Originally Posted by SRD
Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.
Q: The description of the flurry of blows ability says
there’s no such thing as a monk attacking with an off-hand
weapon during a flurry of blows. What does that mean,
exactly? Can the monk make off-hand attacks in addition to
flurry attacks?
A: Actually, the text to which you refer appears in the entry
for unarmed strikes. When a monk uses her unarmed strike
ability, she does not suffer any penalty for an off-hand attack,
even when she has her hands full and attacks with her knees
and elbows, using the flurry of blows ability to make extra
attacks, or both.
The rules don’t come right out and say that a monk can’t
use an unarmed strike for an off-hand strike (although the exact
wording of the unarmed strike ability suggests otherwise), and
no compelling reason why a monk could not do so exists.
When using an unarmed strike as an off-hand attack, the monk
suffers all the usual attack penalties from two-weapon fighting
(see Table 8–10 in the Player’s Handbook) and the monk adds
only half her Strength bonus (if any) to damage if the off-hand
unarmed strike hits.
To add an off-hand attack to a flurry of blows, stack
whatever two-weapon penalty the monk has with the penalty (if
any) from the flurry. Attacks from the flurry have the monk’s
full damage bonus from Strength, but the off-hand attack gains
only half Strength bonus to damage. If the off-hand attack is a
weapon, that weapon isn’t available for use in the flurry (if it
can be used in a flurry at all, see the previous question). For
example, a 4th-level monk with the Two-Weapon Fighting feat
and a Strength score of 14 decides to use a flurry of blows and
decides to throw in an off-hand attack as well. The monk has a
base attack bonus of +3 and a +2 Strength bonus. With a flurry,
the character can make two attacks, each at +3 (base +3, –2
flurry, +2 Strength). An unarmed strike is a light weapon, so
the monk suffers an additional –2 penalty for both the flurry
and the off-hand attack, and the monk makes three attacks,
each at an attack bonus of +1. The two attacks from the flurry
are primary attacks and add the monk’s full Strength bonus to
damage of +2. The single off-hand attack adds half the monk’s
Strength bonus to damage (+1).
If the monk in our example has two sais to use with the
flurry, plus the off-hand attack, she can use both in the flurry
(in which case she must make the off-hand attack with an
unarmed strike) or one sai for the off-hand attack and one with
the flurry. The sai used in the off-hand attack is not available
for the flurry and vice versa.
Q: Can a monk fight with two weapons? Can she combine
a two-weapon attack with a flurry of blows? What are her
penalties on attack rolls?
A: A monk can fight with two weapons just like any other
character, but she must accept the normal penalties on her
attack rolls to do so. She can use an unarmed strike as an offhand
weapon. She can even combine two-weapon fighting with
a flurry of blows to gain an extra attack with her off hand (but
remember that she can use only unarmed strikes or special
monk weapons as part of the flurry). The penalties for twoweapon
fighting stack with the penalties for flurry of blows.
For example, at 6th level, the monk Ember can normally
make one attack per round at a +4 bonus. When using flurry of
blows, she can make two attacks (using unarmed strikes or any
special monk weapons she holds), each at a +3 bonus. If she
wants to make an extra attack with her off hand, she has to
accept a –4 penalty on her primary hand attacks and a –8
penalty on her off-hand attacks (assuming she wields a light
weapon in her off hand).
If Ember has Two-Weapon Fighting, she has to accept only
a –2 penalty on all attacks to make an extra attack with her off
hand. Thus, when wielding a light weapon in her off hand
during a flurry of blows, she can make a total of three attacks,
each at a total bonus of +1. At least one of these attacks has to
be with her off-hand weapon.
A 20th-level monk with Greater Two-Weapon Fighting can
make eight attacks per round during a flurry of blows.
Assuming she wields a light weapon in her off hand, her three
off-hand weapon attacks are at +13/+8/+3, and she has five
attacks (at +13/+13/+13/+8/+3) with unarmed strikes or any
weapons she carries in her primary hand. If the same monk also
has Rapid Shot and throws at least one shuriken as part of her
flurry of blows (since Rapid Shot can be used only with ranged
attacks), she can throw one additional shuriken with her
primary hand, but all of her attacks (even melee attacks) suffer
a –2 penalty. Thus, her full attack array looks like this:
D&D FAQ v.3.5 20 Update Version: 12/21/07
+11/+11/+11/+11/+6/+1 primary hand (two must be with
shuriken) and +11/+6/+1 off hand.
hope it helps
:D
and moan about how "its not official", and when we do like it, we wave it around as if it were "Truth".usually many posters dont seem to enjoy Answers from "Customer Service", and tend to discount them as not official or questionable.
i havent heard many say that the FAQ is not official, some do complain, but that is moot, since the FAQ is indeed "Official"
:D
I love how when we don't like the FAQ ruling we
Any particular ruling?
