconvoker – evil creatures tend to be your best summon. After 5 levels in Malconvoker – Evil creatures will almost always be your best bet.
These are great spells I would suggest that a Malconvoker use even if they break from the class at level 5.
However, there are some major considerations you must make. Especially if you are a Conjurer/Malconvoker:
You must have access to Abjuration in order to use Planar Binding spells (For Magic Circle against evil)
Enchantment school is very helpful (multiple spells will help you in your opposed CHA check - some might help you avoid it altogether)
Necromancy school has similar bonuses to Enchantment (although less so)
So if you play a Specialist wizard or a Focused specialist wizard - never give up Abjuration or Enchantment. Necromancy is less important, but still helpful.
So I said in the Feat section you should definitely take this. You want it in your level 9 feat slot - so plan for it. Why is it so great anyways?
All reserve feats tend to work in a specific way - they tend to copy the spell they are powered by, only much less potent, and often less versitle. However - they can be used over and over again - as a SU ability. In order to make a Reserve feat worthwhile - you must exploit the "infinite use" part as much as you can.
Now, when you use the feat - the elemental will be neutral - so you won't get Infernal Fury, Infernal Legion, Deceptive Summons etc. It does however benefit from your Augment Summoning ability - this is quite useful.
It does have a lot going for it for a "non-spell" if you think about it. Both for Combat Use as well as Ulility Use.
When you first get the feat - you will be powering it with a level 4 summon spell (Um - probably SM IV). It will be a standard action to use - last for 4 rounds, be a small elemental, and you can only have one at a time. So what do you do with that?
1) Use the Earth Elemental to glide through the walls, floor, or ceiling if they are rock and report what's on the other side.
2) Use the Earth Elemental to open any doors/chests etc you think might be trapped.
3) Use the Earth Elemental to test hallways you think might be trapped.
4) Use the Water Elemental to check out the "Murky Water" that seems to be in every dungeon.
5) Use the Water Elemental's Drench ability to put out fires and magical fires
6) Use the Fire Elemental to start Large fires
7) Combat: Use any elemental to flank
8) Combat: Use the Earth or Air Elemental to "Aid Another" on attacks or AC (90% to succeed)
9) Combat: Use the Earth Elemental to Bull Rush - with a touch attack it will likely hit - the Bull Rush is a long shot of succeeding though - but the chance isn't that bad (Total Bull Rush +2)
10) Combat: Use any elemental to provoke the attacks of opportunity from your enemy - now your allies and summoned creatures are no longer in danger unless the enemy has combat Reflexes. A way to open up your enemy for a Grapple Attempt by a summoned creature.
Once the Spell that Powers the Feat is 6th level or higher - the Elemental becomes Medium Sized:
1) The Bull rush of the Earth Elemental becomes reasonably good. (Total Bull Rush +8)
2) Chance to Aid Another is now 95% (fails on a one only)
Once the Spell that powers the Feat is 8th level or higher - the Elemental becomes Large:
1) Bull Rush now pretty good (+14 modifier)
2) Elemental now has DR 5/-
3) Technically - you can use an Air or Water elemental to do the vortex/whirlwind and move enemies. In more drastic situations - you can have it move you - though you will take a bit of damage from this manouver.
In all cases the Elemental will not be an overly impactful combatant - it's just too weak for the level in which you are when you get it. However - lots of useful things to do with them - both inside and outside of combat. Not a feat for use when you are fighting the BBEG - but against his minions - this can save you spells while still giving some Battlefield control, minor buffing, as well as attracting enemy attacks.
Your "To Hit" will never be high enough to use these elementals for straight combat - in many cases you will need a 20 to hit. If you do want to make "attack" manouvers - attempt Trips and Bull Rushes. The touch attack makes it much easier for you to hit, and opposed STR checks give you a chance of success (on things like Grapple or Disarm where BAB is added - you have no realistic chance). Remember - your STR and CON are higher than the MM version by 4 each (Augment Summoning), this will give a measurable boost.
Summon Monster I
For non-core summonable creatures - please check THIS out.
Things to know about SM I:
Combat: A dog or a badger are decent combatants when you are levels 1 or 2, but at higher levels they are more for flanking/aiding another.
(A nice tactic is after your original summons are engaging the enemy – cast a SM I, pick Dire Rat, have them flank your summons opponent, and have them “Aid another”. That’s +4 for your main summon to hit.) Their own damages will be too small to have any effect.
Avoid summoning these against opponents with Cleave!
A small monstrous spider can web a medium creature. Even though the webs aren’t strong – they take a standard action to remove. That has use even at high levels (provided they can hit).
Outside Combat: At mid-high levels the SMI spell ceases to be much use in combat beyond aiding/flanking (and with malconvoker 5, your summoned creatures are probably already flanking)– however there are other uses.
The main ones are probe/trap monkey. Monstrous Spiders have tremorsense and can detect invisible foes for you. Celestial Monkeys make trapmonkey a non-metaphorical term, as they can turn handles and open chests. Poor celestial monkey. Dire rats are excellent scouts with hide/move silently/spot and listen.
Mixed with the malconvoker: The Spiders will be most useful to you in combat (as a secondary spell) bring them in to flank or to web. Tremorsense find hidden foes. Use Dire rats for scouts or aid/flank buddies. With Deceptive summons they should have time to do the job.
Treantmonk’s favourite: The Fiendish spider – it’s OK off the bat – webbing remains good for a few more levels. Tremorsense will be useful for a long time.
They wasted our time with: The Scorpion. It can improved grab tiny creatures – has terrible stats, and has a -3 to hit with poison tail. How did this make the list?
All entries at this level assume you have Augment Summoning
(Bracketed) #'s are Sense Motive totals for evil creatures (for deceptive summons reference)
Celestial dog - 1 HD Small magical beast, HP:8, to hit +4. Not quite as good as the badger for combat.
Celestial owl - 1 HD Tiny magical beast, HP:6, to hit +5. Only good as a low-light scout
Celestial giant fire beetle - 1 HD Small magical beast, HP:6, to hit +3. Slightly inferior combatant. AC is a little better though.
Celestial porpoise - 2 HD Medium magical beast, HP:15, to hit +4. Very good aquatic summon.
Celestial badger - 1 HD Small magical beast, HP:10 (raged), to hit +4. Good combat summon due to Rage and 3 attacks.
Celestial monkey - 1 HD Tiny magical beast, HP:6, to hit +4. Literal trapmonkey.
Fiendish dire rat(+1) - 1 HD Small magical beast, HP:7, to hit +4. Not bad combatant – after Malconvoker Lvl 4 this is your best choice. Also a good scout.
Fiendish raven(+2) - 1/4 HD Tiny magical beast, HP:3, to hit +4 Pretty much a worthless summon until Malconvoker (go owl instead), after malconvoker extended duration makes this a decent scout in low-light.
Fiendish monstrous centipede, medium(0) - 1 HD Medium magical beast. HP:6, to hit:+2 Very weak.
Fiendish monstrous scorpion, small(0) - 1 HD Small magical beast. HP:8, to hit+2 Very weak.
Fiendish hawk(+2) - 1 HD Tiny magical beast, HP:6, to hit+8 Daylight scout: Spot +14
Fiendish monstrous spider, small(0) - 1 HD Small magical beast, HP:6, to hit:+4 Webs, best bug combatant at this level.
Fiendish octopus(+1) - 2 Small HD magical beast, HP:13, to hit +5 Decent aquatic summons.
Fiendish snake, small viper(+1) - 1 HD Small magical beast, HP:6, to hit+4 Save DC 12 poison – otherwise useless.
Things to know about SM II:
Tidbits: You can now summon your first outsider – the Lemure. It blows, but might have some use if fighting within a darkness spell, inside a fire, or against a poisonous foe.
Combat: Your best two combatants at this level are the riding dog and the wolf. The riding dog does a bit more damage/better to hit, the wolf has trip. The large centipede has a not bad grapple if grappling is what you want to do (it will provoke an AoO). Medium spiders can web up to large foes.
Outside Combat: Not much here unless you are out of SM I, in which case the medium spider can fulfill the roll of the small easy enough.
Mixed with the malconvoker: The wolf becomes the best combatant, but purely secondary compared to what you can summon with higher level spells. The wolf (augmented) has a +5 to hit and a +3 trip modifier. If you think this can help – throw them in as a secondary summons.
Treantmonk’s favourite: The Fiendish wolf. The first battlefield control summons. Wolf’s trip ability saves an otherwise poor SM level.
They wasted our time with: The Celestial giant bee. It dies if it hits with its attack. For a penalty like that – the rest better be great – it isn’t.
Celestial giant bee- 3 HD Medium magical beast, HP:19, to hit:+4 If you need a flyer – go with the eagle.
Celestial giant bombardier beetle - 2 HD Medium magical beast, HP:17, to hit +4 Fire a 10’ acid cone for 1d4+2 damage. Otherwise, not much here.
Celestial riding dog - 2 HD Medium magical beast, HP:17, To hit:+5 Before SMIII this is your best combatant for straight stats. Not too bad actually.
Celestial eagle - 1 HD Small magical beast, HP:7, To hit:+3 Not a very good combatant – but the best you have at this level. Also, being small size they are large enough to threaten/flank/aid another.
Lemure(0) - 2 HD Small outsider, HP:13, to hit:+4 Pretty bad. Can see in magical darkness and has immunity to fire and poison though.
Fiendish squid(+1) - 3 HD Medium magical beast, HP:19, to hit: +6 So-so aquatic choice.
Fiendish wolf(+1) - 2 HD Medium magical beast, HP:17, to hit:+5 2 less damage per attack than the riding dog and one less AC, but gets a free trip with every hit. Probably your best combat choice.
Fiendish monstrous centipede, large(0) - 3 HD Large magical beast, HP:19, To hit:+5 +9 to grapple isn’t bad for a 2nd level summons. Will have the best HP (slightly), not a bad combat summons overall.
Fiendish monstrous scorpion, medium(0) - 2 HD Medium magical beast, HP:17, to hit:+4 +4 grapple with improved grab (+4 to hit), damage is OK and 3 attacks/round. One of the scorpion’s better appearances. Don’t expect to hit with the tail (and therefore the poison) though.
Fiendish shark, medium(+1) - 3 HD magical beast, HP:22, To hit:+5 So-so aquatic choice.
Fiendish monstrous spider, medium(0) - 2 HD Medium magical beast, HP:15, to hit:+4 Scorpion is better combatant at this level – but can web up to large creatures.
Fiendish snake, medium viper(+1) - 2 HD Medium magical beast, HP:13, to hit:+4 Still not a great summons, but poison DC is 13 and it has a better chance to hit with it than the scorpion.
Things to know about Summon Monster III:
Tidbits: Now you can summon your first outsider that isn’t poor. A Dretch doesn’t match up to a fiendish ape, but it can cast a stinking cloud and then scare, and then enter combat – with 3 attacks/round. This is the first level that elementals become available. Summon Monster III is one of the best Summon Monster spells for its level.
Combat: Before malconvoker, the Celestial Bison is a star. Afterwards, Fiendish ape. If you want improved grab, you have two options at this level – the croc is usually the stronger choice of the two. At this level some creatures have DR 5/magic and some don't. The ones that do are the Celestial Bison, the Fiendish Ape, the Fiendish Huge Centipede, and the Fiendish Dire Bat. Keep this in mind when thinking about HP of your summons.
Outside Combat: Earth elementals can glide through walls, come back, and tell you what they saw. If you have pyromaniac tendancies, the fire elemental/Hell hound burn stuff real good.
Mixed with the malconvoker: Got to like the fiendish ape. Great chance to hit, 3 attacks/round, good HP. If you want size, the centipede is HUGE, this is your strongest bet for pure grapple score. Constrictors and Crocs both get improved grab if you don’t want to provoke an AoO. The Crocs stats are better, but the constrictor does better damage once the grapple is in place.
Treantmonk’s favourite: The Fiendish ape. Why do I like the ape more than the bison? Well, statistically it’s almost as good (HP suffer a bit), but you get 3 attacks, it can pick up stuff, and it’s evil. (Better for after Malconvoker levels)
They wasted our time with: The Fiendish Boar. This doesn’t nearly stack up to the Bison or the Ape – what were they thinking?
Celestial black bear - 3 HD Medium magical beast, HP:25, To hit:+8 Not very impressive – go with the bison or ape. If you need a swim speed – go with the crocodile.
Celestial bison - 5 HD Large magical beast, HP:47, To hit:+10 A very good tank. HP, to hit, and damage are unequalled at this level, plus DR 5/magic. However, the fiendish ape will get more attacks.
Celestial dire badger - 3 HD Medium magical beast, HP:40 (raged), To hit: +8 (raged) Has a burrow speed – otherwise not great. Go with the wolverine.
Celestial hippogriff - 3 HD Large magical beast, HP:31, To Hit:+8 100’ move rate flyer.
Elemental, small - 2 HD Small elemental. HP:13-15, To hit:+3-+7 Purely utility at this point.
Fiendish ape(+1) - 4 HD Large magical beast, HP:37, to hit:+9 King of the tanks of SM III. Slightly worse HP and to hit than the bison, though it still gets the DR 5/magic, what arguably makes it better than the bison is the 3 attacks per round and that it's evil.
Fiendish dire weasel(+1) - 3 HD Medium magical beast, HP:19, to hit:+8 As a secondary combatant these can attach and drain con. To hit is only a +6 though. HP are poor too. Could be useful against a BBEG with low AC.
Hell Hound(0) - 4 HD Medium outsider, HP:30, To hit:+7 Has a 2d4 10 foot cone fire breath. They also have scent and immunity to fire. Not your best combat choice unless fighting something where fire is good.
Fiendish snake, constrictor(+1) - 3 HD Medium magical beast, HP:25, To hit:+7 on a +7 grapple. The only advantage of the snake over the crocodile is constricting damage.
Fiendish boar(+1) - 3 HD Medium magical beast, HP:31, To hit:+6 Take the ape – if space is an issue, take the croc or the wolverine.
Fiendish dire bat(+2) - 4 HD Large magical beast, HP:38, to hit:+7 This is actually a very strong summons. DR, blindsense 40 ft. Good HP, DR 5/magic, attack +7 (1d8+7). Has hide/move silently/listen and spot.
Fiendish monstrous centipede, huge(0) - 6 HD Huge magical beast, HP:45, to hit:+7 Grapple is +17 (no improved grapple though). HP are good (not much better than ape or bison though), including the ever-valuable DR 5/magic. To hit +7
Fiendish crocodile(+1) - 3 HD Medium magical beast, HP:28, to hit:+8 Improved Grab with grapple +8, +8 to hit. Use for improved grab or aquatic, otherwise go with the Fiendish Ape.
Dretch(0) - 2 HD Small outsider, HP:17, to hit:+6 The SLA’s are mentioned above – once those are used you have a creature with 3 attacks/round. Not a lot of HP though, only summon if you have use of the SLA’s, or need the telepathy.
Fiendish snake, large viper(+1) - 3 HD Large magical beast, HP:19, to hit:+4 Poison is pretty weak – not great in melee. Not much here.
Fiendish wolverine(+1) - 3 HD Medium magical beast, HP:40 (raged), To Hit: +8 (raged) Not as strong as the ape in melee, but is med size (if size is an issue) and has burrow.
SLA's available with SM III:
Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/day)
*Works on “self only”
Scare – (3rd)(Dretch)(2/12)(1/x)
Stinking Cloud- (2nd)(Dretch)(2/13)(1)
Things to know about SM IV:
Tidbits: SLA’s and Su abilities are becoming more of a factor. For straight combat SM IV does not shine above SM III as it did over the previous level.
Combat: For charging the celestial lion is terrific. Dire wolves get trip (with a decent score) and good HP. Howlers get the terrific quills (and they are stackable). Against one BBEG, the howlers are the way to go. Against multiples – the dire wolf is better. If DR of the opponent is a problem – Lantern Archons ignore it.
Outside Combat, or non melee combat aids: Lantern archons are stuffed with useful SLA’s, and if summoned close can protect your party with aura of menace and magic circle against evil. If you are approaching large groups of enemies – a yeth hound can be sent 305’ ahead and bay. That’s a 300 radius spread!
Mixed with the malconvoker: Summoning 2 dire wolves that begin in flank and both are making trip attempts is huge. Even after SMV is available this is a strong option. If the opponent is very large – then go with howlers. The quills stack, and those -1’s add up.
Treantmonk’s favourite: The howler. Once you can summon 2 at a time those quills add up. I love that they lower saves too.
They wasted our time with: The Celestial Giant Owl. This is on par with the Dire Bat of the previous level – how did it ever make SMIV?
Archon, lantern - 1 HD Small outsider, HP:6, to hit:+2 The SLA’s and “always on” abilities (Circle against evil, tongues, aura of malice, Aid) are the big draws. The attack only does 1d6 and has a not great chance of hitting (2 per round with full attack), it is ranged however and ignores DR. Against a high DR critter this could be a good summons – but don’t count on the +2 attack to hit very often. More of a defensive choice (for the magic circle and the aura) than an offensive one.
Celestial giant owl - 4 HD Large magical beast, HP:34, To hit:+9 Go with either the giant eagle or the giant wasp. If you need the night vision, consider the dire bat from SM III.
Celestial giant eagle - 4 HD Large magical beast, HP:34, to hit:+9 This has flyby attack – and evasion. Certainly better than the owl (unless you are flying at night)
Celestial lion - 5 HD Large magical beast, HP:42, To hit:+9 First 5 atttack charger available. Rake, Pounce and improved grab – pretty good.
Mephit (any) - 3 HD Small outsider, HP:19-25, to hit:+6 to +9 These are about the SLA’s. Wind wall, Gust of wind, Heat metal, Chill metal, Glitterdust, Blur, Melf’s acid arrow, pyrotechnics.
Fiendish dire wolf(+1) - 6 HD Large magical beast, HP:57, to hit:+11 Great HP, Good attack, trip. Strong choice.
Fiendish giant wasp(+1) - 5 HD Large magical beast, HP:42, to hit:+8 Only flyer on current level that has evil alignment and is half decent in melee. Poison isn’t impressive, however, 60’ fly (good) is. For pure attack, not a great choice.
Fiendish giant praying mantis(+2) - 4 HD Large magical beast, HP:34, to hit:+8 Improved grab with grapple of +13. 2 attacks/round. To hit isn’t great (+8 with Augment). Not that impressive overall. If you want improved grab though – this might be your best SM IV bet.
Fiendish shark, large(+1) - 7 HD large magical beast, HP:52, to hit:+9 Pretty good aquatic summons.
Yeth hound(+2) - 3 HD Medium outsider, HP:25, To hit:+8 Bay ability, flies. Only summon if you have use of bay, otherwise go with the giant wasp or the dire wolf (depending whether you need fly)
Fiendish monstrous spider, large(0) - 4 HD Large magical beast, HP:30, to hit:+6 Now you can web huge creatures. For melee this is weak.
Fiendish snake, huge viper(+1) - 6 HD Huge magical beast, HP:45, to hit:+8 Poison is DC 16 (with augment), not bad. HP are decent, only any good if you think the poison will hold.
Howler(+2) - 6 HD Large outsider, HP:52, To hit:+12 The advantage of the howler over the dire wolf is quills. These work better against a single more powerful opponent since they stack.
SLA's available to SM IV
Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/summon)
*Works on “self only”
Aid-(2nd)(Lantern Archon)(3/x)(at will)
Blur*-(2nd)(Air Mephit)(6/x)(1)
Blur*-(2nd)(Dust Mephit)(6/x)(1)
Blur*-(2nd)(Steam Mephit)(3/x)(1)
Chill Metal-(2nd)(Ice Mephit)(6/14)(1)
Continual Flame-(2nd)(Lantern Archon)(3/x)(at will)
Detect Evil-(1st)(Lantern Archon)(3/x)(at will)
Glitterdust-(2nd)(Salt Mephit)(3/14)(1)
Gust of wind-(2nd)(Air Mephit)(6/14)(1)
Heat Metal-(2nd)(Fire Mephit)(6/14)(1)
Magic Circle Against Evil*-(3rd)(Lantern Archon)(1/x)(always on)
Magic Missile-(1st)(Ice Mephit)(3/x)(1)
Melf’s Acid Arrow-(2nd)(Ooze Mephit)(3/x)(1)
Melf’s Acid Arrow-(2nd)(Water Mephit)(3/x)(1)
Pyrotechnics-(2nd)(Magma Elemental)(6/14)(1)
Scorching ray-(2nd)(Fire Mephit)(3/14)(1)
Soften Earth and Stone-(2nd)(Earth Mephit)(6/x)(1)
Stinking Cloud-(3rd)(Ooze Mephit)(6/15)(1)
Stinking Cloud-(3rd)(Water Mephit)(6/15)(1)
Tongues*-(3rd)(Lantern Archon)(14/x)(always on)
Wind Wall – (3rd)(Dust Mephit)(6/13)(1)
Now I’m assuming Augment Summoning, a Ring of Mighty summons and Infernal Fury for evil creatures
Things to know about SM V:
Tidbits: SLA’s are less of a star here – but now the star is grapple.
Secondly – assuming at least level 10, it is time to buy a ring of mighty summons (14,000 gp). It gives your creatures Max HP for their HD, but ½’s the duration of your spell. Since you get deceptive summons – that’s still 10 rounds (or more, depending on your feats). Long enough for most combats. The ring can be removed if you aren’t sure.
Combat: Fiendish Giant Crocodiles. They are huge, good attack, improved grab. The brown bear is just as good, but you already have malconvoker – this is no choice. If you’re charging the tiger is good, and bearded devils get frenzy which is nice.
Outside Combat: Not much here.
Mixed with the malconvoker: Flank with the crocs – both attack, both get grapple attempts – pin and kill. Against big/strong opponents this tactic can still work. Leaving the flank provokes AoO, once again bringing improved grab into play. Eventually the grapple will hold. These things have great HP too.
Treantmonk’s favourite: Fiendish Huge Crocodiles. Love to flank with +23 grapple attacks
They wasted our time with: Fiendish deinonychus. Why is this even here? The stats blow for SM V. This should have been a SM IV. Same goes for the Fiendish Dire Ape.
Also: you now have Fiendish legion for certain. No point summoning non-evil creatures unless there is a specific ability you are after. If there isn’t some specific reason to summon a non-evil creature – I’ll simply point it out to you with the prime replacement summon.
Archon, hound - 6 HD Medium outsider, HP:54, To hit:+10 If you want the SLA’s – get the Lantern Archon cheaper. This guy is more durable if you are worried about that though.
Celestial Brown Bear- 6 HD Large magical beast, HP:72, to hit:+13 Summon 2 Huge crocs instead. If huge is too big for your environment, then go with 2 fiendish tigers.
Celestial giant stag beetle - 7 HD Large magical beast, HP:91, to hit:+12 Trample is the only reason to summon.
Celestial sea cat - 6 HD Large magical beast, HP:90, To hit: +11 Summon 2 huge sharks instead.
Celestial griffon - 7 HD Large magical beast, HP:105, to hit: +13 The best flyer you can summon at this level (air elemental only other choice). To make use of Fiendish Legion – if you need flyers you will need to go with 1d3+1
Fiendish Giant Wasps (SM IV)
Elemental, medium (any) - 4 HD Medium elemental, HP:48-52, to hit: +8-+10 Earth elemental gets improved bull rush (can bull rush up to large creatures. Very strong/quadruped creatures may be hard). Use smaller elementals for the utility stuff – they are much cheaper.
Achaierai(+11) - 6 HD Large outsider, HP:84, to hit:+11 As a combatant the Archaierai aren’t too bad, but the Black Cloud ability makes this a strong summons against multiple foes. Throw both into the middle of your enemies and release the clouds (make sure they are more than 10 feet away from you) Note that the DC is Con based, and therefore a 17 with Augment Summoning.
Devil, bearded(+9) - 6 HD Medium outsider, HP:102 (raged), to hit:+13 (raged) For combat the croc is better, but the Glaive of the devil is considered evil aligned and law aligned (which might be good for getting past DR), and they have telepathy as well. Circumstances can easily make this your best combatant.
Fiendish deinonychus(+1) - 4 HD Large magical beast, HP:64, to hit:+8 The tiger is just better – unless the 60’ move is going to be a big factor. Yes – this is the Raptor from the Jurassic Park movies – though even with the fiendish template it won’t be as smart.
Fiendish dire ape(+1) - 5 HD Large magical beast, HP:73, to hit:+10 Not all that much better than the Fiendish Apes available with SM III, except for rend perhaps (At this point reg Fiendish apes have HP:59). You are better off with 1d4+1 of them. This should have been a SM IV summons.
Fiendish dire boar(+1) - 7 HD Large magical beast, HP:104, to hit:+14 Should have over 100 hp, and fights to -10. That’s really its best feature. Not a terrific combatant overall.
Fiendish shark, huge(+1) - 10 HD Huge magical beast, HP:140, To hit:+12 Very tough aquatic combatant.
Fiendish monstrous scorpion, large(0) - 5 HD Large magical beast, HP:110, To hit:+8 A lot of creatures will easily save vs the poison (if it even hits) – only time you want to summon this – if size is an issue, so you can’t summon the croc, and you want improved grab. That’s pretty much it.
Shadow mastiff(+1) - 4 HD Medium outsider, HP:60, to hit:+9 Better combatant statistically than the yeth hound, and still gets bay (higher DC), but no fly. If you aren’t using bay – summon 1d3 dire wolves instead.
Fiendish dire wolverine(+1) - 5 HD Large magical beast, HP:93 (raged), To hit: +12 (raged) If you aren’t charging, and want lots of attacks, a raged dire wolverine is your best choice.
Fiendish giant crocodile(+1) - 7 HD Huge magical beast, HP:112, to hit +13 Improved grab with a grapple of +23 with Augment. Powerful single attack.
Fiendish tiger(+1) - 6 HD Large magical beast, HP:84, to hit:+11 The best charger in the SM V list. 5 attacks on a charge and improved grab.
SLA's for SM V:
Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/summon)
*Works on “self only”
Aid-(2nd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will)
Continual Flame-(2nd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will)
Detect Evil-(1st)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will)
Insanity-(7th)(Achaierai)(16/17)(3)(Reduced range/effect 3 hours)
Magic Circle Against Evil*-(3rd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(always on)
Message-(0)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will)
Tounges*-(3rd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(always on)
Now I’m assuming Augment Summoning, a Ring of Mighty summons and Infernal Fury for evil creatures.
Things to know about SM VI:
Tidbits: Elementals have just become a combat summons possibility, lots of SLA’s available at this level. Not a huge level for combat tanks.
Combat: If you are charging – the Rhino does great damage and can take a beating. If you carry around extra chains (you should), the Chain Devil has good offense. If you have room – the centipede has the best HP and grapple score. The constrictor snake is now your best all round grappler though (for the first time).
Outside Combat, or non melee combat aids: Lots here. Bralani have lots of SLA’s, for a few more, check Janni’s. Chain devils can create an effect that gimps your opponents (-2 mods)
Mixed with the malconvoker: Chain devils can get a lot of attacks (4/round) all with reach. The giant constrictor is a good grappler and does constrict damage. The Centipede is gargantuan. As you would assume, that means a heck of a lot of HP and a great grapple score.
Treantmonk’s favourite: Chain Devil. Dancing chains rocks.
They wasted our time with: Janni. Who thought that this was an equivalent summon to the Bralani?
Tip: If you carry some different kinds of chains (silver and cold iron) you can use chain devils to attack creatures that might normally have a DR hard for you to penetrate. You can carry 4 of each for only 16 lbs (not you of course – that’s what planar binding is for)
Celestial polar bear - 8 HD Large magical beast, HP:112, to hit:+15 Get the constrictor snake instead
Celestial orca whale - 9 HD Huge magical beast, HP:138, to hit: +14 Fiendish Elsasmosaurus is better.
Bralani (eladrin) - 6 HD Medium outsider, HP:68, to hit: +13 SLA’s: Charm person, gust of wind, mirror image, wind wall. 2/day: lightning bolt, cure serous wounds. All CL 6. Immune to electricity, has a pretty good ranged attack (good aligned). Have innate tongues ability.
Celestial dire lion - 8 HD Large magical beast, HP:104, to hit: +15 Strong charger – puts tigers on previous level to shame. However, the Fiendish Dire Tiger is just around the corner.
Elemental, large (any) - 8 HD Large elemental, HP:104-112, to hit: +12-+14 Earth elementals can now bull rush up to huge. An air elemental can now pick up med creatures in the whirlwind (or water elementals in the vortex). These are starting to get good.
Janni (genie) - 6 HD Medium outsider, HP:66, to hit:+11 SLA’s: 3/day: invisibility (self), speak with animals. 1/day create food and water, ethereal jaunt for 1 hour. Telepathy, Enlarge/reduce person. Not nearly as good as the Bralani overall.
Chaos beast - 8 HD Medium outsider, HP:101, To hit:+12 Only a decent choice if your opponent has a decent chance of failing a DC 17 Fort save – if they do, they’re screwed, if not, the Chaos beast isn’t good for much else.
Devil, chain(0) - 8 HD Medium outsider, HP:112, to hit:+12 Immunity to cold. Did you bring those chains? Get them within 20’ of the devil, and within 25’ of the enemy. That’s 4 attacks, +12 to hit, 2d4+6 damage each – crit range 19-20 (with infernal fury). Oh yeah – one skill these guys don’t have (unlike most devils) – sense motive.
Xill(+8) - 5 HD Medium outsider, HP:70, to hit:+9 4 attacks – not great for combat – but does have an SR of 21, which is stellar for this level.
Fiendish monstrous centipede, gargantuan(0) - 12 HD Gargantuan magical beast, HP:156, to hit:+13 Decent combatant – poison DC now 19. Best feature is a grapple of +29
Fiendish rhinoceros(+1) - 8 HD Large magical beast, HP:136, To hit:+15 Charge +17 for 4d6+30 damage. After that – still OK.
Fiendish elsasmosaurus(+1) - 10 HD Huge magical beast, HP:186, to hit: +15 Good aquatic choice. Can move on land too (20 feet).
Fiendish monstrous spider, huge(0) - 8 HD Huge magical beast, HP:112, to hit:+11 Can web up to gargantuan. Not great combatant though at this level.
Fiendish snake, giant constrictor(+1) - 11 HD Huge magical beast, HP:146, to hit:+15 Grapple is +25, Huge size. This is finally the premier grapple choice for its level. (Centipede has slightly higher grapple score – but no improved grab).
SLA's for SM VI:
Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/summon)
*Works on “self only”
Blur – (2nd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/x)(at will)
Charm Person – (1st)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/13)(at will)
Create food and water – (3rd)(Janni, Genie)(7th/x)(1/day)
Cure Serious Wounds – (3rd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/15)(2/day)
Ethereal Jaunt – (7th)(Janni, Genie)(7th/x)(1/day) – 1 hour duration
Gust of Wind – (2nd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/14)(at will)
Invisibility* – (2nd)(Janni, Genie)(12/x)(3/day)
Lightning Bolt – (3rd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/15)(2/day)
Mirror Image – (2nd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/x)(at will)
Speak with animals – (1st)(Janni, Genie)(12/x)(3/day)
Wind Wall – (3rd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/x)(at will)
Now I’m assuming Augment Summoning, a Ring of Mighty summons and Infernal Fury for evil creatures.
Things to know about SM VII:
Tidbits: We are now at the point where SLA’s and (Su) abilities are as important as the combat abilities. More of the summons are for the former than the latter. Tailoring your summons to your specific opponent becomes more important than ever.
Combat: Bone devils are great – not just for combat specs, but also for all the SLA’s that can be used in combat. They also have great saves. If pure HP are what you are after – the elementals have it.
Outside Combat, and non melee combat abilities: I can’t even touch on all the SLA’s available at this level. The Avoral has a million alone. Bone devils are also very good (wall of ice at will – nice!). Babau demons dispel magic at will.
Mixed with the malconvoker: The Bone Devil is your best all round combatant, they are also good battlefield controllers (2 walls of ice/round is very good). Babau demons get SA if used to flank. They also get dispel magic at will. That's two dispel checks per round against enemy spells. (thanks to Ancillary for pointing out that they can't be used to counterspell though. Oops.)
Treantmonk’s favourite: Bone Devils. For a summon monster VII these are a huge bargain. They outshine everything else at this level.
Chicken? Among the great abilities of Bone Devils are a high sense motive score – if this is a concern – A pair of Fiendish Girallon’s will get 10 attacks on your enemy – then Rend him. (the lower to hit score bothers me a bit though). The other option is to simply summon the bone devil without Deceptive Summoning – you might want to remove your Ring of Mighty Summons to keep a decent duration. They will still rock.
They wasted our time with: The Fiendish Megaraptor. For the same reason the Raptor sucks, so does its big brother. Tigers are just better – much better.
Celestial elephant - 11 HD Huge magical beast, HP:171, to hit:+18 Summon for utility if 34 STR will be of use.
Avoral (guardinal) - 7 HD Medium outsider, HP:105, to hit:+15 SLA’s at will: Aid, Blur (self), Command, detect magic, dimension door, dispel magic, gust of wind, hold person, light, magic circle against evil (self), magic missile, see invisibility. 3/day: lightning bolt. CL 8. Immune to electricity and petrification. Lay on hands for 21 healing. Fear aura and true seeing (standard actions each). Flies. Has all knowledges at +12, good hide/move silently, and a spot of 21. Good utility summons.
Celestial baleen whale - 12 HD Gargantuan magical beast, HP:198, to hit:+19 Go with the octopus against med or smaller – this is good against big stuff.
Djinni (genie) - 7 HD Large outsider, HP:84, to hit:+12 Major creation is permanent if used to create vegetable matter – All craft skills at +12. SLA’s also include wind walk, persistant image, create wine, create food and water, invisibility (self). Can assume gaseous form and whirlwind form. Immune to acid, telepathy.
Elemental, huge (any) - 16 HD Huge elemental, HP:224-240, to hit:+19-+21 Air elemental now a strong flying choice. Earth elementals can bull rush almost anything. A water elemental has a CL of 16 to dispel magic fires. These are very good combatants now.
Invisible stalker - 8 HD Large elemental, HP:80, to hit:+12 Not particularly strong, not evil – only summon if improved invisibility is really needed. Tracks at +13.
Slaad, red - 7 HD Large outsider, HP:91, to hit:+13 Immune to sonic. Has pounce and stun attack. HP aren’t great for a combat selection though.
Devil, bone(+15) - 10 HD Large outsider, HP:170, to hit:+16 Fear aura DC 17, Poison(Str) DC 22, At will SLA’s: Dimensional anchor, fly, invisibility (self), major image, wall of ice. CL 12. SR 21, Good combatant, all knowledges at +15, Move Silently +18, Search +15. 3 good attacks.
Fiendish megaraptor(+2) - 8 HD Huge magical beast, HP:139, to hit:+11 This is actually not much better than the fiendish tiger you could summon with SM V. This should be a great charger – but you are better off with 1d4+2 Fiendish tigers (sad). Speed is 60 if that’s a factor.
Fiendish monstrous scorpion, huge(0) - 10 HD Huge magical beast, HP:150, To hit:+13 +23 grapple with improved grab (Actually worse than the constrictor last level – but 2 chances to hit). Summon if tremorsense is going to come into play.
Babau (demon)(+1) - 7 HD Medium outsider, HP:119, to hit:+14 Sneak attack +2d6 (on 3 attacks), SLA’s: Darkness, dispel magic, see invisibility. CL 7. A slime coats this creature that does 1d8 damage to weapons that strike it (ignores hardness). Also, no sense motive.
Fiendish giant octopus(+1) - 8 HD Large magical beast, HP:107, to hit:+12 8 arm attacks - +17 grapple each. Good aquatic choice against med or smaller opponents.
Fiendish girallon(+1) - 7 HD Large magical beast, HP:118, To hit:+14 5 attacks/round + rend attack. For pure damage offense this is OK. That’s it though.
SLA's for SM VII:
Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/summon)
*Works on “self only”
Aid – (2nd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Blur* - (2nd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Command – (1st)(Avoral)(8/14)(at will)
Create Food and Water – (3rd)(Djinn)(20/x)(at will)
Create Water – (0)(Djinn)(20/x)(at will) – creates wine instead of water
Darkness – (2nd)(Babau)(7/x)(at will)
Detect magic – (0)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Dimension Door – (4th)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Dimensional Anchor – (4th)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will)
Dispel Magic – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Dispel Magic – (3rd)(Babau)(7/x)(at will)
Fly – (3rd)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will)
Gaseous form* – (3rd)(Djinn)(20/x)(1/day) – duration 1 hour
Gust of wind – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/15)(at will)
Hold Person – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/16)(at will)
Invisibility* - (2nd)(Djinn)(20/x)(at will)
Invisibility* - (2nd)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will)
Light – (0)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Lightning bolt – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/16)(3/day)
Magic Circle Against Evil – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Magic Missile – (1st)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Major Creation – (5th)(Djinn)(20/x)(1/day) – vegetable matter is permanent
Major Image – (3rd)(Bone Devil)(12/15)(at will)
Persistent Image – (5th)(Djinn)(20/17)(1/day)
See Invisibility – (2nd)(Avoral)(8x)(at will)
See Invisibility – (2nd)(Babau)(7x)(at will)
True Seeing* - (6th)(Avoral)(14/x)(at will) – 1 full round casting time
Wall of Ice – (4th)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will)
Wind Walk – (6th)(Djinn)(20/x)(1/day)
Things to know about SM VIII:
Now I’m assuming Augment Summoning, a Ring of Mighty summons and Infernal Fury for evil creatures.
Tidbits: More combat options here. Again, the SLA’s are too numerous to mention.
Combat: Well, I have to mention that you can now summon a colossal creature (Centipede), you need lots of room for this guy – but his HP are great, as is his grapple score. Fiendish Tyrannosaurus offers great offense/defense. A gargantuan spider can web any size creature. Vrocks are excellent combatants, and can fly.
Outside Combat or non-melee combat abilities: Can’t even get into all the SLA’s, however check out the Blue Slaad – some very nice ones there.
Mixed with the malconvoker: Very interesting option if you are willing to cast 2x. That gives you 4 vrocks – one to attack your enemies, and three to do a dance of Ruin – thats 20d6 damage – that is not energy damage (no resistances). Vrocks also get stunning screech, spores, 3 attacks – lots of options.
Treantmonk’s favourite: The Vrock. Good SLA’s, good combat stats. It is a Flyer. (honourable mention to the Fiendish T-Rex though)
Chicken? If the Vrock’s Sense Motive frightens you – The Fiendish T-Rex has lots to love too.
They wasted our time with: Hellcat. Sorry – invisibility is not worth 120 HP and +7 to hit. (the difference between the hellcat and the Fiendish dire tiger)
Celestial dire bear - 12 HD Large magical beast, HP:171, To Hit:+21 You will find the Dire Tiger the better offensive choice – and still get improved grab.
Celestial cachalot whale - 12 HD Gargantuan magical beast, HP:207, to hit:+19 Not much better than the Baleen whale last level. The giant squid gives a good evil summons for aquatic at this level.
Celestial triceratops - 16 HD Huge magical beast, HP:284, to hit:+22 It is surprising how a triceratops is as tough as a T-Rex. However – you can go with multiple Rhino’s instead for a similar effect.
Lillend - 7 HD Large outsider, HP:84, to hit:+13 SLA’s: not very impressive (Hallucinatory terrain is at least fairly unique). Bard spells (CL 6) all levels 1 & 2. Diplomacy +16 is a nice feature.
Elemental, greater (any) - 21 HD Huge elemental, HP:294-315, to hit:+23-25 The Earth elemental now has improved sunder, HP have passed the 300 point barrier – they are benefiting more from your ring and Augment a great deal. As with last level – these are now good combat summons. Unfortunately they aren’t evil, so unless you need a specific manouver (sunder/bull rush), or movement type – you are still better off with the evil combat choices.
Slaad, blue - 8 HD Large outsider, HP:112, to hit:+15 SLA’s at will: hold person, passwall, telekinisis. 1/day: Chaos hammer. CL 8. A bit weak in melee for the level though. The passwall at will is the premier feature here.
Fiendish giant squid(+1) - 12 HD Huge magical beast, HP:162, To hit:+17 Statistically, this is a far superior summons than the octopus last level. +31 grapple check.
Hellcat (devil)(+2) - 8 HD Large outsider, HP:120, to hit:+15 I want to like this – but the Dire Tiger is SO much better. The invisibility has been overrated IMO.
Fiendish monstrous centipede, colossal(0) - 24 HD Colossal magical beast, HP:312, to hit: +20 Yes – it’s colossal. You can now grapple with a +44. HP are very good. Attack is OK (tiger is better). Poison DC is now 25. Not your best melee option – but the grapple score is great (you can now hope to succeed grappling huge opponents).
Fiendish dire tiger(+1) - 16 HD Large magical beast, HP:240, to hit:+22 This is a nice charge summon. With large size it will only grapple Med or smaller opponents – but 5 charge attacks – 4 of them will be +24 to hit. Not your best choice against high DR creatures though since the attacks are spread out so much.
Fiendish monstrous spider, gargantuan(0) - 16 HD Gargantuan magical beast, HP:224, To hit:+17 Can web any size creature now. Otherwise a so-so choice.
Fiendish tyrannosaurus(+2) - 18 HD Huge magical beast, HP:315, To hit:+22 Lots of HP. Single strong attack. If the DR is a problem for the Dire Tiger – this guy can probably pound through it. Yeah – that’s 630 HP of summons in one spell – nice.
Vrock (demon)(+16) - 10 HD Large outsider, HP:190, To hit:+17 5 attacks/round. SLA’s: mirror image, telekinisis. 1/day: Heroism CL 12. Spores are free action every 3 rounds. DC 24 30 foot radius stun attack. 3 Vrocks can attempt dance of ruin (3 rounds) 100 foot radius 20d6 blast.
SLA's for SM VII: (Actual spells included as well)
Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/summon)
*Works on “self only”
Chaos Hammer – (4th)(Blue Slaad)(8/14)(1/day)
Charm Person – (1st)(Lillend)(10/15)(1/day)
Dancing Lights – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Darkness – (2nd)(Lillend)(10/x)(3/day)
Daze – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Detect Magic – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Hallucinatory Terrain – (4th)(Lillend)(10/18)(3/day)
Hold Person – (3rd)(Blue Slaad)(8/13)(at will)
Knock – (2nd)(Lillend)(10/x)(3/day)
Light – (0)(Lillend)(10/x)(3/day)
Lullaby – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Mage hand – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Mirror Image – (2nd)(Vrock)(12/x)(at will)
Read Magic – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Charm Person– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day)
Cure Light Wounds– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day)
Heroism – (3rd)(Vrock)(12/x)(1/day)
Identify– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day)
Sleep– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day)
Hold Person– (2nd)(Lillend)(6/16)(up to 3 times/day)
Invisibility– (2nd)(Lillend)(6/16)(up to 3 times/day)
Passwall – (5th)(Blue Slaad)(8/x)(at will)
Sound Burst – (2nd)(Lillend)(6/16)(up to 3 times/day)
Speak with Animals – (1st)(Lillend)(10/x)(1/day)
Speak with plants – (3rd)(Lillend)(10/x)(1/day)
Telekinisis – (5th)(Blue Slaad)(8/15)(at will)
Telekinisis – (5th)(Vrock)(12/16)(at will)
Things to know about SM IX:
Tidbits: It’s weird – usually level 9 spells are surprisingly better than 7-8 level spells, not so with SM. Dissapointing really. You might want to summon 1d3 SMVIII’s for combat. (Except I always roll a one!)
Combat: Because of malconvoker you want to stick with evil. However, elementals would otherwise be your best bet. For evil – if you have room, colossal spiders are good, as are gargantuan scorpions. Bebiliths get rend armor which is always good. Hezrou’s get stench and improved grab.
Outside Combat or non-melee combat abilities: Leonal’s wall of force at will is worth individual mention.
Mixed with the malconvoker: Bebiliths become your best combat choices unless you have lots of room (in which case, go with your bugs). HP aren’t as great as they might be, but mixed with Augment, Infernal Fury, and a ring of mighty summons – the HP will be multiple hundreds anyways. (Assuming Caster level 20, Bebilith has 260 HP). If space is an issue – the Barbed devil is a decent combatant for a medium creature (HP will be around 220), and has a nice fear effect (will save 20)
Deserving special mention: If you have the room – a Colossal Spider summoned with infernal fury (so easy at this level), a ring of mighty summons, and at least 4 levels of Master Specialist by a 20th level caster (your caster level for summons may be higher than this at 18th level) will have 468 HP. You can summon 2 with one spell – that’s almost 1000 HP of creature summoned with one spell. This puts summon elemental monolith to shame.
Treantmonk’s favourite: Fiendish Colossal Monstrous Spider – The spider starts and ends the list. They tend to be a weak choice inbetween – but look at it this level – that’s tough. Colossal size can be a problem though. Still, when you get the opportunity to summon a pair of these – it will be worth the wait.
They wasted our time with: Couatl, Green Slaad, Night Hag. What are any of these doing in SM IX? Night hag should be SM VII!
Couatl - 9 HD Large outsider, HP:108, To hit:+14 Use magic device +15 – that’s about the best of it. Some SLA’s and spells, nothing you haven’t seen with lower level summons.
Leonal (guardinal) - 12 HD Medium outsider, HP:180, To hit:+22 Actually a decent combat choice (except its non-evil alignment!). Decent protection choice (Protective aura 20’, +4 deflection, +4 resistance – both vs evil, lesser globe of invulnerability, magic circle against evil.) SLA highlights: At will: Wall of force, polymorph. 3/day: Cure critical wounds, neutralize poison, remove disease. 1/day: Heal. CL 10. Has Roar ability: 60’ cone holy word spell.
Celestial roc - 18 HD Gargantuan magical beast, HP:306, to hit:+23 Obviously a possible all-party transport (if you need it at this level). Otherwise, go air elemental for air combat.
Elemental, elder (any) - 24 HD Huge elemental, HP:336-360, To hit:+27-+29 all that much better than the greater elemental choices. More HP, slightly better to hit chance.
Slaad, green - 9 HD Large outsider, HP:126, to hit:+16 Not much here to brag about.
Devil, barbed(+17) - 12 HD Medium outsider, HP:216, to hit:+20 Any creature it hits makes DC 20 will save vs fear. Has improved grapple (grapple +24) – does extra damage in grapple.
Fiendish dire shark(+1) - 18 HD Huge magical beast, HP:282, to hit:+20 Not as good as you might think – but does have swallow whole ability (large size or smaller).
Fiendish monstrous scorpion, gargantuan(0) - 20 HD Gargantuan magical beast, HP:300, to hit:+23 Now a DC 25 fort save for poison. Attack scores aren’t bad for claws, improved grab with +39 grapple check. (Constrict damage is 2d6+12). Not bad at all. Improved grab + Gargantuan is a nice combination.
Night hag(+13) - 8 HD Medium outsider, HP:128, to hit:+14 Can’t see one reason to summon one. You’ve seen all the decent SLA’s and special abilities with cheaper SM’s.
Bebilith (demon)(+16) - 12 HD Huge outsider, HP:240, to hit:+21 The Bebilith’s web (which can trap up to gargantuan creatures) allows no movement at all. Rend armor is good against heavily armoured foes (If you can hit them at all – claw attacks +16 – you must hit with both). Poison is DC 26 and delivered with the +21 bite attack. Not a bad combat choice.
Fiendish monstrous spider, colossal(0) - 32 HD Colossal magical beast, HP:448, To hit:+28 Poison DC 30 (Str 2d8 loss) is very strong. Grapple is best of entire list at +52. 30’ reach. HP will be highest you can get too (896 HP on one summon spell). These are a lot better than the centipedes of last level. Great melee choice – if you can find the room.
Hezrou (demon)(+2) - 10 HD Large outsider, Sense Motive , HP:213, To hit:+16 Stench is a good ability. DC 26 Fort or be nauseated (any creature within 10’). Otherwise – with a +16 primary attack – you are in trouble if AC is decent.
SLA’s for Summon Monster IX (Also included regular spells, psionics that imitate spells, and Su abilities that imitate spells)
Spell Name (Spell level)(Creature that uses spell)(Caster level/DC)(times/day)
*Means self only
Blasphemy-(7th)(Hezrou)(13/21)(3/day)
Chaos Hammer –(4th)(Green Slaad)(9/15)(at will)
Chaos Hammer-(4th)(Hezrou)(13/18)(at will)
Charm Monster– (4th)(Couatl)(9/17)(up to 4 times/day)
Cure Critical Wounds-(4th)(Leonal)(10/16)(3/day)
Cure Minor Wounds– (0)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 6 times/day)
Cure Moderate Wounds– (2)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Daze– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day)
Deeper Darkness–(3rd)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(3/day)
Detect Chaos – (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Detect Chaos – (1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Detect Evil– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Detect Evil-(1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Detect Good– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Detect Good-(1st)(night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Detect Law– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Detect Law-(1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Detect magic–(0)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(at will)
Detect Magic-(0)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Detect Thoughts– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/15)(at will)
Detect Thoughts-(2nd)(Leonal)(10/15)(at will)
Detect Thoughts–(2nd)(Green Slaad)(9/13)(at will)
Dispel Law–(5th)(Green Slaad)(9/16)(3/day)
Disrupt Undead– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day)
Eagle’s Spendor– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Endure Elements– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Ethereal Jaunt– (7th)(Couatl)(16/x)(at will)
Etherealness-(9th)(Night hag)(16/x)(at will)
Fear–(4th)(Green Slaad)(9/15)(at will)
Fireball-(3rd)(Leonal)(10/15)(at will)
Fireball–(3rd)(Green Slaad)(9/14)(3/day)
Freedom of movement– (4th)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 4 times/day)
Gaseous Form– (3rd)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Gaseous Form-(3rd)(Hezrou)(13/x)(3/day)
Globe of Invulnerability, lesser*-(4th)(Leonal)(12/x)(always on)
Heal-(6th)(Leonal)(10/18)(1/day)
Hold Monster-(5th)(Leonal)(10/17)(at will)
Hold Person-(3rd)(Barbed Devil)(12/16)(at will)
Invisibility– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Light– (0)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 6 times/day)
Mage Armor– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Magic Circle Against Evil– (3rd)(Couatl)(9/16)(up to 7 times/day)
Magic Circle Against Evil*-(3rd)(Leonal)(12/x)(always on) – includes +4 to saves and AC
Magic Missile-(1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Major Image-(2nd)(Barbed Devil)(12/17)(at will)
Neutralize Poison-(4th)(Leonal)(10/x)(3/day)
Obscuring Mist– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Order’s Wrath-(4th)(Barbed Devil)(12/18)(1/day)
Polymorph*– (4th)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Polymorph-(4th)(Leonal)(10/x)(at will)
Polymorph*-(4th)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Protection from Chaos– (1st)(Couatl)(9/14)(up to 7 times/day)
Protection from Law–(1st)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(at will)
Ray of Enfeeblement-(2nd)(Night hag)(8/12)(at will)
Ray of Frost– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day)
Read Magic– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day)
Remove Disease-(3rd)(Leonal)(10/x)(3/day)
Resistance– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day)
Scorching Ray– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/15)(up to 7 times/day)
Scorching Ray– (2nd)(Barbed Devil)(12/x)(at will) – 2 rays only
See Invisibility–(2nd)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(at will)
Shatter–(2nd)(Green Slaad)(9/13)(at will)
Silence– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/15)(up to 7 times/day)
Sleep-(1st)(Night hag)(8/12)(at will)
True Strike– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Unholy Blight-(4th)(Barbed Devil)(12/18)(1/day)
Unholy Blight-(4th)(Hezrou Demon)(13/18)(at will)
Wall of force-(5th)(Leonal)(10/x)(at will)
Wind Wall– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Best SR’s by Summon level:
1: Fiendish Octopus/Celestial Porpoise: 7
2: Bee/Centipede/Squid/Shark: 8
3: Fiendish Centipede: 11
4: Shark: 12 (land based: Wolf/Viper: 11)
5: Bearded Devil: 17
6: Xill: 21
7: Avoral: 25
8: Fiendish Colossal Centipede: 25
9: Leonal (Guardinal): 28 (Best evil – Spider: 25)
General guidelines for non-summoning spells and how they work with your summoned creatures.
Here's the most general guidelines I can give:
Summoned Monsters are intended to keep your enemies away from you, to eat up their attacks, to prevent their attacks, and ultimately to kill or incapacitate them.
They are intended to be expendable - never forget that.
A SM that dies has done its job for you.
Vision Obscurement: The spells which cause vision obscurement are too many to mention, but include fog/mist/darkness spells most commonly.
These can be very helpful spells. Most fog/mist spells will reduce enemy vision to 5'. If the SM is all they can see - it is likely that is what they will attack. This is good for you and your allies.
Furthermore - SM with Blindsense or Tremorsense (Bats, Scorpions, Spiders) will be able especially effective in these environments.
Movement reductions: The spells which prevent or slow movement from your enemies can also be very helpful.
These spells will encourage opponents to focus on the opponents that are closer. It is your job to ensure said opponent is a SM.
As mentioned before - any attack on a SM is an attack that was not made on your allies (and even more importantly - you)
Offensive Buffing: The spells which make your SM better offensively are also very useful for obvious reasons.
Polymorph is the king of these buffs. For a quick example consider a Gargantuan Centipede (SM VI) might be turned into a 12-headed hydra - giving 11 extra attacks.
Haste is probably #2 - but may be #1 if you have lots of summoned creatures on the ground.
Remember that Str buffs do not stack with augment summoning.
Defensive Buffing: For the most part I would suggest that this isn't worthwhile.
It is your SM job to take damage after all, and they are all easily replaced. Mage Armor IS very cheap though (and at high levels, Mage Armor - mass is also quite cheap) and gives a +4 AC that will be stackable with almost any SM.
I would suggest any Defensive buff that is not at least 2 levels lower than the slot used to summon the creature in the first place is a waste.
Healing: This is pretty much always a terrible choice.
Save your healing for your allies. Your summons are going to dissapear soon anyways.
Giving an extra round or two through healing isn't going to pay off in the long run. (The exception might be a "Heal" spell on a SM IX that is taking loads of HP damage over an extended period. That's about it)
Summon Monster and your other spells:
Generalizations:
Fog/Mist spells: These all are great when combined with Spiders, Scorpions and Dire Bats. Your opponents can't see - but they can.
Call Zelekut, Call Marut, Call Kolyarut: See my MYTHS section. These are inferior spells - honest! Your summoned monsters are much tougher at the same level - your planar bindings last much longer - and neither require XP.
Level 1:
Grease: Use your Summoned Grappler to grapple the enemy - then cast a grease underneath them to watch the pair grappling on the ground. This makes it twice as hard as the BBEG that has a good grapple score to dispatch your creature as the grapple gets re-engaged and re-engaged again.
Mage Armor: In a wand this is great (since duration of 1/hr is plenty). Your summoned creatures have Dex and Nat armor, but no actual armor. Mage armor is perfectly stackable with any of them. Not bad at all.
Obscuring Mist: Any of the mist/fog spells work great when combined with creatures that use Blindsense/Tremorsense. That includes all the Fiendish Scorpions, Spiders and Dire Bats. Now they can see your opponent, but your opponent can't see them (Or you)
Benign Transposition: This spell is so incredibly useful for a summoner it isn't funny. Your pal is in the jaws of the Purple Worm - ready to be swallowed whole? Switch him with your perfectly willing first level summoned creature. Unfortunately for the Purple Worm - that creature will be like chinese food - he'll be hungry again a few rounds later. Any time you want to get an ally out of harms way - this spell mixed with a summoned monster is HUGE. Keep in mind that you can switch yourself with a summoned creature with this spell too.
Level 2:
Fog Cloud: See obscuring mist
Glitterdust: Throw this on the combat in which your Spider, Scorpion or Dire Bat is involved. Everyone gets blinded - of course your summoned creatures have other ways of sensing your opponents.
Web: To be used when your opponents decide they would like to leave the vicinity of your summoned creatures. (*Nice* - my DM has houseruled that spiders can traverse web spells. That makes this spell extra tasty. Ask your DM today)
Baleful Transposition: So who actually wants to switch places with the enemy caster and be completely surrounded by his bodyguard. Your summoned creature - that's who.
Chain of Eyes: This is a useful "scouting" spell. Plop it on your summoned creature and send them ahead - they can pass it off to the next one as needed.
Snake's Swiftness: Give your summoned creature a free attack. Best for use with the heavy hitters with a single attack.
Level 3:
Stinking Cloud: Don't bother. Use SMIII to summon a Dretch and have it cast this for you. Then have the Dretch cast scare, then have the Dretch enter melee. See???
Mage Armor, Mass: The hugeness of this spell after level 5 Malconvoker should be self-evident. Very good!
Haste: Mass buff that gives all your creatures measurable bonuses. This works best when combined with single attack creatures.
Mass Snake's Swiftness: This can be a show-stopper. Surround your enemy with allies and summoned creatures then cast this for lots of fun.
Dimension Step: Move your allies around for maximum tactical advantage
Level 4:
Evard's black tenticles: For non-malconvokers only. You can summon creatures with just as good grapple scores. By level 10 you can summon multiple creatures with much higher grapple scores and improved grab - that do more damage, take hits etc. Isn't being a Malconvoker fun?
Bloodstar: This makes me so happy! *wipes tear from eye*. Imagine this - a bloodstar over an enemy - then have your 2 Fiendish Tigers charge. One claw - loose a con point, 2 claw - loose a con point, 1 bite - loose a con point, 1 rake - loose a con point, 2 rake - loose a con point. That's the first tiger...This might be a better enhancement for multiple attack critters than polymorph!
Translocation Trick: Your opponent Monk rushes to grapple the caster - wow this caster is a great grappler - and he squeezes tight too! It's almost like he's a huge constrictor snake or something...
Polymorph: Almost too obvious to make the list. Look at the Centipedes as your ultimate polymorph since they always have the most HD for their spell level. You can use a Gargantuan Centipede to make the viscous 12-headed variety. I believe by RAW if you haste it, then it will have 24 attacks with a full attack.
Level 6:
Acid Fog: This combines very nicely with any acid resistant creatures (Devils and Demons for sure). Have them grapple your foe - then hit them with this. Even non acid-resistant summons can work this way. So what if your summoned creature dies along with the opponent?
Level 7:
Brillaint Aura: This will give all your summoned creatures a significant offensive boost (transmutation)
The lesser planar binding spell should be available at character level 10 for most Malconvokers.
You will need a Magic Circle Against X. Magic Circle against evil can be used in binding any non-good creature, Magic Circle against good can be used to bind any non-evil creature - so if you have both you have covered all your basis. (Or against Law and Chaos if you prefer.)
Use your Spellcraft to fortify the circle.
Pick an extradimensional creature with 6 HD or less (preferably one with a lower CHA score)
Offer them a deal, as in "Serve me unquestioningly for the next 8 days".
You then have a CHA contest with the creature. The DM will give you a positive modifier if you sweeten the deal.
Spells to use to help you:
Naturally - you shouldn't fight fair. Use these spells to tilt the contest in your favor:
Enchantment:2nd: Touch of idiocy (PHB): 1d6 loss to CHA
2nd: Rebuke (SC): Shaken subject (-2 Ability checks)
2rd: Mechanus Mind (SC): Gives a bunch of bonuses, but -2 to CHA checks
3rd: Suggestion (PHB): Possibly just suggest the creature agree to your terms
4th: Charm Monster (PHB): Make the creature want to be your ally
4th: Crushing Despair (PHB): -2 to ability checks
4th: Geas, Lesser (PHB): 1 day/level up to 7HD - force them to accept your terms
Transmutation:
2nd: Eagles Splendor (PHB – Abj): +4 Cha (enhancement)
Necromancy:
1st: Cause Fear: (As Rebuke)
2nd: Scare: (as cause fear or Rebuke)
2nd: Ray of Sickness: Cause sickened effect (-2 to ability checks)
4th: Bestow Curse: Use 2x. Lower CHA by 6, then lower ability checks by 4
4th: Enervation: Negative levels (-1 to ability checks per level lost)
Of course you should get the other casters in the party to help you if possible. I have a Beguiler in mine and we have an agreement for Lesser Bindings. ;)
Here's some creatures you might want to consider Binding:[/SIZE]
Barghest: Neutral Evil. Cha 14. Has some great SLA's, and good in combat too.
