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Monk 20 vs sacred fist

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
lokai
Mar 23, 2008 10:51:53 Hey, well doing session with my friends and one is doing a monk and he's all up in air over a build and feats and such to take. So been helping by checking over books for a decent monk PRC would benefit him melee wise, and i came accross sacred fist. I did numbers with a monk 7/cleric 3/ sacred fist 10 he'd do unarmed as a level 17 monk, and be able to cast level 6 spells Now question is, is this build going to beat out a pure monk for damage/survivability? or will pure monk still thrash it in long run of things.

Edit: didn't notice were 2 levels didn't gain divine caster spells so fixed it.
#2
swiftblu
Mar 23, 2008 12:39:08 Pure Monk is terrible beyond words. I would suggest as few levels of that class as possible to qualify for the Prc.

Text trumps table, so Sacred Fist is a full casting Prc.
#3
salla
Mar 23, 2008 14:19:38
Pure Monk is terrible beyond words. I would suggest as few levels of that class as possible to qualify for the Prc.

Text trumps table, so Sacred Fist is a full casting Prc.

Seconded, plus you want as many cleric spellcasting levels as you can muster. Monk 2/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist 10/Cleric 4 gets you 9th level spells (due to text trumps table (T3)), which is FAR more important, impressive, and useful than any amount of monk unarmed damage.
#4
phoenix00
Mar 23, 2008 14:27:42 Monk's Belt and Superior Unarmed Strike will boost your monk's levels for damage by 9, thus giving you full monk damage.
#5
lokai
Mar 23, 2008 19:54:28 here is build i came up with... but i figure people can help tweak it a bit, also i choose monk levels over cleric, but just me sure most will advocate for more cleirc. in addition he doesn't have to take improved natural attack since, our DM awards things based on backstory and was one of features he gave him among other things. Also since not discusssed text vs table with DM gonna assume worst and he sides with table for now.

1. Monk 1 ( Power Attack, Combat Reflexes)
2. Monk 2
3. Cleric 1 1 (Combat Casting)
5. Monk 3
6. Monk 4(Practiced caster)
7. Cleric 2
8. Sacred Fist 1
9. Sacred Fist 2 (Superior Unarmed Strike)
10. Sacred Fist 3
11. Sacred Fist 4
12. Sacred Fist 5 (Iron Fist )
13. Sacred Fist 6
14. Sacred Fist 7
15. Sacred Fist 8
16. Sacred Fist 9
17. Sacred Fist 10
18.Cleric 3(Round About Kick)
19. Monk 5
20. Monk 6

so suggestions/comments i'm kinda lost on feats never really done a monk before so is my first atempt.
#6
aftercrescent
Mar 23, 2008 20:06:09 I assume you mean that if there was a rule somewhere saying text trumps table, your DM would follow it. I now point you to http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata

Look at the errata for the PHB. It's the first two sentences in the errata. Text Trumps Table.
#7
jameswilliamogle
Mar 23, 2008 20:11:49
here is build i came up with... but i figure people can help tweak it a bit, also i choose monk levels over cleric, but just me sure most will advocate for more cleirc. in addition he doesn't have to take improved natural attack since, our DM awards things based on backstory and was one of features he gave him among other things. Also since not discusssed text vs table with DM gonna assume worst and he sides with table for now.

1. Monk 1 ( Power Attack, Combat Reflexes)
2. Monk 2
3. Cleric 1 1 (Combat Casting)
5. Monk 3
6. Monk 4(Practiced caster)
7. Cleric 2
8. Sacred Fist 1
9. Sacred Fist 2 (Superior Unarmed Strike)
10. Sacred Fist 3
11. Sacred Fist 4
12. Sacred Fist 5 (Iron Fist )
13. Sacred Fist 6
14. Sacred Fist 7
15. Sacred Fist 8
16. Sacred Fist 9
17. Sacred Fist 10
18.Cleric 3(Round About Kick)
19. Monk 5
20. Monk 6

so suggestions/comments i'm kinda lost on feats never really done a monk before so is my first atempt.

