Monkadin viability? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ranma_saotomae Apr 26, 2009 15:40:53	Hi guys, I was thinking about combining monk and Paladin in a game I'm in now and was wondering on the viability of that build? The game will probably run to 14 or 15th level. I was thinking Monk 2 / Paladin 12/13 as a build. Not sure if I wanna hit any of the PrCs that are out there... maybe sacred fist but not sure. Any thoughts?
#2 sofawall Apr 26, 2009 15:44:04	First off, do you play D2? Second, Monk and Paladin don't work so unless you introduce one tasty little feat. Serenity. It's from Dragon Magazine and bases all you class features off of WIsdom instead of Charisma. Helps with the wisdom synergy.
#3 ranma_saotomae Apr 26, 2009 15:58:45	Actially no, I havent played D2 in a really really long freakin time ;) Hmm ok so it's good to know theres other feats needed besides ascetic knight to make this combo work well.
#4 sofawall Apr 26, 2009 16:00:31	Actially no, I havent played D2 in a really really long freakin time ;) Hmm ok so it's good to know theres other feats needed besides ascetic knight to make this combo work well. Ah, the -adin made me think of it. Hammerdin, Chargadin, Smitadin etc. Yeah, Serenity will make you happy. Wis mod to AC, saves and spellcasting.
#5 ninjarabbit Apr 26, 2009 16:03:44	If you go this route I'd suggest taking the overwhelming attack monk variant from US/SRD http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#overwhelmingAttack You get power attack and improved bullrush as you monk bonus feats which sets you up nicely for divine might and shock trooper.
#6 Balthanon Apr 26, 2009 16:30:39	You may also want to take a look at Argent Fist from Faiths of Eberron-- among other things, it gets the ability to wear full plate/shield and still keep your Wisdom bonus to AC and it causes paladin levels to progress unarmed strike damage. Flurry and fast movement won't be accessible in armor, but you won't have much of that anyway. Aescetic Knight from Complete Adventurer is another feat you will want to look at-- if you take it, you get a bonus feat when you start Argent Fist and if you don't take that class, then it will help you combine the two.
#7 ranma_saotomae Apr 26, 2009 16:40:46	Hmm interesting ideas. I'm not sure if the DM will allow eberron specific stuff in the game, would have to check with him. As for the ovewhelming way monk, I thought PA did not work on light weapons? Or is the free PA feat there just as a pre-req for the bull rush and overrun feats?
#8 ninjarabbit Apr 26, 2009 16:51:11	Hmm interesting ideas. I'm not sure if the DM will allow eberron specific stuff in the game, would have to check with him. As for the ovewhelming way monk, I thought PA did not work on light weapons? Or is the free PA feat there just as a pre-req for the bull rush and overrun feats? Power Attack [General] Prerequisite Str 13. Benefit On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn. Special If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.) A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats Unarmed strikes are power attackable for a 1:1 ratio
#9 ranma_saotomae Apr 26, 2009 16:58:05	Interesting ;) And here I alway thought PA didnt work with light weapons...
#10 dandu Apr 26, 2009 17:17:36	Monk2/Paladin4/Kensai10? Grab Serenity (feat described earlier) and see if there's a feat that allows monk and paladin levels to stack. Then you just enchant your body (or specific parts of it) and go to town. Not optimal, but sounds fun, doesn't it?
#11 terronus Apr 26, 2009 17:30:13	I did something sort of like this. I have the old build posted here which you can take or leave as you please (its not quite perfect as I never got around to really editing it...): Iron Monkey: the King Kong of Kung fu. I was going for an eastern flavor, which definitely doesn't have to be something you do, but it involves the monk/paladin concept