Bearded Devil: Lawful Evil. CHA 10. Good combatant. Can be your bodyguard.
Bralani (Eladrin): Chaotic Good. CHA 14. These guys are great - but your alignment could be in danger if you start enslaving good outsiders.
Elemental, Medium: Neutral. Cha 11. Not particularly tough - but as scouts they can be fairly useful.
Formian Taskmaster: Lawful Neutral. CHA 19. The CHA is a little high - but they get Dominate Monster as a (Su) ability. Wow!
Janni, Genie: Neutral. Cha 13. A decent choice. Invisibility (self), Move silently, Listen and spot makes them a decent scout. They are OK in combat as well.
Succubus (Demon): Chaotic Evil. CHA 26. The CHA is insane - but if you complete the spells I suggested above - it is do-able. The SLA's are great - including Charm Monster at will.
Hell Hound: Lawful Evil. CHA 6. Easy CHA test. Not the toughest choice - but easier to control.
Howler: Chaotic Evil. CHA 8. Easy CHA test - and pretty tough too. Just a tank for you.
Nightmare: Neutral Evil. CHA 12. Now you ride in style.
Shadow Mastiff: Neutral Evil. CHA 13. Not bad, you can't even SM these things yet.
Xill: Lawful Evil. CHA 11. As the Shadow Mastiff.
Binding the Succubus: Treantmonk's guide:
So you want to bind a Succubus, but the 26 CHA scares you? Here's what you do (lets assume you are a conjurer with a 10 CHA):
You are at least 8th level - so pony up the 4,500 and get a circlet of persuasion.
Cast Magic Circle against evil. Use Spellcraft to fortify it.
Cast Lesser Planar Binding - call the Succubus.
Cast a Geas on her first thing. "Drink a glass of water from the pitcher over there." Point to a pitcher outside the circle. Wait 4 days.
:evillaugh 
Cast Eagle's splendor before you return.
Now hit her with Bestow Curse. Her saves are currently at -8 (total will save -1). As long as you peirce SR you are golden (if not - cast again!). Suddenly her saves/checks are at -12
Now hit her with Cause Fear. Now she's frightened (or shaken if by some miracle she saves). Her ability checks are now at -14
Time to propose a deal. No reason to make it lovely. Ask her to serve you for the remainder of the spell - to follow all your commands, in both word and intent, to never take action that could harm you, and to give you her true name. - and she will be released at the end of the spell. This is a crappy deal for her - so you get no bonus to negotiation.
Her negotiate modifier: -6
Your negotiate modifier: +5
You should win.
If there's any doubt - go ahead and pony up 3000 gp for a Moment of Prescience scroll. It's a one shot deal - but the additional +16 to your roll makes this a sure thing.
Once she agrees -drop the cause fear, the curse, and the circle (so she can have her drink of water). She's back to normal.
Now you give her the warning. "I know your true name now - if you ever screw me over - during the duration of the spell, or afterwards - I'll use it to summon you again. I'll also cast again and summon an IMP. I'll give the imp this deal - "do whatever you want to this succubus for the duration of the spell - and I expect nothing in return.", you'll be defensless in one of those circles you were just in, but I'll let him out of his, I expect the Imp will take the deal - I get the impression they have LOADS of built up hostility."
Preventing Revenge:
You should expect that the outsider won't be happy you Bound it. It may consider revenge. Travel to the material plane isn't easy for evil outsiders (which is why they haven't invaded). However, it may visit this world again - and it will remember you. You have options as to how to prevent its retaliation:
A) Scare it straight. Demons/Devils have no immunity to fear. If you have it's true name you can call it again and do something horrible to it. The threat of such an act (if they believe you) may deter them from attempting revenge. You do hold the superior hand in this game.
B) Finish the job. Nothing says the Demon/Devil will survive the entire Planar Binding. Since its a called creature, not a summoned one, if you kill it, it's gone for good.
Planar Binding works exactly like lesser planar binding except now the HD limit is 12. It is truly quite amazing the power level of creatures you can call with this spell. Here's some good options:
(If you've taken the 6th level of Malconvoker - you can effectively drop the CHA of evil Planar Bindings by 10.)
Creatures that you can call with Planar Binding:
Greater Barghest (lawful evil) - Hmmm...mass enlarge and mass bull's strength as SLA's - invisibility sphere at will. CHA is 18
Bebilith (Chaotic Evil) - Normally a SM IX summons. CHA is only 13. Great tank.
Efreeti (Lawful Evil) - Cha 15. Pretty good combatant. Iconically, the Efreeti are the masters of misinterpretation of commands - so be careful.
Glabrezu (Chaotic Evil) - Crazy tough. CHA is 20 though. Has permanent True Seeing too which is nice. How about SMITE?
Bone Devil (Lawful Evil) - useful summons. CHA only 14. Wall of Ice and Dimensional anchor at will
Nessian Warhound (Lawful Evil) - One tough puppy. CHA is 6 - so super easy summon.
Night Hag (Chaotic Evil) - CHA 12, pretty easy summon with some decent SLA's for your level.
Rakshasa (Lawful Evil) - CHA 17. I love that these guys have haste. You summon - Rakshasa Hastes your summons.
Grey Slaad (Chaotic Neutral) - CHA 14. This is a great Binding. Invisibility and fly as SLA's at will. Have him Invisible and Fly you and your party and your summons. Watch out for the flying invisible colossal fiendish centipede!!!
Formain Myrmarch (Lawful Neutral) - CHA 17. Your party's new diviner. Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, detect thoughts, detect chaos all at will. Oh yeah - charm monster and magic circle against chaos at will too.
If you've reached Malconvoker 8 - your HD limit is 14, and you can summon these goliaths
Nalfenshnee (Chaotic Evil) - CHA 20, but can Greater Dispel at will, feeblemind at will, call lightning at will
Ice Devil (Lawful Evil) - CHA 20, Cone of cold, Ice storm Wall of Ice - all at will
Planetar (good): You're alignment is in trouble - but these are crazy good. I've avoided good creatures up to now, but the temptation might be too much. Hey, they aren't that great- they only have 2 9th level spells/day. In addition to the rest of the Cleric 17th level spells, and loads of SLA's.
Wishes and planar binding: Technically - you can planar bind a Nelfanshee or an Efreeti and get wishes. Technically. If you have a gullable DM, you might get away with this campaign-breaker. More likely your DM will wisely Rule 0 it immediately.
OK hot shot. Level 16, and Greater Planar Binding has become available. If you are even going to think about using this spell - you probably should have been thinking CHA for awhile now.
Lets face it - if you're like me you are thinking PIT FIEND. If you can bind 20 HD creatures you are thinking BALOR. There aren't alot of choices at this level (at least in the MM), but those two are the big kahunas.
Here's the possibilities:
Low - CHA bindings:
Abyssal Greater Basalisk: CHA 15 - CR 12, Best feature: DC 21 petrification
Death Slaad: CHA 18 - CR 13, Best Feature: Implosion 1/day.
High - CHA bindings:
Marilith: CHA 24 - CR 17, best feature: 10 attacks on Full Attack
Horned Devil: CHA 22 - CR 16, best feature: attack causes DC 27 stun effect
Pit Fiend: CHA 26 - CR 20, the best evil Planar Binding for Malconvokers that broke at lvl 5. Everything is good about these guys.
The 19-20 HD Greater Planar Bindings for those who stuck it out with Malconvoker:
Balor: CHA 26 - CR 20. The ultimate Planar Binding? WAY too much to cover here - they rock and we all know it.
Formain Queen: CHA 21 - CR 17. Not evil (but binding her is probably not all that evil since she isn't good either). She doesn't move - but with a large size she could be moved. She casts up to 8th level sorcerer spells.
How bad do you want the Balor?
Enough to cast another 8th level spell? Moment of Prescience will do the trick for you.
So you are rolling with:
+16 MoP
+3 Circlet of Persuasion
+3 Charisma Enhancement bonuses
+1 Charisma Insight bonus (approx by this level)
Total: +23 - with a base CHA of 10 and without getting to cheesy.
The Balor:
+8 Base Cha
So if you roll a 5 or higher - the Balor doesn't even get to roll. If you don't, the Balor better roll above 15 or there's no point even doing the math.
Thank you vecnagash for the hint ;)
Red: Must have
Blue: High Priority
Green: Nice to have - but you can live without
Rod of Extend, Lesser: This is the first item I suggest you buy. It is fairly cheap (3000 gp) and will be an invaluable tool right up to level 7. After that - it will still come in handy to extend the life of your Monstrous Spider and Dire Bat scouts.
Circlet of Persuasion: Once you become a Malconvoker, this should be the next item on you list. Not too expensive (4500 gp), and it gives a +3 competance bonus on all CHA checks. That helps both your Bluff and Planar Bindings.
Admiral's Bicorn: This is a magic item for later on as it costs a stiff 51,000 gp. However, it will give a nice unnamed bonus to CHA checks as well as a morale bonus to attacks etc. of allies (including your summoned creatures)
Sandals of the vagabond: Gives a +2 initiative and immunity to exhaustion. It's the +2 initiative that is the biggest draw for me. Depends on what niche your Malconvoker is filling.
Ring of Mighty Summons: This item is a no-brainer. 14,000 gp isn't bad for a ring, and your Deceptive Summoning will cancel out the 1/2 duration penalty. My suggestion is to get it by level 10. As this is usable 3/day, you might want 2. (Or 3 with a Hand of Glory)
Rod of Silent Spell: Around the mid levels are your best chance to get hit with a Silence Spell. Therefore the Rod of Silent Spell is the right Metamagic Rod for those levels. Still not too expensive - and very handy to have.
Magic Staves: Any staff with Summon Monster rocks in your hands. It can also free up some much appriciated spell slots for other spells: Healing/Conjuration depending on what kind of spellcaster you are.
Choker of Eloquence, Greater: +10 competance bonus to Bluff (and some other stuff - who cares?). This doesn't stack with your circlet of Persuasion, but the extra +7 to bluff makes it a worthy aquisition.
Rod of Maximize, Greater: At the high levels, the metamagic rod you want is this one. Getting 4 ice devils with a Summon Monster VIII is a great deal.
Headband of Intellect: Obviously a good investment. Get more spells, better DC's (for those Planar Binding Enchantment/Necromancy enhancers), and more skill points (can't have too many knowledges). If you use combining rules - combine it with the Circlet of Persuasion. Otherwise - maybe eyeglasses of intellect?
Cloak of Charisma: Also a good investment. Boost your Bluff and Planar Binding checks, and completely stackable with the Circlet of Persuasion.
Panic Button: I recommend picking a couple of these up (Dimension Door). You gave up immediate magic so you could get Rapid Spell. It was a worthy trade, but leaves a hole - and this is your patch.
Ring of Invisibility: Invisibility + Summoning is a great combination. I think it's pretty self-evident.
Rod of Rapid Spell, any: For a Cleric build - this could be alot easier than finding various ways to be able to use the feat for free. Recently another thread pointed out that not all Arcane casters get to use the UA variants - so for them this is an option too.
Golden Desert Honey (CM): For 300 gp per dose, it allows any summoning spell that normally requires a full round action to be cast as if Rapid Spell were placed upon it. For long term use, this is too cost restrictive - but for emergencies - carrying 2-3 doses of this could be a very cheap lifesaver.
Ehlonna's Brooch/Natures children:Worthy of special mention. I can't imagine my Malconvoker worshipping Elhonna/Nature - but if you choose for yours to - you will get +1 HP/HD on summons, and +1 CL. They cost you next to nothing, and it's all completely legal - but the cheese reeks from where I'm standing.
Some Malconvoker Builds
If you have any good Cleric malconvoker builds - make sure to post them!
Conjurer (UA variants: Rapid summon, Enhanced Summon) 3/Master Specialist 10/Malconvoker 6/Paragnostic Apostle 1
(Gets 3 quickened SM IX per day - all summons get Fast Healing 5)
Conjurer (UA variants: Rapid summon, Enhanced Summon) 10/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialist 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1
(Augment Summoning increases to +6/+6 plus Fast Healing 5)
Conjurer (UA variants: Rapid summon, Enhanced Summon) 5/Malconvoker 5/Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 3
Takes advantage of the nice IotSV abilities while maintaining summoning ability.
Conjurer (UA variants as above) 3/Master specialist 4/Malconvoker 6/Paragnostic Apostle 3/Fatespinner 4
(This will probably end up being my current character's final build. A couple extra levels of Paragnostic Apostle to get some of the other stuff - Fatespinner to insure against failed Bluff/sense motive tests or Opposed CHA tests)
Conjurer (UA variants as above) 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Nar Demonbinder 1/Ultimate Magus 9
(Lots of 4th and 5th level spells if you like that. Still gets 9th level casting ability. The final spellcasting level for your Nar Demonbinder spells is sick.)
Sorcerer 6/Malconvoker 9/Thaumaturgist 5
(All summons are extended for free)
Conjurer (UA variants) 1/Cleric 5/Malconvoker 9/Contemplative 5
(Takes advantage of the Rapid Summoning variant for a Cleric build. This makes the cleric build more potent on SM spells. However - two spellcasting levels are lost altogether.)
Conjurer (UA variants) 1/Sorcerer 6/Malconvoker 5/Fatespinner 4/Paragnostic apostle 3
(Takes advantage of the Rapid Summoning variant for a Sorcerer build. Now you get Rapid Summoning with spontaneous casting. However - two spellcasting levels are lost - and this is on the Sorcerer "one level behind" chart)
Archivist 11/Malconvoker 9
A simple archavist build that works nicely.
Archivist 9/Malconvoker 9/Sacred Exorcist 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1
Highlights are turn undead and fast healing for summoned creatures - worked into the Archavist build.
Archivist 9/Malconvoker 9/Sacred Exorcist 1/Contemplative 1
Another Archavist build. This one uses Contemplative to get access to the Summoning domain.
Archivist 7/Malconvoker 9/Uncanny Trickster 3/Sacred Exorcist 1
This is a build based more on versatility. It will lose 2 spellcasting levels, but will have a better host of skills/tricks.
(A special thanks to stmunks for his insight into ways to use the Archavist as an effective base class entry)
Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialst 3-10/Wyrm Wizard 2:
(Uses Wyrm Wizard to pick up Arcane Fusion, Greater. If your DM rules that you can add Metamagic for free to Arcane Fusioned spells - you can get a REAL legion of Bone Devils at level 20. Click HERE to see Edzero's build - please check with your DM before making this build though - for the Arcane Fusion interpretation is necessary for the build to work.)
These deserve some special mention. If you are playing any kind of summoner at all, you should ask your DM on their opinion on these variants. They all are advantageous to you.
A) Specific Creatures: This is huge - think about SM IV for example. The difference of the Howler from the Dire Wolf is small. So which to summon? Easy - roll stats for both and pick the one you got lucky with.
Keep in mind that rolling stats for every creature you summon would be fantastically time consuming.
Also - the advantage of resummoning the same creature is obvious - Use your summon elemental reserve feat to summon an earth elemental. Send him through the wall - listen for carnage ensuing. The next day, you re-summon the earth elemental:
Malconvoker: "What killed you on the other side of that wall?"
Earth Elemental: "This time it was a Werebear. P.S.: I hate you."
It is so amusing to think that poor celestial monkey I keep summoning to be my "trapmonkey" is always the same monkey.
B) Replacing Creatures: Wow - this is a no-brainer if your DM allows it. If you have a sticky DM - you can just take the best Celestial Creatures, and switch them for Fiendish Creatures -thus applying Fiendish Legion, Infernal Fury, and Deceptive Summons.
C) Improving Creatures: There may be alignment problems equipping a bunch of evil creatures to the hilt - but giving your Bearded Devil an adamantium Glaive is an interesting idea.
Generalizations: Myths usually have some basis in truth. This is the case with all these myths. First time I looked at Summon Monster I was less then impressed. A quick flip through the MM revealed that the creatures available were underwhelming for the level of spell.
I didn't seriously consider specializing in Summon Monster until the Malconvoker. Infernal Legion was the key. It also is the key to dispelling these common myth-steps.
Myth #1:
Druids are better summoners than any arcane build.
This is based on the truth that a core Druid makes a better summoner then a core Cleric/Wizard. What makes this a myth when you include non-core is that a Druid is not twice as good - which he would need to be to keep pace after Infernal Legion.
Also, a Cleric (with summoning domain) and a Wizard (Focused Specialist Conjurer) will be able to summon far more creatures due to the vastly superior number of castings they have over the Druid.
Myth #2:
The CR of Summon Monster creatures does not keep up with your level - so high level Summon Monster spells suck.
This is true - if you aren't specialized. A Malconvoker is doubling the number of creatures, and increasing their HP by 2 per HD. Augment Summoning is increasing HP by 2 per HD. Augment Summoning is adding to TO HIT scores. Augment Summoning and Malconvoker are adding to damage. Master Specialist 4 adds your caster level to the HP of creatures summoned. Add a few of these things together - and the creature you summoned won't look anything like what you saw in the MM.
The number you saw beside "CR" in the MM does not nearly define the creature(s) you just summoned.
Think of it like playing a fighter. If your combat style is always approach enemy - roll die - roll damage, you will suck. In order to make the fighter work, you must use your skills and feats to improve your combat ability and options. You must make sure that the increases to hit and to damage outpace your standard bonuses for levelling.
It is the same with the Summoner. If you are not focusing on Summon Monster - you will suck at it. If you focus at it - you can shine
Myth #3
Clerics make better summoners than wizards because they get the same spells at the same level, but are better in all non-spellcasting ways.
This is definitely true if you are using core-only. However, the addition of non-core material makes this comparison harder and harder to make. Clerics can use Divine Metamagic to fuel Rapid Spell, as well as other metamagics (though it has limited uses per day). Furthermore they get access to the Summoning Domain (this isn't a huge advantage - but still nice).
Wizards can get Rapid Summoning (this is the big one), Focused Specialist, and have a range of spells I consider superior when synergized with summoning.
Each has their advantages and disadvantages.
Myth #4
You can't make a good Arcane build if you take a PrC that makes you give up a caster level
After Complete Arcane came out this was definitely true. The key was that in no case did the class abilities come close to making up for an entire lost level of spellcasting. Infernal Legion is what makes this a myth for Summoners. One level of spellcasting does not double the power of your spells - infernal legion does.
Myth #5
Wizards are useless in an antimagic zone - like the eye ray of a beholder.
Partially True. All casters have a tough time in anti-magic zones. A summoner has an advantage over other casters though since their pre-summoned creatures get an SR check vs the anti-magic. This means you should focus on summoning high SR creatures in these cases (such as the Xill).
Myth #6
Wizards are useless against magic immune creatures - like Golems.
This is based on the idea that spellcasters are bad against golems - which can be true. Actually, the opposite is true for any summoner. Most casters are somewhat gimped by Golems, summoners are not really affected at all since the Golems magical immunity does not protect them from summoned creatures.
Myth #7
Summon Monster IX sucks - just compare it to Summon Elemental Monolith:
This is definitely true for most casters. An Elemental Monolith is just tougher than a Fiendish Colossal Spider. However, if you compare the stats - a pair of Fiendish Colossal Spiders buffed with Infernal Fury have the combat advantage.
This also doesn't factor in that SM spells are always more versitle then specific summon spells.
Myth #8
Summon Monster/Planar Binding aren't as good as the Call Inevitable spells
This is true for a pathetic non-malconvoker - for you it's not.
Call inevitable. Consider the first available - Call Zelekhut. This is a 5th level spell that summons 1-74 HP creature. No Augment summoning (it's a calling spell), no Ring of Mighty Summons, No Infernal Fury.
Or - you could summon 2 creatures with an equivalent level spell that each have 100+ hp, better BAB, Better Damage, Better Grapple, etc etc etc. However, you don't get to spend the 100 xp - sorry.
If Duration is important to you - a Planar Binding, Lesser is the same level. It also won't cost you any XP, and has a duration of 1 day/level. Call Zelekhut? One hour.
The others are no better compared to equivalent level spells cast by a Malconvoker.
Malconvoker (Complete Scoundrel) - Augment Summoning & Spell Focus (Conjuration) & cast Sum. Mon. III
Master Specialist (Complete Mage) [Conjuration] - Spell Focus (Conjuration) & be a specialist wizard
Wyrm Wizard (Dragon Magic)
Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialst 3-10/Wyrm Wizard 2 - lose 2 spell casting levels (1 from Malconvoker & 1 from Wyrm Wizard)
Schools of magic to give up:
Enchantment - No Domination spells for me.. that's why a monster will dominate for me!
Evocation (7th level spells are gotten from Shadow Evocation, Greater [Illusion] PHB)
Feats:
1) Augment Summoning (PHB), Spell Focus (Conjuration) [PHB], Extend Spell (PHB) +1 spell slot
3) Quicken Spell (PHB) +4 spell slot
6) Arcane Thesis (PHBII) - use with Extend Spell for summon monster.
9) Summon Elemental Reserve Feat (CM)
12) Twin Spell (CA) - +4 spell slot
15) Repeat Spell (CA) - +3 spell slot
18) Heighten Spell (PHB) - +1 to +8 slot
Alternate Class Features:
Rapid Summoning (Conjurer) [UA] - All summons are a standard action. With Master Specialist 10, you can summon 2 creatures a turn (1 swift and 1 standard) which will actually be 4 creatures with fiendish legion (Malconvoker 5 ability)
use the UA variant that gives up scribe scroll for Augment Summoning (so you dont have to take the feat)
Items to buy: - 760,000 gold for 20th level character.
Headband of Intellect +6 - 36,000 gp
Tome of Clear Thought +5 - 137,000 gp.
Pearl of Power - 64,000 gp (8th level spells) - able to regain 1 8th level spell/day
Ring of Mighty SUmmons (CM - 14,000 gp - max hp but half duration 3/day
Elhonna's Brooch (CC pg.134) - +1 hp/HD for all summons
Nature's Children (CC pg. 135) - +1 Caster level for summoning
Desperation Chain (MiC) - 15,000 - Lets you cast a 3rd level or lower spell while grappled.. summon 2 3rd level monsters to get the guy off your back. 1/day
The meat of the build:
Arcane Fusion, Greater (CM) - You don't lose any spell slots when casting the sub-spells of arcane fusion, meaning you can apply metamagic feats to them for no cost! I took Wyrm Wizard to get this spell.. meaning I can now cast 1 7th level summon creature spell & 1 4th level summon creature spell and get 4 creatures. Load them up with metamagic feats.. like twin spell, repeat spell metamagic for a total of 8 summons the first round (4 normally + twin spell) and 8 the 2nd round all for free
This translates into:
Round 1:
Cast Arcane Fusion, Greater and get 4 monsters (2 level 7's & 2 level 4's). Now you apply twin, quicken, extend and repeat on these spells meaning that you get another 2 monsters of each level now totaling 8 monsters (4 7th level & 4 4th level due to twin). Quicken's not going to do anything this round, it'll help next round tho. Total for the round is 8.
Round 2: - The crazyness ensues!
Because of repeat spell, the 7th level summon monster spell is repeated along with the twin spell applied to it, giving you 8 monsters automatically. Your also able to cast AF,G once more this round due to Quicken (giving you another 8 monsters.
The total monsters now are 28 [8(Round 1)+24(Round 2)].
8 from repeated twinned casting of summon monster 4 and 7 from last round
8 from arcane fusion, greater casting (4 of each + twinned and repeated)
8 from quickened arcane fusion, greater from last round
Round 3: - It comes to an end!
We actually run out of AF,G spells to cast, unless you have a INT of at least 34 to be able to cast it 2 more times.
As long as you can keep casting AF,G, from here on out every round the totals will always be like round 2 (8+16+8[manual casting AF,G]).
The total this round will be 56 [8(r1)+24(r2)+24(r3)].
Round 4: This is where it actually runs out.
The reason being that it actually runs is:
Round 1: You cast 1 AF,G
Round 2: You cast 2
Round 3: You cast 2 - You normally run out here if you dont have that 34 INT by only casting 1 AF,G
Round 4: Your able to cast 1 (with a Headband of Intellect +6 and a Tome of Clear Thought +5)
Round 4 totals would be 80 [8(r1)+24(r2)+24(r3)+24(r4)]
Round 5: - This is the Repeated Twinned summoning from Round 4 since you have nothing else to cast
Total now is 88. [8(r1)+24(r2)+24(r3)+24(r4)+8(r5)]
Taking Treants advice, the creatures that you would be using to summon with Summon Monster IV and VII are Howlers and Bone Devils.. lots and lots of them.
Mind you, these are all under the effect extend spell, which means that they're actually normal duration while using the Ring of Mighty Summons.
Summon Elemental Reserve Feat:
Any elemental that you summon from this feat is affected by fiendish legion (Malconvoker 5), meaning that for free, you can summon 2 elementals of your choosing! Use this when you run out of higher level summoning spells.
HD Example:
Using a Colossal Monsterous Fiendish Spider as the example
It has 32d8+64 HP, which totals 256+64=320
with Infernal Fury+Augment Summoning, your spider is getting an extra 64 hp x2. 256+64+64+64(CON)=448
With Minor School Esoterica, your spider will get an extra 20 hp. 256+64+64+64+20=468
Along with Elhonna's Brooch, that gives you another 32 hp. 256+64+64+64++20+32=500
Total CL:
18 - Normal
+1 - Summon Elemental Reserve Feat
+1 - Nature's Children
+2 - Master Specialist
--
22
Cheese Note:
At 18 you have Heighten (cause you'll get AF,G when your 19) and when you cast your summoning subspells through AF,G, you'll just be summoning Fiendish Colossal Monsterous Spiders.. 8 at a time. Time to run over the countryside!
You can also use Heighten as a +1 metamagic so that Arcane Thesis will negate it, meaning that all of your normal Summon Monster Spells will be the next Summon Monster spell up (ie: Summon Monster 3 turns into IV).
P.S. - Treantmonklvl20, your guide is awesome. I love it!
I think the Celestial Bison's DR is worth mentioning. With all those hp and DR/5 magic they almost never go down in a fight at level 5 or 6. They are the only summon III that gets it I believe.
Also you have a tactic of creature counterspelling with the dispel magic SLA. You can't counterspell with SLA, it says pp 180 PHB. Of course readying to beat the snot out of the caster usually does the trick.
I love the malconvoker, and wish I had had the chance to play one.
[Celestial Bison] are the only summon III that gets it I believe.
Actually, both Fiendish ape & Fiendish monstrous centipede, huge gain DR/5
Great guide
Agreed :D
Also - thanks to Mordantos, Ancillary and Ed-Zero for the compliments. Much appriciated!
I think the Celestial Bison's DR is worth mentioning. With all those hp and DR/5 magic they almost never go down in a fight at level 5 or 6. They are the only summon III that gets it I believe.
4 HD is the cut-off, so Apes, Centipedes (as mentioned my Mordantos ) and Dire Bats are all getting it too. However - the DR is worth mention on all those creatures entries for use when comparing to the other SMIII's.
These 4 summons are your best summons at this level anyways - but now moreso - it is definitely worth special mention - I will do so. Thanks.
Also you have a tactic of creature counterspelling with the dispel magic SLA. You can't counterspell with SLA, it says pp 180 PHB. Of course readying to beat the snot out of the caster usually does the trick.
Huh! I learn something new all the time. Thanks for the heads-up! I'll correct that.
Here's my take on the Malconvoker.. after looking it over for a bit, I came up with this build. I've also gone over it a couple of times to make sure everything adds up correctly. So, hopefully there's no mistakes in it.
Very interesting - makes my mouth water. I'm going to kick the tires a bit though - because I smell some kinks in the build that I need to check out.
I need to point out I don't have Dragon Magic - so if Wrym Wizard takes care of any of this stuff - let me know.
1) Arcane Fusion, Greater lets you pick any two sorcerer spells you know of 4th and 7th level. Since Summon Monster spells are wizard spells for you, they don't apply (unless Wrym Wizard changes that).
2) This is the big question. The way I read Arcane Fusion - you can't apply metamagic to the 4th and 7th level spells selected. If metamagic could be applied to them - it would require special mention. (or at least I believe so - if this is incorrect - point me to the rule I'm missing - or is there a special ability in Wyrm Wizard to add metamagic to these spells?).
Although I wouldn't have allowed metamagic to these spells anyways, this quote from the spell would fortify my belief as such:
"Each of the chosen spells has its normal effect..."
3) How are you applying Fiendish Legion to the summon elemental reserve feat? Elementals are usually Neutral.
4) Regarding the cheese - I don't think Summon Monster I + Hieghten Spell +8 = Summon monster IX. All 9 Summon Monster spells are different spells. Of this I'm pretty certain.
5) Yes - the elhonna's brooch and Natures children are completely legal - no question about it. You must worship Nature/Elhonna. I just personally find it a bit cheesy - however - this is definitely worthy of mention in the guide (I'll be adding suggested Magic Items on Monday or Tuesday).
If you can work out the first 2 kinks - I'll post the build in the suggested builds. Heck - if Wyrm Wizard works out both those kinks - I'll buy Dragon Magic today and apply your suggestion to my current character!
I don't want any rules "abuses" here though. Big fan of The Ten Commandments of Practical Optimization- and try to follow them religiously. (my own bit of cheese)
Mind you, these are all under the effect extend spell, which means that they're actually normal duration while using the Ring of Mighty Summons.
Actually, Extend + Infernal Fury + Ring of mighty summons = double duration according to D&D's stacking multipliers rules. (at least the way I read them: x2 + x2 + 1/2 = x2 once)
Have you taken a look at the Fiendish Summoning Specialist feat from the Planar Handbook? I'd say it's a must-have for any Malconvoker, unless your GM is *very* stingy with the choices. Presuming we follow the guideline of CR=Spell Level for picking customized summons is probably safe. Recommendations for the best choices for this feat would be a great addition to this guide.
I don't have the book - but I know of the feat.
It allows you to put in a new evil creature into each level of Summon Monster, right?
Yes - that should definitely be added. I'll get the specific details and add it right away. Thanks!
Everyone can get the Spell Gifted Trait (SRD) which gets you +1 caster level to conjuration spells, and -1 to all others. Arguably worth it. So you have a wizard whose summons at lvl 1 last 2 rounds.
Cleric:
Summoner Domain (+2) + Spell Gifted (+1) + Divine Spell Power (usually -1 to +4) = base duration of 4 rounds, 3-8 if you spend a turning attempt. It might turn out to be valuable for surviving the lower levels.
Otherwise a splendid guide, thanks for writing this up!
There is no questioning that there are several advantages to playing a Cleric. The ability to get more casting levels for summons right off the bat is one of them.
Of course Conjurers starting at first level have the option of getting the Summoning Domain through the Arcane Disciple feat - it does however pigeonhole their religion and alignment. That would be a case by case judgement call I guess.
Yes - if your DM allows traits - the spell gifted one is one I would definitely suggest. I find my character fills those few spell slots that aren't Summon Monster spells with other conjurations mainly anyways.
1. Cha is already your primary stat, which will help reduce MAD and make planar binding all the easier.
2. Complete Champion introduces a 5th lvl substitution level that grants you the summoning domain spells, as well as the +2 CL bonus on summons.
3. Getting a domain, also opens up the ability to get the Domain Focus feat, which grants another +1 to CL bonus.
4. There is the Fiendish Sorcerer heritage feat in the PHB2. I am away from the book right now, but I believe it gives a +2 bonus to CL when summoning/calling Fiends, and a +2 Cha bonus when dealing with them. This is a very strong 1st lvl feat choice, as your summons will last 3 turns instead of 1 at 1st lvl.
5. Not specific to Sorcerers, but there is also a feat in the fiendish Codex called Demon Mastery, that also gives a +1 bonus to CL.
Great guide! Keep up the good work!
i've never played a summoner before, but i always wanted too. This guide has inspired me to take a crack at it soon.
Also, would it be possible to take the obtain familar feat at first level so you could give up 2 familars thereby getting both immediate magic and rapid summoning? probably not, but i had to ask.
Arcane Disciple doesn't give you the special benefit of the domain, just access to the spells in it.
And so it is. Didn't realize that - thank you for the input.
I just wanted to give a little love to the Sorcerer Malconvoker. Yes they have to wait till level 7 to get into the class. However, there are some advantages.
All valid stuff...I should probably give the sorcerer a little more love in the guide. CHA also helps those important bluff rolls.
My prejudice for the Conjurer again is because that is what I play. I know it's there - I just know the class better I guess.
i've never played a summoner before, but i always wanted too. This guide has inspired me to take a crack at it soon.
Also, would it be possible to take the obtain familar feat at first level so you could give up 2 familars thereby getting both immediate magic and rapid summoning? probably not, but i had to ask.
I'm not a veteran of Summoning - but I'm finding it very easy to figure out the strategies. I would recommend it to anyone wanting to try something new.
As for the 2 familiars strategy - I thought of that too - it would be great to get immediate magic. However - I doubt very highly there is a DM anywhere that would allow it - so I didn't even ask mine.
What book is Infernal Fury from?
It's not a feat - it's a class feature of the Malconvoker - gained at level 4. The Malconvoker is in Complete Scoundrel. It gives your evil summons +2 damage to all attacks and +2 HP/HD as long as the creature was summoned with deceptive summons (another class feature). It is completely stackable with Augment Summoning.
The only risk with deceptive summons is you must have an opposed bluff vs the summoned creatures sense motive for either ability to work. If you fail by more than 5, the creature attacks you. So MAXIMIZE that bluff!
Otherwise a splendid guide, thanks for writing this up!
Great guide! Keep up the good work!
This guide is just wonderful.
KIDS, Bonzai, and archerpwr - Thanks for the kind words!
(I love the praise!)I do have something to contribute, though: the Voice of the Dragon spell (SpC, sor/wiz 4) gives +10 enhancement to Bluff (and Diplomacy, and Intimidate) for 10 minutes per level, which has a variety of uses, and also comes in handy here. A couple of Extended castings last you the adventuring day, and you can expend it to create a Suggestion effect.
Serene Visage (sor/wiz 1) gives you +1/2 CL as an Insight bonus to Bluff, too, but that's only minutes/level.
As for the 2 familiars strategy - I thought of that too - it would be great to get immediate magic. However - I doubt very highly there is a DM anywhere that would allow it - so I didn't even ask mine.
Obtain Familiar requires arcane caster level 3rd.
Very interesting - makes my mouth water. I'm going to kick the tires a bit though - because I smell some kinks in the build that I need to check out.
I need to point out I don't have Dragon Magic - so if Wrym Wizard takes care of any of this stuff - let me know.
1) Arcane Fusion, Greater lets you pick any two sorcerer spells you know of 4th and 7th level. Since Summon Monster spells are wizard spells for you, they don't apply (unless Wrym Wizard changes that).Sorceror and Wizard spells come from the same list (minus a few exceptions, like Arcane Fusion, Greater that single out the Sorceror. So, with Wyrm Wizard, you can actually get any spell from anywhere (even Divine sources, so I chose to get AF,G and since Summon Monster appears on the Wizard list as well as the Sorceror list, this isn't a problem at all.
2) This is the big question. The way I read Arcane Fusion - you can't apply metamagic to the 4th and 7th level spells selected. If metamagic could be applied to them - it would require special mention. (or at least I believe so - if this is incorrect - point me to the rule I'm missing - or is there a special ability in Wyrm Wizard to add metamagic to these spells?).
Although I wouldn't have allowed metamagic to these spells anyways, this quote from the spell would fortify my belief as such:
"Each of the chosen spells has its normal effect..."I'm going mostly from what others have said before me, specifically that you can apply as much metamagic feats to the sub-spells of Arcane Fusion, Greater because the slots don't change... if they don't change, then they don't go up in cost so to speak. I remember reading this from Caelic.
3) How are you applying Fiendish Legion to the summon elemental reserve feat? Elementals are usually Neutral.Ahhh, that was my mistake. I forgot that they had to be evil. I just read the part of the feat that says you actually "summon" them, so I went with it. Unless there is a way to get evil elementals, then that would make my day.
4) Regarding the cheese - I don't think Summon Monster I + Hieghten Spell +8 = Summon monster IX. All 9 Summon Monster spells are different spells. Of this I'm pretty certain.Your probably right since the spells are actually a bit different, I'm guessing at the very least, you'll make the spells last longer.
5) Yes - the elhonna's brooch and Natures children are completely legal - no question about it. You must worship Nature/Elhonna. I just personally find it a bit cheesy - however - this is definitely worthy of mention in the guide (I'll be adding suggested Magic Items on Monday or Tuesday).
If you can work out the first 2 kinks - I'll post the build in the suggested builds. Heck - if Wyrm Wizard works out both those kinks - I'll buy Dragon Magic today and apply your suggestion to my current character!
I don't want any rules "abuses" here though. Big fan of The Ten Commandments of Practical Optimization- and try to follow them religiously. (my own bit of cheese)
Hope this helps!
p.s. for the record, I would play a Conjurer but where I play the Rapid Summoning variant isn't allowed, sadly
Oh on the subject of Summon Elementals, perhaps some combination via Rashemi Elemental summoning? I've never seen that feat myself but it is mentioned a lot - I dimly recall it makes something summoned evil (by adding template) or some other does. Truly cannot remember.
Oh I am pretty certain that at any level greater than 3, Conjurer does end up quite superior, its rapid summoning is very hard to match. I've been making a build for Cleric 6/Malconvoker 9/Thaumaturgist 5 and while it's all fun and nice, I have no way to squeeze in Summon Monster as faster than full round action and will never be able to properly use twin/repeat spell. On the other hand, it is very playable build from lvl 1 so I think that balances out.
Actually, Clerics are pretty good. Be the PHB2 Variant, so you can spontaneously cast domain spells, pick the summoning domain. From there you can get Divine meta magic, Rapid spell, etc..
I'd build it something like this (assuming human)
1. Domain Focus, Augment Summon
3. Rapid Spell
6. Spell Focus Conjuration
9. Divine Metamagic
12. Imbue Summon
15. Summon Elemental Reserve feat
16. Train out Augment Summons, as you now get it for free with Thaumaturgist. What you want to get is open.
18. ?
Right out of the box, you get a +3 cl boost to your summons, meaning a level 1 summons will last 4 turns instead of one, and you can spontaneously convert spells into summons. Lvl 3, you can make your summon monster 1 spells standard actions. At lvl 9, you can now spontaneously burn turn attempts to apply meta magic feats to spells, without increasing their level or casting time. I.E. you can cast rapid spell on any of your summon monster spells on the fly. Over all, I'd say that right there is pretty darn good.
Oh, and regards to my post on sorcerers. I have had a chance to look at my book, the feat is Infernal Sorcerer Heritage feat, and it's a +2 bonus to summoning evil outsiders, and you get a bonus to fire and poison saves equal to the heritage feats you have (+1/+1 with just this one). Maybe it was Demon Mastery that gave you the +2 Cha bonus.... I'll have to check it out.
Nice guide--makes me want to try the class, even.
I do have something to contribute....
That's awsome! Thanks for the contribution. I'll add the suggested spells to the guide within the next couple days.
Thanks also for the Compliment!
Hope this helps!
Ed-Zero, thanks for responding. I'll add the build to the guide - but I'll probably add a warning too to check with your DM regarding Arcane Fusion. I wouldn't allow metamagic added for free myself - so I'm sure other DM's wouldn't either. Best to check first!
Oh I am pretty certain that at any level greater than 3, Conjurer does end up quite superior
As bonzai mentions - Rapid Spell + Divine Metamagic could help for at least some castings/day. I'm thinking that Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration) would be good as well since it would give you 3 more.
Still the uses are limited - but with Divine Metamagic/Metamagic School focus - you can get a fair number of Rapid Spells.
Obtain Familiar requires arcane caster level 3rd.
hmmmmm
well what if we took the Immediate Magic variant at level 1 (because it requires level 1) then we would not gain a familiar, presumably the one we would have gotten for being a wizard. Then as our 6th lvl feat we take obtain familiar which lets us gain a familiar in the same manner as a sorc/wizard. Then we instantly give the familiar up so we can get Rapid Summoning. Now it doesn't say in the description of rapid summoning that the variant NEEDS to be taken at level one, so i dont see a reason why this wouldn't work as long as you take Immediate Magic first, then Obtain Familiar and Rapid Summoning next.
Does anyone see a major flaw in this? Now, as its been said, i'm sure a reasonable DM wouldn't allow this, but i'm curious to see if this is supported by the RAW
Does anyone see a major flaw in this? Now, as its been said, i'm sure a reasonable DM wouldn't allow this, but i'm curious to see if this is supported by the RAW
I'm pretty sure it's not supported by RAW.
UA refers to the Variant Wizard Specialists in this way:
"Each variant specialist class gives up one of the standard specialists class abilities in exchange for a new ability..."
The advantages given by feats are not considered class abilities - even if they offer a similar advantage.
Either way - if your DM is not likely to allow it either way - whether it's supported by RAW or not becomes kind of immaterial.
Great guide btw
Thank you Psoking!
Either way - if your DM is not likely to allow it either way - whether it's supported by RAW or not becomes kind of immaterial.
well i said a resonable DM...mine most certainitly is not ;)
however the part you quoted is more than enough to statisfy my curiosity on the matter.
She is rogue 2 (i beleivemaybe 4 for uncanny dge but dont think so) for evasion
cleric5, Malconvoker 5 ,fiendbinder (ToM) 5 (if i remember correctly , i am at work and dont carry the character sheet with me lol)
she has the feat augment summon, spell focus conjuring , uhmm and others lol like true speach training and such things inlcuding demon mastery and drain demonic essence . she isnt evil , she is Chaotic neutral cleric of the dragons above, her domains are Pride and Time
she uses evil against itself. she dresses generally like a catholic school girl lol and is fairly innocent despite her parentage, even if the party doesnt beleive her lol
How about combining the Malconvoker with Nar Demonbinder? The Demonbinder gives good bonuses to binding that fit with the Malconker, I'm just not sure about the limited spell list and lack of ninth level spells.
I agree that the Nar Demonbinder is a perfect flavor match for the Malconvoker. Since the bonuses are unnamed - you are talking about a total +9 to CHA checks with Planar Binding as well.
However - the total gimping of spell progression is a huge price to pay. You aren't just giving up 9th level spells - you are also giving up spells known and castings/day.
Personally - I think the Nar Demonbinder is the PrC for casters not smart enough to take Malconvoker - however - you are right - it deserves special mention - I'll add it tomorrow.
I agree that the Nar Demonbinder is a perfect flavor match for the Malconvoker. Since the bonuses are unnamed - you are talking about a total +9 to CHA checks with Planar Binding as well.
However - the total gimping of spell progression is a huge price to pay. You aren't just giving up 9th level spells - you are also giving up spells known and castings/day.
Personally - I think the Nar Demonbinder is the PrC for casters not smart enough to take Malconvoker - however - you are right - it deserves special mention - I'll add it tomorrow.
Also, Nar Demonbinder spells are as sorcerer spells, just a side note.
Charisma is my main stats, more turn undead, more bluff, i don't need wisdom, cause summon don't have DC,so i leave it in 16
Human Cleric of Wee Jas 5 / Malconvoker 9 / Paragnostic Apostle 1 /Thaumaturgist 5 ... after that i don't know what could go....
Domains: Trickery (allow to use bluff) Summoning (+1 caster lvl using summoning spells)
Feats:
1. Spell Focus Conjuration
1. Augment Summoning
3. Domain Spontaneity, Summoning
6. Imbued Summoning
9. Rapid Summoning*
12. Demon Mastery*
15. Don't know+
18. Don't know+
*Which of these feats could go first???
+I was thinking about Fiendish Summoning Specialist, in the planar Handbook, but i'm not sure, and i was thinking too about cloudy Conjuration... could someone help me with that?
and help me to find another prestige class.....
T_T!
I have a malconvoker build, but i don't know if it's ok...
Charisma is my main stats, more turn undead, more bluff, i don't need wisdom, cause summon don't have DC,so i leave it in 16
Human Cleric of Wee Jas 5 / Malconvoker 9 / Paragnostic Apostle 1 /Thaumaturgist 5 ... after that i don't know what could go....
Domains: Trickery (allow to use bluff) Summoning (+1 caster lvl using summoning spells)
Feats:
1. Spell Focus Conjuration
1. Augment Summoning
3. Domain Spontaneity, Summoning
6. Imbued Summoning
9. Rapid Summoning*
12. Demon Mastery*
15. Don't know+
18. Don't know+
*Which of these feats could go first???
+I was thinking about Fiendish Summoning Specialist, in the planar Handbook, but i'm not sure, and i was thinking too about cloudy Conjuration... could someone help me with that?
and help me to find another prestige class.....
T_T!
Why do you need another prestige class? That's a 20 level build.
Charisma is my main stats, more turn undead, more bluff, i don't need wisdom, cause summon don't have DC,so i leave it in 16
Makes sense - WIS and CON both need to be respectable, but not outrageously high, if that gives you room with your attribute system to focus on CHA, then absolutely.
Human Cleric of Wee Jas 5 / Malconvoker 9 / Paragnostic Apostle 1 /Thaumaturgist 5 ... after that i don't know what could go....
I'm not the person to ask about epic progression. Your first 20 levels look good.
Domains: Trickery (allow to use bluff) Summoning (+1 caster lvl using summoning spells)
Perfect.
Feats:
1. Spell Focus Conjuration
1. Augment Summoning
3. Domain Spontaneity, Summoning
6. Imbued Summoning
9. Rapid Summoning*
12. Demon Mastery*
15. Don't know+
18. Don't know+
*Which of these feats could go first???
Rapid summoning should be taken first for sure. I would find room for either Metamagic School Focus (conjuration) or Divine Metamagic (or both) to make it free to apply to SM spells.
Demon Summoning should be fine as a level 15 or 18 feat. The super-high CHA planar bindings won't be until Planar Binding, Greater anyways. The +1 caster level for summoning demons really isn't that potent.
+I was thinking about Fiendish Summoning Specialist, in the planar Handbook, but i'm not sure, and i was thinking too about cloudy Conjuration... could someone help me with that?
and help me to find another prestige class.....
Cloudy conjuration can work well with summoning. Consider at level 6 - summon a Dire Bat beside a foe. Use cloudy conjuration to obscure the foes square. Now since the foe is blind - the Dire Bat can now initiate a grapple (+12) without provoking an attack of opportunity - and forcing the opponent to remain in the square.
The Bat of course might be sickened as well, but won't be blind. Next turn - you can either replace the cloud with an obscuring spell - or cast different conjurations (as long as they are within 5') to keep the cloud in that square while your Bat makes mincemeat out of the opponent.
Am i wrong in thinking that Summon Undead works for the Malconvoker? It is an evil conjuration spell, that summons evil creatures. I have found that summon undead are amazing meat walls.
Unfortunately, the Malconvoker abilities work with Summon Monster spells, so Summon Undead spells would not apply.
However, the extra 4 HP/HD you get through Augment Summoning/Infernal Legion makes the Summon Monster creatures amazing meat walls too.
I have a malconvoker build, but i don't know if it's ok...
Charisma is my main stats, more turn undead, more bluff, i don't need wisdom, cause summon don't have DC,so i leave it in 16
Human Cleric of Wee Jas 5 / Malconvoker 9 / Paragnostic Apostle 1 /Thaumaturgist 5 ... after that i don't know what could go....
Domains: Trickery (allow to use bluff) Summoning (+1 caster lvl using summoning spells)
Feats:
1. Spell Focus Conjuration
1. Augment Summoning
3. Domain Spontaneity, Summoning
6. Imbued Summoning
9. Rapid Summoning*
12. Demon Mastery*
15. Don't know+
18. Don't know+
*Which of these feats could go first???
+I was thinking about Fiendish Summoning Specialist, in the planar Handbook, but i'm not sure, and i was thinking too about cloudy Conjuration... could someone help me with that?
and help me to find another prestige class.....
T_T!
One problem. Wee Jas doesn't offer the summoning domain.
One problem. Wee Jas doesn't offer the summoning domain.
Summoning Domain, don't have god, XD! i used wee jas, cause she's a goddess of magic... well.. that's not the problem...:P :P :P
Cloudy conjuration can work well with summoning. Consider at level 6 - summon a Dire Bat beside a foe. Use cloudy conjuration to obscure the foes square. Now since the foe is blind - the Dire Bat can now initiate a grapple (+12) without provoking an attack of opportunity - and forcing the opponent to remain in the square.
The Bat of course might be sickened as well, but won't be blind. Next turn - you can either replace the cloud with an obscuring spell - or cast different conjurations (as long as they are within 5') to keep the cloud in that square while your Bat makes mincemeat out of the opponent.
i don't understand....if cloudy conjuration blinds my opponent?... cause it works as fog cloud spell... and in the spell description says, that it will give concealment... and i have another question... how work the sickening effect?.. where i can find that.. cause my DM says i can't use it until i know how works exactly the feat 
PLZ!!! HELP!!!:surrender :surrender
and if someone know how i can use exactly the malconvoker in a battle.... plz tell me... it's my first time as malconvoker in a party of 6th lvl... and we have a wizard, a monk, and a ninja ¬¬.... well thx anyways
The Bat of course might be sickened as well
from the Cloudy Conjuration description: "Any creature you call or summon with the spell is immune to the sickening effect of the cloud."
Really makes me miss not taking it at 6th like I was planning, but the party really needed a cleric (and thus Leadership got the nod).
how work the sickening effect?.. where i can find that..
The PHB Glossary, under Sickened: "–2 penalty on all attack rolls, weapon damage rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks."
This is my mistake - you have reason to be confused. The opponent would gain an AoO in this case, as the bat would only have partial concealment by the spell description when engaging in the grapple. Sorry. Still a decent plan - but the bat will have to take the attack of opportunity.
and i have another question... how work the sickening effect?.. where i can find that.. cause my DM says i can't use it until i know how works exactly the feat
Glossary in the back of the PHB.
PLZ!!! HELP!!!:surrender :surrender
and if someone know how i can use exactly the malconvoker in a battle.... plz tell me... it's my first time as malconvoker in a party of 6th lvl... and we have a wizard, a monk, and a ninja ¬¬.... well thx anyways
The general answer to that is Summon Monster spell. At 6th level you have Summon Monster I, II, and III available - keep lots of them ready to cast. (maybe even everything except your domain slots)
Hopefully you have a maxed out bluff score. At 6th level you should have deceptive summons. Use it - it will provide you with double duration summons.
Read the guide on the first page - I've provided tactics and tips. Read entries for all Summon Monster spells available to you by level (I, II and III). At 6th level I would be summoning lots of Fiendish Apes. Use your lower level spells for Wolves, and Fiendish Monstrous Spiders.
Assuming you are currently Cleric 5/Malconvoker 1, this should be a good level for you. You have access to Summon Monster III (one of the best levels for summon monster), and with Deceptive Summons you have good duration on your castings.
Use the summoned monsters to provide flanking for your Ninja and Monk - and if they get in trouble - have your ape grapple their opponent - it will turn the offense against your summoned creature (which is good for everyone).
Wolves will also make good flankers for both characters if you run out of SMIII. The constant trip attempts will be problematic for your foes, and your allies will appriciate the flank.
After that - If you have more specific questions - I would be happy to provide any advice I can.
Summoning Domain, don't have god, XD! i used wee jas, cause she's a goddess of magic... well.. that's not the problem...:P :P :P
That's up to the DM. A lot of DM's won't let you add domains to existing deities. I'm sure there is a god that offers the summoning domain since it's printed, I just don't feel like looking through all my books trying to find it. And you don't even need to worship a god, so why bother?
I'm sure there is a god that offers the summoning domain since it's printed
Trithereon (Complete Divine, pg121)
Trithereon (Complete Divine, pg121)
Thank you. I remembered somebody saying it in some thread, and actually did rummage around for it. I never actually thought to look there though. :P
Magic Items for Malconvokers added.
If you think I missed something - please post it!
Otherwise, the guide is essentially complete.
Looks good. I just wish there were more PrCs for a summoner. Especially since I don't like Thaumaturgist much,
Firstly - Thank you :D
Secondly - you're right - not too many PrC's for summoners (and a number of them are really bad: ie Nar Demonbinder, Alienist)
However - If you go Malconvoker, you can fill those other levels with Master Specialist very easily. Archmage is ok for converting SM to SLA's.
The Thaumaturgist is OK - not stellar. Requires some manouvering to enter with a Wizard as well.
Paragnostic Apostle is a good all-round PrC. I intend to take a few levels with my character - not just for Call of the Worlds, but also for Mind over matter and Spatial Awareness (for use with my other conjuration spells - Greater Mage Armor + Mind over matter is Armor bonus +8 for example - who needs full plate?)
I've been thinking Fatespinner could have some great synergy with Malconvoker. Fail a bluff roll? Miss an opposed CHA check with a Planar Binding spell? Just apply some spin. Furthermore - you can spin the fate of your own summoned creatures as a kind of buff.
A 4th level Fatespinner can reroll those annoying 1d3 rolls for summoning monsters off an earlier level Summon Monster spell. Wow - more I think about it - the more I like it. I might add Fatespinner to the list of suggested PrC's. I would break after 4 levels though.
From Complete Scoundrel, there's Magical Trickster and Uncanny Trickster. They both lose a caster level, though MT gives another bonus metamagic feat. UT can advance Malconvoker and gives you a lot of skill points.
How about the Wu-jen as a base class? The bonus metamagic feat is always nice, and you can pick up the 9th level after Malconvoker to apply Spell Secret to a high level summons.
Hmmm...not too well aquainted with the class - let me give it a read.
Yes - I think it would make a decent base class. Spell secret would be ok as well - perhaps extend for the low level spells, silent later on?
The obvious 2 disadvantages of going Wu jen would be:
1) No Rapid Spell variant I know of for them - the Summon spells would all be full-round actions
2) You have less castings then a specialist wizard, several less castings then a focused specialist. You may find you run out of summon spells quickly.
The one big advantage to the Wu Jen would have to be the Watchful Spirit. Rerolling initiative checks is huge.
However, a benevolent DM might be convinced to allow Rapid Spell to be a spell secret - it is after all a 1 level metamagic enhacement. If that was allowed - this would be a decent entry class. Thanks for the suggestion, I'll add it to the Guide.
From Complete Scoundrel, there's Magical Trickster and Uncanny Trickster. They both lose a caster level, though MT gives another bonus metamagic feat. UT can advance Malconvoker and gives you a lot of skill points.
My concern with both of these classes is giving up the 2nd spellcaster level.
Once you leave Malconvoker, you have the luxury of taking other spellcasting classes that might not focus so much on Summoning - but if they have full spellcasting progression - you'll do OK.
However, with each of these options you give up a spellcasting level. I would not take any PrC that loses another spellcasting level unless there were some serious summoning benifits.
The only summoning benifit I could imagine here is one free quickened summon monster spell per day from the Magical Trickster. This is something a Master Specialist 10 will be able to do 3 times/day without losing any spellcaster levels.
The tricks in Complete scoundrel just don't do much for summoners. Your Bluff score (and disguise if you take it) qualify you for a number of tricks - but not many that you are likely to use very often.
I look at the list and I think Timely Misdirection, false Theurgy, and Collector of Stories would be pretty decent - and able to qualify for - but hardly groundshaking.
The Ultimate Trickster is very skill oriented. I think it would do well with something like a Beguiler - or perhaps a wizard looking to enter one of the Rogue/Wizard hybrid PrC's.
Don't get me wrong - I think that these PrC's wouldn't completely gimp a Malconvoker - it could work, and you could work a skills angle that otherwise you wouldn't have. There might be some interesting character options available here.
However, from a purely optimization point of view - your summoning will be weaker for taking either of these PrC's IMO.
Although somewhat of a poor choice because of the loss of a caster level, notice that the UA variants don't specify that the spells cast have to be cast as a conjurer--so, technically, a sorcerer could take a wizard dip to grab rapid summoning and enhanced summoning.
Thanks for the suggestion. A Conjurer 1/Cleric and a Conjurer 1/Sorceror build have been added to the suggested builds section.
Not sure which PrC's to add after Malconvoker - Contemplative seemed OK.
Just wanted to say that your guide really made me take a second look at a grossly underrated PrC.
I'm currently AFB, but would Metamagic School Focus and the rapid summoning metamagic feat combine to basically duplicate the effects of the rapid summoning UA variant for those DMs who aren't as receptive to UA? (Some stuff in there is pretty broke, and so some DMs I know disallow it)
Great guide!
prototype00
i was thinking... what about item familiar???? i was thinking in that... because the item familiar improves skills..... and i can use it to improve bluff and other useful skills >_>!
Never thought about that - but yes - that would be good. You could essentially double your Bluff score. (How about a Ring of Mighty Summoning Item Familiar?).
You wouldn't have much in the way of other skills though. Excellent suggestion though - I will add it to the guide.
Hi,
Just wanted to say that your guide really made me take a second look at a grossly underrated PrC.
Glad to hear it. I agree - it is highly underrated currently. That was my motivation for the guide - glad to hear it's working!I'm currently AFB, but would Metamagic School Focus and the rapid summoning metamagic feat combine to basically duplicate the effects of the rapid summoning UA variant for those DMs who aren't as receptive to UA? (Some stuff in there is pretty broke, and so some DMs I know disallow it)
For 3 castings/day it would (and very worthwhile). For the rest of the day I would suggest just taking the full round action to cast. Lowering the spell level is just never worth it with Summon Monster.
With this route I would consider the class choice a more even one. I personally would still go the conjurer route - but mainly because I am a sucker for the conjuration school.
Great guide!
prototype00
Thank you!For 3 castings/day it would (and very worthwhile). For the rest of the day I would suggest just taking the full round action to cast. Lowering the spell level is just never worth it with Summon Monster.
Hrrm, about that, would it also be possible to arcane thesis your fav. summon monster spells, like say SM VII and SM VIII, so that you could apply rapid metamagic to them for free?
prototype00
Hrrm, about that, would it also be possible to arcane thesis your fav. summon monster spells, like say SM VII and SM VIII, so that you could apply rapid metamagic to them for free?
prototype00
Or you could do it the way I posted up on the first page.. which reminds Treant, my build isn't up in the build section yet
Or you could do it the way I posted up on the first page.. which reminds Treant, my build isn't up in the build section yet
Ack!!!! I'm sorry Ed-Zero:embarrass :embarrass :embarrass - I have added it now.
Hrrm, about that, would it also be possible to arcane thesis your fav. summon monster spells, like say SM VII and SM VIII, so that you could apply rapid metamagic to them for free?
Thanks for that Prototype00 - I've added that to the guide as well.
i was thinking... it's terrible for a cleric malconvoker... you can't cast your summons as standard action... but a friend told me that there's a feat in Eberron or Forgotten Realms... called quicken summoning or conjuration.. or something similar.... he said that it leaves you cast summons as standard action... is that right?... and what's the real name of the feat :S... i was searching in the books of eberron i have (campaign setting, magic of eberron and player's guide to eberron) and i can't search in forgotten realms... cause i don't have books of that campaign setting... well in the books i have i can't found that feat... can someone help me to search?
I'm sorry, the only feat I've ever seen for making summoning a standard action is the Rapid Summoning feat. It is +1 level metamagic.
I double checked the Summoning Handbook which also makes no mention of any such feat.
I've done some pretty comprehensive searches through HEREfor summoning-related feats, so I'm quite sure it isn't a FR feat. Perhaps Eberron?
If you find something, let us know, but I'm thinking your friend may have been mistaken...
That way, they will be able to scout exclusively for their master (you) and report to you the various results of their excursions, all for free, of course.
prototype00
P.s. I was wondering if it would be nice to have a section whereby you talk about tactics for helping your summoned helpers in combat that don't involve summoning more help? Perhaps a rundown of useful spells? Or other points of interest? Just a thought.
PPS. If you are a small race, and use the summon elemental reserve feat to summon an air elemental, would they be strong enough to carry you and fly? Since their maneuverability is perfect and they can fly really fast, would it not be a pretty good mobility option, all for free, really?
