Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bloodofgods Mar 25, 2008 15:30:36	Hello to all. This is my first time posting on the character optimization boards. Anyways, I move from my original point. In the dungeons masters guide it says that a monks belt, if worn by a character who is not a monk, gives that character the armor class bonus of a fifth level monk... The actual armor class bonus from a fifth level monk is a class ability, and it is +1. Where do people keep getting the idea that the monks belt lets you add your wisdom to your armor class like a monk does? The item says that it only adds the ARMOR CLASS BONUS, which is clearly just +1 Can someone answer this question and tell me why people are often confused by this? Or could someone tell me a good enough reason to argue to my DM to allow the other to happen
#2 scarymike23 Mar 25, 2008 15:44:35	Its all in the wording.. but for absolute clarification, see the 3.5 faq: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20070621a Where it states: Q: Does a monk’s belt (Dungeon Master’s Guide, 248) grant a non-monk wearer his Wisdom bonus to AC? A: Yes. Note, however, that the wearer gains the AC bonus only when unarmored and unencumbered, since the belt clearly states that “this AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus.” Now to help you understand, from the SRD: From the Wondrous Items section under monks belt (bolding is mine): If the character is not a monk, she gains the AC and unarmed damage of a 5th-level monk. This AC bonus functions just like the monk’s AC bonus. Then, from the monk page, a definition of a monk's ac bonus: AC Bonus (Ex) When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. So the AC Bonus of a Monk clearing includes the wisdom to AC bonus. As a matter of fact, I would say that its the PRIMARY bonus of "AC Bonus (EX")
#3 bloodofgods Mar 25, 2008 15:50:37	Its all in the wording.. but for absolute clarification, see the 3.5 faq: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20070621a Where it states: Now to help you understand, from the SRD: From the Wondrous Items section under monks belt (bolding is mine): Then, from the monk page, a definition of a monk's ac bonus: So the AC Bonus of a Monk clearing includes the wisdom to AC bonus. As a matter of fact, I would say that its the PRIMARY bonus of "AC Bonus (EX") Thank you very much for this clarification, and I guess it's time for me to go make a broken Druid with this combination... Anyone say armor class in the 60's FTW?
#4 x-codes Mar 25, 2008 15:51:08	...and before you cry "IMBA!" and ban the item from your games, understand that even light armor is more effective at raising AC throughout the pre-epic career of any character (exceptions would be characters with an absurdly high Dex or Wis, like a Pixie or Winged Elf (Elf with the Winged template, not Avariel).
#5 ChristopherGroves Mar 25, 2008 15:52:56	Or things like Saints that double-up ...
#6 bloodofgods Mar 25, 2008 16:05:07	...and before you cry "IMBA!" and ban the item from your games, understand that even light armor is more effective at raising AC throughout the pre-epic career of any character (exceptions would be characters with an absurdly high Dex or Wis, like a Pixie or Winged Elf (Elf with the Winged template, not Avariel). It is not me that is banning the item mind you, I am the one who wants to use it! I love playing druids, and to me, shape change is the most broken spell in the entire game.. My dm bans shape change and polymorph, but allows the Druids wild shape ability... I am now trying to find ways to make that broken, and the monks belt seems to be one of the ways to do it =)
#7 tshern Mar 25, 2008 16:26:01	Well, Monk's belt and Owl's insight with a buffed caster level (24 is easy here) is a decent combination too.
#8 andyjames Mar 25, 2008 16:36:50	Remember that the new polymorph/WS rules states that you lose *all* equipment. The second you WS, you lose the belt, unless you also have a Wilding Clasp on it.
#9 carnivore Mar 25, 2008 16:38:25	It is not me that is banning the item mind you, I am the one who wants to use it! I love playing druids, and to me, shape change is the most broken spell in the entire game.. My dm bans shape change and polymorph, but allows the Druids wild shape ability... I am now trying to find ways to make that broken, and the monks belt seems to be one of the ways to do it =) why not try the Variant Druid ... here: Unearthed Arcana Druid variant Simple Variant The druid might choose to give up her wild shape ability in exchange for becoming a swift and deadly hunter. Gain Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC), fast movement (as monk), favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), Track feat (as ranger). Lose Armor and shield proficiency, wild shape (all versions). :D
#10 tshern Mar 25, 2008 16:41:02	Remember that the new polymorph/WS rules states that you lose *all* equipment. The second you WS, you lose the belt, unless you also have a Wilding Clasp on it. Or just wear the items after wildshaping? Simple Variant The druid might choose to give up her wild shape ability in exchange for becoming a swift and deadly hunter. Gain Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC), fast movement (as monk), favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), Track feat (as ranger). Lose Armor and shield proficiency, wild shape (all versions). Just an off-topic comment here: That must be the worst variant class ever in terms of power.
#11 carnivore Mar 25, 2008 16:44:36	not for the right Build.... ;) ... in fact i have just the thing to make it Kick Butt big time :D
#12 tshern Mar 25, 2008 16:46:14	Something that a normal Druid could not do ten times better? Just pick Track as a feat and wildshape makes sure you will do more damage than the Avenger with Favoured enemy. Moreover, wildshape is good against everything.
