| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1PlzBreakMyCampaignNov 01, 2008 18:11:30 | I would like to share one of my more random optimizing excersizes, naming maximizing favored enemies coverage. Normally a Ranger20 has only 5 favored enemies. But we can do better, even if this is only theoretical. Warning: This contains large amounts of cheesy variants, cross-campaign material and dragon magazines. Neutral Good Female Goliath Class or Prestige Class ---------- Favored Enemy Gained [or prereq] Ranger 1[2] ------------------- Arcanists (monstrous humanoid if ~Stalker of Kharesh)[+level w/ Bloodlines -> +1 FE & +2 bonus] Hunter Monk 1 ------------------ Constructs Druidic Avenger 1 --------------- Elementals Shadow Scout 1 ---------------- Animals Non-Spellcasting Ranger 1 ------ Fey Planar Ranger 1 ---------------- Magical beasts Urban ranger 1 ----------------- Oozes mystic ranger 1 ---------------- Plants cleric 1 ------------------------ [turning for deadgrim] Deadgrim 2 -------------------- Undead Swanmay 2 -------------------- Vermin Goliath Liberator 1 -------------- Giants Impure Prince 2 ---------------- Abberations Stalker of Kharesh 2 ------------ Evil creatures of ANY type or if that last one was too cheesy for you: Ability Variant Paladin of freedom - Monstrous Humanoids Abolisher 1 --------------------- Abberations Extra Favored Enemy Feat ------ Dragons The Extra Favored Enemy feat can fill in dragons, though I thought that there was a prestige class somewhere that had a specific favored enemy of dragons, but I can't find it now that I try... To my knowledge all the prerequisites for each class can be met in both the above build options. Let me know if you see any loopholes. That's right, this has every creature covered except humanoids and outsiders, both of which have many, many subtypes as favored enemies. Anything evil and anything that casts arcane spells can be just a bonus. ![]() Aside from Swift Hunter or Improved Favored Enemy, I know of little practical use for so many favored enemies. Still, I thought I'd share. |
| #2aelryinthNov 02, 2008 20:13:45 | Foe Hunter weapon....it's Bane against every creature you have FE against. You forgot the Harper FR variant rules, which allow you to take an organization as a FE, but changes the bonus type to morale. There was a Dragon magazine with a bunch of feats that operated against favored enemies, adding dmg, Dr, AC, saves, and a bunch of other effects. ===Aelryinth |
| #3muertogNov 02, 2008 21:35:20 | Where is Foe Hunter published? |
| #4PlzBreakMyCampaignNov 03, 2008 0:41:56 | I don't know about the weapon enhancement but Foe Hunter [regional] Feat is in Players Guide to Faerûn (3.5) p38. For a half-elf this would allow dragon as a favored enemy without taking a class. Obviously you can't be 2 races at once, so this doesn't make it into the build. I would also like to add the Foe Specialist Flaw (Dragon 329,p.95): you suffer a –1 penalty on attack rolls, Bluff, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks made against creatures of any kind that isn’t one of your favored enemies. The hatred flaw also might allow for rages against favored enemies, but I can't tell for sure. Does anyone know where to get a full listing of the Dragon Magazines, buying them up individually would be too crazy and the compendium didn't mention the flaws... Some more listings for the Dragon Magazines sounds great though Aelryinth. |
| #5muertogNov 03, 2008 0:51:35 | Perhaps... but the Dragon Mag stuff tends to not get playtested very well... Not that the regular book stuff is without flaws, but can you imagine the game that allowed Troll-blooded as a feat? |
| #6surrealNov 03, 2008 1:43:26 | I have a list of ways to get favoured enemies in my "lists of stuff" thread. |
| #7phaedrusxyNov 03, 2008 12:19:11 | Take two levels of Chameleon, and use your floating bonus feat to pick up Extra Favored Enemy (whatever you need at the time). |
| #8PlzBreakMyCampaignNov 03, 2008 17:30:50 | Wow, PhaedrusXY very nice call. Since there are 2 levels open, and whatever FE you might want could be for next level's progression that would definately help lower level survivability, assuming there actually were some use for covering every creature type but humanoids and outsiders. Aww why is everyone hatin' on Troll-blooded. Its not as sweet as I thought it was considering everyone's attitude towards it. ![]() Surreal, I definitely did go through your dex (ALL of it actually ) but as you can see I dug up way more classes that give FE than you found. :invasion: |
| #9altpersonaNov 03, 2008 18:33:41 | alter self still grants racial feats right? so human racial feat for extra FE is valid? all you need is an item to get it or a 3 lvl dip.. or one of the other ways (has to be more, im just not going to find them..)... |
| #10PlzBreakMyCampaignNov 03, 2008 19:04:46 | Im not sure about the alter self but Extra Favored Enemy has already been listed and it doesn't stack with itself. No one knows of any dragon-hunting prestiges? Maybe I imagined it... |
| #11aelryinthNov 03, 2008 19:55:11 | It might be called Foe Hunter or Foe bane. It's a weapon enchantment from first online here at WoTC, and then stuck in the MIC. +2 value, all FE's are considered Baned against. Obviously made for rangers. Yeah, the feat FOe hunter gives you another FE at level 1, even if you aren't a ranger. ==Aelryinth |
| #12muertogNov 03, 2008 20:30:13 | The MIC has Fiercebane, which is just the "burst" quality that can be applied to any Bane weapon, but no Foe Bane or Foe Hunter... unless I am looking in the wrong MIC. Edit: There is Hunting, which "increases your bonus on weapon damage rolls by 4 against your favored enemies" (p36). |