Hrrm as a small aside, on the subject of summoning specific creatures. If you can get it past the DM, it would be best to be able to summon the same 4 elementals with the summon elemental reserve feat. (Heck, they can even have the DMG elemental stats, after all, you won't be using them in combat.)
That way, they will be able to scout exclusively for their master (you) and report to you the various results of their excursions, all for free, of course.
There is some advantage and disadvantage to this. If your earth elemental glides through the wall and is killed by the BBEG on the other side, it will not be available for summoning again for 24 hrs.
So, the summoning specific creatures variant in the DMG is certainly worth considering - but not a slam-dunk by any means.
I did discuss these variants a bit HERE - if you have some further input - post it and I can edit the post.
P.s. I was wondering if it would be nice to have a section whereby you talk about tactics for helping your summoned helpers in combat that don't involve summoning more help? Perhaps a rundown of useful spells? Or other points of interest? Just a thought.
That's a good idea - I'll add something this week sometime.
PPS. If you are a small race, and use the summon elemental reserve feat to summon an air elemental, would they be strong enough to carry you and fly? Since their maneuverability is perfect and they can fly really fast, would it not be a pretty good mobility option, all for free, really?
When it's small it wouldn't be able to carry you for sure. However - once it's medium this might be possible. I'm not sure I would allow an air elemental to be ridden myself (I don't exactly picture an air elemental as solid enough to sit on), but this would be an option to discuss with your DM.
Edit: PS - Prototype00 - thanks for your continuing input to the guide - keep it coming!
If you can get it past the DM, it would be best to be able to summon the same 4 elementals with the summon elemental reserve feat.
That way, they will be able to scout exclusively for their master (you) and report to you the various results of their excursions, all for free, of course.
As long as the scouting doesn't go past 30 feet ;)
If at the end of your turn you are more than 30 feet from the elemental, it disappears.
Stub
Human
Sorc1/UA Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Malkonvoker 5/MS 3-7
Using a Flaw to get Able Learner for your Bluff skill to stay maxed.
This gets Bluff as a class skill and the ability to keep it maxed throughout and all the other goodies of a Master Specialist Malkonvoker build.
Sorc1/UA Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Malkonvoker 5/MS 3-7
Using a Flaw to get Able Learner for your Bluff skill to stay maxed.
This gets Bluff as a class skill and the ability to keep it maxed throughout and all the other goodies of a Master Specialist Malkonvoker build.
Sorc1/UA Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Malkonvoker 5/MS 3-7
Using a Flaw to get Able Learner for your Bluff skill to stay maxed.
This gets Bluff as a class skill and the ability to keep it maxed throughout and all the other goodies of a Master Specialist Malkonvoker build.[/sblock]
Nothing too spectacular going on other than what's already been discussed, but was wondering since I'll be starting a lvl16 character in the near future and this thread caught my eye and got me wondering about summoning. It's not much different than one of the builds from the first page (added a level of Sorc at the front), but I wanted to get Bluff as a class skill as soon as possible and be able to keep it maxed.
You worry too much about Bluff here. Taking Bluff as a cross-class skill is good enough to qualify for Malconvoker - then you can max it out in one level (If your INT is high), 2 levels at worst. Remember you don't need the bluff until AFTER you've become a Malconvoker.
Following your theme - you could just go Conjurer 3/MS 2/Malconvoker 5/MS X. The build is solid - and your Bluff will be maxed (more than maxed since you will also get Skill Focus - bluff for free).
ps., actually making me want to consider playing a caster for once rather than a multi-trick melee character.
Thanks Corzat! As always, I'm a sucker for praise!!!
Sadly, I don't have CS yet (soon, soon), so I'd like to ask a question about the Maconvoker: Can you think of any non-flavor reason why a Malconvoker shouldn't be evil? From what I can tell, it seems that the primary reason Mal's can't be evil because they are characters that use evil against evil, right? It really irritates me that, RAW, you can't have a Malconvoker demon-summoner dedicated to Demagorgon that makes full use of BoVD.
Perhaps I should wait for CS, but the following build strikes me as a-bit-more-than-decent to almost-pretty-good.
Human Cleric 6/Malconvoker 9/Thaumaturgist 5
Alignment
Chaotic Neutral
Domains
Chaos, Demonic (Grazz't, Demogorgan, etc. have Demonic Domain)
Class Features
Domain Spontaneity (DMG II) Optional
Vrock as cohort using Thaumaturgist Planar Cohort ability.
Feats
(Bonus) SF [Conjuration]
(1) Augment Summons
(3) Metamagic Feat of Choice (Sudden Extend?)
(6) Twin Spell
(Retrain) Divine Metamgaic [Twin]
(9) Repeat Spell
(12) Divine Metamgaic [Repeat]
(15) Extra Turning
(18) Extra Turning
Additional Magic Items
Nightstick (Libris Mortis +4 turn attempts per day), Metamagic Rod of Quicken
Now, normally Divine caster get Planar Ally in place of Planar Binding. This means that [b]normally[b] a cleric Malconvoker cannot get the +2 HD from Planar Ally (so, e.g. he could not summon a Balor with Planar Ally, Greater). The Demonic domain, however, includes all three planar binding spells. So this Malconvoker build can bind a Balor.
Aside from what has already been mentioned, this character could also do something similar to what Ed-Zero does with AF, G. With the nightstick and extra-turning, you would have 3+4+4+4 = 15 turn attempts per day. With a 20 Cha, you have 20. This is enough to divine metamgaic repeat and twin four times in any combination.
(Round 1) Repeat Twin MS IX
Quickened Repeat Twin MS IX
[8 monsters of your choice]
Balor summons another Balor, second Balor does his thing.
Vrock tries to summon another Vrock (35% chance).
(Round 2) Another MS (VIII maybe) and a Quickened MS.
[8 more monsters from repeat, 4 from this round]
Balors do their thing.
Vrock does his thing (or Vrocks, depending).
(Round 3) Another MS VIII and a quickened MS VIII.
[4 more monsters]
Balors and Vrock(s) do their thing.
By round three, you have 8 + 8 + 2 + 2 + 8 + 8 + 2 + 2 = 40 monsters, all from MS IX and MS VIII. Plus two Balors and one or two Vrocks. Maybe as good as Ed's build? (fewer monsters, but higher lvl beasties)
Admittedly, you use three full round actions, but ... Perhaps a Cleric can make a good Malconvoker? What do you think?
Thanks. :D
More praise for treant: your guide rocks.
OK guys - my head is getting big. You'll need to stop now. (I'm just showing false modesty - bring on the PRAISE)
Sadly, I don't have CS yet (soon, soon), so I'd like to ask a question about the Maconvoker: Can you think of any non-flavor reason why a Malconvoker shouldn't be evil?
Nope - I think it's all about flavor.
From what I can tell, it seems that the primary reason Mal's can't be evil because they are characters that use evil against evil, right? It really irritates me that, RAW, you can't have a Malconvoker demon-summoner dedicated to Demagorgon that makes full use of BoVD.
Present an alternate flavor PrC with equal abilities to your DM. If they allow evil characters (and lets face it - you are talking EVIL
) then why not allow it?It wouldn't be a Malconvoker though. It would only use the Malconvoker abilities. Using evil to fight evil is what the Malconvoker is about. Take that away and it's just mechanics (pretty good mechanics though)
Perhaps I should wait for CS, but the following build strikes me as a-bit-more-than-decent to almost-pretty-good.
Human Cleric 6/Malconvoker 9/Thaumaturgist 5
If you want to go Cleric Summoning - Malconvoker/Thaumaturgist is a great way to go.
Balor Cohort from Thaumaturgist
I have no idea how you got a Balor with Thaumaturgist's Planar Cohort ability. Even if you could summon a Balor with Planar Ally, you couldn't have it as a cohort until level 22.
Nah....just Bind the Balor!!!! :evillaugh
Nightstick (Libris Mortis +4 turn attempts per day)
You will need to find a DM that still allows the nightstick. Good luck!
Aside from what has already been mentioned, this characater could do something similar to what Ed-Zero does with AF, G. With the nightstick and extra-turning, you would have 3+4+4+4 = 15 turn attempts per day. With a 20 Cha, you have 20. This is enough to divine metamgaic repeat and twin four times in any combination.
Nevertheless - that is impressive.
By round three, you have 8 + 8 + 2 + 2 + 8 + 8 + 2 + 2 = 40 monsters, all from MS IX and MS VIII. Plus two Balors. Maybe as good as Ed's build? (fewer monsters, but higher lvl beasties)
I would say so, and certainly legal by RAW (other than the Balors) as far as I can see. (anybody else?)
I'll give it a day to stand up to scruteny from the Mob - if it holds up I'll put it in the guide. Either way I always appriciate feedback and brainstorming.
Thanks for the input Sigfried!
Admittedly, you use three full round actions, but ... Perhaps a Cleric can make a good Malconvoker? What do you think?
I think even without Nightsticks and Balors this theme could still work on a reduced level. I'll crunch some math tomorrow. My initial gut feeling is that this is a very good build.
I get the distinct feeling that the Balor goes beyond the capabilities of Planar Cohort at 20th level
It does. He could go up to CR 18 and 18 HD max.
Excellent! Excellent, guide, Treant. This is one of the best organized and fun reading guides I have come across so far. MegaKudos to you and to all of the CO folks who have made building and playing summoners such a nifty option.
:bounce: That was a 5 star compliment. Thanks! You really are dman.
If it didn't seem so icky to have demons as your buddies I would play a malconvoker in a second.
Thanks. :D
I had to show the player who plays the Cleric of Lathander in our party the PrC description before he would believe it wasn't a class for evil characters.
Summoning evil to fight evil - some would call it dangerous, some would call it too high a price - me? I call it killing 2 birds with one stone. ;)
If he can do it with Planar Ally, then I think the Balor is legal. Thaumaturgist can get any creature summonable with Planar Ally as a cohort. Greater Planar Ally = 18hd, +2 from Malconvoker = 20 Hd = Balor.
Sorry, I know I should have the stats before I start posting this stuff.
Since I don't have CS, I'm not entirely certain, but can't the Malconvoker summon creatures with two more HD than usual with Calling spells? Or is it just Planar Binding?
If he can do it with Planar Ally, then I think the Balor is legal. Thaumaturgist can get any creature summonable with Planar Ally as a cohort. Greater Planar Ally = 18hd, +2 from Malconvoker = 20 Hd = Balor.
Sorry, I know I should have the stats before I start posting this stuff.
Ahhh...that's where the Balor came from.
No, I'm afraid the +2 applies to Planar Binding only.
(You still have to get around the CR = your character level-2 as well.)
I'm telling you - just BIND that Balor!!! When your 20 days are up - turn around and bind him again. Poor, poor Balor....
No, I'm afraid the +2 applies to Planar Binding only.
(You still have to get around the CR = your character level-2 as well.)
I'm telling you - just BIND that Balor!!! When your 20 days are up - turn around and bind him again. Poor, poor Balor....
Bah, dumb mistake on my part sorry. Looking a little closer, there are in fact two things wrong with my plan to get a Balor cohort: First, cleric can't cast Planar Binding (so Malconvoker ability doesn't work), second the thaumaturgist cohort ability works off the outsider's ECL (good luck getting a Balor).
But the Demonic domain gives a cleric the Planar Binding spells! So I altered the build above to include that domain, and now that character can bind a Balor.
One more thing: I infer from what's been said that most DM's have outlawed the nightstick?
One more thing: I infer from what's been said that most DM's have outlawed the nightstick?
More like "Most DMs will outlaw the nightstick if you start using it for DMM abuse". Most DMs would probably not prohibit the nightstick to a PC who actually uses it to turn more undead.
Bah, dumb mistake on my part sorry. Looking a little closer, there are in fact two things wrong with my plan to get a Balor cohort: First, cleric can't cast Planar Binding (so Malconvoker ability doesn't work), second the thaumaturgist cohort ability works off the outsider's ECL (good luck getting a Balor).
Planar Cohort is the premeir ability of the Thaumaturgist - but not THAT premeir...
But the Demonic domain gives a cleric the Planar Binding spells! So I altered the build above to include that domain, and now that character can bind a Balor.
Actually - the Malconvoker PrC will give your Cleric Planar Binding spells all 3 at the same levels a Wizard gets them (all granted at level 2) - so no worries.
One more thing: I infer from what's been said that most DM's have outlawed the nightstick?
The DMM + Nightstick trick is one of those broken things that came up on the boards as soon as both were available. Once DM's saw the various "Cleric with persistant everything by level 7" builds that spelled the end of the nightstick before it ever got a chance to "actually" be abused in any campaign I've ever been in.
Thanks
Question about Summoning. When you summon using summon monster do you have to roll HP for the creature or does it get max or an average? Is there a rule for this, and where is it located.
Thanks
You can roll HP if you really want to slow down already complicated D&D encounters ! ;)
You get average hp if do not want to roll them, but these rolls are not subjects to empower or maximize (I know that you were thinking about that…
).Planar Cohort is the premeir ability of the Thaumaturgist - but not THAT premeir...
I'm not fond of the ability. Due to the wording that requires the planar cohort have an ECL of two levels lower than yours, your choices are much more limited compared to a plain planar ally spell which is restricted only by hd. I also think it was completely unnecessary for the planar cohort to override your leadership feat if you had it.
Question about Summoning. When you summon using summon monster do you have to roll HP for the creature or does it get max or an average? Is there a rule for this, and where is it located.
Thanks
By RAW - you use the average.
If you use the variant rules in the DMG (Pg 37) - you roll everything randomly (be prepared for the paperwork)
If you have a Ring of Mighty Summons - you get the Maximum.
Get the ring of mighty summons!!! (At least by level 10).I'm not fond of the ability. Due to the wording that requires the planar cohort have an ECL of two levels lower than yours, your choices are much more limited compared to a plain planar ally spell which is restricted only by hd. I also think it was completely unnecessary for the planar cohort to override your leadership feat if you had it.
So basically - Thaumaturgist looks better than it is, Malconvoker is better than it looks.
Still - with a summoning build, Thaumaturgist 5 is still OK - but no better than a variety of other options. For a Cleric it might be your best option (after Malconvoker) still.
By RAW - you use the average.
If you use the variant rules in the DMG (Pg 37) - you roll everything randomly (be prepared for the paperwork)
If you have a Ring of Mighty Summons - you get the Maximum.
Awesome, thanks
What book is this in?
It does have the drawback of 1/2 the duration of your summons - so good thing you have deceptive summons ;)
Wouldn't moment of prescience be a good spell to help with the charisma check on the planar binding spells? Also, the spell surge of fortune from CC would allow you to treat the charisma check as a natural 20.
Moment of prescience is brilliant vecnagash! Of course not really useful until Greater Planar Binding (8th level spell), but as of then - hello Balor my pet!:evillaugh
(Added to the Guide today)
Spell Surge of fortune would depend on how your DM runs the "propose the deal and make the roll" part of the spell. If you are given a chance to cast 1 round before the challenge - it would also be really good (Only for Cleric Malconvokers though)
Also, Finger of Agony(CM) can induce the sickened condition if the target saves(nausea if not) for three rounds and help lower its charisma check.
The amber amulet of vermin(MIC) is thematic and very powerful for its price(700gp) if you get the huge monstrous scorpion version. This doesn't exploit any special synergy, but it is still pretty sweet. Yes, your eyes do not deceive you Mr. evil cleric, that is a celestial monkey riding a leviathan scorpion! Who's laughing now?
Finally, an interesting creature to call with Planar Binding would be a hellwasp swarm with an element creature template (MoP, making it an elemental). You could then go around controlling a bunch of different zombies for free and adding to your retinue of benighted(some anyway) lackeys. Since hellwasp swarms are from Gehenna, a good case could be made to the DM that the fire elemental version exists and can be called.
Focused Specialist:
Must take as a Specialist Wizard at 1st Level
-Lose one spell slot of each level spell you can cast, but gain 2 spells per day of spells from your chosen school.
I gave up something like enchantment and then you can get more Spells/Day but at least 1, which I think is pretty huge.
More Summon Monsters???? Mayyyybeeeeee.
I've decided to add it to the Feats/Tactics section as well as the build section. I believe even without Nightsticks this build has merit.
Thanks for the help!
I think it is worth mentioning one of the alternative class feature options from Complete Mage:
Focused Specialist:
Must take as a Specialist Wizard at 1st Level
-Lose one spell slot of each level spell you can cast, but gain 2 spells per day of spells from your chosen school.
I gave up something like enchantment and then you can get more Spells/Day but at least 1, which I think is pretty huge.
More Summon Monsters???? Mayyyybeeeeee.
Wow - how did that not make my handbook? At first my response was going to be "It's already in there", but I just checked and it wasn't. My own malconvoker is a Focused Specialist and I would be nothing but.
Thanks for the headsup!
Yes to all - if you go the Conjurer base class route go Focused Specialist. Lose Necromancy, Illusion and Evocation if your DM allows Craft Contingency Spell feat. Otherwise consider at least losing Enchantment over illusion.
The Surge of Fortune spell could be cast up to 1 round/level before the bargaining commences(more with a metamagic rod and various caster level increases). It only requires an immediate action to discharge.:D
You are right - I read it wrong (my excuse is I was tired). I will add it to the Planar Binding section (I may not get a chance today - but within a few days)
Also, Finger of Agony(CM) can induce the sickened condition if the target saves(nausea if not) for three rounds and help lower its charisma check.
Very true. Now that won't stack with the other spells causing a similar effect (ray of sickness - which also produces sickness, and is also necromancy, provides no save and lasts rounds/level), but it does give one more option. Options are good. I'll add it to Planar Binding spell synergy section soon.
The amber amulet of vermin(MIC) is thematic and very powerful for its price(700gp) if you get the huge monstrous scorpion version. This doesn't exploit any special synergy, but it is still pretty sweet. Yes, your eyes do not deceive you Mr. evil cleric, that is a celestial monkey riding a leviathan scorpion! Who's laughing now?
I don't have the MIC
I would need exact stats to make a call on that.Finally, an interesting creature to call with Planar Binding would be a hellwasp swarm with an element creature template (MoP, making it an elemental). You could then go around controlling a bunch of different zombies for free and adding to your retinue of benighted(some anyway) lackeys. Since hellwasp swarms are from Gehenna, a good case could be made to the DM that the fire elemental version exists and can be called.
Templated creatures for Planar Binding opens up a whole slu of options - however, it is debatable if they are allowed. We know templates are no good for polypmorph - but for Planar Binding? I don't know if there is an SRD ruling on that, but either way, I'm not sure many DM's will allow it.
Of course, if they will - you are good to put powerful templates onto creatures (Half-Fiend Dragons anyone?) and Planar bind them rather than your normal outsider/elemental list. Your DM will nix that shortly enough.
Convincing your DM such a creature surely exists is perhaps some incentive. Certainly any of the Fiendish/Celestial creatures on your SM list exist - but again - you are looing for DM approval.
Finally - does the elemental template make an alignment of neutral? I don't recall. If so - you don't want to planar bind neutral creatures because you can't make a circle to trap them in. (Which is something I should put in the Planar Binding tips section - aha!)
Of course, if they will - you are good to put powerful templates onto creatures (Half-Fiend Dragons anyone?) and Planar bind them rather than your normal outsider/elemental list. Your DM will nix that shortly enough.
I would suspect that the major disincentive to doing this would be that (a) you have now established that there is a supply of half-fiendish dragons out there and (b) at least one of them has good reason to hate your guts.
Actually, this ties into a problem I've had with the "how to bind a succubus" section. Succubi pretty much exist to tempt good-aligned creatures into performing evil deeds. If you get in the habit of spending a week torturing a creature you've just met senseless so you can get a better deal out of it each time you cast Planar Binding - congratulations, whether she charges you for the work or not the succubus has successfully carried out her mission.
I would suspect that the major disincentive to doing this would be that (a) you have now established that there is a supply of half-fiendish dragons out there and (b) at least one of them has good reason to hate your guts.
Actually, this ties into a problem I've had with the "how to bind a succubus" section. Succubi pretty much exist to tempt good-aligned creatures into performing evil deeds. If you get in the habit of spending a week torturing a creature you've just met senseless so you can get a better deal out of it each time you cast Planar Binding - congratulations, whether she charges you for the work or not the succubus has successfully carried out her mission.
Whether torturing a physical manifestation of evil counts as an evil action is at least debatable.
Even characters with a vow of nonviolence (BoED) get an exemption for evil outsiders. They aren't really living creatures.
However - as you point out - it is debatable, torture is one of those touchy subjects. - check with your DM.
Whether torturing a physical manifestation of evil counts as an evil action is at least debatable.
Even characters with a vow of nonviolence (BoED) get an exemption for evil outsiders. They aren't really living creatures.
However - as you point out - it is debatable, torture is one of those touchy subjects. - check with your DM.
The big problem is that the torture is totally unnecessary. You're doing it so that you don't have to pay her for her work. Lying to demons to get a better deal out of them is A-OK, but inflicting large amounts of unnecessary torment on a sentient creature, even an inherently evil one, is one of the big no-nos according to pretty much every published alignment guideline. Killing evil outsiders is a good act, but torturing them to get a better deal out of them and then letting them go is a lot harder to defend.
On a more practical level, remember that calling spells specifically note that the creature is free to seek vengeance on you after the spell is done with. Repeatedly calling, torturing, and binding the same succubus into service is going to get you a very dedicated and experienced enemy with a lot of skill in acquiring allies. Doing it to a variety of succubi instead will get you somewhat less-dedicated enemies, but many more of them. A good DM will probably inflict consequences for this kind of activity.
I start playing her tonight (at level 3), so wish me luck.
By definition a creature would be alive.
There is no doubt that Demons have sentience. But are they alive - or just physical manifestations of the Planes of Evil? My daughter tortures her Barbies (it's hilarious), but it definitely isn't evil. Now if she moved on to puppies - well that's a whole different matter.
Also, I'm not sure that enacting a Geas that cannot be completed necessarily qualifies as torture. Torture would suggest causing physical or emotional pain in order to achieve an end. Geas seems more of a compulsion to me.
Finally, the Malconvoker is a class that isn't a Paladin by any stretch. Good characters are certainly allowed an occassional non-good action - as long as they are more good than evil overall. No absolutes apply here.
If in doubt - read the second line of this guide ;)
I won't suggest for one moment that the Geas suggestion was dark though...that was the point
If it's not for your Malconvoker - feel free to ignore it.Granted, a malconvoker is by his nature willing to compromise and accept questionable means to the right end, but making a habit out of doing something actually evil is pretty much what it means to become evil. Remember that while the malconvoker does not treat summoning evil creatures or working with them as an evil act, using them to do evil things is still as evil as ever.
Some DMs may accept that line of reasoning. However, different sourcebooks and different settings take different stances on the nature of demons, and most that I've seen qualify them as sentient creatures. They may be a tumor upon the universe, but the Good way to deal with it is to excise them as painlessly as possible.
Granted, a malconvoker is by his nature willing to compromise and accept questionable means to the right end, but making a habit out of doing something actually evil is pretty much what it means to become evil. Remember that while the malconvoker does not treat summoning evil creatures or working with them as an evil act, using them to do evil things is still as evil as ever.
I'm still not sure I agree that Geasing a creature to do something it can't reasonably do counts as torture, any more than bestow curse spells. Now the Imp suggestion later on - well that Imp would DEFINITELY torture the succubus - no question about it.
Does allowing, even facilitating evil creatures to commit evil acts against other evil creatures change your alignment to Evil? If so, then the Malconvoker would be unplayable, as that is the theme of the class (which cannot be evil by entry requirements.)
Some DM's are weird when it comes to alignment. If you are in a good campaign and Planar Bind in the way above - some DM's will suggest your alignment should be evil.
The EXACT SAME DM's in an evil campaign would warn you that using said succubus toward good ends should change your alignment to good.
I hate pigeonholing that way, but there's no denying it happens. You have a Malconvoker that is without question a mix of good and evil. He tolerates, and even commits some evil for the greater good.
If the actions that character acts upon are more often good than evil - by definition that character should either be neutral leaning towards good, or good leaning towards neutral. There is absolutely no justification for the character to be evil aligned at all.
Only if my character starts acting evil MORE than good is his alignment in trouble (Again, Paladin's or classes with a Code of Conduct are different)
If your DM is the unyeilding type - go with absolute Neutral.
So, what is your suggestion on how to use Planar Binding more effectively?
As for alignment - my personal preference is to have my characters personality define my alignment - not vise versa. If my DM says the way I play my character he would define as Neutral - no big deal - I just erase the "G" on the sheet. hardly metagaming.
Having your alignment define your personality as a bunch of absolutes - creating 7 clearly defined interpretations of good and evil - with no grey area inbetween - I would consider that Metagaming.
I read the Malconvoker Flavor as one willing to perform a bit of questionable acts as an means to an end. That's the flavor I like. I described as much in the Guide. If my DM says such a character cannot be good - I would consider him to be incorrect (No such alignment requirement exists - in fact the reverse does). However, it's his game - so I wouldn't argue about it and erase the "G" already.
As it happens, I have a DM who saw the PrC in the same way I did. My character is currently NG, but occassionally performs acts that are questionable - all in the name of the greater good. My DM is on board with that - the character is interesting and fun to play.
If you think such a character isn't your style - no problem. If you are DM'ing and you don't think one of your Players characters should be able to play a mixed alignment - that's between you and them I guess.
(Really, this all applies to anyone using Planar Binding - but the malconvoker already walks a tricky line, both morally in terms of ends justifying the means and practically in terms of the risk of his lies being spotted. As Planar Binding is also a focus of the class's abilities, I think it's appropriate here.)
At the least, I feel that the bit about How To Brainwash A Succubus should have a warning that some DMs will consider this an evil act regardless of your ability to summon evil creatures without moral consequence.
I'm sure many DM's would consider it an evil act. Fortunately - as a non-paladin you get the option to occassionally do evil acts as long as you are more good than evil.
A DM that threatens to change your character's alignment to evil because he is behaving in a way that although strongly favors good, is mixed, is not a problem most players are likely to encounter.
If your DM insists every player must read the description of their alignment stereotype and play it unquestioningly - I wouldn't suggest a Malconvoker for that player - so ignore the whole guide.
In general, any of the "browbeat into submission" methods will also open you to the risk of making long-term personal vendettas and having your orders subverted once they recover from your various debuffs;
The Planar Binding spell by its very nature is not friendly. You are confusing it with Planar Ally. There is nothing cooperative about Planar Binding. You trap an entity in a magic circle and then bargain for the terms of its release. You don't need anything else to risk personal vendettas.
The Malconvoker doesn't specialize in Planar Ally. You may trick these demons into believing you are evil and have evil goals - but you are unlikely to become friends with them. If you were supposed to be friends with them - the Malconvoker would get Planar Ally bonuses - like reduced costs or something - I don't know - that would be a different class altogether.
No demon is going to be released from a Planar Binding and not consider revenge. "Well, at least he didn't geas me as well" won't come up. The best you can do is make the thought of what will happen to them if they exact revenge too horrible to ever consider it. Some may anyways - that's the nature of the spell.
one nice thing about Deceitful Bargaining is that it explicitly works by making the target think your goals are in line with its own, so there's no logical reason it would hold that against you if it doesn't spot the lie. Browbeating may allow you to bind more powerful allies, but if they're resentful they may subvert orders and be generally less effective.
Again, their resentment is assured via the very nature of the Planar Binding spell. Acting in a way that is evil and vindictive to the Demon is not likely to convince it that your goals aren't in line with its own - demons treat each other much the same. However, you will never be friends. If you want to be freinds with demons you call - use Planar Ally.
As for purposeful misinterpretations of your commands - this is normal with the spell. There's no way to get around it. I would suggest wording your final deal very carefully, and severely punishing those who make obvious misinterpretations.
They are bound by the deal they make - so misinterpretations are the worst you should get - actual defiance should not be permitted by the nature of the spell.
For this reason I would tend to suggest that the malconvoker try to get as much as possible out of bonuses to his own check rather than overt debuffs dropped onto the bound creature.
Again - being fair and decent to the demon won't convince it that your goals are like to its own. Fair and decent behavior will be a dead giveaway that you are good aligned - and it will still consider you just as much of an enemy. However, you do fail to strengthen your position of bargaining. If you wish to do it this way - perhaps pick very low cha choices - I did list some in the Guide for just such occassions.
(Really, this all applies to anyone using Planar Binding - but the malconvoker already walks a tricky line, both morally in terms of ends justifying the means and practically in terms of the risk of his lies being spotted.
Yes - the tricky line is mentioned in the flavor text. You should play your character edgy if you want to play the Malconvoker according to the flavor text (Which I like - but don't restrict your own character too much by someone elses ideas).
Some classes go so far as to get into the way the character must be played in the mechanics text - the Malconvoker doesn't.
You are intended by nature of the class to play it a certain way. Doing so should not be punished by the DM, but instead treated as the Prestige Class being played as intended.
Same going for bluffing creatures. The mechanics involve a simple roll. For roleplaying everyone has their own style - I like to convince the critters I'm an evil demonbinder type, using them in some evil mastermind scheme so complicated they could never understand and should never question, and that they should fear and obey.
I agree that the Planar Binding should be roleplayed the same way
But again - to each their own. That's the great thing about flavor text - read it and interpret it the way that works for you. This is your character - enjoy! I don't expect anyone to read my guide and go "That's exactly the character I will play". Use it for mechanic or flavor ideas - then fit it to your own character.
Then again, if you don't think it'll try to get even you're a fool.
Here's the boring rules text on the matter:
Show
Bolded parts are the main points.
Red part is my comment.
Bolded parts are the main points.
Red part is my comment.
SRD[/url]']Planar Binding, Lesser
Conjuration (Calling) [see text]
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 10 minutes
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels); see text
Target: One elemental or outsider with 6 HD or less
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: No and Yes; see text
Casting this spell attempts a dangerous act: to lure a creature from another plane to a specifically prepared trap, which must lie within the spell’s range. The called creature is held in the trap until it agrees to perform one service in return for its freedom.
To create the trap, you must use a magic circle spell, focused inward. The kind of creature to be bound must be known and stated. If you wish to call a specific individual, you must use that individual’s proper name in casting the spell.
Of course, you should make the fiend tell you its proper name when you first bind it. -me
The target creature is allowed a Will saving throw. If the saving throw succeeds, the creature resists the spell. If the saving throw fails, the creature is immediately drawn to the trap (spell resistance does not keep it from being called). The creature can escape from the trap with by successfully pitting its spell resistance against your caster level check, by dimensional travel, or with a successful Charisma check (DC 15 + ½ your caster level + your Cha modifier). It can try each method once per day. If it breaks loose, it can flee or attack you. A dimensional anchor cast on the creature prevents its escape via dimensional travel. You can also employ a calling diagram (see magic circle against evil) to make the trap more secure.
If the creature does not break free of the trap, you can keep it bound for as long as you dare. You can attempt to compel the creature to perform a service by describing the service and perhaps offering some sort of reward. You make a Charisma check opposed by the creature’s Charisma check. The check is assigned a bonus of +0 to +6 based on the nature of the service and the reward. If the creature wins the opposed check, it refuses service. New offers, bribes, and the like can be made or the old ones reoffered every 24 hours. This process can be repeated until the creature promises to serve, until it breaks free, or until you decide to get rid of it by means of some other spell. Impossible demands or unreasonable commands are never agreed to. If you roll a 1 on the Charisma check, the creature breaks free of the binding and can escape or attack you.
Once the requested service is completed, the creature need only so inform you to be instantly sent back whence it came. The creature might later seek revenge. If you assign some open-ended task that the creature cannot complete though its own actions the spell remains in effect for a maximum of one day per caster level, and the creature gains an immediate chance to break free. Note that a clever recipient can subvert some instructions.
When you use a calling spell to call an air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, or water creature, it is a spell of that type.
SRD[/url]']Calling
A calling spell transports a creature from another plane to the plane you are on. The spell grants the creature the one-time ability to return to its plane of origin, although the spell may limit the circumstances under which this is possible. Creatures who are called actually die when they are killed; they do not disappear and reform, as do those brought by a summoning spell (see below). The duration of a calling spell is instantaneous, which means that the called creature can’t be dispelled.
The demons like die here eh?
Yes - recalling the demon and killing it is a real option. I'll add that to the guide.
prototype00
Just found something interesting: Golden Desert Honey, an optional material component from Complete Mage (p. 136). Requires one dose (300 GP) for each level of the spell you wish to affect, but reduces the casting time of a summoning spell with a casting time of 1 round to 1 standard action with no level adjustment. Very useful for non-wizards, or characters whose DMs won't allow them to take the UA rapid summoning variant. It's a little pricey since you have to use so much, but in the right situation, it can be very valuable.
Just a quick bump in case this flew under your radar, since you didn't make any comment on it.
Just a small aside, using the standard action summoning variant in UA, the monsters you summon can only take a standard action in the round you summon them, unlike regular summoning where they can take a full action.
prototype00
That is true. The info is in UA for those interested in the variant.
Just a quick bump in case this flew under your radar, since you didn't make any comment on it.
Whoops - thanks for the reminder. I intended to look at it further but got sidetracked.
I'll take a closer look tomorrow after work.
Thats something I've been contemplating lately. It it really worth it to get fiendish legion two levels earlier, or to simply progress spellcasting a bit beforehand? Its one thing to start at late levels when you would have lost the caster level anyway, but another thing alogether if you go strait from level one up.
In your all opinions, is it worth it to go directly into Malkonvoker at level 6 (for the third build) or should one get up to level 4 Master Specialist first?
Thats something I've been contemplating lately. It it really worth it to get fiendish legion two levels earlier, or to simply progress spellcasting a bit beforehand? Its one thing to start at late levels when you would have lost the caster level anyway, but another thing alogether if you go strait from level one up.
Certainly it could be debated.
From a personal standpoint - I would recommend level 6 as entry for Malconvoker for every build. Fiendish Legion will be the premeir summoning ability for any summon monster based character - so the earlier you get it the better.
SM III is a very strong SM overall. So when choosing which level to take the pain (lost spellcasting level), level 6 isn't too bad a choice.
Levels 6-9 will be a little bit tougher than they otherwise would have. It is unfortunate that the best Malconvoker ability is level 5, but you lose your spellcasting level at level 1. However, the investment will pay off in spades at level 10.
The level 4 MS ability is pretty decent - but won't be a big thing in the long run. Take a look at the various HP of summoned critters by SM IV and beyond. Adding your spellcaster level isn't that huge (certainly decent - but that's it)
IMO anyways.
Just a quick bump in case this flew under your radar, since you didn't make any comment on it.
I've added it to the guide under magic item suggestions.
Looking at it, I like the fact that one dose can power any summon spell with Rapid spell. This means SM IX (which would require an expensive rod), or less obvious options (Mount spell?) could be used with it.
I also was thinking that if you use this it could be used in conjunction with a different metamagic rod at the same time (which is an advantage over the rapid spell rod).
Normally I'm not a big fan of 1 use items - but like the panic button, I think some Golden Desert Honey (a few doses kept at all times) could be a lifesaver for those who don't auto-cast Rapid spell.
Thanks for the input!
Even though the non UA conjurer has to use rapid spell to make his summons more viable, he doesn't suffer from the one standard action when summoned penalty on summoned monsters with the UA rapid summoning variant.
Therefore, while the non UA conjurer could pull off the pouncing full attacking flanking fiendish dire tigers trick you mention, ironically the UA conjurer could not.
prototype00
Just a small point in favor of the non UA rapid summoning variant conjurer.
Even though the non UA conjurer has to use rapid spell to make his summons more viable, he doesn't suffer from the one standard action when summoned penalty on summoned monsters with the UA rapid summoning variant.
Therefore, while the non UA conjurer could pull off the pouncing full attacking flanking fiendish dire tigers trick you mention, ironically the UA conjurer could not.
prototype00
Which raises the question for me as to whether or not a Rapid Summoning Conjurer is able to opt for the full-round casting rather than a standard action casting to be able to pull off the pouncing flanking fiendish tiger move.
Rapid Summoning
Rapid Summoning (Ex)
Any time a conjurer using this variant casts a summon monster spell, its casting time is 1 standard action rather than 1 full round. (Creatures so summoned can only take a standard action in the round they are summoned.) Conjurers using this variant gain the normal benefits from enhancing a summon monster spell with the Quicken Spell feat.
A conjurer using this variant permanently gives up the ability to obtain a familiar.
a useful thing you could add to the guide would be a (formal) list of spells that you have access to as SLAs of summoned creatures. something of a format seen here:
(spell level) (spell name) (creature who has it as an SLA) (caster level the creature has for the SLA) (how many times the SLA can be used) (level of summon monster [or planar binding] used to get the monster) (etc.)
it would be useful, but not by any means necessary.
great guide, it made me want to play this class. (before i read this guide, alienist sounded good! boy was i wrong!)
a useful thing you could add to the guide would be a (formal) list of spells that you have access to as SLAs of summoned creatures. something of a format seen here:
(spell level) (spell name) (creature who has it as an SLA) (caster level the creature has for the SLA) (how many times the SLA can be used) (level of summon monster [or planar binding] used to get the monster) (etc.)
it would be useful, but not by any means necessary.
I actually was considering that. Maybe I'll have a chance to start the list today.
Just a small point in favor of the non UA rapid summoning variant conjurer.
Even though the non UA conjurer has to use rapid spell to make his summons more viable, he doesn't suffer from the one standard action when summoned penalty on summoned monsters with the UA rapid summoning variant.
Therefore, while the non UA conjurer could pull off the pouncing full attacking flanking fiendish dire tigers trick you mention, ironically the UA conjurer could not.
prototype00
According to the SRD:
If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.
Please see relevant SRD HERE
Since the Summoned Creature is restricted to a standard action - it is OK for a single move charge.
Is there anything about pounce not working with a standard move charge I was unaware of?
prototype00
Nope, you're completely correct. I had forgotten that zombies could charge.
prototype00
It was still worth bringing up. I had missed the standard action only until you brought it up a few days ago. (told my DM I was cheating unintentionally).
The standard action can be covered (or will make no difference) in several situations. However - if you are dealing with multiple attack creatures without pounce - or need your summons to close distance with an enemy - the Standard Action limitation will be a pain.
It is worth questioning if Rapid Summoning is required to be used with each summoning spell, or whether the Summoner can "choose" to apply Rapid Spell to a non-rapid summons. I'm guessing there is no official rule. Most DM's would allow it I expect - it is hardly unreasonable.
Also - to all readers: I am going to be giving the thread a major overhaul/reorganization/expansion over the next week or so. .
Please be patient.The reorganization will be done by Friday night - the rest - over the next week.
Plans are to link alot of the relevant information so that the guide is easier to navigate for return users - as well as easier to edit for me. This guide is getting bigger than I had originally expected (which is great), and I enjoy keeping it up - but the editing is becoming difficult.
By next Friday it should be like a whole new thread - I encourage everyone to come see it then.
In the meantime - if you see this thread getting bumped - it is just me linking old information into new posts
The first level ability has a +1 metamagic added to spells for free. You think "That's not enough to make this worthwhile"
The fourth level ability effectively doubles one of your specialty feats. You now think "Still not enough."
The fifth level ability then adds +4 Metamagic to spells for free (thats +5 levels of metamagic for free). You read it again - yes - thats +5 metamagic levels to spells free.
You must have been reading the Malconvoker.
There are many advantages to playing a Summoner (as pointed out in the links above), but if you are willing to focus completely on summoning - nothing beats a Malconvoker. You may not have the best HP, BAB, AC, or be as good at the other spells - but when it comes to Summoning - you will be king.
Up to the time I looked at the Malconvoker I was of the opinion that you should never consider a PrC that reduces your spellcasting level. The Malconvoker does this at level 1.
However, level one of the Malconvoker gives an extend spell effect on all Summon Monster spells where you summon evil creatures as long as you beat their sense motive with a bluff (free action bluff)
The fourth level of the Malconvoker gives a +2 to damage on all attacks and +2 HP/HD to any evil creatures which were summoned with the first level ability.
The fifth level of Malconvoker adds an extra creature when you summon an evil creature. That's basically a free Twin Spell. If you use a Summon Monster to summon lesser level creatures, it works out closer to an empower spell (still very good).
If you are a Wizard/Cleric who pops off the occasional Summon Monster spell – this isn’t a worthy trade. If you are a Wizard/Cleric who specializes in Summon Monster spells – this is just too good to pass up.
The Summoner’s handbook : A general guide for Summoners of all types.
I would like to aknowledge this thread:
Mastering the summoned monster – a comprehensive guide : My inspiration for summon by summon analysis. Also, my cut and paste template for Summon Monster comparison. (Thanks Faithless Wonder Boy)
Also - this thread was created at the same time mine was. Since you are likely to be a Conjurer - you should check it out. (Echodork and I had a long debate on the effectiveness of Druids vs Arcane summoners as well as the usefulness of SNA vs SM. He has made some alterations to the handbook accordingly - which was appriciated!.)
The Conjurer's Handbook
The best ability the Malconvoker gets is Infernal Legion at level 5, this makes level 5 an ideal breaking point if you want to pick up some different PrC levels.
Level 6 gives you (IMO) the best Planar Binding ability with Deceitful Bargaining. This gives a decent break point with lots of Summon Monster specialization, and decent boost to Planar Binding.
Red: Very strong choice
Blue: Good choice
Green: Fair choice
Cleric: Not a bad choice if you start with the Summoning domain. You will give up the wizard’s alternate class features in exchange for a better AC and BAB. Take this if Summoning isn’t your only focus. (Actually, one tactic that can be excellent for Cleric/Malconvokers is to use Twin Spell or Repeat Spell metamagic along with Divine Metamagic for extra conjurations. It is a feat hungry build - but by high levels this can add up to quite a few creatures - at least comparable with the Master Specialist 10 option for Conjurers - thank you Sigfried for the suggestion)
Wizard: This is my favourite option. Especially when using the various alternate class features which can improve Summon Monster spells. Obviously, you should specialize in Conjurer. If your DM does not allow the Rapid Summoning alternate class feature from UA – go with Cleric or Archavist instead. It is that one option that makes the Wizard shine as a Malconvoker.
Wizard Class Variants to take/not to take:
Focused Specialist: I would not recommend this for most wizards going into high level campaigns, but since you will be memorizing at least 3 Summon Monster spells per level - this is actually a no-brainer. You do have to give up one more spell school (which hurts) - but alternate casting is the secondary purpose of your character.
Enhanced Summoning: You get Augment Summoning as a free feat at first level instead of Scribe Scroll. This is a no-brainer. If you continue Conjurer to level 5, your summons are harder to dispel (+2 caster level check). If you continue to level 10, your Augment Summoning bonuses improve to +6/+6. Feel free to jump ship early on. The first level ability is the best.
Rapid Summoning:This is a must have. Yes, you must sacrifice Immediate Magic (which hurts), but you have no choice. You are a summoner first and foremost. Standard action Summon Monster spells are what makes the Conjurer Summoner better than the Cleric summoner.
Spontaneous Summoning:This is a bad option. No need for spontaneous summoning - just memorize it. Your spells lose a whole level by using this variant - definitely not worth it at any level.
Archavist:: This is a pretty strong entry choice. You will be able to cast both Summon Monster and Summon Nature's Ally (of course none of your Malconvoker abilities will extend to Summon Nature's ally - but your Summoning feats/items will). You will need to take one of the other methods to make your summoning rapid (Feats/magic items). This just means more options when summoning - and options are always good.
I think flavor-wise this is also a good option. A very nice mix with Malconvoker.
Wu Jen: Not a bad option. You are looking at less spells to cast then a specialist wizard, and there's no Rapid Spell variant, however, your DM might consider allowing Rapid Spell as an applicable spell secret since it's a 1 level metamagic enhancement. This would have to be houseruled though - because in the RAW it isn't offered.
The most attractive part of the Wu Jen would be the ability to reroll initiative rolls. That can be a big boost for a Summoner. (only if you are using Rapid Metamagic though)
Sorcerer: Can’t qualify until level 7, and since you will be casting the same spell most of the time – spontaneous casting is less of an advantage. (you will actually have less castings than a focused specialist conjurer as well). However, Bluff is a class skill, and CHA will be high – which is an advantage to Bluff and to Planar Binding spells. (Bonzai also points out that Sorcerers can get the summoning domain with a 5th level substitution level in CC. This gives all the spells of the domain and the +2 CL for Conjuration (Summoning) spells). The thing to think about with the sorcerer/wizard choice is this: Do I want the CHA, or the Rapid Summoning? My personal preference is for the standard action castings - but there is definitely a counter-argument to be had.
Other Options: Some other options exist in the Splatbooks (such as favoured soul) – none are particularly better suited than the above.
If you choose one of the non-conjurer options, or your DM does not allow Unearthed Arcana material (Rapid summoning variant in particular). Then take the Rapid spell feat, use Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration) to power it 3 times/day. At higher levels, Arcane Thesis can give you unlimited uses with SM IX and VIII for example.
What NOT to take
(Just because you "can" doesn't mean you "should")
Bard: Yep, the Bard can qualify by level 7. However, you won't get many summon spells per day, you will get lower level summon spells, and you will never get access to Summon Monster VII, VIII, or IX. Buffing abilities aside, this makes the Bard a sub-par summoner.
Beguiler/True Necromancer/Warmage etc: This applies to any arcane caster that does not have Summon Monster III on their casting list. The "trick" of course is to take Arcane Disciple feat with the Summoning Domain which will give access to SM III. Of course you won't get access to SM VI, VIII, or IX - and the rest you can only cast once per day. Always a terrible option.
The answer is any that boost Summon Monster/Conjuration/Planar binding.
Thaumaturgist(DMG): Extend spell metamagic on all Summon Monster spells for free is nice (but not huge at high levels)
Master Specialist(CM): The 4th level grants your caster level to HP of summoned creatures, level 10 allows you to quicken 3 standard action spells/day. If you have the Rapid Spell conjurer variant – that’s your Summon Monster spells
Paragnostic Apostle(CC): Can give all your summons Fast Healing
Fatespinner (CA): Have your summoned creature reroll its Sense Motive with "fickle finger of fate", or you could just reroll your Bluff with "resist fate"- or, if necessary, both. Works for opposed CHA rolls for Planar Binding spells too. Furthermore - you can add spin to your Bluff checks too. Break at level 4 for maximum synergy.
Archmage (DMG): Originally I didn't think so - then I thought of using every High Arcana to switch the Malconvoker's highest spell slots for Summon Monster SLA's. With 2 uses per day each - that's a whole lot more SM VIII's and IX's. Qualifying for the PrC is easy enough. A dip into MS gets you Skill Focus (Spellcraft), you already have Spell Focus (Conjuration)...
Sacred Exorcist (CD): Too easy to qualify for, irregardless of base class. A nice scaling unnamed bonus to various rolls against evil outsiders that includes BLUFF. First level gives you Turn Undead - allowing the non-clerics to take the various divine feats and such. Some other nice features too. Worthy for a 1 level dip - or a 10 level marathon swim.
Not as good as it sounds:
Nar Demonbinder (UE): Unfortunately, although the flavor of this class is perfect, the mechanics for spellcasting hurt you too badly to be worth it. You will give up 9th level spells completely, and you will get 1 casting of an 8th level spell. When you go back to your previous class - you are building on your spellcasting from before you took the PrC - making 15th level your best spellcaster progression. Ouch!
Ultimate Magus (CM): You can actually combine Ultimate Magus with Nar Demonbinder to make a half decent summoning build. I've actually charted out the spellcasting for this build - and although it holds its own - it isn't your best bet. If you are in love with the Ultimate Magus (many are) - it is do-able.
Never take:
Alienist: You just removed all evil Summons from your Summon Monster list. Now you suck.
Also avoid any PrC’s that remove additional spellcasting levels (you’ve already lost one).
Rather than listing all the good races that could work – let me give you a few guidelines:
Good: Anything with bonus feats, bonuses to Int, bonuses to Cha, bonuses to Con
Bad: Anything with a level adjustment. Or minuses to the above stats without a bonus to another of the above stats.
Easy enough?
Bluff: Obviously. Get enough to qualify for Malconvoker – then Max it out.
Languages: Infernal and Abyssal, plus Ignan, Terran, Auran, Aquan and Celestial.
Knowledges: The Planes and Arcana. A bit of knowledge in what you do.
Spellcraft: Good for any caster. Especially for you - it fortifies your Magic Circle for planar binding spells.
Concentration: Also good for any caster. If you don’t have the Wizard – rapid spell variant – then this is twice as important.
See the Summoning Handbook thread above. In addition:
Summon Elemental (CM): Any summoner should take this Reserve feat as soon as it's available (CM)
Improved Initiative (PHB): is nice to have in conjunction with Rapid Summoning. It gives your boys a better chance to hit the enemy flat footed.
Practiced Spellcaster (CA): Get that spellcasting level you lost back
Cloudy Conjuration (CM): Nice ability - summon the creature beside the opponent and cover your opponent in sickening smoke for free. Keep in mind that you just granted them concealment (though the right summons ignore that).
Fiendish Summoning Specialist (PH): Allows you to add one evil creature per level to your summon monster spells. It will require you to be of non-good alignment though (restricting you to the neutral alignments). (Planar Handbook) - (thanks to Roccu for this suggestion - very good!)
Item Familiar (UA): This feat is a variant from Unearthed Arcana. It allows you to "invest" 3 skill points into a magic item, in return the item grants a +1 unnamed bonus to any skill you choose (How about "Bluff"?). You can keep increasing the bonus up to your actual rank in the skill - so that can create a HUGE bluff score if you are willing to sacrifice your other skills. (Thanks Neomikelch for this suggestion)
Divine Metamagic (CD): If you are a Cleric - and combine this with Twin or Repeat spell - (or potentially both) you can get alot of summoned creatures onto the board. If your DM allows Nightsticks - this is easily as good as the other DMM/Nightstick abuses. Without nightsticks - it is still viable on a lesser level. An Archavist could qualify if Sacred Excorsist levels are taken.
Divine Accuracy (LM): Any Cleric or Malconvoker that has multiclassed with Sacred Excorcist can easily qualify for this very impressive feat that will allow you to exchange a turn attempt for re-rolls on missed attacks by you and your allies. Since summoned creatures sometimes have a decent miss chance - and you have multiples on the map - this becomes exceedingly good.
The two spell chains have different strengths:
Summon Natures Ally: Most offense and HP as soon as possible
Summon Monster: More defense (DR/resistances), more INT, more SLA creatures, more choices.
You will see many creatures listed on Summon Natures Ally appear at one higher level with Summon Monster except they've added the Fiendish/Celestial template. This does not improve HP or TO HIT.
However, I like the improvement to Int - that way I can tell my creature to attempt a grapple/trip/bull rush/sunder even if it isn't one of their standard attacks.
Also - animals require a "push" to get them to perform tricks (a DC 25 handle animal check) - including getting them to change targets, or to defend you for example. The creature will not respond until its next action.
Fortunately - with Fiendish Legion - the Summon Monster has more offense and HP too - so the debate is solved.
Edit: Echodork has pointed out that the Greenbound Summoning feat (FR specific) will give the SNA creatures superior resistances to Fiendish Creatures. He also points out this increases their offensive capabilities. This is true. For pure damage production SNA is superior to SM. Fiendish Legion makes this close, but up to the point you get that (Probably level 10) the Druid's SNA will produce greater damage. After that - the Malconvoker is clearly the better summoning option at all levels up to 20.
However, the points above all still hold. Greenbound summoning does not increase INT, furthermore, it does not improve any non-animal creatures summoned with SNA (So anything above animal intellegence).
1. A Malconvoker can substitute for a party fighter-type: The casting should be a standard action - and then you have huge expendible blobs of HP blocking you and your precious caster allies from the baddies.
2. Malconvoker's are masters of Battefield control - Whether you want to Grapple, Bull Rush, Sunder, or Trip - there is a summoned monster that can do it. How's a grapple score of +52 sound to you? You can get this with a summoned monster - without any buffing at all. Oh yeah - and you get two of them.
3. A Malconvoker can substitute for the party scout: At mid to high levels - those low level Summon Monsters have to be good for something. You can summon creatures with excellent Hide/Move silently/Spot/Listen and search checks. Many also have tremorsense or blindsense for picking up invisible foes. Have them check stuff out for you - then report back. You've got great durations. Oh yeah - can your party scout glide through walls? You should have gotten the malconvoker to send an earth elemental through - have him come back and report.
4. A Malconvoker has spell versitility: Really you do. Check out the lists below for some of the Spell Like Abilities available to summoned monsters. Summon the one you need - and have it cast the spell for you. For example - how many Walls of Ice can a 14th level Conjurer cast? If you said 2/round for 15 rounds for a total of 30, you would be wrong (if that conjurer happens to be a Malconvoker)- because the Malconvoker does that with one SM VII (Ice Devilx2), and he has 3 memorized - so 90 would actually be the correct number.
Oh - wait - I forgot Deceptive Summons. Make that 180. That's without any magic item enhancements.
And the SLA's available are nearly endless - and since you don't have to pick which creature (S) you are summoning until you cast the spell - that's spell versitility.
5. A Malconvoker can check for traps: While the term "trapmonkey" is normally a metaphorical term - to you it's literal. Oh those poor celestial monkeys.
6. A Malconvoker saves the Cleric healing spells: There is no way to get an opponents attention off you than to grapple him with a summoned creature. The enemy attacks the creature - and at the end of the combat - if the creature is still alive - you dismiss it.
7. A Malconvoker can do great damage to opponents: Check out the Fiendish tiger. Now pretend you summon 2 with Fiendish legion at level 10. Buff them both up with Augment/Infernal fury. Summon them on either side of your opponent - and have them both charge - gaining 5 attacks each (one with flanking bonus). Work out the damage. Yeah - it's huge. Next round they'll keep attacking and the damage will keep coming.
8. Malconvokers are good against all opponents: If the opponent is a flyer - summon 2 Giant Wasps, if the opponent is Aquatic, summon 2 giant sharks, if the opponent is burrowing, summon 2 Dire Weasels, If the opponent is a spellcaster, summon high SR creatures, etc etc etc. The Summon Monster list is big at all levels. Lots to choose from for any occassion.
Hint: When using Infernal Fury you can place both creatures anywhere in your range. Use them to flank your opponent and both full attack – with flanking bonuses. Or even better – have the critters on opposite sides of your opponent – but have one of them 10’ away. Have the one that is 10’ away charge (getting charge and flanking bonuses) and the other just attack (with flank).
Obviously you should take all 9. Always have many of these spells memorized – no spell is better for you than this one.
Because of the nature of the Malconvoker – evil creatures tend to be your best summon. After 5 levels in Malconvoker – Evil creatures will almost always be your best bet.
However, there are some major considerations you must make. Especially if you are a Conjurer/Malconvoker:
You must have access to Abjuration in order to use Planar Binding spells (For Magic Circle against evil)
Enchantment school is very helpful (multiple spells will help you in your opposed CHA check - some might help you avoid it altogether)
Necromancy school has similar bonuses to Enchantment (although less so)
So if you play a Specialist wizard or a Focused specialist wizard - never give up Abjuration or Enchantment. Necromancy is less important, but still helpful.
(A nice tactic is after your original summons are engaging the enemy – cast a SM I, pick Dire Rat, have them flank your summons opponent, and have them “Aid another”. That’s +4 for your main summon to hit.) Their own damages will be too small to have any effect.
Avoid summoning these against opponents with Cleave!
A small monstrous spider can web a medium creature. Even though the webs aren’t strong – they take a standard action to remove. That has use even at high levels (provided they can hit).
Outside Combat: At mid-high levels the SMI spell ceases to be much use in combat beyond aiding/flanking (and with malconvoker 5, your summoned creatures are probably already flanking)– however there are other uses.
The main ones are probe/trap monkey. Monstrous Spiders have tremorsense and can detect invisible foes for you. Celestial Monkeys make trapmonkey a non-metaphorical term, as they can turn handles and open chests. Poor celestial monkey. Dire rats are excellent scouts with hide/move silently/spot and listen.
Mixed with the malconvoker: The Spiders will be most useful to you in combat (as a secondary spell) bring them in to flank or to web. Tremorsense find hidden foes. Use Dire rats for scouts or aid/flank buddies. With Deceptive summons they should have time to do the job.
Treantmonk’s favourite: The Fiendish spider – it’s OK off the bat – webbing remains good for a few more levels. Tremorsense will be useful for a long time.
They wasted our time with: The Scorpion. It can improved grab tiny creatures – has terrible stats, and has a -3 to hit with poison tail. How did this make the list?
Love the guide treant I'll see if I can't put together a nice sorcerer guide in the next day or so.
Thanks SnarkHunter! (and a sorcerer guide is long overdue)
I'll give it a visit when you get it up and running.Combat: Your best two combatants at this level are the riding dog and the wolf. The riding dog does a bit more damage/better to hit, the wolf has trip. The large centipede has a not bad grapple if grappling is what you want to do (it will provoke an AoO). Medium spiders can web up to large foes.
Outside Combat: Not much here unless you are out of SM I, in which case the medium spider can fulfill the roll of the small easy enough.
Mixed with the malconvoker: The wolf becomes the best combatant, but purely secondary compared to what you can summon with higher level spells. The wolf (augmented) has a +5 to hit and a +3 trip modifier. If you think this can help – throw them in as a secondary summons.
Treantmonk’s favourite: The Fiendish wolf. The first battlefield control summons. Wolf’s trip ability saves an otherwise poor SM level.
They wasted our time with: The Celestial giant bee. It dies if it hits with its attack. For a penalty like that – the rest better be great – it isn’t.
Combat: Before malconvoker, the Celestial Bison is a star. Afterwards, Fiendish ape. If you want improved grab, you have two options at this level – the croc is usually the stronger choice of the two. At this level some creatures have DR 5/magic and some don't. The ones that do are the Celestial Bison, the Fiendish Ape, the Fiendish Huge Centipede, and the Fiendish Dire Bat. Keep this in mind when thinking about HP of your summons.
Outside Combat: Earth elementals can glide through walls, come back, and tell you what they saw. If you have pyromaniac tendancies, the fire elemental/Hell hound burn stuff real good.
Mixed with the malconvoker: Got to like the fiendish ape. Great chance to hit, 3 attacks/round, good HP. If you want size, the centipede is HUGE, this is your strongest bet for pure grapple score. Constrictors and Crocs both get improved grab if you don’t want to provoke an AoO. The Crocs stats are better, but the constrictor does better damage once the grapple is in place.
Treantmonk’s favourite: The Fiendish ape. Why do I like the ape more than the bison? Well, statistically it’s almost as good (HP suffer a bit), but you get 3 attacks, it can pick up stuff, and it’s evil. (Better for after Malconvoker levels)
They wasted our time with: The Fiendish Boar. This doesn’t nearly stack up to the Bison or the Ape – what were they thinking?
*Works on “self only”
Scare – (3rd)(Dretch)(2/12)(1/x)
Stinking Cloud- (2nd)(Dretch)(2/13)(1)
The Archivist (HoH) makes a decent base class entry.
I'm afraid I don't have the book - I'll take your word on it.
I'm afraid I don't have the book - I'll take your word on it.
It's availible as an excerpt here. Basically has access to all divine spell lists
Combat: For charging the celestial lion is terrific. Dire wolves get trip (with a decent score) and good HP. Howlers get the terrific quills (and they are stackable). Against one BBEG, the howlers are the way to go. Against multiples – the dire wolf is better. If DR of the opponent is a problem – Lantern Archons ignore it.
Outside Combat, or non melee combat aids: Lantern archons are stuffed with useful SLA’s, and if summoned close can protect your party with aura of menace and magic circle against evil. If you are approaching large groups of enemies – a yeth hound can be sent 305’ ahead and bay. That’s a 300 radius spread!
Mixed with the malconvoker: Summoning 2 dire wolves that begin in flank and both are making trip attempts is huge. Even after SMV is available this is a strong option. If the opponent is very large – then go with howlers. The quills stack, and those -1’s add up.
Treantmonk’s favourite: The howler. Once you can summon 2 at a time those quills add up. I love that they lower saves too.
They wasted our time with: The Celestial Giant Owl. This is on par with the Dire Bat of the previous level – how did it ever make SMIV?