#13 naanomi Mar 25, 2008 17:37:11	It can be a good variant in a very few builds... warforged druids -> landforged walkers for example could care less about armor proficiencies AND are going to spend their time in plantshape not 5th level wildshape...
#14 dralnu Mar 25, 2008 20:21:29	...and before you cry "IMBA!" and ban the item from your games, understand that even light armor is more effective at raising AC throughout the pre-epic career of any character (exceptions would be characters with an absurdly high Dex or Wis, like a Pixie or Winged Elf (Elf with the Winged template, not Avariel). Don't forget the mage armor type spells as well that would stack on top of the monk belt. It is at that point that it becomes absurd.
#15 x-codes Mar 26, 2008 2:54:49	Don't forget the mage armor type spells as well that would stack on top of the monk belt. It is at that point that it becomes absurd. No, not really. At "low" levels (the Monk's Belt rarely comes into play before 10th level because of it's high cost), Monk's Belt + Mage Armor is about the same as regular armor + regular shield, since each are going to have a +2 enhancement bonus from a Chained Magic Vestment spell (the lesser metamagic rod is cheap at 14k for the party to buy, and it will give not only chained armor enhancements, but chained weapon enhancements as well with a good arcanist in the group). Furthermore, the Monk's Belt + Mage Armor combination all but stops scaling past that point (only Wisdom increases AC, or +0.5 at each 12, 16, and 20) while Magic Vestment scales at a much higher rate (+2 bonus to AC at each 12, 16, and 20). Also, don't give me crap about how you don't use a shield. Between bucklers and animated shields, you have no excuse, not even using the silly, little Monk's Belt.
#16 gattsu Mar 26, 2008 4:04:15	Seriously, while armor may indeed eventually beat out the monk's belt, you really should not ignore Owl's Insight for its touch AC goodness. 1 ac for every four casters level does add up, even if it is unlikely to fully surpass dragonhide fp or whatever
#17 x-codes Mar 26, 2008 5:11:07	Seriously, while armor may indeed eventually beat out the monk's belt, you really should not ignore Owl's Insight for its touch AC goodness. 1 ac for every four casters level does add up, even if it is unlikely to fully surpass dragonhide fp or whatever For touch AC, sure. Also, the Monk's Belt might be more effective for Druids because of the need for Wilding Clasps to get the benefits of items in Wild Shape. All that said, just because it's occasionally a little better than armor to one base class doesn't make an item not suck. To say the least, it's far from overpowered.
#18 cannibalsmith Mar 26, 2008 5:16:10	Here's a better question: Armor of the Beast + Wild Shape + Monk's Belt = stack?
#19 risner Mar 26, 2008 8:40:11	The actual armor class bonus from a fifth level monk is a class ability, and it is +1. False, the ability is +1+WIS bonus. Also you can't wilding clasp a monk's belt (not vest or neck.) You would be better off with +1 Wild Mountain Dragonscale Place (+12 ac) for 4*4*1,000 gp and it works while wildshaped.
#20 tshern Mar 26, 2008 8:56:29	Here's a better question: Armor of the Beast + Wild Shape + Monk's Belt = stack? Not sure what Armor of the Beast is, but if it would work on a Monk, then it works on a Druid. Otherwise, no.
#21 brainpiercing Mar 26, 2008 9:00:22	Duh. Take off Monk's Belt, Wildshape, put on Monk's belt. Where's the catch? It's tedious, so? Wildshape goes for hours and hours, it's certainly worthwhile. Do that with all items that auto-size. Do it a few times, and after a while your DM will just take for granted that you do it all the time. Or he might just do the sensible thing and accept that YES, animals CAN wear magic items, and ignore the silly paragraph from the Polymorph rules. I'm sure tons of DMs demand from their optimizing players not to take advantage of obviously silly gaps in the rules. In turn, it's quite fair to demand of those DMs not to use obviously silly rules, which were only made to poorly balance a broken mechanism.
#22 andyjames Mar 26, 2008 14:42:41	I find that sensible DMs are hard to come by. DMs that like to wield the nerfbat like it was going out of style, however, seems to be tragically common.
#23 pilgrimage Mar 26, 2008 14:52:12	The major drawback that makes me not want to use this belt is that it prevents me from using the Belt of Battle from Magic Item Compendium. An extra standard action for 2/3 charges or FULL ROUND ACTION for 3/3 charges/day is too much to pass up.
#24 archerpwr Mar 26, 2008 15:01:51	The major drawback that makes me not want to use this belt is that it prevents me from using the Belt of Battle from Magic Item Compendium. An extra standard action for 2/3 charges or FULL ROUND ACTION for 3/3 charges/day is too much to pass up. Belt of battle is to MIC as Celerity is to PH2. I always pack one (and only one), but refuse to use it unless it'll prevent a TPK. Sort of my "gentlemen's agreement" approach.