Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 qoshea Apr 23, 2009 8:40:34	Good morning! I'm working on a character to replace a 10th level character that died a horrible death (involving beer, two dwarven hookers, and an orc assassin... don't ask). Had a whimsical idea of taking 5 base classes with 2 levels each. Current Idea Race: Catfolk (RotW) Class: Scout 2 / Warmage 2 / Hexblade 2 / Sorcerer 2 / Fighter 2 Ability Scores, with racial adjustments: Str 09 (-1) Dex 22 (+6) +1 4th level Con 13 (+1) Int 18 (+4) Wis 12 (+1) Cha 20 (+5) +1 8th level Classes: Scout 1 (Level 1) - skill points galore and skirmish Warmage 1 (Level 2) - Warmage Edge and Armored Mage (Light) Hexblade 1 (Level 3) - Hexblade Curse and Armored Mage (Light) Sorcerer 1 (Level 4) - some more spells Fighter 1 (Level 5) - Armored Mage alternative class feature from Complete Mage and a bonus feat Scout 2 (Level 6) - Battle Fortitude +1 and Uncanny Dodge Warmage 2 (Level 7) - nothing Hexblade 2 (Level 8) - Arcane Resistance Sorcerer 2 (Level 9) - Nothing Fighter 2 (Level 10) - bonus feat Feats: Level 1 - Point Blank Shot Level 3 - Ability Focus (Hexblade's Curse) Level 5 - Weapon Finesse (Fighter bonus feat) Level 6 - Practiced Spellcaster (Warmage) Level 9 - Practiced Spellcaster (Sorcerer) Books Allowed: Core except for psionics; Complete series; Races series; others to be approved on case by case basis.
#2 pithica Apr 23, 2009 9:06:21	What are you wanting to play? Primary Combatant (Tank)? Damage Dealer (Glass Cannon)? Or what? I think you'd be better off dropping Hexblade and Sorcerer for extra Warblade levels or levels in a ToB PrC for either role. Heck, you'd probably be better off going Scout 3(4)/Ranger X and taking Swift Hunter than what you've got right now.
#3 qoshea Apr 23, 2009 9:14:50	Basically a Glass Cannon. Warmage Edge + Skirmish + spells = not too bad damage The Hexblade's Curse to lower saves. Sorcerer for Expeditious Retreat giving the character a nice speed of 70' per round. Fighter for the bonus feats and hit points. ToB would have to be approved and I don't think he's ever approved anything from it. Always a first time though LOL.
#4 pithica Apr 23, 2009 9:27:57	Sorry, I have dyslexia and mixed Warmage with Hexblade and read it as Warblade. That's where the suggestion came from. Now I am sure you're doing the wrong thing. You should (almost) never take classes in two separate spellcasting classes, especially not to mix with non-casting classes. If you want to play a Gish/Glass Cannon you need to pick a single spellcasting class and take as many caster levels as you can in that class. Human Paragon 3/Martial Wizard 2/Fighter 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Incantatrix 4/Eldritch Knight 4 Is going to get you a LOT better results than what you have. If you're dead set on precision damage... Spellthief 1/Martial Wizard 1/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer 5/Incantatrix 4/Arcane Trickster 6 Is going to get you a lot more precision damage and a lot better spell options. If you really want Sorcerer... Sorcerer 6/Swiftblade 9/Abjurant Champion 5 Is a much better way to go. Especially if you go Dragonwrought Kobold with Loredrake and Greater Draconic Rite of Passage. A solid Warmage build could be... Warmage 6/Rainbow Servant 10/Abjurant Champion 4 If you'd prefer melee over spells (you really only want a few spells of low-level) Scout 4/Ranger 6 with swift hunter and the shooting star variant is the way to go. There are a lot of right ways to do what you're wanting to do, dipping into a bunch of disparate classes is going to hurt a LOT and isn't the way to do it.
#5 Balthanon Apr 23, 2009 9:30:36	2 levels per class I would probably go with a melee combatant actually-- Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Barbarian 2/Warblade 2/Crusader 2 (replacing Warblade and Crusader with OA Samurai and Psychic Warrior or Duskblade if they aren't allowed.) That may not beat out a straight martial adept, but I would put it up against a straight fighter, ranger, barbarian, samurai, or duskblade easily. (Psychic Warrior is another one that might end up more powerful due to higher level psionics available.) Spellcasters with only 1st level spells in general are not going to do much at 10th level, no matter how you dress up their spells.
#6 qoshea Apr 23, 2009 10:44:51	They already have two melee types, a straight wizard, a straight cleric, and a twitchy rogue. I'm basically just filling in the blanks and figured I'd see how this type of character would work. Has anyone actually played a character with this many classes? One guy in my gaming group suggested 10 different classes.
