Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 laudengi May 19, 2009 11:45:17	1-25 LvL Progression Something great against other evil players...I don't want to lose to them XD No Psionics - 3.5e Books only - Nothing with an infinite loop or to extreme - Got a pseudo strict GM... The other builds were okay.. but the GM just told me what the party was like so it changes things.. I don't like spreading builds to thin with like 8 classes.... ruins Roleplay...IMO No Race with more than an ECL 1
#2 phoenix00 May 19, 2009 13:43:39	now what do you want to play?
#3 Senevri May 19, 2009 14:01:32	Elf Crusader/Swordsage/Warblade/Cleric/Stoneblessed 3/Bloodclaw Master/Bloodstorm Blade/Suel Arcanamach 2/Deepstone Sentinel/Eternal Blade/Jade Phoenix Mage/Ruby Knight Vindicator/Shadow Sun Ninja/Master of Nine. Not necessarily in that order. Oh, wait, that went WAY over the allocated limit. Sorry. It's just a pre-epic useless build I like. More unrealized potential than you can shake a stick at, too... Oh, I had a point too - NEED MORE INFO. Current suggestions: Immortal Sorcerer Ruby Knight Windicator Killer Gnome Planar Chaos Mage Beshadowed Blade ( or some variant thereof ) Shadow Sun Binder SAD charisma-or-int Gish .... and so on and so forth.
#4 pyro_azer May 19, 2009 14:40:24	Wizard The best part about this class is the options you have going into epic levels.
#5 carnivore May 19, 2009 14:52:04	What level are you starting from? .... 1st lvl really? Human Wizard 20/ EPIC Wizard 5 .... is actually a decent choice, lots of Extra Feats, even a Bonus EPIC feat ... great Spell casting but to get what you want...we need more info :D
#6 pyro_azer May 19, 2009 14:53:22	What level are you starting from? .... 1st lvl really? Human Wizard 20/ EPIC Wizard 5 .... is actually a decent choice, lots of Extra Feats, even a Bonus EPIC feat ... great Spell casting but to get what you want...we need more info :D Epic loremaster is even better. They get a bonus feat every three levels.
#7 carnivore May 19, 2009 14:58:33	true... but @ 25th.... both only get a single Bonus Feat(Wiz @23rd, 26th ... same for Loremaster).... but you dont have to spend Feats to Qualify for it(wasteful feats).... you can spend them on things to make yourself stronger :D
#8 carnivore May 19, 2009 15:10:20	exa: Human Wizard 20/ EPIC Wizard 5 Feats: 1 Bonus(Human) 5 Bonus(Wizard)(Scribe Scroll +4 of Choice(metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Spell Mastery)) 1 Bonus EPIC(EPIC wizard) 7 regular Feats of Choice 2 regular EPIC feats of Choice vs Human Wizard 10/ Loremaster 10/ EPIC Loremaster 5 Feats: 1 Bonus(Human) 3 Bonus(Wizard)(Scribe Scroll +4 of Choice(metamagic feat, an item creation feat, or Spell Mastery)) 1 Bonus (Loremaster) 1 Bonus EPIC(EPIC Loremaster) 7 regular Feats of Choice 2 regular EPIC feats of Choice basiclly Wizard 20/ EPIC Wizard 5 has 2 more feats, since one feat is Burned on Skill Focus to qualify for Loremaster :D
#9 phaedrusxy May 19, 2009 22:14:10	The loremaster's familiar can use his Staff of the Magi, though. :D
#10 carnivore May 20, 2009 4:23:02	The loremaster's familiar can use his Staff of the Magi, though. :D actually the Wizard 20/ EPIC Wizard 5 has an even stronger Familiar... since it also gets a Bonus Feat (Familiar spell), and its abilities continue to increase :D
#11 wings_of_peace May 20, 2009 4:29:19	When you say against evil player's do you mean competitively or in combat... cause if its in combat Righteous Exile from Fiendish Codex II is basically a universal no save go die against evil though given that it's an aoe when used against monsters it's probably gonna hurt your allies a bit too...
