Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 avonderre Mar 20, 2008 16:05:55	Allright, party consists of of the following, level ranges from 8 to 9. a crazy bard (manages to give us all +6 to hit, +6 to damage in exchange for her taking some nonlethal damage) she also carries around an enormous pile of healing wands of all types and flavors. a beguiler/wizard/ultimate magus (utility toolbox) a very capable ranger who puts out a fair bit of damage (fav. enemy orc) an oversized two weapon fighting (arrogant, the character, not the player!) half dragon who does the bulk of the parties damage. And a monk/kensai, who trips, a lot. (others, not himself, at least not now) All of them are wearing those magical belts of healing from the MIC Now I generally like being a dps melee type, and my dm is allowing me to take mineral warrior+dwarf for LA 0, same as the half dragon. (we need more xp to level, but by this time I would have payed it all off) I would start at level 7 within 500 xp of 8, but the problem is im stumped as to what to play. I thought of a frenzied, but they are banned, understandably so. From dwarf + mineral warrior I would have +6 con. I've heard people mention a deepwarden thingie which gives con to ac, where might I find this class? Anyways, any ideas for what to play? Im not begging for builds, just suggestions as to fitting classes, or perhaps an interesting melee feat combo, just anything that I can float about in my head and start to work with. Interesting to note, in this campaign we're fighting an evil orc army. Every third mob is an orc, often more. I thought an interesting combo might be favored enemy (orc) and favored power attack from complete warrior (1:3 against orcs). Available is nearly everything but exalted deeds and Frenzied B. So long as it is "official." Thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions, I'll stop by to answer questions and such in a little bit.
#2 littlefreak_dup Mar 20, 2008 16:09:22	Deepwarden is in races of stone some levels of barbarian for the boost to con would be nice but not frenzied makes me cry. being a dwarf and having low speed wont let you try to optimize your burrow speed. pherhaps you could get the feat Roll With It from SS?
#3 ChristopherGroves Mar 20, 2008 16:21:09	Deepwarden fo-sho. Bit of ranger for entry (2 maybe?) then some other class(es) Since it isn't a casting class, I'd recommend melee. Fighter for Dungeoncrasher? If not, maybe Warblade?
#4 littlefreak_dup Mar 20, 2008 16:28:15	The idea of using Ranger is to get the third level for free endurance (wich is a prereq for deepwarden)
#5 LazyNinja Mar 20, 2008 16:41:19	Monk 2/ Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Deepwarden 2/Fist of the Forest 3/Bear Warrior 5/ Warshaper 4/ x 1 See if Fist of the Forest will let you qualify for Warshaper and grab the first 3 levels as soon as you can. Grab Steadfast Determination eventually. Pounce Barb. Feats are a tight squeeze (see if you can get some flaws). Most fun I've had with a character in a long time.
#6 littlefreak_dup Mar 20, 2008 16:51:48	Monk 2/ Fighter 2/Barbarian 1 this gives BAB +4 so cant start Deepwarden on level 6 if you use this with another level of either, monk, fighter, barb or any class with good BAB you could use the undying way monk variant from unearthed arcana to get endurance. check the prereq people!
#7 mplindustries Mar 20, 2008 16:54:15	a crazy bard (manages to give us all +6 to hit, +6 to damage in exchange for her taking some nonlethal damage)......Available is nearly everything but exalted deeds and Frenzied B. So long as it is "official." So, I know this isn't super on the topic here, but isn't that ability your bard is using Words of Creation? From the Book of Exalted Deeds? Anyway, you have a burrow speed, so has anyone shown you the Mole Handbookyet?
#8 LazyNinja Mar 20, 2008 16:55:55	this gives BAB +4 so cant start Deepwarden on level 6 if you use this with another level of either, monk, fighter, barb or any class with good BAB you could use the undying way monk variant from unearthed arcana to get endurance. check the prereq people! Not necessarily in that order. Go FoF first and you'll be fine. Don't take everything so literally! There are plenty of progressions that give the same build. Edit: that looks harsher in print. Make this change: "...literally! :P ..."
#9 littlefreak_dup Mar 20, 2008 17:03:04	Anyway, you have a burrow speed, so has anyone shown you the Mole Handbookyet? I dont think a burrow speed of 10ft would be useful with spring attack I mean sure, you can look for all the entries of Fast Movement on Surreal's list of stuff or get an item of expeditious retreat or a ton of some other things but I kinda feel thats a lot of work, specially if you do get two levels of Deepwarden, whats the point of gettin your AC inta tha stratosphere if you are staying underground and (most importantly) beyond normal reach anyways? anyway just a thought.