#7 pithica Apr 23, 2009 10:55:17	I have, twice. Once as a pure melee mix, and once doing something similar to you thinking that I only needed a couple levels of spellcasting to have some 'tricks' up my sleeve. The former worked out okay, at least in so far as any martial build without ToB does (you can do some cool things, but the wizard is still winning most of the fights for you). The latter was a gimp. You can survive playing this way, but you aren't really contributing to the group anything more than being an extra target for the mob you're fighting. Otherwise you're a waste of space.
#8 Kerrus Apr 23, 2009 10:55:35	So you have like no BAB and no useful spells. So uh... what do you expect do be able to do at 20th level? Just sort of hang around?
#9 qoshea Apr 23, 2009 10:56:54	So you have like no BAB and no useful spells. So uh... what do you expect do be able to do at 20th level? Just sort of hang around? Yeah, sort of like Norm from Cheers.
#10 qoshea Apr 23, 2009 10:58:53	I have, twice. Once as a pure melee mix, and once doing something similar to you thinking that I only needed a couple levels of spellcasting to have some 'tricks' up my sleeve. The former worked out okay, at least in so far as any martial build without ToB does (you can do some cool things, but the wizard is still winning most of the fights for you). The latter was a gimp. You can survive playing this way, but you aren't really contributing to the group anything more than being an extra target for the mob you're fighting. Otherwise you're a waste of space. Ah well. It was worth thinking about. Thanks for the advice everybody!
#11 pithica Apr 23, 2009 12:40:44	If you really want to fill in the blanks with the above group, a bard works really well. Optimized, you could easily be adding ~+8 to every to hit and weapon damage roll for every attack for every member of the above group by 10th level. If you went the dragonfire inspiration route, you could easily exchange that out for ~8d6 energy damage to every weapon damage roll. Either is solid.
#12 feloniousela Apr 23, 2009 13:34:19	Duskblade 2/Fighter 2/Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Whatever full melee 1/Suel Arcanamach 1/Abjurant Champion 5/Suel Arcanamach +3/Spellsword 1/Dragon Disciple 4 that goes for a grand total of 8 classes and is really very playable. It's a gish-lite that can be a very good "tank/damage dealer". To add more weirdness (and to get the most out of the build) go Illumian with Aeshkrau. The Cityscape web enhancement variants of Fighter and Barbarian also can get Tumble as a class skill, making entry easier. A ToB class could be fun as that wildcard level.
#13 Balthanon Apr 23, 2009 13:41:11	I've played melee characters with around that number of base classes-- if you want to go with a glass cannon that has a bunch of classes, I would suggest working to get into some prestige classes post haste. Try the following: Warlock 2/Binder 2/Anima Mage 2/Hexblade 1/Knight of the Sacred Seal 2/Nosomatic Chirugeon 1. After 10th level, take another level of Nosomatic Chirugeon and then move into Hellfire Warlock. You should end up with a decent Eldritch Blast, 4th level binding, and some other nice miscellaneous abilities. It depends on whether your DM is willing to allow 2nd level least invocations to fill the prerequisites of anima mage (which might be permissible with a wide reading of the adaptation section). Even allowing that, the character isn't going to be overpowered by any means though, so it isn't like he's going to break the game. If he won't allow that, then move Hexblade and Nosomatic Chirugeon around as follows: Warlock 2/Binder 2/Hexblade 1/Nosomatic Chirugeon 2/Anima Mage 2/Knight of the Sacred Seal 1. Pestilential touch should let you qualify for anima mage directly and you're trading 4th level binding for lesser invocations here. Later on, you can take Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion in order to advance hellfire warlock to pick up the last level of class abilities and advance one other class by 1. Just pick up other prestige classes that fully advance spellcasting (nosomatic chirugeon should let you qualify for a wide variety) and you should be good. Also, see if he's willing to allow these fixes to Hexblade that were provided by Mike Mearls on the boards awhile back: * Good Fortitude save * Curse ability usable 1 + the hexblade's Cha modifier per day * Curse ability usable as a swift action * Curse ability does not count as used if the target makes his saving throw * Ability to cast in light or medium armor and while carrying a light shield or buckler * At 6th level, the hexblade can cast one hexblade spell per day as a swift action, as long as its original casting time is a standard action or faster. He gains an additional use of this power at levels 8, 11, 14, and 18.
#14 jetstrike3000 Apr 23, 2009 13:43:23	Well If your gonna do something like that do... Monk 1/Fighter 2/Barbarian 1/Rogue 1/Sha'Ir 5 Fighter with sneak attack varuant barbarian with pounce...