#12 phaedrusxy May 20, 2009 10:11:56	actually the Wizard 20/ EPIC Wizard 5 has an even stronger Familiar... since it also gets a Bonus Feat (Familiar spell), and its abilities continue to increase :D I meant Loremaster has Use Magic Device as a class skill, and familiars use their master's skill ranks. So a Loremaster's familiar can use magic items via UMD. I'd forgotten about the Familiar Spell feat. So that's basically another bonus feat for the wiz 25.
#13 carnivore May 20, 2009 11:07:50	I meant Loremaster has Use Magic Device as a class skill, and familiars use their master's skill ranks. So a Loremaster's familiar can use magic items via UMD. I'd forgotten about the Familiar Spell feat. So that's basically another bonus feat for the wiz 25. good point, i have never understood why Wizards dont get it also :D
#14 phaedrusxy May 20, 2009 11:23:06	good point, i have never understood why Wizards dont get it also :D Actually, I think sorcerers should get it, but not wizards. It fits their flavor a lot better. Wizards are all about doing things the "right" way. Sorcerers just kind of wing it. :P Sorcerers could also use a bit of a power-up compared to wizards IMO. I think this was one of the house rules I used to use (been a long time since I DMed).
#15 muertog May 20, 2009 11:25:20	Just wondering, is the OP evil as well, or going to -fight- evil characters? Who is the opponent?
#16 jameswilliamogle May 20, 2009 12:33:54	Karsite Binder 6 / Ardent 1 / Anima Mage 10 / KoSS 5 / Major Devil Bloodline 3. EBL 30 (6 vestiges), ML 21 (Practiced Manifestor). 9th level powers and epic level vestiges. SR 35 and decent dispelling powers. Theme? Schizophrenia. EDIT: Needed to adjust a bit.
#17 phaedrusxy May 20, 2009 12:42:10	Wow... that sounds wild... As written Anima Mage wouldn't progress Ardent, right? (It is an easy adaptation, though). Let me make sure I understand this: The bloodline increases your Manifester Level, which due to how Ardent works, also increases your ability to manifest higher level powers, right? I'd never thought of doing that before. That's crazy! And it works, RAI and RAW, I think. You could do some really interesting stuff with that...
#18 jameswilliamogle May 20, 2009 12:51:55	I tried statting one out before, all the way to 20th level, but it became too confusing around mid-level. The psionic adaptation is actually in the adaptation section of the Anima Mage. The theme works well with powers like fission and fusion (and the power level works well with fission and fusion, lol). So that gives - Devil Blood influencing you 6 different other worldly voices Fission and/or Fusion to double those numbers
#19 ninjarabbit May 20, 2009 14:41:32	elf focused transmuter6/masterspecialist4/swiftblade10/archmage5 human factotum8/duskblade3/ur-priest10/hierophant4
#20 dr_rocktopus May 20, 2009 15:17:39	So, back up. You're telling me that the build I put an hour and a half into isn't good enough for no stated reason? Sit down. Talk to Papa Jake. Tell him things and stuff so that he can actually help you. Okay: Books allowed. Full list. Full. Early Entry for flavor allowed? List of banned feats? Desired direction of character? Strictly prohibited directions? Reasons and interests? How high do you want your BAB? Are you okay with characters that make you go learn things? Answer these or we can't really help you. We want to. But we can't.
#21 phoenix00 May 20, 2009 18:35:34	Karsite Binder 6 / Ardent 1 / Anima Mage 10 / KoSS 5 / Major Devil Bloodline 3. EBL 30 (6 vestiges), ML 21 (Practiced Manifestor). 9th level powers and epic level vestiges. SR 35 and decent dispelling powers. Theme? Schizophrenia. EDIT: Needed to adjust a bit. First you need an additional ardent level in there. You can't take 2nd level powers (or higher) with ardent 1. It is like TOB classes with stances, you must have Ardent 2 before you get 2nd level powers. And why binder 6? Why not an epic progression of Anima Mage?
#22 dandu May 20, 2009 18:36:10	1-25 LvL Progression Something great against other evil players...I don't want to lose to them XD No Psionics - 3.5e Books only - Nothing with an infinite loop or to extreme - Got a pseudo strict GM... The other builds were okay.. but the GM just told me what the party was like so it changes things.. I don't like spreading builds to thin with like 8 classes.... ruins Roleplay...IMO No Race with more than an ECL 1 So, back up. You're telling me that the build I put an hour and a half into isn't good enough for no stated reason? There's your stated reason.
