Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bulwer Feb 28, 2009 4:46:50	I'm considering the possibilities of a throwing build that uses several of the awesome exotic thrown weapons that really really rock. Namely: The Orc Shotput, which does 2d6 damage. The Harpoon, which does the same amount of damage going out as going in. The jury is out on whether Returning works. Bolas, which allow a ranged trip attack. How can you make this work, with access to all Wizards stuff, including Dragon and so on? 32-point buy, and ideally at least a little playable at low to mid levels. I'd love to see some fun things.
#2 Balthanon Feb 28, 2009 10:00:36	With the harpoon at least you have two basic options, one is focusing on your strength for damage and the other is another source, like sneak attack. The first is likely to leave you in a good position for melee as well as throwing weapons (plus the ability to carry around multiple relatively heavy harpoons if your DM doesn't like the returning part). The second can give you some decent skills to help out the party, though you need a good way of getting ranged sneak attack (I like Warblade with Cloak of Deception from Martial Study.) If you go with Strength, I would suggest trying to pick up a LA race like half ogre with a good boost to Strength and Large size. You then have the option of jumping into War Hulk to really ramp up your damage. Going this route, I would suggest something like Half-Ogre Warblade 3/Fighter 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4, then going into some combination of Master Thrower/Hulking Hurler/War Hulk. If you go with sneak attack, something like Rogue 3/Warblade 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4 should be decent, picking up Martial Study and Martial Stance to grab Assassin's Stance to bump yourself up to 4d6 sneak attack. After that, you can either focus on classes that boost your sneak attack/skills, more martial adept levels for maneuvers, or pick up something like Master Thrower for thrown weapon tricks. With Warblade, you also need to decide if you want to mix up multiple weapon types in one combat/day or if you want to switch off-- with Weapon Aptitude you can change up your Exotic Weapon Proficiency, leaving you only requiring one feat. If you want to use all of them at once, you're almost definitely going to require a couple of levels of fighter for the proficiencies you'll need. (Unless you want to go with aptitude enchanted weapons, which would get expensive quickly.)
#3 playswithfire Feb 28, 2009 12:30:57	I might recommend using the Targetteer fighter variant (DR310p38; available on crystalkeep), particularly if you want to go the non-strength route. One level of Targetteer gets you proficiency with two exotic ranged weapons (as a consequence, the fighter level does not give you martial melee proficiencies) and either a feat or the Vital Aim ability which lets you use your DEX for damage with ranged weapons rather than STR. Targetteer EWP(Orc Shotput, Harpoon), Vital Aim, feat[Point Blank Shot], flaw[Precise Shot] Rogue Rogue feat[Craven] Rogue Warblade Bloodstorm feat[Weapon Focus(one of those two)] Master Thrower Quick Draw, trip shot Use weapon aptitude to switch around the weapon focus based on your mood (which one you want to trip with), make one an aptitude weapon or grab another weapon focus from somewhere. But, at level 7, you're doing 2d6+7 + DEX damage beyond weapon damage against anything vulnerable to critical hits. Probably take more bloodstorm (up to 4) and Master Thrower if you like, then go wherever you want. EDIT: no bolas, because you can trip with the other two thanks to Master Thrower and that's really all bolas are good for. If you really want to use them, though, used barbed bolas from Complete Warrior
#4 Balthanon Feb 28, 2009 12:38:12	You have the order mixed up on your levels there-- putting a fighter level first when you're taking rogue levels can't possibly have been intentional. ;) Other than that, I would agree with the targeteer level though, that is far superior to standard fighter for a build like this.
#5 playswithfire Feb 28, 2009 12:48:14	Yeah; I realized that right after posting. I just wrote the levels in the order they occurred to me. The only possible justification is if you're starting at level 1 and aren't willing to wait until level 2 to start using your preferred weapons. Under any other circumstances, one of the rogue levels definitely comes first.
#6 bulwer Feb 28, 2009 15:41:31	What if we went ahead and threw sanity out the window? Take these stats: 18/18/16/16/12/12. Take 2 Flaws. A Trait, too, why not? Mineral Warrior looks excellent for +1 LA. Applied to a Water Orc, that gives us +6 Str and Con, and -4 to all 3 mentals. I'm sure there are other options. 2 LA or less is a must, but I'd love to play something different. What progression do you go with to maximize damage and attack bonus? I'll be actually playing this starting at 5th level, so goodies should start paying off then. I picture this for a combat style: immediately harpooning the biggest thing, then holding it still while pelting it and everything else with Orc Shotputs. Thanks!
#7 Balthanon Feb 28, 2009 22:47:45	You're not going to be able to hold the creature still unless you're right next to it-- harpoons only allow you to prevent the creature from moving outside of the range of the rope (30 ft) with a Str check. You're going to significantly impede their movement, but you won't keep the creature still-- and that is only if you succeed on the opposed Str check. If you want to maximize strength for controlling creatures, I would probably go with War Hulk, like I mentioned above. That will require a Large race though-- Half-Ogre at +2 probably. Another option for picking up some extra strength is actually 4 levels of dragon disciple, though you'll need a bit of duskblade or some other spellcasting class to do that.
#8 playswithfire Mar 01, 2009 7:21:33	You're not going to be able to hold the creature still unless you're right next to it-- harpoons only allow you to prevent the creature from moving outside of the range of the rope (30 ft) with a Str check. You're going to significantly impede their movement, but you won't keep the creature still-- and that is only if you succeed on the opposed Str check. Odd thought, probably for a pair of NPCs, a team of two harpoon wielding rogues, maybe rogue/factotums. When they encounter a particularly nasty enemy, they get into flanking positions 30 feet away, harpoon the enemy with both harpoons so he can't move at all (hence factotum so you can use INT instead of strength if you want them to be standard DEX/INT rogues). Then pelt him with thrown daggers and sneak attack until it's dead. Forgive the tangent. I think Balthanon hit the highlights for the harpooner you want.
#9 Balthanon Mar 01, 2009 8:16:02	I'm playing in a sandbox game right now where I run a thieves' guild... that's an intriguing thought for some of my followers. Most of them are only 1st level, so it would have to be something more like the targeteers (maybe thug variant targeteers). I could see that being an interesting variant for tough customers-- two of them pull that stunt and I or one of my cohorts walks up to work them over while they can't run. A little safer for the followers though much bloodier than a typical mugging. I'll have to see if I can't round up a few whalers from the docks for this next level.