My DM has lost his marbles!

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

mltryman

Jun 01, 2009 22:38:01		My dm is starting an Epic campaign and for some reason has lost enough of his marbles to approve an idea i jokingly tossed at him. With said approval i turn to you all, masters of Char Op because i'm completely freaking lost.

I need help stating out the basic forms (human, hybrid, and animal) for a Paragon Legendary Dire Polar Bear.....yes this is gestalt, with one side being the bear the other side being class selection etc. (I told you he lost his marbles!)

Class and whatnot isn't overly important atm as much as the stat mods, what the character would have access to in each form etc.

Basic info:
Male Human
18 STR
16 DEX
16 CON
15 INT
12 WIS
10 CHA

Thanks a heap in advance, and i plan on taking him the Totemist Rager route
(barbarian 1, totemist x, rager x).
#2

Bot4

Jun 01, 2009 22:40:13 		O.o
Armored bear anyone?
#3

dandu

Jun 01, 2009 22:47:18 		You will want these.
#4

user5127

Jun 01, 2009 22:48:39 		what level are you at?

you could be this thing I call Brutus. He's cute. half troll natural lycanthrope paragon insectile minotaur of legend... i forget what other templates I added to hit. haha

FOUND IT!

Paragon-Winged-Natural Werebear (Polar)-Insectile-Half-Troll-Greathorn Minotaur.
(Brutus)

Take a lycanthrope troll and have it mate with a greathorn minotaur. Use magic ritual to give the newborn the winged, insectile, and paragon templates. You now have a Brutus.

Brutus CR27
CE Large Aberration (earth, shape-changer, augmented monstrous humanoid)
Init +11 (An/Hy +1); Senses Darkvision 60ft., Low-light vision, scent, Tremorsense 120ft.; Listen +46, Spot +50
Languages Giant, Undercommon, Common, Terran, Dwarven, Orc

AC 61, touch 50, flat-footed 61 (An: -2 natural, +1 Dex)
(-1 size, +11 Dex, +17 natural, +12 insight, +12 luck)
HP 697 (19HD: 19d8+228+165+152); DR 20/epic, 5/-
Fort +33, Ref +27, Will +33 (An/Hy: Fort +4, Ref +1)

Speed Land 90ft (An 120ft.), Climb 90ft., Fly 90ft., Swim (An 90ft.); Earth Glide
Base Atk +17; Grp +38 (An: +46)
Melee Greathammer +58/+53/+48 (3d6+37/19-20 x4); Gore +58 (2d6+50); 2 Claws +58 (1d6+50); Bite +58 (1d8+50); Rend +58 (2d6+58); (An: 2 claw 1d8, bite 2d6. +8 atk/dmg); (Hy: all at +8 atk/dmg)
Space 10ft. Reach 10ft. (An: Reach 5ft.)
Atk Options Awesome Blow, Power Attack, Great Cleave, Improved Grab
Special Actions Earth Warp
Special Abilities 3/day: Greater Dispelling, Haste, See Invisibility. CL15

Abilities Str 45, Dex 33, Con 41, Int 22, Wis 31, Cha 23 (An/Hy: Str +16, Dex + 2, Con +8)
SQ Natural Cunning, Wide Vision, Fast Healing 20, Fire Resistance 10, Cold Resistance 10, Bear Empathy, Alternate Form
Feats Iron Will, Cleave, Endurance, Run, Track, Awesome Blow, Great Fortitude, Improved Natural Attack (gore), Power Attack, Great Cleave
Skills Intimidate +38, Search +42, Spot +50, Survival +42, Listen +46, Hide +42, Swim +49, Climb +49 (An Hide +1, Swim +8, Climb +8)
Advancement by character class: Favored Class barbarian;
Possesions N/A (to be listed later)

Earth Glide (Ex) Brutus can glide through stone, dirt, or almost any other soft of earth except metal as easily as a fish swims through water. Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other signs of its presence.
Earth Warp (SU) As a swift action, Brutus can cause the earth and rock around it to twist and warp in a 60-foot-radius emanation around it, doubling movement costs through that area. Natural stone, finished stone, and dirt surfaces are subject to this effect. The effect does not move with Brutus; when Brutus leaves the area, the ground returns to normal. Brutus ignores the movement penalties generated by this effect and by effects like this created by other greathorn minotaurs.
Natural Cunning (Ex) Brutus has immunity to maze spells, never becomes lost, and can track enemies. He is never caught Flat-Footed.
Wide Vision (Ex) Because of his multiple eyes and wide angle vision, Brutus has a +4 racial bonus to Spot checks and cannot be flanked.
Skills Brutus gets a +8 racial bonus to climb checks and can take 10 on climb checks. Animal form: +12 to hide checks in snowy areas, also has a +8 racial bonus to swim checks and can take 10 on swim checks.

