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Mister Cuisinart

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
TrainedChimp
Aug 17, 2012 17:37:20 I need some help with a level 6 3.5 character. I want a character that gets the most mele attacks per round as possible. I was thinking a Human fighter with the feats Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Reflexes, and three others.

The special rules from the DM are: 1 extra feat, no Psyonics, no Druids, no gestalt.

I do understand that I could go with Thri-kreen and change to multiattack, but I don't want to waste the racial levels.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.
#2
draco1119
Aug 17, 2012 17:40:13 First bit of advice: DON'T DO TWF unless you have a way of adding damage (Sneak Attack & Skirmish, for example). Your best option might be a ranger/scout with Swift Hunter.
#3
Andarious-Rosethorn
Aug 17, 2012 18:51:47 Swordsage makes about the best 2WF. Dex synergy FTW. You need Dex to Hit (get Finesse at 3) Dex to Damage (get Shadow Blade at 1), Dex for 2wf feats, Dex for AOO's (Combat Reflexes), Dex to AC, Dex to Ref, Dex to win... About the only REALLY strong 2wf builds IMO are Swordsage base, with the Desert Wind boosts to add fire damage as well.

Feel free to multiclass some Rogue or what have you for SA dice and use Cloak of Deception, Sapphire Nightmare Blade and Death From Above to get that damage when you want it.
#4
Maat_Mons
Aug 17, 2012 19:09:19
The karmic strike feat (Complete Warrior) gives you an attack of opportunity every time someone hits you in melee. It has dex 13, combat expertise, and dodge as prerquisites. Combat reflexes is necessary to make the best use of the feat. The deft opportunist feat (Complete Adventurer) gives you an extra +4 to hit on attacks of opportunity.

The mineral warrior template (Underdark) gives you DR 8/adamantine, as well as a few other things, for +1 LA. The thick-skinned feat (Savage Species) increases your DR by 2 each time you take it, to a maximum of twice the original value.
#5
Andarious-Rosethorn
Aug 17, 2012 19:19:07 Psychic Warrior for DR powers or Crusader for Delay damage also work really well for 2wf. You can Martial Study/Martial Stance your way into Shadow Blade as a Crusader and it works rather well but is somewhat feat intensive, not bringing Shadow Blade online until at least level 12 in most cases. Level 3 Martial Study (Cloak of Deception), Level 9 Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance), level 12 Shadow Blade.

Additionally, most of the best Karmic Strike builds don't do two weapon, but rather use a Two Handed Weapon, focusing on doing a LOT of damage per hit and being the kind of guy you do not want to trade blows with.
#6
draco1119
Aug 17, 2012 20:01:07 RadTao made a TWF Crusader several years ago called Tess the Molestress. It got eaten by the boards, BUT I FOUND IT!!!
Just search (or go to Page 2 of this section of the forums) for "Tess the Molestress".
#7
Andarious-Rosethorn
Aug 17, 2012 20:18:13 Yep, Tess is a badass.
#8
TrainedChimp
Aug 17, 2012 21:08:26
First bit of advice: DON'T DO TWF unless you have a way of adding damage (Sneak Attack & Skirmish, for example). Your best option might be a ranger/scout with Swift Hunter.

I was just thinking of doing TWF for the increased number of attacks. If there is another way to get alot of attacks per round, I would be more than happy to go with it.

So far, I am liking Maat's suggestions on feats.
#9
draco1119
Aug 17, 2012 21:27:17 Easiest effective way to do that is to combine the AoO Tank with the Ubercharger. Barbarian2/Fighter2/Crusader1/Fighter+2/Crusader+1/Fighter+12. Take Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Combat Reflexes, Ewp(Spiked Chain), and Shock Trooper ASAP, snag Combat Expertise, Imp Trip, Deft Opportunist, Robillar's Gambit, etc as you can. Use your Crusader levels to get Ehite Raven maneuvers and the Devoted Spirit stance Thicket of Blades.
#10
draco1119
Aug 17, 2012 21:28:58 If you insist on TWF, then add Swashbuckler to those Swordsage levels and take the Daring Outlaw feat. Tempest had a very good way of doing this; I forget where, though.
#11
draco1119
Aug 17, 2012 22:04:19 I can't believe I forgot the obvious: Revenant Blade (Player's Guide to Eberron): the PrC that made TWFing worthwhile.
#12
Omen_of_Peace
Aug 20, 2012 20:04:09 As pointed out above, extra attacks don't do much if they're all for 1d6 damage.

I haven't tested the following, but it should be decent (for a TWF build):

Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter +1/Swordsage 1/X 1
1 Craven (Champions of Ruin)
2F Weapon Finesse
3 Extra Rage
4F TWF
6 Shadow Blade (ToB)

For the Barbarian, you take the Pounce ACF (Complete Champion) and the Ferocity ACF (Cityscape Web Enhancement).
X can be Warblade for instance. Ideally you delay your second level of Swordsage until level 7 so you can take Assassin's Stance at that point.

Consider grabbing Endurance in exchange for a flaw and being a Wild Elf (+4 Dex), then you segue into Wildrunner (RotW) for a weird pseudo-rage that gives +6 Dex.

Note: this build is meant mostly for levels 1-11 as you might end up running into multiclass penalties if you go on.
#13
deoxhydroxinate
Aug 28, 2012 13:21:21
I can't believe I forgot the obvious: Revenant Blade (Player's Guide to Eberron): the PrC that made TWFing worthwhile.

