Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 The_Fred Apr 05, 2013 6:26:51	OK, so what happens if I'm a Wizard who takes a level of Bard, Virtuoso, Warrior Skald etc. to get Bardic Music, and thence Metamagic Song feat from Races of Stone, and then try to use it to apply Invisible Spell (from Cityscape)? Metamagic Song can be used with Wizard spells just fine, because it only specifies "arcane" and lets me apply metamagic spontaneously but sacrificing Bardic Music equal to the level adjustment (a la DMM). Invisible Spell has no level adjustment, so... can I apply it spontaneously to anything, for free? (I guess the same applies to DMM, actually)
#2 Caker Apr 05, 2013 10:29:43	This doesn't work, becuase it specifically states when you cast a spell spontaneously, you can offset the cost with music uses.  Invisible spell has +0 so there is literally no need for this. However, this does make me want to polymorph into a firre eladrin and take assume supernatural ability to have infinite music uses, and abuse the hell out of metamagic.
#3 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 05, 2013 11:17:45	This doesn't work, becuase it specifically states when you cast a spell spontaneously, you can offset the cost with music uses.  Invisible spell has +0 so there is literally no need for this. Correct - you need to spontaneously cast the spell to consider Metamagic Song, so you can't use it with wizard spells. Not that it matters, because you can slap on Invisible Spell to every single spell you prepare as a wizard with no drawback whatsoever (and indeed sometimes a benefit - metamagic cost reducers + Invisible Spell can often offset a much more expensive metamagic effect). Plus you don't cast them as a full-round action the way a bard would. However, this does make me want to polymorph into a firre eladrin and take assume supernatural ability to have infinite music uses, and abuse the hell out of metamagic. Good luck - metamagic song has the clause that Divine Metamagic really should have, in that it won't let you metamagic a spell to an effective level higher than you can cast.
#4 EruditeApe Apr 05, 2013 14:20:55	Except that that clause is so easily bypassed, it's not even funny. Actually, I lied. It's hilarious.
#5 The_Fred Apr 05, 2013 16:25:28	This doesn't work, becuase it specifically states when you cast a spell spontaneously, you can offset the cost with music uses. Ah, yuck yes, you're right. It would be quite awkward to make that work with a Wizard (it is possible to get the ability to convert spells into others spontaneously and probably not be able to apply metamagic on the fly, so maybe it could be useful there). Not that it matters, because you can slap on Invisible Spell to every single spell you prepare as a wizard with no drawback whatsoever (and indeed sometimes a benefit - metamagic cost reducers + Invisible Spell can often offset a much more expensive metamagic effect). Plus you don't cast them as a full-round action the way a bard would. I was thinking of Arcane Spellsurge specifically, but using it generally might have been nice too. However, this does make me want to polymorph into a firre eladrin and take assume supernatural ability to have infinite music uses, and abuse the hell out of metamagic. Actually, that could be kinda useful (though no more useful than Shapechange or ASA already are). Limited by level, maybe, but that's still infinite usage of a lot. I'm sure you could get creative with that.
#6 Caker Apr 05, 2013 20:46:50	Have a way to persist polymorph and have all day free metamagic. Granted this isn't all that impressive, but hell is it fun.