*Works on “self only”
Aid-(2nd)(Lantern Archon)(3/x)(at will)
Blur*-(2nd)(Air Mephit)(6/x)(1)
Blur*-(2nd)(Dust Mephit)(6/x)(1)
Blur*-(2nd)(Steam Mephit)(3/x)(1)
Chill Metal-(2nd)(Ice Mephit)(6/14)(1)
Continual Flame-(2nd)(Lantern Archon)(3/x)(at will)
Detect Evil-(1st)(Lantern Archon)(3/x)(at will)
Glitterdust-(2nd)(Salt Mephit)(3/14)(1)
Gust of wind-(2nd)(Air Mephit)(6/14)(1)
Heat Metal-(2nd)(Fire Mephit)(6/14)(1)
Magic Circle Against Evil*-(3rd)(Lantern Archon)(1/x)(always on)
Magic Missile-(1st)(Ice Mephit)(3/x)(1)
Melf’s Acid Arrow-(2nd)(Ooze Mephit)(3/x)(1)
Melf’s Acid Arrow-(2nd)(Water Mephit)(3/x)(1)
Pyrotechnics-(2nd)(Magma Elemental)(6/14)(1)
Scorching ray-(2nd)(Fire Mephit)(3/14)(1)
Soften Earth and Stone-(2nd)(Earth Mephit)(6/x)(1)
Stinking Cloud-(3rd)(Ooze Mephit)(6/15)(1)
Stinking Cloud-(3rd)(Water Mephit)(6/15)(1)
Tongues*-(3rd)(Lantern Archon)(14/x)(always on)
Wind Wall – (3rd)(Dust Mephit)(6/13)(1)
Spell power does increase your CL at a higher rate than master specialist. And I never understood what's so great at the 9th lvl ability of the malconvoker 'safe summoning'.
With the leadership feat and some acolytes, this character could boost some of his offensive capabilities, and apply rapid spell to all of his summon spells
Worth a try?
Spell power does increase your CL at a higher rate than master specialist. And I never understood what's so great at the 9th lvl ability of the malconvoker 'safe summoning'.
It's basically the emergency ability. If for some reason all your fail-safes crumble and you have a Balor looking down at you very angrily, you can just send him away.
Thank you for this guide treant :D in my next dnd campaign I'm going to play a wiz5/ malconvoker8 / red wizard7
Spell power does increase your CL at a higher rate than master specialist. And I never understood what's so great at the 9th lvl ability of the malconvoker 'safe summoning'.
With the leadership feat and some acolytes, this character could boost some of his offensive capabilities, and apply rapid spell to all of his summon spells
Worth a try?
You will find at the level you enter Red Wizard that CL doesn't mean much. Your durations will be all very good with deceptive summoning anyways. Getting 18 rounds duration rather than 17 is kind of immaterial.
If Red Wizard is right for your character concept - then go for it. It still has full casting progression - so you will still rock - even if there isn't a lot of synergy between the PrC's.
I normally advocate Focused Specialists - but in this case I would be wary. Red Wizard makes you give up another school of magic. That would be 4 schools gone - not much left!!!!
The only real advantage of Malconvoker level 9 is the ability to fix things quick if things go wrong (Like you miss a deceptive summoning bluff check by 5 or more for example). If you take the right precautions - this is pretty circumstantial stuff. 8th level is a good breaking point.
The advantage of Master Specialist isn't so much the extra CL's. It is the HP boost to summons, the + to resist dispelling, and the 3 swift action summonings per day (when combined with UA Rapid Summoning variant).
However - MS is hardly required in any summoning build. There are no discernable disadvantages to taking MS, but there are lots of other good choices out there. As I mention in the guide - any PrC which gives full casting progression after Malconvoker and you will be OK (unless you go Alienist)
I should point out that the Red Wizard abilities really don't do much to help you with summoning. CL is not the reason why MS is a decent choice for summoners. MS is considered a decent choice because of extra HP to summoned creatures, + to resist dispelling, and 3 swift action summoning spells per day (If mixed with UA Rapid Summoning variant).
CL only adds to Range (not much) and Duration (which will be good by that level anyways) of summoned creatures. The Red Wizard abilities to defeat SR and add to DC's are completely useless with summoning.
Again, if Red Wizard is right for your character concept - I woudn't worry about it, but otherwise, the additional lost school just isn't providing a trade-off for enhancing your summoning at all.
when I was going to make a malconvoker/MS, a friend suggested red wizard since it allows me to boost my attack spells as well as increasing CL... CL to HP is irrelevant at med to high levels since you're throwing out high HP monsters anyway and that extra 30 or so HP won't make a difference.
+5 DC to dispel is mitigated a bit by a higher CL through spell power.
The level 10 ability is nice but was out of reach anyway because I want to be able to bind balors => Malc8 = max 9lvls MS
As we're playing a nongood party anyway (CN tiefling rogue, human thayan knight,...), I'll probably be fielding the red wizard
Coming to think of it, I absolutely hate wizards (I prefer sorcerers) but this will be an exception :D
... and what is cooler than standing with your acolytes around a massive pentagram, binding a balor (not that the acolytes do anything gamewise, they just wave their hands ;))
Excellent idea, but won't work for me. I am a CN cleric of Demogorgon, so I have access to Demonic, Corruption, Evil and Chaos.
Oh but to have access to the time domain ...
oki
CL to HP is irrelevant at med to high levels since you're throwing out high HP monsters anyway and that extra 30 or so HP won't make a difference.
+5 DC to dispel is mitigated a bit by a higher CL through spell power.
The level 10 ability is nice but was out of reach anyway because I want to be able to bind balors => Malc8 = max 9lvls MS
As we're playing a nongood party anyway (CN tiefling rogue, human thayan knight,...), I'll probably be fielding the red wizard
Coming to think of it, I absolutely hate wizards (I prefer sorcerers) but this will be an exception :D
... and what is cooler than standing with your acolytes around a massive pentagram, binding a balor (not that the acolytes do anything gamewise, they just wave their hands ;))
Let us know how it turns out for you.
Super-buffed, free trapmonkeys and door-greeters that actually linger around long enough to be more than a minor pain if a fight breaks out?
Sign me up.
prototype00
You can apply all those bonuses to summons that aren't evil outsiders? I thought that wasn't the case.
prototype00
Actually it's evil aligned creatures, but it still doesn't work. This has come up before and been shot down.
Beautiful, this is definatly going to see play in a future game, thank you for the hard work.
And thank you for the feedback. That is what makes this worthwhile for me! :D
According to the RAW, summon elemental functions like a summon monster spell. So theoretically, even though the duration for your elemental is supposed to be 1 round/highest SM spell level, you could use your deceptive summons to double that (as well as it getting all your other monster buffs), yes?
Nope - because elementals are normally neutral. Deceptive summons only works on evil summoning.
Your Augment Summoning feat will work though.
This feat is still a complete no-brainer for any summoner. As you mention - this is a trapmonkey you can kill again and again. (poor elementals!)
Nanshork is right - this has come up before.
If someone finds a way within the rules to summon evil elementals - let me know.
Secondly – assuming at least level 10, it is time to buy a ring of mighty summons (14,000 gp). It gives your creatures Max HP for their HD, but ½’s the duration of your spell. Since you get deceptive summons – that’s still 10 rounds (or more, depending on your feats). Long enough for most combats. The ring can be removed if you aren’t sure.
You can now get the Summon Elemental reserve feat. Get it ASAP.
Combat: Fiendish Giant Crocodiles. They are huge, good attack, improved grab. The brown bear is just as good, but you already have malconvoker – this is no choice. If you’re charging the tiger is good, and bearded devils get frenzy which is nice.
Outside Combat: Not much here.
Mixed with the malconvoker: Flank with the crocs – both attack, both get grapple attempts – pin and kill. Against big/strong opponents this tactic can still work. Leaving the flank provokes AoO, once again bringing improved grab into play. Eventually the grapple will hold. These things have great HP too.
Treantmonk’s favourite: Fiendish Huge Crocodiles. Love to flank with +23 grapple attacks
They wasted our time with: Fiendish deinonychus. Why is this even here? The stats blow for SM V. This should have been a SM IV. Same goes for the Fiendish Dire Ape.
Also: you now have Fiendish legion for certain. No point summoning non-evil creatures unless there is a specific ability you are after. If there isn’t some specific reason to summon a non-evil creature – I’ll simply point it out to you with the prime replacement summon.
Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/summon)
*Works on “self only”
Aid-(2nd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will)
Continual Flame-(2nd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will)
Detect Evil-(1st)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will)
Insanity-(7th)(Achaierai)(16/17)(3)(Reduced range/effect 3 hours)
Magic Circle Against Evil*-(3rd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(always on)
Message-(0)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(at will)
Tounges*-(3rd)(Hound Archon)(6/x)(always on)
Combat: If you are charging – the Rhino does great damage and can take a beating. If you carry around extra chains (you should), the Chain Devil has good offense. If you have room – the centipede has the best HP and grapple score. The constrictor snake is now your best all round grappler though (for the first time).
Outside Combat, or non melee combat aids: Lots here. Bralani have lots of SLA’s, for a few more, check Janni’s. Chain devils can create an effect that gimps your opponents (-2 mods)
Mixed with the malconvoker: Chain devils can get a lot of attacks (4/round) all with reach. The giant constrictor is a good grappler and does constrict damage. The Centipede is gargantuan. As you would assume, that means a heck of a lot of HP and a great grapple score.
Treantmonk’s favourite: Chain Devil. Dancing chains rocks.
They wasted our time with: Janni. Who thought that this was an equivalent summon to the Bralani?
Tip: If you carry some different kinds of chains (silver and cold iron) you can use chain devils to attack creatures that might normally have a DR hard for you to penetrate. You can carry 4 of each for only 16 lbs (not you of course – that’s what planar binding is for)
Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/summon)
*Works on “self only”
Blur – (2nd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/x)(at will)
Charm Person – (1st)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/13)(at will)
Create food and water – (3rd)(Janni, Genie)(7th/x)(1/day)
Cure Serious Wounds – (3rd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/15)(2/day)
Ethereal Jaunt – (7th)(Janni, Genie)(7th/x)(1/day) – 1 hour duration
Gust of Wind – (2nd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/14)(at will)
Invisibility* – (2nd)(Janni, Genie)(12/x)(3/day)
Lightning Bolt – (3rd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/15)(2/day)
Mirror Image – (2nd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/x)(at will)
Speak with animals – (1st)(Janni, Genie)(12/x)(3/day)
Wind Wall – (3rd)(Bralani, Eladrin)(6/x)(at will)
Combat: Bone devils are great – not just for combat specs, but also for all the SLA’s that can be used in combat. They also have great saves. If pure HP are what you are after – the elementals have it.
Outside Combat, and non melee combat abilities: I can’t even touch on all the SLA’s available at this level. The Avoral has a million alone. Bone devils are also very good (wall of ice at will – nice!). Babau demons dispel magic at will.
Mixed with the malconvoker: The Bone Devil is your best all round combatant, they are also good battlefield controllers (2 walls of ice/round is very good). Babau demons get SA if used to flank. They also get dispel magic at will. That's two dispel checks per round against enemy spells. (thanks to Ancillary for pointing out that they can't be used to counterspell though. Oops.)
Treantmonk’s favourite: Bone Devils. For a summon monster VII these are a huge bargain. They outshine everything else at this level.
Chicken? Among the great abilities of Bone Devils are a high sense motive score – if this is a concern – A pair of Fiendish Girallon’s will get 10 attacks on your enemy – then Rend him. (the lower to hit score bothers me a bit though). The other option is to simply summon the bone devil without Deceptive Summoning – you might want to remove your Ring of Mighty Summons to keep a decent duration. They will still rock.
They wasted our time with: The Fiendish Megaraptor. For the same reason the Raptor sucks, so does its big brother. Tigers are just better – much better.
Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/summon)
*Works on “self only”
Aid – (2nd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Blur* - (2nd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Command – (1st)(Avoral)(8/14)(at will)
Create Food and Water – (3rd)(Djinn)(20/x)(at will)
Create Water – (0)(Djinn)(20/x)(at will) – creates wine instead of water
Darkness – (2nd)(Babau)(7/x)(at will)
Detect magic – (0)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Dimension Door – (4th)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Dimensional Anchor – (4th)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will)
Dispel Magic – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Dispel Magic – (3rd)(Babau)(7/x)(at will)
Fly – (3rd)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will)
Gaseous form* – (3rd)(Djinn)(20/x)(1/day) – duration 1 hour
Gust of wind – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/15)(at will)
Hold Person – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/16)(at will)
Invisibility* - (2nd)(Djinn)(20/x)(at will)
Invisibility* - (2nd)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will)
Light – (0)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Lightning bolt – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/16)(3/day)
Magic Circle Against Evil – (3rd)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Magic Missile – (1st)(Avoral)(8/x)(at will)
Major Creation – (5th)(Djinn)(20/x)(1/day) – vegetable matter is permanent
Major Image – (3rd)(Bone Devil)(12/15)(at will)
Persistent Image – (5th)(Djinn)(20/17)(1/day)
See Invisibility – (2nd)(Avoral)(8x)(at will)
See Invisibility – (2nd)(Babau)(7x)(at will)
True Seeing* - (6th)(Avoral)(14/x)(at will) – 1 full round casting time
Wall of Ice – (4th)(Bone Devil)(12/x)(at will)
Wind Walk – (6th)(Djinn)(20/x)(1/day)
Tidbits: More combat options here. Again, the SLA’s are too numerous to mention.
Combat: Well, I have to mention that you can now summon a colossal creature (Centipede), you need lots of room for this guy – but his HP are great, as is his grapple score. Fiendish Tyrannosaurus offers great offense/defense. A gargantuan spider can web any size creature. Vrocks are excellent combatants, and can fly.
Outside Combat or non-melee combat abilities: Can’t even get into all the SLA’s, however check out the Blue Slaad – some very nice ones there.
Mixed with the malconvoker: Very interesting option if you are willing to cast 2x. That gives you 4 vrocks – one to attack your enemies, and three to do a dance of Ruin – thats 20d6 damage – that is not energy damage (no resistances). Vrocks also get stunning screech, spores, 3 attacks – lots of options.
Treantmonk’s favourite: The Vrock. Good SLA’s, good combat stats. It is a Flyer. (honourable mention to the Fiendish T-Rex though)
Chicken? If the Vrock’s Sense Motive frightens you – The Fiendish T-Rex has lots to love too.
They wasted our time with: Hellcat. Sorry – invisibility is not worth 120 HP and +7 to hit. (the difference between the hellcat and the Fiendish dire tiger)
Spell Name – (spell level)(Creature who has it as an SLA)(CL/DC)(# times/summon)
*Works on “self only”
Chaos Hammer – (4th)(Blue Slaad)(8/14)(1/day)
Charm Person – (1st)(Lillend)(10/15)(1/day)
Dancing Lights – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Darkness – (2nd)(Lillend)(10/x)(3/day)
Daze – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Detect Magic – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Hallucinatory Terrain – (4th)(Lillend)(10/18)(3/day)
Hold Person – (3rd)(Blue Slaad)(8/13)(at will)
Knock – (2nd)(Lillend)(10/x)(3/day)
Light – (0)(Lillend)(10/x)(3/day)
Lullaby – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Mage hand – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Mirror Image – (2nd)(Vrock)(12/x)(at will)
Read Magic – (0)(Lillend)(6/x)(up to 3 times/day)
Charm Person– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day)
Cure Light Wounds– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day)
Heroism – (3rd)(Vrock)(12/x)(1/day)
Identify– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day)
Sleep– (1st)(Lillend)(6/15)(up to 4 times/day)
Hold Person– (2nd)(Lillend)(6/16)(up to 3 times/day)
Invisibility– (2nd)(Lillend)(6/16)(up to 3 times/day)
Passwall – (5th)(Blue Slaad)(8/x)(at will)
Sound Burst – (2nd)(Lillend)(6/16)(up to 3 times/day)
Speak with Animals – (1st)(Lillend)(10/x)(1/day)
Speak with plants – (3rd)(Lillend)(10/x)(1/day)
Telekinisis – (5th)(Blue Slaad)(8/15)(at will)
Telekinisis – (5th)(Vrock)(12/16)(at will)
Combat: Because of malconvoker you want to stick with evil. However, elementals would otherwise be your best bet. For evil – if you have room, colossal spiders are good, as are gargantuan scorpions. Bebiliths get rend armor which is always good. Hezrou’s get stench and improved grab.
Outside Combat or non-melee combat abilities: Leonal’s wall of force at will is worth individual mention.
Mixed with the malconvoker: Bebiliths become your best combat choices unless you have lots of room (in which case, go with your bugs). HP aren’t as great as they might be, but mixed with Augment, Infernal Fury, and a ring of mighty summons – the HP will be multiple hundreds anyways. (Assuming Caster level 20, Bebilith has 260 HP). If space is an issue – the Barbed devil is a decent combatant for a medium creature (HP will be around 220), and has a nice fear effect (will save 20)
Deserving special mention: If you have the room – a Colossal Spider summoned with infernal fury (so easy at this level), a ring of mighty summons, and at least 4 levels of Master Specialist by a 20th level caster (your caster level for summons may be higher than this at 18th level) will have 468 HP. You can summon 2 with one spell – that’s almost 1000 HP of creature summoned with one spell. This puts summon elemental monolith to shame.
Treantmonk’s favourite: Fiendish Colossal Monstrous Spider – The spider starts and ends the list. They tend to be a weak choice inbetween – but look at it this level – that’s tough. Colossal size can be a problem though. Still, when you get the opportunity to summon a pair of these – it will be worth the wait.
They wasted our time with: Couatl, Green Slaad, Night Hag. What are any of these doing in SM IX? Night hag should be SM VII!
Spell Name (Spell level)(Creature that uses spell)(Caster level/DC)(times/day)
*Means self only
Blasphemy-(7th)(Hezrou)(13/21)(3/day)
Chaos Hammer –(4th)(Green Slaad)(9/15)(at will)
Chaos Hammer-(4th)(Hezrou)(13/18)(at will)
Charm Monster– (4th)(Couatl)(9/17)(up to 4 times/day)
Cure Critical Wounds-(4th)(Leonal)(10/16)(3/day)
Cure Minor Wounds– (0)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 6 times/day)
Cure Moderate Wounds– (2)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Daze– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day)
Deeper Darkness–(3rd)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(3/day)
Detect Chaos – (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Detect Chaos – (1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Detect Evil– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Detect Evil-(1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Detect Good– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Detect Good-(1st)(night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Detect Law– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Detect Law-(1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Detect magic–(0)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(at will)
Detect Magic-(0)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Detect Thoughts– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/15)(at will)
Detect Thoughts-(2nd)(Leonal)(10/15)(at will)
Detect Thoughts–(2nd)(Green Slaad)(9/13)(at will)
Dispel Law–(5th)(Green Slaad)(9/16)(3/day)
Disrupt Undead– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day)
Eagle’s Spendor– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Endure Elements– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Ethereal Jaunt– (7th)(Couatl)(16/x)(at will)
Etherealness-(9th)(Night hag)(16/x)(at will)
Fear–(4th)(Green Slaad)(9/15)(at will)
Fireball-(3rd)(Leonal)(10/15)(at will)
Fireball–(3rd)(Green Slaad)(9/14)(3/day)
Freedom of movement– (4th)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 4 times/day)
Gaseous Form– (3rd)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Gaseous Form-(3rd)(Hezrou)(13/x)(3/day)
Globe of Invulnerability, lesser*-(4th)(Leonal)(12/x)(always on)
Heal-(6th)(Leonal)(10/18)(1/day)
Hold Monster-(5th)(Leonal)(10/17)(at will)
Hold Person-(3rd)(Barbed Devil)(12/16)(at will)
Invisibility– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Light– (0)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 6 times/day)
Mage Armor– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Magic Circle Against Evil– (3rd)(Couatl)(9/16)(up to 7 times/day)
Magic Circle Against Evil*-(3rd)(Leonal)(12/x)(always on) – includes +4 to saves and AC
Magic Missile-(1st)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Major Image-(2nd)(Barbed Devil)(12/17)(at will)
Neutralize Poison-(4th)(Leonal)(10/x)(3/day)
Obscuring Mist– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Order’s Wrath-(4th)(Barbed Devil)(12/18)(1/day)
Polymorph*– (4th)(Couatl)(9/x)(at will)
Polymorph-(4th)(Leonal)(10/x)(at will)
Polymorph*-(4th)(Night hag)(8/x)(at will)
Protection from Chaos– (1st)(Couatl)(9/14)(up to 7 times/day)
Protection from Law–(1st)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(at will)
Ray of Enfeeblement-(2nd)(Night hag)(8/12)(at will)
Ray of Frost– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day)
Read Magic– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day)
Remove Disease-(3rd)(Leonal)(10/x)(3/day)
Resistance– (0)(Couatl)(9/13)(up to 6 times/day)
Scorching Ray– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/15)(up to 7 times/day)
Scorching Ray– (2nd)(Barbed Devil)(12/x)(at will) – 2 rays only
See Invisibility–(2nd)(Green Slaad)(9/x)(at will)
Shatter–(2nd)(Green Slaad)(9/13)(at will)
Silence– (2nd)(Couatl)(9/15)(up to 7 times/day)
Sleep-(1st)(Night hag)(8/12)(at will)
True Strike– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
Unholy Blight-(4th)(Barbed Devil)(12/18)(1/day)
Unholy Blight-(4th)(Hezrou Demon)(13/18)(at will)
Wall of force-(5th)(Leonal)(10/x)(at will)
Wind Wall– (1st)(Couatl)(9/x)(up to 7 times/day)
2: Bee/Centipede/Squid/Shark: 8
3: Fiendish Centipede: 11
4: Shark: 12 (land based: Wolf/Viper: 11)
5: Bearded Devil: 17
6: Xill: 21
7: Avoral: 25
8: Fiendish Colossal Centipede: 25
9: Leonal (Guardinal): 28 (Best evil – Spider: 25)
Fog/Mist spells: These all are great when combined with Spiders, Scorpions and Dire Bats. Your opponents can't see - but they can.
Call Zelekut, Call Marut, Call Kolyarut: See my MYTHS section. These are inferior spells - honest! Your summoned monsters are much tougher at the same level - your planar bindings last much longer - and neither require XP.
Level 1:
Grease: Use your Summoned Grappler to grapple the enemy - then cast a grease underneath them to watch the pair grappling on the ground. This makes it twice as hard as the BBEG that has a good grapple score to dispatch your creature as the grapple gets re-engaged and re-engaged again.
Mage Armor: In a wand this is great (since duration of 1/hr is plenty). Your summoned creatures have Dex and Nat armor, but no actual armor. Mage armor is perfectly stackable with any of them. Not bad at all.
Obscuring Mist: Any of the mist/fog spells work great when combined with creatures that use Blindsense/Tremorsense. That includes all the Fiendish Scorpions, Spiders and Dire Bats. Now they can see your opponent, but your opponent can't see them (Or you)
Benign Transposition: This spell is so incredibly useful for a summoner it isn't funny. Your pal is in the jaws of the Purple Worm - ready to be swallowed whole? Switch him with your perfectly willing first level summoned creature. Unfortunately for the Purple Worm - that creature will be like chinese food - he'll be hungry again a few rounds later. Any time you want to get an ally out of harms way - this spell mixed with a summoned monster is HUGE. Keep in mind that you can switch yourself with a summoned creature with this spell too.
Level 2:
Fog Cloud: See obscuring mist
Glitterdust: Throw this on the combat in which your Spider, Scorpion or Dire Bat is involved. Everyone gets blinded - of course your summoned creatures have other ways of sensing your opponents.
Web: To be used when your opponents decide they would like to leave the vicinity of your summoned creatures. (*Nice* - my DM has houseruled that spiders can traverse web spells. That makes this spell extra tasty. Ask your DM today)
Baleful Transposition: So who actually wants to switch places with the enemy caster and be completely surrounded by his bodyguard. Your summoned creature - that's who.
Level 3:
Stinking Cloud: Don't bother. Use SMIII to summon a Dretch and have it cast this for you. Then have the Dretch cast scare, then have the Dretch enter melee. See???
Mage Armor, Mass: The hugeness of this spell after level 5 Malconvoker should be self-evident. Very good!
Level 4:
Evard's black tenticles: For non-malconvokers only. You can summon creatures with just as good grapple scores. By level 10 you can summon multiple creatures with much higher grapple scores and improved grab - that do more damage, take hits etc. Isn't being a Malconvoker fun?
Bloodstar: This makes me so happy! *wipes tear from eye*. Imagine this - a bloodstar over an enemy - then have your 2 Fiendish Tigers charge. One claw - loose a con point, 2 claw - loose a con point, 1 bite - loose a con point, 1 rake - loose a con point, 2 rake - loose a con point. That's the first tiger...This might be a better enhancement for multiple attack critters than polymorph!
Translocation Trick: Your opponent Monk rushes to grapple the caster - wow this caster is a great grappler - and he squeezes tight too! It's almost like he's a huge constrictor snake or something...
Level 6:
Acid Fog: This combines very nicely with any acid resistant creatures (Devils and Demons for sure). Have them grapple your foe - then hit them with this. Even non acid-resistant summons can work this way. So what if your summoned creature dies along with the opponent?
Level 7-9: Don't be wasting these valuable spells on creature enhancement.
Generalizations:
Stat buffers: keep in mind Augment Summoning already effectively gives your creatures Bull Strength and Bear's endurance. It is non-stacking.
Level 1:
Level 2:
Level 3:
Level 4:
Level 5:
Level 6:
Level 7:
Brilliant Aura - Take all your summoned creatures (as well as the grateful party members) and turn all their weapons to Brilliant Energy weapons. Very good against heavily armored targets. Not so much vs Golems...
Levels 8-9: Not for buffing!
Level 1:
Endure Elements: Your creatures have some resistances - if you need more -then consider this. Note at high levels 5 hp is nothing - not worth it.
Level 2:
Chain of eyes: See through the eyes of your summoned creature. Very useful if using creature for scouting purposes - all with very low level. The ability to transfer the effect can come in handy too.
Level 3:
Level 4:
Level 5:
Level 6:
Level 7-9: Not for buffing
You will need a Magic Circle Against X. Magic Circle against evil can be used in binding any non-good creature, Magic Circle against good can be used to bind any non-evil creature - so if you have both you have covered all your basis. (Or against Law and Chaos if you prefer.)
Use your Spellcraft to fortify the circle.
Pick an extradimensional creature with 6 HD or less (preferably one with a lower CHA score)
Offer them a deal, as in "Serve me unquestioningly for the next 8 days".
You then have a CHA contest with the creature. The DM will give you a positive modifier if you sweeten the deal.
Enchantment:2nd: Touch of idiocy (PHB): 1d6 loss to CHA
2nd: Rebuke (SC): Shaken subject (-2 Ability checks)
2rd: Mechanus Mind (SC): Gives a bunch of bonuses, but -2 to CHA checks
3rd: Suggestion (PHB): Possibly just suggest the creature agree to your terms
4th: Charm Monster (PHB): Make the creature want to be your ally
4th: Crushing Despair (PHB): -2 to ability checks
4th: Geas, Lesser (PHB): 1 day/level up to 7HD - force them to accept your terms
Transmutation:
2nd: Eagles Splendor (PHB – Abj): +4 Cha (enhancement)
Necromancy:
1st: Cause Fear: (As Rebuke)
2nd: Scare: (as cause fear or Rebuke)
2nd: Ray of Sickness: Cause sickened effect (-2 to ability checks)
4th: Bestow Curse: Use 2x. Lower CHA by 6, then lower ability checks by 4
4th: Enervation: Negative levels (-1 to ability checks per level lost)
Of course you should get the other casters in the party to help you if possible. I have a Beguiler in mine and we have an agreement for Lesser Bindings. ;)
Bearded Devil: Lawful Evil. CHA 10. Good combatant. Can be your bodyguard.
Bralani (Eladrin): Chaotic Good. CHA 14. These guys are great - but your alignment could be in danger if you start enslaving good outsiders.
Elemental, Medium: Neutral. Cha 11. Not particularly tough - but as scouts they can be fairly useful.
Formian Taskmaster: Lawful Neutral. CHA 19. The CHA is a little high - but they get Dominate Monster as a (Su) ability. Wow!
Janni, Genie: Neutral. Cha 13. A decent choice. Invisibility (self), Move silently, Listen and spot makes them a decent scout. They are OK in combat as well.
Succubus (Demon): Chaotic Evil. CHA 26. The CHA is insane - but if you complete the spells I suggested above - it is do-able. The SLA's are great - including Charm Monster at will.
Hell Hound: Lawful Evil. CHA 6. Easy CHA test. Not the toughest choice - but easier to control.
Howler: Chaotic Evil. CHA 8. Easy CHA test - and pretty tough too. Just a tank for you.
Nightmare: Neutral Evil. CHA 12. Now you ride in style.
Shadow Mastiff: Neutral Evil. CHA 13. Not bad, you can't even SM these things yet.
Xill: Lawful Evil. CHA 11. As the Shadow Mastiff.
You are at least 8th level - so pony up the 4,500 and get a circlet of persuasion.
Cast Magic Circle against evil. Use Spellcraft to fortify it.
Cast Lesser Planar Binding - call the Succubus.
Cast a Geas on her first thing. "Drink a glass of water from the pitcher over there." Point to a pitcher outside the circle. Wait 4 days.
:evillaugh Cast Eagle's splendor before you return.
Now hit her with Bestow Curse. Her saves are currently at -8 (total will save -1). As long as you peirce SR you are golden (if not - cast again!). Suddenly her saves/checks are at -12
Now hit her with Cause Fear. Now she's frightened (or shaken if by some miracle she saves). Her ability checks are now at -14
Time to propose a deal. No reason to make it lovely. Ask her to serve you for the remainder of the spell - to follow all your commands, in both word and intent, to never take action that could harm you, and to give you her true name. - and she will be released at the end of the spell. This is a crappy deal for her - so you get no bonus to negotiation.
Her negotiate modifier: -6
Your negotiate modifier: +5
You should win.
If there's any doubt - go ahead and pony up 3000 gp for a Moment of Prescience scroll. It's a one shot deal - but the additional +16 to your roll makes this a sure thing.
Once she agrees -drop the cause fear, the curse, and the circle (so she can have her drink of water). She's back to normal.
Now you give her the warning. "I know your true name now - if you ever screw me over - during the duration of the spell, or afterwards - I'll use it to summon you again. I'll also cast again and summon an IMP. I'll give the imp this deal - "do whatever you want to this succubus for the duration of the spell - and I expect nothing in return.", you'll be defensless in one of those circles you were just in, but I'll let him out of his, I expect the Imp will take the deal - I get the impression they have LOADS of built up hostility."
A) Scare it straight. Demons/Devils have no immunity to fear. If you have it's true name you can call it again and do something horrible to it. The threat of such an act (if they believe you) may deter them from attempting revenge. You do hold the superior hand in this game.
B) Finish the job. Nothing says the Demon/Devil will survive the entire Planar Binding. Since its a called creature, not a summoned one, if you kill it, it's gone for good.
(If you've taken the 6th level of Malconvoker - you can effectively drop the CHA of evil Planar Bindings by 10.)
Bebilith (Chaotic Evil) - Normally a SM IX summons. CHA is only 13. Great tank.
Efreeti (Lawful Evil) - Cha 15. Pretty good combatant. Iconically, the Efreeti are the masters of misinterpretation of commands - so be careful.
Glabrezu (Chaotic Evil) - Crazy tough. CHA is 20 though. Has permanent True Seeing too which is nice. How about SMITE?
Bone Devil (Lawful Evil) - useful summons. CHA only 14. Wall of Ice and Dimensional anchor at will
Nessian Warhound (Lawful Evil) - One tough puppy. CHA is 6 - so super easy summon.
Night Hag (Chaotic Evil) - CHA 12, pretty easy summon with some decent SLA's for your level.
Rakshasa (Lawful Evil) - CHA 17. I love that these guys have haste. You summon - Rakshasa Hastes your summons.
Grey Slaad (Chaotic Neutral) - CHA 14. This is a great Binding. Invisibility and fly as SLA's at will. Have him Invisible and Fly you and your party and your summons. Watch out for the flying invisible colossal fiendish centipede!!!
Formain Myrmarch (Lawful Neutral) - CHA 17. Your party's new diviner. Clairaudience/Clairvoyance, detect thoughts, detect chaos all at will. Oh yeah - charm monster and magic circle against chaos at will too.
Ice Devil (Lawful Evil) - CHA 20, Cone of cold, Ice storm Wall of Ice - all at will
Planetar (good): You're alignment is in trouble - but these are crazy good. I've avoided good creatures up to now, but the temptation might be too much. Hey, they aren't that great- they only have 2 9th level spells/day. In addition to the rest of the Cleric 17th level spells, and loads of SLA's.
Lets face it - if you're like me you are thinking PIT FIEND. If you can bind 20 HD creatures you are thinking BALOR. There aren't alot of choices at this level (at least in the MM), but those two are the big kahunas.
Abyssal Greater Basalisk: CHA 15 - CR 12, Best feature: DC 21 petrification
Death Slaad: CHA 18 - CR 13, Best Feature: Implosion 1/day.
High - CHA bindings:
Marilith: CHA 24 - CR 17, best feature: 10 attacks on Full Attack
Horned Devil: CHA 22 - CR 16, best feature: attack causes DC 27 stun effect
Pit Fiend: CHA 26 - CR 20, the best evil Planar Binding for Malconvokers that broke at lvl 6. Everything is good about these guys.
Formain Queen: CHA 21 - CR 17. Not evil (but binding her is probably not all that evil since she isn't good either). She doesn't move - but with a large size she could be moved. She casts up to 8th level sorcerer spells.
So you are rolling with:
+16 MoP
+3 Circlet of Persuasion
+3 Charisma Enhancement bonuses
+1 Charisma Insight bonus (approx by this level)
Total: +23 - with a base CHA of 10 and without getting to cheesy.
The Balor:
+8 Base Cha
So if you roll a 5 or higher - the Balor doesn't even get to roll. If you don't, the Balor better roll above 15 or there's no point even doing the math.
Thank you vecnagash for the hint ;)
Blue: High Priority
Green: Nice to have - but you can live without
Rod of Extend, Lesser: This is the first item I suggest you buy. It is fairly cheap (3000 gp) and will be an invaluable tool right up to level 7. After that - it will still come in handy to extend the life of your Monstrous Spider and Dire Bat scouts.
Circlet of Persuasion: Once you become a Malconvoker, this should be the next item on you list. Not too expensive (4500 gp), and it gives a +3 competance bonus on all CHA checks. That helps both your Bluff and Planar Bindings.
Admiral's Bicorn: This is a magic item for later on as it costs a stiff 51,000 gp. However, it will give a nice unnamed bonus to CHA checks as well as a morale bonus to attacks etc. of allies (including your summoned creatures)
Sandals of the vagabond: Gives a +2 initiative and immunity to exhaustion. It's the +2 initiative that is the biggest draw for me. Depends on what niche your Malconvoker is filling.
Ring of Mighty Summons: This item is a no-brainer. 14,000 gp isn't bad for a ring, and your Deceptive Summoning will cancel out the 1/2 duration penalty. My suggestion is to get it by level 10.
Rod of Silent Spell: Around the mid levels are your best chance to get hit with a Silence Spell. Therefore the Rod of Silent Spell is the right Metamagic Rod for those levels. Still not too expensive - and very handy to have.
Magic Staves: Any staff with Summon Monster rocks in your hands. It can also free up some much appriciated spell slots for other spells: Healing/Conjuration depending on what kind of spellcaster you are.
Choker of Eloquence, Greater: +10 competance bonus to Bluff (and some other stuff - who cares?). This doesn't stack with your circlet of Persuasion, but the extra +7 to bluff makes it a worthy aquisition.
Rod of Maximize, Greater: At the high levels, the metamagic rod you want is this one. Getting 4 ice devils with a Summon Monster VIII is a great deal.
Headband of Intellect: Obviously a good investment. Get more spells, better DC's (for those Planar Binding Enchantment/Necromancy enhancers), and more skill points (can't have too many knowledges). If you use combining rules - combine it with the Circlet of Persuasion. Otherwise - maybe eyeglasses of intellect?
Cloak of Charisma: Also a good investment. Boost your Bluff and Planar Binding checks, and completely stackable with the Circlet of Persuasion.
Panic Button: I recommend picking a couple of these up (Dimension Door). You gave up immediate magic so you could get Rapid Spell. It was a worthy trade, but leaves a hole - and this is your patch.
Ring of Invisibility: Invisibility + Summoning is a great combination. I think it's pretty self-evident.
Rod of Rapid Spell, any: For a Cleric build - this could be alot easier than finding various ways to be able to use the feat for free. Recently another thread pointed out that not all Arcane casters get to use the UA variants - so for them this is an option too.
Golden Desert Honey (CM): For 300 gp per dose, it allows any summoning spell that normally requires a full round action to be cast as if Rapid Spell were placed upon it. For long term use, this is too cost restrictive - but for emergencies - carrying 2-3 doses of this could be a very cheap lifesaver.
Ehlonna's Brooch/Natures children:Worthy of special mention. I can't imagine my Malconvoker worshipping Elhonna/Nature - but if you choose for yours to - you will get +1 HP/HD on summons, and +1 CL. They cost you next to nothing, and it's all completely legal - but the cheese reeks from where I'm standing.
Conjurer (UA variants: Rapid summon, Enhanced Summon) 3/Master Specialist 10/Malconvoker 6/Paragnostic Apostle 1
(Gets 3 quickened SM IX per day - all summons get Fast Healing 5)
Conjurer (UA variants: Rapid summon, Enhanced Summon) 10/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialist 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1
(Augment Summoning increases to +6/+6 plus Fast Healing 5)
Conjurer (UA variants as above) 3/Master specialist 4/Malconvoker 6/Paragnostic Apostle 3/Fatespinner 4
(This will probably end up being my current character's final build. A couple extra levels of Paragnostic Apostle to get some of the other stuff - Fatespinner to insure against failed Bluff/sense motive tests or Opposed CHA tests)
Conjurer (UA variants as above) 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Nar Demonbinder 1/Ultimate Magus 9
(Lots of 4th and 5th level spells if you like that. Still gets 9th level casting ability. The final spellcasting level for your Nar Demonbinder spells is sick.)
Sorcerer 6/Malconvoker 9/Thaumaturgist 5
(All summons are extended for free)
Conjurer (UA variants) 1/Cleric 5/Malconvoker 9/Contemplative 5
(Takes advantage of the Rapid Summoning variant for a Cleric build. This makes the cleric build more potent on SM spells. However - two spellcasting levels are lost altogether.)
Conjurer (UA variants) 1/Sorcerer 6/Malconvoker 5/Fatespinner 4/Paragnostic apostle 3
(Takes advantage of the Rapid Summoning variant for a Sorcerer build. Now you get Rapid Summoning with spontaneous casting. However - two spellcasting levels are lost - and this is on the Sorcerer "one level behind" chart)
Archivist 11/Malconvoker 9
A simple archavist build that works nicely.
Archivist 9/Malconvoker 9/Sacred Exorcist 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1
Highlights are turn undead and fast healing for summoned creatures - worked into the Archavist build.
Archivist 9/Malconvoker 9/Sacred Exorcist 1/Contemplative 1
Another Archavist build. This one uses Contemplative to get access to the Summoning domain.
Archivist 7/Malconvoker 9/Uncanny Trickster 3/Sacred Exorcist 1
This is a build based more on versatility. It will lose 2 spellcasting levels, but will have a better host of skills/tricks.
(A special thanks to stmunks for his insight into ways to use the Archavist as an effective base class entry)
Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialst 3-10/Wyrm Wizard 2:
(Uses Wyrm Wizard to pick up Arcane Fusion, Greater. If your DM rules that you can add Metamagic for free to Arcane Fusioned spells - you can get a REAL legion of Bone Devils at level 20. Click HERE to see Edzero's build - please check with your DM before making this build though - for the Arcane Fusion interpretation is necessary for the build to work.)
A) Specific Creatures: This is huge - think about SM IV for example. The difference of the Howler from the Dire Wolf is small. So which to summon? Easy - roll stats for both and pick the one you got lucky with.
Keep in mind that rolling stats for every creature you summon would be fantastically time consuming.
Also - the advantage of resummoning the same creature is obvious - Use your summon elemental reserve feat to summon an earth elemental. Send him through the wall - listen for carnage ensuing. The next day, you re-summon the earth elemental:
Malconvoker: "What killed you on the other side of that wall?"
Earth Elemental: "This time it was a Werebear. P.S.: I hate you."
It is so amusing to think that poor celestial monkey I keep summoning to be my "trapmonkey" is always the same monkey.
B) Replacing Creatures: Wow - this is a no-brainer if your DM allows it. If you have a sticky DM - you can just take the best Celestial Creatures, and switch them for Fiendish Creatures -thus applying Fiendish Legion, Infernal Fury, and Deceptive Summons.
C) Improving Creatures: There may be alignment problems equipping a bunch of evil creatures to the hilt - but giving your Bearded Devil an adamantium Glaive is an interesting idea.
- The Arcane Build using focused specialist can cast almost twice as many summon spells
- Monsters summoned by Summon Monster have a minimum INT of 3 (All animals and vermin recieve the Cestial or Fiendish templates which change them to Magical Beasts, and give them a minimum Int of 3 - debate exists on whether the vermin templated should still have the "mindless" advantages. By RAW they seem to - but by all common sense they don't.) - meaning no tricks - no "pushing", instructing them is a free action. They all understand language.
- Malconvokers Summon 2 of their best creature. Druids summon 1
- Arcane Conjurer builds summon as a standard action, Druids summon as a full round action.
The number you saw beside "CR" in the MM does not nearly define the creature(s) you just summoned.
Think of it like playing a fighter. If your combat style is always approach enemy - roll die - roll damage, you will suck. In order to make the fighter work, you must use your skills and feats to improve your combat ability and options. You must make sure that the increases to hit and to damage outpace your standard bonuses for levelling.
It is the same with the Summoner. If you are not focusing on Summon Monster - you will suck at it. If you focus at it - you can shine
OK Summon Monster IX (Via malconvoker of course) - Colossal Fiendish Monstrous Spider: HP 448, to hit +28, Damage 4d6+20 plus poison.
Think they're close? You're wrong - you forgot Fiendish Legion. The Malconvoker gets 2 of the spiders with one summon monster IX. Also he doesn't have to concentrate on them.
It's worse than that even. Malconvokers are anything but specialized in Elemental Summoning - but an Elder Elemental summoned by a Malconvoker with SM IX will have comparable stats to the Monolith.
Call inevitable. Consider the first available - Call Zelekhut. This is a 5th level spell that summons 1-74 HP creature. No Augment summoning (it's a calling spell), no Ring of Mighty Summons, No Infernal Fury.
Or - you could summon 2 creatures with an equivalent level spell that each have 100+ hp, better BAB, Better Damage, Better Grapple, etc etc etc. However, you don't get to spend the 100 xp - sorry.
If Duration is important to you - a Planar Binding, Lesser is the same level. It also won't cost you any XP, and has a duration of 1 day/level. Call Zelekhut? One hour.
The others are no better compared to equivalent level spells cast by a Malconvoker.
Here's the creatures I've sent to my DM for approval.
1 - Jermlaine (15 AC, 1 HP, +5 dim dart (1d3-4), +9 Listen, +9 Spot) (MM II)
I think this fills in nicely for the scout role, being intelligent, twice the spot and listen of other creatures of the level, and having good hide and move silently. It allows SM I to be your "scouting" SM much longer.
2 - Fiendish Swindlespitter Dinosaur (18 AC, 11 HP, +7 beak (1d4-1), 15' cone poison blindness 2d4 min DC 12) (MM III)
Basically, this guy's got two strengths. Great AC for the level, and an amazing breath weapon every d4 rounds. His HP and damage are lackluster though. There's no real utility at SM II, and this guy can double duty as the melee.
3 - Either Demon, Nashrou or Wrackspawn (both MM IV)
I like both of these flavor-wise, hence requesting them. But both seems to have particularly strong flaws. The Demon is destroyed when crit, and that's a hefty blow for a DR 5/ and 42 HP creature before you apply your stat increases. The Wrackspawn is stuck with a 20', 14 AC, and no ranged combat.
I'll update the thread as I get playtest experience with it.
Here were other creatures I was looking at:
Kenku also make a solid SM I choice. They get +3 aid another, and +4 when flanking (allowing them to hit for much longer).
Swindlespitter Dinosaur seems like a great SM II with the fiendish template. +7 beak (1d4-1), 11 HP, 18 AC, but gets a 15' cone poison spray, blinding for 2d4 minutes on a failed save, Fort DC 12.
Fleshraker technically fits for SM II, but everyone knows how silly that dinosaur is.
Lurking Stranglers aren't bad, with Sleep, Cause Fear, and an Int 4 flying scout in one package. Probably SM III unfortunately.
Runehound would probably be SM IV, but still worth it.
These are all MM III. Note, I'm only look at lower level stuff, as I'm going to be lower level for awhile.
Skiurid (MM IV) - AC 15, +6 bite (1d3-4), and a meh scout, but Chill Darkness 3/day. As Darkness spell, but DC 13 fort save or 1d6 dmg and 1 pt STR dmg. Only CR 1/2 and 1/2 HD, so decent case for SM I to boot.
Nashrou (MM IV) - AC 15 and crit vunerability, but +5 gore (1d8+2) x2 and +2 claw (1d6+1) x2. On top of that, DR 5, 42 hp, +7 Listen/spot and scent, 10' reach, +10 grapple. Crit vulnerability really makes him fragile though. SM III I guess. Still...
Sailsnake (MM IV) - Gives an okay flier/scout, but solid combatant with a weaker version of the dino's venom spray. However, important to note, is a passed save on venom spray still results in 1-2 rounds of blindness. SM III though, CR 2 flier.
Wrackspawn (MM IV) makes a cool melee combatant, with good damage +8 shortspear (1d6+4+pain) and +3 double claw (2d4+2). Pain does an extra 2d6 dmg and sickened for 1 round on a failed DC 18 fort save. Has good immunities (gaze attacks, illusions, visual effects), blindsight 120' and 45 HP. Sits on a crappy 14 AC though, and 20' move speed. SM III, I'd think.
I do apologize for interrupting the productive ruminations of this thread. But I'm starting a probably lvl 5 capaign in the savage tide setting. I want to play a conjurer going into master specialist going into malconvoker, but I'm a bit worried about low level survivability (probably going to give up evocation and necromancy).
Anybody have any helpful hints?
UA Conjurer 3/ Master specialist 10/ Malconvoker 9 (I think it goes into epic, the adventure path)
Feats:
SF Conjuration
GSF Conjuration
Augment summoning
Elemental Summoning
Haven't shortlisted the rest of the feats.
Many thanks,
prototype00
Hi all,
I do apologize for interrupting the productive ruminations of this thread. But I'm starting a probably lvl 5 capaign in the savage tide setting. I want to play a conjurer going into master specialist going into malconvoker, but I'm a bit worried about low level survivability (probably going to give up evocation and necromancy).
Anybody have any helpful hints?
UA Conjurer 3/ Master specialist 10/ Malconvoker 9 (I think it goes into epic, the adventure path)
Feats:
SF Conjuration
GSF Conjuration
Augment summoning
Elemental Summoning
Haven't shortlisted the rest of the feats.
Many thanks,
prototype00
This is the purpose of the thread - no apologies necessary.
Question: Under feat selection - are you referring to Rashemi elemental summoning?
My current character is level 8 (Conjurer 3/MS 2/Malconvoker 3) and survivability hasn't been too much of a problem.
Here's the best hints I can give:
1) Don't worry about summoning until level 3 or so. Consider yourself a conjurer first until then. Once you hit level 3, the wolf is pretty good - and your duration is decent.
2) Pick up the Cloudy Conjuration feat (I would substitute it for GSF - you don't want GSF anyways.). Each round you cast conjuration - put the cloud in front of your character. This will block line of sight to your character, provide a sickening effect to any who venture within (no save) and will lower just in time for you to cast again next round.
At levels 3+ put a summoned creature in front of you (inside the cloud) - the enemy will not see it until they enter the cloud. This will provide you extra protection.
3) Pick up grease at level 1 (you probably knew that already)
4) The one summon to consider at level 1: Fiendish Monstrous Spider - have it web your opponent (which will slow movement and prevent charging)
5) Mage armor (naturally)
6) Take focused specialist: I would not recommend this for any conjurer UNLESS it is a summoning specialist, or only playing very low levels. Since the very low levels are the ONLY levels you won't be a summoning specialist - this becomes win-win. Maybe add either illusion or enchantment to forbidden schools.
I know conventional wisdom is to never take this class feature - but if you plan out your spell memorization ahead - you will find that you ALWAYS want at least 3 conjuration spells - this is worth it - trust me.
7) Take Rapid Summoning and Enhanced Summoning from UA (I'm assuming you already have). Focus on single attack/pounce creatures with Summon Monster spells.
8) Once you get to level 3, use the wolf to trip your potential melee opponents - level 5, switch to grapple with a Fiendish ape. Level 8, switch back to trip with Dire Wolf.
9) Keep your maximum summoning distance from melee at all times.
However, that's changed and here's my build for the Malconvoker.
Variants from UA: Rapid Summoning, Enhanced Summoning
Variants from CM: Focused Specialist (Necromancy, Enchantment, Evocation)
Flaws for: Spell Focus: X, Cloudy Conjuration [CM]
1. Conjurer 1 (Augment Summoning) (Spell Focus: Conjuration) (Beckon the Frozen) [Fb]
2. Conjurer 2
3. Conjurer 3 (Augment Elemental) [MoE]
4. Master Specialist 1 [CM]
5. Master Specialist 2
6. Mindbender 1 (Mindsight) [LoM]
7. Malconvoker 1 [CS]
8. Malconvoker 2
9. Malconvoker 3 (Summon Elemental) [CM]
10. Malconvoker 4
11. Malconvoker 5
12. Malconvoker 6 (Craft Contingent Spell) [CA]
13. Malconvoker 7
14. Malconvoker 8
15. Malconvoker 9 (Rashemi Elemental Summoning) [UE]
16. Master Specialist 3
17. Master Specialist 4
18. Paragonistic Apostle 1 [CC] (Extraordinary Concentration) [CV]
19. Archmage 1
20. Archmage 2
Paragonistic Apostle for Call of Worlds.
Extraordinary Concentration to not be forced to concentrate on those Monoliths. If you'd rather not get monoliths, you can scrap the flaws and instead replace it with Spell Focus for the levels of Archmage.
Craft Contingent Spell is always nice since we'll be giving up 3 schools to get Focused Specialist.
The level of Mindbender (WHY didn't anyone mention this??) is so you can command your creatures without having to speak (and so even when silenced) as well as a great scouting ability from the Mindsight feat.
The rest of the feats are just there to make your summoning better
1) Don't worry about summoning until level 3 or so. Consider yourself a conjurer first until then. Once you hit level 3, the wolf is pretty good - and your duration is decent.
Gotcha, I think I will be starting at lvl 5 though, so I should be able to get the fiendish ape right off the bat. The ape doesn't have improved grab though, so its pretty bad at grappling (Aoo when it tries to grapple, if Aoo succeeds, grapple fails and suchlike), so I'll just use it to tank. Lvl 3 also gives me access to acid breath (or the other blast acid spell from SC at 3rd level) which makes up for the lack of fireball and lightning bolt, I suppose. Small query, what language do fiendish animals understand? It doesn't list it and it is rather important for tactics.
2) Pick up the Cloudy Conjuration feat (I would substitute it for GSF - you don't want GSF anyways.). Each round you cast conjuration - put the cloud in front of your character. This will block line of sight to your character, provide a sickening effect to any who venture within (no save) and will lower just in time for you to cast again next round.
Thats not a bad idea for low level survivability actually. I'll definitely incorporate that into my strategy. I do think I have enough feats to take GSF conjuration though for the blasty conjuration spells.
SF Conjuration
GSF Conjuration
Cloudy Conjuration
Summon Elemental [Reserve]
Minor Shapeshift [Reserve]
Any other feats that I should take? Especially at 6th level, since I don't have access to 4th level spells yet?
3) Pick up grease at level 1 (you probably knew that already)
4) The one summon to consider at level 1: Fiendish Monstrous Spider - have it web your opponent (which will slow movement and prevent charging)
5) Mage armor (naturally)
All good spell picks, mass mage armor later for the pets as well.
6) Take focused specialist: I would not recommend this for any conjurer UNLESS it is a summoning specialist, or only playing very low levels. Since the very low levels are the ONLY levels you won't be a summoning specialist - this becomes win-win. Maybe add either illusion or enchantment to forbidden schools.
I know conventional wisdom is to never take this class feature - but if you plan out your spell memorization ahead - you will find that you ALWAYS want at least 3 conjuration spells - this is worth it - trust me.
Hrrm I really have to think about this one. Evocation is easy enough to give up thanks to shadow evocation and necromancy was decently dismissable, but both enchantment and evocation have some good spells. Conventional wisdom is quite strong here...
7) Take Rapid Summoning and Enhanced Summoning from UA (I'm assuming you already have). Focus on single attack/pounce creatures with Summon Monster spells.
Good advice, my DM seems to be open to the UA variants.
8) Once you get to level 3, use the wolf to trip your potential melee opponents - level 5, switch to grapple with a Fiendish ape. Level 8, switch back to trip with Dire Wolf.
9) Keep your maximum summoning distance from melee at all times.
Good advice as well.
Thanks so much Treantmonk.
prototype00
Gotcha, I think I will be starting at lvl 5 though, so I should be able to get the fiendish ape right off the bat. The ape doesn't have improved grab though, so its pretty bad at grappling (Aoo when it tries to grapple, if Aoo succeeds, grapple fails and suchlike)
Level 5 is sweet, OK - you're a summoner right off the bat.
Why does grapple fail if AoO succeeds?
, so I'll just use it to tank. Lvl 3 also gives me access to acid breath (or the other blast acid spell from SC at 3rd level) which makes up for the lack of fireball and lightning bolt, I suppose. Small query, what language do fiendish animals understand? It doesn't list it and it is rather important for tactics.
I took acid breath too. It's not bad - though the small cone size is somewhat restrictive.
By RAW any Int 3 creature understands a language - if that language is not specified - it understands common.
However, most DM's will make the sensible houserule that LE understand Infernal, CE understand Abyssal (And NE understand one or the other or both), and Celestial creatures understand Celestial.
Check with your DM - point out what the RAW states (They understand common) and ask if they would like to houserule it.
You should take Infernal/Abyssal/Celestial irregardless (for celestials/demons and devils). You should also consider taking Auran, Terran, Aquan, and Ignan. (For Elementals)
Thats not a bad idea for low level survivability actually. I'll definitely incorporate that into my strategy. I do think I have enough feats to take GSF conjuration though for the blasty conjuration spells.
Then go for it.
Any other feats that I should take? Especially at 6th level, since I don't have access to 4th level spells yet?
You have the important summoning-based stuff. Personally, I took Acid Splatter (reserve) and Improved Initiative with my build - but they are hardly required.
You can always check how your DM interprets (and whether they allow) the Invisible Spell feat from Cityscape. I personally avoid it because it seems broken to me (just poor design). However, it is worth a look.
Hrrm I really have to think about this one. Evocation is easy enough to give up thanks to shadow evocation and necromancy was decently dismissable, but both enchantment and evocation have some good spells. Conventional wisdom is quite strong here...
You will be OK if you pass on it, but I would suggest giving it serious consideration.
Level 5 is sweet, OK - you're a summoner right off the bat.
Why does grapple fail if AoO succeeds?
Because of teh rules. It's automatic failure if the AoO succeeds.
You can always check how your DM interprets (and whether they allow) the Invisible Spell feat from Cityscape. I personally avoid it because it seems broken to me (just poor design). However, it is worth a look.
I just noticed that last night. That would be pretty sweet, I'll have to see what my DM says.
prototype00
Because of teh rules. It's automatic failure if the AoO succeeds.
:embarrass How did I miss that?
Well, that leaves a couple decent options:
1) If opponent is not likely to have Combat Reflexes you can always provoke the attack of opportunity by circling before the attempt. Once the opponent has used his AoO, then attempt the grapple.
2) Go for a Trip instead.
Desperation Chain (MiC) - 15,000 - Lets you cast a 3rd level or lower spell while grappled.. summon 2 3rd level monsters to get the guy off your back. 1/day
Also, I miss having your favorite choices for each summon monster level, that was by far my favorite part of it.
Seems like you missed this item I posted in my character...
Desperation Chain (MiC) - 15,000 - Lets you cast a 3rd level or lower spell while grappled.. summon 2 3rd level monsters to get the guy off your back. 1/day.
Sorry - didn't know what it was. Never picked up the MiC. That would be a very nice item for any wizard.
Also, I miss having your favorite choices for each summon monster level, that was by far my favorite part of it.
I haven't removed any content. The "Things to know about SMx" at the beginning of each section is a link to the portion you are referring to. Put them in because the whole thing was getting way to cumbersome (When I went to do an edit - finding the relevant place was more difficult than anything else!)
P.S. : Also check out the SLA link at the bottom of each section. Now you have a quick reference for SLA's available from all the SM's at each level. Very time consuming job - but I'm glad it's there now.
Here's the most general guidelines I can give:
Summoned Monsters are intended to keep your enemies away from you, to eat up their attacks, to prevent their attacks, and ultimately to kill or incapacitate them.
They are intended to be expendable - never forget that.
A SM that dies has done its job for you.
Vision Obscurement: The spells which cause vision obscurement are too many to mention, but include fog/mist/darkness spells most commonly.
These can be very helpful spells. Most fog/mist spells will reduce enemy vision to 5'. If the SM is all they can see - it is likely that is what they will attack. This is good for you and your allies.
Furthermore - SM with Blindsense or Tremorsense (Bats, Scorpions, Spiders) will be able especially effective in these environments.
Movement reductions: The spells which prevent or slow movement from your enemies can also be very helpful.
These spells will encourage opponents to focus on the opponents that are closer. It is your job to ensure said opponent is a SM.
As mentioned before - any attack on a SM is an attack that was not made on your allies (and even more importantly - you)
Offensive Buffing: The spells which make your SM better offensively are also very useful for obvious reasons.
Polymorph is the king of these buffs. For a quick example consider a Gargantuan Centipede (SM VI) might be turned into a 12-headed hydra - giving 11 extra attacks.
Haste is probably #2 - but may be #1 if you have lots of summoned creatures on the ground.
Remember that Str buffs do not stack with augment summoning.
Defensive Buffing: For the most part I would suggest that this isn't worthwhile.
It is your SM job to take damage after all, and they are all easily replaced. Mage Armor IS very cheap though (and at high levels, Mage Armor - mass is also quite cheap) and gives a +4 AC that will be stackable with almost any SM.
I would suggest any Defensive buff that is not at least 2 levels lower than the slot used to summon the creature in the first place is a waste.
Healing: This is pretty much always a terrible choice.
Save your healing for your allies. Your summons are going to dissapear soon anyways.
Giving an extra round or two through healing isn't going to pay off in the long run. (The exception might be a "Heal" spell on a SM IX that is taking loads of HP damage over an extended period. That's about it)
The Archivist (HoH) makes a decent base class entry.
To elaborate:
Archivist makes for an EXCELLENT base class entry, both in terms of roleplaying (Dark Secrets Man Was Not Meant to Know[tm] is the Archivist's main schtick) and mechanics.
Since this is CharOp, though, naturally we're only concerned about the latter (though "it's good roleplaying!" is a great way to convince a lot of DMs to let you get away with stuff that they wouldn't otherwise :D ). What's an Archivist got going for it to offer a Malconvoker?
1) Access to every divine spell in the game. This includes Summon Nature's Ally spells. Granted, none of those spells will benefit from the Mal's special class abilities, but a lot of the other stuff you pick up to enhance summoning in general will apply to these, and having the diversity available is nice.