#23 dr_rocktopus May 20, 2009 19:19:35	Doc Seenta Much'Eh Neutral Evil, Human. Tagline: "The world is ending, and I'm gonna to see to the safety of those I love." Wizard 3/ War Weaver 5/ Urpriest 2/ Mystic Theurge or Dual-Progression of your choice to 10. 9ths on both sides, DMM : Persist + Tapestry == Pain. Re-ordering as Wizard 3/War Weaver 5/Urpriest1/MT 1/ Ur-Priest 1/MT 9 may make leveling more easy, and gives you DMM : Persist at 12th level, right as you can afford to actually use it and right as you'll have things to use it with.
#24 ninjarabbit May 20, 2009 19:43:42	factotum8/wizard2/abjurantchampion5/swiftblade10 Maybe not the most powerful character but it does redefine action economy
#25 jameswilliamogle May 21, 2009 7:13:26	First you need an additional ardent level in there. You can't take 2nd level powers (or higher) with ardent 1. It is like TOB classes with stances, you must have Ardent 2 before you get 2nd level powers. And why binder 6? Why not an epic progression of Anima Mage? No ANima Mage epic progression in the books, yet. Also, Practiced Manifester doesn't have a ML prereq, so you can take it at 1 and take Ardent 1 to get the higher level power (at least I remember it that way). If thats not right, trade 1 level of Binder for Ardent 2.
#26 phoenix00 May 21, 2009 8:09:57	No ANima Mage epic progression in the books, yet. Also, Practiced Manifester doesn't have a ML prereq, so you can take it at 1 and take Ardent 1 to get the higher level power (at least I remember it that way). If thats not right, trade 1 level of Binder for Ardent 2. No you are not remembering it right. At 1st level she must take 1st level powers as part of the ardent rules not the practiced manifester levels. At each additional level after 1 she can take any level of power as long as she is able to manifest those powers. Thus an builds that include ardent and practiced manifester use two levels of ardent at the minimum unless they can enter a prc that advances manifesting with only 1st level powers. ----- And while there is no official epic progression of Anima Mage, there is guidelines for an epic progression of 10th level classes. Page 6-8 gives those guidelines. According to the guidelines the epic progression of anima mage will look like this Starting at 11th level your vestigal metamagic increases another time per day. Thus you will have 4 times a day at level 11, 5 at level 13, 6 at level 15 and so on. At every level your manifester and soul binding abilities increase by 1. And an epic bonus feat every X levels, with X being what the DM decides (every 2, 3, 4, or 5). Because of the other strong class abilities the Epic Anima mage has lets peg the bonus feat every 5 levels. ----- There is your epic anima mage which will be stronger than just more binder levels. In addition it follows the official ELH guidelines on epic prcs.
#27 jameswilliamogle May 21, 2009 10:14:15	wut3vr. minor details.
#28 hijaxx May 21, 2009 15:13:11	Karsite Binder 6 / Ardent 1 / Anima Mage 10 / KoSS 5 / Major Devil Bloodline 3. EBL 30 (6 vestiges), ML 21 (Practiced Manifestor). 9th level powers and epic level vestiges. SR 35 and decent dispelling powers. Theme? Schizophrenia. EDIT: Needed to adjust a bit. i fail to see how this have an EBL of 30 as i see it you get 6 from binder 10 from anima mage 5 from KoSS thats 21 or am i missing something horribly obvious
#29 carnivore May 21, 2009 15:33:55	i fail to see how this have an EBL of 30 as i see it you get 6 from binder 10 from anima mage 5 from KoSS thats 21 or am i missing something horribly obvious Bloodlines Add effective Class levels of All classes and PrC that you have...thus: Karsite Binder 6 +3 Bloodlines= 9 Anima Mage 10 +3 Bloodlines= 13 KoSS 5 +3 Bloodlines= 8 total = 30 :D
#30 phoenix00 May 21, 2009 19:06:44	Warmage 1/Rainbow Servant 10/Innate of Sevenfold Veil 7/Archmage 2, followed by Epic Rainbow Servant (using improved sigil krau as well as precocious apprentice for early entry into Rainbow Servant) meets the OPs lack of criteria and will be a different style than what is posted before.