Brutus is a powerful subterranean creature. Created by a foul interbreeding between a troll that contracted lycanthropy and a greathorn minotaur, and by pervasive magical experiments which have given him wings and an insectoid like appearance. Brutus is a Natural Lycanthrope and is aware of his affliction. Brutus has six overly long arms. He has a mixture of Chitinous plates and very tough hide covering his body. He is an albino and is all white. He has a gold collar around his neck that ensures he stays chaotic evil and under the full control of his master. He is very smart and cunning and will use his surroundings to his advantage. In animal form Brutus appears no different than a normal polar bear (though a little larger).
#5

mltryman

Jun 01, 2009 23:20:58 		ROFL @ Dandu .. that was funny.

User5127: DM is aiming for around 40th-50th range (although he mentioned adjusting it just to see what this crazy idea would play out as)

Bot4: indeed my friend.


I have found some starting points to help out a little...

Paragon Template:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm

Lycanthrope Template: (towards bottom of said page)
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm

Dire Polar Bear:
page 115 of frostburn

Monster of Legend Template:
page 56 of the "Templates.pdf" from http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20
* frightful presence special attack, ... reflective hide and 1 other from
special qualities choices.
#6

muertog

Jun 01, 2009 23:30:24 		Hehe. Since you can't use armoured bear w/out casting issues, I submit you try a melee "tank". Barbarian + Primeval, perhaps? Can you image how HIGH you can get the physical attributes at that point?!?
#7

emy

Jun 01, 2009 23:56:40
O.o
Armored bear anyone?

If you're going the armored bear route, take two levels of Divine Oracle for evasion in heavy armor.
#8

mltryman

Jun 01, 2009 23:57:13 		Totemist doesn't suffer from casting failure i don't think..... although i don't entirely get your armoured bear and casting reference.

On another note, are we talking the primeval in the complete warrior or elsewhere?

Still hoping someone has the time / knowhow to stat this thing properly. Especially so i will know what i have level-wise to work with one the racial HD and such are out of the way (18 base for the bear + 2 LA for lycanthrope i think makes 20, not sure if there's more since paragon doesn't have a static LA although i'm pretty sure my dm will go with that).
#9

muertog

Jun 02, 2009 0:22:41 		Primeval is from Frostburn. It grants a form of "wildshape" that stacks the physical improvements from the altered shape upon the base creature's stats. IE: if the stats are already high, they just get higher.

Amusingly enough, you could pick the dire bear as your shaped form and be a dire bear morphed into a dire bear and get bigger because of it. :P
#10

jgumbyrx

Jun 02, 2009 0:27:32
Amusingly enough, you could pick the dire bear as your shaped form and be a dire bear morphed into a dire bear and get bigger because of it. :P

too bad that the Primevil alternate form is restricted to a dire animal of less than 8 HD (edit: thanx, muertog).

OP's idea would still benifit from the other stat increases, though (still very impressive).
#11

muertog

Jun 02, 2009 0:58:21 		Dangit. Goes to show if I don't crack the book open to verify the info, I blather on about stuff I don't know. :P

"Yo dawg, I heard you like Dire Bears, so we put your Dire Bear in a Dire Bear so you can rage while you rage!"

Edit: HD limit is 8, actually. Let me crack open the MM... Yup, Dire Bears are 12HD, so no go... but there are plenty of other options! Dire Ape is always a fun choice for a raging barbarian with improvised weapons... Grab a tree trunk and go to town!
#12

jgumbyrx

Jun 02, 2009 1:32:08
Dangit. Goes to show if I don't crack the book open to verify the info, I blather on about stuff I don't know. :P

"Yo dawg, I heard you like Dire Bears, so we put your Dire Bear in a Dire Bear so you can rage while you rage!"

Edit: HD limit is 8, actually. Let me crack open the MM... Yup, Dire Bears are 12HD, so no go... but there are plenty of other options! Dire Ape is always a fun choice for a raging barbarian with improvised weapons... Grab a tree trunk and go to town!

dire lion is pretty cool -- pounce + rake = loads-of-fun
#13

dr_rocktopus

Jun 02, 2009 3:06:51 		Dire Lion:
I are can delivers claws and rakes and pounces to invisible sandwich!

or

Dire Ape:
I have opposable thumbs, a climb speed, and murder in my eyes.
I also find that you have a remarkably attractive posterior. Run Now.
#14

Senevri

Jun 02, 2009 5:08:08 		...polar bear primeval(dire lion)? O_o;;;;

I am both terrified and intrigued.