2) Dark knowledge. These buffs can offer GREAT synergy with large numbers of summoned critters and/or summons with multiple attacks. I'm thinking in particular of Dark knowledge (foe), which can grant up to +3d6 damage to all of your allies' (including summons) attacks! This can make summoning numerous lower level monsters a viable alternative to single higher level ones, especially if the enemies you're fighting don't have great AC. If hitting becomes too much of a problem, you can always toss on Dark Knowledge (tactics) for up to +3 to attack for all allies.
Possible builds: These builds rely on having a minimum of 9 levels in Archivist for the Dark Knowledge (foe) ability, making variant builds fairly limited. Other options exist, but they end up making the Archivist lose access to the major edge s/he has to offer the Malconvoker class.
Archivist 11/Malconvoker 9
The most straightforward approach, and has the added benefit of getting you all of the best Dark Knowledge abilities.
Archivist 9/Malconvoker 9/Sacred Exorcist 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1
Now you've got Turn Undead. Grab Rapid Spell and Divine Metamagic (Rapid Spell), and you can keep up with the UA Conjurer builds. And the Fast Healing 5 for summons makes for a nice capstone.
Archivist 9/Malconvoker 9/Sacred Exorcist 1/Contemplative 1
Much like the build above, though instead of Fast Healing you get the Summoning Domain.
Archivist 7/Malconvoker 9/Uncanny Trickster 3/Sacred Exorcist 1
The one exception to the Level 9 Archivist rule, as Uncanny Trickster (CompSc) lets you advance all class abilities, with the added bonus of a HUGE number of skills points, a much needed boost to Reflex saves, and a bunch of spiffy skill tricks. Has the major drawback of losing another caster level, but this makes for a character that has a bit more diversity in abilities while still packing a HUGE punch with summoning.
To elaborate:
Archivist makes for an EXCELLENT base class entry, both in terms of roleplaying (Dark Secrets Man Was Not Meant to Know[tm] is the Archivist's main schtick) and mechanics.
Since this is CharOp, though, naturally we're only concerned about the latter (though "it's good roleplaying!" is a great way to convince a lot of DMs to let you get away with stuff that they wouldn't otherwise :D ). What's an Archivist got going for it to offer a Malconvoker?
1) Access to every divine spell in the game. This includes Summon Nature's Ally spells. Granted, none of those spells will benefit from the Mal's special class abilities, but a lot of the other stuff you pick up to enhance summoning in general will apply to these, and having the diversity available is nice.
2) Dark knowledge. These buffs can offer GREAT synergy with large numbers of summoned critters and/or summons with multiple attacks. I'm thinking in particular of Dark knowledge (foe), which can grant up to +3d6 damage to all of your allies' (including summons) attacks! This can make summoning numerous lower level monsters a viable alternative to single higher level ones, especially if the enemies you're fighting don't have great AC. If hitting becomes too much of a problem, you can always toss on Dark Knowledge (tactics) for up to +3 to attack for all allies.
Possible builds: These builds rely on having a minimum of 9 levels in Archivist for the Dark Knowledge (foe) ability, making variant builds fairly limited. Other options exist, but they end up making the Archivist lose access to the major edge s/he has to offer the Malconvoker class.
Archivist 11/Malconvoker 9
The most straightforward approach, and has the added benefit of getting you all of the best Dark Knowledge abilities.
Archivist 9/Malconvoker 9/Sacred Exorcist 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1
Now you've got Turn Undead. Grab Rapid Spell and Divine Metamagic (Rapid Spell), and you can keep up with the UA Conjurer builds. And the Fast Healing 5 for summons makes for a nice capstone.
Archivist 9/Malconvoker 9/Sacred Exorcist 1/Contemplative 1
Much like the build above, though instead of Fast Healing you get the Summoning Domain.
Archivist 7/Malconvoker 9/Uncanny Trickster 3/Sacred Exorcist 1
The one exception to the Level 9 Archivist rule, as Uncanny Trickster (CompSc) lets you advance all class abilities, with the added bonus of a HUGE number of skills points, a much needed boost to Reflex saves, and a bunch of spiffy skill tricks. Has the major drawback of losing another caster level, but this makes for a character that has a bit more diversity in abilities while still packing a HUGE punch with summoning.
Thanks for doing the summery. I had planned to edit that post with more info, but got sidetracked on other CO projects.
To elaborate:
Archivist makes for an EXCELLENT base class entry, both in terms of roleplaying (Dark Secrets Man Was Not Meant to Know[tm] is the Archivist's main schtick) and mechanics..
I agree wholeheartedly. I did not realize that Archavist was on the website (since I don't own HoH) - I just read it through - and it is a very strong candidate for base class entry.
I would put it above the Cleric even. Not sure if it is as good as the Conjurer (Rapid summoning variant/enhanced summoning variant/focused specialist). The strengths and weaknesses are different - so hard to qualify.
1) Access to every divine spell in the game. This includes Summon Nature's Ally spells. Granted, none of those spells will benefit from the Mal's special class abilities, but a lot of the other stuff you pick up to enhance summoning in general will apply to these, and having the diversity available is nice.
I would take all the SNA spells if they were offered to me in addition to all the SM spells ;) That's a no-brainer.
2) Dark knowledge. These buffs can offer GREAT synergy with large numbers of summoned critters and/or summons with multiple attacks. I'm thinking in particular of Dark knowledge (foe), which can grant up to +3d6 damage to all of your allies' (including summons) attacks! This can make summoning numerous lower level monsters a viable alternative to single higher level ones, especially if the enemies you're fighting don't have great AC. If hitting becomes too much of a problem, you can always toss on Dark Knowledge (tactics) for up to +3 to attack for all allies.
If you check the numbers - I think that large numbers of smaller creatures would have a huge hitting issue - even with a +3 to hit. However, this is still a nice ability to have - I'm thinking about a couple cats on a charge (that's 10 attacks total)
Archivist 9/Malconvoker 9/Sacred Exorcist 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1
Now you've got Turn Undead. Grab Rapid Spell and Divine Metamagic (Rapid Spell), and you can keep up with the UA Conjurer builds. And the Fast Healing 5 for summons makes for a nice capstone.
Although this is a good build, I would point out that "Grab Rapid Spell and Divine Metamagic (Rapid Spell), and you can keep up with the UA Conjurer builds" is an overstatement (unless your DM is one of the few that allows Nightsticks to power DMM-in which case you should be a Cleric and do the Twin Spell/Repeat spell trick a few posts up). You are better off with Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration) to get 3 uses per day.
So here's what I've done:
1) I've added Archavist to the Base Entry class list - giving it a "very strong" rating for base class entry, with quick highlights of some of the strengths.
2) I've added Sacred Exorcist to the PrC choices. I think that "Favored Foe" is also a good ability for Malconvokers - not putting this PrC on was an oversight on my part
3) I've added the builds you've suggested to the Builds section to give a taste of some Archavist options for players.
Thanks for the Archavist suggestion Snizor!
Thanks for the excellent elaboration stmunks! (I've given credit in the builds section.)
Variants from UA: Rapid Summoning, Enhanced Summoning
Variants from CM: Focused Specialist (Necromancy, Enchantment, Evocation)
Flaws for: Spell Focus: X, Cloudy Conjuration [CM]
1. Conjurer 1 (Augment Summoning) (Spell Focus: Conjuration) (Beckon the Frozen) [Fb]
2. Conjurer 2
3. Conjurer 3 (Augment Elemental) [MoE]
4. Master Specialist 1 [CM]
5. Master Specialist 2
6. Mindbender 1 (Mindsight) [LoM]
...
The level of Mindbender (WHY didn't anyone mention this??) is so you can command your creatures without having to speak (and so even when silenced) as well as a great scouting ability from the Mindsight feat.
The rest of the feats are just there to make your summoning better
You dropped Enchantment so you can't get into Mindbender. If you want to keep Focussed Specialist, you have to drop Illusion... which really sucks (no Invisibility). So it's a trade-off. Also, not sure what the Archmage levels bring to the build (SLAs presumably ?).
That said, Telepathy+Mindsight *is* great.
I linked you in my handbook for wizards if you don't mind :D.
hey i only want to say that you have done a great job.
I linked you in my handbook for wizards if you don't mind :D.
Not at all - that's a terrific compliment - Thank you!!!:D :D :D
I'm going to be honest...I hate the multiple tags. Too much clicking, much how I hate sblocks...
Sorry to hear that.
The intent was that the new format would make it easier for return visitors to find what they are looking for (like flipping through a table of contents and picking what they are looking for),
And in addition make it easier for myself to edit as the lengths of the posts were becoming cumbersome.
(My suggestion to anyone starting a guide - no matter how many posts you "reserve" - it's not enough)
I'll think about whether there is any other way I can work it. Suggestions would be carefully considered.
Thanks for the feedback anyways...
DM nixed the invisible spell idea, but the rest was cool. This will probably be my backup character unless no-one wants to play an arcane caster.
prototype00
Archivist 9/Malconvoker 9/Sacred Exorcist 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1
Now you've got Turn Undead. Grab Rapid Spell and Divine Metamagic (Rapid Spell), and you can keep up with the UA Conjurer builds. And the Fast Healing 5 for summons makes for a nice capstone.
Doesn't archivist cast arcane spells? If that's so, DMM doesn't work with arcane spells.
pg. 80; Divine Metamagic feat
Prerequisites: Ability to turn undead or rebuke undead, selected metamagic feat.
When you take this feat, choose a metamagic feat you already have. This feat applies only to that metamagic feat. As a free action, you can take the energy from turning or rebuking undead and use it to apply a metamagic feat to divine spells that you know. ...
Special: Each time you take this feat, choose a different metamagic feat you know to which to apply it.
Emphasis mine.
Doesn't archivist cast arcane spells? If that's so, DMM doesn't work with arcane spells.
Emphasis mine.
Archivist are divine spellcasters. They just happen to use a Prayerbook (read: Spellbook) to prepare spells.
Archivist are divine spellcasters. They just happen to use a Prayerbook (read: Spellbook) to prepare spells.
So they do.
I do have one favor to ask as it comes to this guide. Would it be possible to list the books some the stuff you list in the guide come from, most especially the spells and MI's? The spell Blood Star, for example, looks awesome, but I have never heard of it.
I know this is a lot of work, but it would be extremely helpful for those of us without encyclopedic knowledge of the D&D library.
Either way, thanks again for an awesome guide, and I will be using this to help with the character for an upcoming campaign.
I absolutely love this guide. The Malconvoker was the first thing to really come out and hit me in the face for Complete Scoundrel as I've been wanting a really good Summoning build for a while. Thank you for your help, Treant.
I do have one favor to ask as it comes to this guide. Would it be possible to list the books some the stuff you list in the guide come from, most especially the spells and MI's? The spell Blood Star, for example, looks awesome, but I have never heard of it.
I know this is a lot of work, but it would be extremely helpful for those of us without encyclopedic knowledge of the D&D library.
Either way, thanks again for an awesome guide, and I will be using this to help with the character for an upcoming campaign.
Thanks so much !!!!
For your specific question - bloodstar comes from the Spell Compendium (as do many of the spells I mention).
You are right - I should put the book of origin for each. It will be done (Though not for a week at least)
I thought I did that for Magic Items - whoops! The only really important one that isn't in the DMG is the Ring of Mighty Summons (Complete Mage)
Another question, is there anyway to summon up Legion Devils (from FCII), I loves those little ****ers.
You can find the details HERE
I'm going to be honest...I hate the multiple tags. Too much clicking, much how I hate sblocks...
yeah i agree
i still love this guide and think its awesome, but all those links are a bit much for me. I can deal with sblocks but having to open up several windows to view stuff is a little annoying for me and my slow internet.
but if its easier for Treantmonk to keep updated that way i dont mind it, better to have it up to date than anything else.
Keep up the great work!!
This seems like a terrific feat for a Malconvoker that has qualified through Cleric, but also as any Malconvoker that multiclasses into Sacred Excorcist.
Take a look when planning your feats/PrC's.
Human CG
Sorcer/Wild Mage/ Malconvoker
1st Sorc1: ACF( Metamagic Specialist), Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning Flaw: Noncombatant, Magical Aptitude
2nd Sorc2:
3rd Sorc3: Meta (Rapid Spell)
4th Sorc4
5th Sorc5
6th Wild Mage: Practiced Spell Caster
7th Mal 1:
8th Mal 2:
9th Mal 3:Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration)
10th Mal 4:
11th Mal 5:
12th Mal 6:Quicken Spell
13th Mal 7:
14th Mal 8:
15th Wild 2:
16th Wild 3:
17th Wild 4:
18th Wild 5:
19th Wild 6:
20th Wild 7:
Overall I’m reasonable pleased-I like putting Wild mage in at 6th level, since I can’t get Malconvoker until 7th anyway, and Practiced spell caster will be doubly useful for covering any –caster levels from Wild Magic and for the one blank level from Mal1. Continuing leveling Wild mage after Malconvoker for flavor mostly but it’s certainly better then going back to sorcerer. The Flaw for Feat smells a bit cheesy to me, an alternative is to push practiced spell caster and the rest back 3 levels.
Considered one level in Mindbinder but I’d like to keep good alignment so I’ll do without.
I think overall the Sorcerer is a less impressive malconvoker then a specialist wizard but the version I have here should be able to make a lot out of the high charisma that we enjoy so. Also not having to give up any schools should allow a lot in the way of interesting spell synergy. I’m thinking a few Save or Be Screwed spells every level (and a couple no-save and be screwed). That should synergize well with creatures that might need some help hitting the toughest opponents.
Well that’s the rough outline, what do yah think?
Looked at your build. You will find the Sorcerer a little less potent than other entry classes - plan your spells known carefully! (With one SM spell known every level, plus Magic Circle, and the Planar Binding spells - there won't be a lot left over.)
Wild mage is normally not a great idea (increasing randomness is usually considered a bad thing), but as far as Summoning goes - at that point CL really is just duration - so you should be OK.
Later levels your party might not be fond of Random Deflector which can redirect things intended for you to them.
You can still do fine with this build -
1) I'm not sure how the RAW works - but as far as I know a Sorcerer adding Metamagic turns a spell into a Full Round action until they get Rapid Metamagic feat (level 9) - so you may want to replan feats. You can maybe get your hands on a Rapid Spell rod in the meantime?
2) Don't get to many of those Save or be Screwed spells. Your Summoned Creatures will eventually be Save or be Screwed without the save (so just be Screwed). I would worry more about some battlefield control/defensive spells or quick transport.
Good luck - the high CHA will be nice for both Planar Binding and Bluff - but the drawbacks of Sorcerer will hurt...
Here's the build:
Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 2 / Malconvoker 8 / Thaumaturgist 4 / Master Specialist 3-4 / Archmage 1 (tenative)
And here's the link.
Snarkhunter:
1) I'm not sure how the RAW works - but as far as I know a Sorcerer adding Metamagic turns a spell into a Full Round action until they get Rapid Metamagic feat (level 9) - so you may want to replan feats. You can maybe get your hands on a Rapid Spell rod in the meantime?
Looks like he's taking the Metamagic specialist alternate class feature from PHBII, it allows the Sorc to cast Met'd spells without the full round increase at the cost of not getting a familiar.
Looks like he's taking the Metamagic specialist alternate class feature from PHBII, it allows the Sorc to cast Met'd spells without the full round increase at the cost of not getting a familiar.
Ahhh...excellent - now that sounds worthwhile.
Just wondering--is the variant that trades Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning really worth it? Scribe Scroll is the Wizard's saving grace (or at least a HUGE part of his shtick) that lets you add tons of utility to your role in the party. Is this worth giving up?
How so? Is scribing scrolls really that important to being a wizard? At worst, you can just purchase scrolls of whatever spells you need. If you do need someone to scribe scrolls, get the artificer or the warlock to do it. They're tonnes better at it than you are.
prototype00
Just wondering--is the variant that trades Scribe Scroll for Augment Summoning really worth it? Scribe Scroll is the Wizard's saving grace (or at least a HUGE part of his shtick) that lets you add tons of utility to your role in the party. Is this worth giving up?
If you LOVE scribe scroll - then this is tomatoh - tomahto at worst since Augment Summoning is a must for all summoners. You can always take whichever feat you didn't take otherwise.
Personally - I never use Scribe Scroll even when I have it (and I play Wizards all the time) - so trading it out for another feat I would have taken anyways is a no-brainer. If I want scrolls - I normally just buy them and save my XP.
Your note about planar binding line of spells:
Why are there no neutral creatures on this list? The reason is that if you can't magic circle against it, and attempt to planar bind it - you are in a heap of trouble - that's why. Only Planar Bind creatures if you have the appropriate magic circle. Magic Circle against evil is the one circle all Malconvokers should have.
Please, add neutral creatures on the lists when you have the time, because I have good news for you !
Neutral creatures are in fact the more exposed to the effects of protection/circle spells.
SRD/Spells/Protection from evil :
Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature.
and…
SRD/Spells/Magic circle against evil :
All creatures within the area gain the effects of a protection from evil spell, and no nongood summoned creatures can enter the area either. You must overcome a creature’s spell resistance in order to keep it at bay (as in the third function of protection from evil), but the deflection and resistance bonuses and the protection from mental control apply regardless of enemies’ spell resistance.
Only good creatures are not subject to the vs summoned effects.
The short texts in others protection/circle spell descriptions are misleading. There's no protection from neutral spell because they are already subjects to the third effect of at least three spells from this line of spells.
Neutral called creatures are an opened option for the malconvoker
Neutral called creatures are an opened option for the malconvoker
You have an odd handle for someone who is so very RIGHT.
Thanks for the help Wrong - I shall add neutral creatures (probably this week - but maybe not until next - I got stuck DM'ing this weekend and need prep time.)
Mask of the Ideal - Illusion - Level 3:
10 mins / level
+4 comp bonus to bluff, diplomacy, and +4 comp bonus to cha checks to influence summoned and charmed creatures.
Doesn't stack with the circlet, but it's a better bonus and doesn't cost you nearly as much. At least better for binding, and at higher levels is a buff you can throw around to enhance with your summons better.
Edit: I didn't find the summons, but I looked over them. The kaorti and neera, varoot are both great SM II summons. My comments copied below.
In the Fiend Folio, you didn't discuss the Nerra, Varoot. You probably dismissed it at first, like I did. 1 hit die and no con bonus from an SM II? Okay attack bonus, okay AC, no special move? Bleh.
But reading further, this is a real gem in the rough. First off, it's one of the creatures that doesn't use Weapon Finesse, so that means an extra +2 to hit with Augment Summoning. On top of that, the varoot has a whole host of nice abilities. Reflective spell resistance 13, which is not only an amazing ability, but the highest SR available at the level by five. He's got a handful of resistances, solid spell-likes (mirror image 1/day and change self 3/day at CL 12 (no, that's not a typo, he's really a CL 12 caster)), and outsider traits. Sonic vulnerability sucks, but that's hardly every going to matter.
He's got a HUGE skill list. +7 bluff, diplomacy, disguise and gather information. +5 intimidate, +6 Listen/Spot, +4 knowledge (any one), +6 sense motive and +6 sleight of hand.
The kicker? This guy runs around with a +2 wounding longsword, at level three. With augment summoning, he's got a +5 to hit, and if an opponent ever wants to touch him through mirror image, it's going to be +7 to hit.
The kaorti is a lot better than first glance too, and he's solid at first glance. AC 18 and 13 HP is quite solid, but his main attack kind of blows at +4 for 1d4/x4 damage. He's got a solid skill selection as well though, at +5 Concentration, +7 craft (any two), +13 heal, +8 intimidate, +7 know (arcana/planes), +9 spellcraft (+2 for scrolls), +5 survival (+2 on other planes), and +7 UMD. Party magic item activator anyone?
However, where he really shines is his spells. Alter self, color spray, feather fall, ray of enfeeblement, reduce, and spider climb, all 1/day. Save of 14+SL at CL 2, which is a really good save for the level(he beats mine). He's also got outside traits and poison immunity to boot.
. -KevinIf you can swing the pre-reqs (requires you to be an outsider, I recommend the otherworldly feat from PGTF) it basically gives you the 8th level Malconvoker ability for the cost of a feat.
And I do believe it stacks with the ability since the bonus is unnamed. What are good 22 HD evil creatures to bind?
prototype00
Hey, I just wanted to say, you guide is amazing, thank you for putting so much work into it. You really helped me setup a path for an amazing prestige class, that has a trick up his sleeve for every situation. Keep up the great work and have a
Thanks Wakeful! Much appriciated!!! :D
A little gem of a feat from Races of Faerun (which as of PGTF has been upgraded to 3.5 edition), is Infernal bargainer.
If you can swing the pre-reqs (requires you to be an outsider, I recommend the otherworldly feat from PGTF) it basically gives you the 8th level Malconvoker ability for the cost of a feat.
And I do believe it stacks with the ability since the bonus is unnamed. What are good 22 HD evil creatures to bind?
prototype00
:D A friend of mine pointed out this feat to me not 2 days ago recommending it for this thread. Quite a coincedence!!!
I was researching ways to meet the outsider requirement. He suggested Alienist 10
Otherworldly is a far superior choice but will be regional specific and require you be Deep Imaskari (Underdark [Deep Imaskar]), elf (Evermeet, Sildeyuir), or spirit folk (Ashane).
So, if planning a new FR character - this is quite doable. I'll add this to the guide within the next 2 days.
If anyone comes up with other ways to meet the outsider requirement for existing characters other than Alienist 10/Contemplative 10 - let us know!
I'm quite interested in seeing how this would work for say an 11th level X/Malconvoker 6 casting Lesser Planar Ally that normally has very limited selection. That brings it up to 10 HD...
I believe there is a LA 0 Asimar and Teifling in the back of the PGTF, that might work but I am AFB right now.
The Lseer Aasimar/Tiefling lose their Outsider type (I believe). The Neraphin (spelling?) from Planar Handbook are a LA 0 Outsider race.
Treantmonklvl20, have you considered the Admiral's Bicorne from Stormwrack for the list of useful items? It gives you a +5 untyped bonus on all Charisma-based checks (and Profession: Sailor), amplifies your voice out to 100 feet, and gives a +2 moral bonus to attack rolls, skill checks, and saves to allies within the same area.
Your right - it is unnamed! I had thought it was a comp. bonus.
51,000 is a hefty price - but the benifits are definitely worth it once it becomes affordable.
I will add it to the suggested M.I. section. Thanks for the help Saulot!
any polymorph spell from polymorph on up changes your type and subtype to meet that of your new form.
It does - but only temporarily - so won't work for qualifying for a feat.
prototype00
Bull's Strength and Bear's Endurance do not stack with Augment.
There's Invisibility (not greater) or Cat's grace I suppose - neither really impress me too much.
I guess an Eagle's Spendor might be of some use on a summons that uses SLA's with a CHA based DC...
If anyone else comes up with some good uses for this - let me know!
Second, let me run this by you for a Malconvoker/Thaumaturgist. One can be Cleric 5/Malconvoker 5/Thaumaturgist 5 by level 15. Thus, using Planar Cohort, one could have a Succubus with a single class level as a cohort. Have her take Marshal (from the Miniatures Handbook).
At level 1, she'll get a single minor aura, which, due to her 26 charisma, yields a +8 unnamed bonus to the appropriate rolls for any ally in 60ft (including your summons and bound fiends). Give her some + Cha gear and get a bigger bonus. By the time you're level 20, she'll have three minor auras, two major auras (small bonus on various things) and can grant an ally a free move action once/day (good to use on yourself if you don't have rapid summoning). Finally, she'll have sf(diplomacy) and a bunch of extra skill points (4 + Int per level), so she can take over as party face. Finally, she'll be able to wear heavy armor and use shields, which is good since it's expensive to replace a Thaumaturgist's cohort.
These auras would be useful to a Malconvoker. Note the Succubus can change auras as a free action once per round.
Art of War: bonus on disarm, trip, bullrush and sunder. With the right summons, the bonus to trip and bullrush could be very useful.
Determined Caster: bonus to rolls to overcome spell resistance. Useful to you, fellow PC casters, and any summons/bound fiends with SLAs.
Master of Tactics: This one will truly shine. Adds bonus to damage while flanking. Imagine 40 fiendish dire tigers with this one.
Motivate Charisma: bonus to all charisma based checks and skills. Use while binding fiends anyone? How about when she's negotiating for you?
Over the Top: bonus on damage when charging. This one is meh, though with 40 fiendish dire tigers it could cause some damage.
What do you think Treant? Does this make the Thaumaturgist's premier ability actually permier?
First - the cohort ability requires calling a creature with a Planar Ally spell.
With planar ally you do not get to choose the creature called - a deity you serve needs to make the selection.
If you do not serve a particular deity, it is answered by a creature that shares your philosophical alignment.
Since your Malconvoker is not evil -we can assume a Succubus will not answer said call.
Furthermore - the cohort will only continue to serve as long as you advance its goals. You don't want to be advancing any goals of a succubus.
The main problem is the inability to make the build of the creature called yourself. Considering you are expending GP and XP every time - you don't want to use too much trial and error.
Not that the cohort ability is bad, it's actually quite good. However, my main concern is that it doesn't work well with the flavor or mechanics of the Malconvoker.
However, I'm now getting an image of a Malconvoker with an Imp on one shoulder (Planar binding) and an archon on the other (Cohort)...could be a humorous character.
1°
Mage Armor
Protection from <???>
2°
Increase Virulence (PHBII).
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
3°
Displacement (This is GOLD)
Fly (only a few low level SM can fly)
Girallon's Blessing (SC)
Hamatula Barbs (SC)
Protection from Energy
Spiderskin (SC)
Wings of Air (SC)
Hmm, imbued summoning from PHB II has potential, attack a 1st second or 3rd level spell to a summoning for +1 spell level. With metamagic school focus, or arcane thesis (for SM 8 and 9) thats more or less free. Are there spells that are specifically good for this?
prototype00
Arcane Thesis would also remove the level increase for Rapid Spell, and (if combined with Metamagic School Focus) would allow from free Empowered SM 3/day.
BTW: Archivists can use the rediculously broken Venomfire (SK) with Imbued Summoning
Since your Malconvoker is not evil -we can assume a Succubus will not answer said call. Furthermore - the cohort will only continue to serve as long as you advance its goals. You don't want to be advancing any goals of a succubus.
If you were CN and served a CE deity (like Demogorgon :D), you could get the succubus. The deity chooses the ally, right? When you get the Succubus, you could try a few things. Maybe bluff it into believing you are advancing its goals? Or actually work towards promoting only its chaotic goals? Better yet, take it around killing devils and clerics of Asmodeus.
Alas, I'm not sure if a Cleric/Maconvoker who isn't CN could get a planar ally with an obscene Cha (I don't kow the non-evil outsiders too well). Suppose you are a CG, NG or CN Cleric Malconvoker serving a CG deity. At level 16, you beg and plead to get, for example, an Asura (BoED, 8hd + 6LA = ECL 14, Cha 17). Or pick some other outsider you can get with a good Cha and ECL 12-14.
The main problem is the inability to make the build of the creature called yourself.
Alas, I was unaware of the devastating and lame comment at the end of the cohort section in the DMG. After telling us that the PC chooses the cohorts race and class, it says "The DM determines everything else." I guess this means that the DM also decides how a cohort advances when it gains a level? I think you could work with this.
Before saying how, I noticed one other problem that I should mention. The Thaumaturgist description says that the outsider "acts" as your cohort. I'm not sure that this means that the planar cohort really is a cohort or not. Most importantly, I don't know if the planar cohort can gain levels like a normal cohort or not. What do you think?
If the Planar Cohort CAN gain levels, then I think there is still a chance to get the Succubus Marshal (or Asura Marshal). You would need to convince the planar cohort (and/or the DM) to take its next level as Marshal. Ask it politely. Give it some +Cha stuff. Introduce it to a Marshal to study with. Regarding the Asura, it's good, it likes you, you paid it, and the Marshal levels would be very useful to it. Why would it say no? If the Succubus says no, then threaten it with the Imp and ask again. Use your high bluff and potentially high diplomacy. Either way, the outsider gets way more from the Marshal level (especially the Succubus) than from a racial hit die, so for an intelligent monster, this is a no-brainer.
The Asura isn't as good as the Succubus, but still very useful I think. I'll look into some other outsiders with good Cha, and see if there's anything else.
I see that this trick is highly dependent on the DM. I guess that that doesn't make for good CO. My apologies for my egregious error.
However, I'm now getting an image of a Malconvoker with an Imp on one shoulder (Planar binding) and an archon on the other (Cohort)...could be a humorous character.
How about with a Justice Archon and the Malconvoker sitting on the shoulders of a couple of bound Balors?
Consider a 10th level Malconvoker with the extend spell feat.
The Malconvoker is, say trying to convince a Balor that he is in fact Demogorgon polymorphed into a human wizard and expects no less loyalty in this form.
The DM determines such a bluff is ridiculus. Such a bluff gives a +20 circumstance bonus to the opponents sense motive roll. That gives our Balor a +50 check. Pretty good.
The Malconvoker casts 6 extended SM I's, 6 extended SM II's and 5 extended SM III's All are used to summon Fiendish Ravens.
Thats: (12) + (6d3+6) + (5d4+10) = 50.5 ravens on average - we'll say 50.
The Malconvoker attempts the Bluff. He's got 13 ranks, +10 from a Choker of Eloquence, and a +2 CHA modifier (Eagles splendor) - total +25. Alone he would have 0 chance of success even if he rolls a 20.
The Raven's all "aid another" - although they do not have the bluff skill, they can use it untrained and need to roll a 12 to succeed. This is a 45% chance of success - for 50 that means that 23 will succeed on average. With a +2 each - that's +46.
Now the Malconvoker is rolling the bluff at +71. If the Malconvoker rolls a 1, the Balor will still miss on a natural 20.
Pretty circumstantial - and uses alot of spells - but the Malconvoker has only used spells of 1st through 3rd level to do this, and will still have plenty of 4th and 5th level spells left.
Just a thought...
Naturally few DM's will allow this to work. Huge amounts of raven's helping you "Bluff" doesn't really make any sense. However, mechanically it does work.
The Malconvoker is, say trying to convince a Balor that he is in fact Demogorgon polymorphed into a human wizard and expects no less loyalty in this form.
Edit: Ummm, my last post about the Succubus Marshal was a bit incoherent. Sorry about that. I think it makes sense now, if anyone is interested.
Seeing as Malconvoker asks a painful sacrifice at level 5 (lost caster level) and only gets its redeeming ability five levels later, I guess I'm better off sticking with Master Specialist?
Just a quick question... I might be playing in a lvl ~5-10 campaign soon, and one of my build concepts is a Focused Master Specialist Conjurer with particular attention to summoning (i.e. with all the right alternate class features).
Seeing as Malconvoker asks a painful sacrifice at level 5 (lost caster level) and only gets its redeeming ability five levels later, I guess I'm better off sticking with Master Specialist?
If you are focusing on Summoning in a campaign that will cap at level 10, I would stronly consider a Spirit Shaman or an Archivist rather than a Conjurer. The Summon Nature's Ally spells are easier to enhance at low levels than Summon Monster.
Get Greenbound or Ashbound if allowed in your campaign with Rapid Spell metamagic and a Ring of the Beast. Levels 5-10 are optimal for that kind of build.
If you are dedicated to Conjurer - I would consider making Summoning a secondary focus of the character - focusing more on battlefield controls. A Conjurer is very good from levels 5-10, but will need to have a good selection of non-summoning conjuration spells (the various Save or Lose spells, all the cloud/fog spells have use as well).
Master Specialist is a solid PrC anyways (if a little lackluster pre level 10). Check out Fatespinner (4 levels), Sacred Exorcist, Geomancer, and any other full spellcasting progression PrC for other options.
To answer your question, no, Malconvoker is not really worth it for you. The big penalty would hit you at level 6, and the big payoff comes at level 10 (when your campaign ends).
The campaign will start right after I finish DMing the current one. It might inherit the previous party, in which case I will have a pre-defined niche to fill (the arcanist). The conjurer would fit nicely there. If, on the other hand, we start out with an all-new party, I'm having an eye on a shapeshifter druid.
Wow, Ring of the Beast, that looks awesome. I wonder if I could pull this off. What I've seen of Greenbound is way too broken for my DM to accept, I'm sure.
More questions:
- Why Spirit Shaman? Is it better than the Druid? I can't say it ever piqued my interest. Maybe because of the crappy illustration.
- What feats would you suggest for the Conjurer? Core and Complete Series are generally allowed. I'm trying to stay away from overt cheese.
Here's what I had in mind for a Summoner: Rapid Summoning, Enhanced Summoning; 1: SpF Conjuration, B: Augment Summoning, 3: Sculpt Spell, 6: MM School Focus: Conjuration, 9: maybe Improved Initiative or Dimensional Jaunt (to make up for the lack of Abrupt Jaunt). The Rapid Summoning ought to make up a bit for the weakness of Summon Monster. Putting a celestial bison between the enemy and me and having him do a partial charge, all in one standard action, has its merits.
For a Spellcaster instead: Abrupt Jaunt, Enhanced Summoning (I guess it's still better than Scribe Scroll); 1: SpF Conjuration, B: Augment Summoning, 3: Sculpt Spell, 6: MM School Focus: Conjuration, 9: Sudden Maximize or Improved Initiative.
- What race to play? Human is always nice, I'd probably drop the "or" at level 9 and thus make Sculpt Spell-for-free available at 6th level already. I like dwarves and whisper gnomes for style, stat bonuses, and darkvision, but at least the latter is going to be lost whenever I go Troglodyte with Alter Self (which I intend to do quite a lot). Also, in the case of the Summoner, I'd keep a wand of Invisibility around and summon to my heart's content out of harm's way.
- Spell Focus and Greater Spell focus are decent choices - although many conjuration spells avoid saves, some of the best save-or-lose spells don't.
- If summoning is going to be a backup tactic - I would consider taking Abrubt Jaunt and then taking Metamagic School (Conjuration) and Rapid spell for 3 standard action summonings per day.
- I always like at least one backup reserve feat for - well - reserve. Acidic Splatter is your best choice with a conjurer.
- For Race, Human is always a good choice, Strongheart Halfling for the bonus feat is good for the same reason. The various elves that give INT bonuses (Grey, Fire, Sun...) are pretty good too. Some people laud the Dwarf because of the bonus to Con - personally, if I wanted a con bonus - I would go Whisper Gnome.
Echodork's Conjurer's Handbook will be of use to you if you go this route. We disagree on the value of Cloudy Conjuration though. Trust me - it's worth it.
- This is a bit off topic (this is a Malconvoker thread) - but the short answer is that the Spirit Shaman is a better caster than a Druid, and does not require spontaneous summoning.
Overall I would say the Druid is a more powerful character. This is because Wildshape and Animal Companion are both potent abilities.
However, A Spirit Shaman's casting system is very unique. It essentially gives spontaneous casting without the metamagic restrictions. This means a Spirit Shaman with a Ring of the Beast (which is dirt cheap) and Rapid Spell feat, can summon as a standard action all day - effectively spontaneously.
Furthermore - the Spirit Shaman has more castings per day then a Druid.
Finally - the Spirit Shaman can be better with non-SNA summoning spells since it can use its spirit guide to concentrate on the summoning spell for him.
Basically - when it comes to summoning - the spirit shaman is equal or better to the Druid in every way.
For basic summoning advice - check out Nepence's Summoner's Handbook
Now I’m assuming Augment Summoning, a Ring of Mighty summons and Infernal Fury for evil creatures
...you might want to remove your Ring of Mighty Summons to keep a decent duration.
I don't think it's a good idea to assume that the Ring of Mighty Summons is used with every summon spell when you present the monster's HP. You can choose to use it or not, and it only functions 3/day, which is probably worth mentioning in the items section.
I don't think it's a good idea to assume that the Ring of Mighty Summons is used with every summon spell when you present the monster's HP. You can choose to use it or not, and it only functions 3/day, which is probably worth mentioning in the items section.
By "I'm now assuming..." I'm not necessarily assuming you are using these things on every summon spell. However, I am assuming them for the purpose of statting the summoned creatures.
I pretty much assume that you will have 3 of your best SM spells memorized at any time - and you will be using the Ring with all of them.
Don't really want to get into different sets of stats, with-without ring of mighty summons, with-without Infernal Fury etc. Just too much work!!!
If you want stats on summoned creatures minus all the augments - they can be found here.
However, you are correct that I should specify it as a limited use item in the magic item section - I will do so immediately. I will also add the suggestion to consider more than one Ring for those that want to Augment every summon spell they cast.
Thanks for the input!
Finally, why is the application of metamagic easier? You still have to pay a spell level for Rapid Spell.
I love imbued summoning. Let me list some of the good spells you could use on your little (or not so little!) friends:
1°
Mage Armor
Protection from <???>
2°
Increase Virulence (PHBII).
Protection from Arrows
Resist Energy
3°
Displacement (This is GOLD)
Fly (only a few low level SM can fly)
Girallon's Blessing (SC)
Hamatula Barbs (SC)
Protection from Energy
Spiderskin (SC)
Wings of Air (SC)
Opinions ?? Ideas ? Someone could tell me if i'm right or wrong with this list ??
Thank you so mutch
Not sure if this is a question that has already been pointed out, but why is Planar Binding, Lesser being referred to as a 4th level spell?
It would be an error. If you could you direct me to where I do this and I'll fix it up right away.
Hmmm, I've reread the Spirit Shaman, and I'm somewhat underwhelmed by the class features. The PHBII Druid's shapeshifting is so much more useful and versatile. The "known" spells per day list is extremely meager -- he'd be a one-trick pony in the level ranges I'm interested in. That kind of defies the purpose of being a spontaneous caster. The only advantage I see is having four rather than two of the highest-level spells per day.
Finally, why is the application of metamagic easier? You still have to pay a spell level for Rapid Spell.
Yeah, but he can change out the "Spells known" every day. So you got a differnt list if you are going under water than if you expect to run into undead. You can expand the list with Spontaneus Summoner and Spontanous Healer, and there is a trick where you can apply a free one level metamagic adjustment to one spell known per day. (Metamagic school focus, I think)
I've been trying to build a healer with that trick. Pile on some metamagic level reducers, and cast empowered, chained, ranged Imbued heal spells. Sideline in conjurations.
- Cloudy Conjuration (CM) is a fantastic feat for any conjuration build. Summoner or not.
This may be a stupid question, but can someone show me how this feat can be used well? It sounds cool, but I just can't see how it plays out.
I'm playing a 2nd level conjurer who is aiming towards Malconvoker and might want to take it for my 3rd level feat.
Hell, take a 5' step back afterwards in the opposite direction of an enemy. Unless someone comes around they still think you're in that space, and will try to target it ranged attacks and so on, automatically missing. And even if they don't you can probably make a case with the DM to make a hide check vs. their spot check to see you since you're partially behind the cloud unless they come around. Basically a poor-man's free displacement against ranged attacks and blur against melee ones if you stay in the same space.
(remember that Cloudy Conjuration is a 5' radius effect - that's a 10' square)
Defensive:
Choose the option where the Cloudy conjuration can appear adjacent to you. Specifically, have it appear in between you and your enemies. You now have full concealment from them. Now take a 5' step to the side. you just screwed all targeted casters and enemy archers.
Furthermore - meleers who move through will be sickened - no save - unless they have enough move to come out the other side.
Effects like this often screw you too. Not Cloudy conjuration. It dissapears just as you are about to take your next action (hint - cast another conjuration spell and have it reappear).
Best of all - it's not a seperate spell - it's a free affect with any conjuration spell cast.
Offensive
Casting a Glitterdust/Stinking Cloud/Grease? In this case - have the Cloudy Conjuration appear over your enemy (choose the option where the cloudy conjuration appears in the same place as your spell effect). Your enemy just got sickened with no saving throw. However, the saving throw he needs to make against the Grease/Glitterdust/Stinking Cloud is now at -2.
Conjuring a creature? Have the Cloudy Conjuration cover both the SM as well as the enemy. Both have concealment - but only the enemy is sickened. You just stacked the deck in your SM favor. If your SM has tremorsense or blindsense - you've stacked the deck further - since the enemy now doesn't have concealment any more.
Battlefield Control
Just as a fog cloud or a wall of smoke can be effective as battlefield control - so can the Cloudy Conjuration. Place it adjacent to your last spell target - this can often seperate enemies allowing for divide and conquer tactics.
My current DM's take on Cloudy Conjuration: "It's ridiculusly broken" I agree with him.
Casting a Glitterdust/Stinking Cloud/Grease? In this case - have the Cloudy Conjuration appear over your enemy (choose the option where the cloudy conjuration appears in the same place as your spell effect). Your enemy just got sickened with no saving throw. However, the saving throw he needs to make against the Grease/Glitterdust/Stinking Cloud is now at -2.
Actually, the cloud appears at the same time as the spell effect, not before. There's no reason the spell should already profit from the save debuff. Your DM is being generous if he rules it that way.
It still sounds like a nice feature though.
I haven't read through the entire thread, so if this has already been mentioned, I'm sorry, but I didn't see it written into the original handbook. As far as races go, Illumian allows for you to take a sigil that makes up for the lost caster level (up to two levels as practiced spellcaster), and get +2 to all charisma and charisma related checks. That's not only +2 bluff, but also +2 on your planar binding charisma checks. Also if you aren't planning on losing another caster level via some other prestige class (I know I saw a build that added another lost caster level), this also allows for you to take the trait Spellgifted (Unearthed Arcana) without any effective cost.
Nobody had mentioned that before - good point. I'll add that in to the races section.
However, I'm wondering whether the penalty to spellcaster level on non-conjuration spells would be "fixed" through illumian or practiced spellcaster though - how does the specific wording of the ability work?
Actually, the cloud appears at the same time as the spell effect, not before. There's no reason the spell should already profit from the save debuff. Your DM is being generous if he rules it that way.
It still sounds like a nice feature though.
I don't know if there's anything in the rules about simultaneous effects like these - I think you're right that the DM will have to make a ruling (if anyone knows if there's been any Sage advice on this - let me know.)
However, I'm wondering whether the penalty to spellcaster level on non-conjuration spells would be "fixed" through illumian or practiced spellcaster though - how does the specific wording of the ability work?
"Reduce your caster level by 1 whenever you cast a spell that is not from your chosen school."
Good point, I could see that being ruled either way.
P.S. Also, you might want to mention the opportunity to get +2 on your charisma checks with Illumian as well as the practiced spellcaster effect. That's +2 to your bluff and your planar binding rolls.
My current DM's take on Cloudy Conjuration: "It's ridiculusly broken" I agree with him.
Two words: Acid Splash.
Two words: Acid Splash.
Not following...
Normally cantrips aren't combat spells and often even less useful than a crossbow. With cloudy conjuration you gain 3 - 5 new slots for combat purposes at first level.
I think FloatLikeABee means you can get something useful out of a conjuration cantrip with cloudy conjuration.
Normally cantrips aren't combat spells and often even less useful than a crossbow. With cloudy conjuration you gain 3 - 5 new slots for combat purposes at first level.
Ah - I see.
Acid Splash blows though - even for a Cantrip. Caltrops is a fair bit more useful.
I get the point now though - thanks.
I'm probably going to go focused specialist (conjurer) into malconvoker, Evocation and Necromancy look like good schools to give up, but what should be the third? Everything else is painful, but it looks like enchantment isn't bad.
Thanks for answers,
prototype00
Small Query and a bit of thread necromancy here.
I'm probably going to go focused specialist (conjurer) into malconvoker, Evocation and Necromancy look like good schools to give up, but what should be the third? Everything else is painful, but it looks like enchantment isn't bad.
Thanks for answers,
prototype00
Evocation=>enchantment=>necromancy is the default order. Enchantment is just to situational for most tastes and necromancy has some gems, but is a very small school.
Small Query and a bit of thread necromancy here.
I'm probably going to go focused specialist (conjurer) into malconvoker, Evocation and Necromancy look like good schools to give up, but what should be the third? Everything else is painful, but it looks like enchantment isn't bad.
Thanks for answers,
prototype00
I agree with Archrpwr (see? It can happen...)
With my current Malconvoker I gave up Evocation, Necromancy and Illusion - if I could go back I would trade Enchantment for Illusion.
I find I never use enchantment - and I miss illusion.
I agree with Archrpwr (see? It can happen...)
With my current Malconvoker I gave up Evocation, Necromancy and Illusion - if I could go back I would trade Enchantment for Illusion.
I find I never use enchantment - and I miss illusion.
Since when do we disagree? I don't think I've ever been in a real disagreement with you.
We certainly did not agree on my recent focused specialist thread. (I believe you agreed with Logicninja)
However, I was definitely exaggerating. Only mentioned it at all since it was a related topic (focused specialist restricted school choice)
Definitely wasn't meant to offend!!! Your opinion is respected even when we disagree!
Actually, we usually do agree - but not always.
We certainly did not agree on my recent focused specialist thread. (I believe you agreed with Logicninja)
However, I was definitely exaggerating.
K. Just making sure we don't have some sort of feud I wasn't aware of.
Evocation, necromancy and enchantment it is then.
prototype00
I was looking around for a spell that could really make Imbued Summoning shine and ran across Girallon's Blessing out of the Spell Compendium. 3rd level spell, grants additional attacks, which are always welcome, AND a rend.
Possible bit of confusion though, it states the creature gains 4 claw attacks which assumes the base creature had arms without claws already. I can only assume if given to say, a tiger, it would only gain 2 claw attacks, but that's not really what's written...
In either event it's a pretty amazing buff for any summon
-Daymare
Nice guide, I always liked the idea of a summoner but was never inspired to run one before. This will definately be my next char.
However, you can take the feat Arcane Disciple and select the Summoner domain from CD which will add the Planar Ally spells to your spell list, allowing access to the Thaumaturgist.
The Thaumaturgist PrC lists ability to cast lesser planar ally as a requirement. Does casting the spell from a scroll count? A minimum caster level in cleric is not listed as a prerequisite. If this works, it opens up the PrC to Arcane casters with a one-level dip.
Nice guide, I always liked the idea of a summoner but was never inspired to run one before. This will definately be my next char.
Err... maybe Arcane Disciple: Summoner and Southern Magician??? Not sure how they managed it...
It also nets you spontaneous casting of any spell you know, but only within the Rashemen area.
A one-level dip will do it, but it requires Leadership (but gives a bonus to your cohort), and the Ethran feat which doesn't quite suck for a Malconvoker (bonus to Charisma checks and skills). And you have to be a female Rashemi Witch and a lot of RP.
That said - I don't necessarily suggest that route for Wizards. For Clerics it's a decent choice (their choices are more limited) - however - for wizards the Arcane Disciple feat is otherwise pretty useless - and the MAD involved is also not optimal.
For Wizard/Malconvokers check out my PrC suggestions. Paragnostic Apostle, Master Specialist, Archmage, Fatespinner, and Sacred Exorcist are all excellent choices. Mix and match for added fun.
This is the build my current Malconvoker character is working towards: Conjurer (UA variants as above) 3/Master specialist 4/Malconvoker 6/Paragnostic Apostle 3/Fatespinner 4
Notice no Thaumaturgist.
The abilities of Thaumaturgist don't necessarily synergize all that well with Malconvoker IMO. The Malconvoker is more specialized towards Planar Binding/Evil summons - the Thaumaturgist more towards Planar Ally.
Even if you are going into Thaumaturgist - if you are also doing Malconvoker you should Never Ever Ever wait until qualifying for Thaum to get Augment.
You need to be going Malconvoker at 6th and continuing straight until 10th. The whole point is to get Infernal Legion ASAP. If you aren't doing that - why go Malconvoker at all?
Even for Cleric Builds going Thaumaturgist - never wait until Thaum to get Augment Summoning. Not if you're a Malconvoker also.
I agree with Archrpwr (see? It can happen...)
With my current Malconvoker I gave up Evocation, Necromancy and Illusion - if I could go back I would trade Enchantment for Illusion.
I find I never use enchantment - and I miss illusion.
I've found it's quite different for me. I banned the same schools you mentioned above, and I really miss Necromancy. It's application for a Malconvoker is pretty limited, but it contains a huge number of the debuffs you list as being useful when casting Planar Binding. I missed it so badly, I took the Leadership feat mostly for an Elven ray focused cohort who specializes in Necromancy. Assay Spell Resistance followed by 2 Enervations and a Bestow Curse backed up with Fearsome Necromancy makes all the difference in the world for binding those high Cha creatures, like Succubi.
Heh... I'll have to find a replacement for him though, as he got grappled by a dragon last session... and it didn't end well.
I like this build. What order would you take those levels? What special abilities do you give up by not taking more levels of MS?
4-5: Master Specialist
6-10: Malconvoker
11-14: Fatespinner
15: Malconvoker
16-18: Paragonostic Apostle
19-20: Master Specialist
The main ability you give up through Master Specialist is the 3/day swift conjuration spell at level 10.
However - I like the Fatespinner quite a bit - can't do them both.
Level 4 Master Specialist gives CL to summoned HP - a decent ability.
i want to ask, i notice that Domain Spontaneity (Comp Div.80) is not mentioned in the feats section, and i'm wondering why?
most people who take the cleric route will probably take the Summoning Domain, and i think it would really come in handy to take this feat to give yourself some flexibility.
any thoughts?
Certainly a decent choice though. It is unfortunate that the Spontaneous Summoner feat does not work with Summon Monster spells
.Personally - I like the DMM - Rapid Spell - Extra Turning route.
most or all of the SM spells dont really seem powerful enough to waste an additional level on it, just to make it cast quicker.
although i agree that the DMM route is nice, and definitely more flexible, you still waste a precious feat on the DMM itself, and then you must use TWO turn attempts each time you use it.
ALSO, what do you think of the feat Demon Mastery, from Fiendish Codex I.....?
Worth mention at least. (Dragon #325 iirc)
how useful is rapid spell... really?
most or all of the SM spells dont really seem powerful enough to waste an additional level on it, just to make it cast quicker.
although i agree that the DMM route is nice, and definitely more flexible, you still waste a precious feat on the DMM itself, and then you must use TWO turn attempts each time you use it.
ALSO, what do you think of the feat Demon Mastery, from Fiendish Codex I.....?
Personally, I've never used Rapid Spell with a Malconvoker because the Malconvoker I play uses the Conjurer Rapid Summoning Variant.
What I can say is that Standard Action summoning is huge. Getting the creature on the map as soon as you cast is a big deal.
Of course - lowering your SM level by one is a bigger deal - and if you are limited to that you shouldn't use Rapid spell at all.
However - using DMM is an option to get around that. Yes - it is less spectacular than higher level metamagic uses - but DMM (Rapid Spell) + a couple Extra Turn feats should give you several uses per day.
Really, I don't know if that is the best option (or the only option). It's just one option. Personally - if I were to play a Cleric Malconvoker I would be looking for ways to get standard action casting. It might be Rapid Spell + DMM, or Rapid Spell + Metamagic School, or a Rapid Spell Rod. I haven't played with the builds enough to know which is the best option.
As for Demon Mastery - it's OK. The +1 CL is pretty insignificant by the level you would be summoning demons (level 5 minimum for the dretch). The +2 to CHA checks for Planar Binding is the meat of it. However - it's only good for binding demons which is a bit restrictive.
+2 is a decent bonus - basically equivalent to a +4 Cha bonus. I don't know if it's worth a whole feat for the narrow purpose of it though. There are other ways to beat the Planar Binding without devoting feats towards it.
I'm pretty sure you are avoiding Dragon material but, for people who can get use it Easy meta-magic (Rapid Spell) is an excellent feat or the non-UA wizard entries, or as a way to get abrupt jaunt.
I usually avoid Dragon material since it's not WOTC published it becomes dodgy, furthermore - fewer people have access to it. Feats I would usually bring up though since they are available on the net. Here's Easy Metamagic.
However, this feat has that old standby restriction we often see where the feat cannot reduce the spell level to less than one more than the original spell. This makes it useless combined with +1 level metamagic - such as Rapid Spell. So unfortunately - the trick doesn't work. If it did - I would definitely mention it.
.I do think you will have fun convincing a DM that the bonus from Demon Mastery should apply to all Planar Bindings regardless of the RAW.
Definitely worth consulting with your DM before assuming anything. However - the improved range of use makes the feat a decent choice - I'll make sure it's added to the Feat section here right away.
FIRST: Communication with your summons/binds is really important if you want your summoned/binded creature to actually be able to listen to your commands (ie scout, check for traps, etc). Otherwise, a summoned creature can attack your enemies, but not much else. In binding, you have even less options if you can't speak with the creature (though you already have at least one of the two main languages at issue here)
This is especially important with regard to the elemental summon reserve feat- those creatures all speak elemental languages only, so if you want them to scout as the thread suggest, you have to be able to talk to them.
SECOND: Divine metamagic is great. I have it on my Clr5/Mal7 and can always rapid spell my summons. However, by the errata you have to take it once for every metamagic feat, which becomes really feat intensive to do things like Twined Repeating summons.
Again- great thread.
Great thread. Thought I'd bring up a few things that I hadn't seen mentioned yet:
FIRST: Communication with your summons/binds is really important if you want your summoned/binded creature to actually be able to listen to your commands (ie scout, check for traps, etc). Otherwise, a summoned creature can attack your enemies, but not much else. In binding, you have even less options if you can't speak with the creature (though you already have at least one of the two main languages at issue here)
This is especially important with regard to the elemental summon reserve feat- those creatures all speak elemental languages only, so if you want them to scout as the thread suggest, you have to be able to talk to them.
SECOND: Divine metamagic is great. I have it on my Clr5/Mal7 and can always rapid spell my summons. However, by the errata you have to take it once for every metamagic feat, which becomes really feat intensive to do things like Twined Repeating summons.
Again- great thread.
You are right about Divine Metamagic - I haven't done much with Cleric Malconvokers. I still think you were right to go Rapid Summoning.
As for communication - I did mention the languages to take under the "what skills should I take" section. Basically - you should get all the extraplanar languages. It's not too hard even taking Speak Language as cross-class.
(Hmmm...actually - might be harder for a Cleric. Remember though that fiendish creatures understand common by RAW - so plan ahead for which languages you need. Terran should definitely be on the list, you already have fiendish/celestial in order to qualify for Malconvoker)
I only mention the divine MM b/c twined repeating is not a real option.
Shazam. ;)
Infernal Bargainer from Races of Faerun adds +2 HD to your planar pets.
Shazam. ;)
Only for Planar Binding and Planar Ally spells, but it's still nice. The problem is that you have to be an Outsider to take that feat.
Infernal Bargainer from Races of Faerun adds +2 HD to your planar pets.
So UA Focused Conjurer 3 / MS 10 / Malconvker 6 / Anything 1
With Infernal bargainer
We get swift summons, and a balor...how lucky
This is a great find!
Only for Planar Binding and Planar Ally spells, but it's still nice. The problem is that you have to be an Outsider to take that feat.
You're in Faerun.
Take the Otherworldly feat.
Done! :D
Achaierai, seems better then shadow mastiff most of the time, and has insanity 3/day.
Anyways, its just a thought.
So, I've been promoting the Domain Wizard variants for a while... I think its worth mentioning that using Planar Binding spells in conjunction w/ the Fire or Earth Domain can get you some lower-level cohorts, basically permanently. Considering the SLAs you can get this way, I think its worth it. Using Enervation ahead of time allows you to keep Multiclassing, too.
Anyways, its just a thought.
You don't have to convince me that domain wizard's rock - a wizard who gets the bonuses of specialization without having the disadvantages. I just find that many DM's won't allow them (since they basically have no drawback).
Also - a domain wizard is a generalist -so won't get some of the other variants nice for Malconvokers (I really don't see the point in playing a wizard/malconvoker who doesn't get Rapid Summoning) - however - a conjuration domain wizard is still an excellent character even if Malconvoker isn't your taste.
However - if we are talking about the UA Domain Wizards - I can't find an earth domain - and I'm not sure how the fire domain is helping planar binding in any way.
Is there another domain wizard variant I don't know about?
Also - give some more insight into this enervation trick you mention.
Firstly - the limitation of Fire or Earth subtype creatures for Planar Binding is counter-productive - since the Planar Binding bonuses of Malconvoker are for evil outsiders only.
The Malconvoker levels will make your Rebuke less effective as well.
So basically - by going this route with a Malconvoker you get 2 seperate options with Planar Binding that do not work together at all.
Or am I missing something?
So, I'll be joining a campaign in about 2 weeks that starts out at 17th and will go into epic levels. Whilst considering a build, and perusing the CO boards for ideas, I discovered that the general consensus seems to be that melee builds are pretty much gimped when it comes to epic levels.
This was disheartening to me. For a while, I considered not joining the campaign at all. For the totality of my D&D career, I have never been able to get into the RP flavor of a wizard, even though I always knew they were vastly superior in terms of game mechanics (I was a glass cannon / Big Stupid Fighter who knew my role! :D ). For some reason, I get more D&D warm fuzzies by stabbing things than by blowing them up...
That all changed when I read your thread on playing God, and followed the link in your sig to this thread. Your masterful analysis, clarity of expression and attention to detail, especially with regard to RP flavor, has inspired me to give the Malconvoker a go as soon as I find myself in the proper campaign suited for one.
This brings me to my questions for you and the other wizard experts that might be reading this thread:
1.) In Echodork's Conjurer's Handbook, he states that the Summoned Monster Specialist "build is not ideal for epic play, as summon monster doesn’t scale up into epic levels." What are your thoughts on this? I was thinking that the Malconvoker's calling/binding abilities would scale, as I could just bind bigger and better stuff as I advanced into epic levels.
2.) Battlefield controller (through Focused Conjurer) will work well as an additional role (maybe my primary role, depending on how effective summoning is in epic levels?), seeing as how the only other arcane caster is a blaster (Sorc). Since I'll be starting at 17th, do you have any general advice on a progression that focuses on late-game viability and ignores playability at low to mid levels?
3.) Since its going epic, should I take 10 levels of a PrC? If so, would it be best to go Focused Conjurer5 / Malconvoker10 / xxx5, or is there a Malconvoker5 / xxx10 combo that would be more efficient since Malconvoker is more of a 5 or 9 level PrC?
I know these questions are pretty open-ended. I'm just not used to working backwards from the high levels and so I was hoping to get some pointers before I start statting out a bunch of 17th builds.
thanks for your time and hard work!
Conjurer 2 / Binder 1 / Anima Mage 3 / Malconvoker 6 / Anima Mage +7 / Malconvoker +1
Has all the Malconvoker goodies 1 level late and has access to Zcecyryl, meaning you can have any creature off the Summon Monster 5 (or lower) list w/ the Alien Template added on top of whatever else it has. Also get 3/day free metamagics, another vestige, L17 casting...
Its a bit silly, but still kind of neat. A generous DM would allow Malconvoker goodies to apply to Zcecyryl's Alien Summoning.
As for your questions:
1) Echodork may be correct - I'm not really sure. I admittedly have zero expertise on Epic as our group avoids Epic like the plague.
2) Not off the top of my head - I'll give this more consideration tonight and reply again then.
3) Malconvoker doesn't have a level 10. From my understanding - this is bad for epic (as it becomes a non-epic progression PrC). So 5 or 6 level dip with another PrC at level 10 seems the best choice (off the top of my head). So perhaps Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Malconvoker 6/Paragnostic Apostle 1 for heading into Epic?
I'll give this some more time after work today...
I know these questions are pretty open-ended. I'm just not used to working backwards from the high levels and so I was hoping to get some pointers before I start statting out a bunch of 17th builds.
Again, with the little I know about epic - you want either lvl 20 in a base class or level 10 in a PrC (those more experienced with Epic - please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong).
If you are dedicated to carrying-out 10 levels of a PrC - then Master Specialist is probably a decent choice since the 10th level will end up giving you 3 quickened (including summoning) conjuration spells/day.
The basic build would be Conjurer 3/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialist 10/Archmage 2.
That should carry into epic decently I think...
The "Rapid Summoning" variant has the stipulation that the monster's summoned can only take a standard action in the round that they are summoned.
The 10th level ability of the Master Specialist allows you to cast a standard action summon spell as a swift action. Does this affect the "standard action only" stipulation of Rapid Summoning? I can't find anything suggesting that it changes it in any way. Am I missing something?