You have the problem of going back and forth between Monk and Cleric, which is a problem.
#8
swiftblu
Mar 23, 2008 21:15:20 If you want to optimize this, cut down to 2 Monk levels, take Cleric, the Prc, and more Cleric (Practiced Spellcaster optional). Then, buy two Nightsticks or have a good Charisma score, take the feats Extend Spell, Persist Spell, and Divine Metamagic: Persist, and Persistify Divine Power on yourself.

You're golden.
#9
risner
Mar 24, 2008 9:43:45
If you want to optimize this, cut down to 2 Monk levels, take Cleric, the Prc, and more Cleric

That requires he take a race with Monk or Cleric (or Human) as a preferred class so as to avoid XP penalty.
#10
nebo
Mar 24, 2008 9:45:29 Less monk, moar cleric!
#11
panserbjorn_x
Mar 24, 2008 11:58:19
here is build i came up with... but i figure people can help tweak it a bit, also i choose monk levels over cleric, but just me sure most will advocate for more cleirc. in addition he doesn't have to take improved natural attack since, our DM awards things based on backstory and was one of features he gave him among other things. Also since not discusssed text vs table with DM gonna assume worst and he sides with table for now.

1. Monk 1 ( Power Attack, Combat Reflexes)
2. Monk 2
3. Cleric 1 1 (Combat Casting)
5. Monk 3
6. Monk 4(Practiced caster)
7. Cleric 2
8. Sacred Fist 1
9. Sacred Fist 2 (Superior Unarmed Strike)
10. Sacred Fist 3
11. Sacred Fist 4
12. Sacred Fist 5 (Iron Fist )
13. Sacred Fist 6
14. Sacred Fist 7
15. Sacred Fist 8
16. Sacred Fist 9
17. Sacred Fist 10
18.Cleric 3(Round About Kick)
19. Monk 5
20. Monk 6

so suggestions/comments i'm kinda lost on feats never really done a monk before so is my first atempt.

You would need Monastic Training to be able to freely multiclass. But you don't need more than two levels of monk anyways. As mentioned before Monk's Belt + Superior Unarmed Strike = +9 levels of monk damage.

As for feats, Iron Fist needs Stunning Fist to work. Roundabout Kick works off critical hits, and relying on a 20 (compared to other weapons which can get higher crit ranges), well there's better feats out there.

~P_X~
#12
carnivore
Mar 24, 2008 15:06:59 you could try this:

Any Race

Monk 2/ Cleric 4/ Sacred Fist 10/ Fist of Raziel 4

BAB +18
17th Caster level
9th lvl spells

feats required:

Combat Reflexes(monk bonus)
Improved Unarmed Strike(monk bonus)
Stunning Fist(monk bonus)
1st lvl: Open feat
3rd lvl: Servant of the Heavens
6th lvl: Combat Casting
9th lvl: Open feat
12th lvl: Power Attack
15th lvl: Robilars Gambit
18th lvl: Superior Unarmed Strike

there are several feats that give Cleric as an Extra Favored Class

:D
#13
shadowfrog
May 06, 2008 17:19:50 With the 2 open feats, Improved Natural Attack. That's really a must if your playing it as an unarmed monk.
#14
Wyvernhand
May 06, 2008 17:47:39 What about Monk2/Cleric4/SacredFist9/OrdainedChamp5?
Or Monk2/Cleric4/SacredFist10/OrdainedChamp4?

Sure, you lose a couple CLs, but you get to cast all your War Domain spells swift, which means Divine Power comes almost as a non-action, allowing you to go Divine Power + Righteous Might + move in one around, followed by Divine Favor + Full Attack.