#10 ChristopherGroves Mar 20, 2008 17:15:03	Thus the question marks on mine monk / fist o forest works . . . Remember ToB is good for a dip anytime later
#11 Wyvernhand Mar 20, 2008 17:36:19	You are a dwarf, right? So pump those dwarven racial weapons for what they are worth. Nobody ever looks at the poor beligured Urgosh, probably because on top of being a goofy mofo, its also an exotic weapon, which makes everyone a sad panda. BUT, you are dwarf, such as other dwarves are, and you have racial weapon familiarity with this poor forgotten weapon. Double weapons have a special appeal to them, if you know where to look. Where do you look? Exotic Weapon Master from Complete Warrior. This little prc has a couple of pieces of gold in it. The biggest nugget is Flurry of Strikes. Flurry of Strikes requires you to wield a spiked chain OR a double exotic weapon. It DOESN'T say, however, that you have to wield it AS a double weapon. Since all double weapons are 2handed, if you only strike with 1 end of it, you gain all the benefits of 2handed weapon fighting, specifically 1.5 str to damage and 2:1 power attack. But wait, you have to take Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec to get into EWM, and those are "subpar" feats....yup. But then you qualify for Melee Weapon Mastery (piercing or slashing, I'd pick slashing) which gives you a bit more ooph, AND that qualifies you for Slashing Fury, which is the Multishot of melee, and another "flurry" effect, which stacks on top of the flurry you get from EWM. So...for a -4 penalty on all attack in the round, you can gain 2 whole extra attacks at your highest BAB. Add in haste (boots of speed!) and you make 3 extra attacks at your highest BAB -3 plus all your iteratives. Thats nice for power attacking. So, now....a build.... 1 Fighter1 Weapon Focus, Improved Init 2 Fighter2 Power Attack 3 Fighter3 Endurance 4 Fighter4 Weapon Spec 5 Ranger1 Track (get your skills filled!) 6 Deepwarden1 Improved Bullrush 7 Deepwarden2 (Con to AC!!!!!) 8 EWM1 Flurry of Strikes 9 Occult Slayer Melee Weapon Mastery 10 Occult Slayer 11 Occult Slayer 12 Occult Slayer Shock Trooper 13 Occult Slayer 14 Something... 15 Something... Slashing Fury 16 Something... 17 Something... 18 Something... Leap Attack 19 Something... 20 Something... There you go. The something levels could be just about anything. Barb would be kind of nice, land you some rage and some more hp. Funny that with Deepwarden, your AC doesn't go down when you rage, since your AC drops by 2 but your Con increase by 4 (+2). Get some heavy armor like Adamantine Fullplate and an Animated Shield and you'll be a pretty tough nut to crack, never mind your ton of HP from what will probably be a pretty high Con. Full attack routine with haste at level 20 before str looks like- +20 +20 +20 +20 +15 +10 +5 due to haste and feats. Add in magic weapon, strength, and a couple moral buffs and you'll be peaking +40 on your primary 4 attacks, meaning you can PA all day, even when you are not Shocktroopering. You could probably squeeze in a level of Lion Totem Barb from Comp Champ before heading into all the prcs to get pounce, or you can wait, or take it anywhere in between. Its strong, its got damage, its got style (who the hell uses an URGOSH...WTF?) and it has good defenses. You've got the Con to pull it off, it should be easy and fun to play. Enchant your Urgosh sides seperately for situations. One side should be holy, the other maybe wounding. The whole thing make adamantium for resiliance. That gives you huge versitility against a whole host of DRs. Any thoughts?
#12 the_ninjaneer Mar 20, 2008 17:59:49	Deepwarden is an excellent class that works well off a characters con score - (which as a mineral warrior dwarf should be high). I would suggest grabbing Dwarf Paragon 3 (Another con boost [+2] plus bonuses vs. those goblins + orcs and better familarity with axes - full bab and good hps too.) Followed by 3 levels in ranger (Skills, favorite enemy - stack those abilities vs. orcs, and endurence feat - full Bab + decent hit dice), then Deepwarden.