Uh, OP, do you mean you're playing a lycanthrope?
#15

heliomance

Jun 02, 2009 5:56:11 		For the lulz, and because it makes no logical sense, hit up Bear Warrior in CW. The stat adjustments are relative, not absolute. Net upshot? When you rage, you turn from a dire polar bear into a normal brown bear - and get stronger.
#16

user5127

Jun 02, 2009 6:05:44
Totemist doesn't suffer from casting failure i don't think..... although i don't entirely get your armoured bear and casting reference.

On another note, are we talking the primeval in the complete warrior or elsewhere?

Still hoping someone has the time / knowhow to stat this thing properly. Especially so i will know what i have level-wise to work with one the racial HD and such are out of the way (18 base for the bear + 2 LA for lycanthrope i think makes 20, not sure if there's more since paragon doesn't have a static LA although i'm pretty sure my dm will go with that).

iirc the paragon template is +11 LA? I'd recomend asking the epic guys. I never see BlueMage post, but he'd know.

Brutus I think is like ECL 40.

Also, you could make the Dire Bear Titanic I think?
Gargantuan size and 25HD.

The good thing about this idea is you can take monsters with HUGE LA and not worry about the dead HD, since the other side of your gestalt tree with take care of that. So stack +20 dead levels on something hahaha
#17

xakypshalorn

Jun 02, 2009 10:02:25 		If I remember correctly, Paragon is +15 level adjustment. A simple glance at the book should tell you, though at the moment I'm still waking up and really don't want to lol.

(Honestly, for everything it gives, it had better be +15 or so, the rewards are so huge I might actually consider a well built Paragon +5 levels of optimized melee comperable with a level 20 build, and you know that doesn't happen often.)
#18

muertog

Jun 02, 2009 10:36:17
If I remember correctly, Paragon is +15 level adjustment. A simple glance at the book should tell you, though at the moment I'm still waking up and really don't want to lol.

(Honestly, for everything it gives, it had better be +15 or so, the rewards are so huge I might actually consider a well built Paragon +5 levels of optimized melee comperable with a level 20 build, and you know that doesn't happen often.)

Paragon is an adjustable DM-adjucated level adjustment. It depends upon the CR of the base creature. There are some recommendations already written in but I, too, am away from books so can't give exact details.
#19

xakypshalorn

Jun 02, 2009 10:51:14 		Your right, I'm not seeing a level adjustment anywhere in the Paragon Creature Template. And I could have sworn I saw it say +15 somewhere...
#20

muertog

Jun 02, 2009 11:07:25
Your right, I'm not seeing a level adjustment anywhere in the Paragon Creature Template. And I could have sworn I saw it say +15 somewhere...

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1174546

I believe that the template counts higher for the lower CR creatures, ranges from +8 (epic creatures) to +15 (for low level base creatures).
#21

eldritch_lord

Jun 02, 2009 11:29:26
Your right, I'm not seeing a level adjustment anywhere in the Paragon Creature Template. And I could have sworn I saw it say +15 somewhere...

It's not in the template, since ELH was 3.0. Probably in the errata.
#22

mltryman

Jun 02, 2009 12:03:35 		Wow, lots of posts and seems folks are definately intrigued so i will answer as i can:

Yes this is indeed a Lycanthrope (dire polar bear) with the monster of legend and paragon templates.

LA's for the above i believe ate 18 racial HD, +2 la for lycan, and the templates are varied as many have mentioned. Eitherway we're looking at roughly ECL 35-40 on one side of the gestalt with class build on the other.

I don't think Primeval (dire lion) would work with this set up as he'll already be a lycanthrope but i could be wrong. The mental image of said human morphing into this ungodly hybrid form is crazy, not sure how one would add the adjustments and actual mechanics of the primeval shift.

Looking over it again, i'm not sure Barb 1 / Totemist X / Totem Rager X would be best since totemist isn't going to really help him in his hybrid melee form all that much, it would it? I was debating on Psychic Warrior or something instead.

Side Note: I see the whole armoured bear thing mentioned a few times and a reference to 2 levels of Divine Oracle, could someone elaborate please?

*pants* ok i think i've more or less summed up the posts and answered accordingly.
#23

muertog

Jun 02, 2009 12:14:37
Wow, lots of posts and seems folks are definately intrigued so i will answer as i can:

Yes this is indeed a Lycanthrope (dire polar bear) with the monster of legend and paragon templates.