Again, sorry if this has come up before, I just wanted to iron it out before it came up in a game.
The basic build would be Conjurer 3/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialist 10/Archmage 2.
That should carry into epic decently I think...
thanks for the great tips!
I presented this to my DM and he loved the idea of the Malconvoker. I think he's almost more excited than I am. He is really looking forward to seeing what happens when I try to bluff the exalted monk and sorceror into leaving the room so i can bargain with a murderous devil
:evillaughi was thinking of setting up a little pretend torture chamber into which to summon the devil. I'm going to beg/bribe the 2 Dwarves in the party into stripping naked and letting me splatter them with pig's blood and chain them to the corners of the room. Sounds like aid another on my bluff check to me!
This DM loves custom stuff. He has ruled that since Malconvoker is my character's primary identity, i can propose a 10th level so that i can continue it into epic. Also, we are going to work together to come up with a monster list for Epic Summon Monster X and an epic Planar Binding. so here is my dilemma:
1.) What 10th level Malconvoker ability could we invent that would justify taking 10 levels in Malconvoker instead of Master Specialist?
2.) Since he is allowing Malconvoker 10, should i go for a) Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 7 / Malconvoker 10?
or
b) Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 5 / Malconvoker 10 / Archmage 2?
or
c) something else?
thanks so much for any more ideas you have! :D
edit: its a low magic item campaign, the rest of the party is: Warblade, Monk (w/ some smite evil PrC), Blaster Cleric (w/ custom spell list and reserve type feats), Sorceror (focusing on transmutation/enchantment...)
The 10th level ability of the Master Specialist allows you to cast a standard action summon spell as a swift action. Does this affect the "standard action only" stipulation of Rapid Summoning?
To my knowledge - the standard action only stipulation would apply as per normal.
Tip: Remember that "if you are only able to do a standard action in a round" you can do a standard action charge. If you summon creatures with pounce - they can make that standard action charge for a full-attack.
Fiendish Dire Tigers!!!
1.) What 10th level Malconvoker ability could we invent that would justify taking 10 levels in Malconvoker instead of Master Specialist?
2.) Since he is allowing Malconvoker 10, should i go for a) Conjurer 3 / Master Specialist 7 / Malconvoker 10?
1) You know your DM better than I, but if I was to throw out a couple suggestions:
a) By taking a minus on your bluff roll - you can increase the Deceptive Summoning bonuses (Say +4 damage, +4 HP/HD, -4 to dispel)
b) Planar Bindings of evil creatures are extended
c) summon monster spells are medium range if summoning evil creatures
d) +4 CHA to summoned evil creatures (gives SLA's and SR's a boost)
2) How about Conjurer 5 (domain granted ability - summoning as level 5 alternate class ability)/Malconvoker 10/Archmage 5?
(Master Specialist just doesn't fit nicely with 10 levels of Malconvoker)
Firstly, if your GM is uncaring, or your game is set in Faerun, Rashemi Elemental Summoning is a great feat to add. It appears in Unapproachable East and simply requires that you have a caster level of 5 (and I think be from Rashemon, but I wasn't playing FR when I took it so I didn't care). Not only does it make your Earth Elemental scouts that much more durable, it gives your Air Elementals Cone of Cold as a 3x/day SLA, with a CL equal to their HD. You've gone to great lengths to discuss how good SLA's are, and Cone of Cold is a pretty good one to add on, especially when your elementals can move extremely fast to get into a good position.
As a side benefit, the Int on Air and Earth Elementals increases to 10, so if you're doing the scouting trick they can do much more intelligent things for you.
The second item, and one which I have not yet been able to solve completely, is a multi-step realization.
1) By virtue of having no Intelligence score, some creatures such as monstrous spiders have no skill points or feats.
2) The Fiendish template gives them a minimum Int of 3.
3) This means that the creature automatically gains 1 skill point/level (its Int being too low for anything but the minimum) and 1+(HD/3) feats. That's a huge difference even when we start getting to SMIII, as you can get 3 feats for your Huge Centipede.
Here's where it gets tricky:
4) Skills listed in the monster's entry are considered its "class skills", so your GM should be easily able to add the new skill points into its most useful skills.
HOWEVER:
5) How are feats to be determined for the summoned monsters?
I wasn't able to find any rulings similar to this, so the GM just left it up to me to come up with reasonable feats. This is how we ended up with a Huge Centipede soloing a Barbed Devil: Improved Grapple + Snatch = a Hamatula, falling 200 feet off the castle rooftop to its utter doom. Now I'm not sure that works in a RAW sense, but my GM allowed it, so there you go.
Anyway, those are my 2 cents, and I'm curious as to what you all think.
As for your first point - I am aware of Rashemi Elemental Summoning - and it is an excellent feat for Summoners. The Summoning Handbook has it in its feats section.
However, for Malconvokers specifically - Rashemi Elemental Summoning is not quite as sweet for a couple reasons:
1) Elementals are not evil (if those templates added an evil alignment - oooh man)
2) Rashemi Elemental Summoning is not only FR specific, but regional as well.
3) SM is not as good for summoning elementals as SNA if summoning elementals is going to be your specialty - you shouldn't be going Malconvoker at all.
Technically with Rashemi Elemental Summoning and the Summon Elemental Reserve feat - you can get unlimited cones of cold (though not big nasty ones)
As for your second point - you caught me off guard with that - I'll look into it more and respond later on. I wasn't adding any Feats/Skills to my templated creatures....
Thanks for the input DaigotsuRezan!
As for your first point - I am aware of Rashemi Elemental Summoning - and it is an excellent feat for Summoners. The Summoning Handbook has it in its feats section.
However, for Malconvokers specifically - Rashemi Elemental Summoning is not quite as sweet for a couple reasons:
1) Elementals are not evil (if those templates added an evil alignment - oooh man)
2) Rashemi Elemental Summoning is not only FR specific, but regional as well.
3) SM is not as good for summoning elementals as SNA if summoning elementals is going to be your specialty - you shouldn't be going Malconvoker at all.
Technically with Rashemi Elemental Summoning and the Summon Elemental Reserve feat - you can get unlimited cones of cold (though not big nasty ones)
That's basically my main point. While it doesn't do anything to help your primary focus, and it has its limitations (though depending your campaign, the setting and region limitation does not apply), it gives you something to fall back on.
There will be times when you actually won't want to summon evil creatures if possible; for example, if Magic Circle Against Evil, Holy Word, Dispel Evil, or similar spells are being cast. The True Neutral elementals can ignore all those lovely spells.
The main combo is with Summon Elemental, because while they aren't especially nasty, you don't have to expend any spells yourself. Let's look at this way: A Malconvoker has just gained 6th level spells, with a total character level of 12 (some combination of wizard/cleric, Malconvoker, and maybe another PrC). You can spend a standard action--no spells, no times per day, just a standard action--to get three consecutive Cone of Colds. Admittedly, they're only 4d6 each for a total of 12d6, with three saves... but that's a d6 per level. And even though it took a little time, you can use it on fights you don't want to waste your spells on.
Besides, I found that by the time the RES feat is truly useful, you've already got all the truly necessary and powerful feats.
Of course, I should probably point out that YMMV, and that the tactics I've successfully employed with elementals may not work for everyone.
Just a little something I picked up on while preparing a cleric malconvoker - in the Planer Handbook there is an alternate class ability for clerics at level 4 - Planar Dismissal. Basically gives you turning against summoned creatures working off caster level not cleric level. Very nice as a failsafe incase of a bad bluff check and also to restrict opposing summoners. The cost is you count as 3 levels less for turning undead.
Phaezen
5) How are feats to be determined for the summoned monsters?
I've emailed my DM your excellent points. Personally, if I was DM'ing - I would make a Priority list of core feats and have the monsters take the feats in order. Maybe Power attack, Combat Reflexes, Cleave, Dodge, Weapon Focus etc. - you get the picture.
The skill points likely should be split between some stupid creature basics - Spot, Listen, Climb, Jump equally.
Now if your DM is generous and allows you to pick your own feats - well then, get Shock Trooper for your Dire Tigers and laugh. (Heedless Charge + Pounce makes the world a happy place)
This definitely requires more than just brief mention in the guide - this is big stuff. I'll be working it in within the next few days. Thanks again for the input - that is pretty revolutionary stuff!
Just a little something I picked up on while preparing a cleric malconvoker - in the Planer Handbook there is an alternate class ability for clerics at level 4 - Planar Dismissal. Basically gives you turning against summoned creatures working off caster level not cleric level. Very nice as a failsafe incase of a bad bluff check and also to restrict opposing summoners. The cost is you count as 3 levels less for turning undead.
Phaezen, that looks to me like a complete no-brainer! -3 levs for turning undead is nothing at all (especially if you're spending the majority of your turns to power divine feats). Good catch - I'll make sure that gets in the guide as well.
(thanks for the compliment as well!)
Now if your DM is generous and allows you to pick your own feats - well then, get Shock Trooper for your Dire Tigers and laugh. (Heedless Charge + Pounce makes the world a happy place)
Just for clarification, I need to point out that Dire Tigers already have feats, it's only the Vermin that need extra ones. If you can find a way to get Monstrous Scorpions Pounce, though, I'll be in your debt. :P
Slight nitpick - the Planar Handbook feat "Fiendish Summoning specialist" requires a non-good alignment, while Malconvoker requires non-evil. I think Malconvoker wins.
Slight nitpick - the Planar Handbook feat "Fiendish Summoning specialist" requires a non-good alignment, while Malconvoker requires non-evil. I think Malconvoker wins.
neutral = non-evil
neutral = non-good
Just for clarification, I need to point out that Dire Tigers already have feats, it's only the Vermin that need extra ones. If you can find a way to get Monstrous Scorpions Pounce, though, I'll be in your debt. :P
Thought about that afterwards. You are right - only Vermin who get the Fiendish template need more feats.
My DM has suggested a Feat pool which these creatures will draw upon in order stemming from the most popular feats for animal types. He hasn't fleshed out the specifics yet, but it will likely include: Alertness, Endurance, Toughness, Run, Greater Fortitude, Iron Will - etc.
Not earth shattering stuff - but increasing HP and Saves is still worthy of note.
neutral = non-evil
neutral = non-good
Fair enough. It should probably be noted in the description of the feat Treantmonk gives, however, that to take it you'd have to be neutral.
Also, have negative levels been discussed as an option for helping to win the charisma check?
A creature takes the following penalties for each negative level it has gained:
-1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
(other inconsequential stuff)
Fair enough. It should probably be noted in the description of the feat Treantmonk gives, however, that to take it you'd have to be neutral.
Fiendish Summoning Specialist (PH): Allows you to add one evil creature per level to your summon monster spells. It will require you to be of non-good alignment though (restricting you to the neutral alignments). (Planar Handbook) - (thanks to Roccu for this suggestion - very good!)
(emphasis mine)
pretty sure it's always been like that
Regardless, is the negative level trick a viable tactic?
Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the feat Infernal Bargainer from Races of Faerun lets you cast planar ally/binding and get an evil creature 2HD higher than normal.
Yeah, JanusJones Already pointed this one out, It's nice because it enables you to make an epic-ready build and still bind a balor
.thanks!
So, i'm trying to go through the practical steps to calling and binding a Balor. Here's what i have so far:
Make sure you prep right. you know the drill: Magic Circle against evil, focused inward, strengthened by spellcraft, dimensional anchor. Also, you'll want to cast as many cha buffs and skill check buffs that you can think of.
Now you cast Greater Planar Binding. Balors have a will save of +19 which means the save DC on your Conjuration spells had better be high if you expect to even get the thing inside your trap at all. (Edit: BTW, what is a good 8th level spell DC for a Conjuration specialist to shoot for?)
Deceitful Bargaining gives the ability to Bluff a called evil creature to make it more willing to serve (-5 to opposed cha check). Balors have telepathy. Isn't it hard to bluff someone when they can read your mind?
So, just use a spell that protects your mind from telepathy, right? Moving along... Assuming i'm willing to burn a Moment of Prescience on the bluff check (as well as the opposed Cha check later) and some decent gear, we are looking at a base bluff check of about +46 at 16 (19 Ranks + 16 MoP + 8 gear + 3 skill focus).
Balors have +30 sense motive. But what kind of bluff are you going to give it? "Listen Mr. Balor, there's this disgustingly good paladin masquerading as a Drow priestess. We need to kill him to rid the world of his filth!" Taking a look at the table in the SRD, i would say that bluff is hard to believe and puts him at risk of getting a smite to the grill (+10 to his sense motive). There may be other bluffs that you could think of that would be less risky. "Welcome to my farm... of DOOM!! i got a lot of beets, and they are ripe for the harvest. Here, take this hoe and get going!" But any bluff that doesn't include some risk is not going to be believable. The Balor community is probably aware that someone wouldn't risk calling them unless they intended to do something important.
This will be a tough check to win.
Now you're probably thinking, "just debuff it!" Now, imagine you are a Balor. You're having a pretty good day raping, pillaging, tormenting the innocent, etc, when BAM you get sucked into some gnome's house. You prepare to slaughter him, but then he starts casting a bunch of spells on you. You start to feel seriously weak and your spidey-senses (spellcraft checks) are telling you that he's casting bestow curse, geas, etc. The Insidious Insight spell was a dead giveaway. Now, he starts trying to convince you that you're on the same side and that you need to team up against the forces of good...
I guess you could just rely on your own buffs to get your bluff check super high. But can we think of enough buffs to reliably beat a +40 or +50 opposed roll?
So, instead of bluffing him, lets just forget the whole bluff check nonsense. All success does is give you a +5 to your opposed roll to dominate him into serving you. Wouldn't it be more expedient to just spend all this effort on that cha check? After all, +8 is much easier to beat than +30. Hold on a second here....
I thought the whole point of the Malconvoker is to BS these demons into thinking that you are on the same side? Aren't we defenestrating the flavor of the class by circumventing the bluff check? Or is it just silly to think that the 8th level Improved Calling would actually be useful, except to advance the crappier demons with low sense motive scores?
what do you guys think about all this?
"Join up or I orb you to death. You die here, you die permanently, you know that right?"
prototype00
I believe Telepathy usually only grants a +4 bonus to such checks, and even then it's only if that is something like detect thoughts: mere telepathy doesn't give him any sort of ability to read your mind, just pick up and send direct signals.
I'm sure others can help more, I don't have time to hash out all the details you'd need to ensure victoly.
At that point with the power I'm weilding, I'm basically just going to tell him:
"Join up or I orb you to death. You die here, you die permanently, you know that right?"
prototype00
that sounds more like Intimidate to me.
i guess that isnt that big of a problem. you still come off evil when you're not. but does it fit with the flavor of the PrC?
you are a bad mofo who eats Celestial Riding Dogs for breakfast.
EAT YOUR BREAKFAST AND EAT HEARTY, FOR TONIGHT, WE DINE IN THE INFINITE LAYERS OF THE ABYSS
:D
you're right about Telepathy, i was confusededed.
why does it have to think you are evil? evil creatures fight evil creatures, and will even help neutral/good creatures so long as it serves their end.
Just tell the balor that there is a plot of an evil mortal to assault the abyss, and command multiple layers, which he will in turn bargin to DEVILs to gain power, this is surely something any balor would wish to prevent, as giving the devils a stronger foothold in the abyss is certainly something a balor would be against.
You tell him that he must follow your commands precisely, and give you his true name so that you may release him from this evil guys potential spells and call him back to continue the war against these devils. You offer your assistance in dispatching devils in return for the balor's assistance in dispatching devils, both parties win. The bluff check is to tell the balor that the villains that you are fighting are being controlled by devils in order to give the Hell's an advantage in the Blood War.
This probably works better on devils, since they are lawful, but no Balor would want to be run from it's home, and ensalved by Asmodeous.
Binding a Balor
So, i'm trying to go through the practical steps to calling and binding a Balor. Here's what i have so far:
Make sure you prep right. you know the drill: Magic Circle against evil, focused inward, strengthened by spellcraft, dimensional anchor. Also, you'll want to cast as many cha buffs and skill check buffs that you can think of.
Definitely the correct first steps.
Now you cast Greater Planar Binding. Balors have a will save of +19 which means the save DC on your Conjuration spells had better be high if you expect to even get the thing inside your trap at all. (Edit: BTW, what is a good 8th level spell DC for a Conjuration specialist to shoot for?)
Naturally you will be using a Calling Diagram (Spend the 3+ hours and take 20)on the Magic Circle - so no SR for our Balor. It will get a Will save though as you mention. If it succeeds - it is not called into the binding - you've lost the spell - better try again tomorrow.
There aren't alot of ways to increase DC that I can think of. One is the spell: Spell Enhancer (4th level transmutation SpC) will increase the DC by 1.
Spell focus and Greater spell focus of course. Lots of INT doesn't hurt either.
There are other ways to increase DC - but would require building your character around it. There may be others I wouldn't think of.
Good save DC for an 8th level spell (for a 17th level caster)? Well, assuming a starting INT of 18 - it should now be 22 through standard stat raises. An enhancement of +6 is not unlikely by this point - as for Inherent bonuses - they are pretty expensive - maybe +2. Lets say total INT is likely between 28-30. Assuming SF and GSF and the Spell Enhancer - you should be looking at a Save of 30-31 or so.
Enough to trap the Balor most of the time. If you memorize 2 or 3 Greater Planar Bindings that day - you should be fine.
Deceitful Bargaining gives the ability to Bluff a called evil creature to make it more willing to serve (-5 to opposed cha check). Balors have telepathy. Isn't it hard to bluff someone when they can read your mind?
According to the Telepathy ability description in the MM - it is merely a form of speechless communication - not invasive ESP. Should still be bluffable - especially by a master. Any actual ESP spell it casts of course won't penetrate the circle - so all's good.
The deal for the Balor's release from the circle will involve complete servitude with no questions nor spells or powers used against it's new master (You) - as far as I read the spell - the Outsider is bound by the deal it makes for the duration.
But what kind of bluff are you going to give it? "Listen Mr. Balor, there's this disgustingly good paladin masquerading as a Drow priestess. We need to kill him to rid the world of his filth!"
Weird way to play it.
I'm more for convincing the baddie that I'm no better than that Demon Prince who uses him as a slave in the Abyss - and no more tolerant of questions or disobedience. For an "Evil Overlord" (My malconvoker) to want to rid the world of competition (Evil doers) actually isn't much of a stretch at all.
A Planar Binding involving my character would go more like:
Round 1: The Balor appears in the circle - glaring around, "WHO DARES..." ZAP! Touch of idiocy (Made reach through Archmage - targeting CHA with an Assay Spell Resistance attached). My Malconvoker causually blows on his finger. "Me, you worthless dirtbag."
Round 2: The Balor screams his rage "JUST WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU ARE...". My Malconvoker seems unimpressed (Heavy Bluff going on as he secretly pees himself) "I don't like your tone you pathetic scum." ZAP! Touch of Idiocy (Now targeting Wis to lower that will save).
Round 3 and the next few rounds afterwards the Malconvoker continues to debuff the Balor with no explanation at all except casually berating him with an air of superiority.
Several rounds later: "Listen up you lumbering slave, this is how it's going to be. I'm the new S*&^ on the Prime Material plane.
All who oppose me will suffer. You have a choice. I did not bring you here for your Wit, your opinion or your friendship. I brought you here for your obedience, and I will have it. Either now and today, or with your dying breath a long, long time from now whispered between your broken teeth and shattered body.
You may either help me make a drow ***** who displeased me suffer like she has never dreamed, or I can make your last week in existance seem like eternity.
What's it going to be Meatsack?"
The thing is - Evil doesn't always fight good, and Demons aren't treated well by their betters. When you planar bind a demon and abuse him without cause or explanation - and then force him to attack and destroy other evil things - it will remind him of home.
The key is to never let him know that he is actually serving a "Good guy"
Taking a look at the table in the SRD, i would say that bluff is hard to believe and puts him at risk of getting a smite to the grill (+10 to his sense motive).
So take a look at my bluff. Some Evil as crap archmage calls a demon to make his evil competition suffer and die so that they will be the master of all evil on the prime material plane (Insert insane evil laughter here - starting with a BWAHAHA...). I would call that pretty believable.
Now you're probably thinking, "just debuff it!" Now, imagine you are a Balor. You're having a pretty good day raping, pillaging, tormenting the innocent, etc, when BAM you get sucked into some gnome's house. You prepare to slaughter him, but then he starts casting a bunch of spells on you. You start to feel seriously weak and your spidey-senses (spellcraft checks) are telling you that he's casting bestow curse, geas, etc. The Insidious Insight spell was a dead giveaway. Now, he starts trying to convince you that you're on the same side and that you need to team up against the forces of good...
First off - the suggestion that the Balor is tormenting innocents is a big mistake. Not many innocents in the Abyss I'm afraid. The Balor torments EVIL things. Long as they are weaker. In turn it gets tormented as well, by the things that it is weaker then (It may have already been abused by Orcus today...)
Secondly - same side? Nope, you are thinking of the Planar Ally spells. If the Malconvoker used bluff along with Planar Ally to call a Balor - it might be the way you suggest. Planar Binding is a spell of domination. There is no "Alliance" - you are calling a slave.
The Debuffs aren't to convince it you are on the same side - they are to convince it that you are it's new boss and you can and will hurt it at your pleasure. It should fear you just like it fears Demogorgon on a bad day.
That's what the Malconvoker is about. He doesn't summon/call things and say "Hey buddy, let's be friends!" He Summons/calls things and says, "I'm worse than the most evil demon you've ever met - and you can join me or suffer the consequences - which will be painful and terminal. I haven't tortured anything to slow painful death in days - I'm almost hoping you WON'T join me...(Insert pyscopathic eye stare here)"
It is no different than the Balor's relationship with his minions in the Abyss. Do you think that Quasit regularly tortured for fun by the Balor believes the Balor must be of good alignment for torturing him?
Or when the Balor wages war against the Balor of some opposing Demon Prince do you think now that the Quasit might suspect the Balor of secretly being good because he is fighting evil?
Nope - that's everyday life in the Abyss. The Strong dominate the Weak and evil fights evil everyday - all day.
Same thing happens on the Prime Material plane. There's no evil "Secret handshake" - evil serves other evil usually out of fear - and often evil ends up fighting evil. That's because they're evil...
So if you call that Balor into your TRAP and then play nice - now that's something to be suspicious of. When you treat him like a pschopath with a victim - well now, that's something he can relate to.
So, instead of bluffing him, lets just forget the whole bluff check nonsense. All success does is give you a +5 to your opposed roll to dominate him into serving you. Wouldn't it be more expedient to just spend all this effort on that cha check? After all, +8 is much easier to beat than +30. Hold on a second here....
The bluffing is the whole fun of the class though.
I thought the whole point of the Malconvoker is to BS these demons into thinking that you are on the same side?
You definitely want to convince them you are evil. On the same side? Nope, evil is definitely NOT united in D&D. You don't want to convince them you are already pals - but that you should be on the same side - when they join you.
At least that's my take on it.
Expert analysis...
this clears up a lot. i can see that i was thinking of good vs. evil in a strange way. Thanks for helping me understand how to play this!
You could theoretically give them negative levels, but then they'd be much less useful as they take -x to almost everything. :P I don't know there's a good way to do this and then remove them quickly and easily, but if you can find one, do let me know.
Planar Binding wouldn't be something you'd want to be doing in the middle of a time-contraint quest anyhow - Enervation only lasts a maximum of 15 hours, and Planar Binding lasts a day per caster level for the sort of bindings Treantmonk is discussing. If you're willing to spend the spell slots to Enervate a high-cha person, you'd probably want a day to rest and regain spells anyway.
Having 14 days instead of 15 days with your new pet Balor seems like an acceptable enough price.
Planar Binding wouldn't be something you'd want to be doing in the middle of a time-contraint quest anyhow - Enervation only lasts a maximum of 15 hours, and Planar Binding lasts a day per caster level for the sort of bindings Treantmonk is discussing. If you're willing to spend the spell slots to Enervate a high-cha person, you'd probably want a day to rest and regain spells anyway.
Having 14 days instead of 15 days with your new pet Balor seems like an acceptable enough price.
That's an excellent point. For some reason I keep forgetting that Enervation isn't actually permanent. And if I'm reading all these spells right there's absolutely no reason you couldn't throw in a few Fel Draining spells to up the ante too. Balors have plenty of Hit Dice after all... :evillaugh
I have two things to offer.
Necrotic Cyst. It gets you Necrotic Tumor, and that is possibly the best long term control spell in the game.
Next, I have a question: how well would a Master of Shrouds early entry Build fit with a Malconvoker Build?Many of the Prereqs seem to overlap. The main drawback seems to be a massive dose of CL loss...Yikes.
Conjurer 3 (Rapid Summoning, Enhanced Summoning, Focused Specialist)/ Master Specialist 4 / Malconvoker 5 (Fiendish Legion) / Wild Soul 2 (Unseelie) / Paragonistic Apostle 2 (Call of Worlds, Spatial Awareness) / Malconvoker +4
Feats:
1 - Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augmented Summoning
3 - Cloudy Conjuration
5 - Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
6 - G. Spell Focus (Conjuration), Beckon the Frozen
9 - Summon Elemental
10 - Skill Focus (Bluff)
12 - Practiced Spellcaster
15 - Rashemi Elemental Summoning
18 - Nexus Method
New Summons (All Evil):
IV - Aranea, Howler, Young Redcap (MM3), Shadar-Kai (Fiend Folio)
V - Joy Stealer (MM4), Shadow Mastiff
VI - Displacer Beast, Winter Wolf
VII - Annis, Will-O'-Wisp
VIII - Elder Redcap (MM3), Rejkar (MM3).
Shadar-Kai (IV):
HP-3d6+6
AC-18
Attack: Spiked Chain +6 (2d4+3) / Short Bow +6 (1d6)
Sneak Attack +1d6
Hide in Plain Sight
Young Redcap (IV):
HP-4d6+16
AC-15
Attack: Scythe +7 (2d4+6/x4) / Sling +6 (1d6+5)
DR 5/Cold Iron
Power Attack
Joystealer (V):
HP-6d6+18
AC - 19
Attack: Incorporeal Touch +8 (1d4 CHA)
Incorporeal, DR 5/Cold Iron
Elder Redcap (VIII):
HP-12d6+96
AC - 23
Attack: Scythe +15 (2d4+12) / Sling +14 (1d6+9)
DR 10/Cold Iron
Power Attack, Cleave
Rejkar (VIII):
HP-5d8+25
AC - 19
Attack: Gore +9 (1d8+4+1d6 Cold)
Powerful Charge +2d6
DR 5/Magic
SLAs (CL 5):
At Will - Crushing Despair (DC 16), Fabricate.
3/day - Major Image (DC 15).
1/week - Augury.
Special - Heroes' Feast (need 3)
Freezing Gaze (DC 16) - Gaze attack, Hold Monster.
This is confusing me.. in the reserve feat description area in the Complete Mage it says;
"Spells that do not have a descriptor until cast, (such as the summon monster spell), cant be used to gain the primary benefit of a reserve feat."
The Elemental Reserve Feat description practically uses the summon monster spells as its example of what to use for this feat. So how does that work?
Also, is a cleric/Malconvoker build able to use this feat aswell?
PS - The secondary ability of the above feat isn't mentioned in this thread either. You get a +1 competence bonus to your caster level aswell when summoning/casting conjuration spells. = ) I only ready about 6 pages of the thread though so somebody might have already said that. Also sorry if the question above has already been answered previously somewhere.
Thanks
Regarding The Summon Elemental Reserve Feat;
This is confusing me.. in the reserve feat description area in the Complete Mage it says;
"Spells that do not have a descriptor until cast, (such as the summon monster spell), cant be used to gain the primary benefit of a reserve feat."
The Elemental Reserve Feat description practically uses the summon monster spells as its example of what to use for this feat. So how does that work?
Also, is a cleric/Malconvoker build able to use this feat aswell?
PS - The secondary ability of the above feat isn't mentioned in this thread either. You get a +1 competence bonus to your caster level as well when summoning/casting conjuration spells. = ) I only ready about 6 pages of the thread though so somebody might have already said that. Also sorry if the question above has already been answered previously somewhere.
Thanks
Spells have a School and sub-School, some don't have a descriptor. Summoning is a sub-school [fire] is a descriptor.
Summoning spells have no descriptor until cast (IE summon a good creature and its [good]).
Clerics prepare summoning spells, and can take the reserve feat.
Spells have a School and sub-School, some don't have a descriptor. Summoning is a sub-school [fire] is a descriptor.
Summoning spells have no descriptor until cast (IE summon a good creature and its [good]).
Clerics prepare summoning spells, and can take the reserve feat.
Sorry, I've just gotten back into D&D so I am probably missing something, but how does that allow you to use the reserve feat then?
Unless, do you have to prepare spells specifically called good, fire, evil etc? So I just cant have a "Summon Monster IV" spelled prepared it has to be "Summon Monster IV [Fire] or [Neutral] etc?
Sorry, I've just gotten back into D&D so I am probably missing something, but how does that allow you to use the reserve feat then?
Because this particular feat does not require a spell with a descriptor, elemental or otherwise.
Summon Elemental just requires you to have any Conjuration (Summoning) spell 4th level or higher available to cast.
do you have to prepare spells specifically called good, fire, evil etc?
No.
Sorry, I've just gotten back into D&D so I am probably missing something, but how does that allow you to use the reserve feat then?
Unless, do you have to prepare spells specifically called good, fire, evil etc? So I just cant have a "Summon Monster IV" spelled prepared it has to be "Summon Monster IV [Fire] or [Neutral] etc?
Raphael_Maure already pointed this out, but I'll add a little explanation specific to summon monster spells.
Summon monster spells are:
School:Conjuration
Sub-school: (Summoning)
Descriptor: [Varies]
If you summon a good creature the summon monster's descriptor becomes [good]
If you summon a Lawful good creatures it becomes [Lawful][Good]
If you summon a fire elemental it becomes [fire].
The descriptor of a spell can affect your alignment.
You gain some bonuses on different planes based on spell descriptors. Like your [fire] spells may be extended on the plane of fire. So a Summon monster would have double duration if used to summon a [fire] creature.
The spell takes 10 minutes to cast, but lasts for 10 minutes per level.
First you get 2d4 Bearded Devils (CR 5. 2d4 of them ~ 5, so CR 10.)
10 minutes later, 1d4 Chain Devils (CR 6. ~2 of them, so CR 8)
10 minutes later, 1 Bone Devil (CR 9).
All have Maximum HP per hit die, and some other benefits.
So, with fiendish legion, we're getting an average of 17 summons out of this spell, for an ECL of 14 - which doesn't take into consideration that they all have approximately double normal hit points.
(For comparison, Summon Monster 9 gives you Barbed Devils, Bebeliths, or Hezrouns, CR 10/11, so 12/13 when you summon them 2 at a time).
Downside is, it's a 10 minute casting time, so you have to cast it in advance. Upside? It's got a duration measured in hours, even w/o it's auto-extend.
There's also an Abyssal Army version that summons 2d4 Dretches, then 1d4 Babau Demons, then 1 Vrock Demon. Same duration, same max HP. Different CR breakdown (2 9's, ~5 6's, ~10 2's), same ECL: 14.
Here's the other way to break it down:
1 * Summon Monster IX.
-or-
Hellish Horde :
1 * SM VII (Bone),
1 * SM VII (1d4 Chain (SM6))
2 * SM VI (2d4 Bearded (SM 5))
- or -
Abyssal Army :
1 * SM VIII (Vrock)
1 * SM VIII (1d4 Babau (SM 7))
2 * SM IV (2d4 Dretch (SM 3)
So, with fiendish legion, we're getting an average of 17 summons out of this spell, for an ECL of 14 - which doesn't take into consideration that they all have approximately double normal hit points.
Fiendish Legion specifies that it works whenever you cast a Summon Monster spell - so other summoning spells do not apply.
- you get immunity to charms, inquisition domain, (pierce illusions), fast healing for your summons, (another PaAp ability), turn undead, exorcism, bonus augment summoning, energy resistance, very extended summons, plus all your malconvoker goodies.
The guide says that Augment Summoning can be applied to it. As nice as I think that would be, I don't see anything to indicate that it does.
Am I missing something?
Augment Summons applies when you summon with Summon Monster (amongst other things).
Augment Summoning applies to, "Each creature you conjure with any summon spell". The Summon Elemental feat is a supernatural ability though isn't it?
Summon Elemental says it is as if you summoned it with Summon Monster. So... it should apply.
The feat states, "The elemental acts as if summoned by a summon monster spell." So the elemental "appears where you designate and acts immediately, on your turn. It attacks your opponents to the best of its ability. If you can communicate with the creature, you can direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions." It doesn't say anything about the feat counting as a summon spell. It looks like instructions for the performance of the supernatural ability's end product, without which I guess the elemental would just sit around doing whatever elementals do.
I was hoping there was something else beside that part of the feat making Augment Summoning usable...if that is all that the guide is going on I think I'm going to have to give up on my dreams of Augmenting my poor little disposable elemental.
How long would the Binding last, and could it be made a cohort of sorts?
SRD: "Once the requested service is completed, the creature need only so inform you to be instantly sent back whence it came. The creature might later seek revenge. If you assign some open-ended task that the creature cannot complete though its own actions the spell remains in effect for a maximum of one day per caster level, and the creature gains an immediate chance to break free. Note that a clever recipient can subvert some instructions."
Hmm so how about doing this:
You, my Balor servant will return to me on the same day 200years( replace with xxxxxxx at will) from now, and at that moment you will be released from your binding, during the 200 years you will serve me unquestionably and faithfully( needs better wording, to avoid DM circumvention), should I die a natural death you will be released( optional clause ofc)...
Would that work?
The feat states, "The elemental acts as if summoned by a summon monster spell.
This has come up before. Basically my view is that when it says the feat acts as the spell it is referring to mechanics - not the way the elemental acts. However - the feat is definitely unclear on whether "acts" refers to actions or mechanics - and to my knowledge there has been no FAQ, so I see your point and aknowledge that my take on the rules is far from debatable or infallable.
I wrote the guide based on my interpretation of the rules. There may be other rules throughout the guide interpreted differently by you or by your DM. Unfortunately - D&D is not always 100% cut and dry with the rules.
Either way - your Malconvoker should take the feat for the exact same reasons posted in the guide. The difference of AS is pretty small actually since you tend not to use them for direct combat.
As for whether Augment works with Summon Elemental - check with your DM. My DM chose to go with the same interpretation as I did - however, yours may not. In the end - it's their call.
Random build: Shifter Archivist 3/Church Inquisitor 2-3/Paragnostic Apostle 1-2/Sacred Exorcist 1/Moonspeaker 3/Malconvoker 9
- you get immunity to charms, inquisition domain, (pierce illusions), fast healing for your summons, (another PaAp ability), turn undead, exorcism, bonus augment summoning, energy resistance, very extended summons, plus all your malconvoker goodies.
Sounds great. I don't play Eberron (and don't own any of the rules) so I can't really comment beyond that.
Well, I have a question regarding binding the Balor, or its ilk...
How long would the Binding last, and could it be made a cohort of sorts?
SRD: "Once the requested service is completed, the creature need only so inform you to be instantly sent back whence it came. The creature might later seek revenge. If you assign some open-ended task that the creature cannot complete though its own actions the spell remains in effect for a maximum of one day per caster level, and the creature gains an immediate chance to break free. Note that a clever recipient can subvert some instructions."
Hmm so how about doing this:
You, my Balor servant will return to me on the same day 200years( replace with xxxxxxx at will) from now, and at that moment you will be released from your binding, during the 200 years you will serve me unquestionably and faithfully( needs better wording, to avoid DM circumvention), should I die a natural death you will be released( optional clause ofc)...
Would that work?
Planar Binding spells are easily broken through theoretical optimization (Infinite wishes anyone?).
I would agree that by RAW it certainly should be possible.
If I was your DM it would go something like this, "The more you abuse this spell - the more that I will have the Balor look for a loophole in your agreement. So go for it if you want, but do me a favor and have a backup character standing by for when I have that Balor orchistrate your demise..."
And, no, I've never seen a completely airtight agreement drafted for planar binding (you can come close - but there can always be something misinterpreted). Especially when the DM is the judge and jury.
Definitely check with your DM first.
Either way - your Malconvoker should take the feat for the exact same reasons posted in the guide. The difference of AS is pretty small actually since you tend not to use them for direct combat.
Oh, I will definitely be taking the feat still, but I think I'm already pushing the limits of what my DM is willing to accept with my Focused, Rapid Summoning, Conjurer/Malconvoker, and if I wouldn't allow something as a DM, I probably shouldn't ask if I can have it as a PC.
I forgot to mention, thanks for the awesome guide. I had pretty much skimmed right past the Malconvoker when I got the book. Then I saw your guide and decided to take another look at it.
Basicaly it comes down to weather your DM is whacked enuf to allow it :D
Maybe if we tone it down a bit... like bind a succubus to be my witch( ahem, have the B in mind)
Wouldnt be all to OP, and you could gear her up and make for a nice cohort, one thing im wondering tho, would it require me having the leadership feat for it?
Basicaly i find the whole concept of the leadership feat whacked.... you can influence anyone without it anyway... ><
Evocation and ??? and ???
Can we sneak a peek at your in play Focused UA Conjurer/Malconvoker?
One little trick I did notice, not mentioned in the guide, if you take Malconvoker at level 6, then you can take Skill Focus:Bluff as your level 6 feat. This means at malconvoker 3, at 8th level, you can take any feat for which you qualify, getting you summon elemental reserve feat a level earlier than you would otherwise. Minor, but nice.
I have read the first couple of pages (GREAT guide!!)... my question is what schools does a Focused Conjurer give up if Enchantment and Necromancy are useful for the Planar Binding angle?
Evocation and ??? and ???
Can we sneak a peek at your in play Focused UA Conjurer/Malconvoker?
I would give up either Necromancy or Enchantment. My current Malconvoker ditched Necromancy, Evocation and Illusion.
I am playing a Malconvoker in a current game, just hit level 7 (malconvoker 2)(depressing level, no spell level hike, no stat bump, no feat, no class ability). I gave up necromancy, evocation and enchantment/charm. If you're going to focus more on planar binding then you probably don't want to be a focussed specialist and keep enchantment.
One little trick I did notice, not mentioned in the guide, if you take Malconvoker at level 6, then you can take Skill Focus:Bluff as your level 6 feat. This means at malconvoker 3, at 8th level, you can take any feat for which you qualify, getting you summon elemental reserve feat a level earlier than you would otherwise. Minor, but nice.
I would suggest that a Malconvoker should ALWAYS be a focused specialist since 90% of your castings will be conjuration.
Agree with CantripN - nice trick!
I would suggest that a Malconvoker should ALWAYS be a focused specialist since 90% of your castings will be conjuration.
I'd agree, and I gave up enchantment/charm, necromancy and evocation, but I intend to deal more in SM spells than planar bindings. I have maxed bluff and several cha/bluff buffing items, so I can live without enchantment, but if your focus is going to be on planar bindings, you might want to keep enchantment. But that means giving up illusion, which I wasn't willing to do.
Your speech becomes fluent and more believable. You gain a +30 bonus on Bluff checks made to convince another of the truth of your words.
Call me crazy, but wouldn't this be AWESOME with the "deceitful bargaining" malconvoker class ability?
Thanks for any advice!
Edit: I had thought the archivist was in the dmg for some reason. Dunno why <.< So that rules the archivist out.
Edit again: Talked with my DM. He said he would let me use the variants from UA, and ALL of the complete books. So that means the following build is a possiblity...
Conjurer (UA variants: Rapid summon, Enhanced Summon) 10/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialist 4/Paragnostic Apostle 1
Augmented summoning, spell focus, cloudy conjuration, and improved init. Focused specialist conj, rapid summoning, and enhanced summoning. I'm giving up necr, enchantment, and evoc.
Any advice? I also need one more feat, maybe metamagic.
one thing i did when i first made him before i saw this guide is gave him the cosmopolitan feat from forgotten realms which makes it a class skill no matter what leaving me a bunch of skills still for KNOW. arcana, spellcraft ...etc and you get a permanent + 2 in bluff which is the most useful part in my opinion
also i was looking at the archmage for later on and was wondering how it would work if you took things like greater planar binding as a spell like ability
would that work?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/monstrousCentipede.htm
You'll note that they've taken into account the 3 Int in the stat block, yet they list "--" for Feats, even for the Huge+ versions with multiple Hit Dice.
This leads me to believe that the RAW would indicate that Fiendish Vermin do not garner feats based upon hit dice, despite their 3 Intelligence.
Cheers,
Pryor
Looks like one could make a strong argument for Fiendish vermin to have feats after all.
This will be a boon to my summoner. Excellent.
Cheers,
Pryor
Pg 316: (regarding vermin type)
Skill points equal to (2 + Int modifier, minimum 1) per Hit Die with quadruple skill points for the first hit die, if the vermin has an intellegence score. However, most vermin are mindless and gain no skill points or feats.
Pg 293: (regarding adding a template)
Since most templates do not change the number of hit dice a creature has, a template will not change the number of feats a creature has. Some templates grant one or more bonus feats.
Pg 296: (regarding Vermin type)
Vermin have average combat ability and hit points and poor saving throws, but are often mindless and therefore have immunity to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). Use this type for giant bugs and other mindless invertebrates. If your creature has an Intelligence score and you've considered the vermin type, it's probably a magical beast or an aberration instead.
The first quote makes it crystal clear why mindless creatures alone do not have skills or feats. A template that grants the mindless creature any Int score should eliminate the "mindless" trait by principle (though I do not think it is specifically covered in the rules) - and therefore the suppressed Feats and skills should then instead follow "normal" progression.
However, the second quote would indicate that a template will not normally add feats. However, the text clearly indicates that the reason would be that "normal" feat progression is unchanged with a template that does not add HD. The "mindless" trait is a special condition of the vermin type - where Feats are not gained in the "normal" rate - it would not be the addition of the template "per-se" that means a Fiendish Centipede should get feats, but instead the change of the Vermin type to Magical beast type.
The third quote explains the "mindless" condition. It gives certain advantages and disadvantages to the vermin. It also makes it clear that the mindless condition is the distinction between a vermin and a magical beast.
I remain reasonably convinced that a Fiendish Template on vermin would remove the "mindless" condition (by changing Int 0 to Int 3), and that the "mindless" condition is the only reason they do not have feats and skills.
I believe the "fiendish" templates added by SRD was for the purpose of making it easier for summoners to have the templated stats - and the removal of the mindless conditions effect on Feats/Skills was simply missed. This mistake would be extremely easy to make!
After all, by simply applying the template - skills and feats remain empty. Only by referring to why those feats/skills do not exist do we determine that the reasoning no longer holds when the Int is raised to 3.
However, as always when the rules are murky - check with your DM and go with their interpretation.
I'm posting his full build progression on my blog.
I'm trying to figure out what other free fifth level spell to take at level 10. I have SMV, Lesser Planar Binding, Hold Monster, and Telekinesis. I gave up Evocation, Necromancy, and Illusion. Suggestions? I'm getting set to do my first planar binding...
I'd take Cloudkill but all our opponents are giants who will always save. I have the acid reserve feat, but find I don't need it enough to bother with a 5th level slot to hold it.
I got to the level where I'm Planar Binding and am crawling all the sourcebooks as usual. A lot of the monsters in FCI are generally undesirable for general use because they have abilities that cause everyone who sees them to freak out, but there are some nice ones.
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Armanite - 9 HD, CR7, CHA 13 - centaurey, unexceptional.
Bar-Lgura - 6 HD, CR5, CHA 12 - orangutangey, spell-likes, abduction. Has a combat and spell-like edge over the bearded devil and is a good choice for Lesser Planar Binding. Also, can teleport party members around all day (one at a time).
Broodswarm - swarm, don't think it's eligible.
Bulezau - 10 HD, CR8, CHA 10 - goat-head heavy infantry, spell-likes - it's good for its HD but the break points of the Planar Binding spells make it problematic.
Chasme - 9 HD, CR10, CHA 14 - flylike, great spell-likes, several auras are bad for all around though.
Dybbuk - takes over corpses, bleh.
Ekolid - ant that drives everyone around crazy, not good.
Goristro - too high (24 HD).
Guecubu - (4 HD, CR7, CHA 17) - a great scout and infiltrator. Besides being invisible and flying, it can possess people and use telekinesis/telepathy. As with lots of these you'll need to tell them what abilities not to use on you, but if you want to have it possess some guard who goes in and causes a hellacious disturbance, it's cool.
Lilitu - 14 HD, CR12, CHA 30 - an uber succubus. If you could pull off the CHA check it would be like having a succubus++!
Mane - too low (1 HD)
Molydeus - 19 HD, CR19, CHA 28 - a super badass at the high end. Comparable to the balor.
Nabassu - gargoyle with level drain gaze attack that probably affects everyone.
Rutterkin - a little low (5 HD, CR 3).
Sibriex - again, drives everyone around crazy.
Yochlol - 10 HD, CR8, CHA 20 - good infiltrators, but binding one may **** off Lolth.
You know, Juiblex himself is only 21 HD. If you got some other boost you could bind him! He only has a CHA of 18. I suspect this would end poorly but it would be entertaining while it lasted.
Best Feats:
The Demon Mastery feat gives +2 on CHA checks for bindings and +1 CL when summoning demons. You can follow that up with Extract Demonic Essence to get the XP for crafting items.
Hey, so do you think you could bind demon lord aspects, like those from the FC1 Web Enhancement? They're mostly 8-10 HD which puts them in a bad middle ground between LPB and PB but some of them are pretty cool.
I'm Monster Manual Impared (MM 1 only) - but using that - I've decided that the Barghest is a good planar bind (for lesser).
The Barghest has 6HD when called (thus satisfying the spell requirement) - but can be fed corpses to bring it up to 9 HD (and greater barghest standing).
The rage at will ability can be used to buff your summons - and the greater barghest gets invisibility sphere at will.
They can take goblin or wolf form - allowing for city travel (I'm picking up a hat of disguise for mine to wear to look like a gnome). They are decent in combat and have another few handy SLA's.
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Abishai -
White (4 HD, CR4, CHA 12)
Black (5 HD, CR5, CHA 13)
Green (6 HD, CR6, CHA 14) - LPB sweet spot. It does fly, but otherwise isn't as good as the bearded devil. Has regeneration, which the steel and bearded devils don't, which may make it better for the long haul if it's coming along on an adventure.
Blue (7 HD, CR7, CHA 15)
Red (8 HD, CR8, CHA 16)
Amnizu (9 HD, CR7, CHA 16) - Low for PB. Some quickened fireballs and a penchant for paperwork.
Assassin Devil (14 HD, CR11, CHA 17) - Super sneaky.
Ayperobos Swarm - Don't think a swarm would count. How do you treat with one?
Harvester Devil (9 HD, CR7, CHA 22) - tempters. Not much application.
Hellfire Engine - construct, not summonable
Kalabon - too low (1 HD)
Legion Devil - too low (3 HD)
Malebranche (16 HD, CR 14, CHA 10) - nice low CHA and it kicks ass. Not subtle, just fighting.
Narzugon (7 HD, CR5, CHA 13) - right on the bad side of the LPB border.
Nupperibo - too low (2 HD).
Orthon (7 HD, CR8, CHA 11) - very nice, too bad it's 1 HD too much for LPB.
Paeliryon (18 HD, CR18, CHA 21) - good! Not quite as butch as a balor but easier to get and loads of spell-likes.
Pain Devil (8 HD, CR7, CHA 13) - bad for its bracket.
Pleasure Devil (12 HD, CR11, CHA 29) - tough to get because of the CHA. But Trap the Soul at this level's kinda nice.
Spined Devil - too low (3 HD).
Steel Devil (6 HD, CR6, CHA 14) - A little butcher than the bearded devil. Solid tank for LPB.
Xerfilstyx (15 HD, CR15, CHA 21) - just on the bad side of the PB/GPB split, but these are pretty nice and have all kinds of powers - blood drain, breath weapon, fear aura, improved grab, toss, insanity, pw: blind, cone of cold, ice storm, legend lore... Very good in aquatic locales.
None of the feats are too tasty, speaking from a good wizard conjurer POV.
The archdevil aspects are all way tougher than the demon lord aspects; no summoning any of these!
I've decided that the Barghest is a good planar bind (for lesser).
Looks good - in fact, goblins are considered a bit of a joke in Pathfinder so it'd be quite surprisingly butch. And I would wager offering corpses to eat, which permanently makes it Greater, is a nice bribe to sweeten the CHA check.
The one rough part is "humanoid" corpses - giants don't count I think, and 8-9 HD humanoids are hard to come by.
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Bladeling (1 HD, CR1, CHA 10) - too low unless you happen to know a named one. Try calling my old 9th level bladeling from our Sigil campaign, you'll get your money's worth!
Cervidal Guardinal (4 HD, CR3, CHA 16) - too low
Lupinal Guardinal (8 HD, CR5, CHA 15) - low for the normal PB.
Demons:
Abyssal Maw (2 HD, CR2, CHA 8) - too low
Abyssal Skulker (2 HD, CR2, CHA 9) - too low
Abyssal Ravager (3 HD, CR5, CHA 8) - too low
Jovoc (4 HD, CR5, CHA 7) - too low
Palrethee (8 HD, CR8, CHA 11) - too low for PB
Zovvut (10 HD, CR9, CHA 14) - again, too low to be a good use of PB. Now I understand why I never use the MMII.
Jarilith (10 HD, CR13, CHA 14) - Hmm, only 10 HD but anything with a CR higher than its HD merits looking at. It's definitely more butch on the raw killing than a barbed devil, but without any spell-likes. It's also got hellacious defense (AC 32, DR 30/+3, SR 25).
Kelvezu (12 HD, CR18, CHA 16) - ooo, spot on for early Planar Binding before you can go to 14 HD with it. A good assassin option. I don't buy the CR 18 though; it's a two-weapon fighter without high BAB. But it's better than the assassin devil.
Devils:
Advespa (4 HD, CR3, CHA 10) - too low
Amnizu (9 HD, CR7, CHA 10) - bad placement
Malebranche (16 HD, CR9, CHA 10) - uhhh.... OK, this is also in Fiendish Codex 2, slightly different, with a CR of 14. But looking at the two I'm not sure what's 5 CRs worse about this one. Its AC is a lot worse, attacks just slightly worse, and DR better.
Dune Stalker (6 HD, CR9, CHA 11) - Ah, a good one for LPB. Approximate to the barghest, with a little more DR and SR 20. Its spell-likes, shout and kiss of death, will be resisted by anything at this level. It can track... I'd put it in a tossup with the green abishai.
Ether Scarab (1 HD) - unintelligent. Although it would almost be useful as a move-the-party-back-and-forth-between-ethereal-and-Prime-at-will item.
Ethereal Slayer (16 HD, CR12, CHA 9) - sucks.
Glimmerskin (12 HD, CR8, CHA 16) - interesting. It's basically a outsider that acts as a boosting cloak. It'll die if away from the positive energy plane more than 7 hours, but it basically gives its "host" fast healing 5, +4 attack bonus, +2 AC, cleave/great cleave/power attack/sunder. A little weak for the level, but just might come in handy.
Durzagon (5 HD, CR4, CHA 8) - oh look, gay derro. No thanks.
Marrash (7 HD, CR5, CHA 8) - right on the bad side of the split, and not really comparable to the better LPBs.
Chaond, Zenythri - more races than monsters, summon one if you know one.
Rukarazyll (12 HD, CR14, CHA 18) - nah, it's nicely weird but a hezrou or whatever is 100% better.
Sylph (3 HD, CR5, CHA 17) - only if you're a lonely halfling looking for "company."
Vaporighu (10 HD, CR9, CHA 10) - again, better off with other mainstream options.
Yugoloths:
Marraenoloth (10 HD, CR10, CHA 10) - suck.
Arcanaloth (12 HD, CR 17, CHA 17) - now that's a respectable HD/CR spread! It casts spells as a 12th level sorcerer. Also a universal translator. Sign me up!
Yagnoloth (10 HD, CR 10, CHA 16) - way better than the marraenloth but that's not saying much. Pass.
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Astral Stalker (12 HD, CR12, CHA 20) - Predator copycat beefcake. Better ways to spend a PB.
Arrow Demon (10 HD, CR7, CHA 12) - Uberarcher. Probably low for PB.
Sorrowsworn Demon (18 HD, CR17, CHA 21) - on the face of it not as good as a pit fiend, but has interesting debuffs with real high Will saves. And can read minds.
Justicator (17 HD, CR13, CHA 12) - may be easy to convince if you're fighting chaos. But sucks.
Lumi - more of a race than a monster. Is "floating head" really a special ability?
Rakshasa, Ak'chazar (17 HD, CR15, CHA 22) - 12th level sorcerer with lots of undead creaty goodness. Use with GPB if you need an undead army on short notice.
Rakshasa, Naztharune (11 HD, CR11, CHA 15) - another high level thief/assassin. Not as good as the Kelvezu demon for that.
Rejkar (5 HD, CR5, CHA 15) - smart ice goats. Really?
Trilloch (8 HD, CR8, CHA 18) - rage bug. Bah.
Visilight (5 HD, CR5, CHA 14) - don't hate me because I'm pretty, and don't bother with these.
Canoloth Yugoloth (6 HD, CR5, CHA 12) - perfect for LPB, and you get to say "tongue +11!" Not much in the way of other abilities, but one of the most butch LPBs.
Mezzoloth Yugoloth (10 HD, CR6, CHA 14) - a bad HD/CR combo there.
Nycaloth Yugoloth (14 HD, CR10, CHA 16) - Not as good as the nalfeshnee or gelugon.
Ultroloth Yugoloth (18 HD, CR13, CHA 19) - right in there with other lower-CHA GPB options - I'd call it equivalent to the death slaad. Symbol of Death!
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Concordant Killer (HD 19, CR19, CHA 24) - not as butch as a balor but is Neutral, which may be useful in some situations.
Deathdrinker Demon - too big.
Kastighur Demon (HD 15, CR11, CHA 8) - well, it's an easy bind, that's for sure. But it's one HD over PB and is meat for any GPB.
Nashrou Demon (HD 4, CR2, CHA 8) - too low
Whisper Demon (HD 12, CR9, CHA 20) - it's incorporeal, which is nice. It drives everyone in 60' nuts, which is probably not although has its uses. I'm thinking about a bunch of giant encampments in our current campaign... They kill themselves then rise as allips...
Dwarf Ancestor (HD 5, CR6, CHA 14) - ok for a LPB brick, depends a lot on its DR 10/adamant though, which at level 10 isn't much.
Justice Archon (HD 6, CR6, CHA 14) - nice. Justice strike does the opponent's damage to them. Has super maxed hit points for this HD - 63 hp!
Lolth-touched - OK, this triggers my cheese alert. The example is a Lolth-touched bebilith, which doesn't have higher HD than a normal bebilith, just a CR+1 in exchange for STR/DEX +6 and some junk. Hmmm, templates are the binder's friend.
Windblades: nah.
Wrackspawn: too low
Yugoloth, Corruptor of Fate - 7 HD, right over the LPB line. That's sad cause it would be a great debuff buddy.
Yugoloth, Voor (5 HD, CR4, Cha 7) - 6 good attacks. With only 37 hp and DR 5 they don't stay crunchy in milk though. A good SMIV, but not really a good LPB.
Guecubu - too low (4 HD).
I think still a good choice for LPB. It can be bound to use "ally" form possession giving you a +4 profane bonus to the attribute of your choice (Int or Cha?) - on top of that it can use telekinisis, telepathy etc. The 4HD will probably be a non factor.
If you need a scout - it has natural invisibility and perfect flight.
However - this is a risky bind. You will need to stipulate in the contract that it can only use the "ally" form of possession, and may communicate telepathically, but cannot use its detect thoughts ability on you.
Bar-Lgura - 6 HD, CR5, CHA 12 - orangutangey, spell-likes, abduction. Has a combat and spell-like edge over the bearded devil and is a good choice for Lesser Planar Binding.
Agreed. Note that its "abduction" ability will basically give your party unlimited greater teleport (though they will need to be teleported in pairs). Unlimited dispel magic has its uses as well though the CL isn't great.
Green (6 HD, CR6, CHA 14) - LPB sweet spot. It does fly, but otherwise isn't as good as the bearded devil. Has regeneration, which the steel and bearded devils don't, which may make it better for the long haul.
I think if you plan for your LPB to do melee - regeneration or as least Fast Healing is highly desirable as they are all pretty squishy. These are an excellent choice - because in addition to pretty good combat stats - they fly as well.
Justice Archon (HD 6, CR6, CHA 14) - nice. Justice strike does the opponent's damage to them. Has super maxed hit points for this HD - 63 hp!
Watch your alignment (and the party cleric) if you start forcing Archons into servitude!
Also Check out from Fiend Folio:
Half-Troll Barbazu: Basically a Half-troll/Half-bearded devil. Very solid combatant with 6 HD and Fast Healing 5. Good tank, but low on special movement/abilities.
Red Etherguant: Super squishy (5 HD, +1 con bonus) but casts as a 9th level wizard. Once again - casts as a 9th level wizard. It gets some other stuff too (though DC's are terrible), mainly, you want to concentrate on the spellcasting (and layering defenses).
If you need a scout - it has natural invisibility and perfect flight.
However - this is a risky bind. You will need to stipulate in the contract that it can only use the "ally" form of possession, and may communicate telepathically, but cannot use its detect thoughts ability on you.
A good point - actually, why ally only? If you're looking for a scout/infiltrator then riding in a bad guy is optimal. I didn't read this guy carefully, it's quite good.
Great spot on the ethergaunt; I hadn't gotten to the FF yet.
On the archons and whatnot - I'm not really sure about your reasoning. PB is even a "good" spell when you call a good creature. I think it's all about how you treat 'em once they're there. "Hey man, hate to bug you, some CE types need smiting, want to help? You know you want to! (CHA check)" Now of course if you curse them and threaten them with imp-**** it's different.
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Arcadian Avenger (8 HD, CR6, CHA 12) - a great SM but hits the bad breakpoint for PB.
Dalmosh (26 HD) - too big.
Demon:
Adaru (13 HD, CR10, CHA 18) - limited millipede. Limited millipede. That has pleasing alliteration. Say it with me now. Limited millipede.
Carnage Demon (3 HD) - lamest use of a good name.
Draudnu (14 HD, CR 10, CHA 17) - keep it away from you and yours, but a 60'r aura of Will DC 20 or be permanently sickened is nice. And immobilization attacks. Not really all that great but those two tricks are clever.
Gadacro (4 HD, CR3, CHA 12) - although a smidge low, these are among my favorite SM4s. With Flyby, Sneak Attack, and Eyethief they can blind many opponents, and with Sudden Escape and Mirror Image they're hard to hurt. I use them a lot and having them around more permanently would be nice.
Solamith (11 HD, CR8, CHA 8) - A little low for PB, but they are essentially an infinite 4d6 fireball machine. Versus an orcish army - awwwwww yeah. Otherwise, probably not.
Devil:
Gulthir (6 HD, CR6, CHA 18) - Has a very nice trick, which is swallowing Medium or smaller foes, vomiting them out, and they're Dominated. And can digest evil outsiders. Also, spell-likes (ray of enfeeb, scare x5). A nice possibility for a LPB.
Remmanon (18 HD, CR15, CHA 25) - hrm. Not all that good, despite a Will DC 26 Confusion aura. You, sir, are no pit fiend.
Stitched Devil (8 HD, CR9, CHA 17) - Nah.
Ember Guard (13 HD, CR13, CHA 9) - an easy bind, but just a brute, there's much better. Although there's something to be said for a quick low-risk bind to throw a big tank in I guess.
Illurien (20 HD, CR15, CHA 21) - So she's a collector of information and a keeper of secrets, but if you bind her there's nothing in her writeup giving her specific abilities to tell you stuff besides +36 Kno checks.
Man, the MMV. I just read a whole book and thought "you know - I don't like a single one of these monsters."
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Artaaglith (5 HD, CR6, CHA 13) - servants of Orcus that make good mini undead army generators. Desecrate, animate dead, and casting as a 5th level evil cleric with Evil and Undeath domains. That's a quick 20 HD of undead army for ya.