Honestly, if you really want to hose him, get a +1 Greater Dispelling (MIC) Dimension Anchoring (MIC) Kama in one hand (buffed with GMW+5, put that on your unarmed attack too) and take the Improved Grapple feat, then hulk up, wack him once in a flurry to remove any minor buffs he may have from potions etc, and then as your second attack in a flurry, grab him, 3rd attack pin him, 4th + attack grapple to do damage, and then pass the turn. Assuming he takes Improved Grapple as well, you still have full BAB, size, and the free +6 str from Divine Power over him. Buy things like Gloves of Furious Grasp for another +8 grapple and Armbands of Might for another +2 str check (grapple). Hold him down, and squeeze him till his spine pops out his eyesockets. He won't be able to escape via Abundant Step or Empty Body because of the kama hit, and he'll have no choice but to tap out or become catsup.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lokai Mar 23, 2008 10:51:53	Hey, well doing session with my friends and one is doing a monk and he's all up in air over a build and feats and such to take. So been helping by checking over books for a decent monk PRC would benefit him melee wise, and i came accross sacred fist. I did numbers with a monk 7/cleric 3/ sacred fist 10 he'd do unarmed as a level 17 monk, and be able to cast level 6 spells Now question is, is this build going to beat out a pure monk for damage/survivability? or will pure monk still thrash it in long run of things. Edit: didn't notice were 2 levels didn't gain divine caster spells so fixed it.
#2 swiftblu Mar 23, 2008 12:39:08	Pure Monk is terrible beyond words. I would suggest as few levels of that class as possible to qualify for the Prc. Text trumps table, so Sacred Fist is a full casting Prc.
#3 salla Mar 23, 2008 14:19:38	Pure Monk is terrible beyond words. I would suggest as few levels of that class as possible to qualify for the Prc. Text trumps table, so Sacred Fist is a full casting Prc. Seconded, plus you want as many cleric spellcasting levels as you can muster. Monk 2/Cleric 4/Sacred Fist 10/Cleric 4 gets you 9th level spells (due to text trumps table (T3)), which is FAR more important, impressive, and useful than any amount of monk unarmed damage.
#4 phoenix00 Mar 23, 2008 14:27:42	Monk's Belt and Superior Unarmed Strike will boost your monk's levels for damage by 9, thus giving you full monk damage.
#5 lokai Mar 23, 2008 19:54:28	here is build i came up with... but i figure people can help tweak it a bit, also i choose monk levels over cleric, but just me sure most will advocate for more cleirc. in addition he doesn't have to take improved natural attack since, our DM awards things based on backstory and was one of features he gave him among other things. Also since not discusssed text vs table with DM gonna assume worst and he sides with table for now. 1. Monk 1 ( Power Attack, Combat Reflexes) 2. Monk 2 3. Cleric 1 1 (Combat Casting) 5. Monk 3 6. Monk 4(Practiced caster) 7. Cleric 2 8. Sacred Fist 1 9. Sacred Fist 2 (Superior Unarmed Strike) 10. Sacred Fist 3 11. Sacred Fist 4 12. Sacred Fist 5 (Iron Fist ) 13. Sacred Fist 6 14. Sacred Fist 7 15. Sacred Fist 8 16. Sacred Fist 9 17. Sacred Fist 10 18.Cleric 3(Round About Kick) 19. Monk 5 20. Monk 6 so suggestions/comments i'm kinda lost on feats never really done a monk before so is my first atempt.
#6 aftercrescent Mar 23, 2008 20:06:09	I assume you mean that if there was a rule somewhere saying text trumps table, your DM would follow it. I now point you to http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/errata Look at the errata for the PHB. It's the first two sentences in the errata. Text Trumps Table.
#7 jameswilliamogle Mar 23, 2008 20:11:49	here is build i came up with... but i figure people can help tweak it a bit, also i choose monk levels over cleric, but just me sure most will advocate for more cleirc. in addition he doesn't have to take improved natural attack since, our DM awards things based on backstory and was one of features he gave him among other things. Also since not discusssed text vs table with DM gonna assume worst and he sides with table for now. 1. Monk 1 ( Power Attack, Combat Reflexes) 2. Monk 2 3. Cleric 1 1 (Combat Casting) 5. Monk 3 6. Monk 4(Practiced caster) 7. Cleric 2 8. Sacred Fist 1 9. Sacred Fist 2 (Superior Unarmed Strike) 10. Sacred Fist 3 11. Sacred Fist 4 12. Sacred Fist 5 (Iron Fist ) 13. Sacred Fist 6 14. Sacred Fist 7 15. Sacred Fist 8 16. Sacred Fist 9 17. Sacred Fist 10 18.Cleric 3(Round About Kick) 19. Monk 5 20. Monk 6 so suggestions/comments i'm kinda lost on feats never really done a monk before so is my first atempt. You have the problem of going back and forth between Monk and Cleric, which is a problem.