#31 phoenix00 May 21, 2009 19:08:33	wut3vr. minor details. wasn't being critical, i really like the build it sounds cool. I am currently mewing the build around and trying to create a character concept based off what you said. If I like it, I will post it on the char op boards.
#32 jameswilliamogle May 21, 2009 19:58:44	wasn't being critical, i really like the build it sounds cool. I am currently mewing the build around and trying to create a character concept based off what you said. If I like it, I will post it on the char op boards. I tried to tackle it one time, and it got very complicated around the time the second bloodline was added. My goal was to get full Binding and 9th level powers, and maintain at least 1/2 BAB. The timing of all the levels is freakin' critical. Good luck! Show Human Binder 1 / Major Devil Bloodline 1 / Ardent 1 Feats 1 Improved Binding, 1 Extend Power, 3 Practiced Manifestor, 3b Weapon Focus: Two-Handed Sword Class Abilities Soul Binding (1 vestige, 2nd level vestiges) Psionic mantles (Natural World, Conflict) Wild Empathy (d20 + ML + Cha) Power Points 2 Fort 2 Ref 0 Will 4 Powers Known Prescience, Offensive Psionic Lion's Charge Current Vestiges Naberius *********************************************************** Future Plans 4 Bloodline (EBL 5, ML 5) 5 Anima Mage (EBL 6, ML 6: Metamorphosis!) 6 Bloodline (EBL 8: 2 vestiges, ML 7) FEAT 7 Anima Mage (EBL 9, ML 8: Metamorphosis!) 8 Anima Mage (EBL 10, ML 9: 5th level power) 9 KoSS (EBL 14: 3 vestiges, ML 9) FEAT 10 Scion of Dantalion (EBL 18, ML 9) 11 Anima Mage (EBL 19, ML 10: 5th level power) 12 Anima Mage (EBL 20: 4 vestiges, ML 11: 6th level power) FEAT 13 Anima Mage (EBL 21, ML 13: 6th level power) 14 KoSS (EBL 22, ML 14) 15 KoSS (EBL 23, ML 15) FEAT 16 KoSS (EBL 24, ML 16) 17 KoSS (EBL 25: 5 vestiges, ML 17) 18 Anima Mage (EBL 26, ML 18: 9th level power) FEAT 19 Anima Mage (EBL 27, ML 19: 9th level power) 20 Anima Mage (EBL 28, ML 20: 9th level power) Final BAB: +9 (blech! going for a skillful enchantment weapon) 2 more mantles - Magic, The Planes
#33 hijaxx May 22, 2009 14:14:36	Bloodlines Add effective Class levels of All classes and PrC that you have...thus: Karsite Binder 6 +3 Bloodlines= 9 Anima Mage 10 +3 Bloodlines= 13 KoSS 5 +3 Bloodlines= 8 total = 30 :D OH EHM JESUS CHRIST. It... it only specifies spellcasting to be excluded. I... i feel faint...psionics... *thump*
#34 dr_rocktopus May 22, 2009 14:16:51	It's a shame the OP is never coming back.
#35 laudengi May 23, 2009 2:16:41	Okay No Psionics Period No more than 5 class/PrC total ... Ya I know I went up... Seemed some were a little upset about me making it only 4 :S Takes from the game in my opinion Something that is fighter first ... caster second.... but decent nonetheless Books allowed: Completes, Core(including PHB2), Tomes(battle,magic...etc) Feats allowed: Any from WotC books No Homebrew Something adabtable to most situations and effective... I like the chrono legionaire but no one allows psionics around here. Sorry It took me so long to respond btw XD
#36 hijaxx May 23, 2009 4:42:48	adaptable... adaptable..... James' Schizophrenia build seems good for this binder = choose the right abilities for each situation.