Any particular ruling?
DMM: Persist+Footsteps of the Divine. Monk+Swordsage AC bonuses stacking. The list goes on for a while, but those are the two I can think of off the top of my head.
DMM: Persist+Footsteps of the Divine.
I haven't seen that. Can't find it with the wizards.com site search either.
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp_q=footsteps+of+the&sp_a=sp10025a73&sp_f=ISO-8859-1&sp_k=Dungeons+and+Dragons&sp-advanced=1&sp-p=phrase&sp-w-control=1&sp-date-range=-1&sp-start-month=0&sp-start-day=0&sp-start-year=&sp-end-month=0&sp-end-day=0&sp-end-year=&sp-x=any&sp-c=100&sp-m=1&sp-s=0
I haven't seen that. Can't find it with the wizards.com site search either.
http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp_q=footsteps+of+the&sp_a=sp10025a73&sp_f=ISO-8859-1&sp_k=Dungeons+and+Dragons&sp-advanced=1&sp-p=phrase&sp-w-control=1&sp-date-range=-1&sp-start-month=0&sp-start-day=0&sp-start-year=&sp-end-month=0&sp-end-day=0&sp-end-year=&sp-x=any&sp-c=100&sp-m=1&sp-s=0
A CustServ ruling was that you couldn't Persist Footsteps. It is what stops chuck from working, and a lot of people said it was bumpkus.
CustServ can contradict itself. Once things go into the FAQ/errata in my opinion it is gospel.
CustServ is different than the FAQ.
CustServ can contradict itself. Once things go into the FAQ/errata in my opinion it is gospel.
IIRC, CustServ/Sage rulings are what go into the FAQs. If so, then all of them are likely to have flaws. And big ones.
Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed. A monk may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.
BOLD = Relavent information
Underline = Point of my post
Basically, how this reads to me is: While a monk attacks with his unarmed strike (and ONLY unarmed strikes), there is no difference between primary hand and off hand (hence full strength damage). When you introduce a weapon into the mix, there exists an opportunity for an off hand attack since the monk is no longer only 'striking unarmed' (hence 1/2 strength on off hand).
The one issue I disagree with the faq on is allowing an unarmed strike to be used as an off hand attack as part of TWF. Pointing back to the SRD, a monk does NOT have an off hand attack while using unarmed strikes. Thus, any monk that chooses to use a weapon in TWF while using unarmed strikes must do so with the weapon being treated as the off hand. Flurry of blows with a monk weapon is the exception, as any additional attacks granted by flurry (ie, not granted by TWF) are treated as a primary weapon, full strength bonus.
Thoughts on that second part? Makes sense to me and does not contradict the SRD quote.
Examples:
Monk using one Kama and one sap, with TWF. Possible combos: (flurry, flurry + offhand)
Kama, unarmed + sap
unarmed, sap + kama
sap, unarmed + kama
unarmed, kama + sap
unrmed, unarmed +kama
unarmed, unarmed + sap
Not Possible (due to not having an offhand while striking unarmed): (flurry, flurry + offhand)
anything , anything + unarmed
EDIT: To sum everything up. TWF + Flurry/unarmed strikes = Perfectly legal, but requires a weapon other than unarmed strikes as the off hand attack
EDIT: To sum everything up. TWF + Flurry/unarmed strikes = Perfectly legal, but requires a weapon other than unarmed strikes as the off hand attack
Thats what I was thinking so I guess it all depends on DM because although the FAQ is "Offical" not everyone accepts it or even knows about it.*sigh* Oh well guess Ill avoid monks and do unarmed sword sage... Kind of contradictory though Unarmed SWORD Sage
Wis to AC, unarmed strike (its good, seriously), stunning fist/improved grapple, deflect arrows/combat reflexes AND evasion! Oh, did I mention +3 to all saves? Yeah, all good.
Unarmed strike can be optimized with Monk's belt + superior unarmed strike + improved natural attack. With that 2 level dip and 2 feats, you will be swinging unarmed strikes like a lvl 16 monk (2d8 damage). Get a few size increases and that damage gets larger.
If you have the Sword and Fist book, you can purchase a pair of Ward Cestus (exotic melee weapons) that use your unarmed strike as damage, are treated as an unarmed strike (enter, improved unarmed strike) and can be enchanted with weapon abilities (+1, flaming, etc)
Hmm, two level dip with 3 feats and (maybe 1 lvl barbarian if dm allows for pounce) and you have a character that can charge, bust out a flurry and lay total smack down.