If by "worthwhile" you mean, "OMGWTFBBQ" then certainly! Power Attacking with both ends of a double bladed weapon is just dreamy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 TrainedChimp Aug 17, 2012 17:37:20	I need some help with a level 6 3.5 character. I want a character that gets the most mele attacks per round as possible. I was thinking a Human fighter with the feats Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Combat Reflexes, and three others. The special rules from the DM are: 1 extra feat, no Psyonics, no Druids, no gestalt. I do understand that I could go with Thri-kreen and change to multiattack, but I don't want to waste the racial levels. Any help or advice would be appreciated.
#2 draco1119 Aug 17, 2012 17:40:13	First bit of advice: DON'T DO TWF unless you have a way of adding damage (Sneak Attack & Skirmish, for example). Your best option might be a ranger/scout with Swift Hunter.
#3 Andarious-Rosethorn Aug 17, 2012 18:51:47	Swordsage makes about the best 2WF. Dex synergy FTW. You need Dex to Hit (get Finesse at 3) Dex to Damage (get Shadow Blade at 1), Dex for 2wf feats, Dex for AOO's (Combat Reflexes), Dex to AC, Dex to Ref, Dex to win... About the only REALLY strong 2wf builds IMO are Swordsage base, with the Desert Wind boosts to add fire damage as well. Feel free to multiclass some Rogue or what have you for SA dice and use Cloak of Deception, Sapphire Nightmare Blade and Death From Above to get that damage when you want it.
#4 Maat_Mons Aug 17, 2012 19:09:19	The karmic strike feat (Complete Warrior) gives you an attack of opportunity every time someone hits you in melee. It has dex 13, combat expertise, and dodge as prerquisites. Combat reflexes is necessary to make the best use of the feat. The deft opportunist feat (Complete Adventurer) gives you an extra +4 to hit on attacks of opportunity. The mineral warrior template (Underdark) gives you DR 8/adamantine, as well as a few other things, for +1 LA. The thick-skinned feat (Savage Species) increases your DR by 2 each time you take it, to a maximum of twice the original value.
#5 Andarious-Rosethorn Aug 17, 2012 19:19:07	Psychic Warrior for DR powers or Crusader for Delay damage also work really well for 2wf. You can Martial Study/Martial Stance your way into Shadow Blade as a Crusader and it works rather well but is somewhat feat intensive, not bringing Shadow Blade online until at least level 12 in most cases. Level 3 Martial Study (Cloak of Deception), Level 9 Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance), level 12 Shadow Blade. Additionally, most of the best Karmic Strike builds don't do two weapon, but rather use a Two Handed Weapon, focusing on doing a LOT of damage per hit and being the kind of guy you do not want to trade blows with.
#6 draco1119 Aug 17, 2012 20:01:07	RadTao made a TWF Crusader several years ago called Tess the Molestress. It got eaten by the boards, BUT I FOUND IT!!! Just search (or go to Page 2 of this section of the forums) for "Tess the Molestress".
#7 Andarious-Rosethorn Aug 17, 2012 20:18:13	Yep, Tess is a badass.
#8 TrainedChimp Aug 17, 2012 21:08:26	First bit of advice: DON'T DO TWF unless you have a way of adding damage (Sneak Attack & Skirmish, for example). Your best option might be a ranger/scout with Swift Hunter. I was just thinking of doing TWF for the increased number of attacks. If there is another way to get alot of attacks per round, I would be more than happy to go with it. So far, I am liking Maat's suggestions on feats.
#9 draco1119 Aug 17, 2012 21:27:17	Easiest effective way to do that is to combine the AoO Tank with the Ubercharger. Barbarian2/Fighter2/Crusader1/Fighter+2/Crusader+1/Fighter+12. Take Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Combat Reflexes, Ewp(Spiked Chain), and Shock Trooper ASAP, snag Combat Expertise, Imp Trip, Deft Opportunist, Robillar's Gambit, etc as you can. Use your Crusader levels to get Ehite Raven maneuvers and the Devoted Spirit stance Thicket of Blades.
#10 draco1119 Aug 17, 2012 21:28:58	If you insist on TWF, then add Swashbuckler to those Swordsage levels and take the Daring Outlaw feat. Tempest had a very good way of doing this; I forget where, though.
#11 draco1119 Aug 17, 2012 22:04:19	I can't believe I forgot the obvious: Revenant Blade (Player's Guide to Eberron): the PrC that made TWFing worthwhile.
#12 Omen_of_Peace Aug 20, 2012 20:04:09	As pointed out above, extra attacks don't do much if they're all for 1d6 damage. I haven't tested the following, but it should be decent (for a TWF build): Rogue 1/Fighter 1/Barbarian 1/Fighter +1/Swordsage 1/X 1 1 Craven (Champions of Ruin) 2F Weapon Finesse 3 Extra Rage 4F TWF 6 Shadow Blade (ToB) For the Barbarian, you take the Pounce ACF (Complete Champion) and the Ferocity ACF (Cityscape Web Enhancement). X can be Warblade for instance. Ideally you delay your second level of Swordsage until level 7 so you can take Assassin's Stance at that point. Consider grabbing Endurance in exchange for a flaw and being a Wild Elf (+4 Dex), then you segue into Wildrunner (RotW) for a weird pseudo-rage that gives +6 Dex. Note: this build is meant mostly for levels 1-11 as you might end up running into multiclass penalties if you go on.
#13 deoxhydroxinate Aug 28, 2012 13:21:21	I can't believe I forgot the obvious: Revenant Blade (Player's Guide to Eberron): the PrC that made TWFing worthwhile. If by "worthwhile" you mean, "OMGWTFBBQ" then certainly! Power Attacking with both ends of a double bladed weapon is just dreamy.