Ghost (template) - they're outsiders so you can bind them; they're incorporal but can't attack. Cheezy use would be on something where you just want the spell-likes anyway. For Malconvokers they put the "tempt" in "template!"
I mean - reviewing even the Fiendish template, it reads "Fiendish is an inherited template that can be added to any corporeal
aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical
beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or
vermin of nongood alignment (referred to
hereafter as the base creature)." So really you can planar bind about anything. Fiendish dragon please. Or find an aberration you really like and bind a fiendish one of those. NO LIMITS!!!!
Having said that I'd feel bad about doing it.
Monsters to Planar Bind:
As you may have noticed I'm ignoring elementals. Why? Because this is enough work!!!
Midgard Dwarf - prolly a bad idea cause they'll curse you with their infinite-range curse.
Genie, Qorrashi (7 HD) - right out of LPB range.
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Marruspawn Abomination (20 HD, CR19, CHA 25) - the 300 hp and AC 43 caught my eye. Its howls 'flesh to stone' everyone in 30' (Fort DC 27). It can cast 3 Summon Monster IXes. And quickened flesh to salts. It has fast healing 15. It ended a civilization. I declare it good - even maybe balor good.
Glass Mephit (3 HD) - too low.
Sulfur Mephit - same deal.
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Scyllan (16 HD, CR 13, CHA 6) - well, it's a Huge auto-bind. Use it against a navy.
Yugoloth, Echinoloth (8 HD, CR8, CHA 11) - low for a PB and too high for a LPB. Pass.
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Aoa Droplet (3 HD) - reflective SR and dispelling touch. I think of this as more of a magic item than a monster - something to SMIV as needed but not really to bind.
Aoa Sphere (13 HD) - Like the droplet but bigger.
Bacchae (2 HD) - Only if you swing that way.
Canomorph, Haraknin (6 HD, CR5, CHA 4) - were-hellhound. Not as cool as other LPBs.
Canomorph, Shadrakul (10 HD, CR11, CHA 10) - were-shadow mastiff. Suffers from being a low PB.
Canomorph, Vultivor (8 HD, CR9, CHA 12) - were-vorr. Suffers even more.
Demodand, Farastu (11 HD, CR11, CHA 16) - fighting and minor spell-likes.
Demodand, Kelubar (13 HD, CR13, CHA 18) - Same deal, not competitive IMO.
Demodand, Shator (15 HD, CR16, CHA 21) - Hm. better defenses than the Nalfeshnee, but way worse spell-likes. Casts as an 8th level sorcerer so you do get some more variety/staying power. Maybe if you'll get a kick out of calling it "Shaggy."
Demon, Alkilith (11 HD, CR14, CHA 15) - an easy PB. A little weak, but can turn into a cloudkill. Your own permanent intelligent one-person cloudkill along might be nice. Loads of spell-likes too including at-will hold monster and wall of ice. Caution, its acid will hurt precious magic items your opponents use.
Demon, Klurichir (20 HD, CR25, CHA 23) - Mother pusbucket! Ok, so their flavor text says they give balors nightmares. Looking at the stats I'm not sure that balors are totally their *****es, but it's certainly a slightly better GPB. The spell-likes are remarkable and is 10th level sorcerer to boot. Did I mention "vorpal pincers?" And the sad thing is they're 3 CHA points easier to bind than a balor.
Demon, Maurezhi (5 HD, CR9, CHA 17) - nice CR! It's kinda like a ghoul version of a barghest; advances in the same way, and has paralysis. Animate dead, hold person, invis at will. I declare it better than a barghest.
Demon, Myrmyxicus (18 HD, CR21, CHA 21) - another good GPB - this one has only a couple spell-likes, it's just about raw ass-kicking in spades. 7 attacks with +3 unholy scythes.
Demon, Skulvyn (4 HD, CR4, CHA 11) - sucks, I don't even SM them.
Demon, Wastrilith (15 HD, CR17, CHA 19) - it can break out of summons, but not out of bindings. Best in the water. Lots of spell-likes including 3 symbols, blasphemy at will, SMIX (aquatic) 3/day... But it's 1 HD too much for PB. Alas.
Monadic Deva (10 HD, CR12, CHA 19) - 3 raise deads. But low HD for PB.
Movanic Deva (6 HD, CR9, CHA 18) - Pretty good, loads of spell-likes including one Raise Dead!
Paeliryon Demon (18 HD, CR22, CHA 21) - CR 22, now them's big words. Beefwise it's not anywhere in the balor neighborhood, but it's all about the spell-likes. Let's see. dictum, dispel good, forbiddance, greater command, implosion, imprisonment, soul bind, word of recall, symbol, meteor swarm, blasphemy... Well, that's a respectable spread, and it's 5 CHA lighter than the balor. It has Quicken Spell-Like Ability but it doesn't say which one. Definitely a worthy choice if you need more magic than raw power.
Xerfilstyx Demon (15 HD, CR18, CHA 19) - Hmmm, it's nice but bad placement, 1 HD too much for PB.
Formian, Armadon (8 HD, CR8, CHA 11) - meh. Bity bug.
Formian, Observer (9 HD, CR11, CHA 17) - charm monster at will DC15.
Formian, Winged Warrior (6 HD, CR6, CHA 11) - flying fighter, not worthy of a LPB.
Half-Troll Barbazu - someone mentioned this, but it's type Giant (extraplanar) - not bindable.
Bloodbag Imp (4 HD, CR3, CHA 13) - well, ok, you could have it around and after every battle, suckle from it until everyone's fully healed. Don't expect anyone to take you up on it; I tried with my current party and they declared "death first!"
Euphoric Imp (4 HD, CR3, CHA 13) - yay, heroin imp.
Filth Imp (2 HD) - too low.
Kaorti (2 HD) - too low. An OK summon though.
Keeper (4 HD, CR7, CHA 6) - nah.
Malephant (8 HD, CR10, CHA 15) - nice... blade barrier, baleful polymorph, forgetfulness gas. The problem is the CR, too high for LPB.
Kalareem Nerra (3 HD) - too low for LPB, but one of my fave SMIIIs.
Sillit Nerra (7 HD) - too high.
Varoot Nerra (1 HD) - too low.
Planetouched - more races than monsters, so maybe if you have the names of individuals.
Aurumach Rilmani (16 HD, CR17, CHA 26) - OK, good spell-likes, but they're in the gap.
Cuprilach Rilmani (12 HD, CR12, CHA 23) - real high CHA. Pretty competitive with other "roguey" PB options (assassin devils et al.) Minor spell-likes.
Ferrumach Rilmani (8 HD, CR9, CHA 20) - right on the bad side of the LPB line.
Mud Slaad (6 HD, CR6, CHA 8) - fast healing makes it good for the long haul, but it doesn't *do* much.
Steel Predator (12 HD, CR 13, CHA 12) - much less than a glabrezu.
Yugoloth, Piscoloth (9 HD, CR9, CHA 14) - bad placement.
Yugoloth, Skeroloth (4 HD, CR3, CHA 11) - too low.
Whew!
Monsters to Planar Bind:
Achaierai (6 HD, CR5, CHA 16) - spot on HD for LPB. But just melee without a lot of staying ower. Summon si! Bind no!
Angel, Astral Deva (12 HD, CR14, CHA 20) - lots of nice spell-likes and good meleeing too.
Angel, Planetar (14 HD, CR 16, CHA 22) - like the astral deva but better. Earthquake!!! Hellacious L17 priest spellcasting! Now, I know you're a malconvoker. But PB is a good spell if you summon a good creature! You can't really geas and curse and dominate it, but you can say "please sir?" and make your CHA check!
Angel, Solar (22 HD) - too high.
Lantern Archon (1 HD) - too low.
Hound Archon (6 HD, CR4, CHA 12) - nah, sux
Trumpet Archon (12 HD, CR14, CHA 16) - like an astral deva - but also L14 priest spellcasting!
Arrowhawk - no.
Azer (2 HD) - too low.
Barghest (6 HD, CR4, CHA 14) - Decent for LPB, an OK fighter and a charm monster. But if you can arrange to get it to eat some 7/8/9 HD humanoids, it'll grow! Then it's boss. Getting 7/8/9 HD humanoids can be tough though, pretty much peoples w/class level only. If you can though, that should be a huge bonus to your CHA check.
Greater Barghest (9 HD, CR5, CHA 18) - mass bull's strength and mass enlarge are nice. Never ever spend a PB on this though. But if you can beef up a LPB - awesome!
Abyssal Greater Basilisk (18 HD, CR12, CHA 15) - What!?! A pit fiend flosses with these *****es.
Chaos Beast (8 HD, CR7, CHA 10) - though the corporeal instability is cute, there's not a lot of application here.
Couatl (9 HD, CR10, CHA 17) - casts as a 9th level sorcerer and has psionics, so you know it's unbalanced. But that's a hard spot inside the LPB/PB split.
Demon, Babau (7 HD, CR6, CHA 16) - one above the LPB marker, so bah.
Demon, Balor (20 HD, CR20, CHA 26) - the GPB benchmark. There may be better ones, but you can't go wrong with it. Implosion! Insanity! Kill!
Demon, Bebilith (12 HD, CR10, CHA 13) - mmm, just a meleer. Not worth it.
Demon, Dretch (2 HD) - too low.
Demon, Glabrezu (12 HD, CR13, CHA 20) - the PB non-Mal8 benchmark. Kicks ass, good spell-likes. Can grant a wish, though usually that comes with strings - it's unclear to me whether binding lets you "skip to the end" on that.
Demon, Hezrou (10 HD, CR11, CHA 18) - less than a glabrezu.
Demon, Marilith (16 HD, CR17, CHA 24) - they are good at killin'! Normally I'd say don't do it for a GPB, but my old bladeling character had a marilith girlfiend he thinks fondly of... If "banged in the tavern bathroom" means girlfriend in Abyssal, which I'm pretty sure it does...
Demon, Nalfeshnee (14 HD, CR14, CHA 20) - The PB+Mal8 benchmark. Smite, spell-likes including at will feeblemind, greater dispel, slow, and plain old killing.
Demon, Quasit (3 HD) - too low.
Demon, Succubus (6 HD, CR7, CHA 26) - if you can hack the CHA, they're hot hot hot! At will charm monster, suggestion.
Demon, Vrock (10 HD, CR9, CHA 16) - not all that good.
Barbed Devil (12 HD, CR11, CHA 18) - good fighter, some spell-likes. Not all that competitive at this level.
Bearded Devil (6 HD, CR5, CHA 10) - Decent tank for LPB. Easy to bind!
Bone Devil (10 HD, CR9, CHA 14) - a little low for PB.
Chain Devil (8 HD, CR6, CHA 12) - real low for PB.
Erinyes (9 HD, CR8, CHA 20) - low for PB.
Hellcat (9 HD, CR7, CHA 10) - even lower for PB.
Horned Devil (15 HD, CR16, CHA 22) - great fighters. one HD above PB boundary, which sux.
Ice Devil (14 HD, CR13, CHA 20) - it ***** slow people, has a fear aura, cone of cold and ice storm at will. This is the other PB+Mal8 standard.
Imp (3 HD) - too low.
Lemure (2 HD) - too retarded.
Pit Fiend (18 HD, CR20, CHA 26) - the GPB standard. Awesome spell-likes - maybe a wish even! And super asskicking.
Bralani Eladrin (6 HD, CR6, CHA 14) - decent LPB combatant.
Ghaele Eladrin (10 HD, CR13, CHA 16) - 14th level clerics! Plus spell-likes and ongoing lesser globe of invulerability.
Fiendish creature - it's worth mentioning that "fiendish" can be put on any aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant or vermin. And then it's an evil outsider and bindable. So LPB - fiendish blue dragon wyrmling!
Formian Worker (1 HD) - too low.
Formian Warrior (4 HD) - too low.
Formian Taskmaster (6 HD, CR7, CHA 19) - dominate monster at will!
Formian Myrmarch (12 HD, CR10, CHA 17) - fast healing, at will charm monster, clairaud/clairivoyance - not really enough for PB.
Formian Queen (20 HD, CR17, CHA 21) - a 17th level sorcerer that you get to carry.
Djinni (7 HD, CR5, CHA 15) - if you can arrange for a noble djinn, you get 3 wishes!
Efreeti (10 HD, CR8, CHA 15) - butcher, and 3 wishes!
Janni (6 HD, CR4, CHA 13) - indifferent LPB.
Avoral Guardinal (7 HD, CR9, CHA 16) - decent, but righ ton the bad side of LPB.
Leonal Guardinal (12 HD, CR12, CHA 15) - butch, plus permanent lesser globe and at will walls of force.
Hell Hound (4 HD) - too low.
Nessian Warhound (12 HD, CR9, CHA 6) - well, easy to bind. Not much use except some combat.
Howler (6 HD, CR3, CHA 8) - drive your party nuts! Literally!
Lillend (7 HD, CR7, CHA 18) - 6th level bard. And one off LPB.
Mephits (3 HD) - too low.
Night Hag (8 HD, CR9, CHA 12) - nah. Some spell-likes but nothing to spend a PB on.
Nightmare (6 HD, CR5, CHA 12) - ethereal steed!
Planetouched - bind a tiefling buddy!
Rakshasa (7 HD, CR10, CHA 17) - 7th level sorcerer plus more. Right on the bad side of LPB.
Rast (4 HD) - too low.
Ravid (3 HD) - too low.
Salamander (4, 9, and 15 HD versions) - no.
Shadow Mastiff (4 HD) - too low.
Red Slaad (7 HD) - wrong side of line.
Blue Slaad (8 HD, CR8, CHA 10) - closer
Green Slaad (9 HD) - cloooser, good spell-likes
Gray Slaad (10 HD, CR10, CHA 14) - ok, this one's decent, tough, good spell likes - invis, fly, chaos hammer at will.
Death Slaad (15 HD, CR13, CHA 18) - A good 'un. Bad breakpoint, but good for an easy GPB. Implosion!
Titan (20 HD, CR21, CHA 24) - nice, lots of spell-likes.
Tojanida (various) - no.
Triton - too low.
Vargouille - too low.
Xill (5 HD, CR6, CHA 11) - many attacks, bot not much else to recommend it.
Xorn - no.
Yeth Hound (3 HD) - too low.
Its not a very creative one but rock solid in my mind.
We are using all the source books plus FR:
Please keep in mind, that our DM is rather strict (sane?!). Meaning:
No dips!
If you want a second prestige class, you better have a very very very good "in game" reason!
DMM is allowed but if you overdo it (i.e. taking multiple Extra Turnings to persist multiples buffs) our DM brings on a "dispel magic" specialist caster and casts something (he himself, not the NPC) I like to call "Surge of Fortune Mk. II (DM Version)."
Nightsticks are nice... FOR TURNING UNDEAD YOU MISERABLE META-GAMER!
The build:
Attributes: Wis -> Con -> Str -> Cha -> Int -> Cha
Domains: Summoner and War (Summoner substituted for Animal)
Deity: Uthgar (the babarian style fits with malkon voker I think)
01 Cleric Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, WF (battleaxe)
02 Cleric
03 Cleric Rapid spell; devine restoration (not breathtaking, but the summoner granted power is only nice in the early levels)
04 Cleric planar turning
05 Cleric
06 Malkon Voker Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration)
07 Malkon Voker
08 Malkon Voker Healing Pool
09 Malkon Voker either Holy Warrior or Power Attack (not sure)
10 Malkon Voker
11-20 Cleric
Primary tactic is what I like to call "Kesselschlacht" (Again: Not very creative, but I am german and creativity is not the primary cliché about us!):
Summon two monsters, charge from two directions (Thank you, Treantmonk for the picture with the Fiendish Tigers! Pounce ON!) and if something is left this guy charges from a third!
I know, I know: Some people dont like the War domain but I think it rocks, because I like my battleaxe you sqeamish weakling magic-users!
Not sure if to take Holy Warrior or Power Attack as 9th leve feat. Both have their merits. ( I am wielding my battleaxe two-handed)
I would appreciate your input on this and where to go featwise after that.
Fiendish creature - it's worth mentioning that "fiendish" can be put on any aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant or vermin. And then it's an evil outsider and bindable. So LPB - fiendish blue dragon wyrmling!
Fiendish template does not make creatures into outsiders; it turns animals into magical beasts and adds the extraplanar subtype.
Half-fiend, however, does turn it into an outsider.
Fiendish template does not make creatures into outsiders; it turns animals into magical beasts and adds the extraplanar subtype.
Half-fiend, however, does turn it into an outsider.
By my understanding of the Planar Binding spells is you call any Extraplanar creature.
This doesn't require the Outsider subtype (In fact, Outsider (native) subtypes - like Rakshasa's are not applicable).
However - be careful about templates - things start to get stinky when you use them.
For exampe - you could Planar Bind a 1/2 fiend 12th level wizard with a Planar Binding spell by RAW. However - this becomes game breaking.
I would expect with templated creatures - your character should probably know of them (has encountered or summoned them) in order to call them with planar binding.
[b]
Black Ethergaunt (16 HD, CR17, CHA 15) - an easy GPB which casts as a 17th level wizard! Not as "heavy" as a balor but if you need the versatility, it's like suddenly cloning yourself. And a gaze attack and immunity to spells. Total immunity to spells.
Red Ethergaunt (5 HD, CR9, CHA 13) - an easy LPB which casts as a 9th level wizard and has the other abilities too! Same cloning benefit - arguably the best LPB ever.
White Ethergaunt (11 HD, CR13, CHA 13) - an easy PB which casts as a 13th level wizard.
Including GPB?
@ParaDyne
No not really. They don't have total spell immunity. Reds have immunity to arcane spells 2nd lvl and lower, 4th lvl and lower for white, and 6th lvl and lower for black. They have no immunity to divine spells of any kind.
Greater Planar Binding is an eighth level spell (assuming it works in calling them).
A question about the ethergaunts. Fiend Folio lists them as Aberration (Extraplanar) not as Outsiders. Would the Planar Binding line of spells work in binding them?
My last post addresses this:
By my understanding of the Planar Binding spells is you call any Extraplanar creature.
This doesn't require the Outsider subtype (In fact, Outsider (native) subtypes - like Rakshasa's are not applicable).
Target: "One Elemental od Outsider".
The mention about extraplanar is in the spell description, where it says "lure a creature from another plane".
If we combine those things we obtain that the target must be an Elemental or Outsider from another plane or maybe currently on another plane.
I'm sorry to say so but the wording of the spell is:
Target: "One Elemental od Outsider".
The mention about extraplanar is in the spell description, where it says "lure a creature from another plane".
If we combine those things we obtain that the target must be an Elemental or Outsider from another plane or maybe currently on another plane.
Good call - my bad.
What would restrict fiendish/celestial and half-fiend/half-celestial templates being added?
The will of the DM obviously - but unless the DM wants to look like a prick he needs a reason as to why. Well the examples of the Fiendish/Celestial creatures given in Summon Monster Spells are all of animals and vermin (I think), or to put it another way 'creatures that are normally found on the (i.e. are native to the) Material Plane, and found in (relatively) large numbers'.
So why no Fiendish Dragons? Are Dragons simply not found in high enough numbers on aligned planes (those that can bestow the fiendish/celestial template) to be summonable?
In short, is it the existance of creatures on aligned planes in sufficiently high numbers that summoners know of their existance that allows them to be summoned? (as a DM, that'd be my explaination - even though it leaves the whole thing open to abuse - I'd just use other ways of discouraging players from abusing it)
Would a sufficiently high Knowledge (the planes) check allow a caster to know of a rare group of fiendish dragons (or other templated creatures) to be able to summon one?
I think a good Knowledge: Planes check should work.
I think Calling a "1/2 fiend 12th level wizard " could be self correcting, since said wizard is an intelligent , Evil,magic user. He might have counter measures or he might have "friends".Or both.
Either way, he is potentially dangerous.
Going with the Artaaglith from Ghostwalk. The thing is decently tough, but the Cleric casting was the deciding factor for me.
Giving him a wand of lesser vigor to use on me/my party and filling him up with buffs for me/my summons.
When he runs out of spells and SLA's he can wade into combat with his battleaxe.
Not sure if I'll even bother using Animate Dead with him.
1. LPB/PB/GPB do specify explicitly "elemental or outsider."
2. Ethergaunts aren't outsiders so they're out. I weep.
3. The fiendish template - you're right, it only adds (extraplanar), you need half-fiend (or a number of others) to make something an outsider. But RAW - fine, a half-fiendish beholder then! I'm not going to do this to my DM cause I'd never allow it in one of my games.
4. Today, my first binding! I'll let y'all know how it went.
We killed some weird undead spider things and cleaned out their cave and camped for the night. We were getting set to head into the stone giant fortress. (If you want to follow our escapades in more detail, you can check out my Rise of the Runelords Adventure Path Session Summaries.)
I had used a Cloudkill in the cave so was pretty sure it was clear of spiders or other vermin. I drew a summoning diagram, cast Circle of Protection vs Evil, and threw on a Dimensional Anchor.
Then, I cast Lesser Planar Binding and looked for a bar-lgura (FCI). It failed its save and we had it. Its CHA is pretty low. I cast Eagle's Splendor on myself and the party cleric cast Assay Spell Resistance and Curse of Ill Fortune (from the Spell Compendium; -3 on attacks, saves, ability checks, and skill checks - only level 2!). It had a CHA of 9 and I had a CHA of 16, so the opposed roll was easy. I commanded it to come with me and obey my commands for a week or until we slew the stone giant chieftain Makmurien - also noting it shouldn't harm my allies or use special abilities without my OK.
It was very helpful. We were trying to move around concealed from hidden cave to hidden cave and the unlimited teleports were very helpful. It threw some dispels on some spellcasters we fought, and did some melee. It also "abducted" the cleric to the best place in a big melee to heal people.
And it was fun. After I bound it, we all rested another night so we could be full on spells; I left it in the magic circle just for safety's sake (the rest of the party wasn't real happy about having a demon around). Our monk decided to search the summoning room for secret doors while the rest of the party slept - and found one! Being a supreme doofus, he decided to open it up and go in himself. "Haw far do you go into the super-small passage you have to squeeze into?" the DM asks. 30 feet, 60 feet, 90 feet... And then the redcaps attacked him. The demon pretended to snore loudly so that the rest of us wouldn't awaken to his faraway screams.
It was entertaining giving the demon a personality. At first it would follow the party cleric around, drooling voraciously. The cleric made him wear a bag over his head as punishment, but once he discovered that a burlap sack over his head with two eyeholes in it made him look even more disturbing to the party (Jason Voorhees the Orangutang Demon), he refused to take it off thereafter.
It was hard to explain to him why he shouldn't sate his demonic lusts on the corpse of the lamia we killed, though... (Well, she was unconscious and bleeding when he started, technically.) No demon bad demon!
Have any of you considered going into Magical Trickster to get Twin Spell as your bonus Metamagic feat and then use the third level to be able to apply Twin Spell to one of your Summon Monster spells once per day? I rather like the idea of having four Colossal Fiendish Monstrous Spiders under my command. And don't forget that since they creatures are Fiendish they don't have the traits of vermin. So no mindless meaning they can be aided by a Bard if you have one. Of course I'm sure you could find more uses for summoning four monsters other than the Spiders.
Since you lose one caster level from Malconvoker, losing another for Magical Trickster is a hard pill to swallow.
On the spider thing, that is interesting - they become "magical beast (extraplanar)". Which is a little sad, as the vermin mindlessness is actually a handy thing to have when you have fear auras etc. in play.
Since you lose one caster level from Malconvoker, losing another for Magical Trickster is a hard pill to swallow.
On the spider thing, that is interesting - they become "magical beast (extraplanar)". Which is a little sad, as the vermin mindlessness is actually a handy thing to have when you have fear auras etc. in play.
Would it be out of the question to assume the cleric might have a few Remove Fear spells prepared or made a Scrolls or Wands?
Having an Int of 3 (and thus able to understand common by RAW) and being able to follow instructions: "Web that guy", "Defend me", "Grapple!" is well worth the loss of "mindless"
Since you lose one caster level from Malconvoker, losing another for Magical Trickster is a hard pill to swallow.
+1
Although I believe the first rule of Optimization, ("never lose caster levels") is obsolete - I do think a simple revision makes it valid again.
"Never lose caster levels unless you get a GODLIKE amount back in return"
And while we are still on the subject - do you think Marshal 3/Bard 1/War Chanter 10 is too cheese cohort for a Malconvoker?... Inspire Recklessness and Inspire Legion... Yes please.
if I can find a way to fulfill the "line of sight for 10 minutes requirement" I can get some of my favorite summons into the tapestry.
I have no idea how you would do this. If you found a way - let me know and I'll consider it further.
And while we are still on the subject - do you think Marshal 3/Bard 1/War Chanter 10 is too cheese cohort for a Malconvoker?... Inspire Recklessness and Inspire Legion... Yes please.
If you take the leadership feat (which is possibly cheesy on its own) - going with a buffer is the obvious choice - and a good one. Archavists also make excellent buffers (some Bard builds as well).
I really need an opinion on something, what do you think of the feat "Stalwart Planar Ally" form Planar Handbook that gives your summons +4AC,+4 on all their saves and doubles the duration? The main problem with this is that you need the feat "Planar Touchedstone" wich is completely useless. What do you think? Is it worth it?
No I don't. However, it is worthy of consideration so thank you for bringing my attention to it.
The reason I don't think its worth it is because the bonuses it grants are directed to the wrong places. Your summons have lots of HP and a low AC - this is good because it entices the enemy to attack them. Any attack on a summoned creature is as good as a debuff that steals the enemies attack. One of the jobs I expect from my summoned creatures is to soak up the damage of enemy attacks.
Pumping up a summoned creatures AC firstly will still have them with a not very good AC - but it does discourage them as a target to some extent.
The saving throw bonus is probably better - allowing greater resistance to fear aura's or group effects. However - as you mention - the cost of two feats is great - and this bonus is fair.
The doubled duration is really kind of repetative. Malconvokers are getting that already, if they want more - they can go Thaumaturgist and double the effect. Now with this feat they can triple it. However - you will find that after you pass low levels the duration becomes somewhat irrelavent in any less than marathon battles. The summoned creature is around for one combat (or until killed) but gone by the next.
Generally - the buffs that really aid summoned creatures are bonuses to HP, Attack rolls, Damage, or movement.
Finally - but most importantly, the feat only affects summoned creatures from one plane. A Malconvoker restricts his summons somewhat by specializing in "evil only". However - between LE, NE, and CE there is still quite a bit of leeway - the feat will only boost 1/3 of those choices.
If you are looking for a greater buffing to a few of your creatures and willing to invest 2 feats to do it - I would recommend Imbued Summoning/Metamagic School Focus - and summon your creatures with Arms of Plenty from Lords of Madness (or if LoM isn't used - Girallon's Blessing from SpC for a lesser but similar effect) 3 times/day.
I think this is because you did not modify them properly with the application of the Fiendish template. A Fiendish creature becomes a Magical Beast, giving it a d10 HD and BAB equal to its HD, as opposed to an animal which has a d8 HD and BAB of 3/4 HD.
I've just started playing a Malconvoker, and was statting out my common summons when I noticed that your thumbnail stats on the first page seem to be wrong for several creatures, with too few hit points and too low an attack bonus.
I think this is because you did not modify them properly with the application of the Fiendish template. A Fiendish creature becomes a Magical Beast, giving it a d10 HD and BAB equal to its HD, as opposed to an animal which has a d8 HD and BAB of 3/4 HD.
MM pg 291 explains that a creature that has a change of type due to a template being added gains the traits of the new type (darkvision, etc) and the features of the original type (BAB, HP), unless the template specifically says otherwise.
However, you will find the To Hit/HP of your summons pretty formidable.
MM pg 291 explains that a creature that has a change of type due to a template being added gains the traits of the new type (darkvision, etc) and the features of the original type (BAB, HP), unless the template specifically says otherwise.
However, you will find the To Hit/HP of your summons pretty formidable.
Yeah, unfortunately the stats are right.
I actually haven't had too many times where summon hit points have been a big deal - many smart foes ignore them in favor of you/your party; even the way our DM plays the "dumb creatures" they tend to attack whoever's doing the most damage, which is rarely your summons.
And if you want more hp you can have them - my summons currently have Augment Summoning (+4 CON), Fury (+2 hp/HD), Call of Worlds (fast healing 5), and if for some reason I think I need more I burn a Varisian Idol for another +2 hp/HD. I'm not near wealthy enough for a ring of mighty summons but most L10 people would.
Mindbender (CArc) progresses your casting (although you take a BAB hit), and bumps your fort save by +2 (not bad!) The signature ability, of course, is the ability to communicate telepathically with everything within 100' that has a language. This is really handy when you're directing your minions, since you don't give away your intentions by yelling directions out loud. Telepathy also helps when dealing with elemenatls. Rather than learning Ignan, Aquan, Terran, and .. um... the Air language, you can communicate with your elementals telepathically without speaking their language. It especially helps the funny sorcerer malconvoker builds, since sorcerers are skillpoint-challenged, and you can get in at Sorc-5, not delaying entry to Malconvoker any further.
A wizard, OTOH, qualifies for mindbender and malconvoker at the same level, so you end up delaying your malconvoker progression. Personally, I think it's a big tradeoff, since the fiendish legion ability is so boss, I'm not sure if it's worth waiting a level to get. It might be, though, since being telepathic (especially in a campaign that allows mindsight) and having that already-high bluff skill is very nice. All sorts of uses for that - bluff the guard telepathically without letting the other guards know what's going on, and so on. But that's more the coolness that is mindbender rather than a malconvoker-specific thing.
Yes, easy enough to one level dip - and the +2 fort and increase to casting ability is satisfactory.
The premeire ability however, I do not recommend as a method to communicate with summoned creatures.
It is not common knowledge (because it is something many CO'ers would like to ignore) that telepathy takes a standard action.
The relevant rule is that Telepathy is a (Su) ability. It does not specify that it is a free action, and unless specified otherwise, Su abilities are a standard action.
I would never recommend using standard actions to coordinate summons - especially when you could be using that action to buff or bring more summoned monsters, or battlefield controls onto the map.
Telepathy of course can be useful anyways - and for any mage - it is a decent one level dip - I just don't think it is particularly good for Malconvokers if your DM knows and uses the rules as written.
I just made level 12 today, over the corpse of an old white dragon, so 6th level spells and full Planar Binding have arrived. My foes have started getting smarter and using Protection from Good to hedge out my summons, but a) SR can defeat that and b) I'm spending a lot of my actions on dispelling, dispelling, dispelling anyway to get rid of the 5-10 buffs everyone seems to have.
I have:
Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Augment Summoning (from Enhanced Summoning alt class feature)
Varisian Tattoo (Conjuration)
Acidic Splatter (CM)
Skill Focus (Spellcraft)
Skill Focus (Bluff)
Craft Wondrous Item
Craft Magic Arms and Armor
Generally, I use summons, fogs, and acid orbs or rays, with a hefty dose of enchantments like Confusion and Feeblemind. (My full build).
I thought about Precise Shot because I'm always taking -4 on my ranged touch attacks, but I have enough $$ now that I'm just going to buy a Rod of Arcane Precision that will give me that for $12k instead of a feat slot.
I thought about Sculpt Spell (CA) but it's not going to come up enough.
Quicken Spell would be uber boss esp. to get out summons fast but the 4 level hit is too much. I guess I could take it and then Metamagic School Focus in three more levels to get it down to +3. But that's 3 levels I need to survive, and a bird in the hand...
Demon Mastery (FCI p.85) helps with calls and +1 CL on summons, but CL isn't useful for summons! Except for duration, and with doubled duration that's locked on up.
I could take Spell Focus (enchantment) I reckon. Or something to help me against other casters, with dispels or something.
Summon Elemental - I guess now that they're Medium... But they're not combatants at this level, really just good for scouting and trap-monkeying.
I always seem to manage to do something saucy with that little puff of smoke. Plus it adds a nice theatrical touch!
One: If you take Skill Focus (Bluff) early, you get any bonus feat you qualify for at Malconvoker-3. You can use this to "launder" an earlier feat into a later one, which is nice, since there are some feats you want to take late, such as Summon Elemental [Reserve].
Two: A malconvoker (anyone, actually) can Planar Bind a Nightmare. Nightmares get Astral Projection as an at-will Su ability, CL 20. Normally, astral projection is a level 9 spell with a 1,000 gp material component. Congratulations, you just got it for free at level 10. On top of that? Astral Projection is the ultimate "Free Guy". Project into the astral, and reproject back into the Prime Material. You get a new body with all your equipment. If you die, your original body wakes up. Jinkies.
So I'd love advice on my next feat now that I'm L12.
Bind Visage?
b) I'm spending a lot of my actions on dispelling, dispelling, dispelling anyway to get rid of the 5-10 buffs everyone seems to have.
Sudden Maximize + Reciprocal Gyre helps with this.
Last night was the climax scene for part of this campaign. We had to face about five giants, all with lots of class levels, and their minions: dire bears, support cohort casters, etc. All in an open field.
Summon elemental was really handy for a distraction. Air elemental popped up and led the goblin sentries on a merry chase, as they started to get too close to my position.
Caster giants cast magic circle: good, since we're foes. The fools.
Giant croc, times four, hasted. That was my three first rounds of casting. It was boss. The BSF mentioned that I had just made him obsolete with those guys, their strength, and grapple scores. Of course, he's not too stupid, as a duskblade he's got other options.
Lesser planar binding is awesome. With a few prep spells, I get a bearded devil. I wish there was a limit in the spell description that kept me from summoning four of those guys. Of course, they're actually better when conjured, since augsumm only works on summons, not callings.
I'm seriously thinking about enlarge spell. 50' vs 100' is a big difference for initial placement, especially since the croc only moves 20. 3/day, it's free to boot, since I got MM School Focus.
The trickery domain, may look a strange choice at first
until you look closer at the domain power - bluff as a class skill , this, in my opinion, is worth more than the extra rounds given by the summoning domain, especialy at high levels. The domain spells are also usefull. If your dm allows you to take both domains even better.Spells - unrestricted conjuration opens up the following spells which are potentially usefull even though they don;t gain the deceptive summons or legion abilities.
Summon Undead I through V, still need to numbercrunch but the following stand out at a cursory glance:
II - Owlbear Skeleton - decent attack and damage, dr
III - Ghoul - paralysis; Troll Skeleton - nice attack and damage
IV - Allip - Wisdom damage, incorporeal, touch attack; Ghast - see ghoul + stench
V - Mummy - Mummyrot while not usefull in a standup fight has some interesting applications; Shadow - whats not to like about a touch attack doing d6 str damage; Vampire Spawn - blood drain, domination, energydrain, spiderclimb, gaseous form
If you add in the undead immunities and darkvision these make some very nice alternate summons.
Phaezen
Bind Visage?
Where is this from, I'm not familiar with it? Even a Googling is coming up null.
Cloudy Conjuration - it is theatrical, but it's really just "-2 until you 5 foot step out of it."
Summon Elemental - I have SM1s to burn, and a Medium elemental doesn't have too many uses at L12.
Sudden Maximize - good but I don't have another metamagic feat for the prereq.
Exceptional Spell Aim - possibly, I'm just not sure how much of the time I'll be able to use it. Maybe. I mostly use clouds/fogs, and could make a hole in it round 1, but then the fighter will just be standing there annoyed once the nearby monster dies/moves away.
Maybe I need greater SF (Conjuration) to up the DC to resist my Planar Binding, I don't like how it takes days to get one sometimes. Or SF(abjuration) to bump my dismissals and dispels. Or SF(enchantment) to improve my enchants, which I mainly use on binds. I know we're going to be fighting more giants, so going with more stuff that works vs Will saves would be good.
Bind Visage?
Where is this from, I'm not familiar with it? Even a Googling is coming up null.
I believe what was meant was "Bind Vestige" from Tome of Magic.
Anyway, I got to do a GPB in-game, we found a magic circle that let me do that. I got a Nalfeshnee (didn't want to risk real high CHAs, as my Malconvoker only has like a 14 CHA, and was stuck without some of my monster books so had limited choices). He wasn't all that great though - did suck damage. And since it turned out we were fighting other demons, many of his specials didn't work.
To be a good malconvoker you have to have an awesome amount of information ready - I had to go superfast so the rest of my party didn't get sick of me fidding to find out what I should bind.
Finally - but most importantly, the feat only affects summoned creatures from one plane. A Malconvoker restricts his summons somewhat by specializing in "evil only". However - between LE, NE, and CE there is still quite a bit of leeway - the feat will only boost 1/3 of those choices.
Actually, this isn't the case. The special section for Stalwart Planar Ally specifically states that you can choose to summon a creature from your touchstone plane if it is home to "Any good aligned plane." Or in this case, any evil. The only condition is that no part of their alignment can be against the alignment of the home plane, and then explicitly says that a Neutral Good and Lawful Good monster can be summoned from a Lawful Good plane. Thus, it stands to reason that a planar touchstone with a Neutral Evil plane (Such as hades) would allow you to apply the buff to all fiendish summons.
The two feat cost is still fairly extreme, though Planar touchstone has its own uses if you're playing a game that involves traveling between the planes. However, if you have a DM that allows you to train feats, it becomes a non-issue. (My DM charges gold and XP for each trained feat, the cost of which doubles each time, and maxes at 5 trained feats. It's all homebrew, but its worked for us so far.)
So on the one hand it does allow you to boost any celestial (or fiendish) critters. But it does not allow you to boost the more specific summons.
And if you have five basically free feats it's possibly worth it, but for anyone doing RAW, you already have doubled duration and the AC/save bonuses aren't where you really care about your summons - arguable for one feat, but way out of scope for two.
A few more things to consider for Cleric Malconvokers,
The trickery domain, may look a strange choice at first
Phaezen
If you are having a hard time choosing between Domains that your god has to offer, try Substitute Domain, a second level spell from Complete Champion.It lasts a day per level, and allows you to swap out the Domains you know for any
that your god offers.Cherry pick spells and Domain abilities. Bluff as a class skill, Summoning the rest of the time.
Since I dont know of a god that has both, try using Heretic of the Faith , from the Powers of Ferune book. This feat allows you to add a Domain to your gods portfolio. This will require some RP justification, an actually heresy that would explain why you believe that your deity should expand her portfolio.
Should be a natural, since you are a good character who is seeking to turn evil on itself.
If you assign some open-ended task that the creature cannot complete though its own actions the spell remains in effect for a maximum of one day per caster level, and the creature gains an immediate chance to break free.
I don't understand how this is functions. Is it supossed that the creature has a choice every day, or only one time? And how it could comes free? Only with a Charisma check (because the Magic Circle against Evil prevents him to escape via SR or dimensional travel)? Or just with a Will saving throw?
THanks in advance, and great job!
Party will consist of 3 12th level PCs. Myself, a Fighter/Rogue, and a Warmage. Given the specialized nature of the warmage, and the small party size, that left a lot to fall on my character to fill in all the missing gaps. Of course, a summoning cleric seemed to be the best bet for this task. And the malconvoker is just too fun to pass up.
Starting abilities were rolled, with the 3 points from level up going into wisdom. Allowed one flaw.
This Cleric is TN and does not follow a deity. He is dedicated to Trickery, and using deceit to gain power over the strong and to gain knowledge. Thus, he has the trickery domain. Instead of a second domain I took the Divine Magician ACF from Complete Mage; he thus gets to add a sor/wiz spell to his spell list for each level, chosen from the abj., div., and necro., schools.
Note that feats and skills are based on the Thaum. levels being taken around lvl 8-9. Also, Malconvoker was taken at lvl 6. DM permits a character to choose a new feat if a class gives the feat and the character already has it, so long as the feat is in line with the class that grants it. Thus, Metamagic School Focus (conjuration) was taken with Thaumaturgist 2 instead of Augment Summoning.
Human TN Cleric5/Malconvoker 5/Thamaturgist 2
Str 11, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 24 (20), Cha 18 (16)
hps: 83
speed: 30ft/x4
Saves Fort 10, Ref 6, Will 20
Init: +2
AC: 17 = 10 + 2 Dex + 5 armor
BAB/Grapple: +6/+6
Feats:
1-Spell Focus (Conjuration)
1 (human)-Scribe Scroll
1 (flaw)-Extra Turning
3-Augment Summoning
6-Rapid Spell
9-Repeat Spell
12-DMM (Repeat Spell)
Bonus-Skill Focus (bluff)
Bonus-Metamagic School Focus (conjuration)
Flaw: Inattentive (-4 spot/listen)
Traits: Dishonest (+1 Bluff, -2 Dip.), Passionate (+1 Fort, -1 Will)
Skills:
Bluff +28 (15r + 4 Cha + 3 feat +5 comp +1 trait)
Concentration +18 (15r + 3 Con)
Diplomacy +16 (10r + 4 Cha +4 syn -2 trait)
Intimidate +6 (0r +4 Cha + 2 syn)
Know (planes) +12 (10r + 2 Int)
Know (religion) +7 (5r + 2 Int)
Know (arcane) +7 (5r + 2 Int)
Listen +3 (0r + 7 Wis -4 flaw)
Sense Motive +12 (5r + 7 Wis)
Speak Language 5r
Spellcraft +9 (5r + 2 Int +2 syn)
Spot +3 (0r +7 Wis -4 flaw)
Languages: Common, Infernal, Celestial, Abyssal, Auran, Terran, Aquan, Ignan
Special Abilities:
Divine Magician (ACF)
Turn Undead (Su) 15/day, 1d20+6, 2d6+9, as 5th lvl Cleric
Improved Ally
Deceptive Summons (Su)
- double duration
- fury (+2 damage, +2 hps/HD)
Unrestricted Conjuration
Planar Binding spells added to spell list
Fiendish Legion
Spellcasting: as 11th lvl Cleric
Save DCs: 17 + spell level (+1 for Conj.)
Caster Level 11
Spells Per Day: 6/7+1/6+1/6+1/4+1/3+1/2+1
Domain: Trickery
Domain Spells: Disguise Self, Invisibility, Nondetection, Confusion, False Vision, Mislead, Screen, Polymorph Any object, Time Stop
Divine Magician spells added:
1-Ray of Enfeeblement, 2-Spectral Hand, 3-Anticipate Teleportation (SC), 4-Ray Deflection (SC), 5-Spell Theft (CS), 6-Analyze Dweomer
Items: (88,000gp)
Ring of Mighty Summons (14000) CM
Periapt of Wisdom +4 (16000)
Mask of Lies (4500) MIC
Cloak of Charisma +2 (4000)
Boots of Swift Passage (5000) MIC
+1 mithral chainshirt (2150)
Handy Haversack (2000)
Metamagic Rod, Extend (11,000)
Vest of resistance (+2, 4000) MIC
Nightstick (7500) LM
Headband of Conscious Effort (2000) MIC
Quill of Scribing (1750) CM
remaining cash into many scrolls and spell components/foci
Notes:
DM only allows one Nightstick per character. Additional Nighsticks won't add more turning attempts.
Went with Repeat Spell instead of Twin Spell due to lower turn attempts used via divine metamagic. Not sold on this choice though.
Will use Metamagic School Focus to prepare top 3 summoning spells with rapid spell each day. This is to minimize reliance on turn attempts. Would likely save up for a rod of Rapid Spell, greater.
Went with Mask of Lies rather than Circlet of Persuasion. Gives a better boost to bluff, grants a constant protection agaisnt discern alignment, and gives uses of disguise self spell. Seemed a better option. I don't figure on using planar binding much, but if I do then perhaps I'll get a Circlet then; they aren't very expensive.
Will likely try to get a Domain Staff of Trickery. This relieves the need for Domain Spontaneity, which would otherwise be a great feat. Originally had that feat, but swapped it for scribe scroll since I will be the primary utility caster, apparently.
Will take Thaumaturgist to lvl 5 for the Planar Cohort and maybe try to get into Paragnostic Apostle for the various benefits of that class.
Hi all! I have made my malconvoker character and it seems it going to be funny... but i have a question, a basic one about Planar Binding spells: in SRD, it's said that
I don't understand how this is functions. Is it supossed that the creature has a choice every day, or only one time? And how it could comes free? Only with a Charisma check (because the Magic Circle against Evil prevents him to escape via SR or dimensional travel)? Or just with a Will saving throw?
THanks in advance, and great job!
Sorry for the late response. By the way I read it - immediate chance means a saving throw right off the bat. I don't read it that it gets daily repeated saves.
This is really one of the best guides I've ever read.
Thank you. My wizard "being a God" guides have gotten more attention, but this Malconvoker guide is close to my heart because it was my first, and because I love summoning so much!
Just a couple questions, is SM(I or II) really worth it given how short its going to be? You mentioned in your guide that you don't really start summoning a lot until level 5. What other spells are useful in combat prior to summons? I don't really have a tremendous amount of experience with arcane spellcasters, I tend to stick to melee/divine casters, so the whole battlefield control with spells is sort of new for me. Grease and benign transposition seem very useful, but I'm still not entirely sure what to be doing at the low levels. Is obscuring mist worth picking up even though its centered on you?
Also, going with a Strongheart halfling Focused Specialist Conjurer 1, with rapid summoning in place of a familiar and augment summoning in place of scribe scroll, with evocation/enchantment banned, is banning either necromancy or abjuration worth it? I'm going to have a cleric in the party to cast circle of prot, but he probably won't have ranks in spellcraft, so I won't get the fortified circle to deal with higher level planar binds. Necromancy definitely has a lot cooler spells, but I'm not even sure I'll have the spellslots to cast them, so would abjuration be more useful?
Also, feats are spell focus(conj) and cloudy conjuration, the cloud just seems useful when I drop a grease on someone I can stick a cloud to make them sickened, basically making it very tough for them to get back up, but the 1 round duration doesn't make it seem overly powerful at level 1.
Anyways, the guide is amazing, and theres a lot of information about what to do at the higher levels, but I'm a little lost about the early game. Still, very useful and definitely made me switch my mind from going a martial cleric to a summoner.
Grease is a great 1st level spell for conjurer's. Take it and use it often. When you come into combat, you thow the grease as your first action. Make sure your closest enemies are right at the edge - you your companions can walk up and smack the prone enemies. Memorize this multiple times.
Mage armor is also a level 1 definite. Keep one memorized, and with an hour duration it will give a much needed AC boost for mulitple combats.
A few other spells nice to have in the spellbook at early levels (though you won't always have these memorized): Silent Image, Shield, Protection from Evil, Benign Transposition. Both Silent Image and Benign Transposition make great cheap wands later on.
At third level your greatest spell will be Glitterdust. Memorize it always and use it often. Grease will still be very good and should be used often as well. This is also a point where you can start using summoning for combat, though it's not your main focus yet. The Large Centipede is a nice one - especially if you can get your enemies to attack it instead of your party.
By level 5, the Fiendish Ape and Celestial Bison are good enough to make Summoning your main focus.
You can give up Necromancy no problem. Focused specialist is the way to go with Malconvoker, and those extra castings will be invaluable at low levels.
A traditional Malconvoker (or even a normal wizard) who access to 6th level spells and thus planar binding.
---
And a cloistered cleric who access to these following domains, air, cold, and water (all three). He boosts his rebuke level as high as possible with items and feats, those three domains listed above also give him the ability to rebuke creatures of those types.
The wizard uses planar binding to summon Immoths (elementals from MM2 casts as 12th level sorcerers as well as many other goodies, Immoths have air, cold, and water subtypes). The cleric then rebukes said creatures, you now have far more sorcerers you add to your party.
---
A psion with the Psychic Reformation power allowing the Immoths to rearrange their spell choices.
---
Now the Cleric wants to stay as pure Cleric as possible to keep his turning level up, then again if dragon material is allowed he may want to consider a 1 level dip into Bard. Dragon 357 has Sacred Performer (needs turn undead and bardic music) your bard and cleric levels stack for turn undead as well as the number of bardic music uses. Dragon 333 has Divine Inspiration which has the same pre reqs, now your bardic and cleric levels stack to determine which bardic musics you have access to as well as the strength.
Summons as well as Planar Bind creatures are a lot stronger with bardic music ;)
---
What is better than a party full of 3 full spellcasters, a party full of 9 full spellcasters
Phylactery of Undead Turning (Dungeon Master's Guide, 11,000 gp), +4 effective turning level
Sacred +2 effective turning level, +2 armor enhancement
Flametouched Iron Holy Symbol (Eberron Campaign Setting, 750 gp)
Scepter of the Netherworld (Libris Mortis, 9,000gp) +3 effective turn levels
Improved Turning (PHB) +1 effective turning level
See through the Veil (Complete Champion Paragnostic Apostle) +2 effective turning level
(hey does anybody have the link to the old archive thread of the co undead slaying contest?)
Using this guide I've decided to go with a Non-evil human.
I am NOT keen on preparing spells, so it's a sorcerer.
So, here's the plan. Sorcerer 6 / Malconvoker 5 / Thaumaturgist 4
1 - Sorcerer (Bluff 4, Know(planes)2, languages (Celestial, Infernal)
1 - Spell Focus (Conjuration),
1 - Cloudy Conjuration
3 - Augment Summoning
5 - Domain Access Variant to access Summoning Domain, Know(planes) +2
6 - Chain Spell
9 - Summon Elemental
12 - Imbued Summoning
I do have a question. Since I took augment at lv3, when I get it from Thaumaturgist can I switch it for any other feat? Or is it just lost?
Also, at 15 on, I don't know what feats to take. I'm also wondering which classes I'll take for 16-20. Any suggestions?
5 - Domain Access Variant to access Summoning Domain, Know(planes) +2
Do Sorcerers have this option too? I thought it was just for wizards...
I do have a question. Since I took augment at lv3, when I get it from Thaumaturgist can I switch it for any other feat? Or is it just lost?
I've heard of DM's going either way - check with yours
Also, at 15 on, I don't know what feats to take. I'm also wondering which classes I'll take for 16-20. Any suggestions?
How about Abjurant Champion?
Hey I was just taking a look over the guide as i am currently playing a malconvoker and I am wondering how you are summoning Ice Devils as they do not appear on the SM lists at all and going through I was unable to find any rules to add the Ice Devil to the list. If I am missing this then please let me know as I would Love to summon one if possible
Can you refer me to the post I talk about summoning Ice Devils? I know I talk alot about summoning bone devils...
You could always Planar Bind an Ice Devil (Need the +2 HD ability or Greater Planar Binding). I agree - the SLA's would be very nice.
4. A Malconvoker has spell versitility: Really you do. Check out the lists below for some of the Spell Like Abilities available to summoned monsters. Summon the one you need - and have it cast the spell for you. For example - how many Walls of Ice can a 14th level Conjurer cast? If you said 2/round for 15 rounds for a total of 30, you would be wrong (if that conjurer happens to be a Malconvoker)- because the Malconvoker does that with one SM VII (Ice Devilx2), and he has 3 memorized - so 90 would actually be the correct number.
Oh - wait - I forgot Deceptive Summons. Make that 180. That's without any magic item enhancements.
And the SLA's available are nearly endless - and since you don't have to pick which creature (S) you are summoning until you cast the spell - that's spell versitility.
I saw some mentioning in a couple other spots and so I double checked to see where it was and If I could summon some because an Ice Devil at Sm 7 is far better then most of the other/if not all other choices at that level
Yep - that would be my brain thinking "Bone Devil" and my fingers typing "Ice Devil" - of course, one thing these two devils have in common is the use of "Wall of Ice" at will.
I'll do an edit to correct - sorry for raising your hopes. If it makes you feel better - bone devils are very, very nice. (Especially with Augment and Infernal Fury)
Do Sorcerers have this option too? I thought it was just for wizards...
Only Sorcerers have this option, according to Complete Champion page 52.
How would a wizard gain "Lesser Planar Ally" for Thaumaturgist?
The standard way for Wizard to go Thaumaturgist is with Arcane Disciple (CD)
So since Malkonvoker is a 9-level class, that means making an epic-ready character build would be rather tough, right? You'd have to find some other 10-level PrC to mix with Malkonvoker 5 and BaseClass 5, right? Which 10-level would be best? Or would it be better to just finish Malk, then waste a few of your epic levels finishing the last 4 levels of whichever 2nd PrC you used?
I'm not much for epic builds - but level 5 is a good break point for Malconvoker, so I would assume picking up a level 10 PrC afterwards would be your best option.
So since Malkonvoker is a 9-level class, that means making an epic-ready character build would be rather tough, right? You'd have to find some other 10-level PrC to mix with Malkonvoker 5 and BaseClass 5, right? Which 10-level would be best? Or would it be better to just finish Malk, then waste a few of your epic levels finishing the last 4 levels of whichever 2nd PrC you used?
via the technical rules yes, though your DM will be a d*** if he makes a 10 level class into an epic progression but not a 9th level class. Epic game need houserules and dm/player cooperation or else the game falls apart.
About the succubus binding guide, a couple things bother me:
1) Bestow curse is a touch spell. The entire premise is she's trapped inside a 20' diameter circle, and therefore can't get you. This makes touching her problematic. Spectral hand would probably solve the problem, though you might be able to convince your DM there's no reason you couldn't draw a smaller circle if you wanted. Close confinement might even make her more anxious to get out.
2) For similar reasons your imp-related threat is pretty hollow: once inside the circle, the imp is more or less at the mercy of the succubus. Not really sure if there's a decent analog threat--perhaps setting the circle around a cauldron of acid or something? I dunno--but just because she can't leave the circle doesn't mean she's helpless.
3) I was actually under the impression that an outsider who dies on any plane but their home plane dissolves and re-forms on their home plane, that this was part of being an outsider and not part of the Summon Monster spells...can someone show me where this "dying in canada means dying on the abyss" stuff is coming from?
Edit:
As an additional idea, Lesser Planar Binding for a succubus, (with magic circle against evil and dimensional anchor), followed by a feeblemind spell has interesting possibilities. She's probably not worth much in combat, but you can probably sell her for a decent price.
Great Guide!
About the succubus binding guide, a couple things bother me:
1) Bestow curse is a touch spell. The entire premise is she's trapped inside a 20' diameter circle, and therefore can't get you. This makes touching her problematic. Spectral hand would probably solve the problem, though you might be able to convince your DM there's no reason you couldn't draw a smaller circle if you wanted. Close confinement might even make her more anxious to get out.
2) For similar reasons your imp-related threat is pretty hollow: once inside the circle, the imp is more or less at the mercy of the succubus. Not really sure if there's a decent analog threat--perhaps setting the circle around a cauldron of acid or something? I dunno--but just because she can't leave the circle doesn't mean she's helpless.
3) I was actually under the impression that an outsider who dies on any plane but their home plane dissolves and re-forms on their home plane, that this was part of being an outsider and not part of the Summon Monster spells...can someone show me where this "dying in canada means dying on the abyss" stuff is coming from?
Edit:
As an additional idea, Lesser Planar Binding for a succubus, (with magic circle against evil and dimensional anchor), followed by a feeblemind spell has interesting possibilities. She's probably not worth much in combat, but you can probably sell her for a decent price.
1) Spectral Hand, naturally.
2) Pixie sleep arrows? I'm not really sure how to solve this one.
3) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#calling
1) Spectral Hand, naturally.
2) Pixie sleep arrows? I'm not really sure how to solve this one.
3) http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#calling
Thanks for the link on Calling. Now I know.
Yeah, knocking her unconscious would probably get you where you need to go, especially if you have cold iron manacles handy. It also occurs to me that Evard's Black Tentacles probably makes as good a threat as an Imp anyway.
And, since I've finally gotten off my *ss and started posting to the forum, I figured I should contribute a trick I've uncovered (if only I could find the place I'd read it at T.T)
Here's the questionable part. I'm confident I remember reading somewhere (and my gm feels he remembers seeing it as well) that summoned creatures don't really use charge related items. If a creature has an item, and uses it when summoned, it doesn't use the item up, because they aren't really 'there' it acts kind of like astral projection in that respect as far as we can tell.
Anyways, when using the DMG variant that allows the use of specific unique monsters (each with a name and rolled stats, it was a HUGE pain in the butt to compile them all and come up with names but the tactical advantage is strong and the rp aspect is entertaining and involving) I've begun taking advantage of craft contingency.
By the ruling (which I still need to find, urg) these contingencies don't count if they go off when the creature is summoned.
Probably my favorite combo so far, is that I've crafted contingency Heroics (I believe thats the name of the spell anyway, the one from the spell compendium that grants a fighter feat) such that when it is summoned, contingent Heroics (combat expertise) activates, triggering contingent Heroics (Improved Trip), triggering contingent Heroics (combat reflexes), triggerring contingent Divine Agility on a pair of Orthons (Large Devil Soldier demons that use an exotic spear that targets adjacent targets along with the spear's full reach)
It ends up being a solid tripper (between Augment Summons and a rolled 18 in strength and it's total strength is 34) Usually one is summoned on either side of the enemy, providing flanking bonuses and double layering the trip mayhem. (it also helps that the weapon they are tripping with happens to count against adjacent squares, granting them 15 feet of trip range, not unlike using a spiked chain, though cooler because, well, spiked chains look lame lol.)
For the record, we're playing level 16 right now, for anybody curious.
Any comments (including disproofs of course, if I'm wrong on this it would be good to know.)
If you find such a rule (or anyone here) - please post it and the source. If it works that is a very powerful suggestion...
Does this seem like a waste of a feat? Is there a better way to get a little healing without this?
I should point out that I don't really want to pick up the Healing domain with Arcane Disciple because I want to be able to play a Neutral aligned PC. We are using standard Dieties from PH and CD and any with healing domain are a good alignment.
-dm
* Cloistered Cleric 1 with Trickery Domain (for skill points, turn undead going into Divine Metamagic, and so forth)
* Conjurer (Unearthed Arcana ACF) 1 (for Rapid Summoning)
* Cloistered Cleric 2-5 (up to 3rd level spells)
* Paragnostic Apostle 1 (for Call of Worlds)
* Malconvoker 5
Sure you'll risk some arcane spell failure for your meager handful of arcane spells, but you can also effectively wear light armor all the time. Rapid Summoning means you're quick on the cast, and Divine Metamagic (powered by a cleric's half-decent CHA) means you can Repeat or Twin summoning spells if necessary.
Once Fiendish Legion is available to you at level 12, you can use it to throw out an impressive number of regenerating creatures in a very short time. Using SM V to pull out SM IV creatures, you could Divine Metamagic Repeat to pop out 2-4 boosted Howlers, and another 2-4 on the consecutive turn with no additional action from you, and all of them would have fast healing 6.
"Not to worry, my ogre brothers! We have this feeble human at our mercy! We shall drink blood from his hollowed skull this--"
*pop* *poppop* *poppoppoppop*"-- oh crap."
:evillaugh
I am creating a Malconvoker who will start at level 9 but will only make it to level 11 or so...
Well, you can cast Lesser Planar Binding at 10th level and bind an Artaaglith from Ghost Walk (that cast as a 5th level evil Cleric).
However, yes, your healing options are pretty limited, especially if you can't take the healing domain.
One possible build I was thinking of -- and so far I've only got it up to around level 12 -- was this:
* Cloistered Cleric 1 with Trickery Domain (for skill points, turn undead going into Divine Metamagic, and so forth)
* Conjurer (Unearthed Arcana ACF) 1 (for Rapid Summoning)
* Cloistered Cleric 2-5 (up to 3rd level spells)
* Paragnostic Apostle 1 (for Call of Worlds)
* Malconvoker 5
Sure you'll risk some arcane spell failure for your meager handful of arcane spells, but you can also effectively wear light armor all the time. Rapid Summoning means you're quick on the cast, and Divine Metamagic (powered by a cleric's half-decent CHA) means you can Repeat or Twin summoning spells if necessary.
Once Fiendish Legion is available to you at level 12, you can use it to throw out an impressive number of regenerating creatures in a very short time. Using SM V to pull out SM IV creatures, you could Divine Metamagic Repeat to pop out 2-4 boosted Howlers, and another 2-4 on the consecutive turn with no additional action from you, and all of them would have fast healing 6.
Yep, the fall-behind on the casting hurts, but the build is still viable. Works with regular Cleric as well.