Sample build maybe?
Assume Human
Monk 1: Stunning Fist, Versatile unarmed strike, Flying kick, unarmed strike, flurry
Monk 2: Combat Reflexes + evasion
barbarian 1: Pounce, rage 1/day, ??????? Extra stunning fist, maybe?
barbarian 2: Uncanny dodge
barbarian 3: Trap sense +1 (or variants, hint hint)
Fist of the Forest 1: Feral trance 1/day, improved unarmed damage I (monk damage goes up one step), improved natural attack
Fist of the Forest 2: Improved Uncanny Dodge
Fist of the Forest 3: Feral Trance 2/day, improved unarmed damage II (monk damage goes up 1 step)
???????? whatever you want lvls 9+: Superior Unarmed strike
At level 9, you have the unarmed damage of 3d8 (better than lvl 20 monk), deal extra unarmed damage on a charge and take full attack action at the end of a charge. Not to mention you get wis to ac from monk and CON to ac from fist of the forest
Still don't like monk? Who needs TWF?
A CustServ ruling was that you couldn't Persist Footsteps. It is what stops chuck from working, and a lot of people said it was bumpkus.
Their making interpetations that should be left up to the DM, since Footsteps as written fits all of the criteria for Persist(it meets all of the yeas and none of the nays). Footsteps is not a spell that has "until discharged" in it's duration. The spell is not "dischargible" although it has a "reducable duration"-the difference being that discharged spells end the spell entirely while Footsteps still functions for 1 more round. Though the wording does not suggest the spell is discharged, this is similar enough for many DMs that it's a reasonable houserule...but a houserule is a houserule is not a general rule, which is what the CO boards are about.
In short, just because something is "unbalanced" doesn't mean it's "against the rules". All it does is make it a candidate for Rule 0.
Their making interpetations that should be left up to the DM, since Footsteps as written fits all of the criteria for Persist(it meets all of the yeas and none of the nays). Footsteps is not a spell that has "until discharged" in it's duration. The spell is not "dischargible" although it has a "reducable duration"-the difference being that discharged spells end the spell entirely while Footsteps still functions for 1 more round. Though the wording does not suggest the spell is discharged, this is similar enough for many DMs that it's a reasonable houserule...but a houserule is a houserule is not a general rule, which is what the CO boards are about.
In short, just because something is "unbalanced" doesn't mean it's "against the rules". All it does is make it a candidate for Rule 0.
I know. Which is what is complete BS about their rulings. These things are best when left to the DMs. It is their job to clarify muddy wording. It is the DM's job to prevent the game from being broken in half.
IIRC, CustServ/Sage rulings are what go into the FAQs. If so, then all of them are likely to have flaws. And big ones.
Only a few actually make it into the FAQ / errata. Very few.
I love how when we don't like the FAQ ruling we
This is one that just makes sense and isn't particularly overpowered. It also explains what the text means as opposed to what it suggests.
Also, there was one that we would have liked, a lot actually, if it weren't for how utterly insane the idea was: polymorphing into templated forms. That was eventually pulled down, however, because it directly contradicted the RAW.
Generally speaking, anything that boosts the power of the combat-types and nerfs-without-making-unfun the caster-types is liked.
TWF + Natural weapon (ie, bite), assume Total Attack Bonus = 10 (BAB 5)
Longsword +8 (primary hand) , shortsword +8 (off hand) AND Bite +3 (secondary natural weapon)
That is how (and only how) natural weapons should* be used with TWF, otherwise you are simply wasting your time (and a free attack).
*=Not saying you CAN NOT, but that you SHOULD NOT.
So there is no such thing as an offhand attack...
No for a monk, there is no such thing as a monk striking with Flurry and getting 0.5 STR mod. In other words that line only means a monk gets 1x STR on all attacks made as party of a Flurry.
It doesn't prohibit or otherwise effect TWF which still does 0.5 STR on off hand attacks.
IIRC, CustServ/Sage rulings are what go into the FAQs. If so, then all of them are likely to have flaws. And big ones.
Custserv rulings don't go into FAQ.
Sage rulings do go into the FAQ.
Big difference.
Footsteps is not a spell that has "until discharged" in it's duration.
It may not have until discharged or (D) in the duration, but it has a discharging effect that last one more round.
If they published errata, the intent would likely close off persist on this spell by adding (D) to the duration.
If the DM wants to reject Chuck, they can do so using RaI or they can just rule that Persist is 24 hours and not specified in rounds (and as such "the remaining rounds" is zero.)