#12 Balthanon Apr 26, 2009 17:52:32	Hmm interesting ideas. I'm not sure if the DM will allow eberron specific stuff in the game, would have to check with him. It's a pretty generic prestige class-- the description has some flavor text from the Silver Flame I think, but none of the abilities or requirements are really something that screams "Eberron" flavor.
#13 ranma_saotomae Apr 26, 2009 19:14:09	Hmm I just checked out the feat index and couldn't find the Serenity feat? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/feats Any idea what Dragon it's in?
#14 sofawall Apr 26, 2009 19:27:29	Gimme one sec... EDIT: Dragon 306, pg. 100. I found it on google :D Found it in my Wis-based archer thread.
#15 ranma_saotomae Apr 26, 2009 19:35:34	Figures, google would be better resource for it than the wotc resources
#16 muertog Apr 26, 2009 19:52:18	See about obtaining a source for Mighty Wallop or later Greater Mighty Wallop. Makes that Unarmed Strike much better.
#17 sofawall Apr 26, 2009 22:11:30	Figures, google would be better resource for it than the wotc resources For all your feat searching needs! Also, WotC wouldn't find it as it's a Paizo feat, so no surprise. Oh, and it's WotC, so again, no surprise.
#18 terronus Apr 26, 2009 22:24:58	Hmm, well my link didn't get much response. I'll put a "monkadin" build here. This is level 20, even though I realize the OP is only going to 15ish: the whole shebang Books: Player's Handbook Complete Divine Unearthed Arcana Faiths of Eberron Spell Compendium Tome of Battle Races of Stone Human Monk 1/Cleric 4/Monk +1/PrC Paladin 2/Argent Fist 2/Sacred Fist 10 Feats: 1. Combat Casting (Human), Monastic Training (Cleric), Combat Reflexes (monk bonus: Invisible Eye variant) 2. Extend Spell (cleric bonus: Planning domain) 3. Mounted Combat 6. Superior Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (monk) 9. Persistent Spell 12. Divine Metamagic 15. Practiced Spellcaster 18. Imp. Natural Attack Domains: Planning and Strength Spells of note: Persisted: Divine Power Extended-all-day: Girallon's Blessing (OK, only 5 1/2 hours), Greater Magic Weapon +3, Magic Vestments +3 Combat: Enlarge Person at low levels. Righteous Might & Earth Hammer later on. So what do we have? Lots! Heavy armor with WIS and monk AC, +20F/+11R/+13W and CHA to saves, 6th level cleric spells and 16th CL, 17 BaB (+2 attacks, highest bonus, Girallon's Blessing), 4d8 base unarmed strike (6d8 Enlarge/Righteous, 8d8 Earth Hammer) He is a little MAD. Stat importance is WIS > CHA > STR=CON in my opinion, since I can largely make up for physical stats with buffing and healing. Some basic shtuff: that is copy and pasted from the old build. Sorry its a bit messy: Str 15 + 1 inherent +6 enhancement spell +8 size= +10 mod Dex 10 +6 enhancement =3 Con 14 +6 enhancement +4 size = +7 235.5 hp +17 divine power (252) Int 10 = +6 enhancement Wis: 16 + 5 levels +5 inherent +6 enhancement = 32 +11 mod Cha 16 + +6 enhancement= +6 mod 365k (I think the stats are off. It was originally 32 point vanaran) Armor: +5 mithral plate: 35.5k Shield: +5 Heavy Shield: 25k Nightstick: 7.5k Amulet of Natural Attacks; +5 speed collision: 162k +5 resistance 25k Class Features: +3 armor CF +4 sacred armor +4 sacred to saves +22fire/holy damage to strikes Armor= 10+13 (Plate + Dex)+5enhancement+4 nat+11 wis+3 CF+8 shield +4 deflection -1 size +4 sacred = 59 Damage: 8d8 + 10 str +10 weapons +22 CF = 78 averagish Fort: 42 (20 + 7 con +6 cha + 5 resist +4 sacred) Ref: 28 (11 +3 dex +6 cha +5 resist +4 sacred) Will: 34 (13 +11 wis +6 cha +5 resist +4 sacred)
#19 ranma_saotomae Apr 26, 2009 22:30:26	For all your feat searching needs! Also, WotC wouldn't find it as it's a Paizo feat, so no surprise. Oh, and it's WotC, so again, no surprise. Ahhh, I hadn't realized it was a Paizo feat! That should make things better since this is for one of the paizo games!
#20 muertog Apr 26, 2009 22:33:13	lol. Warn people if you are posting re: a paizo build. That allows for a lot more flexibility in the feats due to the advanced feat progression in that system.
#21 ranma_saotomae Apr 26, 2009 22:45:43	Ahhh sorry bout that =(

