Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thepuregamer Oct 29, 2008 16:32:20	Ok, I am making a mostly amusing character but there is supposed to be some juice behind him. He goes something like this. 1 ninja/4 changeling rogue/4pyrokineticist/10 lasher this is a non-psionics campaign so I won't be needing power points to pyrokineticist. I will be using fire whips from 6th lvl on. The feat tree will go something like: 1 pyro(very loosely interpreted to be +1 damage per die of fire damage you deal) 3- ewp: whip 6- twf 9 imp twf 12 I dunno 15 more I dunno. 18 gtwf Anyway I am taking several possibly incorrect assumptions here but the long and the short of it is I will be attempting to use 2 fire whips and to put weapon aflame on each one. If pyro works as I think it does then for every die of fire damage I do I will also be getting an extra point of fire damage added onto my hits. So by lvl 19 damage should be something like d8 + 2d6(weapon aflame) + 5d6 SA + d6 SS + 2 weapon spec +9 from pyro. The SA and SS are fire damage since they deal damage in the form done by the weapon. By 19th lvl it should be 3 attacks w/o twf and lash of doom 6 attacks w/ twf but not lash of doom and 8 attacks at 10/10/10/10/5/5/0/0 with lash of doom and twf but without anything other than bab factored in. All of these are ranged touch attacks and all of them should be dealing something similar to d8 +8d6 +11 fire damage. Are there any other directions I can go with a build like this?
#2 reis Oct 29, 2008 20:03:59	splashing in swordsage to get desert wind or taking martial study: burning blade or some such would be cool
#3 natenate Oct 30, 2008 1:48:31	You can use any feat that works with a standard Whip with a Fire Lash. That includes Power Attack, which is amazing since you'll be making touch attacks with it. Point-Blank Shot is good to always get +1 attack and damage, and Precise Shot so you don't take a -4 to hit anyone in melee with an ally. Leap Attack is always good with Power Attack. Don't go TWF, wield it two-handed for bigger hits with Power/Leap Attack. Sneak Attack and Sudden Strike aren't very good with a Fire Lash since you can't gain flanking since it's a ranged weapon.
#4 thepuregamer Oct 30, 2008 10:41:49	that is not entirely true about the power attack as power attack only applies to melee attacks and fire whip states that it is a ranged touch attack so I am unsure about applying it there. Also Sneak attacks are not so bad because the 1st lvl of lasher gives the ability to threaten any squares within 5ft of you. Thus I will be able to flank if I need to then. I like the idea of pbs and ps. I will think more about the pa/ leap attack ideas.
#5 reis Oct 30, 2008 15:34:25	might want to pick up UMD ranks in case you come up against stuff that is immune to fire also are you using 2 fire lashes or a fire lash and a regular whip with weapon afire? not sure if fire lash allows you to create 2 whips at once, if it is the case that you can create two, remember that you only get one lash per move equivalent action used thus. finally might want to think about the fact that Fire Lash, Weapon Afire, Bolt of fire, Head Death, and conflagration are psi-like abilities, meaning you can take meta-ish feats for them like Quicken/Empower Psi-like ability. Since these effects don't have a specific power level attached to them you could presumably take these feats at any level. Depending on what your campaign's ruling is regarding these feats this could be quite powerful, with a little extrapolation you could have Searing Psi-like ability(weapon afire) or Chain psi-like ability(heat death) or (yay) Fell Drain/animate Fire Lash
#6 natenate Oct 30, 2008 16:00:15	"A pyro can take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization (if she otherwise meets the prerequisites) in conjunction with the fire lash, as well as any feats that apply to the use of a standard whip." Power Attack and Leap Attack apply to the use of a standard whip, therefore they can be used with a Fire Lash. If someone says it doesn't, ask if that's a houserule they made because it clearly does. Remember that any extra damage you deal such as from Power Attack or Sneak Attack is dealt as the same type as the weapon's base damage, which in this case it would be additional fire damage. That means anything immune to fire damage will be immune to every attack from your Fire Lash. For that reason many people choose to play a Sonokineticist instead, since almost nothing is outright immune to sonic damage. Some may say that the reduced damage dice for sonic also applies to your sneak attack dice, but you're better off with a higher BAB and Power Attack than stacking Sneak Attack anyway. Note that if you attack an opponent threatening you with your Fire Lash you'll provoke an AoO as normal for making a ranged attack, so it's not that great. Also, Weapon Focus: Whip doesn't apply to the Fire Lash, you'd have to take Weapon Focus: Fire Lash separately. Similarly, Lasher class features that only apply to a Whip cannot be used with a Fire Lash, because only feats that apply to a standard whip can also be used with a Fire Lash.
