Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 nertren Apr 23, 2008 8:44:03	Just wanted some feedback. I know this is broken, hence "broken fighter," but just want to throw this out there, see if I stacked feats correctly. Some backstory: I am the DM for my troupe. I have a wealth of 3.0 and 3.5 material. I told my troupe that any feat that they see, they can take, and I think I made a mistake with some feats either overlapping when they shouldn't, or some other rules-based mistake. Feats: Monkey Grip (Complete Warrior, pg.103): Pre-Req's = Base Attack Bonus +1. Wield weapons one size larger than you as if they were sized for you (example is a Medium character wielding a Large sized Longsword in one hand) at -2 attack bonus. Monkey Grip (Sword and Fist, pg.7): Pre-Req's = Base Attack Bonus +3, Weapon Focus (Weapon to apply to), Str 13+. Wield THIS weapon one size larger than you could normally (example is Halfling using a Medium size Longsword in one hand). As a House Rule, I decided that this should be considered a separate feat from Monkey Grip above, as the pre-req's single out a single weapon that gains the benefit, not just all weapons, and thus would stack with regards to that singular weapon. Over-Sized Weapon [Epic] (Complete Warrior, pg.153): Pre-Req's = Str 25, Monkey Grip (Complete Warrior), Base Attack Bonus +21. Can wield a weapon as if it were one size smaller AND one CATEGORY lighter (ie. 2 Handed becomes 1 Handed, ect.). As the extension of Monkey Grip (in Complete Warrior) I figure that the one category lighter STACKS with the treat as one-size-smaller. So, technically, with all three feats, you've now got a character wielding a weapon three size categories larger than otherwise able. If said weapon was a Bastard Sword that you had exotic weapon proficiency for, now it's in one hand, dealing 4d8 damage (for a Medium creature), and you've got a shield in the other hand (or a second one with Two-Weapon Fighting feat). Now, say that weapon had the Balanced weapon ability on it (Arms and Equipment pg.96) which allows a smaller character to use it, and you've got a Medium character wielding a bastard sword in one hand sized for a colossal character(6d8), or (if the exotic prof was for Full Blade, also in Arms and Equipment Guide) a Full Blade in Two Hands sized for a Colossal Creature(8d8). Right?
#2 ander_spectacular Apr 23, 2008 8:52:09	You can only take Monkey Grip once. CA overrides Sword & Fist. As the DM you can do what you like, but stacking feats(the same feat) between different versions of the rules is a little silly. -AS-
#3 fwib Apr 23, 2008 8:52:38	Not in the least overpowered.
#4 rebel7284 Apr 23, 2008 9:02:04	Not in the least overpowered. +1 Even if this was legal, spending 4 feats (3+ exotic proficiency) one of which is epic so you can do this only at level 21 is not great. Check out leap attack and shock trooper if you want good fighters. Edit: also, when you get to epic, casters >>>>> any fighter. When you can cast 2-3 9th level spells per round and manipulate the universe into whatever shape you want, the game gets pretty boring pretty fast.
#5 banor Apr 23, 2008 9:14:12	And out of a sudden a Gish sorcerer comes by, Cast Greater Mighty Wallop on his weapon and just did what you just burn 3 feat (one of which is an Epic one) to do. This is hardly broken, even I would dare to say barely good...
#6 colm_l Apr 23, 2008 9:15:14	+1 Even if this was legal, spending 4 feats (3+ exotic proficiency) one of which is epic so you can do this only at level 21 is not great. Check out leap attack and shock trooper if you want good fighters. Edit: also, when you get to epic, casters >>>>> any fighter. When you can cast 2-3 9th level spells per round and manipulate the universe into whatever shape you want, the game gets pretty boring pretty fast. +1 Plus, Greater Magic Wallop gives the same thing for a single spell a day.
#7 ChristopherGroves Apr 23, 2008 10:29:53	Put me in the silly and not at all scary or broken camp
#8 rabidpirateman Apr 23, 2008 10:49:25	Can we get a big sign that flashes in front of the CO Board that says 'Monkey Grip is a trap'?
