Metamind almost useful even without cheese? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Metamind almost useful even without cheese?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Senevri
Jan 31, 2010 13:12:52 This must be an old discovery

With one class only, namely ARDENT.
Complete Psionic introduced this class, with it's mantle system, where you can pick new powers from mantles as long as you can manifest the sufficient amount of PP.
It also introduced the feat "Practiced Manifester.
So, with Overchannel, at level 10 Ardent, you can manifest 13 pp powers, meaning you could pick a 7th-level power.

Metamind loses a total of 5 ML on odd levels.
So, at 11 you have ML 14, thanks to Practiced Manifester, but you don't learn any new powers. Level 12, your ML goes to 15, giving you a 8th level power. And so forth. You lose 5 powers known, as well as a single psionic mantle. You still get a total of 4 9th level powers known, and have a natural ML of 19.

Now, finding use to the PP from Metamind's capstone ability is always tricky. Admittedly, if you manifest a twinned 9th power every round, it's equal to 10x37 PP, presuming you need to hustle to regain psionic focus.

So, nothing terribly interesting, just something it took me this long to notice.
#2
phaedrusxy
Jan 31, 2010 21:31:34 I think Ardent 20 still has more power points, even including the 10 free rounds of manifesting.
#3
Senevri
Feb 01, 2010 2:58:46 Firefox ate my post, and Chrome ate my post, too. Om nom nom. So, terse.

Checked, and no. even worst case, Metamind build has about 40ish more PP, then consider Twin Power, Hustle Psionic Meditation, Linked Power and Schism. Able to spend 50-60 PP/round. Good blasty or Gishy-buffing. Takes 5-6 must have feats, but they're good feats anyway.
#4
phaedrusxy
Feb 01, 2010 9:48:12 You lose 148 base power points with the 5 lost progression levels, and assuming a 36 Wisdom, 7 more bonus power points. This is assuming the DM lets Practiced Manifester increase the bonus power points you get. Some won't, per the clause in Practiced Manifester about not increasing power points.

So yeah, I see where you're getting the 40 number, I guess. 10 rounds of free ML 20 powers is 200 points. Then if you add in things like Quicken, Schism, etc, to let you get out more powers per round, the Metamind pulls ahead a bit more.

I don't see how Twin is helping the Metamind any more than the single-classed Ardent, though. They're both still limited by their ML on how many power points they can spend per power.

So yeah, I guess the real cost here is 5 lost powers known, and the opportunity cost of not going into something besides Metamind.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Senevri Jan 31, 2010 13:12:52	This must be an old discovery With one class only, namely ARDENT. Complete Psionic introduced this class, with it's mantle system, where you can pick new powers from mantles as long as you can manifest the sufficient amount of PP. It also introduced the feat "Practiced Manifester. So, with Overchannel, at level 10 Ardent, you can manifest 13 pp powers, meaning you could pick a 7th-level power. Metamind loses a total of 5 ML on odd levels. So, at 11 you have ML 14, thanks to Practiced Manifester, but you don't learn any new powers. Level 12, your ML goes to 15, giving you a 8th level power. And so forth. You lose 5 powers known, as well as a single psionic mantle. You still get a total of 4 9th level powers known, and have a natural ML of 19. Now, finding use to the PP from Metamind's capstone ability is always tricky. Admittedly, if you manifest a twinned 9th power every round, it's equal to 10x37 PP, presuming you need to hustle to regain psionic focus. So, nothing terribly interesting, just something it took me this long to notice.
#2 phaedrusxy Jan 31, 2010 21:31:34	I think Ardent 20 still has more power points, even including the 10 free rounds of manifesting.
#3 Senevri Feb 01, 2010 2:58:46	Firefox ate my post, and Chrome ate my post, too. Om nom nom. So, terse. Checked, and no. even worst case, Metamind build has about 40ish more PP, then consider Twin Power, Hustle Psionic Meditation, Linked Power and Schism. Able to spend 50-60 PP/round. Good blasty or Gishy-buffing. Takes 5-6 must have feats, but they're good feats anyway.
#4 phaedrusxy Feb 01, 2010 9:48:12	You lose 148 base power points with the 5 lost progression levels, and assuming a 36 Wisdom, 7 more bonus power points. This is assuming the DM lets Practiced Manifester increase the bonus power points you get. Some won't, per the clause in Practiced Manifester about not increasing power points. So yeah, I see where you're getting the 40 number, I guess. 10 rounds of free ML 20 powers is 200 points. Then if you add in things like Quicken, Schism, etc, to let you get out more powers per round, the Metamind pulls ahead a bit more. I don't see how Twin is helping the Metamind any more than the single-classed Ardent, though. They're both still limited by their ML on how many power points they can spend per power. So yeah, I guess the real cost here is 5 lost powers known, and the opportunity cost of not going into something besides Metamind.