So I have a multiclassed Crusader/Warblade. In Chapter 3 of the ToB, it is only noted, that you have to track the readied and expended Maneuvers seperatly. So I can ready Maneuvers, i know through my Crusaders level as a Warblade Maneuver? And if not, where is this described?
An Example what i want to do:
The Char is Crusader 1/Warblade 1:
His maneuvers known are:
Crusader:
Crusader's Strike
Vanguard Strike
Stone Bones
Douse the Flames
Leading the Attack
Warblade:
Moment of Perfect Mind
Sapphire Nightmare Blade
Leading the Attack
The questions I know have:
1)Do I have the learn Leading the Attack again for Warblade? Or can i prepare it as Warblade, even though i learned it as Crusader?
2)Could i even ready Crusader's Strike as Warblade? or Moment of Perfect Mind as Crusader?
A2) You could, if you'd learned it through Martial Study and applied it to the appropriate list.
Your build is impossible since you've learned Leading the Attack twice. Once you know leading the attack, you can choose to ready it or leave it not readied; since you learned it as a crusader, it inherits its parameters from your crusader level (including counting against crusader readied maneuvers and your crusader IL, and it's recovered using your crusader recovery method).
The only area of overlap is when you try to learn other maneuvers from the same school in a different class. You pool together all the manevuers of that school, regardless of where you learned them, to meet prerequisites.
For instance, a Crusader 4 who knows Leading the Attack can take level 1 of warblade and learn White Raven Tactics (as his warblade IL is 1+(4/2 from non-warblade levels), and he knows one White Raven maneuver).
For instance, a Crusader 4 who knows Leading the Attack can take level 1 of warblade and learn White Raven Tactics (as his warblade IL is 1+(4/2 from non-warblade levels), and he knows one White Raven maneuver).
Actually, you can't, because WRT is a level 3 maneuver. But besides that, TS is right on all counts.
For instance, a Crusader 4 who knows Leading the Attack can take level 1 of warblade and learn White Raven Tactics (as his warblade IL is 1+(4/2 from non-warblade levels), and he knows one White Raven maneuver).
Actually, you can't, because WRT is a level 3 maneuver. But besides that, TS is right on all counts.
D'oh - that'll teach me to post from memory before I've had my coffee. Crusader 8, then.
Certain builds can exploit this property - up to and including using Martial Studies or extra maneuvers from different classes - to produce some pretty wild builds if you're willing to plan ahead. I left out the other twist to this: prestige classes, as written, improve all your initiator levels, even though the maneuvers you learn are assigned to a specific class' progression. In other words, a hypothetical Crusader 6 / Unarmed Swordsage 2 / Master of Nine 5 (a rudimentary attempt at an Idiot Crusader, shall we say) is level 13, but would have a crusader IL of (6+(2/2)+5) 12 and a swordsage IL of (2+(6/2)+5) 10. It's an unusual quirk of how the prestige classes advance IL.
....Does anyone have an archive copy of Ghola's The Art of creating a Multiclass Martial Adept handy? The internets appear to have eaten it, and I think his leap-frogging technique deserves a bit more time in the limelight.
Your build is impossible since you've learned Leading the Attack twice. Once you know leading the attack, you can choose to ready it or leave it not readied; since you learned it as a crusader, it inherits its parameters from your crusader level (including counting against crusader readied maneuvers and your crusader IL, and it's recovered using your crusader recovery method).
Do you remember where the possibility of learning the same maneuver more than once in separate classes is excluded? I recall looking for information on it previously and not finding anything that outright prevents it.
Master Of Nines got max'd at some point.
The TG thread old address:
boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=683268
... is probably in the wayback. They've got most
everything up through 2007.
It's more that you can't learn a maneuver more than once, and you don't think of them as being "prepared" so much as being indivdually ready or not ready. Feats work the same sort of way - once you know them, you can't learn them again.
Your build is impossible since you've learned Leading the Attack twice. Once you know leading the attack, you can choose to ready it or leave it not readied; since you learned it as a crusader, it inherits its parameters from your crusader level (including counting against crusader readied maneuvers and your crusader IL, and it's recovered using your crusader recovery method).
Do you know in which Chapter that is described? Because some player of mine are asking. We all dont find it in the book.
The only area of overlap is when you try to learn other maneuvers from the same school in a different class. You pool together all the manevuers of that school, regardless of where you learned them, to meet prerequisites.
Yeah, that I allready read, but thanks for pointing it out again :D
I don't even see it written explicitly anywhere that a PrC increase to IL adds to all initiator levels (it says add your level to your initiator level, singular, assuming you don't have two).
Likewise, I don't see it explicitly stated that you can't learn a manoeuvre twice. Now, on the one hand, if you could, you could spam a single manoeuvre a lot more than you're supposed to be able to (e.g. Martial Study + Warblade + Swordsage using Sapphire Nightmare Blade to trigger sneak attack or sudden strike; OK not likely to be great outside of gestalt but you get the idea; White Raven Tactics would be a worse one). On the other hand, I don't like that if you pick up an manoeuvre earlier you're stuck with a (potentially) sub-par recovery method (e.g. getting it via Martial Study then going into an initiator, or multiclassing Swordsage to Warblade or whatever).
Of course maybe this is just hidden in the book somewhere and I'm missing it.
Still, it seems weird.
I would draw an analogy with spells. You can't cast a Wizard spell as a Sorcerer, but you can learn it twice. Of course, spells =/= manoeuvres by any stretch.
RE the "leap-frogging", the fact that Warblade gets his second stance at L4 and the others at L2 is something to bear in mind. XXX 2/Warblade 4 or XXX 6/Other 2 can both get you a L3 stance, whereas XXX 8/Initiator 1 can get you L3 manoeuvres right off. It's when you combine them it gets interesting, like XXX 2/Warblade 4/Crusader 2 for two L3 stances (dunno why you'd need them, though).