LA's for the above i believe ate 18 racial HD, +2 la for lycan, and the templates are varied as many have mentioned. Eitherway we're looking at roughly ECL 35-40 on one side of the gestalt with class build on the other.

I don't think Primeval (dire lion) would work with this set up as he'll already be a lycanthrope but i could be wrong. The mental image of said human morphing into this ungodly hybrid form is crazy, not sure how one would add the adjustments and actual mechanics of the primeval shift.

Looking over it again, i'm not sure Barb 1 / Totemist X / Totem Rager X would be best since totemist isn't going to really help him in his hybrid melee form all that much, it would it? I was debating on Psychic Warrior or something instead.

Side Note: I see the whole armoured bear thing mentioned a few times and a reference to 2 levels of Divine Oracle, could someone elaborate please?

*pants* ok i think i've more or less summed up the posts and answered accordingly.

Divine Oracle grants access to the Oracle domain power (not so important here), but also grants the ability to "effectively" have evasion in -any- armour (heavy included). Reflex save for none might be amusing to consider for your build...

Armoured Polar Bears are a reference to the Golden Compass series of books (and the horrible movie of the same name).

A Lycanthrope who changes into yet a different type of animal might be amusing... "I thought you were a..." "You thought WRONG!" *Thwack!*
#24

mltryman

Jun 02, 2009 15:42:29 		that is indeed funny Muertog, but i'm not quite getting how the mechanics of that would work in a beneficial way... going from human to hybrid form is obvious, but how would one handle going from said hybrid form into said primeval dire lion form AND not losing the benefits of said hybrid form? Guess i'm just being a blonde today.
#25

heliomance

Jun 02, 2009 17:15:49 		Seriously, hit up Bear Warrior. It does shiny things to your strength and con.

This thread might be of some help.
#26

emy

Jun 02, 2009 18:31:19
Divine Oracle grants access to the Oracle domain power (not so important here), but also grants the ability to "effectively" have evasion in -any- armour (heavy included). Reflex save for none might be amusing to consider for your build...

Armoured Polar Bears are a reference to the Golden Compass series of books (and the horrible movie of the same name).

A Lycanthrope who changes into yet a different type of animal might be amusing... "I thought you were a..." "You thought WRONG!" *Thwack!*

Oh right, tack on a Starmantle Cloak from BoED, too.

(Almost) ignore weapons in any armor. XD
#27

mltryman

Jun 03, 2009 19:52:51 		I love the star mantle cloak thingie, will definately have to pick up one of those. I got bored and statted up the Paragon Monster of Legend Dire Bear that would be referred to as the "base animal" and the "base creature" would be the Human with the lycanthrope template (haven't gotten that far), so here are the stats. I'm not sure if the +20 to melee and ranged rolls applies to grappling or not so i didn't apply it.

Size/Type: Huge Outsider (Augmented Animal, Native)
Hit Dice: 18d8+ 216 + 342 (702 hp)
Initiative: +15
Speed: 150 ft., swim 60 ft.
Armor Class: 60 (-2 size, +11 Dex, +17 natural + 12 insight + 12 luck)
touch 43, flat-footed 49
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+53
Attack: Claw +70 melee (2d6+47)
Full Attack: 2 claws +70 melee (2d6+47) and bite +68 melee (3d8+33)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, Spells, Spell-Like Abilities
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, reflective hide, regrow limbs, scent, fire
and cold resistance 10, Fast healing 20, spell resistance 53
damage reduction 10/epic,
Saves: Fort +40 (11), Ref +32 (11), Will +30 (11)
Abilities: Str 64 / +27, Dex 32 / +11, Con 48 / +19, Int 19 / +4,
Wis 29 / +9, Cha 29 / +9
Skills: Hide +42 (21 + 11 dex + 10)
Listen +40 (21 + 9 wis + 10)
Spot +40 (21 + 9 wis + 10)
Swim +58 (21 + 27 str + 10)
Feats: Alertness, Endurance, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural
Armor, Multiattack, Power Attack, Run, Toughness (2),
Track, Weapon Focus (claw)
Challenge Rating: 28

Spells: Casts spells a s a 20th level Cleric with Protection, Strength, & War Domain spells on its list.

Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day greater dispel magic, haste, and see invisibility as 15th level caster

Reflective Hide: Spell Turning, always on.

Regrow Limbs: The creatures limb or head regrows in 1 round

Natural weapons are treated as epic for overcoming damage reduction