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

ranma_saotomae

Apr 26, 2009 15:40:53

Hi guys,

I was thinking about combining monk and Paladin in a game I'm in now and was wondering on the viability of that build? The game will probably run to 14 or 15th level. I was thinking Monk 2 / Paladin 12/13 as a build. Not sure if I wanna hit any of the PrCs that are out there... maybe sacred fist but not sure.

Any thoughts?

sofawall

Apr 26, 2009 15:44:04

First off, do you play D2?

Second, Monk and Paladin don't work so unless you introduce one tasty little feat. Serenity. It's from Dragon Magazine and bases all you class features off of WIsdom instead of Charisma. Helps with the wisdom synergy.

ranma_saotomae

Apr 26, 2009 15:58:45

Actially no, I havent played D2 in a really really long freakin time ;)

Hmm ok so it's good to know theres other feats needed besides ascetic knight to make this combo work well.

sofawall

Apr 26, 2009 16:00:31

Actially no, I havent played D2 in a really really long freakin time ;)

Hmm ok so it's good to know theres other feats needed besides ascetic knight to make this combo work well.

Ah, the -adin made me think of it. Hammerdin, Chargadin, Smitadin etc.

Yeah, Serenity will make you happy. Wis mod to AC, saves and spellcasting.

ninjarabbit

Apr 26, 2009 16:03:44

If you go this route I'd suggest taking the overwhelming attack monk variant from US/SRD http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#overwhelmingAttack

You get power attack and improved bullrush as you monk bonus feats which sets you up nicely for divine might and shock trooper.

Balthanon

Apr 26, 2009 16:30:39

You may also want to take a look at Argent Fist from Faiths of Eberron-- among other things, it gets the ability to wear full plate/shield and still keep your Wisdom bonus to AC and it causes paladin levels to progress unarmed strike damage. Flurry and fast movement won't be accessible in armor, but you won't have much of that anyway.

Aescetic Knight from Complete Adventurer is another feat you will want to look at-- if you take it, you get a bonus feat when you start Argent Fist and if you don't take that class, then it will help you combine the two.

ranma_saotomae

Apr 26, 2009 16:40:46

Hmm interesting ideas. I'm not sure if the DM will allow eberron specific stuff in the game, would have to check with him.

As for the ovewhelming way monk, I thought PA did not work on light weapons? Or is the free PA feat there just as a pre-req for the bull rush and overrun feats?

ninjarabbit

Apr 26, 2009 16:51:11

Hmm interesting ideas. I'm not sure if the DM will allow eberron specific stuff in the game, would have to check with him.

As for the ovewhelming way monk, I thought PA did not work on light weapons? Or is the free PA feat there just as a pre-req for the bull rush and overrun feats?

Power Attack [General]
Prerequisite
Str 13.

Benefit
On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn.

Special
If you attack with a two-handed weapon, or with a one-handed weapon wielded in two hands, instead add twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls. You can’t add the bonus from Power Attack to the damage dealt with a light weapon (except with unarmed strikes or natural weapon attacks), even though the penalty on attack rolls still applies. (Normally, you treat a double weapon as a one-handed weapon and a light weapon. If you choose to use a double weapon like a two-handed weapon, attacking with only one end of it in a round, you treat it as a two-handed weapon.)

A fighter may select Power Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats

Unarmed strikes are power attackable for a 1:1 ratio

ranma_saotomae

Apr 26, 2009 16:58:05

Interesting ;) And here I alway thought PA didnt work with light weapons...

#10

dandu

Apr 26, 2009 17:17:36

Monk2/Paladin4/Kensai10?

Grab Serenity (feat described earlier) and see if there's a feat that allows monk and paladin levels to stack.

Then you just enchant your body (or specific parts of it) and go to town.

Not optimal, but sounds fun, doesn't it?

#11

terronus

Apr 26, 2009 17:30:13

I did something sort of like this. I have the old build posted here which you can take or leave as you please (its not quite perfect as I never got around to really editing it...):

Iron Monkey: the King Kong of Kung fu.

I was going for an eastern flavor, which definitely doesn't have to be something you do, but it involves the monk/paladin concept

#12

Balthanon

Apr 26, 2009 17:52:32

Hmm interesting ideas. I'm not sure if the DM will allow eberron specific stuff in the game, would have to check with him.

It's a pretty generic prestige class-- the description has some flavor text from the Silver Flame I think, but none of the abilities or requirements are really something that screams "Eberron" flavor.

#13

ranma_saotomae

Apr 26, 2009 19:14:09

Hmm I just checked out the feat index and couldn't find the Serenity feat? http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/feats

Any idea what Dragon it's in?

