Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 grundle Mar 21, 2008 19:50:20	I was looking through ToM, thinking about a build for a new Gestalt campaign I'll be joining soon when I came across Zagan and his Improved Grab ability, which allows you to grapple as though you were Large size. This could be pretty cool on a tiny character. I like the thought of a Pixie or a wyrmling being able to grapple something several times his size, especially if i could figure out a way to pick up my opponent and drop em in some lava. Does anyone know of any way to do this without having to get an astronomical strength score? maybe if i could turn both me and my opponent ethereal? Campaign is Gestalt, starting ECL 10, LA buyoff, any WotC source (including Dungeon/Dragon), probably Binder10 on one side, maybe Totemist on the other? I know there are probably much easier and more effective ways to make grappling characters, but hopefully you can help me optimize within the limitations of the character concept that I have. thanks!
#2 prime361 Mar 21, 2008 21:54:47	why pick up your opponent? after succeeding on a grapple check you can move 1/2 your normal move with your opponent. now you just have to be able to beat your opponent's roll (if you are treated as large does that mean you get the +8 for being a large creature?) The Prime Suspect
#3 sagebahamut Mar 22, 2008 0:14:30	I would imagine that's what "treated as large" means, otherwise it doesn't actually do anything.
#4 grundle Mar 22, 2008 0:58:30	yes the picking up is not absolutely necessary, however, just moving along the ground does limit the options somewhat. For example, i wouldn't be able to use a superior fly speed, i would be limited by terrain, might provoke AoOs, etc. Perhaps i can speak to my DM and ask to trade one of the other abilities of Zagan so that I can be treated as large for the purposes of what I can carry as well... does that strike you as overpowered?
#5 alienfrombeyond Mar 22, 2008 11:37:10	Not particularly, other than how ridiculous it would get carrying equipment 5 times your weight and size. Also, you'll need to get some form of reach, as your size means you have to enter the opponent's space before you can initiate the grapple.
#6 prime361 Mar 22, 2008 13:12:20	I would imagine that's what "treated as large" means, otherwise it doesn't actually do anything. Actually, you can only grapple an opponent up to two sizes larger than you. Being treated as large gives you huge and gargantuan creatures you can grab still, instead of the small medium you would have had. But I would agree that if it only allowed you to grapple with the larger opponents(and not give you the phantom size increase) it would be a handicap. The Prime Suspect
#7 grundle Mar 22, 2008 19:04:38	Not particularly, other than how ridiculous it would get carrying equipment 5 times your weight and size. Also, you'll need to get some form of reach, as your size means you have to enter the opponent's space before you can initiate the grapple. I think the carrying of the equipment would kind of fit the character. He's a little guy, but he flies around carrying this huge sack of stuff. He could even pick up and carry a few of the party members if they held on to each other real tight! :D ah i hadnt thought about the reach issue. any thoughts on how to get reach within the build parameters above? Maybe i need to flip through MoI and ToM to see if there's either a chakra or a vestige that gives natural reach. thanks! edit: also, Large size gives +4 to grapple checks, rather than +8