| #13altpersonaNov 03, 2008 21:53:20 | yea, the feat had been mentioned... and alter self lets you take that feat as a human racial feat, you can switch it pretty freely.. covering all bases... its not all at once, but its all of them.. if i understand right, arcane 1 (w/ alter self via Precocious Apprentice) /ranger 5 has FE all for 10 minutes per use.. maybe two uses if your arcane is a transmuter who gets a second lvl 2 slot.. the bonus isnt huge.. but, how about factotum 20 for best FE, you get to pick a full array of enemies.. every day if you feel the need.. |
| #14PlzBreakMyCampaignNov 03, 2008 22:10:23 | altpersona, nice use of alter self, really. However it is 1 FE at a time. But I'm not sure how factotum20 would help get all FE at once, or maybe I missunderstood. |
| #15altpersonaNov 04, 2008 8:03:04 | um, ok.. i could have this wrong, im no the best on here by far... so feel free to correct me where im wrong.. factotum gets to take a base class's EX ability as a character of its level, or something like that.. FE is an EX. ranger being a base class with the EX ability of FE, a facto20 takes ranger FE and gets 4? FE's as a ranger 15 would? the bonus's should all be standard for the lvl 15 (1 @ 8 - 1 @ 2) so you use your facto ability to pick 4 FEs and apply your FE feats as normal.. its not the most simultaneously, but it covers the full range of them.. and the duration could be better.. |
| #16PlzBreakMyCampaignNov 04, 2008 9:40:48 | Cunning Brilliance only lasts for 1 minute. Also 19 levels for 3 short-duration FE does have a slight situational advantage, but still is no where near maximum coverage. |
| #17altpersonaNov 04, 2008 9:57:18 | ok, so how do we compare things... all day @ 5 Fe (ranger 20) 3 minutes @ any Fe (facto20) All day @ 15 Fe? (this is a guess about the record number of Fe one can have) 20 minutes @ upto 2 extra Fe w/ low bonus + all day @ 4 Fe (wiz1/ranger15) where does the value weight fall.. order of preference, duration / bonus / # of Fe? |
| #18PlzBreakMyCampaignNov 04, 2008 11:40:07 | Since maximum coverage is the goal I would think the value rankings would be breadth of type covered / # of FE / duration / bonus. Differently named and stacking abilities that does actually count as FE didn't make the build. |
| #19muertogNov 04, 2008 12:08:06 | The only problem with gaining so many FE using level dips is that you don't get the enhanced bonus progression that you get from additional ranger FE's |
| #20PlzBreakMyCampaignNov 04, 2008 12:26:58 | Before this thread, I posted a simple question on that, but it didn't get answered (I think because I was right). Basically FE bonus in the SRD is: At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2. The interval referred to is not just at every 5th ranger level, but whenever a new level gives a FE (The extra FE feat specifies that it doesn't trigger the bonus). Take a look at Swanmay 2 if you think this might be too much RAI. It is the only class that specifically mentions what to do if you already had a FE. The others usually say gains FE as ranger ;) |
| #21altpersonaNov 04, 2008 13:52:12 | i think your saying that gaining a FE progresses the FE bonus, im pretty sure it does not. @ 5, 10, 15, 20th lvls your gain a new FE and each existing FE bumps. not gain a FE and bump each existing. for example, if i read it correctly. a Ranger 1/Hunting Monk 1 has 2 favored enemies @+2. not 1@2 and 1@4 a Ranger4/Hunting Monk 1 would have 3 FE 1@4 2@2. a Ranger 10/Hunting Monk 10 would have 6 (11 if you used all your feats for eFE) 1@10? and 5 @2? now, if, and again i could be way off..., you mix in some blood lines.. 3.. r1/hm1/bl3 = ranger lvl 8, if im doing it right that would be 3 fe's. might just be 2 FE w/ an extra +2 bonus, with out a new FE. im not sure... any more bloodlines confuse me.. i might be screwing this next part up.. not sure it 100 legal / right.. ranger 1/hm1/bl3/r2/swanmay2/r1/eldeen ranger 2/r4/darkwater something 1/r1/harper paragon2 has a ranger lvl of 30 for FE or more its more dips than would make most DM's happy.. and im not sure its all legal.. im also not sure what you do with your ranger lvl over 20.. but, with out fancy adjustments.. r12 has 3 by its self.. hm =1, sw2 er2 hp2 and dw1 are all +1 FE, for 8 explicitly stated FE without eFE. (3 more with eFE i think). im sure i got something in there wrong.. |
| #22PlzBreakMyCampaignNov 04, 2008 19:58:31 | Your right that bloodline levels would progress the +2 bonuses, but they would not grant extra FE since those are on the abilities chart and are gained through leveling (it is not a character level-dependent thing). What is the "darkwater something?" And its eldeen ranger 4, not 2... and its harper paragon 4 for undead (2 gives evil outsiders and evil is already covered) BTW can anyone check the Dragon Magazine #340 about what abilities the Moon Warded Ranger gets at level 1 and 2. Don't point me to Crystal Keep because I have heard conflicting things. |
| #23altpersonaNov 04, 2008 21:06:27 | darkwater is short for something, im afb atm.. (hehehe) i got it from the keep... but its got a reference to follow up with.. anymore i have no solid footing with bloodlines... so anything is possible, as far as i know.. |
| #24PlzBreakMyCampaignNov 05, 2008 22:43:29 | Well, I usually throw in bloodlines to any (insane but) willing DM since you get more max skill ranks w/o multiclass penalties - I just didn't think it would help FE's for this build. Since "Class levels of 'bloodline' do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does" just consider the same build with a bloodline levels component. Why does this help FE? Because we can "include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels." Again, "the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected" including Ranger's extra FE and FE bonus at level 5. So just throw in another level of ranger and after 3 Bloodline levels we've got another FE! |