I wouldn't overestimate the power of fast healing for summoned creatures though. It is not common for summoned creatures to not get attacked at all (as the better strategy is often to avoid attacking summoned creatures), and those that do get attacked, when summoned by a Malconvoker, already have an immense stack of disposable HP (never waste a healing spell on a summoned creature).
I'll be getting the opportunity to play my first malconvoker this Saturday. (Here he is, for anybody that cares -- I'm not completely done with magic item selection yet.) Unfortunately he's level 7, and I'm not sure if we'll get to level 10 when the fun really begins, so right now he's really more of a weaker archivist that's unusually good at bluffing and with a focus on summoning.
Anyway, I was looking through the Fiendish Codex I, and one of the more interesting ideas that hasn't been explored much in this thread is using your planar binding slaves to possess and enhance yourself, allies and objects.
At level 10 you could bind an possession-capable ekolid which could enhance an item with magical traits up to 12,000 gp in value (though it'd probably take you a while binding other demons before you'd find a suitable ekolid -- a guecubu would be adequate for 8000 gp in enhancements). That's enough to give you a +2 weapon equivalent weapon, but not +3. Nice, but nothing beautiful. Except there is no mention of a limit on how often the demon can choose to change the enhancement imparts, and the demon can activate/deactivate its enhancing as a free action. Hello +1 bane (whatever we happen to be fighting) greatsword -- that turns into a +1 ghost touch greatsword when the wraiths come out of the woodwork. It's also illuminating (when you want it to be) and aquatic without losing the other properties (if you're using the ekolid or other 6+ HD demon).
It's pretty powerful, but maybe not quite as abusive as using efreeti as wish vending machines, or even exploiting the SLAs of various other summons/bindings. And it gives you a chance to give back a little to your comrades, something that the malconvoker isn't particularly known for (though you might step on the artificer's toes a bit).
Another interesting thing about of taking advantage of the demon's ability to possess objects (and especially people) is that you're getting into some much darker (and potentially more evil) territory here. Instead of the DM holding the threat of a retributive demon army swooping down on you if you keep abusing your powers, overuse of the binding/possession mechanic is something that could play out more naturally with a gradual alignment shift.
Those are my thoughts anyhow. Thanks again for the guide.
I think still a good choice for LPB. It can be bound to use "ally" form possession giving you a +4 profane bonus to the attribute of your choice (Int or Cha?) - on top of that it can use telekinisis, telepathy etc. The 4HD will probably be a non factor.
If you need a scout - it has natural invisibility and perfect flight.
However - this is a risky bind. You will need to stipulate in the contract that it can only use the "ally" form of possession, and may communicate telepathically, but cannot use its detect thoughts ability on you.
though we were discussing the Guecubu. The Ekolid makes me nervous due to its latent ability to make your allies crazy.
I think PBing a creature that possesses and then using that possession to your benifit is an interesting strategy, but one you should consider your "agreement" with very closely. Having yourself possessed by a CE demon that thinks you are CE too has some potential devestating effects, especially if your DM is insideous.
I think PBing a creature that possesses and then using that possession to your benifit is an interesting strategy, but one you should consider your "agreement" with very closely. Having yourself possessed by a CE demon that thinks you are CE too has some potential devestating effects, especially if your DM is insideous.
Yeah, that's why having it possess items would be a bit safer, perhaps. You'd still have to be careful about your instructions, but in some ways ordering it to possess an item might make it a little easier to control (and disguise).
Good point about the ekolid, though. I just picked it because it was the first 6 HD, 13+ Cha demon in sight (besides the excessively charismatic succubus) -- obviously a real malconvoker would have to be a little more careful than that.
In any event, the FC1 possession info doesn't indicate that it's a power that's exclusive to demons, but instead seems to suggest it is an ability that any "fiend" that meets the other prerequisites might have. So a special barghest would work just as well too.And I just realized that stock guecubus may have a limited form of possession that may not allow them to possess objects.
Mindbender is very useful since you can now speak to your underwater (or deaf?) summons and of course your ennemies can't hear you. It also gives you full malconvoker class which is really good but delays for the higher level abilities 'cause they're not that good compared to the thaumaturgist. This will be one of my characters build. Please comment, any ideas to make it better, though it's already great :D
Picking the level of Mindbender before the Malconvoker levels is different. You think that telepathy is worth holding off Infernal legion until level 11?
I agree a Mindbender dip is a nice dip (for most wizard builds in fact) - there are 2 things to remember:
1) You can't be good (no problem with Malconvoker - just be neutral)
2) By RAW telepathy takes a standard action to activate - which may make it more trouble than it is worth in many circumstances.
Thaumaturgist is one that is often suggested on this thread. I agree that it is a decent choice, though I consider some of the abilities somewhat redundant (extend on summons) or completely redundant (free augment summoning).
I wouldn't dissuade you from taking Thaumaturgist - when you think Summoning it comes to mind right away - however, a cost/benifit analysis should be considered:
Cost:
Must take Arcane Disciple feat (basically useless other than qualifying for Thaumaturgist)
Must have a decent wisdom score (you must be able to cast Planar ally - not just have it on your list) This means that Int/Dex or Con will suffer.
Benifit:
Extend spell on summons (somewhat redundant with Deceptive Summons - now duration is 3x instead of 2x)
Augment Summoning feat (you already have this - so it is wasted)
Contingent Summoning (a nice little ability)
Planar Cohort (a nice little ability - but again, somewhat redundant as it could be essentially duplicated with PB).
The downside (and it's a hefty one) is that if you're not evil, it bestows a negative level - so it's only really useful for malconvokers who can hit a DC 30 UMD check or who are willing to take a negative level to use its effects.
SRD on negative levels:
A creature takes the following penalties for each negative level it has gained:
* -1 on all skill checks and ability checks.
* -1 on attack rolls and saving throws.
* -5 hit points.
* -1 effective level (whenever the creature’s level is used in a die roll or calculation, reduce it by one for each negative level).
* If the victim casts spells, she loses access to one spell as if she had cast her highest-level, currently available spell. (If she has more than one spell at her highest level, she chooses which she loses.) In addition, when she next prepares spells or regains spell slots, she gets one less spell slot at her highest spell level.
Depending on your character and how much cash you have, it could be worth it.
Why should I play a Malconvoker?
Consider looking through your new splatbook. You see a PrC for casters that looses a caster level. Already you think "This better have some great class abilities.", you are ready to turn the page.
The first level ability has a +1 metamagic added to spells for free. You think "That's not enough to make this worthwhile" - if you weren't bored you would have already gone to the next PrC.
The fourth level ability effectively doubles one of your specialty feats. You now think "Still not enough."
The fifth level ability then adds +4 Metamagic to spells for free (thats +5 levels of metamagic for free). You read it again - yes - thats +5 metamagic levels to spells free.
I feel dumb for quoting this so long into the threads life but I just don't understand the free metamagic thing...
Im guessing extend spell and twin spell?
because as it looks right now it seems like your saying they add any metamagic feats of up to a +5 for free which I know that isn't right.
Can somebody confirm my thoughts?
I feel dumb for quoting this so long into the threads life but I just don't understand the free metamagic thing...
Im guessing extend spell and twin spell?
because as it looks right now it seems like your saying they add and metamagic feats of up to a +5 for free which I know that isn't right.
Can somebody confirm my thoughts?
This handbook has been around awhile, but you are the first to ask this question (which is something I wasn't sure was clear when I wrote it) - so no reason to feel dumb.
Yes - your guess is exactly what I meant. Effectively (but not actually) by level 5 you are adding extend and twin spell to summoning (upon the conditions that you are summoning a single creature that is evil). This would be equivalent to +5 levels of metamagic.
Of course you could still twin and extend the spell since the Malconvoker abilities aren't actually metamagic effects (though you would use rules for adding multipliers when it came to duration...but since infernal legion is not a multiplier - twin+infernal legion means 4 creatures).
Hopefully that clears it up.
There are some interesting comments in the responses about using divine metamagic, twin spell, and repeat spell with Malconvoker for some serious summoning ability.
This is from the top of my head, so bear with me...
Human Focused Specialist, Rapid Summoning, Enhanced Summoning Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 10/Malconvoker 5/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Sacred Exorcist 1 (NOT in that order, just listing the classes.)
Use Alternate Source Spell or Southern Magician to allow DMM to apply to your Summons, and double-twin them.
I just did a malconvoker build for someone else, let me see if I can modify that to fit in the necessary feats...
Race: Human
Full Build: Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Paragnostic Apostle 1/Sacred Exorcist 1/Master Specialist +8
ACF's: Focused Specialist (CM), Rapid Summoning (UA/SRD), Enhanced Summoning (UA/SRD)
Class Features: Focused Specialist, Rapid Summoning, Enhanced Summoning, Wizard Spellcasting (CL19), Expanded Spellbook (3), Deceptive Summons (extend/Fury), Unrestricted Conjuration, Planar Binding, Fiendish Legion, Holy Texts, Knowledge is Power-Call of Worlds, Lore, Exorcism, Turn Undead, Minor School Esoterica-Conjuration, Caster Level Increase +2, Moderate School Esoterica-Conjuration, Major School Esoterica-Conjuration
Prohibited Schools: Enchantment, Evocation, and Necromancy
Feats: Collegiate Wizard (Human), Spell Focus-Conjuration (1), Augment Summoning (Wiz-ACF), Able Learner (Flaw), Imbue Summoning (3), Skill Focus-Spellcraft (MSp), Skill Focus-Bluff (Mal), Southern Magician (6), Repeat Spell (9), Divine Metamagic-Repeat Spell (12), Greater Spell Focus-Conjuration (MSp), Cloudy Conjuration (15), Summon Elemental (18), Fiendish Summoning Specialist (18)
Build
Level Class Level - Abilities; BAB, F/R/W CL(SL)
1 Con 1 - Focused Specialist, Rapid Summoning; +0, 0/0/2 CL1(1st)
2 Con 2 - ; +1, 0/0/3 CL2
3 Con 3 - ; +1, 1/1/3 CL3(2nd)
4 MSp 1 - ; +1, 1/1/5 CL4
5 MSp 2 - Expanded Spellbook (3rd); +2 1/1/6 CL5(3rd)
6 Mal 1 - Deceptive Summons (extend), Unrestricted Cojuration; +2 1/1/8 CL5
7 Mal 2 - Planar Binding; +3 1/1/9 CL6
8 Mal 3 - ; +3 2/2/9 CL7(4th)
9 Mal 4 - Deceptive Summons (fury); +4 2/2/10 CL8
10 Mal 5 - Fiendish Legion; +4 2/2/10 CL9(5th)
11 PAp 1 - Holy Texts, Lore, Knowledge is Power-Call of Worlds; +4 2/2/12 CL10
12 SEx 1 - Exorcism, Turn Undead; +4, 2/2/14 CL11(6th)
13 MSp 3 - ; +4, 3/3/14 CL12
14 MSp 4 - Minor School Esoterica; +5, 3/3/15 CL13(7th)
15 MSp 5 - Expanded Spellbook (7th), +5, 3/3/15 CL14
16 MSp 6 - Caster Level Increase +1; +6, 4/4/16 CL15(8th)
17 MSp 7 - Moderate School Esoterica; +6, 4/4/16 CL16
18 MSp 8 - Expanded Spellbook (9th), +7, 4/4/16 CL17(9th)
19 MSp 9 - Caster level Increase +2; +7, 5/5/16 CL18
20 MSp 10 - Major School Esoterica; +8, 5/5/17 CL19
Level Class Level - Abilities; BAB, F/R/W CL(SL)
1 Con 1 - Focused Specialist, Rapid Summoning; +0, 0/0/2 CL1(1st)
2 Con 2 - ; +1, 0/0/3 CL2
3 Con 3 - ; +1, 1/1/3 CL3(2nd)
4 MSp 1 - ; +1, 1/1/5 CL4
5 MSp 2 - Expanded Spellbook (3rd); +2 1/1/6 CL5(3rd)
6 Mal 1 - Deceptive Summons (extend), Unrestricted Cojuration; +2 1/1/8 CL5
7 Mal 2 - Planar Binding; +3 1/1/9 CL6
8 Mal 3 - ; +3 2/2/9 CL7(4th)
9 Mal 4 - Deceptive Summons (fury); +4 2/2/10 CL8
10 Mal 5 - Fiendish Legion; +4 2/2/10 CL9(5th)
11 PAp 1 - Holy Texts, Lore, Knowledge is Power-Call of Worlds; +4 2/2/12 CL10
12 SEx 1 - Exorcism, Turn Undead; +4, 2/2/14 CL11(6th)
13 MSp 3 - ; +4, 3/3/14 CL12
14 MSp 4 - Minor School Esoterica; +5, 3/3/15 CL13(7th)
15 MSp 5 - Expanded Spellbook (7th), +5, 3/3/15 CL14
16 MSp 6 - Caster Level Increase +1; +6, 4/4/16 CL15(8th)
17 MSp 7 - Moderate School Esoterica; +6, 4/4/16 CL16
18 MSp 8 - Expanded Spellbook (9th), +7, 4/4/16 CL17(9th)
19 MSp 9 - Caster level Increase +2; +7, 5/5/16 CL18
20 MSp 10 - Major School Esoterica; +8, 5/5/17 CL19
Not a build for everyone though, only those with access to Southern Magician (for those who don't know - it's a regional feat in FR).
I would be less excited about using Alternative spell source - since it would require: 1) access to dragon material 2) another lost caster level (not good)
Another option is to double DMM with a pure divine caster and DMM your twin (or repeat as you prefer) as well as Rapid spell (to duplicate Rapid Summoning - actually better since your summons aren't limited to a standard action on round 1). However, the 2 turn attempts for Rapid spell means that Nightsticks are pretty much a requirement (and no shower makes you feel clean after that).
With all the caster level boosts from Master Specialist, Feats, Gear, and buffs, it probably wouldn't matter much, would it?
I also thought of doing a divine version, something like (Not in this order)
Archivist 8/Thaumaturgist 5/Malconvoker 5/Sacred Exorcist 1/Paragnostic Apostle 1
You wouldn't get the hitpoint etc adjustments from Master Specialist, but you can use Dark Knowledge to boost your summons attacks/damage, and have a bound creature on top of everything as a cohort.
Yeah - I like the idea of Dark Knowledge plus summoning. Archivists are just awesome.
The text of the Invisible Spell feat, from Cityscape, says that it can be applied to 'any spell', and that it 'removes all visual manifestations' of the spell.
While I would probably house-rule the crap out of it if someone tried it, (especially with the +0 adjustment), it seems to me that, by RAW, the feat would effectively grant any summons you cast greater invis (and all the bonuses from that).
Has this been brought up/argued before. It seems like, at least in theory, a strong combo with all the other bonuses from Malconvoker.
I just had the following pointed out to me by someone.
The text of the Invisible Spell feat, from Cityscape, says that it can be applied to 'any spell', and that it 'removes all visual manifestations' of the spell.
While I would probably house-rule the crap out of it if someone tried it, (especially with the +0 adjustment), it seems to me that, by RAW, the feat would effectively grant any summons you cast greater invis (and all the bonuses from that).
Has this been brought up/argued before. It seems like, at least in theory, a strong combo with all the other bonuses from Malconvoker.
There was plenty of talk about that feat when Cityscape first came out. Invisible Summon Monster, Invisible Wall of Stone, Invisible Prismatic Sphere...the possibilities are endless. I think the consensus was to ask your DM. That feat can get a little silly.
I just had the following pointed out to me by someone.
The text of the Invisible Spell feat, from Cityscape, says that it can be applied to 'any spell', and that it 'removes all visual manifestations' of the spell.
While I would probably house-rule the crap out of it if someone tried it, (especially with the +0 adjustment), it seems to me that, by RAW, the feat would effectively grant any summons you cast greater invis (and all the bonuses from that).
Has this been brought up/argued before. It seems like, at least in theory, a strong combo with all the other bonuses from Malconvoker.
If your DM allows is - by RAW that's exactly what it does. I didn't bring it up on this thread because it had been debated extensively on the Summoning Handbook.
What I'm not convinced is that this is a huge advantage to you. Unlike the rogue whom you may cast I.I. on, you actually want your summoned creatures to be targets, specifically preferrable targets to your companions.
In my experience, summoned creatures with no AC or defensive enhancements (beyond the increased HP from various sources) don't die often. They tend to have enough HP that they can take incredible punishment from an enemy before going down. If your enemy is kind enough to waste his attacks on a spell effect rather than a party member (who will need to be healed assuming they survive), then that is a good thing.
Not saying invisible summoned creatures would never be useful - just that they would not be as great as it sounded.
Stretching the generosity of your DM for something not nearly as broken as it sounds may be a poor investment.
In my experiences with my groups, players and DM's tend to ignore summoned mobs anyway, unless they are forced not to. So the 50% miss chance wouldn't really come up a lot for me (and the fact that a LOT of people in our games tend to have some sort of detect/blindsight/see invis/etc means even that wouldn't matter as often).
I can see why you left it out of the guide though. I can easily see that being debated heavily and disallowed (especially with the +0 adjustment) in many campaigns.
Also, summoning 2 giant crocodiles to flank the enemy leaves the enemy with a choice: take 2 attacks of oppurtunity, or attack the crocs. Just coz most PCs have good tumble doesn't mean the enemies always do... And that's assuming those improved grab/grapple scores don't end up coming into play...
Look for awesome buff spells.
Unless I'm in a situation where I know, for certain, that I'm not going to have another fight that day AND I'm not going to need my actions to BFC/Buff the other players/debuff/damage the enemy, there's no way I'm wasting a spell slot nor a standard action buffing a summons. They're temporary objects that I hope die and waste an action or two on the part of my enemy, they aren't my friends.
Also, summoning 2 giant crocodiles to flank the enemy leaves the enemy with a choice: take 2 attacks of oppurtunity, or attack the crocs.
But the crocs have to be able to actually hit with those AOO's for them to matter, which was my point.
I generally try and summon things with BFC capabilities, usually, rather than 'combat monsters' (I.E. Spiders for Web, Bone Devils for Wall of Ice, Vrocks for TK, Voors for reach attacks, etc), so it will rarely come up anyway, but it'd be nice for when I want my fiendish tigers to pounce/maul someone for them to hit with all those secondary attacks (without me having to waste an extra round/spell buffing them first).
Unless I'm in a situation where I know, for certain, that I'm not going to have another fight that day AND I'm not going to need my actions to BFC/Buff the other players/debuff/damage the enemy, there's no way I'm wasting a spell slot nor a standard action buffing a summons. They're temporary objects that I hope die and waste an action or two on the part of my enemy, they aren't my friends.
Unless they are mass buffs that get your allies too. Those can be an excellent investment. However, avoid defensive buffs on summoned creatures - look for offensive buffing. Things like mass-fly can be fantastic as well. (I've also used Bone devils summoned on round 1, wait in flank and cast fly on all subsequent summons in the battle to reasonable effect)
However, I agree that single target buffs should never be wasted on summoned creatures.
But the crocs have to be able to actually hit with those AOO's for them to matter, which was my point.
I find the to-hit for summoned creatures isn't bad, especially with augment + flanking. Definitely you want to summon the creatures with the higher to hit probabilities, which I've recommended in this guide.
I've found the flanking with crocs technique C_R mentions to be particularly effective (when it's level appropriate). That gives you 2 attacks right away, and if either hit it activates improved grab (with a very nice grapple score), even if they both miss, movement of the enemy activates AoO's which gives you another chance.
If the AC of the enemy is just too good, another tactic I've used is to flank with large bugs, and have one attempt a grapple (provoking an AoO which will foil the grapple), and then attempt a grapple with the other bug (which, unless the enemy has Combat Reflexes, won't be foiled). This avoids the to-hit roll entirely if the AC of the enemy is too high (just a touch-attack needed). The grapple scores of those centipedes can be quite high for their level.
As you mention, Bone Devils can often force themselves to be a target by blocking other means of movement with walls of ice. You are getting 2 walls with one summon (and often a 3rd with a planar bind) that can leave bone devils guarding the only escape.
Other means to make your summoned creatures the best target exist, though you need to adjust your tactics for your situation.
I generally try and summon things with BFC capabilities, usually, rather than 'combat monsters' (I.E. Spiders for Web, Bone Devils for Wall of Ice, Vrocks for TK, Voors for reach attacks, etc), so it will rarely come up anyway, but it'd be nice for when I want my fiendish tigers to pounce/maul someone for them to hit with all those secondary attacks (without me having to waste an extra round/spell buffing them first).
I won't discount the value of a +4 to hit. Previously I was referring to the defensive properties of Invisible spell that would sound much better in theory than it would be in practice.
In any case, the most commonly discussed buff on these boards is haste. It fulfills every criteria that TML just stated. Mass Fly is definitely another good one, although it can also serve as a pre-combat buff, due to the min/level nature of it.
Alternatively, if you feel bad even sharing the buffs with your summons, consider debuffs like Ray of Exhaustion. -6 to str, -6 to dex essentially translates into +3 to hit, +3 to AC, DR 3/- for your team, including your summons. Ray of clumsiness gives a similar to hit "boost", while ray of exhaustion gives a similar AC/DR "boost". Remember, these "boosts" apply to whoever is fighting that particular enemy at the time. Summons and allies alike.
Also, as far as me 'hoping they die', I stand by that. Part of the power of summoned creatures is that they potentially take actions and power away from the enemy that would otherwise be spent doing harm to an actual PC. Every point of damage they take (except possibly burst damage), is a point of damage the fighter, rogue, cleric, or wizard of the party didn't take. It's a point the cleric doesn't have to blow an action or spell (or better, downtime) to heal. And it's a wasted action/spell/power/attack on the part of the enemy, potentially making the summon effectively just as much as a save or suck as a no-save nauseate would be. If my summons die before the fight is over, then they've fully returned the investment I made in casting the spell. But that's just my take on it.
(A snake familiar from PHB gives a nice +3 to the bluff checks. It could be added at the guide's first page).
If you drop Enchantment/Necromancy, I would say you have 3 options:
1) Get another party member involved. Another spellcaster may be able to debuff the Succubus for you.
2) Use repitition. Prepare several magic circles and cast several lesser planar bindings. Good chance you'll win the check with at least one, dismiss the rest.
3) Do what I did and bind a different creature (I bound an artaaglith from Ghostwalk. Cha 13 and casts as a 5th level Cleric, OK in combat, and a good dead animator).
Second i am been playing around with a gestat Cleric LN wee jas ) that is more or less a holy garish build and would the Malconvoker be a good 5 lvl dip in to bust his summoning and make him very much well rounded something that will turn a few heads
Current build
1 cleric / ranger Corpse crafter / feats (lvl 1) Corpsecafter (LM pg 25) Spell Focus (conjuration).
2 cleric / ranger
3 cleric / ranger / feats Augment Summoning
4 cleric / ranger
5 cleric / ranger
6 cleric / ranger / Nimble bones (LM pg 25)
7 cleric / ranger
8 cleric / Avenger
9 cleric / Avenger / Spontaneous Summoner (CD 85)
Note: it will most likely take me till level 11 due to skill requirements to qualify for this prestige class
Secondly, be aware that the PrC doesn't pay off until level 5. If your campaign is going to end before you get that 5th level, then it's not worth it. The big sacrifice of Malconvoker is at level 1, while the payoff is at level 5. Just something to consider.
Now, if it seems like I'm attempting to butter you up a bit, it's because I admittedly am. I've started work on a resource of my own that I believe would be a great complement to this work. As a contribution to Malconvokers everywhere, I would like to submit as a secondary guide my handbook to summoning evil outsiders, Practical Demonkeeping.
Your own perusal and commentary on my work would be greatly appreciated.
A million thanks, Treantmonklvl20, for your commitment to a flavorful, powerful class. Keep up the great work!
I am promising myself not to spend the vacation sitting in front of a computer, though I will likely spend at least some time in front of one, so I may be able to check it out within the next week. No promises though. Worst case scenario, I'll be checking it out next weekend.
Cheers,
Treantmonk
I'm interested in building an Archivist Malconvoker for the roleplaying factor, but am hitting a huge limitation of Planar Binding spells being wiz/sorc only. I have a feeling I'm overlooking something, however. Is there any way to get PB spells as divine?
The only way I can think of is Arcane Disciple (summoning), which doesn't work for the Archivist.
What would be the best way around this?
You don't need planar binding to qualify for Malconvoker, only SM3, which is a cleric spell, and therefore available for Archivists. Malconvoker GRANTS planar binding and adds it to your spell-list.
The celestial giant bee, is only good for one thing, the fact that it is the only non-aquatic summon at the time that can make a smite attack. (you need 3 hd to do it.).....+4 to hit, 1d4+5+poison...could probably do better, but will kill most CR1-2 creatures in one hit.
No cross post for joo...
You don't need planar binding to qualify for Malconvoker, only SM3, which is a cleric spell, and therefore available for Archivists. Malconvoker GRANTS planar binding and adds it to your spell-list.
Doh...GG me for not reading.
Oh my oh my, an excellent guide. As a long-time reader, first time poster, I do feel compelled to comment on how fantastically useful this resource is.
Now, if it seems like I'm attempting to butter you up a bit, it's because I admittedly am. I've started work on a resource of my own that I believe would be a great complement to this work. As a contribution to Malconvokers everywhere, I would like to submit as a secondary guide my handbook to summoning evil outsiders, Practical Demonkeeping.
Your own perusal and commentary on my work would be greatly appreciated.
A million thanks, Treantmonklvl20, for your commitment to a flavorful, powerful class. Keep up the great work!
I'm enjoying your guide so far. I've been a bit busy, my wife's mother passed away far too young (54), and we've been taking care of funeral arrangements.
Some of your evaluations I consider a bit optimistic (look at the first, the Babau demon, suggesting that when you get them flanking "watch the d6's fly" would of course require hitting, which they have trouble with for example...)
I think this guide will be particularly useful for Planar Binding decisions. Let me know when it's finished and I'll link it.
I'm enjoying your guide so far. I've been a bit busy, my wife's mother passed away far too young (54), and we've been taking care of funeral arrangements.
Some of your evaluations I consider a bit optimistic (look at the first, the Babau demon, suggesting that when you get them flanking "watch the d6's fly" would of course require hitting, which they have trouble with for example...)
I think this guide will be particularly useful for Planar Binding decisions. Let me know when it's finished and I'll link it.
I'm an ebullient writer, unfortunately, and I tend to dabble in hyperbole more than I should. As such, I appreciate the second opinions.
My condolences for your loss, by the way - it's a hard thing to deal with, and being there for your wife is absolutely crucial (but you knew that). Take as much time as you need to deal with her sudden absence - family should always take priority over other concerns.
Hey Treantmonk, I found the Malconvoker class and fell in love with the idea of it, so I searched for optimization info and found this! Its been a lot of help, and I'm now successfully playing a level 12 drow malconvoker in my friends campaign. I have one spell that you might be able to do something with thought, and I noticed it wasn't in your guide. "Greater Bestow Curse" from spell compendium seems like it would work very well for planar binding, namely the high level big charisma ones like Balor. Anyways, thanks again for this guide, and awesome work!
Ive sent a message to treantmonklvl20 about this, as a suggestion to edit the guide, but ill still post it here still for those who are interested.
first and foremost, being non-evil is only an ENTRY requirement, now for most classes these requirements stick with you throughout the class's progression (i.e. a paladin being LG, a monk being Lawful, a Barb being Chaotic, a cleric of what ever deity being a complimentary alignment to the deity, etc... etc...) all of the classes that i listed, along with a plethora of other classes specifically state "if you, as a monk, who becomes non-lawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retain all monk abilities etc... as a paladin who ceases to be lawful-good, who etc... loses all paladin spells and abilities.
now i could go on, and on with examples of classes that become ex-class but with the Malconvoker there is no such clause, this is to say that no where in the class section of complete scoundrel or in its respective errata does it say that you have to stay non-evil to continue advancing in the class after entering it from the first level, there are multiple ways to do this if you are starting a campaign at 7+ Character level then you could say yeah i became a malconvoker but i had a change of heart, manipulating is too fun im evil (this is only a singular situation) and still progress as a malconvoker with no penalties at all
so in all reality you are not limited to only neutral alignments for the fiendish summoning specialist, or pretty much anything sans the first level you take the class, more often than not at Class level 6 so 7+ you are golden for any alignment you want (baring DM discussion of course)
How to deal with counters
There is only one thing I terribly miss. And thats a 'How to deal with counters'-Section. I'm surely not a pro when it comes down to what is all possible or not in D&D 3.5. But when I think about a strategy I also think of how I would counter someone like this. Thats why I would be quite interested in how you deal with difficult situations.
I do not see much problems with mundane opponents. Let it be warriors, barbs, rogues and so on because they have to fight the creatures I summon and if they get tripped/grappled I can easily evade them.
One thing that is always a problem are stealthy assasins or snipers who can kill me in one round or lock me down till I'm dead. But there helps a called creature with blindsight/tremorsense/see invisible/true seeing or just incredible good spot/listen checks. (I still have to find one though but I'm sure they exist.)
When it comes to magic I see some problems already with the Level 1 Spell 'Protection from Evil' as it lets attacks with natural weapons fail and most creatures I can summon use natural weapons. At the moment we are level 8, so SM IV is the top spell and till then all creatures use natural weapons. OK, I can try to dispel it but then I'm actionwise very on the defensive side and I would want to use my level 3 spell slots more for Summon Monster than Dispel Magic. (Maybe even a damned cure spell for my allies but surely not to dispel a level 1 spell.)
At the moment we play at level 8 so all creatures that I can summon and deal damage use natural weapons. First one that uses weapons is the Chain Devil from SM VI I think.
The next problem is of course the 'Antimagic Field' spell which puts every caster in big amounts of trouble. But most of the time I force the enemy caster in an antimagic field so he negates his own abilities I can try to evade this 'bubble' and am on the winning side. (Or go meele and have the benefit of still wearig full plate.)
Bigger problem are magic Items with those spells. As you pointed out I can try to summon creatures with high spell resistance and as soon as I have Fiendish Legion coupled with Repeat Spell I get enough monsters in the battle to maybe win a SR roll but it feels like throwing an immense power to hope for a small outcome which means a win for the enemy even if one or 2 creatures are able to attack.
Called creatures are not that vulnerable to these 2 spells and as a good malconvoker I should nearly always have a 'called'-bodyguard at hand. But still I think I miss something and would be interested in how pros handle situations like this, or see difficulties in other situations. (And a way to beat them.)
Raining monsters
How you would handle this? With the Summon Monster Spell I'm not limited of summoning those things on the ground level. I could summon them on top of my enemies. Especially if they are caster/ranged foes who normaly stand still, or even meeles on the skirmish line. OK, it could hurt my fiendish ape if he falls 20' down on this caster, but who cares and it could hurt the caster much more if he gets hit by a 400 pound, yelling, biting and really angry meatball. ('Beware the Malconvokers are comming it's raining apes!' ^^)
Difficulties with twin spell
I read a couple of times you would use Twin spell to increase the number of creatures summoned. But since all decisions "(including target and area)" are copied for the second spell that would mean you would summon the second creatures at the same spot, so within the first creatures. That doesn't sound very healthy to me and even if this wouldn't bother me by a fiendish creature I do not see the benefit.
Raining monsters
How you would handle this? With the Summon Monster Spell I'm not limited of summoning those things on the ground level. I could summon them on top of my enemies. Especially if they are caster/ranged foes who normaly stand still, or even meeles on the skirmish line. OK, it could hurt my fiendish ape if he falls 20' down on this caster, but who cares and it could hurt the caster much more if he gets hit by a 400 pound, yelling, biting and really angry meatball. ('Beware the Malconvokers are comming it's raining apes!' ^^)
I don't think this would work, I always took the part of Summon Monster that says they "cannot be summoned into an environment that doesn't support them" to also include poofing land animals into the sky. Technicalities are always tough, but I know this wouldn't be allowed in my groups.
Jup. I think you are right. So no raining monsters.
Regardless, great guide!
Here's a favorite trick: At level 1, be a (Focused Specialist) Conjurer. take Heighten Spell, Metamagic School Focus, and Summon Elemental. You now have a Small pet.
A human or strongheart halfling can also take Augment Elemental (Magic of Eberron 46).
The feat Planar Touchstone: Summoner Domain gives +2 CL on Conjuration (Calling/Summoning) spells.
Favored Soul's who go this route can dump wisdom. Who would beat their bluff checks? Seems odd that this class wasn't mentioned.
i can't understand one thing: in your summonable monsters list you always wrote many more HP than in the monster manual (also calculating the malconvoker's special abilities).. why?
That's factoring in the Malconvoker abilities, the feat Augment Summoning, and later on, he assumes you would have a Ring of Mighty Summons and calculates based on that.
And what about faster summoning? Rapid spell and metamagic school focus are the way to go? Is there a better solution?
Is it worthwhile to start playing a malconvoker build at wizard lvl 4 without the UA variant rules (they're prohibitted in the campaign I will soon join)? I mean, is it playable a build made only with core and complete books?
And what about faster summoning? Rapid spell and metamagic school focus are the way to go? Is there a better solution?
I definitely believe they are playable that way - that's what I did. Honestly, I never had that many problems with needing faster summoning. If you slap on a Ring of Invisibility, you won't be visible summoning your monsters, and unless you're fighting extremely intelligent creatures they will often not realize these things are being summoned. I used to love summoning Fiendish Dire Tigers behind a tree line while invisible and then having them charge and pounce...baddies just thought they had horrible luck. However, if you really need the quicker summons, yes, Rapid Spell and Metamagic School Focus are an effective way to go.
Archivist 5 / Malconvoker 5 / Sacred Exorcist 1 / Thaumaturgist 5 / Contemplative 1 / Malconvoker 3
(If your DM is strict on the special requirements, you can tell him or her that your character is a Contemplative of the angel who wrote the Vital Pact, and you can use deception to get the right to be a Sacred Exorcist)
Feats :
Lvl 1 : Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Lvl 3 : Augment Summoning
Lvl 6 : Rapid Spell
Lvl 9 : Metamagic School Focus (Conjuration)
Lvl 12 : Twin Spell
Lvl 15 : Divine Metamagic (Twin Spell)
Lvl 18 : Sudden Maximize
It gets better if your DM lets you retrain Augment Summoning when you get it from Thaumaturgist 2 (I hear that some DMs do).
You can also have an other feat if you are human, Cloudy Conjuration, Demon Mastery and Summon Elemental are all great.
At low levels, you can use Summon Nature's Allies and the ability to grant your minions an Attack bonus using Dark Knowledge.
At mid levels you can Rapid Summon 3 times a day (Rapid Summoning is better this way than the Conjurer UA variant way because your summons get a Full Round Action instead of a Standard Action).
At high levels, you get a Planar Cohort and you can cast 2 Twin Spells if you have a 18 base CHA and a +6 Enhancement bonus item, it's not too much to ask since you already need a high CHA for planar binding and since you can easily grant yourself a +3 or +4 innate bonus using Extract Gift. If you really can't afford the CHA, you should think about taking Extra Turning as a feat or taking Repeat Spell instead of Twin Spell.
When you get the Bonus Domain from Contemplative, choose the Trickery Domain, you now add Time Stop to your spell list. You can then Sudden Maximize Time Stop at the beginning of the encounter. Of course, Sudden Maximize can also be used to summon the maximum number of monsters from a lower level spell because 5 (or 10, if using Twin Spell) Vrocks in one spell isn't that bad either.
I'm waiting for your comments and tips.
Thank you Treantmonk for this amazing guide.
robe of mysterious conjuration
i think it's a must-have
What is the distinction between summoned creatures and bound creatures?
I.e a summoned chump from SM1-9 can't use teleport or summon spells / abilities, but can, say, a Balor from a malconvoker 8 use his innate summons?
Links / references to pages where I can look up these rules would be much appreciated
First let me say that I rolled some insane stats for my new character. I got 9,10,10,15,18,18.
My first question is which way to go, Archivist or Conjurer? Archivists are proficent with medimum armor so I thought that was good. However I don't know an easy way to get around spell casting penalties. Archivists also have d6 health and can get knowledge in anything. This makes it seem easier to qualify for malconvoker faster. However I am aware that there is strong benifits for playing a conjurer as well. I'm just wondering if they out weigh the archivist.
My second question is what item's do I invest in? The ring of mighty summons seems nice, also the extent rod or w/e seems interesting as well.
my third question is, where are all of these evil aligned creatures located? Can someone give me the books for these creatures.
My fourth question is, where can I find all these various feats?
My fifth question is, where do I distribute my stats? I know one of my 18's are going to be Int however should cha be 15 or 18? What should I do with the other stats? Which do I dump and which do I invest in?
What is a race that synergizes with being malconvoker? I know humans are never A bad choice but, what are some other good races?
Please don't suggest things that are completely cheesy.
Thanks, AT.
can an evil character become a malconvoker?
i don't mean through a change in his alignment?
let's say i have a lawful evil fifth level wizard, can he become a malconvoker thanks to what is written in the "adaption" section?
thanks
a silly question from Italy.
can an evil character become a malconvoker?
i don't mean through a change in his alignment?
let's say i have a lawful evil fifth level wizard, can he become a malconvoker thanks to what is written in the "adaption" section?
thanks
i dont have my books with me or my pdf lists but i believe that the malconvoker just has to be non good... if im wrong and the actual requirement limits evil then all id do is say "hey mr. dm can i do this" really no reason not to every dm has his own thoughts though.
my story explains it all.
I have the most speciailized wizard possible for malconvoker i have take specialist and then the ua variant for uber specialist. what i lose from there i gain in summon abilities. i also took the reserve feat for summoning elementals. so as a standard action i can summon an elemental that lasts for 5 rouneds (im a 10th level caster so 5th level slot is my highest.) but since im a malconvoker and this resvere feat says that you cast it as any other summon monster spell with a few exceptions it comes into play with my full feat enhancement. i have rashemi elemental and i took the conjurer specialization out of pathfinder, also i have taken a feat from a dragon magazine saying i can add the evil discriptor to all of my summons (corrupt summoning) so now my little evil air elemental is affected by all my malconvoker feats including the double duration you can apply to any evil creature u summon. so for 10 rounds i have this small elemental with a strength that is gettnig a nice boost from augment summoning as well as the conjurer specialization (+2 con and str) and rashemi gives him a boost also. now i have a little friend i can summon in 3 seconds that lasts 1 minute. as he is summoned as a standard he still only gets a standard action when cast. his standard action is always to grapple me from the back and hold me aloft. so now i have a small air elemental that i can talk to ( i speak a ton of languages including all the elmental languages) now i can cast and act freely using my elemental to move me around during combat and while out of combat. with a 100 ft fly with perfect maneuverabilty i can out run/ out maneuver anyone else in the campaign. unleashing my elementals to do massive damage and be overall nuisances for anything that wants to fight.
The most important thing for a conjurer is to be creative and know his summons. have your list of summons ready hell i name them all and say im summoning the same ones over and over. i play a 10th level malconvoker and when i show up to d&d i set up my lap top because carrying around 15-20 character sheets would be ridiculous and trying to fit everything on a notecard sucks.
my character is chaotic neutral i do whatever i want but i never know what i want until im doing it. the rest of the part is neutral to good with only 1 other chaotic person and even he has trouble keeping up with my "fly by the seat of my pants" play style. my best friends in the game are my guardian earth elementals i summon. i use pathfinder spell lists so at 10th level i can summon one large elemental. using malconvoker and my feats i get my 2 large earth elementals wich insane abilities. pretty much if they are between u and me, u will never get to me. names Igneous and Shard. oh and my small air elementals name is whisp. whisp keeps me alive igneous and shard stop u in your tracks and Tempest and Storm (my 2 large airelementals, they are also husband and wife) kick u in the face over and over again.
adding flavor to the game makes play style so much more fun. everyone hates my character in game but out of game we have more stories about Nemek (my malconvokers name) than any other character.
First of all this is a great guide. In my group I was 'forced' to play a cleric/druid so we have at least a decent healer. As I found this guide I jumped happily into the air because I found a way how I can be a healer and a summoner/caller whats my true passion. (I already have a reputation of abusing fiendish apes. ^^)
How to deal with counters
There is only one thing I terribly miss. And thats a 'How to deal with counters'-Section. I'm surely not a pro when it comes down to what is all possible or not in D&D 3.5. But when I think about a strategy I also think of how I would counter someone like this. Thats why I would be quite interested in how you deal with difficult situations.
I do not see much problems with mundane opponents. Let it be warriors, barbs, rogues and so on because they have to fight the creatures I summon and if they get tripped/grappled I can easily evade them.
One thing that is always a problem are stealthy assasins or snipers who can kill me in one round or lock me down till I'm dead. But there helps a called creature with blindsight/tremorsense/see invisible/true seeing or just incredible good spot/listen checks. (I still have to find one though but I'm sure they exist.)
When it comes to magic I see some problems already with the Level 1 Spell 'Protection from Evil' as it lets attacks with natural weapons fail and most creatures I can summon use natural weapons. At the moment we are level 8, so SM IV is the top spell and till then all creatures use natural weapons. OK, I can try to dispel it but then I'm actionwise very on the defensive side and I would want to use my level 3 spell slots more for Summon Monster than Dispel Magic. (Maybe even a damned cure spell for my allies but surely not to dispel a level 1 spell.)
At the moment we play at level 8 so all creatures that I can summon and deal damage use natural weapons. First one that uses weapons is the Chain Devil from SM VI I think.
The next problem is of course the 'Antimagic Field' spell which puts every caster in big amounts of trouble. But most of the time I force the enemy caster in an antimagic field so he negates his own abilities I can try to evade this 'bubble' and am on the winning side. (Or go meele and have the benefit of still wearig full plate.)
Bigger problem are magic Items with those spells. As you pointed out I can try to summon creatures with high spell resistance and as soon as I have Fiendish Legion coupled with Repeat Spell I get enough monsters in the battle to maybe win a SR roll but it feels like throwing an immense power to hope for a small outcome which means a win for the enemy even if one or 2 creatures are able to attack.
Called creatures are not that vulnerable to these 2 spells and as a good malconvoker I should nearly always have a 'called'-bodyguard at hand. But still I think I miss something and would be interested in how pros handle situations like this, or see difficulties in other situations. (And a way to beat them.)
Raining monsters
How you would handle this? With the Summon Monster Spell I'm not limited of summoning those things on the ground level. I could summon them on top of my enemies. Especially if they are caster/ranged foes who normaly stand still, or even meeles on the skirmish line. OK, it could hurt my fiendish ape if he falls 20' down on this caster, but who cares and it could hurt the caster much more if he gets hit by a 400 pound, yelling, biting and really angry meatball. ('Beware the Malconvokers are comming it's raining apes!' ^^)
Difficulties with twin spell
I read a couple of times you would use Twin spell to increase the number of creatures summoned. But since all decisions "(including target and area)" are copied for the second spell that would mean you would summon the second creatures at the same spot, so within the first creatures. That doesn't sound very healthy to me and even if this wouldn't bother me by a fiendish creature I do not see the benefit.
twinning just like summoning normally wont allow you to summon anything inside of a solid object. in this case the other summoned creature is merely pushed out to the first available adjacent square. i DEFINETLY see the benefit to twinning a summon monster spell. since each spell resolves independently. with a malconvoker over 5th level summoning your highest level summon monster to summon my big bad creature i would instead get 4 of that creature. 1 per summon +1 for malconvoker ability x 2 for twin spell. so having 4 big baddies in one standard action that each get a standard action is very nice and you can 2 on one side and 2 on the other with standard actions for each you can have them surround your enemey with charges/ strategic moves and you have probably toppled the dms idea of what CR your party should be able to handle.
a silly question from Italy.
can an evil character become a malconvoker?
i don't mean through a change in his alignment?
let's say i have a lawful evil fifth level wizard, can he become a malconvoker thanks to what is written in the "adaption" section?
thanks
Even the adaptation section doesn't really suggest an adaptation where the flavor is more evil; in fact, it suggests ways to make the class less morally ambiguous. Therefore, as written, evil is a no-go.
However, as with all things, you might be able to talk your DM into allowing it anyway. A solid RP reason can go a long way.
his standard action is always to grapple me from the back and hold me aloft. so now i have a small air elemental that i can talk to ( i speak a ton of languages including all the elmental languages) now i can cast and act freely using my elemental to move me around during combat and while out of combat. with a 100 ft fly with perfect maneuverabilty i can out run/ out maneuver anyone else in the campaign. unleashing my elementals to do massive damage and be overall nuisances for anything that wants to fight.
whisp keeps me alive igneous and shard stop u in your tracks and Tempest and Storm (my 2 large earth elementals, they are also husband and wife) kick u in the face over and over again.
adding flavor to the game makes play style so much more fun. everyone hates my character in game but out of game we have more stories about Nemek (my malconvokers name) than any other character.
+1 for the awesome, creative uses you've got here. And +1 for your playstyle and rp flavor. I wish more players had a similar mindset
Is THAT important to get Rapid Spell, DMM Rapid Spell? I wanted to go Twin or Repeat spell DMM.
Any other way to accelerate casting for a cleric?
Is it best to take Cloistered cleric or standard cleric?
i was thinking something like 5 cleric/malconvoker with trickery domain and magic domain
What about class features? Dinvine Magician worth it? Planar turning?
Im THE healer and battle controller, even buffer, thats why I need something hard to beat.
Stats.... WIS.CHA.CON.INT.DEX.STR
Where can I find a Rod of Rapid Spell? Is that core? Or where? how much is it?
Is THAT important to get Rapid Spell, DMM Rapid Spell? I wanted to go Twin or Repeat spell DMM.
Any other way to accelerate casting for a cleric?
Is it best to take Cloistered cleric or standard cleric?
i was thinking something like 5 cleric/malconvoker with trickery domain and magic domain
What about class features? Dinvine Magician worth it? Planar turning?
Im THE healer and battle controller, even buffer, thats why I need something hard to beat.
Stats.... WIS.CHA.CON.INT.DEX.STR
You're thinking of the metamagic rod quicken. lessen runs for 35k, normal runs for 75.5k, greater runs for 170k. However I would suggest rather go for paying for your metamagic with turn undeads. You should not be trying to cover so many roles, tell your party to make a controller. Malconvoker's aren't controller at least not as a primary one.
Where can I find a Rod of Rapid Spell? Is that core? Or where? how much is it?
Is THAT important to get Rapid Spell, DMM Rapid Spell? I wanted to go Twin or Repeat spell DMM.
Any other way to accelerate casting for a cleric?
Is it best to take Cloistered cleric or standard cleric?
i was thinking something like 5 cleric/malconvoker with trickery domain and magic domain
What about class features? Dinvine Magician worth it? Planar turning?
Im THE healer and battle controller, even buffer, thats why I need something hard to beat.
Stats.... WIS.CHA.CON.INT.DEX.STR
You're thinking of the metamagic rod quicken. lessen runs for 35k, normal runs for 75.5k, greater runs for 170k. However I would suggest rather go for paying for your metamagic with turn undeads. You should not be trying to cover so many roles, tell your party to make a controller. Malconvoker's aren't controller at least not as a primary one.
Yes, the problem is that our party is small... we have a rogue with few hp and a paladin and me... and so far thats it. Were having problem with ppl... thats why I need to cover a few roles
Where can I find a Rod of Rapid Spell? Is that core? Or where? how much is it?
Is THAT important to get Rapid Spell, DMM Rapid Spell? I wanted to go Twin or Repeat spell DMM.
Any other way to accelerate casting for a cleric?
Is it best to take Cloistered cleric or standard cleric?
i was thinking something like 5 cleric/malconvoker with trickery domain and magic domain
What about class features? Dinvine Magician worth it? Planar turning?
Im THE healer and battle controller, even buffer, thats why I need something hard to beat.
Stats.... WIS.CHA.CON.INT.DEX.STR
You're thinking of the metamagic rod quicken. lessen runs for 35k, normal runs for 75.5k, greater runs for 170k. However I would suggest rather go for paying for your metamagic with turn undeads. You should not be trying to cover so many roles, tell your party to make a controller. Malconvoker's aren't controller at least not as a primary one.
Yes, the problem is that our party is small... we have a rogue with few hp and a paladin and me... and so far thats it. Were having problem with ppl... thats why I need to cover a few roles
You should try to find another person before you start your game.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
Even better, if you use the "Divine Magician" alternative class feature for Clerics, mentioned in the first post, and add Moment of Prescience to your Cleric spell list. By the time you are at the level where you can bind a Balor you'll have a massive +46 bonus to your bluff skill just from two spells (Glibness and Moment of Prescience)!
Cleric Domains should be Summoner (for spells) and Trickery (for domain power)
Conjurer should use the Empowered Summoning and Rapid Summoning varients
Focused Specialist is also an option but is not as important as it is in a non-gestalt campaign (you should have plenty of spells for conjuring and other tasks, especially if you make good use of conjured creatures SLA)
Int and Wis will both need to be high to complete both spellcasting progressions, and a high charisma score will be a big help for those skill checks you will need to be making. Physical ability scores are less important, especially with a few tricks I'll get into later on, making the Dice Pool method of ability score generation from Pathfinder great for this - hey its a highpowered campaign anyways right, so why not use the 28 dice version too.
Your actual first level feat selection should be the Apprentice feat (Philosophy or Spellcaster) from DMGII with intent to convert to Mentor when you graduate from the apprenticeship at 5th lvl, which works out well since thats when you can qualify for the Malconvoker PrC at next lvl up meaning you are now both less worried and more worried about what your mentor might think of you final carreer choice (roleplaying hook). At 9th character level (4th lvl Malconvoker) your own apprentice has reached 5th character level and graduates from the apprenticeship going from NPC to cohort. You begin teaching a new 1st lvl apprentice who will remain an NPC when they graduate at your 13th character level, as will the new 1st lvl apprentice at your 17th character level. As a roleplaying option you can give each of these next two graduates an Amanuensis copy of the Vital Pact as a graduation present with the truenames of two fiends added in your own hand, so as to not merely practice Malconvoky, but to actually spread its teachings.
When your cohort apprentice (who should be more or less a lower level EXPY of you) reaches 9th caster level in conjurer, you can Magic Jar (non-evil necromancy spell) yourself into a physically stronger body (a convicted criminal facing death, weak-willed enemy, or maybe even a called fiend if you can arrange to return you new body to the Material Plane, to name a few good candidates) into whom you can now bind yourself perminently by having your apprentice cast Imprison Possessor (BoVD, abjuration) on you. Wait a day for him to restore and prepair a new 5th lvl wiz spell and you can do the same for him tomorrow
.This meshes well with the Malconvoker's theme of morally ambiguous but no-evil acts that turn evil against evil very well, and it makes it easier to convince the fiends you work with that you are more like them. You should probably take care to keep your real body safe and close, just incase this effect gets dispelled, suppressed or negated after magic jars duration has expired.
This is also a good reason NOT to prohibit Necromancy, or abjuration which you shouldn't be considering anyway. This makes it pretty much Enchantment, Evocation and either Illusion or Transmutation for Focused specialists, but given a tough choice like that, you might want to think long and hard about whether or not you really need to be a focused specialist in a gestalt campaign.
If you play a Human you can also squeeze in Spell Focus (Conjuration) at 1st lvl to qualify for the Master Specialist PrC, and save taking it at 3rd lvl to qualify for Malconvoker letting you take something else instead. Master Specialist must replace your Conjurer class in the gestalt mix.
Malconvoker should replace Cleric and assign its spellcasting level progression to that.
You probably want to take a fourth lvl of Master Specialist after gaining Fiendish Legion before completing the Malconvoker progression. You will then be a 15th lvl character with the full class features of the Malconvoker, an 11th lvl conjurer (10th lvl Enhanced Summons UA varient), a 4th lvl Master Specialist, the turn undead abilities of a 6th lvl cleric, spellcasting of a 14th lvl cleric, and a 15th lvl specialist wizard (with various heightened caster levels for conjuration, calling and summoning spells in both spellcasting progressions). Such is the power of the gestalt.
From there you can continue as either a Master Specialist-Cleric but you won't be able to unlock the potent rapid summoning + major school estoria combo unless you go into epic levels since you can only reach 9th lvl in the PrC before reaching 20th character lvl (unless you're willing to sacrifice the ninth lvl of Malconvoker and Safe Summons), or as a a conjurer-cleric to pick up the 15th lvl enhanced summoner ability at a minimum of 19th character lvl, with the final level put into Master Specialist. You could also trade a few more of those cleric lvls (or maybe a conjurer lvl, at least for now) for levels in the Paragonistic Apostle PrC, which could also cut into the Master Specialist in either this (4 lvl Master Specialist only) or the above build (going to 5th-8th lvl Master Specialist and 1st or 2nd lvl Paragonic Apostle).
Feat selection is otherwise pretty much the same as any othe malconvoker, except as noted above. Also the leadership feat is another way that you could expand on the "spreading the word of the Vital Pact" roleplaying option, by giving amenuensis copies to adept followers just like the apprentices, mabye the Leadership feats cohort too if the DM allows it and the Mentorship cohort and it is a spellcaster that could qualify for the Malconvoker PrC as well. Although, if the DM does allow the second cohort, it should probably be of some other class-role type.
I quote: "You can modify any spell you cast so that it carries no visual manifestation" +0 spell level metamagic. FANTASTIC for summoners... if a little broken.
Here's my take on the Malconvoker.. after looking it over for a bit, I came up with this build. I've also gone over it a couple of times to make sure everything adds up correctly. So, hopefully there's no mistakes in it.Malconvoker (Complete Scoundrel) - Augment Summoning & Spell Focus (Conjuration) & cast Sum. Mon. III
Master Specialist (Complete Mage) [Conjuration] - Spell Focus (Conjuration) & be a specialist wizard
Wyrm Wizard (Dragon Magic)
Conjurer 3/Master Specialist 2/Malconvoker 5/Master Specialst 3-10/Wyrm Wizard 2 - lose 2 spell casting levels (1 from Malconvoker & 1 from Wyrm Wizard)
Schools of magic to give up:
Enchantment - No Domination spells for me.. that's why a monster will dominate for me!
Evocation (7th level spells are gotten from Shadow Evocation, Greater [Illusion] PHB)
Feats:
1) Augment Summoning (PHB), Spell Focus (Conjuration) [PHB], Extend Spell (PHB) +1 spell slot
3) Quicken Spell (PHB) +4 spell slot
6) Arcane Thesis (PHBII) - use with Extend Spell for summon monster.
9) Summon Elemental Reserve Feat (CM)
12) Twin Spell (CA) - +4 spell slot
15) Repeat Spell (CA) - +3 spell slot
18) Heighten Spell (PHB) - +1 to +8 slot
Alternate Class Features:
Rapid Summoning (Conjurer) [UA] - All summons are a standard action. With Master Specialist 10, you can summon 2 creatures a turn (1 swift and 1 standard) which will actually be 4 creatures with fiendish legion (Malconvoker 5 ability)
use the UA variant that gives up scribe scroll for Augment Summoning (so you dont have to take the feat)
Items to buy: - 760,000 gold for 20th level character.
Headband of Intellect +6 - 36,000 gp
Tome of Clear Thought +5 - 137,000 gp.
Pearl of Power - 64,000 gp (8th level spells) - able to regain 1 8th level spell/day
Ring of Mighty SUmmons (CM - 14,000 gp - max hp but half duration 3/day
Elhonna's Brooch (CC pg.134) - +1 hp/HD for all summons
Nature's Children (CC pg. 135) - +1 Caster level for summoning
Desperation Chain (MiC) - 15,000 - Lets you cast a 3rd level or lower spell while grappled.. summon 2 3rd level monsters to get the guy off your back. 1/day
The meat of the build:
Arcane Fusion, Greater (CM) - You don't lose any spell slots when casting the sub-spells of arcane fusion, meaning you can apply metamagic feats to them for no cost! I took Wyrm Wizard to get this spell.. meaning I can now cast 1 7th level summon creature spell & 1 4th level summon creature spell and get 4 creatures. Load them up with metamagic feats.. like twin spell, repeat spell metamagic for a total of 8 summons the first round (4 normally + twin spell) and 8 the 2nd round all for free
This translates into:
Round 1:
Cast Arcane Fusion, Greater and get 4 monsters (2 level 7's & 2 level 4's). Now you apply twin, quicken, extend and repeat on these spells meaning that you get another 2 monsters of each level now totaling 8 monsters (4 7th level & 4 4th level due to twin). Quicken's not going to do anything this round, it'll help next round tho. Total for the round is 8.
Round 2: - The crazyness ensues!
Because of repeat spell, the 7th level summon monster spell is repeated along with the twin spell applied to it, giving you 8 monsters automatically. Your also able to cast AF,G once more this round due to Quicken (giving you another 8 monsters.
The total monsters now are 28 [8(Round 1)+24(Round 2)].
8 from repeated twinned casting of summon monster 4 and 7 from last round
8 from arcane fusion, greater casting (4 of each + twinned and repeated)
8 from quickened arcane fusion, greater from last round
Round 3: - It comes to an end!
We actually run out of AF,G spells to cast, unless you have a INT of at least 34 to be able to cast it 2 more times.
As long as you can keep casting AF,G, from here on out every round the totals will always be like round 2 (8+16+8[manual casting AF,G]).
The total this round will be 56 [8(r1)+24(r2)+24(r3)].
Round 4: This is where it actually runs out.
The reason being that it actually runs is:
Round 1: You cast 1 AF,G
Round 2: You cast 2
Round 3: You cast 2 - You normally run out here if you dont have that 34 INT by only casting 1 AF,G
Round 4: Your able to cast 1 (with a Headband of Intellect +6 and a Tome of Clear Thought +5)
Round 4 totals would be 80 [8(r1)+24(r2)+24(r3)+24(r4)]
Round 5: - This is the Repeated Twinned summoning from Round 4 since you have nothing else to cast
Total now is 88. [8(r1)+24(r2)+24(r3)+24(r4)+8(r5)]
Taking Treants advice, the creatures that you would be using to summon with Summon Monster IV and VII are Howlers and Bone Devils.. lots and lots of them.
Mind you, these are all under the effect extend spell, which means that they're actually normal duration while using the Ring of Mighty Summons.
Summon Elemental Reserve Feat:
Any elemental that you summon from this feat is affected by fiendish legion (Malconvoker 5), meaning that for free, you can summon 2 elementals of your choosing! Use this when you run out of higher level summoning spells.
HD Example:
Using a Colossal Monsterous Fiendish Spider as the example
It has 32d8+64 HP, which totals 256+64=320
with Infernal Fury+Augment Summoning, your spider is getting an extra 64 hp x2. 256+64+64+64(CON)=448
With Minor School Esoterica, your spider will get an extra 20 hp. 256+64+64+64+20=468
Along with Elhonna's Brooch, that gives you another 32 hp. 256+64+64+64++20+32=500
Total CL:
18 - Normal
+1 - Summon Elemental Reserve Feat
+1 - Nature's Children
+2 - Master Specialist
--
22
Cheese Note:
At 18 you have Heighten (cause you'll get AF,G when your 19) and when you cast your summoning subspells through AF,G, you'll just be summoning Fiendish Colossal Monsterous Spiders.. 8 at a time. Time to run over the countryside!
You can also use Heighten as a +1 metamagic so that Arcane Thesis will negate it, meaning that all of your normal Summon Monster Spells will be the next Summon Monster spell up (ie: Summon Monster 3 turns into IV).
P.S. - Treantmonklvl20, your guide is awesome. I love it!
Greetings!
It's legal?
"The meat of the build:
Arcane Fusion, Greater (CM) - You don't lose any spell slots when casting the sub-spells of arcane fusion, meaning you can apply metamagic feats to them for no cost! I took Wyrm Wizard to get this spell.. meaning I can now cast 1 7th level summon creature spell & 1 4th level summon creature spell and get 4 creatures. Load them up with metamagic feats.. like twin spell, repeat spell metamagic for a total of 8 summons the first round (4 normally + twin spell) and 8 the 2nd round all for free."
Thanks!
If you encounter a DM that allows it, however, no need to be a Malconvoker. Just use Arcane Fusion to Persist all imaginable buffs on you and your party...
Thanks man!
Another question, please. The metamagic feat arcane thesis can be used to summon monster "X". But I have to specify I, II, III ... or the feat will work for all of them?
GG!