#8 swiftblu Mar 23, 2008 21:15:20	If you want to optimize this, cut down to 2 Monk levels, take Cleric, the Prc, and more Cleric (Practiced Spellcaster optional). Then, buy two Nightsticks or have a good Charisma score, take the feats Extend Spell, Persist Spell, and Divine Metamagic: Persist, and Persistify Divine Power on yourself. You're golden.
#9 risner Mar 24, 2008 9:43:45	If you want to optimize this, cut down to 2 Monk levels, take Cleric, the Prc, and more Cleric That requires he take a race with Monk or Cleric (or Human) as a preferred class so as to avoid XP penalty.
#10 nebo Mar 24, 2008 9:45:29	Less monk, moar cleric!
#11 panserbjorn_x Mar 24, 2008 11:58:19	here is build i came up with... but i figure people can help tweak it a bit, also i choose monk levels over cleric, but just me sure most will advocate for more cleirc. in addition he doesn't have to take improved natural attack since, our DM awards things based on backstory and was one of features he gave him among other things. Also since not discusssed text vs table with DM gonna assume worst and he sides with table for now. 1. Monk 1 ( Power Attack, Combat Reflexes) 2. Monk 2 3. Cleric 1 1 (Combat Casting) 5. Monk 3 6. Monk 4(Practiced caster) 7. Cleric 2 8. Sacred Fist 1 9. Sacred Fist 2 (Superior Unarmed Strike) 10. Sacred Fist 3 11. Sacred Fist 4 12. Sacred Fist 5 (Iron Fist ) 13. Sacred Fist 6 14. Sacred Fist 7 15. Sacred Fist 8 16. Sacred Fist 9 17. Sacred Fist 10 18.Cleric 3(Round About Kick) 19. Monk 5 20. Monk 6 so suggestions/comments i'm kinda lost on feats never really done a monk before so is my first atempt. You would need Monastic Training to be able to freely multiclass. But you don't need more than two levels of monk anyways. As mentioned before Monk's Belt + Superior Unarmed Strike = +9 levels of monk damage. As for feats, Iron Fist needs Stunning Fist to work. Roundabout Kick works off critical hits, and relying on a 20 (compared to other weapons which can get higher crit ranges), well there's better feats out there. ~P_X~
#12 carnivore Mar 24, 2008 15:06:59	you could try this: Any Race Monk 2/ Cleric 4/ Sacred Fist 10/ Fist of Raziel 4 BAB +18 17th Caster level 9th lvl spells feats required: Combat Reflexes(monk bonus) Improved Unarmed Strike(monk bonus) Stunning Fist(monk bonus) 1st lvl: Open feat 3rd lvl: Servant of the Heavens 6th lvl: Combat Casting 9th lvl: Open feat 12th lvl: Power Attack 15th lvl: Robilars Gambit 18th lvl: Superior Unarmed Strike there are several feats that give Cleric as an Extra Favored Class :D
#13 shadowfrog May 06, 2008 17:19:50	With the 2 open feats, Improved Natural Attack. That's really a must if your playing it as an unarmed monk.
#14 Wyvernhand May 06, 2008 17:47:39	What about Monk2/Cleric4/SacredFist9/OrdainedChamp5? Or Monk2/Cleric4/SacredFist10/OrdainedChamp4? Sure, you lose a couple CLs, but you get to cast all your War Domain spells swift, which means Divine Power comes almost as a non-action, allowing you to go Divine Power + Righteous Might + move in one around, followed by Divine Favor + Full Attack. Honestly, if you really want to hose him, get a +1 Greater Dispelling (MIC) Dimension Anchoring (MIC) Kama in one hand (buffed with GMW+5, put that on your unarmed attack too) and take the Improved Grapple feat, then hulk up, wack him once in a flurry to remove any minor buffs he may have from potions etc, and then as your second attack in a flurry, grab him, 3rd attack pin him, 4th + attack grapple to do damage, and then pass the turn. Assuming he takes Improved Grapple as well, you still have full BAB, size, and the free +6 str from Divine Power over him. Buy things like Gloves of Furious Grasp for another +8 grapple and Armbands of Might for another +2 str check (grapple). Hold him down, and squeeze him till his spine pops out his eyesockets. He won't be able to escape via Abundant Step or Empty Body because of the kama hit, and he'll have no choice but to tap out or become catsup.