#13 avonderre Mar 20, 2008 18:00:17	Thank you everyone for your advice and such. The urgosh is a fun idea, and solves an annoying problem I've had before, never having the right weapon for the right time. Ghost touch anyone? The flurry ability is interesting, im looking at the complete warrior right now to see if the class has anything else worth taking if I shall be dipping into anyways. I don't have races of stone, but I'll be heading down to our local game store in about...10 minutes <(^.^)> As it stands my character shall certainly have a robust ac and hp, since you can't have everything in one character I'll leave the huge chunks of damage to the half dragon, perhaps some levels of warblade and combat brute for options. Anyways, thank you again everyone. I shall be logging back in later tonight to take another peek.
#14 Wyvernhand Mar 20, 2008 22:01:03	You know what, if you go with my build, you WILL be doing tons of damage, especially once you learn the science of power attack. Leap Attack pretty much doubles your damage on a charge, which with a flurry pounce is a HUGE chunck of change. Occult Slayer protects your mind and the spell reflection thing is kind of cool. Flurry and fury are AMAZING since damage increases geometrically with number of attacks, especially ones made at top BAB. The minor penalty you take is minor compared to the extra damage a whole extra attack gives, especially with power attack. Seriously, you will probably be able to out damage everyone in your party. I'd put money if your bard is as good as you say he is, you could average 250+ damage at level 11 on a full leap attack. Maybe rearange a few of the feats I suggested to get Leap Attack earlier, and you might even consider not even taking Imp Bullrush/Shocktrooper, since you'll be getting awesome AB bonuses from the bard. For your weapon, the slashing end will be your main. I'd suggest on that side get +1 wounding collision (+5 equiv). This will get you +1 hit, +6 untyped damage, and the ability to inflict 1 CON damage per hit. With flurry and fury and haste, that's up to 7 attacks in a round, and 7 con damage is about 4 hp/hit die of the creature you hit. That's HUGE if you hit something with 20 HD for an extra 80 damage for free, plus it lowers its fort save so your party can go for the kill. On your spiked end, +1 Holy Transmuting (+5). This is your DR piercing side. You can flurry with it, but you can't use slashing fury, since its a piercing side. You can set it for a charge though, although thats usually a waste of an action past about level 6. Transmuting will allow your weapon to bypass any DR (except /- and /epic) after the first swing, so that'll net you an extra ~10 damage per hit on anything that isn't already DR/Adamanine, DR/Magic, or DR/Good. Holy also tacks on an extra 2d6 damage vs all evil things, which is pretty nice. Upgrade the slashing end first though, since it'll be your primary attack end. Then get a Greater Truedeath Crystal to attach to the weapon to deal with Incorps, and make sure you get a pair of Greater Magic Weapons cast from your party cleric or wizard to increase the enhancement bonus on both sides for even more damage and accuracy. GL man, this is a pretty awesome and strong character. You will truely be a tank among tanks, especially once you finish the Deepwarden and Occult Slayer levels.
#15 Wyvernhand Mar 21, 2008 15:18:49	Anyone have comments on the build I posted? Beuler...Beuler...Beuler?
#16 littlefreak_dup Mar 21, 2008 16:24:19	Anyone have comments on the build I posted? Beuler...Beuler...Beuler? Yes I liked it. thought on posting my +1 but decided not thought the OP would like it. Got kinda sorpresed when he/she didnt anyway, just a thought.
#17 avonderre Mar 21, 2008 16:53:08	It's a very nice build but not quite appropriate. I would not want to do quite so much as to make the rest of the party bored. As well, I like coming up with a build of my own, remember I asked only for suggestions, like your urgrosh idea! :D I appreciate very much the effort you went through though, if I was out to win d&d I would certainly use it ;) But really, thanks everyone for your 2cp, I finished off my character this morning and am drawing up a suitably lavish backstory, please enjoy good friday and have a great weekend!
#18 Wyvernhand Mar 21, 2008 17:05:26	If you want to bring it down a notch, replace ImpBullrush/Shocktrooper/LeapAttack with Dodge/Mobility/Elusive Target. That'll make you much more defensive and less offensive, which means you'll be less likely to "steal thunder" from other damage classes. Elusive Target means you'll pretty much be immune to getting PAed back. You'll still hold it down with 2handed power attack, but you won't be nearly as brutal. Also, take normal barbarian instead of lion totem variant to lose pounce. You can still charge and power attack nicely, but you won't decimate everything you look at. Its a pretty solid high AC medium damage build with most of the weaknesses of a BDF covered by Deepwarden and Occult Slayer. GL with your game though. Hope you have fun, because that is the first goal of D&D.