#7 thepuregamer Oct 30, 2008 22:37:57	Well Nate Nate, I am slightly screwed with lasher by your reading of it so I may have to looks that over but also you really need to reread power attack because I will have a slight problem attempting to use power attack. Namely a pyrokineticist makes "ranged touch attacks" with their fire lash and power attack only applies to melee attacks. "You may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls." As I am making ranged touch attacks I simply do not apply any penalty to my attack or a bonus to my damage even if I use the feat. So yeah there is nothing preventing you from using power attack with a fire lash it is just a matter of both the penalty and bonus of power attack not being added to ranged touch attacks. Yup reread the the fire lash ability and it applies only to feats. Too bad, lasher gives close combat shot and 5 ft threat to whip users in addition to a ton of other stuff.
#8 natenate Oct 31, 2008 0:31:45	It doesn't matter that Power Attack says it only adds to melee damage. Fire Lash specifically says that any feats that work with a standard whip, which would include Power Attack, can be used with a Fire Lash as well. Your Power Attack bonus damage applies to the use of a standard whip, therefore it will apply to a Fire Lash despite being a ranged attack.
#9 carnivore Oct 31, 2008 4:19:08	actually notice: from the FAQ: Can you use a whip with two hands, thus gaining 1.5 x Strength bonus? Given that the whip is a one-handed weapon, while it might appear awkward, the rules of the game are clear that this is certainly possible. Can you use the Power Attack feat in combination with a whip? Actually yes, this is also possible, since the whip is listed as a melee weapon. Because the Pyrokineticist’s Fire Lash creates a whip of fire that requires only a touch attack, can you apply a Str bonus to the damage? Can you power attack with this special weapon? It would seem so. The wording in the description of this psi-like ability indicates that you can take advantage of any feat that would apply to the use of a standard whip. Since one of those feats is Power Attack, then by reason, you must be able to apply your Strength bonus to the damage of a fire lash as well. that should help to clarify things :D
#10 thepuregamer Oct 31, 2008 9:32:10	I will bow to an faq. Although I wonder why it says you can add str to damage? Str to damage isn't a feat effect. Are they saying that because it allows use of power attack that is must also allow use of power attacks prerequisites? I wonder if 3.0 material like the lasher is mentioned in any faqs.
#11 muertog Oct 31, 2008 13:36:51	Sneak attack damage is untyped. It has its own limitations (undead, constructs, oozes, plants, other non-crittable targets). Unless, you -want- to make your SA damage subject to -either- non-crit and fire resistance. IE: If the target is non-crittable or has fire resistances (and fire resists is one of the more common types of resistances), you deal far less damage. I am assuming that you are using Fire Whip damage as damage type fire, not slashing... since that opens up yet ANOTHER type of resistable damage. My assumption of "untyped" damage is because sneak attack is not multiplied upon a crit. If it was weapon damage, it should be multiplied. It is considered "extra damage" instead. This falls in the order of other "additional damage" mods, such as shock/flaming as opposed to the wording of Power Attack: "add the same number to all melee damage rolls."
#12 carnivore Oct 31, 2008 13:58:03	notice: Fire Lash (Ps): A pyrokineticist gains the ability to fashion a 15-foot-long whip of fire from unstable ectoplasm as a move-equivalent action. She takes no damage from a fire lash she creates, and if she releases her hold, it immediately dissipates. The lash deals 1d8 points of fire damage to a target within 15 feet on a successful ranged touch attack. A pyro can take Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization (if she otherwise meets the prerequisites) in conjunction with the fire lash, as well as any feats that apply to the use of a standard whip. The whip remains in existence as long as the pyrokineticist holds it. for this character... creatures with Fire Resistance can apply it vs your Fire Lash thus for you Fire Resistance is DR to your Fire Lash you might just take one of the Alternate PrC.... Acetokineticist... same as Pyrokineticist but with Acid Lash and Acid everything else... look here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e :D