#9 colm_l Apr 23, 2008 10:53:56	Can we get a big sign that flashes in front of the CO Board that says 'Monkey Grip is a trap'? Well, traps are dangerous. It's more of a tarp -completely non-threatening.
#10 surreal Apr 23, 2008 12:07:12	But tarps are useful. This is more like a used nappy.
#11 snex Apr 23, 2008 12:12:36	Can we get a big sign that flashes in front of the CO Board that says 'Monkey Grip is a trap'? a picture of admiral akbar would suffice
#12 shigunaru Apr 23, 2008 12:15:52	Well, traps are dangerous. It's more of a tarp -completely non-threatening. a picture of admiral akbar would suffice What about this one: (Sorry, had to...)
#13 idontmuchcareforit Apr 23, 2008 14:23:50	yeah... that's banned, and not good.
#14 ninjarabbit Apr 23, 2008 15:49:27	The words broken and fighter should not be used in the same sentence unless we're literally talking about a fighter who has been broken into serveral pieces.
#15 sinfire_titan Apr 23, 2008 16:02:43	Major Bloodline (Titan) is so much more optimal than Monkey Grip. A Halfling wielding a Gargantuan Warhammer one handed with no penalties just tickles me to death and back.
#16 Dictum_Mortuum Apr 23, 2008 16:07:55	when i dm a campaign, i'll give my players free monkey grips xD muhahahahaha
#17 sinfire_titan Apr 23, 2008 16:11:35	when i dm a campaign, i'll give my players free monkey grips xD muhahahahaha
#18 mplindustries Apr 23, 2008 19:30:06	So I think most people have been ignoring the question asked in favor of mocking the idea of a "broken fighter." Personally, I hate the way magic works in D&D, and weaken it accordingly, so this would actually be way too powerful in one of my games. Anyway, in response to "does this work?" No, it doesn't. Read the errata for Complete Warrior. Wield Oversize Weapon explicitly does not stack with Monkey Grip.
#19 alastar Apr 23, 2008 19:50:22	Bleh, if he wants to allow it, why not, i mean, the guy invested a lot to weild a sword 6 times his size, let him!
#20 bluedsteel Apr 23, 2008 20:09:44	Heh... sounds like the time one of my players was running a barbarian and picked up an ogre greatsword. He was running around as a 8 foot tall barbarian w/ a 13 foot sword on his back, and he tried to quickdraw it in a 5 foot corridor. The fun thing was he had sold all of his other weapons at the shop I provided instead of selling the monstrosity, so that was all he had.:D
#21 skydragonknight Apr 23, 2008 20:16:42	Do you think that maybe you're compensating for something? Show Sorry. Somebody had to say it. And it is a joke btw. ;)
#22 bauglir Apr 23, 2008 20:24:39	@ above Something like this?
#23 bergtann Apr 24, 2008 2:35:02	So, technically, with all three feats, you've now got a character wielding a weapon three size categories larger than otherwise able. If said weapon was a Bastard Sword that you had exotic weapon proficiency for, now it's in one hand, dealing 4d8 damage (for a Medium creature), and you've got a shield in the other hand (or a second one with Two-Weapon Fighting feat). Now, say that weapon had the Balanced weapon ability on it (Arms and Equipment pg.96) which allows a smaller character to use it, and you've got a Medium character wielding a bastard sword in one hand sized for a colossal character(6d8), or (if the exotic prof was for Full Blade, also in Arms and Equipment Guide) a Full Blade in Two Hands sized for a Colossal Creature(8d8). Right? So...your definition of "broken" covers a fighter doing 8d8 damage at epic?
#24 Nox_Noctis Apr 24, 2008 3:05:00	Well, in all fairness, Cone of Cold at caster level 11 or so is clearly broken and they do roughly the same amount of damage.
#25 tshern Apr 24, 2008 5:38:28	Well, in all fairness, Cone of Cold at caster level 11 or so is clearly broken and they do roughly the same amount of damage. Well, you have to be a caster to do that...