#37 jameswilliamogle May 23, 2009 12:38:58	No Psionics... Here's a slightly weaker (weaker? no, just different) version. Binder 2 / Cleric 1 / Anima Mage (divine adaptation) 10 / KoSS 1 / Scion of Dantalion 1 / Tenebrous Apostate 2 / Bloodline 3 6th level divine spells. 3 + ? peristant via divine metamagic. EBL 25. BAB sucks (use peristant divine power and Practiced Spellcaster for full BAB). One option is to use Archivist instead of Cleric, if Divine Metamagic gets nerfed. Or, Ur-Priest works, too. Then, here are your peristant spells: Divine Power Bite of the Werebear Righteous Might. +24 Str (or so). +6 Con. Full BAB. Here are your feats. 1,b,f,f Improved Binding, Extend Spell, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush 3 Precocious Apprentice 6 Persistant Spell 9 Shocktrooper* 12 Weapon Focus 15 Leap Attack 18 Practiced Spellcaster Here are your vestiges. Dantalion Chupoclops Tenebrous Otiax* Dahlver-Nar *If you use Otiax, you don't really need shocktrooper, and can save yourself 2 feats.
#38 dr_rocktopus May 23, 2009 14:14:21	Alexa Thomburst "Tell Them, Still Angry" Aasimar, Neutral Evil Alexa spent most of her early life in the war-torn reaches of Acheron, unable to escape, compelled by her very blood to continue fighting. Her mother was killed at a tremendously early age, and the battalion that her father belong to was wiped out moments thereafter. Alexa hid in the iron rubble of the torn cube, waiting, silent, afraid, in fact fundamentally terrified. This would be her home, as she scavenged and struggled for the next twenty eight years, holding her little patch of ground like you or I might cling to the last life boat. Unable to escape Acheron, unwilling to trust any travelers, Alexa suffered immensely, often starving for a week or more between meals. She came, with some rapidity, to hate her blood and the font in the heavens where it sprang from and to worship the conflict she was confined by. Her ultimate escape to Faerun was almost completely accidental, in fact, and almost reluctant. Your background here? This is a woman who literally doesn't understand the idea of bounty or surplus, and remains confused by it. She's not going to hurt you unless you try to take what's hers, be it a sword, a friend, or an apple. Bard 4-> Sanctum Spell -> Eldritch Knight 4 -> Ur Priest 2/Sublime Chord 1/ Foc Lyrist 9 3+4+1+9 = 17 BAB 3rd level Bardic Casting, Double Nines, 17 BAB, Leave Me ALONE. 5 Classes, one of them taken almost to completion. Bind Impulse boots using Open Least Chakra Torture a druid for druidic language. Skills may be hard to hit now. Tired. Do that yourself.
#39 hijaxx May 23, 2009 14:23:47	Make that an evil druid. Incorporate that into your background. make it a cool quest you embarked on where you had to learn druidic so you could infiltrate a sect of evil druids and stop them from summoning, er..... The Cookie Monster!
#40 dr_rocktopus May 23, 2009 14:42:35	Easier to just torture a random druid and be evil. I guess you could be a good guy, but whatever floats your boat. My personal preference tends towards good aligned characters, so I would rather have some sort of intricate backstory.
#41 hijaxx May 23, 2009 15:23:03	of, vourse, if we were actually going to DO it we would just be evil. but since we can conveniently write finding an evil druid and havin a good reason for toturing him to learn druidic, why bother with being evil. most campaigns work a lot better without evilness, or so is my experience.
#42 gorfnad_the_shiznit May 23, 2009 16:24:44	Servant of Hellfire Warlock 6/ Mindbender 1/ Ur-Priest 2/ Eldritch Disciple 10/ Hellfire Warlock 3/ Major Devil (or Demon?) Bloodline 3 Anyone know what level some of the abilities here (hellfire blast, ur-priest CL, invocation access) would be after the bloodline because I'm still a little fuzzy on how it would work? Also would it be better to drop two levels of Eldritch Disciple for two more level of bloodline?
#43 dr_rocktopus May 24, 2009 0:49:40	finished and reduxed my build, added backstory, pushed BAB up to 18. May not work for you. Some assembly required. No warranty implied or offered. Back down to 17...