#14

sofawall

Apr 26, 2009 19:27:29

Gimme one sec...

EDIT:

Dragon 306, pg. 100. I found it on google :D

Found it in my Wis-based archer thread.

#15

ranma_saotomae

Apr 26, 2009 19:35:34

Figures, google would be better resource for it than the wotc resources

#16

muertog

Apr 26, 2009 19:52:18

See about obtaining a source for Mighty Wallop or later Greater Mighty Wallop. Makes that Unarmed Strike much better.

#17

sofawall

Apr 26, 2009 22:11:30

Figures, google would be better resource for it than the wotc resources

For all your feat searching needs!

Also, WotC wouldn't find it as it's a Paizo feat, so no surprise.

Oh, and it's WotC, so again, no surprise.

#18

terronus

Apr 26, 2009 22:24:58

Hmm, well my link didn't get much response. I'll put a "monkadin" build here. This is level 20, even though I realize the OP is only going to 15ish:

the whole shebang

Books:
Player's Handbook
Complete Divine
Unearthed Arcana
Faiths of Eberron
Spell Compendium
Tome of Battle
Races of Stone

Human Monk 1/Cleric 4/Monk +1/PrC Paladin 2/Argent Fist 2/Sacred Fist 10

Feats:
1. Combat Casting (Human), Monastic Training (Cleric), Combat Reflexes (monk bonus: Invisible Eye variant)
2. Extend Spell (cleric bonus: Planning domain)
3. Mounted Combat
6. Superior Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist (monk)
9. Persistent Spell
12. Divine Metamagic
15. Practiced Spellcaster
18. Imp. Natural Attack

Domains: Planning and Strength
Spells of note:
Persisted: Divine Power
Extended-all-day: Girallon's Blessing (OK, only 5 1/2 hours), Greater Magic Weapon +3, Magic Vestments +3
Combat: Enlarge Person at low levels. Righteous Might & Earth Hammer later on.

So what do we have?
Lots! Heavy armor with WIS and monk AC, +20F/+11R/+13W and CHA to saves, 6th level cleric spells and 16th CL, 17 BaB (+2 attacks, highest bonus, Girallon's Blessing), 4d8 base unarmed strike (6d8 Enlarge/Righteous, 8d8 Earth Hammer)

He is a little MAD. Stat importance is WIS > CHA > STR=CON in my opinion, since I can largely make up for physical stats with buffing and healing.

Some basic shtuff:

that is copy and pasted from the old build. Sorry its a bit messy:

Str 15 + 1 inherent +6 enhancement spell +8 size= +10 mod
Dex 10 +6 enhancement =3
Con 14 +6 enhancement +4 size = +7 235.5 hp +17 divine power (252)
Int 10 = +6 enhancement
Wis: 16 + 5 levels +5 inherent +6 enhancement = 32 +11 mod
Cha 16 + +6 enhancement= +6 mod
365k

(I think the stats are off. It was originally 32 point vanaran)

Armor: +5 mithral plate: 35.5k
Shield: +5 Heavy Shield: 25k
Nightstick: 7.5k
Amulet of Natural Attacks;
+5 speed collision: 162k
+5 resistance 25k

Class Features:
+3 armor CF
+4 sacred armor
+4 sacred to saves
+22fire/holy damage to strikes

Armor= 10+13 (Plate + Dex)+5enhancement+4 nat+11 wis+3 CF+8 shield +4 deflection -1 size +4 sacred = 59

Damage: 8d8 + 10 str +10 weapons +22 CF = 78 averagish

Fort: 42 (20 + 7 con +6 cha + 5 resist +4 sacred)
Ref: 28 (11 +3 dex +6 cha +5 resist +4 sacred)
Will: 34 (13 +11 wis +6 cha +5 resist +4 sacred)

#19

ranma_saotomae

Apr 26, 2009 22:30:26

For all your feat searching needs!

Also, WotC wouldn't find it as it's a Paizo feat, so no surprise.

Oh, and it's WotC, so again, no surprise.

Ahhh, I hadn't realized it was a Paizo feat! That should make things better since this is for one of the paizo games!

#20

muertog

Apr 26, 2009 22:33:13

lol. Warn people if you are posting re: a paizo build. That allows for a lot more flexibility in the feats due to the advanced feat progression in that system.

#21

ranma_saotomae

Apr 26, 2009 22:45:43

Ahhh sorry bout that =(